Penaids - what are they and why do they exist?
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- Опубликовано: 8 окт 2023
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Penaids are starting to appear on ballistic and cruise missiles, and there is very little info available.
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Any plans to provide coverage relating to current Israel-Gaza crisis? Do you have anything talking about how Iron Dome works? What about the rudimentary missiles being used by Hamas? Or precision airstrikes against targets in dense urban environment?
Any data about Kinzhal penetration capabilities?
I assure you my nuclear bilistic missile needs no more penetrative aid infact I have been informed that I have overpenitration issues
I'm so happy you have more sponsors. I'm not a fan of ads or anything, but I'm thrilled you're being better compensated for your work.
Hey Gus, closing in on the magic 100k can't think of somebody on this platform who deserves it more than You.
All the best
Alex
Thanks Alex, much appreciated
Decoys have been around for a very long time - during the Falklands war, the Royal Navy made extensive use of chaff dispensers on their helicopters. What is comparatively new is missiles defending themselves against anti-missile systems, and the fact that those defences have a degree of intelligence and autonomy.
Millenium 7 is a gifted and brilliant teacher who makes learning engineering fun - and English is not even his first language!
And that really speaks to the man's intellect/IQ ability. I traveled the world enough via the military to learn that English and more to the point American English is one of the most difficult languages to learn and be able to wield at practically the "Well educated native speaker level." And his command while not perfect is like 95 out of 100 so really better than most lol.
Yes. I always feel like I've taken a college class.
I agree, handsdown one of the best military aviation experts on RUclips.
@@Scott11078lol English is one off the easiest languages.
Agree!
Good to see you have a well deserved sponsorship, keep up the good work :)
The missile knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation. The guidance subsystem uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the missile from a position where it is to a position where it isn't, and arriving at a position where it wasn't, it now is. Consequently, the position where it is, is now the position that it wasn't, and it follows that the position that it was, is now the position that it isn't.
In the event that the position that it is in is not the position that it wasn't, the system has acquired a variation, the variation being the difference between where the missile is, and where it wasn't. If variation is considered to be a significant factor, it too may be corrected by the GEA. However, the missile must also know where it was.
The missile guidance computer scenario works as follows. Because a variation has modified some of the information the missile has obtained, it is not sure just where it is. However, it is sure where it isn't, within reason, and it knows where it was. It now subtracts where it should be from where it wasn't, or vice-versa, and by differentiating this from the algebraic sum of where it shouldn't be, and where it was, it is able to obtain the deviation and its variation, which is called error.
Thank you for reminding us 😂
So who's on 2nd?
are you alluding that the video is full of banalities? 😅 I don't think so anyway... what is GEA?
The missile knows where it thinks it is, and in many cases it may have two or more means of establishing its position (INS, GPS, TERCOM etc), which may allow it to improve (refine and/or correct) the quality of its information. At some point it may decide that it is near its target and enter terminal guidance, otherwise it will continue to fly until either it runs out of fuel or it decides it has had enough and destroys itself. It is not complicated.
No no, the missile is method, it spends its whole flight time running Artificial Target code, basically simulating the target, "to hit the target, you must become the target", it doesn't break character the whole time. Just:
10 I am the target
20 goto 10
0:45 put big smile on my face ,it made me remember Lightning McQueen advertising "Rustezze" in Cars (2006).
Meanwhile in other part of the world= Hamas Rocket don't know where it is, don't know where it's going, but only know one thing= it must explode somewhere.
If the fuze works
I think the only working principle of those rockets is: "what goes up, must come down"
@@andresmartinezramos7513 If it goes up in the first place. It may detonate in the launch site.
Resistance is NOT futile.... costly but achievable
Se le ve bien, manténgase así. Nada de sustos y viajes al hospital.
Agreed.
I'm happy Otis got his popcorn! I love how informative all your videos are!
Even a failure to hit the primary could cause a huge expenditure in defensive ordinance - a net win.
Cruise missiles are extremely expensive - it makes a lot of sense to give them every possible opportunity of reaching and hitting their target.
I can't think of any other place where I can learn such in-depth information and so engagingly explained. Excellent, sir!
Nice and very informing short video, not really versed in millitary weapon and dont have the time to look into it so I really appreciate something like this, cheers.
"You can't eat them!" -- "I can vacuum them!" -- he's getting sassy. That he longs for food feels like character growth. Also good video.
He will get overweight like me...
