Ed, I must complement you on your excellent content and presentation. I’ve been reading about WW2 and aviation since 1969 and you manage to showcase aircraft I’ve never encountered. Well done.
As an ex seaplane/floatplane bush pilot, I watched this and thought, "That's crazy!", then a few minutes later thought, " Wait! I changed my mind! That's brilliant!" Nice job Ed!
Yes, the British are truly funny people, when it comes to making cars or aircraft, and this is just more proof. However this concept is so out there yet had development been pursued it would have been very interesting. In the end, it would have been all for not because history does what history did. Always a great video !
I remember reading about the Firebrand test firing its guns during WW2. As Blackburn's factory is right next to the River Humber there is a bank between it and the river to protect the factory from flooding. To test fire the four 20 mm cannons they would lift the Firebrand's tail up to get the aircraft level then, fire at a target which was in front of the bank. After test firing one day they got a message from a rather irate barge skipper complaining about being fired on from the factory as he sailed up the river. It turned out that they had fired at the same spot so often that the cannon shells had dug a hole through the bank.
Ed, where you come up with all this brilliant but obscure stuff I don't know. And then providing so much detail as well as very informed speculation.... outstanding... as usual!
I have always liked flying boats. From the Savoia Marchetti SM-55 to the Widgeon. The Short Sunderland has always been a favorite. Great video on one of my favorite aeronautical subjets.
The 'Porcupine' was a classic for sure. But for grace and style - if a flying boat could ever be imbued with such aesthetics - has to be the Consolidated PBY Catalina.
I always liked the Grumman J2F Duck and the early Loening designs for combining the features of a floating hull and seaplane into one unit with the bonus of extra space between the main float and the upper fuselage.
That engine in the final shot is a radial, certainly not a double-twelve vulture. But thank you for a fascinating vignette on these aircraft. I’d never heard Saunders-Roe referred to as Saro , so I learnt something else. SR were certainly innovative and if their SR-A1 jet flying boat fighter was on obvious dud the SR53 interceptor was beautiful. I crossed the channel a couple of times on the then new and unparalleled SRN4 hovercraft and it’s sad the company was broken up.
yeaah but I guess we get the drift its not like Ed does this a lot unlike a certain other aircraft channel that shall go nameless *Cough -Dark Skies- Cough *
@@mikepette4422 Hi Tim, It looks like a Radial, but it isn't - The Vultures "X" design makes the position of pistons look like a radial. The engine monoblocks have disintegrated and all that is left are the pistons suspended on the crankshaft. See further pictures of the engine here - www.dingeraviation.net/b20/blackburn_b20.htm
In 1928 the aeroplane and boat-maker SE Saunders became the Sanders-Roe Company (SARO). It is sometimes assumed that the creation of SARO indicated some sort of merger with the AVRO aircraft company, but that was not the case. They were separate enterprises with the only common factor being Sir Edwin Alliott Roe who took a controlling interest in Saunders after he quit AVRO. Interestingly, in the early twenties Saunders had briefly been owned by Vickers, but they sold it off. A few years later Vickers got back into the seaplane business by buying Supermarine.
@@mikepette4422 That 'other channel', all production values and piss-poor content, is now on my black-list. Ed's shonky audio, and less polished style, is much more satisfactory...accuracy is important in documentaries!
I consider myself reasonably well informed about WW2 aircraft types. I was very wrong. I had no idea about this type. Thank you for such an excellent video, you now have a new sub!
@@EdNashsMilitaryMatters but we're not watching John Dell's channel. You found it and published it - what's the point in having great material if it stays locked in a cupboard? Publishing is important AKA sharing is caring.
Seaplanes contributed to some of the most important moments of WW2. It was a Catalina seaplane that found both Bismarck (after it sank HMS Hood) and the Akutan Zero.
Catalina, said to take off at 90 kts, cruise at 90 kts, and land at 90 kts. Famed here as the Aircraft which flew the double sunrise route, linking Australia via Ceylon, the only physical air connection between Britain and Oz.
@@dougstubbs9637 The Consolidated PBY Catalina was a superb design. My favourite 'Flying Boat' for sure. I have a model of one in 1:72 - Coastal Command livery. Anecdotal - Alas the son of the famous 'aquanaut' Jaques Couseau - Phillipe Cousteau met his demise in his own Catalina - often depicted in the Cousteau film footages... // Cousteau died in 1979, aged 38, when his PBY Catalina flying boat crashed in the Tagus river near Lisbon. The investigation of the accident was not thorough, and competing theories exist to the present day. One theory is that the aircraft simply touched down on the river too fast, causing it to flip on the water;[9] another is that the aircraft nosed over during a high-speed taxi run undertaken to check the hull for leakage and the left wing broke free, sending its engine toward the cockpit and killing Cousteau instantly. Still another theory is that the aircraft, an amphibian with fully retractable landing gear, landed on the river with the landing gear extended. All others on board survived. His son Philippe Cousteau Jr. was born six months later. // wiki refers . Two years earlier I had just missed meeting Jacques Cousteau in Naples, when my ship Ark Royal visited. Cousteau had left Naples on the PBY a couple of hours before I came off watch. But I did manage to meet his wife Simone (Phillipe's mother) and was given a guided tour of the famous 'Calypso' - I was also made an honorary member of the Cousteau Society. The Calypso had been undertaking transects for pollution in the Mediterranean. I visited the Med again, doing exactly the same research on the Greenpeace vessle - MV Sirius - A decade after Phillipe's tragic demise. The Med was not really any cleaner, though the people of Malta had done a lot to clean-up their shoreline.
