I've got an Antoine Courtois AC166 5-Valve Saxhorn that is essentially a flat 4th for the 5th valve so you'd use it like a 4th valve in the low register. Plays pretty fantastic!
I have a very similar horn made in my adopted home city of antwerp. There was a very robust music instrument manufacturing industry in Belgium, which is almost entirely gone.
Apparently Yamaha YEP-321 euphoniums had a 5th rotor attachment available at one point direct from Yamaha similar to the Adams you mentioned, and The Horn Guys made a similar setup as an add-on up until recent years. The 4 on top/1 rotor combination seems interesting for someone like me who started on an american-style front valve noncomp tuba, where I got used to the 4th being under my pinky as opposed to my left hand. I played a Holton copy of the YEP-321 in high school for a semester, I enjoyed it for what it was and the 5th valve seemed like it would have been a nice addition to assist in low register tuning. But then again, I’m an upright/electric bassist who just happened to play low brass occasionally in high school when a seat needed to be filled, so I’m probably not the best source of good advice or information on the subject.
You are becoming so much more animated as you continue to recover from your back surgeries. Someday your sarcasm will transform into a purely physical form and we'll actually have to pay more attention to the "video" parts of your videos.
Other similar non-compensating instruments might include the Alexander 151 5 rotary valve baritone (tenor) tuba, effectively a German/Spanish take on a euphonium, the French Bb bass saxhorns as made by Courtois until fairly recently, and the 6 piston French C tuba, currently only made by Wessex. The 6 valve French C is particularly interesting as it has a 3 1/2 step 6th, either a flat tone or flat semitone 5th, and a 1 1/2 or 2 tone 3rd, meaning every note down to the pedal can be played using just 3 valves, and with all six down you get a pedal A0!
My sectionmate ordered one of the Adams (retired and living their [for anonymity’s sake] best life in the low brass section). I don’t know when it’s coming in but they’re very much like a kid waiting for Santa. If you have any questions or want any info/video/pics, let me know and I’ll see what I can pass on.
Yeah it's a really stupid way to make a 5 valve instrument. In the tuba world, they tried that tuning, and pretty much everyone decided it sucked compared to a setup like this one. The tuning tendencies are really bad, and a lot of lipping up and down is needed.
Thankyou for another quirky but most interesting video production. Two hundred years from now someone will do his/her Musicology Ph.D. Thesis based on your numerous delightfully quirky reviews! Again, thank you from New Jersey only ten miles away from the entrance of the Lincoln Tunnel which takes you to the center of the Island of Manhattan which is NYC. Cheers!
Hello, You wrong it's not an euphonium but a saxhorn. We still play this kind of "ténor tuba" in France that's not abandonned actually. Sadly with the time no more brand will build it properly and now Courtois build this with a compensating 4 valves. There is still Couesnon who build this properly.
Is that actually a French Bb bass saxhorn? They had that valve arrangement quite commonly, especially with the pistons sticking up above the top bow, and it has the extra long leadpipe found on saxhorns. Considering that Besson was originally French, I think it's quite likely. With the instrument in such a poor state, it will probably be hard to tell, but it should have a somewhat clearer and less diffuse sound than a euphonium, and have a pretty flat 5th partial.
Instead of compensating, have they ever tried the "double-horn" mechanism, like in French Horn, where it essentially routes it to an entirely different tuning body altogether? Would solve the stuffy timbre issue.
I'd be interested on you doing some sort of discussion regarding "False tones" and how they effect different brass, such as being a special timbre on trombone, vs. usable on Tuba.
Good to have yo back broadcasting again. There is a video of a Vienna Brass and Reed group with percussion and the upright tuba instrument has 6 or 7 rotary valves. What gives with that instrument?
It might be a double tuba. Some German manufacturers made them in the 1950s and they continued up to the 1990s. It would be in F and CC. Hugely heavy, but serving the same purpose as a double horn, to get both the high and low tuba in one.
The best parallel of compensating vs. non-compensating, why trombone has no 7th position when you use F-attachment (and thus no low B natural)! Of course, trombone DOES compensate, because the positions are not in the same place with the F-attachment.