@@Millennium7HistoryTech You are? I never noticed. You present yourself extremely well.
So close to 100k subs - makes me very happy to see you hit that milestone, kudos to you! Great channel, thank you Sir. 😊
Can we thank millennium 7 for keeping up the otis skits? they are genuinly enjoyable everytime and lighten up the conversation
This channel is unique, very informative and with such a rich explanation
As seen in Ukraine last year I remember. Great video, your English is very good and your voice quite relaxing and I love learning about this stuff, I have lots of military books, thanks sir.
Nice video, I know the new conflict will bring lots of interesting videos, but I want to continue hearing more about the Russian one, keep up the good work!
i'm so happy you have better sponsors and get paid more for your work; there is absolutely no competitors on youtube for informations of the global defense industry.
wish you all the best and praying you will stay around for much longer still 🙏
-a Regular watcher since the start.
You are the Best - Awesome video! Never heard of PenAids for these types of missiles - fascinating stuff 😊👍
Im afraid i can't stay away from the jokes this topic creates in my imagination. Penaids. Sounds like a product you buy in the drug store in the "intimacy" section. "Having trouble getting your ordinance into those hotly contested spaces, try PENAIDS!" The joke writes itself from there. I'm 13 at heart. It's a sickness.
Keep up the good work.
"Stabilize your missile with PenAids!! Launch or re-entry, PenAids is 100% effective! Ask your pharmacist about PenAids!!"
I had assumed they were chaff & flare dispensers.
This is a bit more fancy though. Well technically they _are_ large C&F dispensers, but loaded with an active ECCCM device.
These would be pretty modular. I would expect that they are on Russian combat aircraft as well.
(grats on the sponsorship :)
ECCM actually. Aircraft have had self-defence decoys for a very long time, 40 years and more. They used to be fairly crude chaff dispensers, now they are a number of different moderately intelligent devices designed, as described, to create false thermal or radar images.
@@hb1338 ECM interrupts tracking/targeting by way of jamming or chaff/flares.
ECCM is a refinement of targeting to overcome ECM. ("counter-countermeasures")
ECCCM is a refinement of countermeasures to overcome more refined & clever targeting.
It gets kinda silly, and nobody takes the C-count too seriously. Mostly people just tuck it all under the umbrella of the broad & complex realm of "EW" ...if only to avoid sounding like they're stuttering.
But basically if the number of C's is odd, it's defensive, if thee number of C's is even, it's offensive hehe.
An example of ECCM would be the home-on-jam mode which this decoy is trying to exploit.
Jamming decoys are especially effective because the ECCM tactic vs jamming is a "home in on jam" mode. But for a decoy, that leads the missile straight to the decoy as intended. So I'd count a decoy which uses jamming to be 3 C's deep in the C-multiverse ;)
Anyway, an active jamming decoy with a flare attached to it is a pretty advanced bit of EW hardware. The flare makes it more difficult to use an additional type of sensor to double-check the home-on-jam mode.
A dual-wavelength IR sensor could probably pick out the target from the flare, but even then, it would be a fairly subtle cue for the guidance logic to pick up on.
I wonder if it uses a supercapacitor or Li-ion for power? I also wonder if it could have enough power to jam for double-digit seconds, or if it's a short burst to just force a missile guidance to switch modes & reacquire (in a now contact-rich field of view)?
Russian export products have crappy EW hardware (generally US exports too). But domestically, when it comes to EW, russia knows their $h!t.
A frequency-hopping guidance system _should_ be able to overcome this decoy, because such a small decoy is unlikely to have the sigint capacity (onboard the decoy) to keep up ...'probably'. This decoy is still a very cool piece of kit though.
A simple chaff/flares blend would be reasonably effective against 90% of the world's A2AD. This decoy system is explicitly designed to mess with THAAD & Patriott PAC-3.
I kinda feel like Russia _using_ this system in Ukraine is intended to send a message to the US about the likely effectiveness of US nuclear defense assets. Although with the current top-level staffing, that message may have gone right over the heads of the washington top brass.
I some cases in teardowns I've seen chemical batteries, two jars of electrolytes that get mixed when needed. Like single-use illumination things. Long term storage highly reliable, energy dense
@@JohnMullee Oh. Makes sense.
That tracks. WWII-era VT shells used this type of battery in glass ampules.
You got a sponsorship deal, that’s great, and I really appreciate your videos and information.