Worth remembering that the flying speed record was held by several float planes in succession in the years before WW2. Prior to fully retractable undercarriages the floats were not notably worse aerodynamically than a pair of wheels on stalks.
You're truly amazing! Had we more of people like you, more people would learn of past mistakes and current problems. (Which doesn't take anything away from just enjoying the content!)
This was incredibly informative, not that your other videos aren't this one was just one of the great ones. I love it when I come away from your videos asking "What if?". Thanks!
absolutely love your channel...long a fan of oddball/insect-y aircraft thought I'd seen em all. Not even close, a new weirdo most every day thanks to you, cheers
Second time today that Blackburn's name came up. They tried new things and fate didn't smile on them. But they tried! Nice research and as always a nice presentation.
Another eye opener Ed ! I really had no idea of the Blackburn but had seen the others including the terrible Saro. And yes the retrieved engine is most definitely not a Vulture . Thanks Ed.
Have another look at that engine here (scroll down to bottom)... www.dingeraviation.net/b20/blackburn_b20.htm It is a bit of an optical illusion, with just the crankshaft and engine-liners suspended in mid-air (because all the aluminium has rotted away) and viewed from the front it looks like a radial - look at it from the side and its true nature can be seen.
BBC Antiques Roadshow today had on the son of one the aircrew who bailed out into the sea from this aircraft showing the Caterpillar Club badge his father received from the parachute makers Irvine's. Also got Goldfish club membership for spending two hours in a rubber dinghy.
Strange synergy that should come up the same week Ed posts this video - If any UK-TV-licence payers want to watch it, it is on BBC i-player: it is series 43 "Newby Hall 2" - first broadcast 18th April 2021. About 45minutes in.
Yet, Saunders-Roe did make the very first, seaplane Jet, and as a Fighter as well. That plane, flown at first in late '46, could've been an active combatant in Korea, a few years later.
Indeed, the parasol wing on a pylon design was pioneered by Dornier with their WAL designs and of course the Dornier Do 18, which saw widespread use in WW2. The Saro company actually built a huge suspended parasol wing of monospar design as a competitor to the Sunderland - The Saro A33. Worth googling pictures of it - It was one monstrous aircraft! In fact, Blackburn themselves had built a pylon parasol wing flying boat themselves, called the "Sydney" - It looked very much like the Catalina except 3 engines instead of 2 and an open tail-turret. Being 5 years before the Catalina (designed to a 1927 spec, first flight 1930) it did not benefit from the advances in Alclad stressed-skin construction and more powerful engines the Catalina could benefit from.
J Dell's sketch of a B.40 [8:32] looks a lot like a B-25 Mitchell. The Mitchell also had a cannon armament for a time. [10:28] The B.44 is 3/5 of his way towards becoming a Rufe-slaying ace. But what if he gets jumped by the Rufe's big brother, the Zeke? The USAAC had Edo develop a set of bolt on pontoons for the C-47 [Dakota, R4D]. They were huge -- the size on Mohecan war canoes, each. There were some examples still flying, Post War, but the thrust of the Pacific War developed many island airstrips, so Seaplane operations were less critical, and the Float Dakota concept was sidelined. Thanks for an interesting series.
Blackburne was NOT the first to come up with the idea of the float being able to retract to the fuselage. The first to do this was the German Ursinus floatplane fighter during World War 1.
@Ken Mrozak Yup! Oskar Ursinus - Wikipedia [Search domain en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Ursinus] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Ursinus Ursinus was born in Weißenfels and attended Technical College in Mittweida. After graduation, ... Ursinus' real passion, however, was for seaplanes, and in 1916 he designed a revolutionary seaplane fighter with retractable floats that was unfortunately destroyed before testing was complete.
Blackburn was probably the best manufacturer IN THE WORLD at producing the ugliest possible airplanes, very few of them being successful. The Beverley comes to mind, though it was loved by the crews operating the type. And who can say the Buccaneer is a handsome design? Speaking of the Napier Sabre, I believe this extraordinary piece of British engineering deserves at least one episode. This being perhaps the most complicated, yet brilliant in theory, reciprocating internal combustion engine ever conceived. Perhaps only match by the Bristol Centaurus, using the same seemingly brilliant idea of sleeve valves but being a radial looked like a marvel of simplicity in comparison.
.looks more like a Bristol Hercules....widely used by a number of different aircraft in WW2....... Great video on another fascinating, yet obscure flying machine......
