@@clairestark9024 I have been to university and people introduced themselves and then proceeded to ask me what my pronouns were. In my case, it is because I have long hair and so people tend to assume I might be a trans woman. If these people met an alien species, they would probably think to ask their pronouns or what they preferred to be called.
😂i was called transphobic for referring to someone as a she. Because when I met them this person went by she. I have no idea what they go by now. And since we aren't friends I didnt bother to you know keep track of someone who stabbed me in the back.😅
The problem was the writing. What should have been written for Rose would have been something along the lines of "Are we sure The Meep is a 'him'?" or something along the lines of that. Would have flowed better with the scene and come across as much less insulting.
no, leaving that out entirely would have flowed better, did we ever have this problem with jack harkness? was jack harkness hated? was there ever anything people didnt like about jack harkness? no, he got his own show, and people wanted him back because they did it right and were not pushing an agenda that no one wants the problem was indeed the writing you are correct, the message should not have been in it to begin with, let the character speak for itself, not the delusion of its gender
It's such a minor issue. One that was likely written by a well meaning writer who just isn't that up to date on the lingo and how to address this stuff cause hes 60
@@DoctorTimelordA gay writer having a gay character constantly flirting with men and kissing them isnt "shoving it down your throat"? Nostalgia blind moron. If Jack came out today youd be shitting your pants about the wolk.
Well, it does make sense. Aliens are not humans or earthlings biologically. So why don’t you stfu or go make your own sci fi movie with your own rules and systems! No? You won’t do that? Then shut up!
Exactly. It's an alien, with no clear sex characteristics, and the other alien, who literally just changed his own gender and has been dealing with constant pronoun issues himself, made a weird assumption that he then agrees is weird. If anyone were going to notice, it would be the human who's also dealing with this problem. For once, this type of exchange makes perfect sense.
"You cannot criticize, go make your own!" is NOT an argument. You don't need to be a chef to criticize a chef for putting an excrement in your soup.@@ulfberht4431
The ironic thing is that Rose is the one who is more offensive by her own logic. They assumes an alien race would only have pronouns that they had on earth.😅
Si tienen pronombres descocidos en la tierra no tiene sentido preguntarle ¿“él”, “ella” o “elle”? Lo más normal hubiera sido preguntarle el pronombre. Ademas crea risa involuntaria preguntar algo así en esa situación.
This isn’t too bad, I just think the “you’re assuming he as a pronoun?” line is what kinda makes it weird. So much talk of pronouns nowadays that we associate “assuming pronouns” with woke shit. Had she said “you sure it’s a he?”, because it’s an alien species and they wouldn’t be sure what the differences between the male and female counterparts are in their species, it may have came across better. Or not idk, not a Doctor Who fan so what does what I say matter? 🤷♂️
I think you have a point. And it should matter regardless if you’re a fan or not. Fans are often so hellbent on gatekeeping and shunning everyone else who challenges their flawed logic or call out on their rather abrasive behaviour that frankly THEIR points don’t matter!
Thats literally not the case. If it was a case of misgender it would of been "you're assuming its a he" I dont mind the talk about pronouns but this just feels very forced idk
Yeah that's the point, no one talks like that unless they want to push ideology, it's completely unnatural, the point of this scene is supposed to be they don't know if this alien is male or female and they made it about identity politics.
I blame everyone on set for this. The writers, the directors, the actors, the cameraman, the boom mic opearator, catering, the valet, the executive assistant, the producers, everyone. This is trash. Utter trash
If a caveman character talked like "Grog like stick, Grog hit you with stick" you wouldn't think twice over it even though Grog is being used in the same way that is being used here. You only dislike it because you've consumed propaganda meant to make you dislike it, Grog would know, Grog smarter than grog looks like
@@Nick-ib3hw"If a character talked differently, you'd be fine with it because they talked differently but when this character talks differently, you don't like it because you've consumed enough propaganda where they don't talk differently." This is the biggest strawman I've seen this year.
@@AmelityshTVThis painfully woke and unnecessary dialogue. Also, if you actually met an alien I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t be worrying about its pronouns.
@@That_Random_Bloke Doctor Who has always been a "woke" show. People just don't like this sort of change even though it's just polite. Also, if nothing else, aliens would definitely be something you'd ask the pronouns of. 1. It's polite and 2. How do you know what an alien is or what pronouns it goes by. Same for real people as well.
she could have just asked "why do you presume that it is a boy" and the thing says "i am neither a boy nor a girl i am the meep" no drama no conflict but we NEED that conflict !! twitter needs to explode with this
@@6-dpegasus425 by “non-issue” I mean something that isn’t that serious. Exploding Twitter over “why do you assume he as a pronoun” is just being overly sensitive. It’s was one line, not the end of the world
I think I understand why this scene bothered me when I first saw it. While it was well meaning, Rose got upset at The Doctor for assuming The Meep's pronouns even though The Meep clearly took no offense. I feel like if anyone should have corrected The Doctor, it should have been The Meep, not Rose. Or maybe have a scene where The Meep showed discomfort from being called "Him" and THEN have Rose speak up. I'm all for respecting pronouns, but we should ASSIST in other people's fights, not start fights in their name.
I'm on the opposite side of this argument. I don't think pronouns should be "respected" in the way most people demand. They, quite literally, don't matter, and if they somehow matter to you (you being a generalisation), then you need to reevaluate what is important. In a perfect world? Sure. Pronouns should probably be respected, but we don't live in a perfect world, and nobody owes anyone anything, so it's kind of like pissing into the wind. If yours (Again, generalisation) get respected, great, but if they don't, does it actually matter? No.
@@widexawake_ From what I gathereed from reading and then rereading your comment, you opinion is "The world sucks, so fuck your feelings." I can't even begin to explain all the issues with such a statement.
No this is just how trans people are, someone called me a “he” at a party and some trans person got upset that this person may have misgendered me even though I’m a bloke with a beard and a cock and honestly if they would have called me she I wouldn’t have cared because pronouns are stupid and don’t matter
human civilization exists because we respect each other. you can't have a truly free-for-all society, because at some point protecting your freedoms inevitably means abusing someone else's - like the power struggles of our pre-modern past, groups with different values and beliefs would inevitably and continuously battle with each other, it would be a violent and chaotic life. politeness and manners may seem pointless, but think of where we'd be without them - they are kind of a cultural glue that enables us to peacefully co-exist in a complicated and diverse society. All of that said. If as a man you want to be called "Steve" but people insist on calling you "Tiffany", the response isn't "let people call anybody whatever they want." It's a bare basic sense of decency to just call a person by the name they prefer. All deeper healthier social relationships are built upon this platform. Because if they refuse to listen to your name, how can you rely on them for anything else? If you want to be called Steve, then people should call you Steve. The same is true with pronouns.
@@kedarguruu This is entirely false. My opinion of you should not change your opinion of yourself as your opinion of me doesn't change my opinion of myself. If someone not adhering to some arbitrary linguistic gymnastics is seen as "disrespectful" then we don't live in a "society." No one is obligated to like anyone for anyone reason, so why do people expect everyone to be nice to them, to the point where they engage in witch-hunts because people refuse to acknowledge the biological paradox of men becoming women? I have no issue with people using any pronouns they feel comfortable with, or with anyone being "Transgender," as long as we can agree that these things are superficial fixes to deeper, psychological issues. Gender IS a binary. It can't be disputed. So why do we need to start calling Steve "Tiffany?" For the sake of one person's feelings? How does THAT make sense? Why do ~97% of the population need to conform to the demands of the ~3%? I thought we lived in a "Society?" See, that's how ludicrous the entire situation looks when you start pulling at threads.
