The Rogožarski IKZ / IK-3; Yugoslav Surprise
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- Опубликовано: 4 авг 2022
- Little remembered, the Rogožarski IKZ (IK-3) was a very efficient design and a match for the fighters built by other countries at the start of World War Two.
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Decent looking fighter with credited victories over German planes. That said, the designers were great.
I first became aware of this when I was a kid. Definitely one of the better-looking planes of the period.
A lot of things where great in Kingdom of Yugoslavia, untill yugoslav comunists didnt arrive.
@@predragvukovic357: “ Сјајно”? Трула творевина , са ТОТАЛНО Корумпираним Генералштабом , од Владајуће Династије , једино Принц Ђорђе Карађорђевић је заслуживао свако ПОШТОВАЊЕ ! “ Чешање” о Војску ( Читај: ЛОПОВЛУК) тј. њено опремање и снабдевање је било скоро подигнуто на ниво Институције . Немачка Национална мањина у Војводини је била листом Нацистички настројена ( Младе Швабе из Војводине су ишли да служе у Вермахту) . Путнички авиони “ Луфтханзе” су прелетајући Војводину , избацивали пошиљке наоружања домаћим Швабама ! 1938 , Домаћи Издајници су почели да имитирају Хитлера ( Стојадиновић и његови “ Браонкошуљаши”) . О израбљивању радника бих могао да напишем бар 100 страна !
Lovely to see you cover planes from the balkans. There was a pedigree of aerospace tech in Yugoslavia. Some great planes.
Reminds me of the Mig-1. Did the Russians copy it?
And they bravely fought the German invasion using their own Emils!
YU used the Bf-109Emil and the Hurricane, too.. But even the LVT-1 project was last seen in combat over Kosovo.. It was a "Hurrischmitt", since YU had both and wanted to test the DB-601 engine on the Hurricane hence, a monster was born
@@beyondrecall9446 Great i have no idea!
It reminded me of the "messerspit"...a captured spitfire with a Daimler Benz engine
Not only it became a frankenplane, but it flew faster & higher than spitfire and 109. Check out Mark Felton's channel about the plane
Glad to see the IK-3 finally get its rightful place among this channel's exotics and oddities. Nice and concise, as always.
However, a few old myths have crept into Your video that I feel the need to clarify.
1) It was never named IK-Z. IK-3 (three) is the only correct designation (as proved recently by analyzing the typewriter letters on authentic factory documents - turns out there's a difference in number '3' and the cyrillic 'З' ('Z') typewriter keys, so 'IK-Z' was 100% surely ruled out).
2) The 'combined initials of the authors' hypothesis also makes no sense - implying the surname of one (Ilić), name of the second (Kosta) and then the surname again of the third (Zrnić) were just mooshed together. Rogožarski IK-3 was simply a design next in line after Ikarus IK-2, thus keping the 'IK' part despite not being produced by the Ikarus factory as its gull-wing ancestor. Although not included in the new fighter abbreviation, Zrnić was compensated adequately, and showed no sign of dissatisfaction.
3) Although being fully comparable in performance to contemporary foreign fighters and flown by undoubtedly skilled and motivated airmen, the IK-3 had a serious design flaw - it was exceptionally poorly suited to mass production. You can compare total man-hours to build a single Bf 109E (9,000), Hurricane Mk.I (10,300), Spitfire Mk.I (15,200) to IK-3's STAGGERING 27,500 man-hours! This (combined with inability to obtain more crucial parts from abroad) really explains why there were only 13 built.
4) Luftwaffe had superiority in numbers, combat experience and - tracer rounds. These were not issued to Yugoslav crews, hampering their aiming performance significantly.
5) The few aircraft surviving April war were not burned by their crews. Having no heart to do it, they issued that order to the ground personnel.
For a truly in-depth look, I recommend the latest Kagero publication on the type.
Regards,
Aleksandar.
Well thank you for the clarification. But how are the names of the three guys pronounced if I may ask?
@@jehoiakimelidoronila5450Ed did a fairly good job pronouncing them for a non Serbian-speaker .
Ed thank you very much for nice and very accurate tribute to IK-3. I appreciate your effort and research about my favourite Airplane and the biggest aviation pride of us Yugoslavs.