It would be lovely if we could send Ed to odd places to do research, and have a bit of a jolly at the same time. I'm thinking of places like Vigna di Valle, the Italian Air Force museum, which is an old sea plane station. The collection there is.......bonkers! The scenery/climate is quite nice too. Bismark has been there - but he majored on the well known aircraft. As a sea plane station they obviously handled a lot of obscure types, and did a lot of development work...not just on aircraft - hydrofoils too. An absolute gem of a museum.
i got my older brothers air pictorial and this plane is in that ,i always thunk the saunders split like that but it were this un all along ,yrs ago i read that air pictorial
Interesting, I remember having a set of books on British, German , Italian and American fighters, bomber and flying boats from the Second World War back about 40 years ago and the Blackburn was included in the set.
Sure did, was a spotter for Warspite in the Narvik campaign directing her 15" guns onto the German destroyers. Sank at least 6 and finished one off with a bomb. Also spotter for the action off Calabria. Devised for catapult use off heavy units.
Further guise that weren't aware of the float plane Spitfires: there only 5 converted Spitfire 1 R6722, Spitfire VBs W3760, EP751 and EP754)and 1 converted from a Spitfire IX MJ892. R6722 proved to be disappointing and was quickly converted back to standard only for it to be shot down during the Battle of Britain (the pilot survived, the aircraft didn't) . It had been intended for use in Norway, but with Norway's surrender and lack of performance the idea was dropped.The Spitfire VB conversion were intended for use in the Dodecanes and unlike the Spitfire 1 conversion the performance was better the Merlin 45 with a 4-blade prop allowed a max speed of 324mph and a service ceiling of 33,400 feet. They carried the same armament as the standard Spitfire VB. They were sent to Egypy, but the last of the Dodecanes fell to the Germans before they were deployed. W3760 was struck off in January 1944 and EP751 followed in December 1944, but what happened to EP754 is not recorded in any source I have access to. MJ892 was struck off in November 1945 after becoming IIRC the fastest float plane of WW2 with a top speed of 377mph and a service ceiling of 38,000 feet. It also had the same surname t as a standard Spitfire IX. IIRC Folland was involved in the conversions of the Spitfire Vs and the Spitfire IX, but I don't know about the Spitfire 1 conversion which used floats of a Bkackburn Roc.
I like! You could always trust Brough's finest to come up with an ugly solution to your problem. And sometimes it worked wonderfully, like the Buccaneer. But not always. :-)
A well designed seaplane is not necessarily slow. Both the Sunderland and the Kawanishi Emily flying boats reached speeds that you would roughly estimate for a land based bomber of the same weight with the same engines. The Heinkel He 115 floatplane was not substantially slower than early versions of the land based He 111 bomber with roughly the same dimensions, weight and engine power.
[I have a weakness: I sort of love flying boats and floatplanes (heck: the original version of the famous Supermarine Spitfire was a floatplane!). Anyway, thanks for this.]
Hi Ed. Talk about coincidence ! Have you seen Sunday's Antiques Road Show 18th April . One of the people interviewed, his father bailed out and survived from the maiden flight of the Blackburn B20 ! The son brought in his late father's "Caterpillar " gold badge ! His father was l of the 2 who survived !
In the times before aircraft carriers were being produced en-masse and there was no such thing as mid-air refuelling, sea planes were seen as the answer for patrolling far out to sea or in far flung areas where perhaps a runway could not be easily built. It doesn't surprise me that someone attempted this idea of retracting floats to improve the performance of a float plane. I guess the idea ultimately resulted in the American Seadart of the cold war, a supersonic delta wing float plane. However that too never got into service as the first American super carriers were coming online. Credit to those brave test pilots however, flying not just a new type of plane but almost a hybrid species which no one knew the flight characteristics of. Especially the pilot who stayed at the controls to try and give the rest of the crew time to get out.
My ears heard "Blackburn may have come up with something potentially revolutionary". My brain heard "Blackburn may have come up with something potentially bat ship crazy". Bless those real ale loving, laudanum experimenters at Blackburn. I guess this one might have had some merit, but also I'm thinking a lot of moving parts to go wrong.
The bombs were carried in cells in the wings - between the engines and the fuselage, like the additional bomb cells in the Short Stirling's wings. Max load of the B20 was 4 x 500 lb bombs (although one source says 2 x 500 lb and 2 x 250 lb).
Interesting. However, the final picture (the trawler snagged wreckage) did not correspond to the earlier phot of the Vulture engine, or from what I remember of the ill-fated Vulture itself. It looked more like a radial... . But excellent work as usual. I especially like the drawn artwork depicted throughout, reminds me of my early teens, where one of my hobbies was to draw ww2 profile pictures during my school dinner break.
Interesting As Always. Just One Question Though, At 2:55 You Mention The Floatplane Variant Of The A6M. I Thought That Was A Mitsubishi Plane. I Subscribe & Love Your Work.