I was enjoying the episode up until this point but when Rose butted in with the whole “did you just ASSUME the pronouns of an alien?!”, I just rolled my eyes. How would an alien from outer space be aware of pronouns and their significance to Earth. This felt very shoe horned in.
The MEEP don't need NO STINKING Pronouns..! I am the MEEP Mutha Farkas you Stupid Female and Whatever your Child is...! Whatever IT IS ...! Great Job RTD you played yourself🤢.
In the context of this show specifically, though, it actually does makes sense for once. The Doctor has literally just changed gender and back himself and knows first hand how annoying messed-up pronouns can be. There's nothing particularly masculine about this creature, but the Doctor defaulted to it being male, and when it's pointed out he sincerely questions why he would do that. This is something we tend to do in general as a society: if it's not explicitly feminine the "normal" is considered male. But we really shouldn't do that, and someone like Rose (or the Doctor) is more likely to notice and call it out. ...And he's not apologising to the trans person for his political incorrectness, like I heard someone suggest, the Doctor turned to Rose to say "good point." "Sorry" is this face's catchphrase; that's just him expressing his mistake before continuing.
@@hiccuphufflepuff176 Most reasonable point ever! Wish more people were as mindful and not always jumping to “duh dis is woke garbage because dis guy said pronouns and women duh!”
@@ulfberht4431 No because the line should of been "you're assuming its a he" which means is it female or male gender. We dont know its an alien. But by saying "you're assuming he as a pronoun". Opens the case of whats its preferred pronoun not its species gender.
@@ulfberht4431so many people jump to that because it is all pointless garbage Just people looking to be wound up about something for the sake of it If your confidence in your own identity gets shook because someone said he instead of whatever Then youve got massive issues outsidr of the english dialect I would go talk to a shrink instead of trying to force your agenda on others This is noy to say im phobic of different i accept people as tbey come whether thatz trans gay/bi etc anything
I hate how he looks over at Rose and apologises. Like they’ve supposedly offended “the meep” with the wrong pronoun, yet he apologises to Rose when she points it out. Fucking victim mentality all over, really tells you who the show is pandering to.
This thing has been going around for longer. 2012, I'm pretty sure Tumblr was already into identifying as celestial constellations and proclaiming self-diagnosed mental illnesses
@@JohnSmith-it6hj Progressivism won't stop any time soon. In fact, most people are actually in favor of progressive ideas which is why it's still afloat. You think most people hate it because you're in an echo chamber.
I kind of hate this scene like its just such clunky dialogue "ARE U ASSUMING THE MEEP'S PRONOUNS" like its a cool scene to have aliens are so much different than us when it comes to their sex and their gender and such its honestly an interesting topic like alien social ethics it is an interesting conversation to have but they way they did it was so cringe
If you met an alien, would the first thing you worry about its pronouns? I'd be more concerned to find out if it was going to give me an anal probe like Cartman.
"my chosen pronoun is the definite article, i am the meep" "oh i do that" these two lines in particular feel super in character for the show, feels like a pronoun joke done right and it doesnt feel cheesy (but i know people would disagree)
The trans dude even saying he forgot to ask for pronouns is what people are mad about, why even write that into the script. They couldve just done the classic "what gender are you" since its alien and the joke woulda been the same, but they chose to add pronouns now. That in itself is a joke. A bad one
It's the wording that's making me cringe. We seriously need a writers purge. Let them all go to find another job cause clearly they're not cutting it as writers
yeah for real :( it sounds mocking just like transphobes talk about trans/non binary people. it would be really cool if a trans person would be part of the writing process, same as women, so there wouldnt be any sexist or discriminating stuff yk
This is what people were afraid of when 13 came along. The fans wouldn't have an issue with a female doctor if the female doctor was a good character. But, huh, surprise surprise, she's not! In fact this whole season is one of the most abysmal character assassinations I've ever witnessed. What *happened* to the Man Who Regrets?
It's Dalrymple-style communist propaganda of humiliation. It's not there to persuade or convince, not to inform, but to humiliate. I'd also add that it's there to trample, insult, demoralize, provoke, anger, and to certain extents drive you insane.
Exactly! Thirteen was a waste of a character due almost entirely to Chibnall's abysmally bad show writing. 'Go woke, go broke' isn't a universal truth but good grief it happens a lot. Art is about showing, not telling. This is telling
I mean, why wouldn't it? Japanese - a country with a relatively strict gender binary culturally - has over 40 pronouns for various situations and contexts. Most people still have preferred pronouns in Japanese. The situation could actually be *more* convoluted in space.
During Capaldi era the Doctor : -Punched a nazi being racist to his bestie -had a black and lesbian companion -had multiple political episode like OXYGEN -canonise the Doctor being Genderfluid/non binary -embrace River's pansexuality and polyamory But yeah you will complain about politics only now fake ass 😂
Lol, you know the doctor was gender fluid for forever right ? Not mentioning they too use the definite article as the doctor say. Speaking of which, you also know David Tennant, who plays the 10th doctor openly supports trans ppl he litteraly have a shirt with : leave trans kids alone you freaks, and has a trans pin of the tardis ? I'm sure you didn't
Rose is a trans character who probably hates being misgendered, like most other trans people. She was trying to make sure it wasn't happening to someone else
Then why is she transphobic at the end? Or did you not manage to catch how the lines "Shame you're not a woman anymore" form Donna and "No male-presenting timelord would understand" from Rose are transphobic as fuck in the context they're in? @@AmelityshTV
"Male-presenting" includes trans men. And no, sexism is not ok. It doesn't matter if it's humans or timelords. Also, the Doctor had been a woman mere days ago. The closest analogy we have for the Doctor's gender swap situation is a trans man. Go up to a trans guys and tell him "Shame you're not a woman anymore." Let's see if he thinks it's ok and not transphobic. @@AmelityshTV
@quantumvideoscz2052 Trans men prefer being men. Trans women prefer being women. The Doctor does not care. They're gender fluid. Male presenting means all men. Trans and cis. While it's a dodgy line, it isn't transphobia. Transphobia is being a dick to trans people for being trans. This wasn't transphobia as the Doctor has no choice in being any gender. It's a situation that, while can be construed as a trans thing, is not a situation similar enough to any normal human circumstance
Do you remember those weird tumblr kids who would threaten to cut themselves if you didn't tag their niche personal triggers/fetishes? They run your society now.
No, because there is a term difference between gendered pronouns and gramatical pronouns. Yes, technically, you'd need to run through the whole 6 forms (three persons in singular and in plural). However, gendered pronouns are not like that. The only relevant forms are the third person singular and plural, as terms like I, you, or we remain unchanged. I is a grammatical pronoun, but not a gendered one because it doesn't change. And Julius Ceasar doesn't get a vote.
Pronouns serve different functions in first or third person. There is nothing contradictory about the meep using "I" in first person while also requesting others to use "the meep" in third person.
@@WasserstoffmeloneBro, when has he ever been just one line? Where there's 1 line, there are 20 more over the course of the season. Stop accepting slop just because it may not be 100% rotted to the core
It's HOW, H O W it's written. Not that there are progressive themes and messages. When will you people understand this and stop strawmanning the argument?