My humble contribution to IK-3:
1) Name is IK-3, three. Definitely. Will explain further down in comment
2) It is not copy of any other Airplane but it was influenced by few designs. French, English and Czechoslovakian.
3) IK-3 was not built in numbers not only because of start of II World War but also because off inability of Yugoslav industry to achieve capacities and industrial level of production. Which was addressed successfully later in S-49 production.
4) In April 1941 over Belgrade odds were impossible for RYAF. Never more than 30 various aircraft (IK-3, Hurricane and Me-109) were available at the same time to confront more than 300 Luftwaffe aircraft.
5) S-49 is updated IK-3 particularly S-49C and it can be seen one S-49C in Belgrade Aviation Museum at Belgrade Airport.
6) During the War all documentation about IK-3 was hidden in few places and one of places was building were I was living in 80s. One of leading craftsman in Rogožarski factory had apartment in building so documents were hidden there until after the War. I had privilege to talk to Gentleman and listen to the first hand history of IK-3. He always used IK-3 as name so letter Z is out of question as even possibility.
3:57 "When an MS. 406 and a Hawker Hurricane become good, *GOOD* friends..." 😏
Friends with benefits ofcourse
Thanks Ed! I am glad this got moved up the list. Proud to support you and your quality work on Patreon!
More than welcome.
I can´t afford to support anybody, but he definelty deserves it. YT´s policy regarding the adds is outrageous. A small mishap and the video is demonetized.
@@LeopardIL2 you choose not to .. that’s fine , just don’t say you can’t.
If you ever get the chance, try to grab a copy of Christopher Shores' 'Air War for Yugoslavia, Greece and Crete, 1940-41'. It's bloody amazing and has a great section about the German invasion of Yugoslavia.
Amazing guerilla war that was.
You did a stand-out job with the Slavic names Ed. Well done.
Thanks, this aircraft has long been a favourite of mine.
I’ve never seen before a photo of IK-3 with Luftwaffe markings, just have heard of. Awesome job, Man!!
If you ever do a video on most photogenic aircraft designers of all time, I think you should include Zrnic.
Your apology is not in place, mainly because your pronounciation of Serbian names is awesome
Also thanks for this video, I've been waiting for it for a while.
First time I hear about this plane. And it doesn't happen often to me.
Really interesting design and history. There isn't too much coverage of 'small nations' aviation. Thank you!
This is one of the obscure planes on the game IL2 Sturmovik that I like to fly.
Good video,keep em coming....
If it's in the Battle of Stalingrad series as an extra, I see a purchase coming up later today...
Love that game need to get it set up again
Ditto. I remember it from IL2 as well. Nice history. Cool to know it acquitted itself well in actual combat.
1:15 Wow! What a beautiful looking aircraft. The early 30's style streamlining is stunningly pleasant. Cool plane, interesting video. Thanks for posting this up. Nice to know there are still planes for me to learn about.
First learned of this one in a book by Enzo Angelucci. Glad to see you doing a video on it.
Hi Ed, again very educational. No wonder she remminds me of the MS406, they used the same engine.
Cheers!
Great video, thanks - love learning about these more obscure aircraft, and indeed, quite an impressive one at that.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS VIDEO!!!! :'D
Very interesting, As always. Thanks.
Awesome video, Ed.
This is the most informative video I’ve watched on the IK-3! Thanks again. 😉
Nice video, great presentation.
Love these vids you do about these aircraft I've never seen before. 👍
Love the looks of the little Rogo. Actually a Yugo Hurricane.
So true, mate!
🙏🙏
Fascinating. And what an interesting force the RYAF was... 109's AND Hurricanes!
Do-17k-s, SM79s and Bristol Blenheim Mk Is :)
She was a looker!
Lol mate, it's the IK-3 (three), the number, since its 3rd model they made 😁 Anyway, great video 😊
P.S. It's not Z as you called it. Trust me, I'm from Belgrade Serbia and we never called it like that. It's just that people mix number 3 and cyrillic Z, as you said, since they are extremely similar.
Also, great pronouncing Rogožarski 👍😁
I bow to you expertise :D
I have been interested in learning about this aircraft for a very long time.
