I used to dream about stuff like this as a kid and seeing it become a reality over the last few years fills me with such joy, all the virtual displays just floating in the air it's so cool I can't wait for the stuff that will be around in five-tens years from now.
After the first consumer pc, nothing came close or just a downgrade variation of it but more portable. VR/AR is the first ever that bring lots more features thay can eventually surpsaased pc and render everything else obsolete. But the lack of application of it makes it still got a very long way to go
@@toututu2993 its been like a month since it came out now.. the fact it already is that well developed, like the user interface and iPad apps that are already available is already a miracle. dont think we will have to wait too long for more stuff to come. the thing i worry about more is that it's not open. that it can only load Apple apps. the computer had so much success bc everyone could make and run a program. no app stores. app stores are nice and it guarantees (to a certain extent) a better user experience but if we want this device to bring the next computing era i hope Apple opens up on that front. i understand having a closed system on the iPhone and early iPads but not here if we want it to be great
or maybe from using your hands in mr! when i first tried my quest 3 and I was playing mr demos/games, when I took the headset off my hands were so expressive and Itd feel that my fingers were alien tentacle-like creatures dunno why buy mr is a really crazy sensation
One silly thing I did with SteamVR was to play Half Life Alyx, and then I wanted to go into the desktop and fix a couple of GPU settings. I accidentally started a "redream" (the Dreamcast emulator), and I realized that I could output the desktop into Half Life Alyx's environment, I picked up a gamepad and started playing Dreamcast within Half Life Alyx. It's such a silly thing, but my mind was blown away by the prospect of this and it did give me a sense of the power of spatial computing. I use a Reverb G2, so the resolution is quite okay. but still. I wish we would come to a point where it doesn't feel like a compromise to put on a headset and be in a virtual environment. where the device is super comfortable, there's no eye strain and little to no loss in clarity.
You're the most honest, skeptical critic of VR out there, and I love that you like the Vision Pro so much! I know there's a lot of Apple haters out there don't want to believe you, but hopefully they can put their biases aside long enough to appreciate that Apple has done here. It's an amazing step in the evolution of XR.
Having floor to ceiling portrait displays for code, documents, option chains, and other things is pretty fantastic. I've used the nReal Air with a Raspberry Pi 400, which is a full computer in a keyboard form factor, and that worked pretty well despite those glass' limitations. I bet something like the Immersed Visor (if it actually manifests anything like they've described) with a Raspberry Pi 400 would be a great combo.
Would be awesome if all the programs/browser windows could have with their own window for the windows machine. With custom gestures to make everything smooth and fast. That alone gets me super excited.
Not ready to invest in this stuff yet but you’ve definitely convinced me that this could be something I’d be interested in in a generation or two! This was really neat!
Loved the video man , i can feel your energy , excitement . Good to see such content on youtube . I bet this video and your channel will blow up in future . U have a sub mate
this is exactly where i want this to go even after your last stream i thought we're still a ways away from actually using an xr headset for this kind of productivity but we seem to be there already?? i'm still gonna wait for competitors to catch up or at least for second hand prices and rooting of the vision pro before i get properly into this, but i can hardly wait for it!
This is what ppl don’t understand. AVP is really competing with things like holo lens 2, and not Quest. That’s where the pricing starts to make sense, it’s an industry level headset NOT a gaming console. Apple is trying to usher in a new way to be productive, and to add a missing dimension to the computing experience, the possibilities there are quite literally limitless.
Immersed has been working on their Vision OS app. Hopefully it comes soon to the AVP. I use it on the Quest 3. I have the paid version and I have 4 virtual screens for my laptop. 2 in vertical orientation, 2 horizontally.
I've been using a multi-screen XR setup on my Quest 3 lately with OVR Toolkit, using Virtual Desktop for passthrough, but it's limited. It's nowhere near as versatile or usable as the AVP, but it's a fraction of the cost! With a bluetooth mouse and keyboard I can set up a work station anywhere in my apartment, and I can even hang out in VRChat while I work. I focus better with other people around, so it's nice to be able to invite a VRC friend over to chat while I'm working!
Can’t wait for apps like Moonlight to support dragging and dropping files. Imagine literally grabbing a game ROM from your PC and dragging it to your steam deck 🤤
Spumoni Conflating! Spatula Convoluting! I know ALVR is a rapidly moving target as it's advancing really quickly on AVP but I'd love to see a video laying out what's going on.
It's really cool but for me I'm broke. I completely understand "spatial computing" more than what Apple was advertising. Thank Bradley. Yeah when they become slimmer I 100% would do exactly what you're doing. I love the power of the device.