I felt like her line delivery of "You're assuming he as a pronoun" was a bit aggressive. Its makes people like her come across as unlikeable, if she was polite about it then it wouldn't be an issue
uhhh i think i found out what bothered me too! i really like the scene, i think its funny, bute yeah Rose shouldve said it more in a nice questioning "you assume he as a pronouns :o ?" way. the way its delivered plays more into the cards of transphobic people who take anything they can grab to put down people who just wanna be accepted. the line delivery doesnt sound casual. she maybe couldve just asked "do you go by "he" :) ?" and the meep wouldve said what the meep said in the show. :P
@@CitricPeelAssuming pronouns is fine. Most sane trans people agree. People such as you who are online too much will disagree: now there is this thing called grass you just gotta touch.
@@SéaFid i didn't say i disagree 💀? you have no opinion that matters in an issue that doesn't regard or hurt you. You don't wanna be called "dumb" so I respect that. If I don't wanna be called "he" you can respect that too just as easily :) it's okay to assume pronouns as long as you'll use the words the person feels most comfortable with. You trying to make fun of me or your lack and incapability of being empathetic and understanding just shows that you're insensitive and should rather learn than try judging or speaking for those people, trans people, who you don't even have a clue about. thanks
I was okay with this consideration of pronouns, mainly because both the Doctor and the Meep are aliens and are therefore bound to have different values, customs and cultures with different pronouns, as mentioned by the Sixth Doctor in The Twin Dilemma, so it made sense why the Doctor asks about the Meep's pronouns in case he/she/they aren't known words on the Meep's world.
This perfectly illustrates the deeper problem, which is shocking ignorance. Never mind the politics, even the grammar is wrong. The definite article is not a pronoun; “The Meep” is a proper noun (phrase). Sigh. As propaganda, this is not even competent.
Rose is not a perfect character and that's okay. I think we can all agree she comes across as a bit over confrontational in this scene and that could be because she always has to stand up for herself at school from the bullying. Just because she's trans/NB doesnt mean the character has to be perfect in every way. Her line about "no male-presenting timelord would understand" is pure cringe though 😅
The problem isn't "trans character must be perfect", the problem is "they fucked up with this trans character by writing her poorly, she deserves better writing". The "male-presenting" line is transphobic, ironically, because "male-presenting" includes trans men as well.
ok,. as oddball as this scene comes off, The subtle joke of the meeps pronouns being 'THE meep' is pretty funny in hingsight, when you realize its because its more for megolamaniacal reasons.
its exactly this sort of crap being shoved down our throats that is putting so many people off the show now..99 percent of doctor who viewers fully support the world moving forward etc but why is it in our faces every episode??
Hello..in a world with psychic paper he should know this already if it matters and space would die if this absurdity of pronouns were of any value. It's a statement that humanity is devolving.
I haven't read the comics. Does anyone know if The Meep's gender was made clear in the source material, or was it left open and never mentioned there either? A lot of people talking about this special seem to be settling on "he," (though some are using "they.") No one seems to be reading it as female, despite the voice-actress being a woman and the character not having any obvious sex characteristics. Was it a "he" in the comics, or are people just following the Doctor's example?
It's referred to as he/him in the comics. I wouldn't read too much into the female actor the meep is described as having childish qualities and not being taken seriously, They had to use a woman to voice him as like with young boy cartoon characters they needed someone who could do the cute routine but also psychotic (I will say miriam got the balance perfect).
Exactly. This is coming from someone who identifies as gender-fluid, and is doctor-diagnosed with gender dysphoria. Russel shoehorning in “transgender awareness” or whatever the hell this scene was supposed to be, and then contradicting his own work literally moments later is so… agitating. Russell has fallen from greatness.
I have no idea why people are so bothered about The Meep using weird pronouns. The Meep is a megalomaniacal ridiculous Furby space alien FFS; The people who seem really triggered by any discussion of pronouns *aren't* David Tennant et al. here. What is it about calling people what they want to be called that makes you so angry?
The issue isn't so much as what the Meep's pronouns as the clunky shoe-horning in of this rubbish. And "what is it about calling people what they want to be called that makes you so angry" - I refuse to be complicit in lies. I will not call a man "she" or "xe", because the correct pronouns for a man are he/him.
@@WilliamSmith-mx6ze That's correct, but generally speaking, the people who ask you to call them by the correct pronouns are those for whom the wrong ones are used.
"Did you hear about Beep the Meep? He is-" "The MEEP is" "Right, The Meep is a violent alien warlord driven to madness by THE MEEP'S own sun to kill all life in the galaxy for THE MEEP'S sadistic lust for conquest"
Goid idea, but it could use some spicing up. Just to draft something up: Doctor: Alright, I'll come up with a plan to get him back to his home. Rose: Sorry, is- is he a "he"? We haven't asked, have we? - a beat. Doctor: Are you a he? The Meep: I am The Meep. I am always just "The Meep." Doctor: Alright, The Meep. I'm The Doctor, and I'm going to get you home. It's not Shakespeare, but it's a bit more natural than what we got.
think you will find it was a terrible idea, just type doctor who into anything and you can see that it was not relevant, you can take everything woke away from the episode, and it wont change anything other then the amount of viewers also, lets not forget they both put the doctor down for being a man, how do they know he is a man by their own logic? thats misgendering honestly the intellegence of these woke people is something special
most are just disappointed that they took this direction. People have been wanting David Tennate to come back for so long, and to see him belittled about forgetting to ask for pronouns. Just doesnt hit right
She does know.. He / Him works as a gender neutral word? He is mostly contained in all words to describe a being. He S(he) (he)r T(he)Y T(he)m even in titles such as "The Meep" the uses H.E. together "T(He) Meep" so yes.. calling things that have no gender a He / Him is perfectly fine. If Meep themselves felt offended by it.. then Meep should've said something. NOT YOU!
I never ever in my life watching doctor who or anything related to dr who , i had hopes when second dr was regenerated but i guess its not the 2000s anymore , sayonara
the more soyjacks in the comments that scream over this bit, the more i defend this. like personally i found this episode rather a bit *too* focused on gender identity (this bit was fine but it kinda felt a bit soapboxy), but the more transphobes mald the more i laugh tbh.
Most people aren't angry because Rose is trans etc. They're angry because the message is being handled with the competence and care of an overly drunk visitor of the cheapest pub in the world armed with a nuke instead of a pen. Later on, the episode manages to be transphobic in a cruel twist of irony precisely because of the writers' incompetence.
@@quantumvideoscz2052 i mean to be fair there is valid reason to be hesitant about the episode (Star Beast i think was the main was), since in my opinion it was a bit too...pandering, i suppose? like it kinda felt like rainbow capitalism where it was just a checklist to maximize brownie points, as opposed to simply including them like any other character or more cleverly showcasing transness in a more symbolic/clever way i suppose. however i do think alot of people are also mad because of the fact that transness was mentioned in a positive manner rather than as a joke. which was the people i was memeing about. i don't recall anything transphobic though per se but i'd love to hear why you think that as i genuinely don't know and have shit memory aswell lmao
Let's just say... Would you walk up to a trans man irl and tell him "Shame you're not a woman anymore."? That would be immensely transphobic, right? Well, the Doctor has no real control over their regeneration, maybe only subconsciously, and even that is just a fan theory. So the Doctor was a woman, then became a man, didn't consciously choose any of that, making him very much like trans men (because they also didn't choose to be trans), and then one of his best friends, Donna, tells him "Shame you're not a woman anymore." They were going for a properly misandrist moment, for some female empowerment, yet they unwittingly said something very transphobic. It's even worse since Rose joins the conversation and adds to her mother's comments, making their precious trans character... commit transphobia. If this isn't irony, then I don't know what is.@@bing_crilling8981
@@quantumvideoscz2052 ehhhhh.....you're reading to much into it. I guess it makes sense but its very much a stretch, since the doctor may have transitioned in a sense but they aren't actually fighting for their right to be seen as a man. 14 and 13 are different people, as opposed to the same person with the latter pretending and the former as himself. you can argue for it being misandrist, but I dont really think its transphobic.