Names could be Croatian names could be Serbian names could be Slovenian don't worry about butchering them because this channel is awesome and the information always kicks ass!!!
The whole poor country got butchered. Twice. We won't get upset about butchering of a few names.
Hi Ed, great video, as always! Thank you! As a suggestion for a future video have a look to the Swiss FAA P-16. A very intersting ground attack aircraft. The wing design was copied and used by the LearJet company.
Love your videos, and love learning about the aircraft you select! Just an after thought, the abbreviation for kilometres per hour is km/h not kp/h.
Nice piece of kit.
The leaps and bounds manned flight has made is remarkable wouldn't be nice if all that brain power went towards everything else. that IK3 did resemble the ole Hurricane in a lot ways
what's wrong with using brain power to master aviation?
@@SoloRenegade I think he means he wishes people would apply themselves like that twords everything.
@@154Kilroy that I can agree with. You may be right now that I read it again.
@@SoloRenegade not one thing that comes to mind the question was that same energy being used elsewhere if you will
Would love a talk on the DB engines hurricane
They named their aircraft company Ikarus? Really? Did they only read the first half of the story or something?
My first thought.
They had at least 10 Different aircraft manufacturers in serbia alone, sadly commies destroyed it all
@@vanjat2850 Which were those? the commies at least had made an industry, a prosperous country, with the best international relations in the world..And at least the commies liberated the country from within, is there any other resistance group in Europe that did that? So the "commies" actually kept the soviet commies from occupying the country..
@@beyondrecall9446 sorry I forgot all the companies, I will try to find a list, I have tt somewhere in my computer.
Yugoslavia was prosperous only on paper. It's economy was built on loans.
Commies didn't do shit for kicking the germans out, RKKA kicked them out and commies just took over, killing peasents and aristocracy alike. I have ti agree that they had a good foreign policy tho.
@@vanjat2850 What a shit load of chetnik lies
How does ed not have a million subs
as for the pronunciation, I reckon a job as a translator for the UN!!!🤣🤣🤣 Top report dude! really enjoy these unknown warriors.
Thanks Ed . So close but no cigar !!! Which makes a pleasant change as they normally don't get that far ! 😂😂
Clever design!
Although the aircraft and it's developers had no direct link with Hawker I've often described this aircraft as the Hurrricane's 'Kissing Cousin'. The photo at 4:04 really lends weight to the idea..
Yessss!
Hey Ed . Recently got some new shorts coming out of Ukraine about a Russian 120mm Towed Gun Mortar/combined Howitzer called Howitzer 2B16 Nona-K . I don't know how exactly it's supposed to fire mortar rounds but, its a towed Variant of 2S9 Nona Self propelled mortar.
Excellent coverage of an excellent aircraft, if not widely known outside the Balkans. Being a complete aviation nut, I had previously read everything I could find about this plane, as well as some of the other great Balkan aircraft. Thanks for filling in some of the gaps in my knowledge.😉
did you, during your research, discover if there is any surviving photo of the LVT-1?
@@beyondrecall9446 As far as I know, there was only one LVT-1 ever built, which mated a DB 600 engine to a Hawker Hurricane airframe. The results were so spectacular that the engineers at Rogozarski wanted all further versions of the IK3 to have DB 600 engines (which also allowed for the mounting of a motor cannon) but steadily worsening relations between Yugoslavia and Germany meant they couldn't get the preferred engines. I don't know of any surviving photographs, unfortunately, but there are a great set of drawings available via War Thunder's data sheets.
I have to say that the Hurricane (one of my all-time favourite aircraft, by the way) looks absolutely bizarre with a Daimler-Benz inverted V-12 engine! I know the Germans experimented with putting Merlin engines in bf-109's and DB 600 engines in various captured Spitfires (hence the legendary MesserSpit), but neither of those beasts look as weird to my eyes as a Hurricane with a DB 600 engine!🤣
I'd give anything to see one in real life, though!
it is not called IK ZED but IK-3 THREE!
Nice looking bird.
Love the videos. And guys, if you haven’t read Ed Nash’s book on his experiences as a sniper with the Kurds against ISIL, buy it.
Consider it a payment for Ed’s awesome videos.