I was just exposed to the concept of a 21:10 display, and now I actually need one. I've always loved 16:10, but nothing modern uses it so I've grown to really miss it, however I've also been using a 21:9 ultrawide at work and I've been really liking it. I now so badly need to try a 21:10 display.
I have a similar setup in Oculus 3 atm though I find the oculus and all the apps you can use with it just bearly miss the mark. ImmerseVR -> Great if your next to the pc, weak if you want to hook up a bluetooth device to the headset and work from the couch. Virtual Desktop -> Great for gaming in VR, but you only get 1 desktop. Oculus App -> Multiple Desktops, Connects to Bluetooth, Runs so hot on my pc and makes it chug. Steam VR -> Multiple Desktops, Controller + Bluetooth supported, overlay mods by community, slow and chunky. What I would love is: ImmerseVR but with better bluetooth support and Meta menu to allow me to pin apps to my view natively. Like all the pieces are there, but we are just not quite there yet. I think Apple Vision Pro is neat because it in a hacky kinda way it almost just works that way. but at $3.5k I just can't justify the leap.
Can you copy/paste between all these windows? For me that would be true spatial computing. My guess is that you probably can within Apple's wall garden, but not with that virtual PC display
You can only copy paste between Mac Virtual Display and visionOS apps. If a visionOS app could passthrough pasted data as keyboard inputs, then maybe we could bypass the wall
wow that's sick the cross device/platform screen share "synergy" lmao I remember that back in the day 7:30 I'm imagining being able to sync with something like a robot and seeing all of its cameras/sensors as you pilot it FPV style 7:54 SAO! lmao Asuna!
I really really want Meta to whip the quest 3 into shape for this kind of stuff. EXACTLY what I want is what you showed in this video. Give me a screen of: my phone (or at least samsung dex), my consoles (even if I have to workaround through a capture card), my computer (windows 10) and finally windows for in headset apps. And let me just simply place them any where in space. Paired with a bluetooth set of keyboard, mouse, and controller. Would be fantastic. The day this happens is the day I sell every monitor I have. Maybe even my tv.
Doesn't do everything you want, but the Immersed app will get you Windows 10 + a phone. They're supposedly fixing this, but you have to connect a computer before the phone option appears.
Vision pro weighs 600g Meta Quest 2 seems to be front runner at 503g but the big screen big screen beyond vr comes in at 127g. Honestly I wanted to see this for reference because extended period of use, that weight no doubt matters. That's actually way more significant that I had thought it would be that thing is crazy light. But the technology of spatial computing is pretty neat.
I side loaded MS Remote Desktop on my quest 3 and have multiple desktops running for my different local systems. Hand tracking isn't as accurate as AVP but the controller should be more accurate then any hand tracking but I still find it fiddly compared to a mouse. Running i3 and being fully keyboard reliant on a Linux desktop would be better but alt-tab isn't supported yet. Pass through isn't as good as AVP either but it's useable and is more comfortable to wear out of the box. I guess my point is cheaper hardware can leverage these capabilities, and the ability to sideload alone makes more open hardware an easy argument against AVP. Really nothing is where I want it to be yet. We need more people developing these experiences. We're sooooooo close
We need to get to the point where we can peel off individual windows from virtual screens and have them float standalone, and stick them into another virtual screen if you wannna; generate new virtual screens on the fly etc. To some extent feels like something that might be doable, on the source side, with LInux, at least with X, not sure how rendering individual apps remotely works, if at all, on Wayland. And actually, we need this for all display devices, not just XR headsets; like that real-life Minority Report interface the creator (that actually designed it for the movie) presented on TED ages ago; guy was decades ahead the whole tech industry... edit: If anyone wanna watch the presentation: v=b6YTQJVzwlI "Pointing to the future of UI | John Underkoffler" , starts a little slow; the future tech starts a little before the middle of the video I think
I think spatial computing will be perfect when instead of displays the windows are individually floating which can be resized without affecting other windows, bot for macOS and windows 11
I recently got new glasses and noooow i once again understand why someone would want to do this, because now i can actually see screens from a distance :p
Yes you could. I am using Moonlight visionOS app (testflight). And Sunshine to stream the PC to that app. I already tested this with Linux. It works well
Short-term (thinking of companies doing a copycat of AVP) I'm not so sure whether anything from Apple Vision will be portable to other platforms. Instead of Oculus/PSVR exclusivity we're going to have pooping vs 3rd party pooping vs platform-specific VR vs Lighthouse-based SteamVR. Long-term, I think an Ergotron will work better for programmers rather than having 6 displays, 3 of which are social media, one is a video game console, and one display's gimmick is that you can rotate it...
being able to record this stuff is helpful, and running off of only the headset is amazing tech, but somewhere in between those two facts is the fact that I'm looking away from what you're looking at sometimes and everything goes blurry lmfao first world problem i guess
Not sure that I’ve ever seen your videos before, but it sounds like we’re thinking along the same lines. I haven’t bought a Vision Pro, but from some of the earliest demos it was like “this is the future.” Not needing monitors anymore, having a fully portable computing system as powerful as my current setup… it sounds too good to be true. How’s the latency with that Windows program you’re using? I could see that being a big issue for any games that require precise timing.
