Believe it or not there is a lot more truth to this what you have said here: "Blessed be the ones who embraced their inner horse." from a biblical standpoint than for the OP's video explanation. As there is a lot more references in the bible backing up the opposing interpretation to this video than those references that purport to support the OP's opinion. Never were the men who choose to follow God labeled weak, incapable of sin, nonovercomers etc. Often were they called: warriors, kings, beasts, champions, overcomers etc. If you think God's people are not supposed to be the most powerful people on the face of the earth in all ways then you have not read the KJV bible and as such you do not truly know what you are talking about.
This type of rhetoric goes over really well with the hyper masculine folks who are trying to inject that into Christianity. They wanna be tough, strong fierce men and the ideas of turn the other cheek, love your enemies and be meek cannot be endorsed in that worldview.
The idea of love your enemy or turn your other cheek is not compatible with the Torah/"Ot" or some of Jesus sayings himself e.g the King verse (Luke 19 27) or where he says he did not come to bring peace or the whole book of Revelation. It also doesn't go in line with reason. Why should I love my enemy in the first place (e.g A.H) and why should I not defend myself against the one who tries to hurt me or my family. Doesn't make any sense.
And they should desire this because the bible gives multiple examples of your purported hypermasculine traits and defines those traits as admirable and Godly and Christians are supposed to be the most powerful beings on the face of the earth in all ways and subdue it like the Bible says. Any other teaching is a lie.
@@joshridinger3407 the gospels (plural) don't go back to Jesus and this concept contradicts Jesus himself: e.g. You have to hate your family according to Jesus, Jesus and the woman/dog is not love or Jesus to his family who the real brothers and sisters. He doesn't even love his own family. 😂
He's trying to justify how he can still be a Christian while following the fascist commandment of "Dominate thy neighbor". So... yes, but probably more generally.
Blessed are the emotionally inteligent for they are not voted off the island. Peterson's "be monsters yet restrained" is a common teaching among evangelicals.
And the reason is because the virtual whole of the biblical text "by far" more supports God's men being subdued beasts and JP's standpoint than the conjecture of the OP and his biases on this small perhaps 50-letter passage. IMO the OP has clearly lacked biblical context and fully misinterpreted the point onto creating a meaning of something almost entirely opposite of the intent of the passage.
There is nothing wrong with controlling strength, if one is actually strong and actually controlling it. Nothing to do with the Bible, and the people using this rhetoric display little strength or control.
@@brettmajeske3525I don't disagree at a basic level. But, it begs the question....how do you show that strength in the first place? You can carry a sword, I can....how do I show I have strength with that sword unless I prove it?
@@lde-m8688 Whoever said that strength needed to be shown? IS that not the definition of Pride? Strength should be controlled, and the only justification to display strength is to help others, and even then with humility. If one is to use the example of Jesus, strength was displayed by miracles, but the display was not the point, helping others was.
@@brettmajeske3525strictly speaking strength is beside the point. gentleness, kindness, etc. are not opposites of physical strength. when peterson says his audience should be monsters, he's not telling them to hit the gym, or get a blue collar job. he's telling them to be cruel, but to 'control it' and contain that cruelty to 'degenerates' and 'deviants'.
I feel like the restrained monsters concept is conflating the warrior poet and the gentle giant and achieving neither. A warrior poet is the archetype of someone turning to creativity as a way to sooth their wounded spirit (ptsd), fundamentally they are someone in conflict with their past or duties. A gentle giant however is the archetype of someone who has great size or skill but no desire to use those gifts to crush someone, fundamentally they are someone who intends to create space for others. The restrained monsters is neither of these things, they do not create or help others grow, fundamentally they desire violence but accept peace (usually out of fear), where meekness requires a desire for peace.
Your conclusion is incorrect, and is the incorrect conclusion that perpetuates the conversation today. The contained monster doesn't desire violence (this whole thing really has very little to do with violence, ) the contained monster is CAPABLE of violence, but never employs it.
@ronjones1414 if they desire no violence or take no enjoyment in it then they are not a monster. You're talking about something closer to a reluctant warrior, the archetype of someone who is capable of violence but not seeking it. All hero archetypes relate to how they employ violence, force and aid.
