SBC Dyno Test! Cheap Aluminum Heads / Flat Tappet cam
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- Опубликовано: 25 май 2024
- Want to Spruce up your old 350 Chevy? I took a used bottom end, Cheap 200cc Aluminum heads and a fresh flat tappet cam! We hit the dyno to see how much power it can make without breaking the bank! #budgetbuild #SBC #355
HEI Distributor
amzn.to/4aBBxIJ
Tapered Spacer
amzn.to/4dTcPX3
Dual Plane intake (non polished)
amzn.to/4awl6gR
Prw 1.6 Rocker Arms
amzn.to/3R0DdVk
Black valve Covers
amzn.to/3wQmHA7
Howard's Cam
www.howardscams.com/hydraulic...
200cc Heads
www.skipwhiteperformance.com/... 
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The every day mans 355 SBC, over 400hp, that's a win.
I’ve been preaching about those lifters and I feel like I’m yelling into the wind lol. Glad to see someone else using them with success too!
Man I feel like you’re the Richard Holdener of the Sbc world! I love it!
Haha thanks man
Absolutely! 💯
I have the almost exact same set up in my 73 elcamino. I have a slightly smaller cam and I have the FItech base fuel injection. I have 308 grars right now and a 3500 stall converter. The car is 3775 lbs and let me say this. For a cheap street car, this thing is a kick in the pants. Its just a blast to play with in town.
Sounds like a blast! 🤘🏻
Refreshing no bullshit video, nice job!
Even the cheapest aftermarket aluminum heads usually flow much better than most factory heads. And completely rebuilding stock iron heads can quickly surpass the cheap aluminum heads.
So yay lets spend your countries money offshore cos your ego needs more hp and so you can whinge about how bad your counrty is doing after you sent your money offshore!
@@8power857wow didnt know a guy building his own engine was making a political statement and that you were so annoyed by it that you felt the need to bash this guy and put words in his mouth..... grow the hell up guy!
@@zachniverson8816 well everyone that whinges about offshore stuff they buy then patriotically waves thier countries flag is a hypocrite, free speach, we still have it for now, once we all 'grow up' and shut our mouths well you know the result.
That’s a nice budget build. It should make a nice street engine with that torque curve. Great work.
Great little SBC. Simple, powerful and lots of fun!
The video all sbc guys in this economy have been waiting for 🎉😅
😅
You're lucky to have room for a spacer plate. I need a de-spacer plate (a drop air filter housing) to close my hood.
Those AC lifters have Stellite material on the bases....Same design as the LS-6 & L-88 lifters and the old 370HP LT-1 Small Blocks used on their builds. I recycle those old "Edge Orifice" AC Solid flat tappets by sending them to Rocker Arm Service in Northern California and have them reground to a 100inch Radius (GM Spec was 120inch Radii) and use them with light valves & Beehive Springs to restor vintage Z/28 302 & LT-1 motors....Have some with more than 40,000 miles on the build still running strong. Keep spring rates reasonable run the right oils and they work far more trouble free than roller cams and easily rev past 7500RPMs
Great work as usual ! Thank you for sharing the info 🤝
Pat, love your work. Thanksfor sharing.
You are an excellent engine builder! Builder many more balanced ones! Congrad! Good video!!!!
Greetings from Illinois. Cool video again!
That’s a copy of the old school Isky 280 Mega Cam; solid driver cam. 👍
MAGA CAM!!! HAHAHAHA 😃
Pretty good actually, i mean when i was a kid in the 70's , this would have been real good, and even in factory form, 400 horse was Muscle Car legit, especially for a small block.
thanks great video shows just what can be done with little changes 411 HP well set you in the seat
Nice build.
Just subscribed to your channel.
Have a great day. 👍
Good job i have been doing this with 351 w engines since the late 90 s with the right camming even the gas mileage an t bad
Was debating going 1.6 exhausts on a vortec, or these aluminums, thinking the vortecs are the play now!! Good video cool combo!
Glad I watched this. I'm looking at some AFR enforcer heads to put on a mildly warmed up 350 that has a comp 268 cam with wieand dp intake and 750 quadrajet . Just pulled it out my old truck, gonna put it on the stand for inspection and upgrades on what's needed. Thanks for sharing.