The Zero was produced by Mitsubishi not Nakajima, the two companies were fierce rivals with each benefiting from the rigid independence of the Japanese Army and Navy. Both services acquired their equipment independently with the Army favoring Nakajima and the Navy Mitsubishi
I know I'm late, but I wanted to comment on this statement. Mitsubishi designed the Zero and built the Zero. BUT! To relieve the Mitsubishi plant a bit (at least, that's what I thought the reason was) Nakajima started building Zero's too. On the early Zero's this is shown by the white link around the fuselage Hinumaru's and with the green over grey camo'd planes the difference is in the style of demarcation between the colors.
it seems the me that Catalina's were coming out at such a rate by 1943 G.B. finally was able to get a few thus there was no need to build british seaplanes.
Oh yes. The UK was receiving Cat's in some numbers, I believe, by 1941. IIRC, a Catalina was the first brit aircraft shot down by the Japanese, the day BEFORE Pearl Harbor!
It was designed to have four bomb cells, two in each wing between the fuselage and the engine - each capable of holding upto 500 pound bomb (2,000 bombload total).
I'm unsurprised that Blackburn would work on resolving the poor aerodynamics of seaplanes, they have some history with bad aerodynamics. (sorry, couldn't resist the joke)
![Italy's Weird & Wonderful Twin-Hull Flying Boats | Savoia-Marchetti S.55 [Aircraft Overview #39]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IWV0nJQf9eY/mqdefault.jpg)
Ed,
I must complement you on your excellent content and presentation. I’ve been reading about WW2 and aviation since 1969 and you manage to showcase aircraft I’ve never encountered. Well done.
As an ex seaplane/floatplane bush pilot, I watched this and thought, "That's crazy!", then a few minutes later thought, " Wait! I changed my mind! That's brilliant!" Nice job Ed!
Yes, the British are truly funny people, when it comes to making cars or aircraft, and this is just more proof. However this concept is so out there yet had development been pursued it would have been very interesting. In the end, it would have been all for not because history does what history did.
Always a great video !
I remember reading about the Firebrand test firing its guns during WW2. As Blackburn's factory is right next to the River Humber there is a bank between it and the river to protect the factory from flooding. To test fire the four 20 mm cannons they would lift the Firebrand's tail up to get the aircraft level then, fire at a target which was in front of the bank. After test firing one day they got a message from a rather irate barge skipper complaining about being fired on from the factory as he sailed up the river. It turned out that they had fired at the same spot so often that the cannon shells had dug a hole through the bank.
Ed, where you come up with all this brilliant but obscure stuff I don't know. And then providing so much detail as well as very informed speculation.... outstanding... as usual!
like he said in the start of that web site.
I have always liked flying boats. From the Savoia Marchetti SM-55 to the Widgeon. The Short Sunderland has always been a favorite. Great video on one of my favorite aeronautical subjets.
The 'Porcupine' was a classic for sure. But for grace and style - if a flying boat could ever be imbued with such aesthetics - has to be the Consolidated PBY Catalina.
I always liked the Grumman J2F Duck and the early Loening designs for combining the features of a floating hull and seaplane into one unit with the bonus of extra space between the main float and the upper fuselage.
The MOST BRILLIANT aircraft design I've never heard of! Thank you for producing this episode. Most interesting and educational!
That engine in the final shot is a radial, certainly not a double-twelve vulture. But thank you for a fascinating vignette on these aircraft. I’d never heard Saunders-Roe referred to as Saro , so I learnt something else. SR were certainly innovative and if their SR-A1 jet flying boat fighter was on obvious dud the SR53 interceptor was beautiful. I crossed the channel a couple of times on the then new and unparalleled SRN4 hovercraft and it’s sad the company was broken up.
yeaah but I guess we get the drift its not like Ed does this a lot unlike a certain other aircraft channel that shall go nameless *Cough -Dark Skies- Cough *
@@mikepette4422 Hi Tim, It looks like a Radial, but it isn't - The Vultures "X" design makes the position of pistons look like a radial. The engine monoblocks have disintegrated and all that is left are the pistons suspended on the crankshaft. See further pictures of the engine here - www.dingeraviation.net/b20/blackburn_b20.htm
@@johndell3642 Yes I see it now. The last couple of pictures in the link make it much clearer, thank you. I did hope Ed hadn't got it wrong!
In 1928 the aeroplane and boat-maker SE Saunders became the Sanders-Roe Company (SARO). It is sometimes assumed that the creation of SARO indicated some sort of merger with the AVRO aircraft company, but that was not the case. They were separate enterprises with the only common factor being Sir Edwin Alliott Roe who took a controlling interest in Saunders after he quit AVRO. Interestingly, in the early twenties Saunders had briefly been owned by Vickers, but they sold it off. A few years later Vickers got back into the seaplane business by buying Supermarine.
@@mikepette4422 That 'other channel', all production values and piss-poor content, is now on my black-list.
Ed's shonky audio, and less polished style, is much more satisfactory...accuracy is important in documentaries!