I think they kept it like that because Rose has just transitioned. So, there's probably a bit of trigger or touchy subject for her. I don't think bringing up the pronouns is necessarily bad. But I do think as it is, it comes off a bit clunky. They needed a rewrite to include Rose bringing that in but perhaps in a way that is more natural but less confrontational. Like question how the doctor knows the meep is a he rather than be offended on the meep's behalf. The meep may not even care cos it's an alien.
Is it me, or is Doctor Who becoming a bit too PC? First, we have a "transwoman" arriving in the series and now he complains that the Doctor assumed he as a pronoun. Here's a question for you? What is one of the first things you notice about a person when you first meet them? ANSWER: What gender they are by how they look, how they talk and their physique. The Doctor called the Meep he because that is how he perceived the Meep to be.
so you dont respect those people lol. but dont worry, we dont wanna be in contact with you if u dont at least try to be understandable or respectful :)
@@LordColondy yes. what i got from your words was " u respect what people wanna be called so that they are comfortable, i dont have to put myself and what i understand first as long as i know that itll avoid me hurting someone... ...but if they tell me to use certain words to make them comfortable I dont have to and will not" sorry if this wasnt what u were impliyng im just tired of people who cant use simple words to make someone feel okay and who willingly decide against making those feel good - just for fun anyway-
Oof clunky dialogue. There isn’t a joke to it or anything. It’s like the narrative pauses to scold him for assuming pronouns.
There isn't a joke to it?
What did you think "I do that" was?
Oh it's because he's white
@@Theseamus2000 This was lame as fuck. Only illiterate college tankies use pronouns.
@@Theseamus2000it was not funny
What fascinates me is no one talks like this irl. Not even hyper socially concious people.
Tell me you’ve never been to a university on the US east coast without telling me you’ve never been to a university on the US east coast.
@@freakybuzz tell me you've never been to university.
@@clairestark9024 I have been to university and people introduced themselves and then proceeded to ask me what my pronouns were. In my case, it is because I have long hair and so people tend to assume I might be a trans woman. If these people met an alien species, they would probably think to ask their pronouns or what they preferred to be called.
@@Anti-CommunistCommunitarian x
😂i was called transphobic for referring to someone as a she. Because when I met them this person went by she. I have no idea what they go by now. And since we aren't friends I didnt bother to you know keep track of someone who stabbed me in the back.😅
The problem was the writing. What should have been written for Rose would have been something along the lines of "Are we sure The Meep is a 'him'?" or something along the lines of that. Would have flowed better with the scene and come across as much less insulting.
no, leaving that out entirely would have flowed better, did we ever have this problem with jack harkness? was jack harkness hated? was there ever anything people didnt like about jack harkness?
no, he got his own show, and people wanted him back because they did it right and were not pushing an agenda that no one wants
the problem was indeed the writing you are correct, the message should not have been in it to begin with, let the character speak for itself, not the delusion of its gender
It's such a minor issue. One that was likely written by a well meaning writer who just isn't that up to date on the lingo and how to address this stuff cause hes 60
@@DoctorTimelordA gay writer having a gay character constantly flirting with men and kissing them isnt "shoving it down your throat"?
Nostalgia blind moron. If Jack came out today youd be shitting your pants about the wolk.
@@DoctorTimelordyoull shit your pants when you find out what david tennant thinks of trans people
wouldn't be woke garbage enough. Put a chick in it and make it more lame!
“Are you assuming it’s pronouns?” Mate stfu it’s an alien. 🗿🗿🗿
Well, it does make sense. Aliens are not humans or earthlings biologically. So why don’t you stfu or go make your own sci fi movie with your own rules and systems! No? You won’t do that? Then shut up!
@@ulfberht4431 why did rose assume doctors pronouncs? the doctor is also an alien
Exactly. It's an alien, with no clear sex characteristics, and the other alien, who literally just changed his own gender and has been dealing with constant pronoun issues himself, made a weird assumption that he then agrees is weird. If anyone were going to notice, it would be the human who's also dealing with this problem. For once, this type of exchange makes perfect sense.
Nahhh... that might have been the intent, but the delivery is way too cringe 😬
"You cannot criticize, go make your own!" is NOT an argument. You don't need to be a chef to criticize a chef for putting an excrement in your soup.@@ulfberht4431
It's a bit heavyhanded here.
“Are you assuming this alien’s pronouns?”
I legit thought it was satire
The ironic thing is that Rose is the one who is more offensive by her own logic. They assumes an alien race would only have pronouns that they had on earth.😅
Si tienen pronombres descocidos en la tierra no tiene sentido preguntarle ¿“él”, “ella” o “elle”? Lo más normal hubiera sido preguntarle el pronombre.
Ademas crea risa involuntaria preguntar algo así en esa situación.
She never implied that
@@thunderheadcinema6743 Well, she did assume aliens give a damn about pronouns.
HA! Correct
@@thunderheadcinema6743 Then why oh why did she even think about pronouns in the first damn place?
This isn’t too bad, I just think the “you’re assuming he as a pronoun?” line is what kinda makes it weird. So much talk of pronouns nowadays that we associate “assuming pronouns” with woke shit. Had she said “you sure it’s a he?”, because it’s an alien species and they wouldn’t be sure what the differences between the male and female counterparts are in their species, it may have came across better. Or not idk, not a Doctor Who fan so what does what I say matter? 🤷♂️
I think you have a point. And it should matter regardless if you’re a fan or not. Fans are often so hellbent on gatekeeping and shunning everyone else who challenges their flawed logic or call out on their rather abrasive behaviour that frankly THEIR points don’t matter!
The actor is Trans so I'm sure there was a lot of insistence to include woke ideology bs
My exact thoughts
Thats literally not the case.
If it was a case of misgender it would of been "you're assuming its a he"
I dont mind the talk about pronouns but this just feels very forced idk
Yeah that's the point, no one talks like that unless they want to push ideology, it's completely unnatural, the point of this scene is supposed to be they don't know if this alien is male or female and they made it about identity politics.
"Oh, I do that"
That's hilarious
"It pained my two hearts"
David Tennent "Me too"
"He means that metaphorically"
I blame everyone on set for this. The writers, the directors, the actors, the cameraman, the boom mic opearator, catering, the valet, the executive assistant, the producers, everyone. This is trash. Utter trash
Nah your just a cry baby
Davies has done what the Daleks never could: he has exterminated Doctor Who.
If a caveman character talked like "Grog like stick, Grog hit you with stick" you wouldn't think twice over it even though Grog is being used in the same way that is being used here.
You only dislike it because you've consumed propaganda meant to make you dislike it, Grog would know, Grog smarter than grog looks like
@@Nick-ib3hw"If a character talked differently, you'd be fine with it because they talked differently but when this character talks differently, you don't like it because you've consumed enough propaganda where they don't talk differently."
This is the biggest strawman I've seen this year.
Man, why are people THIS offended over that? Stop being a lil girl and grow up.
Felt my body dissolve from cringe.
Your comment is cringe 👍
@@Mad_Mod1964Pronouns are cringe.
@@TheLoneGamr Then you must be cringe because you have them
@@Mad_Mod1964nah all of you liberals are utterly cringe
By what standard?@@Mad_Mod1964
Aren't these actors embarrassed at any level?