The Meek are the ones who conquer the Wild Beast. Revelation 17:17. These ones of the Wild Beast attack the Meek! Those who survive The Great Tribulation know the song of Moses and the song of the Lamb. They are a witness of Jehovah and Jesus from A to Z ,from beginning to end. Revelation 15:2 And I saw something like a sea of glass mingled with fire, and those who are victorious over the wild beast and its image and the number of its name were standing by the sea of glass, holding harps of God. 3 They were singing the song of Moses the slave of God and the song of the Lamb, saying: “Great and wonderful are your works, Jehovah God, the Almighty. Righteous and true are your ways, King of eternity. 4 Who will not really fear you, Jehovah, and glorify your name, for you alone are loyal? For all the nations will come and worship before you, because your righteous decrees have been revealed.” The Meeks survival! Those who survive The Great Tribulation! Daniel 12:1 “During that time Miʹcha·el will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of your people. And there will occur a time of distress such as has not occurred since there came to be a nation until that time. And during that time your people will escape, everyone who is found written down in the book. 2 And many of those asleep in the dust of the earth will wake up, some to everlasting life and others to reproach and to everlasting contempt. 3 “And those having insight will shine as brightly as the expanse of heaven, and those bringing the many to righteousness like the stars, forever and ever.
The Star! Compare bible translations verses. [System of Things] vs [End of the Age] [Morning Star] vs [Bright Morning Star] I do realize how a word or phrases changes the meaning. I used the King James Bible that's where I learned God's name. Psalms 83:18 unless you use a revised King James Bible. Matthew 20:18 Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the [system of things].” Jesus is the Bright Morning Star. Jesus said I would be with his disciples until the end of the age. Matthew 28:20 Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you. And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the [end of the age].” The end of the age was 2012 it was The Transit of Venus and Jesus is the Bright morning star. Revelation 22:16 “‘I, Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to you about these things for the assemblies. I am the root and the offspring of David and the [bright morning star].’” Jesus shows up in Jerusalem when he is 12 years old. He shows up 18 years later and throws out the money changers. So 2012 + 18 years 2030. But right after when the 8th King is ruling the earth. I use bible hub for most translations and New World Translation. Here's the Dragon. This is why the beast like a lamb started speaking like a dragon. Satan is a morning star who was hurled to the earth. The morning star of 1874 The Transit of Venus. Who gathered the nations for the Great War of 1914. Isaiah 14:12 How you have fallen from heaven, [morning star], son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! Isiah 14:12 How has Lucifer, that rose in the morning, fallen from heaven! He that sent orders to all the nations is crushed to the earth.
I wasn't prepared for the absolute DELUGE of angry Jordan Peterson fan boys on the short preview of the most recent episode of Data Over Dogma, but it was a hilariously pathetic (or pathetically hilarious?) display of meaningless apologetic on their part. Fortunately, actual scholars like you are out here to explain the actual data 😃
LOL 😆 Peterson maybe off base as to his psychological paradigm lens of Biblical interpretations: but Dan is no better in his redaction Data ( Dan's actual Dogma) over other scholars Dogma based on non redacted Data.
Jordan Peterson should stick to his lane, instead of falling into the too-common trap of thinking that because he's famous, he's an expert on everything.
“Wild horses have no fear.” Tell me you don’t know anything about horses without telling me you don’t know anything about horses. A social prey animal whose very notable primary threat response is *running away at high speed.*
The 5th and 6th Seal of Revelation. Beth-Sarim! Yes they built a Mansion for the resurrection. But the fifth seal of Revelation says they are to rest a little longer. Lol! The “Jubilee Year” teaching of 1925 appeared later, between 1917-1918. The Watchtower Society thus recalls its interpretation: In a booklet published in that same year, 1920, it was pointed out that if 70 full Jubilees were calculated from what was understood to be the date when Israel entered the Promised Land (...), this could point to the year 1925. (Jehovah’s Witnesses-Proclaimers of God’s Kingdom 1993 p. 632). Luke 12:35 Be dressed and ready and have your lamps burning, 36 and you should be like men waiting for their master to return from the marriage, so when he comes and knocks, they may at once open to him. 37 Happy are those slaves whom the master on coming finds watching! Truly I say to you, he will dress himself for service and have them recline at the table and will come alongside and minister to them. 38 And if he comes in the second watch, even if in the third, and finds them ready, happy are they! 39 But know this, if the householder had known at what hour the thief would come, he would not have let his house be broken into. Did the Faithful Slave pass the second and third watch. 1925 and 1975 are they false dates or prophetic prophecy. The 5th And 6th Seal of Revelation. Revelation 6:5 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls* of those slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness they had given. 10 They shouted with a loud voice, saying: “Until when, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, are you refraining from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 And a white robe was given to each of them, and they were told to rest a little while longer, until the number was filled of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed as they had been. 12 And I saw when he opened the sixth seal, and a great earthquake occurred; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair,* and the entire moon became as blood, 13 and the stars of heaven fell to the earth as when a fig tree shaken by a high wind drops its unripe figs. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and every island was removed from its place. 15 Then the kings of the earth, the high officials, the military commanders, the rich, the strong, every slave, and every free person hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 And they keep saying to the mountains and to the rocks: “Fall over us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17 because the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” 1925 was the end of the Jubilee's and they thought Armageddon was coming also in 1975 the end of the 6000 years. They didn't know it was the 5th and 6th seal being opened. They built a mansion. But the 5th seal shows they was to rest a little longer. And they did believe the wrath of Jehovah was coming. Read verse 17 of the sixth seal. Luke 12:32 Have no fear, little flock, for your Father has approved of giving you the Kingdom.