I had to edit my comment, as the cell phone auto spelled Afr heads as African heads. Next time I'll send a hand written letter!😊
I put a 2" carb spacer on my mild 355 build and it seemed to help. It's cool to actually see it's a net positive.
I'm a big fan of the combo spacers
This is funny this is the exact combo I'm putting together except a Holley contender 300-36 intake. That cam is in my current 355 it is an excellent cam, its great cam for a daily because it has a nice wide TQ band like off idle to a decent top and it doesn't need a converter it runs great with a 2400 rpm but also a stock 4.3 v6 converter in a 700r4 and 3:08 gears. I ran it previously with a first gen Torker and you could still mash the throttle off idle and light 295s up and that's with 9:1 355 and ported 993 smoggers. Real sweet idle tok. I've tried a bunch of FT cams this one is my favorite so far in all actuality the lunati 292 bracket master 2 is my 2nd the least the crane sat night special, it was kinda a dud in the combo not much low good midrange poor top, a power out of the corner short track deal, it had a pretty nasty idle tho.
Amazing, I just put together 2 weeks ago almost this exact combo '72 forged crank shortblock, Comp. Magnum 280H, 1.6 rockers, Jegs 195 Aluminum heads, midrise 180 intake (in my MGB, needed hood clearance), Holley 750 hp dp, really happy with it, thinking 375hp/400torque
In a custom chassis/suspension 2200lbs. street MGB, seems pretty sporty
subbed
I'm always surprised how much that spacer is worth. I don't have the hood clearance but if you've got it, do it.
When I started building engines for the short tracks that allowed a dual plane tall manifold I ended up welding the slot that was cut out on the manifold and every time it made significantly more power through a wide range of rpm 3500 to 6000+. Now they come new out of the box cut out. These are spec motors and those 602 crate motors
Thanks for sharing always like your content!!
Great power for a street engine
Very nice engine with simple parts. I think the single pattern cam cost some peak hp, something like 230-236 at 0.050 with 0.530-ish lift would have made the 425 you were looking for. OTOH, it might cost 5 lb-ft on the torque peak. For a daily driver, the torque curve is way more important…Nice job, thanks!
And for those that did not pay attention to the specs for the 480 hp vortec engine. Those vortec heads had larger valves. 2.02/1.60 valves. Not stock vortec heads. Machine work is not cheap, upgrading valves is not cheap.
Just buy good heads
I would take a set of used world 200 sportsman’s from the 90’s before I would waste $2 on vortecs.
Plenty of decent mad aluminum heads that are machined here in the USA. Even the big names are probably cast or made in china now.
Frankenstein aluminum heads are here in Texas. Promaxx aluminum heads have crazy flow numbers.Not really cheap.
Dart doesn’t make cast iron heads for the sbc, only aluminum, also not really cheap.
Bottom line you want budget prices you get budget power numbers.
Nice little motor ive got similar combo wonder what it have ran on pump e85 keep up the good work get the video up on other motor really want to see the results
I slapped a set of those on my 383. Back cut valves and cleaned them up and port matched to 1206. Hope there as good as the 185 promaxxs i was trying to save and screwed up by pressing in new vavle guides that didn't align with the seats.
This was a damn cool video. And I honestly think that any working class guy can afford this setup and make 400 to 450 in just about any car that takes an small block.
Great video!
What’s your brake-in procedure?
That’s what I was expecting it to make.
How much were you expecting?
around 400, we race a 350 flat top motor in our 67 Camaro NHRA Stock Eliminator car. .390 .410 lift cam, flat top pistons, factory cast iron intake and qjet. We where running 10.70’s this past weekend in Norwalk, we make around 450hp.
I got a similar set up in my garage right now waiting to be put together. I have a flat tappet kit from comp. I am gun shy about it. Debating on saving for a hyd roller set up. I got the same head that I am putting my own parts in from one of your other videos. Like your videos gives the common guys some insight and confidence 👍
i've had good lick with comp diamond like crabon coated lifers in 2 engines now
@@davelewis2174yeah some dude here did a video comparing lifters from Federal Mogul... Comp...Manley or some famous manufacturer and the Comps were #1
just built a 327 saved up used a summit roller cam howards lifters not summit they would not tell me who makes there lifters looked at the comments not good, to much $ invested to chance flat tappet. just a thought. good luck with your build. PS used the cam with LS firing order.