With their paycheck? No
What for?
@@BurnttBurritoOnly one man in that room is on a decent paycheck, and it isn't Rose.
@@AmelityshTVThis painfully woke and unnecessary dialogue.
Also, if you actually met an alien I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t be worrying about its pronouns.
@@That_Random_Bloke Doctor Who has always been a "woke" show. People just don't like this sort of change even though it's just polite. Also, if nothing else, aliens would definitely be something you'd ask the pronouns of. 1. It's polite and 2. How do you know what an alien is or what pronouns it goes by. Same for real people as well.
she could have just asked "why do you presume that it is a boy"
and the thing says "i am neither a boy nor a girl i am the meep"
no drama no conflict but we NEED that conflict !! twitter needs to explode with this
Twitter doesn’t need to explode with anything, this is literally a non-issue
@@penguinstudios29 yeah you are right that whole woke stuff will be a thing of the past in a few years anyway.
It didn't even need to be the girl, doctor could've gone "him. Or her? What are you again?"
@penguinstudios29 it is an issue, this first episode is permeated with it. Thankfully the second isn't that bad, and the third is actually good
@@6-dpegasus425 by “non-issue” I mean something that isn’t that serious. Exploding Twitter over “why do you assume he as a pronoun” is just being overly sensitive. It’s was one line, not the end of the world
I think I understand why this scene bothered me when I first saw it.
While it was well meaning, Rose got upset at The Doctor for assuming The Meep's pronouns even though The Meep clearly took no offense. I feel like if anyone should have corrected The Doctor, it should have been The Meep, not Rose. Or maybe have a scene where The Meep showed discomfort from being called "Him" and THEN have Rose speak up.
I'm all for respecting pronouns, but we should ASSIST in other people's fights, not start fights in their name.
I'm on the opposite side of this argument. I don't think pronouns should be "respected" in the way most people demand. They, quite literally, don't matter, and if they somehow matter to you (you being a generalisation), then you need to reevaluate what is important. In a perfect world? Sure. Pronouns should probably be respected, but we don't live in a perfect world, and nobody owes anyone anything, so it's kind of like pissing into the wind. If yours (Again, generalisation) get respected, great, but if they don't, does it actually matter? No.
@@widexawake_ From what I gathereed from reading and then rereading your comment, you opinion is "The world sucks, so fuck your feelings."
I can't even begin to explain all the issues with such a statement.
No this is just how trans people are, someone called me a “he” at a party and some trans person got upset that this person may have misgendered me even though I’m a bloke with a beard and a cock and honestly if they would have called me she I wouldn’t have cared because pronouns are stupid and don’t matter
human civilization exists because we respect each other. you can't have a truly free-for-all society, because at some point protecting your freedoms inevitably means abusing someone else's - like the power struggles of our pre-modern past, groups with different values and beliefs would inevitably and continuously battle with each other, it would be a violent and chaotic life. politeness and manners may seem pointless, but think of where we'd be without them - they are kind of a cultural glue that enables us to peacefully co-exist in a complicated and diverse society.
All of that said. If as a man you want to be called "Steve" but people insist on calling you "Tiffany", the response isn't "let people call anybody whatever they want." It's a bare basic sense of decency to just call a person by the name they prefer. All deeper healthier social relationships are built upon this platform. Because if they refuse to listen to your name, how can you rely on them for anything else? If you want to be called Steve, then people should call you Steve. The same is true with pronouns.
@@kedarguruu This is entirely false. My opinion of you should not change your opinion of yourself as your opinion of me doesn't change my opinion of myself. If someone not adhering to some arbitrary linguistic gymnastics is seen as "disrespectful" then we don't live in a "society." No one is obligated to like anyone for anyone reason, so why do people expect everyone to be nice to them, to the point where they engage in witch-hunts because people refuse to acknowledge the biological paradox of men becoming women?
I have no issue with people using any pronouns they feel comfortable with, or with anyone being "Transgender," as long as we can agree that these things are superficial fixes to deeper, psychological issues. Gender IS a binary. It can't be disputed. So why do we need to start calling Steve "Tiffany?" For the sake of one person's feelings? How does THAT make sense? Why do ~97% of the population need to conform to the demands of the ~3%? I thought we lived in a "Society?"
See, that's how ludicrous the entire situation looks when you start pulling at threads.
0:15 me asking the dog it’s pronoun
This was bad but the scene with Donna saying ‘binary’ and rose saying ‘non-binary’ made me burst into laughter 😂😂🤦♂️
I don’t mind it tbh I was to busy edging to David Tennant
Christ
Yet somehow I find this more logical than the pronoun issue.
@@nicekeyboardalan6972 they literally need christ💀💀💀
all of you need christ
I was enjoying the episode up until this point but when Rose butted in with the whole “did you just ASSUME the pronouns of an alien?!”, I just rolled my eyes. How would an alien from outer space be aware of pronouns and their significance to Earth. This felt very shoe horned in.
The MEEP don't need NO STINKING Pronouns..! I am the MEEP Mutha Farkas you Stupid Female and Whatever your Child is...! Whatever IT IS ...! Great Job RTD you played yourself🤢.
In the context of this show specifically, though, it actually does makes sense for once. The Doctor has literally just changed gender and back himself and knows first hand how annoying messed-up pronouns can be. There's nothing particularly masculine about this creature, but the Doctor defaulted to it being male, and when it's pointed out he sincerely questions why he would do that. This is something we tend to do in general as a society: if it's not explicitly feminine the "normal" is considered male. But we really shouldn't do that, and someone like Rose (or the Doctor) is more likely to notice and call it out.
...And he's not apologising to the trans person for his political incorrectness, like I heard someone suggest, the Doctor turned to Rose to say "good point." "Sorry" is this face's catchphrase; that's just him expressing his mistake before continuing.
@@hiccuphufflepuff176
Most reasonable point ever! Wish more people were as mindful and not always jumping to “duh dis is woke garbage because dis guy said pronouns and women duh!”
@@ulfberht4431 No because the line should of been "you're assuming its a he" which means is it female or male gender. We dont know its an alien. But by saying "you're assuming he as a pronoun". Opens the case of whats its preferred pronoun not its species gender.
@@ulfberht4431so many people jump to that because it is all pointless garbage
Just people looking to be wound up about something for the sake of it
If your confidence in your own identity gets shook because someone said he instead of whatever
Then youve got massive issues outsidr of the english dialect
I would go talk to a shrink instead of trying to force your agenda on others
This is noy to say im phobic of different i accept people as tbey come whether thatz trans gay/bi etc anything
I hate how he looks over at Rose and apologises. Like they’ve supposedly offended “the meep” with the wrong pronoun, yet he apologises to Rose when she points it out. Fucking victim mentality all over, really tells you who the show is pandering to.
Its called fuckign respect deepshit it's THE DOCTOR, THEYRE LITERALLY GENDERFLUID LMAOC
Yeah, decent and respectful people!
@@friendlyotaku9525
Um, LOL.
@@friendlyotaku9525 Not quite, I was hinting more towards narcissistic fools.
@@kin2955 for respecting pronouns?
if someone who died as recently as 5 or 10 years ago was resurrected they would not believe how weird things are now.
This thing has been going around for longer. 2012, I'm pretty sure Tumblr was already into identifying as celestial constellations and proclaiming self-diagnosed mental illnesses
Yes.... That's how time works. Nothing stays the same ever.