Oh, man, as a Tym3Glitch (missile meme you tuber) fan, I had to laugh at the title. Edit: the video was quite informative. The only penaids I knew where decoy warheads along with the reals ones . Man, the tech really has progrwssws
Can't wait to see it
You look fly !
Good to see you in better shape and health
Thank you for another very informative and well articulated video.
Another great vid. Looking healthier dude.
Thx for the interesting video. Especialy the information about Pantsir and stealth.
Wow dude - I like your look ! The hair+ the bird + glasses at the beginning of the clip = the best man !! 😁
Interesting. I’d also be interested to hear about Russia’s nuclear powered cruise missile.
It is confirmed via radioactive traces detection systems that Russia is using closed circuit nuclear reactors for those, so the missiles are “clean” in this regard, unlike the attempts from the 1950s. But besides that, not a lot of leaks.
@@tatianaes3354 So that is a real thing?
@@randymarsh1471 yes; the final successful test was done recently. So the nuclear missile is entering the production phase.
@@tatianaes3354so it's powered not just it's explosive?
@@GhostofJamesMadison yes, that is the whole point. The missile can fly like “forever” before hitting its target. Russia has also made giant nuclear-powered torpedoes with the same principle (called Poseidon), stuffed with cobalt for deadlier impact. They also can go arounds the globe in the water, if necessary. Russia has made a huge submarine Belgorod that has two launching outlets for those torpedoes, and is building several more submarines, each whose will hold a few torpedoes like that. But, of course, those weapons are useless in any practical dimensions, they are made only as a doomsday tool for the case if maniacs like Lindsay Graham and his pals would decide it is a time for the USA to continue its nuclear attacks on countries.
Great video on missile tech! Just saw in the news today Yemeni “cruise missiles and drones targeting Israel” were shot down by the US Navy in the Red Sea. Would you consider making a video that analyzes the plausibility of this alleged threat scenario? It seems odd because the range from Yemen to Israel is so far and the likely tech level of missiles/drones in the “attack” is questionable.
Thank you for all you do. My knowledge has grown 10⁶
Very insightful, I never came across this. But it totally makes sense to use such a device...
Dude: You can't eat popcorn! Roomba: .......Watch me.
That intro though! 🤣🤣🤣
Soon 100k :)
Another informative video as always M7.
awsome video, it was the first thing i suggested when joining the comunity and you delivered, thy very much
I learnt something new today. Amazing insight and a excellent analytical mind
Much appreciated
very interesting! Thank you.
Thank for the insight.
I enjoy the videos thoroughly and I hope you continue to be a creator.
Great video.
A great video and it’s nice to see a sponsor! Also…look at that subscriber number. 👍
Finally a sponsorship, congrats!
Great vid and no bias. ❤
otis 😆 is why I dont miss an episode.. u give, truly unique knowledge & broadcast , thank u sir
This gets better amd better
very interesting.
this becoming common changes things greatly.
Any thought of doing an episode on using lasers as weapons?
Near 100K subs let's go!
i love this guy
Always interesting.
Outstanding work 👏👏🤲🙏🙌🙌🌹🌹 thank you
I am not sure where you obtained your definition of Penetration Aids. From 1970 thru 1992 I maintained the Penetration Aids systems on the USAF A-7D F-15 A, B, C, D and F-16 aircraft as an Electronics, Communications and Navigation Aids systems Maintainer, Trainer, Supervisor and Instructor USAF "ATC Subject Matter Expert on the F-16 ECM systems for a couple of years in the early 80s." Penetration Aids are any electronic, or Mechanical System Which assists the USAF vehicle in achieving its successful interdiction of the enemy airspace. NOT JUST NUKES or MISSILES
Thanks!
Thank you to you!!
Modern Missile Decoys came about initially by accident:
when USA's Patriot ADM System was used in the middle-east, it was intended to work entirely automatically
but when opponents in the middle-east fired SCUDS against USA's Patriot ADM, even when incoming SCUDS broke apart and tumbled in multiple parts, the Patriot ADM system was confused and all shots fired could NOT hit NOR stop the incoming bits of tumbling SCUD missile from hitting its mark
👆
whether this tumbling effect was intentional DECOYS by design or accidental DECOYS by a chance separation breakage en route, is unknown
nevertheless, the takeaway lesson is that "scattered extra incoming hot metallic bits" acting as DECOYS works great against any ADM (Air Defense Missile) systems whether using radar or infrared detection or both, while attempting to thwart such incoming missile threats
Nice little vid.