I consider myself reasonably well informed about WW2 aircraft types. I was very wrong. I had no idea about this type. Thank you for such an excellent video, you now have a new sub!
Third type: Waterski-planes. Like the Seadart
Amazing content on a truly interesting aviation concept. I love the detail you provide as well as the lack of sugar coating any failings.
Ed your knowledge, presentation, research given your back ground amaze me, keep up the good work kid!
All credit to John Dell for this one :)
@@EdNashsMilitaryMatters but we're not watching John Dell's channel. You found it and published it - what's the point in having great material if it stays locked in a cupboard? Publishing is important AKA sharing is caring.
Seaplanes contributed to some of the most important moments of WW2. It was a Catalina seaplane that found both Bismarck (after it sank HMS Hood) and the Akutan Zero.
Catalina, said to take off at 90 kts, cruise at 90 kts, and land at 90 kts. Famed here as the Aircraft which flew the double sunrise route, linking Australia via Ceylon, the only physical air connection between Britain and Oz.
@@dougstubbs9637 The Consolidated PBY Catalina was a superb design. My favourite 'Flying Boat' for sure. I have a model of one in 1:72 - Coastal Command livery. Anecdotal - Alas the son of the famous 'aquanaut' Jaques Couseau - Phillipe Cousteau met his demise in his own Catalina - often depicted in the Cousteau film footages...
//
Cousteau died in 1979, aged 38, when his PBY Catalina flying boat crashed in the Tagus river near Lisbon. The investigation of the accident was not thorough, and competing theories exist to the present day. One theory is that the aircraft simply touched down on the river too fast, causing it to flip on the water;[9] another is that the aircraft nosed over during a high-speed taxi run undertaken to check the hull for leakage and the left wing broke free, sending its engine toward the cockpit and killing Cousteau instantly. Still another theory is that the aircraft, an amphibian with fully retractable landing gear, landed on the river with the landing gear extended. All others on board survived. His son Philippe Cousteau Jr. was born six months later.
// wiki refers
.
Two years earlier I had just missed meeting Jacques Cousteau in Naples, when my ship Ark Royal visited. Cousteau had left Naples on the PBY a couple of hours before I came off watch. But I did manage to meet his wife Simone (Phillipe's mother) and was given a guided tour of the famous 'Calypso' - I was also made an honorary member of the Cousteau Society.
The Calypso had been undertaking transects for pollution in the Mediterranean. I visited the Med again, doing exactly the same research on the Greenpeace vessle - MV Sirius - A decade after Phillipe's tragic demise. The Med was not really any cleaner, though the people of Malta had done a lot to clean-up their shoreline.
Worth remembering that the flying speed record was held by several float planes in succession in the years before WW2. Prior to fully retractable undercarriages the floats were not notably worse aerodynamically than a pair of wheels on stalks.
You're truly amazing! Had we more of people like you, more people would learn of past mistakes and current problems. (Which doesn't take anything away from just enjoying the content!)
This was incredibly informative, not that your other videos aren't this one was just one of the great ones. I love it when I come away from your videos asking "What if?". Thanks!
Thanks. Really glad you enjoyed it.
What a fantastic IDEA ! I always thought blow up, retractable pontoons,was the answer .. but this seems far more simple solution.
Something about your videos..love them!
absolutely love your channel...long a fan of oddball/insect-y aircraft thought I'd seen em all. Not even close, a new weirdo most every day thanks to you, cheers
I love your channel. I cant get enough of obscure aircraft history!!!
Second time today that Blackburn's name came up. They tried new things and fate didn't smile on them. But they tried! Nice research and as always a nice presentation.
Again an extremly interesting topic on WW2 that even for a WW2 aviation buff is totaly new. Wow!
Always enjoy your show! Learn something I did not know everytime!!! Now I'm watching for your next offering!!!! Great job!!!!!
Another eye opener Ed ! I really had no idea of the Blackburn but had seen the others including the terrible Saro. And yes the retrieved engine is most definitely not a Vulture . Thanks Ed.
Have another look at that engine here (scroll down to bottom)... www.dingeraviation.net/b20/blackburn_b20.htm It is a bit of an optical illusion, with just the crankshaft and engine-liners suspended in mid-air (because all the aluminium has rotted away) and viewed from the front it looks like a radial - look at it from the side and its true nature can be seen.
The Saro was known as "The Sinking Pig"
Quality as always. Thanks Ed.
My family and I took a round trip on a Sykorsky VS 44 to Catalina island California in 1962.
BBC Antiques Roadshow today had on the son of one the aircrew who bailed out into the sea from this aircraft showing the Caterpillar Club badge his father received from the parachute makers Irvine's. Also got Goldfish club membership for spending two hours in a rubber dinghy.
Strange synergy that should come up the same week Ed posts this video - If any UK-TV-licence payers want to watch it, it is on BBC i-player: it is series 43 "Newby Hall 2" - first broadcast 18th April 2021. About 45minutes in.