@@davelewis2174I'm assuming those lifters are working good then? Obviously they are harder then the cams even, which is good. Don't want two similar hardness metals, that is a no no.
@@rickbaker9053 running fine dlc is tuff stuff
The cammed vortec 5.7 you built was more impressive to me.both engines are nice and would perform well on a budget.
Man this was cool. Did you ever flip the spacer over on open plane intake.
It was good power it would run awesome in a Corvette or a Z28 Camaro
I’ve seen these heads as low as $200 ea, but that’s bare. I would buy these heads and have my machinist friend do a good valve job, and put in good valves and springs. The heads themselves are good from what I hear.
Yeah, prior to covid I could get the casting for $165 bare. They are abit inconsistent at times but are actually quite decent with abit of work
Like to see how much more power can be gained with porting the heads and intake.
But for the money into this build not bad.
Man I was looking at that camshaft 3:55 10:1 ratio with vortec heads ( aftermarket thicker casting) on it for demolition derby engine.
Right there with you. Have a '68 355 10:1 w/ a 400 lift cam, unknown specs arp hardware throughout the block from a friend. Also have a 850 brawler, evilbay intake and hei dizzy. Still have the 76cc heads. Expecting something like 285whp.
What size carb do you generally run on the 355s? I have 2 I need to build, 1 has a roller, the other going with a flat tappet cam but the Thumper kit the guy that backed out of the deal is not what I would I would have chosen. Think I need to sell it & possible upgrade it to a roller cam also... I did grove the lifter bores to help the lifter survive. I opened the valves up with Goodsons 3D fast cut system & the throat to 90%. Is this what you do with your vortec heads? My howards guide cutter I found out under cut so I has no choice but to get Howards seals... I called them & they said they would make it right but must not be a priority because after 2 calls... nothings happened. Love the Dyno & tips on the spacer. I see this cam has a 104LCA, is that straight up or advances 4 deg? Have you played with longer 1.7 Int rockers & 1.55 exh? It shifts the overlap triangle toward the intake with 14.2 atmosphere psi vs the exhaust that blows down from 180-200 psi... If you get no black soot or carbon tracking in the intake.... the exhaust was fully evacuated & no worries.
I agree with you that the engine should have made a little more power. That being said, look at your intake to head port match. I have got a few intakes now that don't match well at all. Especially the china stuff. The cam events are pretty good for a hi performance street deal and you already have 69 degrees of overlap. So its pulling hard from the intake charge. Lastly dyno is a great tool but a car has the final word. I have seen engines make less and go quicker quite often. Weather its air, dyno variances oil level, etc. But check if the intake matches well. There might be more power there!
Intake alignment was actually decent. Intake was used in a previous build and ports were port matched
I haas almost the exact combo except I ran a thinner .020” head gasket and more aggressive flat tappet solid cam…… mine made 447@ 6300 and 438@4100
That's a hot 350! What cam is your more aggressive one?
Nice combo that I’m guessing is very affordable.
I was guessing around the 425-435 hp.
Those heads flow good numbers for the money. The cam definitely let the combo down but I get you only get so much lift from flat tappet cam. I’m not a big fan of single pattern cams with a dual plane, but the big spacer seemed to help a bit.
Great job and looking forward to the next project 🇦🇺👍
I'm not a single pattern guy either. But get asked to use them all the time. I find they never make the same power as a split
@@cuttersperformance I agree mate.
Have you got a good combo for a daily driver close to that kind of torque and hp with a parts list also thank you for what you do i alleays watch when i get a chance
Check out the vortec L31 350 budget build
If I might share an observation, those heads want a much bigger cam, probably do a hydraulic roller if it was mine get the rpm up to 6500 those heads have 540 hp potential with your flow numbers
Exactly, lift is always your friend for making power
I dont know where you are but a little bump in compression up to 11 to 1 and 93 pump gas with some rase gas octane boost making more timing possible. Also port matching and porting the intake would carry the power out about another 500 rpm. Also you didnt say if it had roller rockers in it or not. If you did or didnt and they are say, 1.5s, then you could put 1.6 rollers on and effectively give the valves a tiny bit more lift. Other than that i think a hydraulic roller cam with the same spec would hold the valve open longer and reduce friction and drag, but youd have to go with a degree or two less ovelap to keep idle the same to retain street manners unless you are using a manual trans. But theres also the downside of being more expensive. But i think its worth it in the long run because its almost a crap shoot if you wipe a flat tappet cam lobe or lifter... roller cams live and "spec on spec" persay more power... i would like to see what the other engine would have made with these heads. My guess it would crack 500...