Jehovah's Witnesses are the voice in the wilderness. But people are upset . They listened to the voice and was baptized. Was the Nation of Israel upset because they was baptized crossing the Red Sea. They didn't even know how much Jehovah loved them. Revelation 21:4 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes... no more,... mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” The Gentile Times. Jehovah's Witnesses use prophetic year for Gentile Times to arrive at 1914 for last days of a 120 years. For the Elijah to arrive first. This is how they have over lapping generations. 1914 + 120 is 2034. The Gentile Times by history is 1934 . A generation to the God of Abraham is 100 years. 1934 + 100 is 2034 also. Then back up for the 42 months (2030) or 7 year tribulation. Also by Jehovah's Witnesses using the prophetic year of the Bible. Adam was created 4026 bce. - 4026 bce + 6000 is 1974. But to enter into Jehovah's rest. Is 60 years. Jehovah said they would die in the wilderness from age 20 and up. So 40 years plus 20 is 60 years. 1974 plus 60 years is 2034 also. Jehovah then said to Moses and Aaron: 27 “How much longer will this evil assembly keep up this murmuring against me? I have heard what the Israelites are murmuring against me. 28 Say to them, ‘“As surely as I live,” declares Jehovah, “I will do to you just what I have heard you speak! 29 In this wilderness your corpses will fall, yes, the whole number of you from 20 years old and up who were registered, all of you who have murmured against me. Hebrews 3:9 where your forefathers put me to the test and tried me, despite seeing my works for 40 years. 10 This is why I became disgusted with this generation and said: ‘They always go astray in their hearts, and they have not come to know my ways.’ 11 So I swore in my anger: ‘They will not enter into my rest.’” Hebrews 4:2 For we who have exercised faith do enter into the rest, just as he has said: “So I swore in my anger, ‘They will not enter into my rest,’” although his works were finished from the founding of the world. 4 For in one place he has said of the seventh day as follows: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works,” 5 and here again he says: “They will not enter into my rest.” 6 Therefore, since it remains for some to enter into it, and those to whom the good news was first declared did not enter in because of disobedience, 7 he again marks off a certain day by saying long afterward in David’s psalm, “Today”; just as it has been said above, “Today if you listen to his voice, do not harden your hearts.” 8 For if Joshua had led them into a place of rest, God would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 So there remains a sabbath-rest for the people of God. 10 For the man who has entered into God’s rest has also rested from his own works, just as God did from his own. 11 Let us therefore do our utmost to enter into that rest, so that no one may fall into the same pattern of disobedience. 14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold on to our public declaration of him.
Christendom believes the 2300 evenings and mornings ended in 1844. It was called the Great Disappointment. But not by the Catholic Church. This was the works of the Holy ones the Faithful Slaves. So when you add the 70 year generation for the disgusting thing to appear, you arrive at 1914. The last days 120 years is 2034. The Gentile Times ending in 1934. Abraham offspring is a 100 year generation is 2034. Ishmael born to Abraham at 86 years old was not the fulfillment of the prophecy. The Nation of Israel created by the United Nations in 1948 will their peace last for 86 years or less. Will be 2034 also. 1948+86=2034 1934+100=2034 1914+120=2034
Why is 70 AD important. Why not reset our calendar at Jesus birth. Do you know when the Gentile Times Ended. How did the Magi know Jesus was born as King. But the Roman Empire of King Herod and the Jews did not. They were following the Trinity of Sun, Moon, and Star Worship. Look at the Sumerian solar system picture. Jesus is the true light ,The Bright Morning Star! The same star a person puts over a Christmas Tree! Our calendar was reset and counted backwards to have Jerusalem destroyed in 70AD. Jesus shows up at 12 and 30 years old. Why did the Jews think Jesus was almost 50. There is a difference of 20 years. So when did the Gentile Times End. Using bible chronology for 1914 or according to history 1934.
