I just save zip for a quick heal and come back kill attempt early on or if I get pushed out I get a quick reset button. Wasting it off start of game is questionable.
@@feinky8489 depends on the char... mcginnis start on turrets the extra time to place turrets is kinda important.... same with talon if you start traps
At various moments, you start taking fire, turn your back, and don’t shoot back; you just die while running. You can use the dash and turn around to keep shooting the enemy, even if you die. It’s better to deal damage and help your team than to die without dealing any damage. , Thanks for this video help me alot.
Useful information, but I'm curious as to why you didn't use any of the static shops, or the remaining lane shops for your purchases, instead of backing all the way to base?
i get the big picture is the concepts but man this lane is not a good example of how it plays out, the wraith had no idea how to trade, deny creeps, or secure them. i guarantee the wraith has less than 10 games played.
A lot of good tips and also room for improvement. You ran past the buff a few times. Also you went back to base to buy items whilest a shop in mid was closer. Still a good video :)
yall gotta remember all these streamers are bullying people in their lane because they JUST GOT THE GAME. Streamers got 100+ hours already. I guarantee the dude he made quit had less than 5 matches played like good for you dude.
mmr goes per lane, so if you are getting rolled then you're either having a bad game or you got a counter, either way tho you aren't getting rolled by someone wayyy above your skill lvl
It's good that you're making content for the game, but as you are new to the moba genre, understanding how laning works is important, in this game it is important to constantly micro rotate from lane to camps, deny enemy spirits and claim your own. Outerlanes need deliver urns, with support of midlanes through their crossing. Exact timings are important to learn. Zip lines are on 3 minute timers, using them to get to lane first is irrelevant, as you'll get to your lane at the same time as your enemy, zipline boost should only be used when needing to back to heal and come back and or to defend a tower. Early game it is important to learn meele and parry mechanics, it will contribute to a large portion of your early game burst, parry someone on your lane, punch them and it should result in a kill. I think making a guide with little knowledge of the genre is not a good idea. I am willing to give you a deep dive on the importance of moba's explain how to counter builds and characters. And how to build characters as well.
I’m not understanding the parry tip, you can only parry melee attacks right? Why would the enemy melee you if it directly could lead to a stun (unless they’re out of ammo and trying to confirm a kill on you).
@@fluentgamer8611 melee attacks; charged or light, are really good for follow up or entry damage. If you parry someone it stuns them for 2 seconds and allows you to do double melee damage in return. A lot of the time people will try to melee together, the parry is really a life saver more than anything.
The thing that's been thrown me off about laning is how aggressive you can be. In other MOBAs I've played you're better off trying to let enemy creeps wander towards your own tower, but here, it seems like whoever pushes to their tower first and antagonizes constantly kinda just wins.
That's really not the case at all. In both League of Legends and Dota 2 if you just concede pressure and let the enemy constantly crash waves into your turret, if they're any good they can easily set up a freeze on the bounce back and deny you multiple waves in front of your face.
@@ougonce I agree with that, but deadlock seems to be so much more punishing. Not only can you get poked much harder with the limited tower space but enemy can much more easily deny your creeps with you having to dodge their poke as well. Freezing in league is only applicable when your champion is fundamentally stronger whether it be by a lead or champion abilities (especially so in the early game where there isn't a lead established yet), otherwise shoving is pretty easy. It is also noted that there is practically no punishment to hard shoving everytime in the early game of deadlock unlike with junglers in league.
Yeah I kinda feel this too, like the meta is just kill the heal creep and outpush because you get free dmg when they're trying to last hit. In dota it's a lot easier to punish people because towers are a lot scarier. I think it's mostly just how easy it is to dive in this game that allows advantage to be to the aggressive players.
one think ive noticed to many people do is. theyll be winning CS. but try and go for a kill. have unsecured souls. and when you kill them bam you just instantly are in the lead now for the rest of it. because they get to greedy. having a lead means nothing if you dont have the items to back it up
well - if starting with one of the biggest clips by default doesn't intimate to you that MAYBE shes a decent DPS gun build I dunno what will... you just havnt been wrecked by a titanic magazine, active reload, ricochet + long range Mcginnis yet... you keep playing - itll happen eventually.... rare build but it wrecks. SHREDS objectives... with a wraith on the team for full auto its not a joke.