Vision Pro the displays are only 3500 pixels in height and that is the entire vertical field of view. So, if you have a 27" 4K monitor on the desk at arm distance, then it is 2160 pixels tall for 30 deg or vertical FoV. In Vision Pro you have to make the window 55 deg high to get the same fidelity. It is like sitting with a 50" TV in front of you. So, good enough to replace 1080p monitors, but not for HiDPI or Retina like image quality. So, for true monitor replacement we need at least 7K in height resolution. But at least now it is usable.
in the future? we've been saying that since first consumer headsets. 8 years later apple enters industry, with pretty much the most expensive consumer headset to date, and they haven't solved any of the weight/comfort issues at all, just crammed more modern components.
Now imagine in the future when people stop limiting themselves to two-dimensional program windows and stuff. Having 3D software, that will be really cool. True 3D.
A hdmi edid is still more compatible and performant than a virtual edid driver. I've tried many with my vfio setup and generally found things to be running slower. What driver are you using? You can still use CRU and EDWriter to set any custom resolution!
I'm learning touch-typing just to do this with my Quest 2 T-T Would you recommend Quest 3 as an upgrade to have a similiar experience as yours with the AVP?...and save 3k :'D Or what would you recommend?
Most painting programs etc allow you to pull off menus and put them somewhere else. Surely there is no need for any display resolution, just pop out a window and resize it, either by physical size or resolution?
The input sources of each virtual window has no knowledge of the properties of the virtual displays in the headset. They can only render to a specified target. There would be no way for a headset like vision pro to automatically communicate with all programs, operating systems and devices, and tell them to adjust their render settings on a frame by frame basis. The Devs of each program ever written would have to add that functionality to their app themselves, and for each headset on the market too.
What virtual display driver / software are you using? Can you create as many displays as you want or just one? (besides the moonlight restrictions). What I really want is this: You drag an individual window to the side of your physical screen. The software then creates a virtual screen and places only this one window onto it. Then it automatically streams it via vision pro / quest 3. From the user perspective this should look like they can just move the mouse and windows in and out of the physical screen into 3D space.
Hey youvtoo want multimonitor moon light. Or the ability to run multiple client and multiple servers per device. Also resolution switching should not be this clunky. Which indirect display driver do you use ? Btw try ffmpeg display streaming. Or gstreamer. It is hard but you can do exotic stuff. Multicast udp your stuff etc. You can use barrier or inputleap for stand alone remote controls. Have you thought of waypipe client ?
Brad, is there any development on widespread application of 3d video? What I mean us like Lumepad 2. Using eye tracking to make EVERY video 3d, based on eye tracking software, but instead of on a Lumepad, viansoftware solution in a headset.
Passthrough mode at this point. Mainly because I've gotten extremely bored of the environments (overuse). And my passthrough view at least feels more dynamic than those
Hey Brad great video! Any idea on how to do this with a usb cable on the quest? I’m struggling a bit because my computer is behind an enterprise vpn -.-
Could that program you are using to create the virtual monitor be used to bolster SteamVR Theatre Mode by having the game on a virtual monitor at your HMD's refresh rate instead of being limited to the refresh rate of your actual monitor?
Using a totally "revolutionary" device to do the same kinds of things we've been doing for 70+ years (mouse + keebs) and yet we're calling it "spatial computing" because we don't need additional monitors for different use cases? They all should've waited until game changing software was able to take full advantage of the VR capabilities like some 3D/4D problem visualization and solving, but instead, we get the same 5 websites and software we've been using for the last 10 years...
The idea makes sense only in extremely light form factor, with ability to display full 4k virtual monitor in regular sized window; so probably the resolution need to quadruple and weight and size 8-fold reduced. this is stuff for weebs, which he absolutetly is. he is so nuts he sold his monitor after 1 day of using it. it doesn't even make any sense and yet he is seemed as guru in vr communities xD
How quickly do you think headset weight reduction is going to happen? For example, do you think Apple can release a standalone headset for under 300 grams within 10 years?
yeah, powered by Apple Backpack. they haven't been able to achieve anything substantial with their $3500+ price point when it comes to weight/size/comfort.