Ed, you need to turn your book into a movie.
Lol thank you.
Not my call on the movie :D
@@EdNashsMilitaryMatters mate if I had the money I would have given you an offer to buy the movie rights for your book.
I bought audio off Audible and I’ve often played it before going to sleep. That part about the “Sniper Mode Switch” was crackup.
And the part where your mate shat himself in combat…
@@bronsonperich9430 If I was ever in combat, I'd want Kevlar diapers. And wouldn't be a bit ashamed of it, either.
@@davidb6576 same!
Lol EVERYTIME he would need to take a dump!
Looks like a Hurricane as well
There was one RYuAF project that might interest you. It is LVT.1 a Hawker Hurricane with DB.601A engine.
I've thought about covering it before, but just not enough to go on that I could find. Happy to take any advice on where to find more info.
Great video again Ed! Had no idea about this aircraft!
Have you ever looked into the BVP 170? It sure is something different!
You know I hadnt! What an oddball! Not sure there is enough on it for a video, but I'll have a dig.
@@EdNashsMilitaryMatters Yeah, I'm not sure it was ever built or flown, but I did see some crazy human made a radio controlled model of it, and it worked pretty well!
Appears to have just been a paper design.
Using the pronunciation "zee" for the last letter of the alphabet is very archaic in English, at least that spoken in the UK.
Its not just having a good idea. EVERYBODY gets those, but it's having a good idea multiplied by knowing the right people multiplied by it being at the right time. That is how to calculate the odds of such a thing happening. I.E.: not that often.
Nice that somebody talks about this plane and pretty unfamiliar and somewhat obscure designs, especially coming from a country not widely renown for industrial and scientific achievements at that time.
After WW2, in early '50s Yugoslavia built a series of experimental, very light jets. They were limited by technology and the availability of the engines. Remember, Yugoslavia was very isolated at the time, a communist country which broke up wuth Soviet Union. The designs like Ikarus 451, 452 and 453 series. All a bit odd, but eventually they led to the series production of their first jet trainer, Soko G-2 Galeb, which was actually a very good plane for it's purpose and the era.
On this aircraft Milislav Semiz had 4 kills, Todor Gogic 3 kills, Dusan Vujicic 3 kills, Savo Poljanec 2 kills Dusan Borcic 2 Kills, Eduard Banfic 1 kill, Dragan Bojovic 1 Kill
Those were claims and need to be slashed by 2 to get a more accurate picture.
@@VersusARCHbrooo 😂😂
12 fighters against 234 bombers and 120 fighters.
12 airplanes of which 6 were in service.
Holly Maloney!!§#!
Yes, they had lot's of targets.
A few dozen Yugoslav Bf-109 es also confronted the Germans.
🙏
I was always of the opinion that the IK-3 resembled the D.520 and now I know why.
It resembles the MS406, not the D520.
@@thhseeking At most the rear fuselage looks like the M.S.406, but the front looks more like that of a D.520.
So the compromise would be that it incorporates design cues from both aircraft.
And wings resemble the Hurricane 😂
Zee, 3? Z? You read it wrong! It was a Zed, looks like a 3, mun!!! 😁😁😁
Um, pretty sure he has done more mining on that than you. That's why we're here after all 😁
@@derrickstorm6976 He was wrong in this case
Z O V A
3:57 This looks a hell of a lot like a Hurricane ...
It looks like a mix between a M.S 406 and a yak 1
Was Icarus a good name for an aircraft manufacturing company?
well, he symbolizes high-flying ambition so, having a few experimental planes and jets, I don't think so
The photo at 10:00 looks like it has been doctored a bit- particularly the swastika.
Similar like Czechoslovakian Avia B-35/B-135 that was also very promising fighter, but had no future thanks to 2nd world war.
Just paying homage to the algorithm.
The between the wars period is one of odd design ideas and things which could have been very good if only.
Looks like designer liked reading Tintin action comics by Herge. Or vice-versa.
Zee ?
.......slava yugoslavia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What is the symbol on the wing
It’s a white cross, over a three colours of yugoslavian flag in a circle scheme.
@@dusankocisevic6823White maltese cross. Serbian Air Force roundel was inspired by the Royal Yugoslav roundel you see there.