Hey Pat, thanks for the video, do you think that the cheap heads bad(potentially leaking) valve job contributed to less power than you expected?
I don't believe so, I haven't done the post dyno leak down yet though
👍🏻
Have you noticed that the intake ports are a 1205 size, but raised .100"? That's why they say to use a 1206 gasket.
410hp isn't bad for a small cam like that. You probably would have done a little better with a split duration cam and a 110lsa . That 208 lsa sounds good though. Sound alone is worth losing 10hp lol
Yes they are oddly positioned
Please test a 32Valve Set of BBC Thunderpower heas
I bet untouched 2975 fVictor would’ve got you the numbers you were wanting impressive though
Pat, I'm surprised.
This combo ended up way more mild than the parts list implied.
Can't wait to see the Dingle Ball 355 return with more power though.
How much power did you think? And why do you think it's less?
I agree. Just seems like it should've made more like 425-435 with those parts. Heads flow around 260. I've seen 9:1 motors that "needed" 10.5 minimum make more power than that.
@@cuttersperformance. If I may chime in, who knows? Just as a certain combo makes exceptional power, there could be something about that particular cam with those heads that's causing a bit less HP than we'd think. Still not horrible numbers though. Maybe try an open spacer, and moving the ICL ? Also it could be possible that that cam doesn't like 1.6 rockers. I'd be itching to do all 3, together and independently!
@@mikewillett5076Right! 411 is no slouch. And a lot of people will rework these aftermarket heads.
@@cuttersperformance
I apologize for the long response.
I overestimated my guess (462hp...way lofty!) when I watched the short because I was expecting to be surprised like the 242/248 w/ Vortecs on the DB355.
In reality, I expected at least 420hp , closer to 435hp in ideal conditions.
But, I had looked at the cam specs and expected more modern HR performance or SFT performance.
I actually think the cam is the "problem".
That Howards grind is near identical to a Comp 280H, with a tighter LSA.
And it underwhelms compared to what we come to expect from more modern FT grinds.
To use 2 well documented examples with shelf parts:
Theres an episode of Engine Masters that used a stock bottom end 350 SBC, AFR 195s, and a 280H. And the numbers were similarly low. (Not terrible, just low) 395hp I think, with a single plane.
And an earlier episode (still on RUclips) with a nitrous 305. That stock bottom end 305 used stock Vortecs and an XE268H (224/230 110lsa) to make 360hp. Though obviously not completely accurate, scaled up to a 350 would get around 413 hp. With a "smaller" cam and stock 1.94/1.5 Valves, no porting.
I really wonder how the engine would respond to the original 236 HFT from the DB355 and the 1.6 Rockers.
Also, its possible this 200cc head doesnt have the port velocity or chamber to get as good atomization vs the Vortecs? Considering your ported Vortecs hit similar flow with a better chamber and smaller runners.
I wasnt expecting 37 deg for max power, either. Especially with the smaller chamber, good compression, good quench, and no dome slowing the flamefront.
Asking alot out of budget heads I know, but its up against those Vortecs that seem to be outshining.
I thought for sure it would have made more than it did.
When are you going to build the 406 sbc with the Vortec heads? I have a 409 in my 86 C10 with the Dart SS heads running a Lunati bracelet 2 cam. I have 2 more 400 blocks that I want to put Vortec heads on so I can make a sleeper looking motor.
Not sure when it will be dynoed but I'm working on the heads this week
Have you ever built anything with high compression on e85? I see alot of guys at the local 8th mile that love e85. It's also like 2.50 a gallon here in the southeast.