Compute power is a moving target when it comes to standalone, so that’ll continue to be a limitation for a while I think, though I’m sure in some years the floor will be high enough for that to lessen as well, the same way that flatscreen 1080p is so cheap to run now. IIRC, emissive displays like micro oled are already pretty compact and thin, though I’m not sure of weight. Optics definitely also have room to improve, holographics or other fancy high tech tricks that aren’t heavy glass. And also, battery tech. TLDR, I have no idea lol
Discord light mode cringe. But I do think there's a market for "bring your own darn display" version of devices. Do laptops need to have the screen permanently attached? Some people buy them glued to their desk...
I wish apple fully embraced this and worked with Microsoft for fully connecting to windows machine. Probably will never happen though since they want you to buy Macs but there would be alot of incentive for MS to do it.
The low fov bothers me. I don't know what I would prefer. The quest 2 was too claustrophobic for me. The quest 3 is just bearable. When will get a highish fov hi res oled headset.
So, the the old and busted way to do it is to stare at a bunch of different screens The new hotness is to stare at a bunch of screens, with eye strain? I really don’t understand
eye strain is the least of issues. it's a giant brick that doesn't even have proper headstrap available lol. just look at how he is using all of it. twitter here, discord there, youtube video playing up there that he maybe looks at for 4 seconds. it's all gimmick, and he isn't doing anything productive. after all, he is nothing more but a consumer who hates real life.
You need more windows opened at the same time. I still like 16:10 aspect ratio I would not choose to do 21:10 just because not every app or game would play nice with it. You still end up with a lot of empty space unless you use everything in various windows sizes. You don't need that though with spatial computing. Besides I want the HMD running at 120hz or higher. I don't find 90hz to be acceptable with my 4k monitor does 120hz TODAY. In truth it can do 144Hz, but at that refresh rate my 4090 can't always keep up while gaming in 4k.. I'm glad you are doing video more frequently even if it's on another channel. I hope you can get that thing paid off quickly. I wouldn't pay the base price for that HMD for a monitor let alone what you had to pay for the high end... Yet I would for a computer, but not a monitor. 🤣
Vision Pro has WiFi6, not E. An this means you can't stream large amount of displays or huge display. Hope LG/Samsung/Sony/whoever can release a PC compatible device. And most importantly, the next step will be remove the concept of desktop/screen at all. All you need are windows(not the MS), why not just stream those...
With a video like this showing people how powerful VR/AR is really a huge thing. It packs with endless of features and potential that it already surpassed desktop pc in almost everywhere and it makes almost anything before it obsolete already. It just marketed so badly that a lot of people still have no clue of such device. This is the best tech in current century and it will be hard to come up with something better
yo... for the entire length of the video I didn't even consider that the lava lamp was not real...
I used to dream about stuff like this as a kid and seeing it become a reality over the last few years fills me with such joy, all the virtual displays just floating in the air it's so cool I can't wait for the stuff that will be around in five-tens years from now.
After the first consumer pc, nothing came close or just a downgrade variation of it but more portable. VR/AR is the first ever that bring lots more features thay can eventually surpsaased pc and render everything else obsolete. But the lack of application of it makes it still got a very long way to go
@@toututu2993 its been like a month since it came out now.. the fact it already is that well developed, like the user interface and iPad apps that are already available is already a miracle. dont think we will have to wait too long for more stuff to come.
the thing i worry about more is that it's not open. that it can only load Apple apps. the computer had so much success bc everyone could make and run a program. no app stores. app stores are nice and it guarantees (to a certain extent) a better user experience but if we want this device to bring the next computing era i hope Apple opens up on that front. i understand having a closed system on the iPhone and early iPads but not here if we want it to be great
@@toututu2993 "downgraded variations" 💀
That’s actually super cool, most people have no idea you can mirror more devices than just a single Mac!
It’s just one Mac with multiple screens
@@xnyte Did you even watch the video?
I love how you can tell that he has spent a decent amount of time in VRChat just by his hand movement.
or maybe from using your hands in mr!
when i first tried my quest 3 and I was playing mr demos/games, when I took the headset off my hands were so expressive and Itd feel that my fingers were alien tentacle-like creatures
dunno why buy mr is a really crazy sensation
You are starting to make me want the Apple Vision Pro Facial computer.
“Facial Computing” 🤣
@@doompod I have a whole video on it!
@@doompod Facial Computing is a good way to short circuit your Hardware. 😁
spatial compooping
It should be facial computing
😂
@@CorporateZombi facial compooping
One silly thing I did with SteamVR was to play Half Life Alyx, and then I wanted to go into the desktop and fix a couple of GPU settings. I accidentally started a "redream" (the Dreamcast emulator), and I realized that I could output the desktop into Half Life Alyx's environment, I picked up a gamepad and started playing Dreamcast within Half Life Alyx. It's such a silly thing, but my mind was blown away by the prospect of this and it did give me a sense of the power of spatial computing. I use a Reverb G2, so the resolution is quite okay. but still. I wish we would come to a point where it doesn't feel like a compromise to put on a headset and be in a virtual environment. where the device is super comfortable, there's no eye strain and little to no loss in clarity.