The Star! Compare bible translations verses. [System of Things] vs [End of the Age] [Morning Star] vs [Bright Morning Star] I do realize how a word or phrases changes the meaning. I used the King James Bible that's where I learned God's name. Psalms 83:18 unless you use a revised King James Bible. Matthew 20:18 Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the [system of things].” Jesus is the Bright Morning Star. Jesus said I would be with his disciples until the end of the age. Matthew 28:20 Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you. And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the [end of the age].” The end of the age was 2012 it was The Transit of Venus and Jesus is the Bright morning star. Revelation 22:16 “‘I, Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to you about these things for the assemblies. I am the root and the offspring of David and the [bright morning star].’” Jesus shows up in Jerusalem when he is 12 years old. He shows up 18 years later and throws out the money changers. So 2012 + 18 years 2030. But right after when the 8th King is ruling the earth. I use bible hub for most translations and New World Translation. Here's the Dragon. This is why the beast like a lamb started speaking like a dragon. Satan is a morning star who was hurled to the earth. The morning star of 1874 The Transit of Venus. Who gathered the nations for the Great War of 1914. Isaiah 14:12 How you have fallen from heaven, [morning star], son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! Isiah 14:12 How has Lucifer, that rose in the morning, fallen from heaven! He that sent orders to all the nations is crushed to the earth.
Another example of Christians not following the parts of the Bible they don't like. According to Jesus, the teacher Christians supposedly follow: 1) Who will inherit the Earth? The meek 2) What should you do if you get slapped in cheek? Present the other one 3) What should you do to your enemies? Love them
Yes, I agree with you. Mr. Peterson's idea, as I understand it, is that one should intentionally and actively cultivate their (Jungian shadow) "monster" to be _then_ tamed by themself. I don't see anything her or elsewhere in the NT to suggest such an idea. OTOH, the TikTok creator's point about Christianity taming the "wild" people very much fits within the NT more broadly, and is not out of place here. Now, the creator might have overstated the definitiveness of the connection to the classical Greek, rather than leaving it as "interesting to note," and I certainly don't see any reason why the passage would be _exclusively_ referring to this sort of person, but it certainly makes sense. Consider that the historical context in which this was written was in the aftermath of the _Parousia_ of the Roman-Jewish War. Therefore, the author is depicting our Lord speaking to people who are under the rule of the Romans in the lead up to this conflict. The unspoken part, therefore, is that the meek shall inherit the earth (the soil the land, not the planet) _as opposed to_ the rebellious Zionists, Zealots, and Sicarii.
Furthermore we have to all understand it's ok to be wrong, if we can have the facts presented to prove it and we are willing to change our point of view. Only a fool and his pride would continue when faced with the absolute to show he is at error. Besides, being proven wrong has merits if we can digest it, as the next time the subject presents itself we can then be proven to be right and provide instruction for those who do not know or are unaware ;) Much love to you all! Steel sharpens Steel ;)
And common sense knows Christians can not subdue the enemy of themselves and mankind and his minions with a smile, a kind word and a handshake. As such the OP is wrong in his conjecture and the bible is right - Don't you agree?! :D
I’ll give the content creator this, he at least made an effort to find a source (even if it’s flawed) unlike a certain someone who specializes in and makes money by speaking out of his @$$ *cough* JP *cough*!
Hint: the * (or _ or -) must always be between the first/last non-space and the next space (or beginning/end of the comment). Otherwise, as above, it isn't recognized. And yes, I've made that mistake, too. Too often for my liking. Doesn't work without space on the outside, doesn't work with space on the inside.