No, only because we have no e85 around here
I'm a like
Is a smoggable 355sbc(or even better, a 383) tbi possible to get over 400hp/400tq? Just gotta pass the California sniffer in a '94 chevy
Do you sell pairs of these heads? I've got an L31 383 with votec heads (mild port work, stock valves) and I'd like a set of aluminum heads - for the weight (and cool factor). It's going in an old volvo 240.
This is pretty close to the 383 set-up I'm getting together, so it's nice to see and hear it running. Your cam is a little bigger, but my stroke is a little bigger. How much does that back-cut help? That's a $$ issue where I am. Maybe If I bought assembled AFR Enforcers, they'd have it already done. I'll have to check into that.
It helps the low lift numbers quite abit
What you think this would make if it was a 11:1 383 w a Howard’s big daddy rattler flat tappet ???
You mentioned milling the tops of the pistons. How much? I am building a Frankenstein 307 small block and need the tops milled as well.
I milled the heads, not the pistons. Pistons are just flat tops with valve reliefs
Now for the real question, how did you make the flat tappet cam live. 🤣🤣😂😂
I won’t ever run a flat tappet again. But that’s the real story.
name and model of carb spacer? thought it would make a little more hp than it did. would like to see the port work you did.
Check the video description for the carb spacer link.
No actual porting done, just some flashing clean up with a sand paper roll. Plus back cuts on the valves
I got a 1978 400 sbc with only 89km in my 9000 pound Chev Van motorhome and was thinking of putting a set of those cheap heads on it . What do you think the compression would be ? Nice channel !
No way of knowing, you will need to figure that out yourself
Dont buy Chinese heads they drop valve seats
Considering most smogger 400s had 76cc heads, I'd guess you'd see a bump in about 1 point of Compression moving to these 64cc heads. (Likely close to 9:1)
Remember to drill the heads for steam holes.
Keep in mind many smog 400s often have a massive Dished piston near 0.040" below deck and then a 0.039" headgasket. So quench is awful.
You're a bit handicapped there without changing to pistons with a taller Compression Height or milling the block.
Any chance we could see this engine with the dingleball cam and intake? Better yet, the 406 with these heads and the dingleball cam and intake?
How about these heads, 383 stroker and a roller cam? Haha coming up on my channel
@@cuttersperformance close enough I guess lol. I’m building a 406 too, is why I asked. But I’ve noticed that 383s and 400s lay down pretty similar numbers so it’ll still be good info.
@@jr78racer im also doing a 406 vortec heads and a flat tappet
Im surprised it only made 411 and 420. The 350 vortec you ran on the dyno with the LT4 hot cam made about the same. Maybe it's not worth me spending the money on the AFR enforcer heads. This has me reconsidering the enforcer heads.
Roller cams and more lift are your friends for making power
@@cuttersperformance will enforcer heads flow better than vortec heads?
@@8luggarage unported, No. But ported they are fairly close even though the vortecs have quite a smaller runner
@@cuttersperformance so is it really worth spending $1000 on a set of enforcer heads to replace my vortec heads? Maybe I'd be better just putting a better cam in
would love to see the torque curve down to 2,000 RPM.
Unfortunately, it's hard to get the dyno to pull that low
How are you setting up the timing curve and what is the total timing set at?😎👍
Not curve on the dyno as it's all in by the start of the pull. But I'm going to set this up in a car. Around 16 to 18 at idle with 10 ish deg of vac advance and 37 total (no vac advance)
@@cuttersperformance
Also the 1203 Summit 4/7 swap stage 4 cam is very close to those specs with a dual duration pattern. The 1205 stage 6 cam did so well for you why didn't you try a stage 4 for this one?
They have stage 1 through 8 in this camshaft line up. With stage 1 being 1200 stage 2 being 1201 and so on up to stage 8 IIRC or is it up to stage 6, one or the other anyway.😎👍
Might’ve done a little better with a dual pattern cam ?
Definitely
Pass on the flat tappet. Do a roller set up always
I think on the short you put out most guys were guessing in the 450hp range for this setup with that big cam, why do you think so many overestimated?
I think its because they are over estimating a low lift flat tappet cam. Add a larger roller cam and it would make it. More lift is a good thing
@@cuttersperformance. True, but I need to catch up. I still consider .512" "getting up there" in lift. 🤣
I wasn't guessing quite that high, but more like 425/30 range. I'd be curious to see what a solid version of the same cam would do.