Ya know whats funny? In freshmen year of highschool i asked to play trumpet, but they were out of available trumpets. So they gave me a concert euphonium instead. I had to march with it to. It wasnt until concert season rolled around when i got a marching baritone. In concert band. Welcome to rural highschool marching band.
You know what is missing from your collection? Some Wagner Tubas. I hear the Chinese now even make a double tuba like the double horn so one can just buy one instead of both transpositions. Also, still waiting on a Cimbasso in your collection.
what's the difference between a typical american bari/euph (with the 3 valves positioned the same as that 5-valved one) and a (american) baritone with front-positioned valves?
Could someone clarify for me please? I have a four-valve noncompensating euphonium. What am I missing that a compensating or this five-vale would provide? Would it make more notes available or just make some of them easier to play?
It helps to get the lower range in tune. And you can play the low B natural. Trent have a video explaining the difference. You can check "compensating system on brass instruments" (something so) and "the science of brass tuning"
I also play a 4 valve non-comper. Here's where a 5th would help, and why I'm buying a new instrument: B natural and E natural as 4-2 are quite sharp. 2-3-5 is much better, and more ergonomic. Low Eb below the staff is either very sharp as 1-4 or very flat as 1-2-4. I use 1-4 and pull the tuning slide (quite far!) with my left hand, but that gets annoying. 4-5 would be just about perfect. Low D as 2-3-4 is pretty good. No changes here Low Db as 1-3-4 is slightly sharp, but 1-2-3-4 is very flat. 1-2-4-5 would be just about perfect, and 3-4-5 would blow easier. Low C as 1-2-3-4 is impossibly sharp, and still sharp even with the 1st valve slide pulled until it's just about falling out. 2-3-4-5 would still be sharp, but it could be managed. Low B is impossible without pulling both the 1st and 3rd slides most of the way out, which can't really be done while playing. 1-2-3-4-5 is rock solid, if a bit stuffy (still less stuffy than a on compensator, though). The 5th valve also gives some interesting alternate fingerings in the normal playing registers, though these are usually a bit flat: Db, Gb, and Bb can be played 1-5, meaning you can avoid the 1 to 2-3 dance on fast bits. C, F, and A can be played 1-2-5 instead of 1-3 or 4 High F and high C# can be played just 5th, using the 7th and 11th partials, but I don't see much use for that.
@@seth094978 Can I ask why you prefer a 5 non-compensating to a 4 compensating? I have never played a compensating instrument (I play french horn and recently got a non-compensating 4 valve euphonium)
@@jimm.s.4131 Because I think compensating instruments sound bad when using the compensating system, and honestly not as good even in the middle and high register. If David Werden or Steven Mead can't make the low range sound good (to my ear), then I have no hope.
It has just about the stupidest 5th valve possible! They should have learned from the tuba world and made it a flat tone, like this one. The tuning on that instrument cannot possibly be good; you can even hear it in their demo video!
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I hope you can restore this unique five piston euphonium so it can be played!
That would be an interesting exercise, I wonder how well it plays intune.
Unlikely - valve refits are forbiddingly expensive
I've got an Antoine Courtois AC166 5-Valve Saxhorn that is essentially a flat 4th for the 5th valve so you'd use it like a 4th valve in the low register. Plays pretty fantastic!
Oh that's super cool. I had no idea that existed. They don't advertise it on their website.
I have a very similar horn made in my adopted home city of antwerp. There was a very robust music instrument manufacturing industry in Belgium, which is almost entirely gone.
Apparently Yamaha YEP-321 euphoniums had a 5th rotor attachment available at one point direct from Yamaha similar to the Adams you mentioned, and The Horn Guys made a similar setup as an add-on up until recent years. The 4 on top/1 rotor combination seems interesting for someone like me who started on an american-style front valve noncomp tuba, where I got used to the 4th being under my pinky as opposed to my left hand. I played a Holton copy of the YEP-321 in high school for a semester, I enjoyed it for what it was and the 5th valve seemed like it would have been a nice addition to assist in low register tuning. But then again, I’m an upright/electric bassist who just happened to play low brass occasionally in high school when a seat needed to be filled, so I’m probably not the best source of good advice or information on the subject.