I hope this awful woke era passes soon I don't even know what's keeping it afloat, most people seem to despise it.@@twistythetiny
@@JohnSmith-it6hj Progressivism won't stop any time soon. In fact, most people are actually in favor of progressive ideas which is why it's still afloat. You think most people hate it because you're in an echo chamber.
People appreciate truth, that won't change. Most of this woke stuff is bs.@@twistythetiny
That joke is even more hilarious, if you consider that the Meep is the bad guy Ü
Bad THEY, you bigot!
I know right. If I was the Meep I'd have broken character right there and said "Nobody gives a shit! I mean Meep Meep."
Hilarious clip! Hail David Tennant! Hail to the Meep!
I kind of hate this scene
like its just such clunky dialogue
"ARE U ASSUMING THE MEEP'S PRONOUNS"
like its a cool scene to have
aliens are so much different than us
when it comes to their sex and their gender and such
its honestly an interesting topic
like alien social ethics
it is an interesting conversation to have
but they way they did it was so cringe
If you met an alien, would the first thing you worry about its pronouns? I'd be more concerned to find out if it was going to give me an anal probe like Cartman.
the cringe I just crunged bro😭
Why was this scene written?
Because Russell T Davies has to shoe horn in identity politics wherever he goes.
"my chosen pronoun is the definite article, i am the meep"
"oh i do that"
these two lines in particular feel super in character for the show, feels like a pronoun joke done right and it doesnt feel cheesy (but i know people would disagree)
I agree, the joke was great, the set up could have been better is all
The trans dude even saying he forgot to ask for pronouns is what people are mad about, why even write that into the script. They couldve just done the classic "what gender are you" since its alien and the joke woulda been the same, but they chose to add pronouns now. That in itself is a joke. A bad one
rose is a girl
didn't catch that part on my first watch but........your right hah
@BurnttBurrito what trans dude? The only guys there are doctor and Donna's husband?
It's the wording that's making me cringe. We seriously need a writers purge. Let them all go to find another job cause clearly they're not cutting it as writers
yeah for real :( it sounds mocking just like transphobes talk about trans/non binary people.
it would be really cool if a trans person would be part of the writing process, same as women, so there wouldnt be any sexist or discriminating stuff yk
Did you just assume his gender? REEEEEEEE
This is so sad
I know. I can’t believe they shot that transgender alien down.
I know! Never would of thought of dr who as a bigot, sexist, racist nazi, but i can now see he clearly is!
@@Happy_Nacho_Mystery That is the funniest comment ill ever read 😂
This is what people were afraid of when 13 came along.
The fans wouldn't have an issue with a female doctor if the female doctor was a good character. But, huh, surprise surprise, she's not! In fact this whole season is one of the most abysmal character assassinations I've ever witnessed.
What *happened* to the Man Who Regrets?
It's Dalrymple-style communist propaganda of humiliation. It's not there to persuade or convince, not to inform, but to humiliate. I'd also add that it's there to trample, insult, demoralize, provoke, anger, and to certain extents drive you insane.
You mean the person who regrets? Can't assume anymore 😮💨
Exactly! Thirteen was a waste of a character due almost entirely to Chibnall's abysmally bad show writing. 'Go woke, go broke' isn't a universal truth but good grief it happens a lot. Art is about showing, not telling. This is telling
That's not him that's why honey the Doctor healed from that do same and move on cringe edgelord
The MEEP don't need No Stinking Pronouns! I am the MEEP Muthafracka!
MEEP MEEP!
That alien thing actually responded with "my preferred pronoun is..." 🤦
I mean, why wouldn't it? Japanese - a country with a relatively strict gender binary culturally - has over 40 pronouns for various situations and contexts. Most people still have preferred pronouns in Japanese. The situation could actually be *more* convoluted in space.
@@kellyisrael895pronouns of genders ?
A deeply sad traumatised world we live in 😢
How?
Stop being a crybaby
of all things happening in this world you choose to say this about the heavy handed english lesson in a sci fi show
R.I.P DOCTOR WHO 1963 - 2017
During Capaldi era the Doctor :
-Punched a nazi being racist to his bestie
-had a black and lesbian companion
-had multiple political episode like OXYGEN
-canonise the Doctor being Genderfluid/non binary
-embrace River's pansexuality and polyamory
But yeah you will complain about politics only now fake ass 😂
cry
BIG Sad
Lol, you know the doctor was gender fluid for forever right ? Not mentioning they too use the definite article as the doctor say.
Speaking of which, you also know David Tennant, who plays the 10th doctor openly supports trans ppl he litteraly have a shirt with : leave trans kids alone you freaks, and has a trans pin of the tardis ?
I'm sure you didn't
Cry harder :3
I just came here to see whether this was actually a joke or not. It's a joke alright, but I don't think BBC knew that.
Rose: DiD yOu JuSt AsSuMe ThAt AlIeN’s GeNdEr!???!1?!!?
Rose is a trans character who probably hates being misgendered, like most other trans people. She was trying to make sure it wasn't happening to someone else
Then why is she transphobic at the end? Or did you not manage to catch how the lines "Shame you're not a woman anymore" form Donna and "No male-presenting timelord would understand" from Rose are transphobic as fuck in the context they're in? @@AmelityshTV
@quantumvideoscz2052 That's not transphobia. That's more like sexism but not to an offendable degree because it's timelord stuff
"Male-presenting" includes trans men. And no, sexism is not ok. It doesn't matter if it's humans or timelords. Also, the Doctor had been a woman mere days ago. The closest analogy we have for the Doctor's gender swap situation is a trans man. Go up to a trans guys and tell him "Shame you're not a woman anymore." Let's see if he thinks it's ok and not transphobic.
@@AmelityshTV
@quantumvideoscz2052 Trans men prefer being men. Trans women prefer being women. The Doctor does not care. They're gender fluid. Male presenting means all men. Trans and cis. While it's a dodgy line, it isn't transphobia. Transphobia is being a dick to trans people for being trans. This wasn't transphobia as the Doctor has no choice in being any gender. It's a situation that, while can be construed as a trans thing, is not a situation similar enough to any normal human circumstance
Do you remember those weird tumblr kids who would threaten to cut themselves if you didn't tag their niche personal triggers/fetishes? They run your society now.
Not even David Tennant can save the Doctor!
Just like Sir Hopkins could not save Thor
David Tennant is a pro-LGBT, trans-supporting actor. Doctor Who has always been "woke" (lgbt friendly), so... Doctor Who is saved!
@@HyrulsMusic
Cope
@@nicekeyboardalan6972 it’s true
@@82892869hi cope
"I am always The Meep" is a contradiction. Shouldn't it be "The Meep is always The Meep", as "I" is a pronoun?
No, because there is a term difference between gendered pronouns and gramatical pronouns.
Yes, technically, you'd need to run through the whole 6 forms (three persons in singular and in plural). However, gendered pronouns are not like that. The only relevant forms are the third person singular and plural, as terms like I, you, or we remain unchanged.
I is a grammatical pronoun, but not a gendered one because it doesn't change. And Julius Ceasar doesn't get a vote.
@@sorrowandsufferin924 Nobody said it has to be gendered. The Meep is always The Meep, not sometimes The Meep and sometimes I.
@@lforlight The question is one of gendered pronouns.
Grammatical pronouns make no difference. "I am always The Meep" is not a contradiction.
Pronouns serve different functions in first or third person. There is nothing contradictory about the meep using "I" in first person while also requesting others to use "the meep" in third person.
Thank you @@EmeralBookwise
Hurts my heart to see such great shows be reduced to garbage, all thanks to wokeism. RIP Dr. Who. You deserved a more graceful, honorable end.