I guessed 400hp/420tq based on the low lift figure.
A roller cam would have helped imo
A little short on power . I figured about 425 to 450 hp
I was hoping for that aswell
Great video. Love your content.
I have a 355 im struggling with. It has an eagle rotating assembly with .030 flat tops in it. The cam in it at the moment is a 274 ho6 crane cam.
It has summit heads. 202 194 valves and 72 cc chambers. I told the machine shop to true up the deck .010. The block had never been decked before. The engine has between 180 and 185 psi cranking compression. It runs good but will not shut off without leaving it in gear. I was hoping to run this on the 87 pump gas that's the only thing available in my town. I have the timing at 12° at idle without vacuum hooked up and it's 36 at full advance. Is 180 too much for 87 octane. Should I go from a steel shim headgasket to a .041 thick one and cut my compression down?
Have you checked the balancer to TDC? Or verified you don't have lingering power on your distributor (electric fan can cause that). I run 190+ psi on 87 octane in my daily without issue
@cuttersperformance yes sir. Definitely have top dead center marked on a new balancer. Put a piston stop in and rotated forward and backward measured and marked half way. Put my pointer at that spot on the balancer.
If I slow the timing down till it will shut off when at operating temp (185°-190°) then it's extremely sluggish and idles like crap. And I've had that same cam and lifers in a different 350. And never had a problem. I'm about to pull the amazon generic distributor and put the msd distributor and digital 6al box on it and see what it does. I'm really aggravated at it. I've been doing this stuff for 40 years. And never had an engine get the best of me. But this simple engine is being a pain in the.......
Do you sale the engines you build ?
Yeah I do
Is the problem with flat lifters over? I thought everyone was going with rollers.
No the crappy lifters are still out there
@@cuttersperformance Thank you
Shouldn't a flat top with 64cc heads be 10:1 compression?
Like I said in the video, I cut the heads to 59cc
@@cuttersperformance yes I heard you.
It would have been 9.71 prior to cutting the heads
You do engine machine work?
No other than some head work
From Sault ON no engine machine shops around anymore.
Any recommendations?
How did you get a flat tappet cam to work in 2024? Accordin to the internet they no longer work and you NEED to go roller lol.
Hahaha magic 🎩 ✨️
Sounds normal for Wrong combo and a cam close too a 286h cam
What cam would you consider the right cam?
Why don't you Fine a old Torker2 open plane and dyno
I probably have one somewhere
Where are you located at least the state?
North of the boarder 🇨🇦
@cuttersperformance Thank you if you were in or near Arkansas I'd love to visit with you, I work at a great machine shop and assemble engines every day!
@RonaldLewis-py6yt unfortunately not to close, but thank you. I appreciate you checking out my videos
HORSEPOWER WAS LOW, BECAUSE OF THE CAMSHAFT, TOO LITTLE DURATION AND TOO LITTLE RPM
Hmm, I expected more.
So 200cc heads, .512 lift with 1.6 rockers and 10:1 and it’s only 411hp? Hmm
So ruffly 300 to 305 whp.
Maybe abit more but yeah
Seems a little low on hp
How much were you expecting?
So basically the last 50 years of combos like this didn't show any improvements over factory equipment.
Like compared to vortecs?
Are you comparing this to the muscle car hay days? You really can't do that simply based on the use of leaded fuel back then. Not only did leaded fuel allow for higher compression because of the octane but it was a much cooler fuel, too. Today's fuel sucks!
Plus, these heads flow enough to make 550 with the right combination of other parts. The combination used in this video has a handful of compromises to allow it to be more street friendly. You can't really compare it to the Z28 LT-1 of 1970 which ran 11.0:1 compression, a solid cam, 780 CFM carb and leaded gas. Even if you did, that engine was factory rated at 370 HP. The engine on this video, with a more aggressive combination of parts would run circles around the 1970 LT-1.
Never use crappy Chinesium oryu engine will die soon
I bought a 406 for $700 out of a modified stock car brand new rotating assembly missing two lifters and push rods with stock heads wish me luck 🫡 has flat tappet lifters and new cam with also flat top pistons