You are becoming so much more animated as you continue to recover from your back surgeries. Someday your sarcasm will transform into a purely physical form and we'll actually have to pay more attention to the "video" parts of your videos.
Other similar non-compensating instruments might include the Alexander 151 5 rotary valve baritone (tenor) tuba, effectively a German/Spanish take on a euphonium, the French Bb bass saxhorns as made by Courtois until fairly recently, and the 6 piston French C tuba, currently only made by Wessex. The 6 valve French C is particularly interesting as it has a 3 1/2 step 6th, either a flat tone or flat semitone 5th, and a 1 1/2 or 2 tone 3rd, meaning every note down to the pedal can be played using just 3 valves, and with all six down you get a pedal A0!
My sectionmate ordered one of the Adams (retired and living their [for anonymity’s sake] best life in the low brass section). I don’t know when it’s coming in but they’re very much like a kid waiting for Santa. If you have any questions or want any info/video/pics, let me know and I’ll see what I can pass on.
I play euphonium and it's so fun but that that's a peace of art and I hope it gets played some day have a good day yall
Thats a rather unique instrument
Some one has made a five valve euphonium recently. The fithe valve is like a bass trombone.
That's the Adams euphonium I referred to in the video.
Yeah it's a really stupid way to make a 5 valve instrument. In the tuba world, they tried that tuning, and pretty much everyone decided it sucked compared to a setup like this one. The tuning tendencies are really bad, and a lot of lipping up and down is needed.
A friend of mine has had one of these for years. It's pretty neat.
Thankyou for another quirky but most interesting video production. Two hundred years from now someone will do his/her Musicology Ph.D. Thesis based on your numerous delightfully quirky reviews!
Again, thank you from New Jersey only ten miles away from the entrance of the Lincoln Tunnel which takes you to the center of the Island of Manhattan which is NYC. Cheers!
I actually find the old one more aesthetically pleasing to the eye. The modern compensated one is all over the place ...
Hello,
You wrong it's not an euphonium but a saxhorn.
We still play this kind of "ténor tuba" in France that's not abandonned actually.
Sadly with the time no more brand will build it properly and now Courtois build this with a compensating 4 valves.
There is still Couesnon who build this properly.
Is that actually a French Bb bass saxhorn? They had that valve arrangement quite commonly, especially with the pistons sticking up above the top bow, and it has the extra long leadpipe found on saxhorns. Considering that Besson was originally French, I think it's quite likely.
With the instrument in such a poor state, it will probably be hard to tell, but it should have a somewhat clearer and less diffuse sound than a euphonium, and have a pretty flat 5th partial.
Instead of compensating, have they ever tried the "double-horn" mechanism, like in French Horn, where it essentially routes it to an entirely different tuning body altogether? Would solve the stuffy timbre issue.
I can only imagine how heavy that would be
I'd be interested on you doing some sort of discussion regarding "False tones" and how they effect different brass, such as being a special timbre on trombone, vs. usable on Tuba.
Good to have yo back broadcasting again. There is a video of a Vienna Brass and Reed group with percussion and the upright tuba instrument has 6 or 7 rotary valves. What gives with that instrument?
It might be a double tuba. Some German manufacturers made them in the 1950s and they continued up to the 1990s. It would be in F and CC. Hugely heavy, but serving the same purpose as a double horn, to get both the high and low tuba in one.
The best parallel of compensating vs. non-compensating, why trombone has no 7th position when you use F-attachment (and thus no low B natural)! Of course, trombone DOES compensate, because the positions are not in the same place with the F-attachment.
Did you rearrange your wall? It looks different, but it might just be the camera.