There's no REAL support, in the sense of a MOBA, they're all meant to be great damage dealers, but Viscous, Dynamo, McGinnis, Ivy and Kelvin have great support capability. My personal (noob) experience is: - from most CONSISTENT healing to least: Kelvin > McGinnis > Dynamo > Ivy > Viscous - from highest healing POTENTIAL to lowest: Ivy > Dynamo > McGinnis > Kelvin > Viscous Viscous is my favorite, as he can put allies into stasis and send them flying to safety while in stasis, which is simultaneously super helpful and hilarious to watch, but it's not the easiest to pull off. He's mostly meant to be a nuisance to the enemy team and not meant to be a healer, although this stasis thing does heal. Dynamo is pretty straightforward, but his warp, unlike what was shown in this video, has INSANE damage and debuff negation potential. For example, if Infernus starts his ult to stun your entire team, you can temporarily warp everyone in your team (you'll probably miss one or two) to prevent the damage and stun. Throughout this video he could've also escaped Vindicta's binding spike multiple times, but alas. McGinnis is often overlooked as a healer support and is often played as a split pusher, but her heal after max is just crazy good. I honestly think her wall is OP in laning and team fights, you can't jump over it with double jump and it lasts for ages Ivy is also a great support but she requires or teammate to be coordinated with you, most randoms I play with completely disregard when I bind with them, which is when they're supposed to be aggressive. You can get insane heals if you and your ally have good aim. With that said, Ivy is a crazy aggressive gun damage dealer Kevin is, in my opinion, the closest thing to a "true" support. He slows everyone down, he can speed up his team, he can trap enemies while healing allies within, and he has an aoe insta heal later on. His "front line-ish" tendency also makes him perfect to burst heal on (an item that heals around you) but also rescue beam allowing you to pull the "true" front liners away from danger if they need to, or simply heal them.
Man you took footage from match where your opponent doesn't even try neither to contest lasthits not to hit you for that. Like, how to win EVEN lanes, maybe? Or even lanes where your opponent just simply better aiming?
You use zero the Jungle. Bad rotations and roaming. You should always look for the creeps while landing and roaming. For example when u first killed her you pushed the tower with inefficient tower dmg without you items. You should take her creep camp next to the tower instead. Then take tower. After that Take your creep camp. Then you could roam
after taking the camps you'd need to go back to heal up, and by the time you're trying to roam, Wraith is on your tower. Not saying that's not the way to go, but there's something missing from that strategy
Would have been a much better video if you played against someone good. She dived into your minions to chase you suoer early, missed a ton of cs and didnt try to deny, you're playing against someone whos only played a few games.
That’s Calico! She’s unreleased, but you can play her in the sandbox mode by using the dev console. She seems to be a more melee/stealth focused hero who can use ghost cats and stuff. You can actually play a bunch of unreleased/unused heroes, though a bunch of don’t have animations and are from an earlier development version, back when the game was Neon Prime and had a cyberpunk setting.
Some good general tips in there but also this seems to be very low Elo this wraith didn't know what she was doing at all. Winning a lane like this is a given really. Also using up your zipline speedboost at the start of the game is a save way to lose your lane if you come up against someone oppressive. I'd like to see you do the same thing vs an oppressive player or even a Mo and Krill/ Abrahms player who knows what he is doing. Also eventhough you had a huge lead at the start you didn't really end up pushing your advantage since at 10minutes you had 5k souls and wraith also caught up to 5k and your ganks didn't translate into your other lanes winning either since your team was down 3 towers vs their 2 towers plus 3 enemy players were at 7 and 8k while your team only had one player at 8k. Purple lane was unattended the whole time and you could probably easily have applied more pressure and tried to take the walker which would at least have forced wraith to stay purple lane getting further behind in farm and not being able to gank herself which was quite successful for her getting her back into the game and did nothing for you really. Also the lane next to you was a solo lane so the possibility of you getting ganked while going for their walker was also rather low and if they would have ziplined over to you they would have to give up either the yellow or orange lane to do so which would have given your team a pretty big advantage to win the fights there as well. Not to mention that getting that additional flex slot would have helped your team get an early advantage and all the souls that were lost on purple lane having noone there to farm them.
bro does the game tell you any of this. I was wondering why I was getting so boned in lanes sometimes. I didn't even know you were suppose to shoot the little souls that pop out! I thought I was doing good just by getting last hits or denying kills.