Yet, Saunders-Roe did make the very first, seaplane Jet, and as a Fighter as well. That plane, flown at first in late '46, could've been an active combatant in Korea, a few years later.
Excellent Ed... Highly watchable.
Much enjoying your videos, Ed.
The parasol wing on the American PBY had accomplished the same goals without the complexity of the retractable haul.
Indeed, the parasol wing on a pylon design was pioneered by Dornier with their WAL designs and of course the Dornier Do 18, which saw widespread use in WW2. The Saro company actually built a huge suspended parasol wing of monospar design as a competitor to the Sunderland - The Saro A33. Worth googling pictures of it - It was one monstrous aircraft! In fact, Blackburn themselves had built a pylon parasol wing flying boat themselves, called the "Sydney" - It looked very much like the Catalina except 3 engines instead of 2 and an open tail-turret. Being 5 years before the Catalina (designed to a 1927 spec, first flight 1930) it did not benefit from the advances in Alclad stressed-skin construction and more powerful engines the Catalina could benefit from.
Jeffrey Quill found the floatplane Spitfire remarkably sprightly and manoeuvrable despite it 'swan with wellies' appearance.
I have a bit from Jeffrey Quill on thursday's coming video.
those Short seaplanes are beautiful machines and loved to own one.
Imagine what might have been if Blackburn, Brewster, and Blohm & Voss had collaborated on an aircraft.
It truly doesn't bear thinking about! 😂
J Dell's sketch of a B.40 [8:32] looks a lot like a B-25 Mitchell. The Mitchell also had a cannon armament for a time. [10:28] The B.44 is 3/5 of his way towards becoming a Rufe-slaying ace. But what if he gets jumped by the Rufe's big brother, the Zeke? The USAAC had Edo develop a set of bolt on pontoons for the C-47 [Dakota, R4D]. They were huge -- the size on Mohecan war canoes, each. There were some examples still flying, Post War, but the thrust of the Pacific War developed many island airstrips, so Seaplane operations were less critical, and the Float Dakota concept was sidelined.
Thanks for an interesting series.
That would be a fantastic subject for a RC model builder. A real shame the concept never got a proper chance.
i was just thinking the same thing. They would be amazing as RC planes.
Another fascinating history video!
Blackburne was NOT the first to come up with the idea of the float being able to retract to the fuselage. The first to do this was the German Ursinus floatplane fighter during World War 1.
@Ken Mrozak Yup!
Oskar Ursinus - Wikipedia
[Search domain en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Ursinus] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Ursinus
Ursinus was born in Weißenfels and attended Technical College in Mittweida. After graduation, ... Ursinus' real passion, however, was for seaplanes, and in 1916 he designed a revolutionary seaplane fighter with retractable floats that was unfortunately destroyed before testing was complete.
@@deltavee2 It was also VERY fast for 1916-1917 at 124 MPH
Fascinating, never heard of this design before. Thanks for the info.
I think you are correct I recall an article in airpower magazine that covered the subject back in the 1990s
Correct, the Gotha WD 10:
flyingmachines.ru/Site2/Crafts/Craft25793.htm
I'm guessing someone at Consolidated caught wind of the B-20 and added the folding tip floats to the Catalina.
I love this. Obscure and fascinating aircraft brought to life👍 Have a 🍺😀
Blackburn was probably the best manufacturer IN THE WORLD at producing the ugliest possible airplanes, very few of them being successful. The Beverley comes to mind, though it was loved by the crews operating the type. And who can say the Buccaneer is a handsome design? Speaking of the Napier Sabre, I believe this extraordinary piece of British engineering deserves at least one episode. This being perhaps the most complicated, yet brilliant in theory, reciprocating internal combustion engine ever conceived. Perhaps only match by the Bristol Centaurus, using the same seemingly brilliant idea of sleeve valves but being a radial looked like a marvel of simplicity in comparison.
That recovered engine looks more like a Centaurus than a Vulture.
It certainly isn't a Vulture.
Correct me if im wrong, but the Vulture was a V-engine, wasn't it?
.looks more like a Bristol Hercules....widely used by a number of different aircraft in WW2.......
Great video on another fascinating, yet obscure flying machine......
@@mikearmstrong8483 Vulture engine was a double V. Like an X, 24 cylinder.
@@mikearmstrong8483 Vulture was a X. It was based on two Rolls Royce Peregrines connected at the crank case bottoms.
At 6:02, why does the plane have both British and German markings?
The sarcasm is awesome!!
It would be lovely if we could send Ed to odd places to do research, and have a bit of a jolly at the same time.
I'm thinking of places like Vigna di Valle, the Italian Air Force museum, which is an old sea plane station.
The collection there is.......bonkers! The scenery/climate is quite nice too.
Bismark has been there - but he majored on the well known aircraft.
As a sea plane station they obviously handled a lot of obscure types, and did a lot of development work...not just on aircraft - hydrofoils too.
An absolute gem of a museum.