I really appreciate you sharing your perspective. It makes me excited for what is possible and appreciate this tech even more..
You're the most honest, skeptical critic of VR out there, and I love that you like the Vision Pro so much! I know there's a lot of Apple haters out there don't want to believe you, but hopefully they can put their biases aside long enough to appreciate that Apple has done here. It's an amazing step in the evolution of XR.
Having floor to ceiling portrait displays for code, documents, option chains, and other things is pretty fantastic. I've used the nReal Air with a Raspberry Pi 400, which is a full computer in a keyboard form factor, and that worked pretty well despite those glass' limitations. I bet something like the Immersed Visor (if it actually manifests anything like they've described) with a Raspberry Pi 400 would be a great combo.
Hell yeah man! If you can make a tutorial for how to set up ALVR that would be dope
Would be awesome if all the programs/browser windows could have with their own window for the windows machine. With custom gestures to make everything smooth and fast. That alone gets me super excited.
I think you can do this with HoloLens. But we didn’t have the ability to do this withMac’s
Not ready to invest in this stuff yet but you’ve definitely convinced me that this could be something I’d be interested in in a generation or two! This was really neat!
Loved the video man , i can feel your energy , excitement . Good to see such content on youtube . I bet this video and your channel will blow up in future . U have a sub mate
this is exactly where i want this to go
even after your last stream i thought we're still a ways away from actually using an xr headset for this kind of productivity but we seem to be there already??
i'm still gonna wait for competitors to catch up or at least for second hand prices and rooting of the vision pro before i get properly into this, but i can hardly wait for it!
Avp is incredible
This is what ppl don’t understand. AVP is really competing with things like holo lens 2, and not Quest. That’s where the pricing starts to make sense, it’s an industry level headset NOT a gaming console. Apple is trying to usher in a new way to be productive, and to add a missing dimension to the computing experience, the possibilities there are quite literally limitless.
Yep exactly think people didnt get that memo though....
yep. Its odd people think Apple cares for gaming. They never have. Mac has always been a productivity focused platform.
Immersed has been working on their Vision OS app. Hopefully it comes soon to the AVP. I use it on the Quest 3. I have the paid version and I have 4 virtual screens for my laptop. 2 in vertical orientation, 2 horizontally.
this is exactly what i was begging for from vr when the quest 1 came out
I've been using a multi-screen XR setup on my Quest 3 lately with OVR Toolkit, using Virtual Desktop for passthrough, but it's limited. It's nowhere near as versatile or usable as the AVP, but it's a fraction of the cost!
With a bluetooth mouse and keyboard I can set up a work station anywhere in my apartment, and I can even hang out in VRChat while I work. I focus better with other people around, so it's nice to be able to invite a VRC friend over to chat while I'm working!
I just tried the vision pro yesterday, it is hands down the best, most advanced device I've ever used.
Can’t wait for apps like Moonlight to support dragging and dropping files. Imagine literally grabbing a game ROM from your PC and dragging it to your steam deck 🤤
hey man just stumbled onto your channel today and just wanted to say I love your videos!
Spumoni Conflating! Spatula Convoluting! I know ALVR is a rapidly moving target as it's advancing really quickly on AVP but I'd love to see a video laying out what's going on.
Very soon for that video. Waiting on only ONE more update to be pulled into the main branch.
It's really cool but for me I'm broke. I completely understand "spatial computing" more than what Apple was advertising. Thank Bradley. Yeah when they become slimmer I 100% would do exactly what you're doing. I love the power of the device.
This is the coolest demo of what the AVP is capable of right now!
ive been using my quest 3 to run my computer, its amazing, the future is gonna be amazing
I was just exposed to the concept of a 21:10 display, and now I actually need one.
I've always loved 16:10, but nothing modern uses it so I've grown to really miss it, however I've also been using a 21:9 ultrawide at work and I've been really liking it.
I now so badly need to try a 21:10 display.
I have a similar setup in Oculus 3 atm though I find the oculus and all the apps you can use with it just bearly miss the mark.
ImmerseVR -> Great if your next to the pc, weak if you want to hook up a bluetooth device to the headset and work from the couch.
Virtual Desktop -> Great for gaming in VR, but you only get 1 desktop.
Oculus App -> Multiple Desktops, Connects to Bluetooth, Runs so hot on my pc and makes it chug.
Steam VR -> Multiple Desktops, Controller + Bluetooth supported, overlay mods by community, slow and chunky.