Ya know whats funny? In freshmen year of highschool i asked to play trumpet, but they were out of available trumpets. So they gave me a concert euphonium instead. I had to march with it to. It wasnt until concert season rolled around when i got a marching baritone. In concert band. Welcome to rural highschool marching band.
is it possible to do that on stain glass solder or have to plated it before
You know what is missing from your collection? Some Wagner Tubas. I hear the Chinese now even make a double tuba like the double horn so one can just buy one instead of both transpositions. Also, still waiting on a Cimbasso in your collection.
Are you funding this, or am I? lol
I'd also be very happy for someone to buy me a cimbasso.
@@TrentHamilton I sympathize...
Have you come across a microtone trumpet yet?
what's the difference between a typical american bari/euph (with the 3 valves positioned the same as that 5-valved one) and a (american) baritone with front-positioned valves?
cool, play it
A friend of mine has a 5 valve Mirafone euph...
Is it a rotary valve instrument?
I have a five valve Cerveny coming in the next month or so. It is rotary.
Yes, it is.
Woah that's so cool
All that makes my head swirl. I'll stick to my trombone with no valves and one really long tuning slide.
Could someone clarify for me please? I have a four-valve noncompensating euphonium. What am I missing that a compensating or this five-vale would provide? Would it make more notes available or just make some of them easier to play?
It helps to get the lower range in tune.
And you can play the low B natural.
Trent have a video explaining the difference.
You can check "compensating system on brass instruments" (something so) and "the science of brass tuning"
I also play a 4 valve non-comper.
Here's where a 5th would help, and why I'm buying a new instrument:
B natural and E natural as 4-2 are quite sharp. 2-3-5 is much better, and more ergonomic.
Low Eb below the staff is either very sharp as 1-4 or very flat as 1-2-4. I use 1-4 and pull the tuning slide (quite far!) with my left hand, but that gets annoying. 4-5 would be just about perfect.
Low D as 2-3-4 is pretty good. No changes here
Low Db as 1-3-4 is slightly sharp, but 1-2-3-4 is very flat. 1-2-4-5 would be just about perfect, and 3-4-5 would blow easier.
Low C as 1-2-3-4 is impossibly sharp, and still sharp even with the 1st valve slide pulled until it's just about falling out. 2-3-4-5 would still be sharp, but it could be managed.
Low B is impossible without pulling both the 1st and 3rd slides most of the way out, which can't really be done while playing. 1-2-3-4-5 is rock solid, if a bit stuffy (still less stuffy than a on compensator, though).
The 5th valve also gives some interesting alternate fingerings in the normal playing registers, though these are usually a bit flat:
Db, Gb, and Bb can be played 1-5, meaning you can avoid the 1 to 2-3 dance on fast bits.
C, F, and A can be played 1-2-5 instead of 1-3 or 4
High F and high C# can be played just 5th, using the 7th and 11th partials, but I don't see much use for that.
@@seth094978 Can I ask why you prefer a 5 non-compensating to a 4 compensating?
I have never played a compensating instrument (I play french horn and recently got a non-compensating 4 valve euphonium)
@@jimm.s.4131 😊
@@jimm.s.4131 Because I think compensating instruments sound bad when using the compensating system, and honestly not as good even in the middle and high register. If David Werden or Steven Mead can't make the low range sound good (to my ear), then I have no hope.
It looks like a Saxhorn, not an Euphonium...
Yeah, I would get it serviced/resoldered and actually play it for the video. I mean, cool I guess but I would have liked to hear it.
A full restoration would be very expensive
@@TrentHamilton then don't show me it because I love the euphoniums and this ones so uniq😭😭😭
Hi Trent. Did you get it from Fergus McIvor from Wales?
No, someone here in New Zealand.
@@TrentHamiltonI think Fergus still has a playable one to sell (if he didn't sell it yet), with 5 valves in C, I think!
🎍 goes on 🍕
Saxhorn basse
Faltou tocar uma escala
Try an ADAMS 5-Valve Non-compenstating euphonium $4508.00 brand new, selling like hot cakes.
It has just about the stupidest 5th valve possible! They should have learned from the tuba world and made it a flat tone, like this one. The tuning on that instrument cannot possibly be good; you can even hear it in their demo video!