If I get the chance, I'll check it out!
i got my older brothers air pictorial and this plane is in that ,i always thunk the saunders split like that but it were this un all along ,yrs ago i read that air pictorial
I think that could be interesting if you introduce Piaggio-pegna PC.7 that couldn't make for the Schneider Trophy in 1929.
Blackburn and miles were the garage tinkerers of aviation they tested a lot of concepts.
If not for a messy tift with Japan a deal may have been struck to acquire the Emily or the Mavis perhaps.
Thx for the video. The auto-scripting got the name of that lemon from Saro right, appearing as sorrow. Over 50% crashed, what a killer!!
Interesting, I remember having a set of books on British, German , Italian and American fighters, bomber and flying boats from the Second World War back about 40 years ago and the Blackburn was included in the set.
Omg... how I never saw this crazy thing...
A Stringbag on floats. I'd bet that had sparkling performance.
Sure did, was a spotter for Warspite in the Narvik campaign directing her 15" guns onto the German destroyers. Sank at least 6 and finished one off with a bomb. Also spotter for the action off Calabria. Devised for catapult use off heavy units.
Further guise that weren't aware of the float plane Spitfires: there only 5 converted Spitfire 1 R6722, Spitfire VBs W3760, EP751 and EP754)and 1 converted from a Spitfire IX MJ892. R6722 proved to be disappointing and was quickly converted back to standard only for it to be shot down during the Battle of Britain (the pilot survived, the aircraft didn't) . It had been intended for use in Norway, but with Norway's surrender and lack of performance the idea was dropped.The Spitfire VB conversion were intended for use in the Dodecanes and unlike the Spitfire 1 conversion the performance was better the Merlin 45 with a 4-blade prop allowed a max speed of 324mph and a service ceiling of 33,400 feet. They carried the same armament as the standard Spitfire VB. They were sent to Egypy, but the last of the Dodecanes fell to the Germans before they were deployed. W3760 was struck off in January 1944 and EP751 followed in December 1944, but what happened to EP754 is not recorded in any source I have access to. MJ892 was struck off in November 1945 after becoming IIRC the fastest float plane of WW2 with a top speed of 377mph and a service ceiling of 38,000 feet. It also had the same surname t as a standard Spitfire IX. IIRC Folland was involved in the conversions of the Spitfire Vs and the Spitfire IX, but I don't know about the Spitfire 1 conversion which used floats of a Bkackburn Roc.
I like! You could always trust Brough's finest to come up with an ugly solution to your problem. And sometimes it worked wonderfully, like the Buccaneer. But not always. :-)
A well designed seaplane is not necessarily slow.
Both the Sunderland and the Kawanishi Emily flying boats reached speeds that you would roughly estimate for a land based bomber of the same weight with the same engines.
The Heinkel He 115 floatplane was not substantially slower than early versions of the land based He 111 bomber with roughly the same dimensions, weight and engine power.
thanks - had never heard of these seaplanes
Supermarin spite fire started out as afloat plane which won the schnieder trophy.?
They were a solid part of the Spitfire's pedigree, but were completely different designs.
The Merlin engine was descended from the plane and that was just about it. Float equiped Spitfires were however built.
Then there is also Convair F2Y Sea Dart, bid of a mix between this concept and flying boat. A supersonic sea jet plane fighter.
[I have a weakness: I sort of love flying boats and floatplanes (heck: the original version of the famous Supermarine Spitfire was a floatplane!). Anyway, thanks for this.]
Gotta say that the B44 has got to be one of the more obscure aircraft that I've seen, mostly because it looks like a pregnant Seafire.
The Sabre was a good engine once the teething problems were sorted
Hi Ed. Talk about coincidence ! Have you seen Sunday's Antiques Road Show 18th April . One of the people interviewed, his father bailed out and survived from the maiden flight of the Blackburn B20 ! The son brought in his late father's "Caterpillar " gold badge ! His father was l of the 2 who survived !
Lol a number of people have told me. Alas, I'm not currently in the UK
Hello, I have a request, nothing but aircraft guns& cannons, you could make many video just on this topics with intereste
Interesting idea!
In the times before aircraft carriers were being produced en-masse and there was no such thing as mid-air refuelling, sea planes were seen as the answer for patrolling far out to sea or in far flung areas where perhaps a runway could not be easily built. It doesn't surprise me that someone attempted this idea of retracting floats to improve the performance of a float plane. I guess the idea ultimately resulted in the American Seadart of the cold war, a supersonic delta wing float plane. However that too never got into service as the first American super carriers were coming online. Credit to those brave test pilots however, flying not just a new type of plane but almost a hybrid species which no one knew the flight characteristics of. Especially the pilot who stayed at the controls to try and give the rest of the crew time to get out.
Wow. Good show!
Excellent !!!
Thank you
In truth, Seaplanes/floatplanes still serve a niche purpose even today, especially in remote areas.
Intriguing stuff, ^oo^
Comparative range with contemporaries?
great video well narrated
My ears heard "Blackburn may have come up with something potentially revolutionary".