What I would love is:
ImmerseVR but with better bluetooth support and Meta menu to allow me to pin apps to my view natively.
Like all the pieces are there, but we are just not quite there yet. I think Apple Vision Pro is neat because it in a hacky kinda way it almost just works that way. but at $3.5k I just can't justify the leap.
We’re missing you Brad!
Can you copy/paste between all these windows? For me that would be true spatial computing. My guess is that you probably can within Apple's wall garden, but not with that virtual PC display
You can only copy paste between Mac Virtual Display and visionOS apps. If a visionOS app could passthrough pasted data as keyboard inputs, then maybe we could bypass the wall
wow that's sick the cross device/platform screen share "synergy" lmao I remember that back in the day
7:30 I'm imagining being able to sync with something like a robot and seeing all of its cameras/sensors as you pilot it FPV style
7:54 SAO! lmao Asuna!
I really really want Meta to whip the quest 3 into shape for this kind of stuff. EXACTLY what I want is what you showed in this video.
Give me a screen of:
my phone (or at least samsung dex),
my consoles (even if I have to workaround through a capture card),
my computer (windows 10)
and finally windows for in headset apps.
And let me just simply place them any where in space.
Paired with a bluetooth set of keyboard, mouse, and controller.
Would be fantastic.
The day this happens is the day I sell every monitor I have. Maybe even my tv.
Doesn't do everything you want, but the Immersed app will get you Windows 10 + a phone. They're supposedly fixing this, but you have to connect a computer before the phone option appears.
I'm Brad too!🤓😎 This looks awesome!
Vision pro weighs 600g Meta Quest 2 seems to be front runner at 503g but the big screen big screen beyond vr comes in at 127g. Honestly I wanted to see this for reference because extended period of use, that weight no doubt matters. That's actually way more significant that I had thought it would be that thing is crazy light. But the technology of spatial computing is pretty neat.
I side loaded MS Remote Desktop on my quest 3 and have multiple desktops running for my different local systems. Hand tracking isn't as accurate as AVP but the controller should be more accurate then any hand tracking but I still find it fiddly compared to a mouse. Running i3 and being fully keyboard reliant on a Linux desktop would be better but alt-tab isn't supported yet. Pass through isn't as good as AVP either but it's useable and is more comfortable to wear out of the box. I guess my point is cheaper hardware can leverage these capabilities, and the ability to sideload alone makes more open hardware an easy argument against AVP. Really nothing is where I want it to be yet. We need more people developing these experiences. We're sooooooo close
We need to get to the point where we can peel off individual windows from virtual screens and have them float standalone, and stick them into another virtual screen if you wannna; generate new virtual screens on the fly etc. To some extent feels like something that might be doable, on the source side, with LInux, at least with X, not sure how rendering individual apps remotely works, if at all, on Wayland. And actually, we need this for all display devices, not just XR headsets; like that real-life Minority Report interface the creator (that actually designed it for the movie) presented on TED ages ago; guy was decades ahead the whole tech industry...
edit: If anyone wanna watch the presentation: v=b6YTQJVzwlI "Pointing to the future of UI | John Underkoffler" , starts a little slow; the future tech starts a little before the middle of the video I think
Spatial compooping
I’ve been waiting for your full 1 month AVP review. I hope the Apple haters didn’t win and scare you away from an honest review.
Hope things have been okay
I think spatial computing will be perfect when instead of displays the windows are individually floating which can be resized without affecting other windows, bot for macOS and windows 11
I recently got new glasses and noooow i once again understand why someone would want to do this, because now i can actually see screens from a distance :p
If Steam and the streaming PC were native apps, I might have kept my Vision Pro. More of this 👍👍👍🎉
i completely agree floating windows, one per app, projected from some beefy computer somewhere in the house, is the way to go!
cool vid.
thanks.
btw, is this possible on quest3 (passthrough) today? couldn’t find much about it!
What app are you using to connect to the windows PC? Is this able to be done to connect to a GNU/Linux desktop?
Yes you could. I am using Moonlight visionOS app (testflight). And Sunshine to stream the PC to that app. I already tested this with Linux. It works well
How did you connect your Vision Pro to your pc do you have a video on this 😮
He used an app called moonlight.
Short-term (thinking of companies doing a copycat of AVP) I'm not so sure whether anything from Apple Vision will be portable to other platforms. Instead of Oculus/PSVR exclusivity we're going to have pooping vs 3rd party pooping vs platform-specific VR vs Lighthouse-based SteamVR.