:)
Ed?
'Zee' and not 'Zed'?
For shame!!!
😉
☮
😁
Thank you for only saying one measurement and displaying its conversion on screen.
It makes your narration less distracting and more concise
IKZee? Not IK ZED?
Looks good in German markings.
That one got scrapped courtesy of saboteurs who moved the fence separating planes for scrapping from those that were to be kept, while the Germens were distracted.
Looks like a hurricane
It’s sad no IK-3s survived. Also I wonder if the Finns ever considered building the aircraft under license before April 1941?
Nope, I doubt Yugoslavia and finland had any relationship other than basic recognition, uhmmm, like ever?
The Turks did consider it but nothing was agreed.
Unsurprisingly it looks like a mash up of the French Dewotines and Moraines.
Ed, why are you talking American? Zed looks like 3 in Cyrillic, and Zee is merely an American noise.
Tiny rudder
THANKS AGAIN Mr Nash...This COMMENT WILL SELF DESTRUCT IN 5 SECONDS....Shoe🇺🇸
It is IK-3, not IK-Z. Number three, not letter Z.
WHY YAK
just leaving a comment for the 'tube...
why sayeth thou zee, and not zed..
actually, it's a "three"... like this - 3. or " tri " in Serbian . it's even more similar than the Anglo-American variations
Was pleased to hear you pronounce Z as "zed", then you go and start pronouncing it as "zee"...
well, the H-S 12y again ;-)
A half dozen taking on hundreds . Onions!
Main opposition to the German air raids on Belgrade on the 6th of April 1941. came from a few dozen Yugoslav Bf-109s alongside which the IK-3s also pounced. Also there was AAA.
Zee or Zed? Have you become American?
Yak spit cross
It would make a great scaled homebuilt
For single place quick ta git craft
"Eye-kay-zee"?? "Eye-kay-zee"?? Come on, man, you're a Brit! It's "Eye-kay-ZED". :P
it's three. like 3 ...
As an English person shouldn't it be Zed? Why speak American?
z is zed
Looks far too French for it's own good.
it's basically a copy/paste of a D520.
This was pretty much my thought as soon as I saw it
Armament and canopy position was different. It owed more to MS-406 than D-520 imho but it was a Yugoslav design.
what lesson is learned here ? stop using cyrillic and join the real world or you name will be turned into a number 😁😁
Ok more seriously... like ALL fighters not developed in nations with seriously heavyweight engine industries ( US UK Germany and really nobody else ) the design would always be looking for better power plants ( france suffered from this too and no Hispano was not a heavyweight manufacturer/designer , hence they bought a bunch of Curtiss F-75 Mohawks ) So Yugoslavia starts with a nice 975 hp engine but as we know by 1940 thats already behind the curve and 1200 hp would be needed soon to upgrade that fighter properly. Lots of nice fighter and bomber designs built by surprising nations like Holland, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Sweden,France ect ect but they all ended up "slightly less good" because of the ever present search for a powerful engine that had to come from the UK mostly or the US and less so from Germany.... and even then these designs NEVER got the top of the line Engine it was always a second rate because the top engines were in high demand at home. Lets drop a DB 601 or Merlin 45b each with 1500ish HP and lets see what the IK-3/Z could do ? I bet it would have been a world beater !
See Ikarus S-49c. It is basically an all-metal IK-3 with a bubble canopy and more powerful engine.
Can you not pronounce 'z' as 'z' rather than 'zee'?
I'm sure Americans will still be able to understand you.
but where the hell did you get the z from? it's 3
It's ZED and you being British Know it, don't give us the Zee rubbish.
I K ZED! English please, not English US.
The Rogožarski IK-3 was a top range airplane, They sad better manoeuvre than Gernan Messerschmitt back then.
Its produced in Serbia(Yugoslavia)
The best European plane of the time
It was ok for the time but was short ranged and poorly suited for mass production. At the time the Japanese had the carrier capable and ultra long ranged A6M2 Zero which was suited for mass production and better armed.
In Europe, Bf109 e was better as it was better armed, a little faster. Spitfire was also better. Yak 1 was also a little better (faster). And all were well suited for mass production.