My brain heard "Blackburn may have come up with something potentially bat ship crazy".
Bless those real ale loving, laudanum experimenters at Blackburn. I guess this one might have had some merit, but also I'm thinking a lot of moving parts to go wrong.
That sounds intriguing. A retractable float hulled machine, with a bombing capability. Wonder how that worked?
The bombs were carried in cells in the wings - between the engines and the fuselage, like the additional bomb cells in the Short Stirling's wings. Max load of the B20 was 4 x 500 lb bombs (although one source says 2 x 500 lb and 2 x 250 lb).
@@johndell3642 Thank you for the information.
Similar to Convair's Sea Dart but much earlier-- --
Interesting. However, the final picture (the trawler snagged wreckage) did not correspond to the earlier phot of the Vulture engine, or from what I remember of the ill-fated Vulture itself. It looked more like a radial...
.
But excellent work as usual. I especially like the drawn artwork depicted throughout, reminds me of my early teens, where one of my hobbies was to draw ww2 profile pictures during my school dinner break.
JD responded to the engine business earlier. Think he said it is just the partial remains, which makes it look like a radial.
Interesting As Always. Just One Question Though, At 2:55 You Mention The Floatplane Variant Of The A6M. I Thought That Was A Mitsubishi Plane. I Subscribe & Love Your Work.
Surprised me too! It was a variant of the Mitsubishi a6, but built by nakajima!
@@EdNashsMilitaryMatters Wow, See, That's Why You Do The Best Aviation Documentaries! Thanks, Ed.
Wow! talk about ingenuity. Such potential, if only the selection of right engine to airframe and clear MOD/RAF requirements 🤔 earlier.
i just read your book, absolutely fantastic stuff, do you have any suggestions for similar books?
Glad you liked it :)
I havent read any of the other accounts, I'll admit.
The Zero was produced by Mitsubishi not Nakajima, the two companies were fierce rivals with each benefiting from the rigid independence of the Japanese Army and Navy. Both services acquired their equipment independently with the Army favoring Nakajima and the Navy Mitsubishi
Nakajima built the "Rufe".
I know I'm late, but I wanted to comment on this statement. Mitsubishi designed the Zero and built the Zero. BUT! To relieve the Mitsubishi plant a bit (at least, that's what I thought the reason was) Nakajima started building Zero's too. On the early Zero's this is shown by the white link around the fuselage Hinumaru's and with the green over grey camo'd planes the difference is in the style of demarcation between the colors.
it seems the me that Catalina's were coming out at such a rate by 1943 G.B. finally was able to get a few thus there was no need to build british seaplanes.
Oh yes. The UK was receiving Cat's in some numbers, I believe, by 1941. IIRC, a Catalina was the first brit aircraft shot down by the Japanese, the day BEFORE Pearl Harbor!
@@EdNashsMilitaryMatters wow...I did not know that.
It allways puzled me why retractable floating gear never became a thing 🤔
Great job again! Did Blackburn ever build a successful plane?
I think the Buccaneer did ok !!!
Didn't Martin build a prototype jet powered flying boat, the P7M?
Beriev in the Soviet times had a number of jet amphibian ai4c4aft that reached service status.
Indeed they did. There was also the British Saro SRA1 jet flying-boat fighter en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saunders-Roe_SR.A/1
Looks like a chunky British cousin of the P-40 at 10:29...
They say that there is as amphibious C130 in the works .
The first plane that made me go WHAT?!
Shame the concept didn’t work out, it had potential.
That last picture of an engine being fished up most certainly ISNT a Vulture!
John Dell addresses this in earlier comments. It's the remaining parts that aren't corroded away.
When an aircraft company's name is pronounced "Sorrow", you should expect trouble. Ditto for an engine named "Vulture".
So, if the idea was for a patrol bomber, where does the bomb bay go?
Ah, never mind. It might have used sliding retractable bomb racks like the Short Sunderland.
It was designed to have four bomb cells, two in each wing between the fuselage and the engine - each capable of holding upto 500 pound bomb (2,000 bombload total).
I'm unsurprised that Blackburn would work on resolving the poor aerodynamics of seaplanes, they have some history with bad aerodynamics. (sorry, couldn't resist the joke)
I know it's been missing for some time but I want to know: why did the outro disappear?
Few people watched it, as soon as an outer starts, people switch off
@@EdNashsMilitaryMatters thanks for the answer Ed!
No music. Aaaaaah.
4:16 Wow, that's pretty harsh coming from you. You hardly ever refer to an aircraft like that. It must have been really bad.
Yep, the Lerwick was famously terrible. I have to get around to it one day.
@@EdNashsMilitaryMatters look forward to it. Thanks for all the great videos.
At the risk of repetition, it's Lerrick not Ler-wick.
If only Blackburn had produced this rather than the utterly terrible Skua and Roc.
You cover a lot of cool planes not spoken about
Top secret historically wasn't a British classification due to the bad grammar, the highest was "most secret"