I think a video on these lexicons and how they were made, with a short spotlight on the authors would be appreciated by your audience, Dan. These seem like monumental, backbreaking feats of scholarship that benefit numerous scholars. I suspect they earned a lot of praise from experts, but this is far removed from general public (like myself). If your mission is to shine a light on Biblical scholarship, and if my suspicion regarding how much work these take is right, maybe give us a video dedicated to these scholars? Idk, just a suggestion.
I agree this guy is going overboard with his trained war horses. I still like translating praos as broken though--the people Jesus are preaching too are mild and gentle, because they have spent their whole lifetime having any idea of resistance beat out of them (not only with physical blows but economic and social control). Imagine having to bow your head every time you meet someone to acknowledge their social dominance over you, and risking a real physical beating if you didn't. The people who have to do that are going to inherit the earth because the people who own now have organized it on the basis of injustice and oppression and it has to be taken away from them
@@isaacreain another misinterpretation, another "I agree with the opposite of what you said but making it clear I am being polite" comment. I am thinking of making a glossary of these weaselly remarks.
@@ritawing1064 I feel you are not clear perhaps if you are looking for something else you could be more clear. I stand behind my biblically based points.
@@isaacreain No, you don't. Matthew 3:8: "You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth." 39But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you." Luke 6:7: "27But I say to you who hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. 29To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from one who takes away your cloak do not withhold your tunic either. 30Give to everyone who begs from you, and from one who takes away your goods do not demand them back. 31And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them." You are rejecting Jesus' own words.
I wonder if dismissing the Classical Greek meanings as irrelevant during the period in which Koine Greek was the lingua franca is a universally foolproof strategy. Considering the close parallels between some narratives in the Gospel of Mark and Homer's Odyssey, e.g. the story of the demoniac being analogous to the story of the cyclops, is it not plausible that the author was classically trained? It seems that to lump all NT authors into a category of "they didn't know and couldn't intend the classical meanings" is a similar error to the presupposition of univocality -- after all, they were different authors.
I totally agree and to glean so much from a 50-letter English translation of a passage without using other text from the same manuscripts to back it up; this is also fallible :D In this case there are multiple passages in the bible where men are referred to specifically as beasts. Jesus goes on into the next breath in Matthew 5:8 and says "Blessed are the peacemakers..." who are by the nature of nature itself the ones who also have the power to bring war! IMHO the peacemakers and the meek in the same passage, these are closer to one in the same than any explanation or conjecture Dan that has given, even within the context of Jesus' own words and our English translation of them.
@@isaacreain oh, I wasn't saying this specifically in regards to this particular passage or interpretation, but as a more general question since this assumption "they couldn't mean the Classical Greek meanings" seems to underpin the scholarly consensus readings of New Testament passages. I wonder if that has a solid, rational foundation or if it is an artifact of the history of academia: for centuries, Christians have held sway over the academy, so any interpretation that did not sit well with the church authorities would not be tolerated or promulgated. For example, in Mark 10, there is a controversy around children being brought to Jesus that he "might touch them". The verb used here has a sexual connotation and is the same verb used in 1 Corinthians 7 "it is good that a man does not touch a woman". The this-is-Koine-Greek school of thought dismisses this connotation as outdated even though the author has every appearance of being classically trained and despite the fact that Paul uses the same word with the same sexual meaning in one of his letters. To my eye, this passage looks like an apologetic attempt to reframe child molestation controversies in the early church, and the plausibility of this interpretation is increased if the Gospel of Mark was written by the church in Alexandria which had a reputation for sodomizing young boys. The Gospels also have a lot of lexical connections to the death-and-resurrection mystery cults of the day (e.g. "he who has ears to hear, let him hear" coming from the Orphic cult), and we know that the non-proto-orthodox groups were engaging in mystery cult rituals, e.g. catacomb orgies and communion wine infused with drugs and sexual fluids, due primarily to the condemnation of such practices by the proto-orthodox. This offends the consensus sensibilities of scholars built up by centuries of church oversight/religious monopoly on the study of the Bible, but it is obvious when you know where to look. If we dogmatically hold to the assumption that Koine Greek can bear no Classical Greek meanings, then these obvious connections have to be ignored; but if we drop this dogma and look at the texts as they are, we can give these patterns a proper, unbiased analysis.
If you were going to use a meaning of a word that hasn't been in common usage for a few hundred years, would you give context clues that you were, or would you just throw it out there?