This video really helps show why they need to change the way laning phase works. Not only is she losing souls from you stealing, but shes also losing souls because she is just unable to last hit due to how much pressure you have the whole time which snowballs extremely hard. They need to at LEAST always give the on-death souls when a nearby enemy minion dies to help slow the snowball. Youd still be able to gain a lead and itd keep the steal mechanic, but would make lanes way less snowbally.
@@sakatagintoki2835 tbh thats kinda irrelevant and an easy cop out reply. it should not be possible to be literally DOUBLE your lane opponents economy by 5 minutes unless they are literally not in lane. Alongside to further explain why its a cop out reply. Some characters are stronger than others early, this is just factual, its how all mobas work, there is very little way to avoid this if any at all. Making it so that whoever has the more early-game oriented character if they hard press their advantage just gets to steamroll and get twice your economy simply for knowing their character is stronger early is just braindead design. get a lead? sure. double the economy? not even remotely.
@@TheCosmicAstro- Again that's because the wraith was really bad. I literally main Infernus and he is weak in the laning phase and my opponent never has double my souls even if they are stomping me.
@@TheCosmicAstro- It never was irrelevant since you started off with "This video really helps show why they need to change the way laning phase works" when the video clearly doesn't do that. It's just a high elo player versus a guy who played his first match.
![Stromae, Pomme - “Ma Meilleure Ennemie” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1F3OGIFnW1k/mqdefault.jpg)
regardless if hes better than the opponents, theres still valuable information here for us new players and there isnt that many deadlock videos yet
Good to see this game taking off so well, I hope it does well for the channels growth
using initial zip to get there faster is simply not smart lol your little pressure gained no advantage against a better player.
I just save zip for a quick heal and come back kill attempt early on or if I get pushed out I get a quick reset button. Wasting it off start of game is questionable.
I get a ton of comback kills saving my zip because the enemy becomes overconfident.
Using the fast zip on first rollout is super dumb
@@feinky8489 depends on the char... mcginnis start on turrets the extra time to place turrets is kinda important.... same with talon if you start traps
@@zszempty Its a general guide though and he didn't play nor mention McGinnis now did he?
At various moments, you start taking fire, turn your back, and don’t shoot back; you just die while running. You can use the dash and turn around to keep shooting the enemy, even if you die. It’s better to deal damage and help your team than to die without dealing any damage. , Thanks for this video help me alot.
Lots of good info here! Getting into Deadlock and this is exactly what I needed :D
this is gonna be one of those games where content creators only upload videos where their team wins every lane and has a 30%+ lead the entire game
if youve ever played any moba ever in your entire life you know thats not true at all in any way shape or form.
Useful information, but I'm curious as to why you didn't use any of the static shops, or the remaining lane shops for your purchases, instead of backing all the way to base?
5:04
i get the big picture is the concepts but man this lane is not a good example of how it plays out, the wraith had no idea how to trade, deny creeps, or secure them. i guarantee the wraith has less than 10 games played.
yea. hard bots put up a better fight than this wraith
A lot of good tips and also room for improvement. You ran past the buff a few times. Also you went back to base to buy items whilest a shop in mid was closer. Still a good video :)
extremely informative video, thanks for this.
Game is so fun. Fresh but very familiar with aspects from decade old titles. Thanks for the content!
So much to learn in this game... I need to get better at laning I get trashed in every game...
The steam notification at 10:35 had me panicking. Lol
lol, why? it's just a notification
Nice video,it really helped me.
yall gotta remember all these streamers are bullying people in their lane because they JUST GOT THE GAME. Streamers got 100+ hours already. I guarantee the dude he made quit had less than 5 matches played like good for you dude.
It illustrates the point that if you don’t understand laneing, you’re going to have a bad time.
naw he would have been heavily bullied by an actual good opponent. wraith could not even hit him lol she cant aim at all
Wdym streamers, there are plenty of people no living this game that aren’t streaming
@@Surnwtf what he said
mmr goes per lane, so if you are getting rolled then you're either having a bad game or you got a counter, either way tho you aren't getting rolled by someone wayyy above your skill lvl
It's good that you're making content for the game, but as you are new to the moba genre, understanding how laning works is important, in this game it is important to constantly micro rotate from lane to camps, deny enemy spirits and claim your own.