Cry more snowflake.
I think if we watch it as satire. It might be good.
oh it's one fucking line get over it
@@Wasserstoffmelone except It's not just one line, the whole show is reduced to woke cringe central
@@WasserstoffmeloneBro, when has he ever been just one line? Where there's 1 line, there are 20 more over the course of the season. Stop accepting slop just because it may not be 100% rotted to the core
Sorry.... yes..... force feed agenda..... i mean..... story or something
Talk normal
Convienient how you all forgot that captian jack harkness kissed a man on the lips back in 2005
Convenient how you are conflating sexuality with gender ideology. They are not the same thing.
Ah that is where you are wrong my friend, we are no homophobes, we just don't like people pushing gender ideologies on others.
I think the problem for many isn't that these ideologies are involved as much as it is that they're being pushed into their faces.
Massively different things. No comparison here
It's HOW, H O W it's written. Not that there are progressive themes and messages. When will you people understand this and stop strawmanning the argument?
When Rose sees the Doctor she assumes he is a man - naughty naughty.
More concerning is that when Doctor Who says "brilliant" the second time, he sounds like Tommy Cooper 😂
The meep is so cute tbh 😔
Absolute cringe scene, does not add to the story at all.
I felt like her line delivery of "You're assuming he as a pronoun" was a bit aggressive. Its makes people like her come across as unlikeable, if she was polite about it then it wouldn't be an issue
uhhh i think i found out what bothered me too! i really like the scene, i think its funny, bute yeah Rose shouldve said it more in a nice questioning "you assume he as a pronouns :o ?" way.
the way its delivered plays more into the cards of transphobic people who take anything they can grab to put down people who just wanna be accepted.
the line delivery doesnt sound casual. she maybe couldve just asked "do you go by "he" :) ?" and the meep wouldve said what the meep said in the show.
:P
@@CitricPeelAssuming pronouns is fine. Most sane trans people agree. People such as you who are online too much will disagree: now there is this thing called grass you just gotta touch.
@@SéaFid i didn't say i disagree 💀? you have no opinion that matters in an issue that doesn't regard or hurt you.
You don't wanna be called "dumb" so I respect that. If I don't wanna be called "he" you can respect that too just as easily :) it's okay to assume pronouns as long as you'll use the words the person feels most comfortable with.
You trying to make fun of me or your lack and incapability of being empathetic and understanding just shows that you're insensitive and should rather learn than try judging or speaking for those people, trans people, who you don't even have a clue about.
thanks
Rose is presented as being an annoying woke scold, the kind of person others trying to avoid talking to.
this isnt how normal people interact
It's apparently how Time Lords interact with meeps, though.
Just so you know, the doctor and meep aren’t humans.
Twitter users
@@hiccuphufflepuff176 Nope. The Doctor didn't ask for pronouns until the transgender Rose told him.
liberals arent 'normal people' or even 'people'
0:04 meep meep
Dr. Whogivesashit
"dr why bother"
-sheldon cooper
Dr. Whoke
People are way too up in arms about this. Sure, it can come off a bit clunky, but it’s not the first time we’ve had an aliens pronouns in the show.
Not like this tho...
I was okay with this consideration of pronouns, mainly because both the Doctor and the Meep are aliens and are therefore bound to have different values, customs and cultures with different pronouns, as mentioned by the Sixth Doctor in The Twin Dilemma, so it made sense why the Doctor asks about the Meep's pronouns in case he/she/they aren't known words on the Meep's world.
Why do you people scream when asked how many genders there are?
@@Ice-tc5vn it wasnt asked how many genders exist.
Would aliens from another planet really give as much a crap about pronouns as 2010s kids off Tumblr?
I'm tired, boss.
Stupid is as stupid does, Sir.
I thought this was satire
Nope.
Testicle shrivelling 'sorry, good point'.
Ohhhh the cringe
Is this a Ricky Gervsis sketch
"My prefered pronouns are merchandising, disney, money"
This perfectly illustrates the deeper problem, which is shocking ignorance.
Never mind the politics, even the grammar is wrong. The definite article is not a pronoun; “The Meep” is a proper noun (phrase).
Sigh. As propaganda, this is not even competent.
Meep isn’t human so technically it wouldn’t be either
Is this satire, right?
It’s pretty good satire
I don’t think it is…
@@Happy_Nacho_MysteryNope, it is played for clunky pandering, but nice cope
Rose is not a perfect character and that's okay. I think we can all agree she comes across as a bit over confrontational in this scene and that could be because she always has to stand up for herself at school from the bullying. Just because she's trans/NB doesnt mean the character has to be perfect in every way.
Her line about "no male-presenting timelord would understand" is pure cringe though 😅
The problem isn't "trans character must be perfect", the problem is "they fucked up with this trans character by writing her poorly, she deserves better writing". The "male-presenting" line is transphobic, ironically, because "male-presenting" includes trans men as well.
ok,. as oddball as this scene comes off, The subtle joke of the meeps pronouns being 'THE meep' is pretty funny in hingsight, when you realize its because its more for megolamaniacal reasons.
The exact point I would switch the channel!!
its exactly this sort of crap being shoved down our throats that is putting so many people off the show now..99 percent of doctor who viewers fully support the world moving forward etc but why is it in our faces every episode??
Hello..in a world with psychic paper he should know this already if it matters and space would die if this absurdity of pronouns were of any value. It's a statement that humanity is devolving.
Im addicted to this video
as a nonbinary person, i laughed so hard when this scene came on. its just so direct and in-your-face about it and i love it in a bad way
I know right, it’s just I’m all for trans rights, but when it’s handled poorly it’s kinda embarrassing
Imagine being "nonbinary"
You need to be in an asylum
Your deeply traumatised and need help with your abuse issues
I haven't read the comics. Does anyone know if The Meep's gender was made clear in the source material, or was it left open and never mentioned there either? A lot of people talking about this special seem to be settling on "he," (though some are using "they.") No one seems to be reading it as female, despite the voice-actress being a woman and the character not having any obvious sex characteristics. Was it a "he" in the comics, or are people just following the Doctor's example?
It's referred to as he/him in the comics. I wouldn't read too much into the female actor the meep is described as having childish qualities and not being taken seriously, They had to use a woman to voice him as like with young boy cartoon characters they needed someone who could do the cute routine but also psychotic (I will say miriam got the balance perfect).
wtf
RTD was a huge fan of the show that he help to revived the show but now he's burning it to the ground.
Defo didn't need to be included - I get representation - but it has to be done appropriately and not just forced in
RTD watched the train wreck Chibnall years and thought, “Could use more gender politics”
Beep identifies as a Meep.
They dont refer to the Meep by the pronoun "the meep" for the rest of the episode.
Exactly. This is coming from someone who identifies as gender-fluid, and is doctor-diagnosed with gender dysphoria. Russel shoehorning in “transgender awareness” or whatever the hell this scene was supposed to be, and then contradicting his own work literally moments later is so… agitating. Russell has fallen from greatness.
I have no idea why people are so bothered about The Meep using weird pronouns. The Meep is a megalomaniacal ridiculous Furby space alien FFS; The people who seem really triggered by any discussion of pronouns *aren't* David Tennant et al. here. What is it about calling people what they want to be called that makes you so angry?
The issue isn't so much as what the Meep's pronouns as the clunky shoe-horning in of this rubbish.
And "what is it about calling people what they want to be called that makes you so angry" - I refuse to be complicit in lies. I will not call a man "she" or "xe", because the correct pronouns for a man are he/him.