Long-term, I think an Ergotron will work better for programmers rather than having 6 displays, 3 of which are social media, one is a video game console, and one display's gimmick is that you can rotate it...
being able to record this stuff is helpful, and running off of only the headset is amazing tech, but somewhere in between those two facts is the fact that I'm looking away from what you're looking at sometimes and everything goes blurry lmfao
first world problem i guess
When a headset is affordable, comfortable and can truly replace devices (like the AVP), that's when the tech really takes off.
Not sure that I’ve ever seen your videos before, but it sounds like we’re thinking along the same lines. I haven’t bought a Vision Pro, but from some of the earliest demos it was like “this is the future.” Not needing monitors anymore, having a fully portable computing system as powerful as my current setup… it sounds too good to be true.
How’s the latency with that Windows program you’re using? I could see that being a big issue for any games that require precise timing.
Vision Pro the displays are only 3500 pixels in height and that is the entire vertical field of view. So, if you have a 27" 4K monitor on the desk at arm distance, then it is 2160 pixels tall for 30 deg or vertical FoV. In Vision Pro you have to make the window 55 deg high to get the same fidelity. It is like sitting with a 50" TV in front of you. So, good enough to replace 1080p monitors, but not for HiDPI or Retina like image quality. So, for true monitor replacement we need at least 7K in height resolution. But at least now it is usable.
I agree it is what draws me to vr as well. the reason I got a quest 3
In the future, this will be good with a flip down visor, no light seal, and as you say, smaller, lighter, cheaper.
in the future? we've been saying that since first consumer headsets.
8 years later apple enters industry, with pretty much the most expensive consumer headset to date, and they haven't solved any of the weight/comfort issues at all, just crammed more modern components.
Now imagine in the future when people stop limiting themselves to two-dimensional program windows and stuff. Having 3D software, that will be really cool. True 3D.
Very good prospects for the next generations of devices.
A hdmi edid is still more compatible and performant than a virtual edid driver. I've tried many with my vfio setup and generally found things to be running slower. What driver are you using?
You can still use CRU and EDWriter to set any custom resolution!
I'm learning touch-typing just to do this with my Quest 2 T-T
Would you recommend Quest 3 as an upgrade to have a similiar experience as yours with the AVP?...and save 3k :'D Or what would you recommend?
Most painting programs etc allow you to pull off menus and put them somewhere else. Surely there is no need for any display resolution, just pop out a window and resize it, either by physical size or resolution?
The input sources of each virtual window has no knowledge of the properties of the virtual displays in the headset. They can only render to a specified target.
There would be no way for a headset like vision pro to automatically communicate with all programs, operating systems and devices, and tell them to adjust their render settings on a frame by frame basis. The Devs of each program ever written would have to add that functionality to their app themselves, and for each headset on the market too.
Can Steam Deck, Xbox, PS5, and Nintendo run simultaneously on your Vision Pro?
white discord background? your a monster
what're your moonlight settings? how do you get it like that
What virtual display driver / software are you using? Can you create as many displays as you want or just one? (besides the moonlight restrictions).
What I really want is this: You drag an individual window to the side of your physical screen. The software then creates a virtual screen and places only this one window onto it. Then it automatically streams it via vision pro / quest 3.
From the user perspective this should look like they can just move the mouse and windows in and out of the physical screen into 3D space.
Thanks to everyone who sacrificed their cash or credit line to buy this beta test product. Just like with the Quest, I'll buy in once it's matured.
Hey youvtoo want multimonitor moon light. Or the ability to run multiple client and multiple servers per device. Also resolution switching should not be this clunky.
Which indirect display driver do you use ? Btw try ffmpeg display streaming. Or gstreamer. It is hard but you can do exotic stuff. Multicast udp your stuff etc. You can use barrier or inputleap for stand alone remote controls.
Have you thought of waypipe client ?
Are you using sunshine on the deck to stream it? Or steam link?
Brad, is there any development on widespread application of 3d video? What I mean us like Lumepad 2. Using eye tracking to make EVERY video 3d, based on eye tracking software, but instead of on a Lumepad, viansoftware solution in a headset.
I love the new channel name 😊
Do you spend more time in Passthrough-Mode or in Scene-Mode?
Passthrough mode at this point. Mainly because I've gotten extremely bored of the environments (overuse). And my passthrough view at least feels more dynamic than those
What are you using on the pc side? Would be great to get a walkthrough, the PC is still the problem child for headless
Hi brad.
Hey Brad great video! Any idea on how to do this with a usb cable on the quest? I’m struggling a bit because my computer is behind an enterprise vpn -.-
I remember people laughing Microsoft out the door for basically this exact idea.
SP Facial Computing.. got to love auto captions
Could that program you are using to create the virtual monitor be used to bolster SteamVR Theatre Mode by having the game on a virtual monitor at your HMD's refresh rate instead of being limited to the refresh rate of your actual monitor?