Outerlanes need deliver urns, with support of midlanes through their crossing. Exact timings are important to learn.
Zip lines are on 3 minute timers, using them to get to lane first is irrelevant, as you'll get to your lane at the same time as your enemy, zipline boost should only be used when needing to back to heal and come back and or to defend a tower.
Early game it is important to learn meele and parry mechanics, it will contribute to a large portion of your early game burst, parry someone on your lane, punch them and it should result in a kill.
I think making a guide with little knowledge of the genre is not a good idea.
I am willing to give you a deep dive on the importance of moba's explain how to counter builds and characters. And how to build characters as well.
I’m not understanding the parry tip, you can only parry melee attacks right? Why would the enemy melee you if it directly could lead to a stun (unless they’re out of ammo and trying to confirm a kill on you).
Yes please
@@fluentgamer8611 melee attacks; charged or light, are really good for follow up or entry damage. If you parry someone it stuns them for 2 seconds and allows you to do double melee damage in return.
A lot of the time people will try to melee together, the parry is really a life saver more than anything.
@@fluentgamer8611 diff chars do diff melee damage - I think Abrams does the most and can pretty much wreck most characters with 3-4 melee attacks...
The thing that's been thrown me off about laning is how aggressive you can be. In other MOBAs I've played you're better off trying to let enemy creeps wander towards your own tower, but here, it seems like whoever pushes to their tower first and antagonizes constantly kinda just wins.
That's really not the case at all. In both League of Legends and Dota 2 if you just concede pressure and let the enemy constantly crash waves into your turret, if they're any good they can easily set up a freeze on the bounce back and deny you multiple waves in front of your face.
@@ougonce in dota you want to stabilize the creep wave just before they hit the tower, but its not always true depending on the lane and the comp
It depends- if there’s bebop aggressive tower pushes are risky due to hook
@@ougonce I agree with that, but deadlock seems to be so much more punishing.
Not only can you get poked much harder with the limited tower space but enemy can much more easily deny your creeps with you having to dodge their poke as well. Freezing in league is only applicable when your champion is fundamentally stronger whether it be by a lead or champion abilities (especially so in the early game where there isn't a lead established yet), otherwise shoving is pretty easy.
It is also noted that there is practically no punishment to hard shoving everytime in the early game of deadlock unlike with junglers in league.
Yeah I kinda feel this too, like the meta is just kill the heal creep and outpush because you get free dmg when they're trying to last hit. In dota it's a lot easier to punish people because towers are a lot scarier. I think it's mostly just how easy it is to dive in this game that allows advantage to be to the aggressive players.
one think ive noticed to many people do is. theyll be winning CS. but try and go for a kill. have unsecured souls. and when you kill them bam you just instantly are in the lead now for the rest of it. because they get to greedy.
having a lead means nothing if you dont have the items to back it up
@The Gaming Merchant do you know the aim speed conversion rate from apex to deadlock ?
11:15 you can shoot the core spawners at base to get the change needed for items
Building bullet armor vs McGinnis. That's show the knowledge of the game 😂. For new players, her dmg is mostly spirit, cuz turrets and ult
well - if starting with one of the biggest clips by default doesn't intimate to you that MAYBE shes a decent DPS gun build I dunno what will... you just havnt been wrecked by a titanic magazine, active reload, ricochet + long range Mcginnis yet... you keep playing - itll happen eventually.... rare build but it wrecks.
SHREDS objectives... with a wraith on the team for full auto its not a joke.
McGinnis is primarily gun damage
Stuff already changed TODAY. Wave is in front now for one
A lot of criticisms here tho this vid at least helped me understand the very basic of this game
why have only 9k people seen this? Is yt dampening the algorithm or something???
i noticed you like to reload while you have the ammo boost (44 rounds instead of 23) and it cuts you back to 23 rounds :)) here 18:48, 19:06, 19:17 :)
But what if you get pushed heavily? How do you combat that
feeling sleepy watching this
That steam notif had me so confused
Ok so, very start of the vid who is the lady with the cat on her back?! why do i not see her in roster?
new character nano has other name nano it's like code for character you can play her in the toolbox selecthero hero_nano she fun
Does the healer minions give more money and do they heal players?