@@WilliamSmith-mx6ze That's correct, but generally speaking, the people who ask you to call them by the correct pronouns are those for whom the wrong ones are used.
Why, just why are they doing this? Peace ✌🏻
"Did you hear about Beep the Meep? He is-"
"The MEEP is"
"Right, The Meep is a violent alien warlord driven to madness by THE MEEP'S own sun to kill all life in the galaxy for THE MEEP'S sadistic lust for conquest"
This didn't doesn't work, as the doctor has already been the moral authority.
Never in the RTD era, is the companions.
Jeezus Crimeiny, this civilization is done for...🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
It's a TV show, grow up
Goid idea, but it could use some spicing up. Just to draft something up:
Doctor: Alright, I'll come up with a plan to get him back to his home.
Rose: Sorry, is- is he a "he"? We haven't asked, have we?
- a beat.
Doctor: Are you a he?
The Meep: I am The Meep. I am always just "The Meep."
Doctor: Alright, The Meep. I'm The Doctor, and I'm going to get you home.
It's not Shakespeare, but it's a bit more natural than what we got.
*How is anything relating to transgenderism even slightly natural?? It's little more than a circus of Godless freaks. I wish you a speedy recovery.*
"Is he a "he"".
Them would never make such a mistake.
agreed @@NikHuhr
WAY more natural. Thank you. (Actually, I don’t really know. I’ve never heard a conversation like either of these. This still feels better though.)
think you will find it was a terrible idea, just type doctor who into anything and you can see that
it was not relevant, you can take everything woke away from the episode, and it wont change anything other then the amount of viewers
also, lets not forget they both put the doctor down for being a man, how do they know he is a man by their own logic? thats misgendering
honestly the intellegence of these woke people is something special
I now identify as a meep
People got mad over this for being "woke"? Give me a break! This is adorable!
It's not. It's ridiculous.
@TeamZ__
ADORABL-ACK
@@youtubegavemynameawaycuntbagsA mockery of what, Karen?
I thought this was just a funny and inconsequential scene. Honestly, it's such a silly thing to get mad about.
fr
most are just disappointed that they took this direction. People have been wanting David Tennate to come back for so long, and to see him belittled about forgetting to ask for pronouns. Just doesnt hit right
She does know.. He / Him works as a gender neutral word?
He is mostly contained in all words to describe a being.
He
S(he)
(he)r
T(he)Y
T(he)m
even in titles such as "The Meep"
the uses H.E. together "T(He) Meep"
so yes.. calling things that have no gender a He / Him is perfectly fine. If Meep themselves felt offended by it.. then Meep should've said something. NOT YOU!
A gagging reflex script change from Tennant.
Dr WhoCalledMeWhat!!!
How the mighty have fallen
I never ever in my life watching doctor who or anything related to dr who , i had hopes when second dr was regenerated but i guess its not the 2000s anymore , sayonara
the more soyjacks in the comments that scream over this bit, the more i defend this.
like personally i found this episode rather a bit *too* focused on gender identity (this bit was fine but it kinda felt a bit soapboxy), but the more transphobes mald the more i laugh tbh.
Most people aren't angry because Rose is trans etc. They're angry because the message is being handled with the competence and care of an overly drunk visitor of the cheapest pub in the world armed with a nuke instead of a pen. Later on, the episode manages to be transphobic in a cruel twist of irony precisely because of the writers' incompetence.
@@quantumvideoscz2052 i mean to be fair there is valid reason to be hesitant about the episode (Star Beast i think was the main was), since in my opinion it was a bit too...pandering, i suppose? like it kinda felt like rainbow capitalism where it was just a checklist to maximize brownie points, as opposed to simply including them like any other character or more cleverly showcasing transness in a more symbolic/clever way i suppose.
however i do think alot of people are also mad because of the fact that transness was mentioned in a positive manner rather than as a joke. which was the people i was memeing about.
i don't recall anything transphobic though per se but i'd love to hear why you think that as i genuinely don't know and have shit memory aswell lmao
Let's just say... Would you walk up to a trans man irl and tell him "Shame you're not a woman anymore."? That would be immensely transphobic, right? Well, the Doctor has no real control over their regeneration, maybe only subconsciously, and even that is just a fan theory. So the Doctor was a woman, then became a man, didn't consciously choose any of that, making him very much like trans men (because they also didn't choose to be trans), and then one of his best friends, Donna, tells him "Shame you're not a woman anymore." They were going for a properly misandrist moment, for some female empowerment, yet they unwittingly said something very transphobic. It's even worse since Rose joins the conversation and adds to her mother's comments, making their precious trans character... commit transphobia.
If this isn't irony, then I don't know what is.@@bing_crilling8981
@@quantumvideoscz2052 ehhhhh.....you're reading to much into it. I guess it makes sense but its very much a stretch, since the doctor may have transitioned in a sense but they aren't actually fighting for their right to be seen as a man. 14 and 13 are different people, as opposed to the same person with the latter pretending and the former as himself.
you can argue for it being misandrist, but I dont really think its transphobic.
Oh for God's sake.
God i can't even watch Doctor who with some annoying woke woman having a moan about pronouns
Watch Tom Baker doing his classic ""Do I have the right?" speech, and now watch this infantile drivel. So sad how far this series has fallen.
What about the Alpha Centauri?
could have been a less on the nose line from rose tbh but also dr who has always been goofy and pretty on the nose about shit like that so who cares
Deflecting every bit of criticism with "who cares" is not the way to go.
@@quantumvideoscz2052 bro didn't read the part where i also criticized it
I think they kept it like that because Rose has just transitioned. So, there's probably a bit of trigger or touchy subject for her.
I don't think bringing up the pronouns is necessarily bad. But I do think as it is, it comes off a bit clunky. They needed a rewrite to include Rose bringing that in but perhaps in a way that is more natural but less confrontational.
Like question how the doctor knows the meep is a he rather than be offended on the meep's behalf.
The meep may not even care cos it's an alien.
Him
@guyincognito6582if you're purposefully misgendering Rose/Yasmin Finney then shame on you.
"meep meep" HOURRAY!!!
Is it me, or is Doctor Who becoming a bit too PC? First, we have a "transwoman" arriving in the series and now he complains that the Doctor assumed he as a pronoun. Here's a question for you?
What is one of the first things you notice about a person when you first meet them?
ANSWER: What gender they are by how they look, how they talk and their physique.
The Doctor called the Meep he because that is how he perceived the Meep to be.
Respect other people's pronouns!
So long as we're not required to use them, sure.
MEEP MEEP MUTHAMEEPERS
AINT NOBODY CARE ABOUT YO MEEPIN’ PRONOUNS
so you dont respect those people lol. but dont worry, we dont wanna be in contact with you if u dont at least try to be understandable or respectful :)
@@CitricPeel you talking to me?
@@LordColondy yes.
what i got from your words was
" u respect what people wanna be called so that they are comfortable, i dont have to put myself and what i understand first as long as i know that itll avoid me hurting someone...
...but if they tell me to use certain words to make them comfortable I dont have to and will not"
sorry if this wasnt what u were impliyng im just tired of people who cant use simple words to make someone feel okay and who willingly decide against making those feel good - just for fun
anyway-
Pass up no opportunity for displaying gender cult correctness, however alien the context.
ME LMAOOO
The Meep is too cute 🤗
And evil. Literally. Nearly destroyed London.
@@quantumvideoscz2052 I don't care, ALL IS FORGIVEN!
You remind me of the MHA fandom...@@explore8539