Using a totally "revolutionary" device to do the same kinds of things we've been doing for 70+ years (mouse + keebs) and yet we're calling it "spatial computing" because we don't need additional monitors for different use cases?
They all should've waited until game changing software was able to take full advantage of the VR capabilities like some 3D/4D problem visualization and solving, but instead, we get the same 5 websites and software we've been using for the last 10 years...
The idea makes sense only in extremely light form factor, with ability to display full 4k virtual monitor in regular sized window; so probably the resolution need to quadruple and weight and size 8-fold reduced.
this is stuff for weebs, which he absolutetly is. he is so nuts he sold his monitor after 1 day of using it. it doesn't even make any sense and yet he is seemed as guru in vr communities xD
How quickly do you think headset weight reduction is going to happen? For example, do you think Apple can release a standalone headset for under 300 grams within 10 years?
yeah, powered by Apple Backpack.
they haven't been able to achieve anything substantial with their $3500+ price point when it comes to weight/size/comfort.
Compute power is a moving target when it comes to standalone, so that’ll continue to be a limitation for a while I think, though I’m sure in some years the floor will be high enough for that to lessen as well, the same way that flatscreen 1080p is so cheap to run now. IIRC, emissive displays like micro oled are already pretty compact and thin, though I’m not sure of weight. Optics definitely also have room to improve, holographics or other fancy high tech tricks that aren’t heavy glass. And also, battery tech. TLDR, I have no idea lol
Ooh, so I can mirror my PC to vision pro? I had no idea. And can I check, you're not doing it through the mac? Is it going straight to the Visio Pro?
Ya. Straight to the PC using Moonlight/Sunshine
@@GladlyItsBradley Cool. Haven't heard of that. I'll take a look.
Discord light mode cringe.
But I do think there's a market for "bring your own darn display" version of devices. Do laptops need to have the screen permanently attached? Some people buy them glued to their desk...
Let the headless market BOOOOOM baby
Light mode jumpscare 😩
I wish apple fully embraced this and worked with Microsoft for fully connecting to windows machine. Probably will never happen though since they want you to buy Macs but there would be alot of incentive for MS to do it.
Hi Glad, I'm Brad
I have a quest and stuff but how can One focus with so many screen with different subjects? makes no sense.
TY!!
I ditched my monitors too. Got to get ahead of the curve.
What is the virtual driver you are using?
Doesn't want to spend money on monitors, buys a $4000 VR headset to replaces those monitors xD
Wait, this is NOT capable of VR gaming???
Bruh that delayed masking is triggering me so bad.
how is the latency on the windows screen? is it as good as on the mac?
Love the Mashiro
The low fov bothers me. I don't know what I would prefer. The quest 2 was too claustrophobic for me. The quest 3 is just bearable. When will get a highish fov hi res oled headset.
You waved goodbye in the wrong direction.
So, the the old and busted way to do it is to stare at a bunch of different screens
The new hotness is to stare at a bunch of screens, with eye strain?
I really don’t understand
eye strain is the least of issues. it's a giant brick that doesn't even have proper headstrap available lol.
just look at how he is using all of it. twitter here, discord there, youtube video playing up there that he maybe looks at for 4 seconds.
it's all gimmick, and he isn't doing anything productive. after all, he is nothing more but a consumer who hates real life.
Can you do that with quest?
You need more windows opened at the same time. I still like 16:10 aspect ratio I would not choose to do 21:10 just because not every app or game would play nice with it. You still end up with a lot of empty space unless you use everything in various windows sizes. You don't need that though with spatial computing. Besides I want the HMD running at 120hz or higher. I don't find 90hz to be acceptable with my 4k monitor does 120hz TODAY. In truth it can do 144Hz, but at that refresh rate my 4090 can't always keep up while gaming in 4k.. I'm glad you are doing video more frequently even if it's on another channel. I hope you can get that thing paid off quickly. I wouldn't pay the base price for that HMD for a monitor let alone what you had to pay for the high end... Yet I would for a computer, but not a monitor. 🤣
Those are not time stamps!!!
Vision Pro has WiFi6, not E. An this means you can't stream large amount of displays or huge display.
Hope LG/Samsung/Sony/whoever can release a PC compatible device.
And most importantly, the next step will be remove the concept of desktop/screen at all. All you need are windows(not the MS), why not just stream those...
0:06 "Spatial Compooping"
With a video like this showing people how powerful VR/AR is really a huge thing. It packs with endless of features and potential that it already surpassed desktop pc in almost everywhere and it makes almost anything before it obsolete already.
It just marketed so badly that a lot of people still have no clue of such device.
This is the best tech in current century and it will be hard to come up with something better
Virtual Keyboard projected on legs ?
Can we agree on the term Facial computing