They do heal players
What do you think HEALing minions do?....
I love to play heal and support. What is a good support in this game? And nice Video btw
Ivy
@@Noz_lund thank you
I've had some fun with healing as Kelvin so far, got 30k healing in a match earlier with him!
There's no REAL support, in the sense of a MOBA, they're all meant to be great damage dealers, but Viscous, Dynamo, McGinnis, Ivy and Kelvin have great support capability.
My personal (noob) experience is:
- from most CONSISTENT healing to least: Kelvin > McGinnis > Dynamo > Ivy > Viscous
- from highest healing POTENTIAL to lowest: Ivy > Dynamo > McGinnis > Kelvin > Viscous
Viscous is my favorite, as he can put allies into stasis and send them flying to safety while in stasis, which is simultaneously super helpful and hilarious to watch, but it's not the easiest to pull off. He's mostly meant to be a nuisance to the enemy team and not meant to be a healer, although this stasis thing does heal.
Dynamo is pretty straightforward, but his warp, unlike what was shown in this video, has INSANE damage and debuff negation potential. For example, if Infernus starts his ult to stun your entire team, you can temporarily warp everyone in your team (you'll probably miss one or two) to prevent the damage and stun. Throughout this video he could've also escaped Vindicta's binding spike multiple times, but alas.
McGinnis is often overlooked as a healer support and is often played as a split pusher, but her heal after max is just crazy good. I honestly think her wall is OP in laning and team fights, you can't jump over it with double jump and it lasts for ages
Ivy is also a great support but she requires or teammate to be coordinated with you, most randoms I play with completely disregard when I bind with them, which is when they're supposed to be aggressive. You can get insane heals if you and your ally have good aim. With that said, Ivy is a crazy aggressive gun damage dealer
Kevin is, in my opinion, the closest thing to a "true" support. He slows everyone down, he can speed up his team, he can trap enemies while healing allies within, and he has an aoe insta heal later on. His "front line-ish" tendency also makes him perfect to burst heal on (an item that heals around you) but also rescue beam allowing you to pull the "true" front liners away from danger if they need to, or simply heal them.
That strategy fails if enemy team can communicate and will gank you while you push that much...
How long do invites take? Been waiting over 2 days now
i got mine within 2 hours and everyone i gave an inv to got it in the same time, make sure you're checking your email connected to your steam account
I've seen some people have this issue and what worked for them is getting an invite on an alternative steam account
I need to spend money on an alternate account in order to get an invite
Man you took footage from match where your opponent doesn't even try neither to contest lasthits not to hit you for that. Like, how to win EVEN lanes, maybe? Or even lanes where your opponent just simply better aiming?
You use zero the Jungle. Bad rotations and roaming. You should always look for the creeps while landing and roaming. For example when u first killed her you pushed the tower with inefficient tower dmg without you items. You should take her creep camp next to the tower instead. Then take tower. After that Take your creep camp. Then you could roam
after taking the camps you'd need to go back to heal up, and by the time you're trying to roam, Wraith is on your tower. Not saying that's not the way to go, but there's something missing from that strategy
Merchant!
I don't understan what king of bonus the slide glitch is giving while attaking turrets? (at 20:42) someone could explain?
its not a glitch, when you slide you get infinite ammo for the duration of the slide
@@Squeegie_Clean OH WOW ok, it's huge I did not understand the meaning of the infinite sign, now it makes sens
10:35 : No that's not yours, it's his
What’s sens !!
Would have been a much better video if you played against someone good. She dived into your minions to chase you suoer early, missed a ton of cs and didnt try to deny, you're playing against someone whos only played a few games.
15:00 noted
Who was the first character u showed fir like 5 seconds? Never seen her
That’s Calico! She’s unreleased, but you can play her in the sandbox mode by using the dev console. She seems to be a more melee/stealth focused hero who can use ghost cats and stuff.
You can actually play a bunch of unreleased/unused heroes, though a bunch of don’t have animations and are from an earlier development version, back when the game was Neon Prime and had a cyberpunk setting.
@@zem1ya thank you!
Bro summoned the entire gd community
Some good general tips in there but also this seems to be very low Elo this wraith didn't know what she was doing at all. Winning a lane like this is a given really. Also using up your zipline speedboost at the start of the game is a save way to lose your lane if you come up against someone oppressive.