Interesting video. Thank you.
By the way, you can pronounce the Kh as a hard H. That's what Kh means in phonetic alphabet. So it's simply H-37 for example.
Could you make a video on the problem Israel's Iron Dome faces with the amount of ballistic, cheap missiles, that simply overload the system?
The problem is they have no moral reason for their open air prisons filled with the indigenous population of their colony.
@@jimrobcoyle You are botting the wrong comments
@@jimrobcoyle please..stop this off topic
@@jimrobcoyle That has nothing to do with Iron Dome.
very interesting
i have a question since some long range radars are aesa will they be able to lock on to an enemy aircraft with modern rwr without the aircraft being known it is being tracked and a missile is already homing in on it also on the topic of radars can an enemy aircraft pick up the radar signals and locate the radar i watched your video on radars and you said aesa radars are technically lpi so will the enemy pick up the signal or the enemy aircraft has to fly close to the sam sites effective missile range to locate it
How effective have the Gepards been? Confident in the guns, but wonder about the older fire control and radar (and slew rate). PS Excellent video.
That information is not in the public domain, nor will it be for some time to come. This gentleman deals only with OSINT material.
For the Gepard, they mainly deal with short range shit you can realistically kill by blindly firing an MG into the sky (from the browsing i do). They deal with low flying drones and cruise missiles in the cruising phase. Not high tier anti-radiation missiles or ballistic missiles coming for them (which they still are capable of dealing with in a head on engagement).
So they don’t really fight top tier or trouble some targets.
If anyone can help, @ the 10:23 mark there's a logo on the side of the anti air armor it's an evil clown logo behind the barrel does anyone know what unit that is? or direct me to a copy of the logo? Thanks.
What about 9M730 / Burevestnik (SSC-X-9 Skyfall)? This is a nuclear ramjet with for all practical purposes absolutely unlimited range. It can stay in flight and loiter for weeks if not even months. It will definitely have penaids. And it is said to be equipped with AI for autonomous operations even if all command centers are destroyed. The range capability of Burevestnik is unsurpassed by any other weapon available anywhere, but what will make the Burevestnik really shine are its autonomous capabilities. And deploying penaids through AI correctly is part of that. This is really a first, because the compute capability needed is enormous compared to any conventional missile. Imagine strapping the equivalent of four high-end $5000 retail Nvidia 3D graphic cards to a nuclear ramjet, two active, two redundant for backup. And then operating them reliably for weeks or months in a harsh environment under EM threat. It will not be easy.
Brilliant as always please make a video about your thoughts about severe conflict in israil.thanks alot sir
Excellent video! Comment for comments sake!
0:42 made me laugh so hard
X-101 is also suspected to have pen-aids in a form of flare or chaff dispensers.
used to be coworkers with someone who worked on f22flares/counter measures. basically the same as an IR decoy. the tech for their flares is actually really unique compared to all other aircraft which usually use some smelly white/red phosphur based tracer compound. with the f22 (and as i understanding some higher altitude and newer us drones), they use just native iron (pure iron metal), which is sputtered into specific layers forming a crystal lattice type thing. they can adjust this with an external magnetic field and i dont think this nano mfg tech has ever been documented. i remember looking up the wiki page for just sputtering when they told me about it and it was like just like 1 paragraph long about the inside of a bag of crisps lol. anyways the lattice of native iron will instant burst into flames on contact with the atmosphere, and the altitude and corresponding available oxygen concentration + the specific 0 order kinetic surface area reaction somehow mimics the f22's tail pipes really well. what i was told was the same system/simmilar system is used on some higher altitude drones as a self destruct device if they are opened incorrectly, they burst into flames. well iran must of figured that out with trial and error lol
.
This post should be on Warthunder forum
@@dragonstormdipro1013 I was curious and found this info in 2 seconds dating back to 1993, this has been common knowledge to anyone that wanted the info for a while
Sputtering is a well known technique, and is used extensively in all sorts of areas. I'd be surprised if pure iron were reactive enough to combust spontaneously - it may be accompanied by small amounts of a highly reactive starter substance.
@@hb1338 I second your point on how common sputtering has become. There are YTers that have made their own machines for hobby user. OP is correct about iron self igniting. Checkout how disposable hand warmers work which is cool. Fine iron powder and moisture oxidize and generate heat.
the missile knows where it is
Maybe, maybe not.