I'd like to see you do the same thing vs an oppressive player or even a Mo and Krill/ Abrahms player who knows what he is doing.
Also eventhough you had a huge lead at the start you didn't really end up pushing your advantage since at 10minutes you had 5k souls and wraith also caught up to 5k and your ganks didn't translate into your other lanes winning either since your team was down 3 towers vs their 2 towers plus 3 enemy players were at 7 and 8k while your team only had one player at 8k.
Purple lane was unattended the whole time and you could probably easily have applied more pressure and tried to take the walker which would at least have forced wraith to stay purple lane getting further behind in farm and not being able to gank herself which was quite successful for her getting her back into the game and did nothing for you really. Also the lane next to you was a solo lane so the possibility of you getting ganked while going for their walker was also rather low and if they would have ziplined over to you they would have to give up either the yellow or orange lane to do so which would have given your team a pretty big advantage to win the fights there as well.
Not to mention that getting that additional flex slot would have helped your team get an early advantage and all the souls that were lost on purple lane having noone there to farm them.
0:00 uhhhh, **who** are you playing here?
THERE'S A SHOP NEXT TO THE LANE???
until you destroy the first guardian, then it's gone
bro does the game tell you any of this. I was wondering why I was getting so boned in lanes sometimes. I didn't even know you were suppose to shoot the little souls that pop out! I thought I was doing good just by getting last hits or denying kills.
I also didn't know that ganking you lose souls like that
Can anyone hook me up with early access... Id be forever grateful
yeah sure, send me your steam name. i add you and send you the invite
penguin
penguin
@@dotapazappy yes
still waiting for that invitation code lol
oh wait nvm, its just arrived lol
Damn, must be nice
how do u get it
@@reddeadaustria6725 get an invite from someone that has it. Lots of smaller streamers are doing invite parties
25:04 no 6971 souls
why are you like this....
@@dotapazappy 😂
First
@@Malothegoat I was first
moose
Dmnn thats how you play .... I was just goin for only kills and lose the match😅
How to win if the game isn't out yet
you can play it by getting someone who has the game to invite you. you should get a code for it in an hour to two days after that
I feel this game is fun but really missing the jungle aspect of a moba
Dota and Dota 2 do not have jungle either. Neutral camps are source of money for carries.
This video really helps show why they need to change the way laning phase works.
Not only is she losing souls from you stealing, but shes also losing souls because she is just unable to last hit due to how much pressure you have the whole time which snowballs extremely hard.
They need to at LEAST always give the on-death souls when a nearby enemy minion dies to help slow the snowball.
Youd still be able to gain a lead and itd keep the steal mechanic, but would make lanes way less snowbally.
His opponent was just bad. That wraith couldn't even shoot him.
@@sakatagintoki2835 tbh thats kinda irrelevant and an easy cop out reply.
it should not be possible to be literally DOUBLE your lane opponents economy by 5 minutes unless they are literally not in lane.
Alongside to further explain why its a cop out reply. Some characters are stronger than others early, this is just factual, its how all mobas work, there is very little way to avoid this if any at all. Making it so that whoever has the more early-game oriented character if they hard press their advantage just gets to steamroll and get twice your economy simply for knowing their character is stronger early is just braindead design.
get a lead? sure. double the economy? not even remotely.
@@TheCosmicAstro- Again that's because the wraith was really bad. I literally main Infernus and he is weak in the laning phase and my opponent never has double my souls even if they are stomping me.
@@sakatagintoki2835 and i explained why thats irrelevant.
Thanks for proving my point
@@TheCosmicAstro- It never was irrelevant since you started off with "This video really helps show why they need to change the way laning phase works" when the video clearly doesn't do that. It's just a high elo player versus a guy who played his first match.
god that wraith was awful, her farming and denial of souls was terrible
op too weak
Man this game isn't even released yet. What's the point of these how to videos?
There’s people currently playing the game, Hawkins. Therefore these videos are nice to see, hell, it helped me just now. That’s the point
@daniellemus8218 creates a bigger skill gap prematurely which kills the game for entry players at launch
@@dubchinist8382 They are handing out invites like candy in the deadlock subreddit. You can easily get it. There's like 80k active players already.
@@dubchinist8382 108k players clown
@@jayomega2717 is it even a beta at that point?