3:44 This is not Iskander. Its Tochka
True. It was a mistake in editing that slipped through the cracks.
I have read the Iskandar Penaids are most effective against terminal guidance seekers of missiles in many types of SAM systems. But radars like AEGES and the AN/MPQ-53 of Patriot can tell the difference, most of time, and direct their missiles to the correct warhead. But then that is the point of the Penaids, to inundate an enemy radar system so it has to waste computing power to determine what is real and if its forced to turn off, because enemy SEAD operations, making seeker heads much less effective. Iskandar is basically the 21st Century version of old SCUD missile systems. So things like Penaids help mitigate the short comings of SCUD and similar tactical ballistic missile systems. Also as mentioned Penaids are used for cruise missiles to fighter aircraft/bombers.
Any data about Kinzhal penetration capabilities?
Interesting content! I love this shit !
i wish you a lot of health
I'd love a fun "speculative technologies exploration" video, although I'm not sure if it's a good idea. : /
Not sure if that's true... I mean I've seen a missile with flares before and it was something soviet and old, probably those that had their outdated nuclear warheads replaced with conventional munitions and launched from the strategic bomber.
To put it clear; we have entered a robot war. Nothing less. With that we proppably have entered the real WW 3, not due to large scale battles, but due to small incursions by which causing an end of a conflict is less predictible then of any war in the past.
Maybe it depends of who is earlier exhausted, maybe it depends of inventions made as the war goes, maybe it depends of how many people are unable to stand up/fight/produce these things.
As usual; here we view an unusual deep view on the perspective of what is going on!!
when I clicked on this video, I thought it was about armor-piercing shells.
Good video!! This being Russian engineering, it made me wonder early on if “Penetration Aids” were going to end up being tubes of KY instead of high technology. A man has to fuel his yacht somehow!
Unless the armed forces find another use for them, I doubt any will be liberated from the host. Setting off a penetration aid at a party would be pretty memorable though!
Its a shame we could not have those pyramids my friend.
My robo can eat popcorn --- just cannot digest it.
And here i thought the subject of the video would be sone sort of writing accessory
I'm so certain the following isn't against OPSEC that I'm about to say it, like it seemed like one of those "Well who doesn't know about this thing" Kind of things from my time in service ICBMS have had "aids" since the beginning. MIRV warheads Multiple Independent Reentry Vehicle's it's pretty common up to atleast half of the warheads in the "bus" are decoys, started out as simple hardened shaped concrete then US/Allied radars got good enough to tell the difference and then dance of move counter move began.
Kh-101 are equipped with flares/chaff, dispensers were seen on crashed and shot down missiles
Do you have a link or a pointer?
@@Millennium7HistoryTech
warhistoryalconafter
/84246
@@Millennium7HistoryTech I guess one can't name "paper aircraft" messenger on yt btw-_-
@@Millennium7HistoryTech Kh-101 deploying flares ruclips.net/video/KG0LiGXxe2c/видео.html
There are a few videos over the net showing alleged kalibr missile decoys. Would be interested to understand how those work
Do you have a link?
@@Millennium7HistoryTech can't find them on RUclips any longer, I'm afraid. Must have been a fake video or something misinterpreted as a decoy.
Hahahaha! Good opening joke! 😅😅😅
👍
6:13 so he can eat
I play the game for 3 years ,,a good game
Yoooo!! 👍👍👍
X=AFKAT =App Formally Known As Twitter
Please be well my friend you have made a difference to our lives , the difference of the gift of knowledge
Love from
Great Britain 🇬🇧
I thought the object on the picture was a reentry vehicle of a single warhead IRBM or ICBM.
You mean the missile doesn't know where it is???
Maybe, maybe not. It may have a number of methods of establishing its position, but those methods are subject to inaccuracy and even failure. Detecting incorrect data from any of its the positioning systems may be moderately or very difficult.
love the video however i do not personally think we will see alot of penaids in future the reason being that they will increase the cost of cruise missiles and it definitely seems the most effective use of cruise missiles is by the 10s of thousands in a full scale conflict scenario not even the US can afford thousands and thousands of missiles that cost 3-5 million dollars a piece. However if the cruise missile only costs 1 million a piece there is no counter to launching 3000 of them at someone from outside their air defense net.
I would guess bio weapons dispersal. Hello pipes directable thrust even when not lit
You are looking good Sir. May you continue to be blessed with health and life. I find your work informative and up to date. Thank you. GBY.