@@hive_indicator318 the context clues are definitely a necessary part of parsing these meanings. For example, Jesus' disciples were children (he repeatedly called them παιδιά and τέκνον, and only he and Peter had to pay the temple tax because the rest were too young -- there is even a scene in which two of them get their mom to ask him a question for them); he tells them in Mark 4 that they are special because everyone else gets the deceptive riddles while they are "given to know the mystery"; the Orthodox interpretation of the Mark 10 controversy is that the disciples were jealous (think "you said we were special, now you're touching these random other kids?"); and to top it off, there was a naked teenage boy at the arrest scene with a medical bandage around his genitals (Mark 14). Cross referencing with John, we get this sequence of events: Jesus takes his kiddies to a secret, private gathering in which he gets naked and pressures them into some "foot washing"; then he puts his clothes back on, says "do you know what I've done to you?", and instructs them to perpetuate the practice; then little Judas goes to the cops to rat out the abusive cult leader and then kills himself; after the crucifixion, Peter takes some of Jesus' boys on a boat to do some overnight fishing and wakes up naked (I wonder what "fishers of men" means). I think it is reasonable given the context of the story to interpret the word for "might touch" in Mark 10 with the same meaning obviously meant by Paul in 1 Corinthians 7. Also, 1 Corinthians 7 clearly demonstrates that these classical Greek meanings were still being used by the 1st century NT authors. Another example is the word παιδισκη, often translated "servant girl" or "maiden" but also meaning a child prostitute: in Matthew 26:69, Peter is sitting in a courtyard and gets approached by a παιδίσκην who says "you were with Jesus", which he denies; the word means an enslaved girl or a child prostitute (LSJ lexicon), and in the context of being in a courtyard unaccompanied and approaching grown men, she would likely have been a prostitute. Context is important, but most of the time, people asserting "context" as a reason to dismiss a literal reading of a passage or the literal meaning of a word are trying to spin an eisegetically motivated web of confusion for apologetic purposes. Edited for spelling.
Yeah but that means they don't get to be "alpha males" so they've got to work out how to make it mean something else. You've even got church congregations telling their preachers they don't want to hear about "gentle Jesus", because it's "too weak" and "too liberal/leftist".
The problem with Christianity is that there is no central authority that can or will censure people who make up this nonsense. For example, if Jordan Peterson promotes this idea, then shouldn't the Roman Catholic church at least list such videos in the Codex?
Christianity is on a decline so they use every way possible to gain followers. This goes back to Paul the chameleon who became basically everything to gain people (1 cor 9 20). So they don't care.
The idea of discipline and fortitude in life's endeavors is a time-tested virtue, but i agree that Peterson's attempt to read it into this passage is obviously mistaken. It seems that some versions of early christianity glorify self-victimization and subservience, as god will be the only one to be delivering just retributive punishment.
Dan thanks for your research and opinion on this, though I do feel you are wrong on this one. In this instance the translation for tamed beast of sorts make much more sense within the context of the passage;)
Yeah you’ve just literally described confirmation bias, you feel he is wrong because of the context - but how that context supports that reading or even what you consider that context to be is not elaborated, because it’s an opinion that quite literally cannot be substantiated by the actual text
The poor or poor in spirit is juxtaposed with its opposite reward- the kingdom of heaven and its implied riches, Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted (comfort is the solution/alleviation of the pain of mourning) Blessed are the meek (the gentle, undomineering, whose who do not wish to dominate or subjugate, those who are mild) for they will inherit the earth - they will be given power, the earth belongs to those who do not wish to rule, Blessed are those who hunger and thirst (for righteousness or not) either way it is ‘sated’ The rest, pure in heart, etc follows this way - praising peacemakers, the pure in heart, those who are persecuted for a righteous cause the entire passage is in praise of those who suffer and are kind, there is no implication of a martial spirit or mastery or discipline over one’s self but of the praise of a disposition of gentleness and compassion and also theres an implication that such a disposition places one on the ‘side’ of the oppressed.
If that's the case, then why would Jesus turn around and go table flipping at the temple? Are you suggesting he was doing it placidly like a cat does to your favorite mug? Also, I think you're misrepresenting what JBP was trying to suggest with his own negotiation of the text. Yes, he was taking a different approach to the traditional reading, but it wasn't for the sake of encouraging men to go beat their wives or anything like that.
"it wasn't for the sake of encouraging men to go beat their wives or anything like that." of course not. that was just an added bonus. btw I totally agree that J was a fg AH. He sure showed that fig tree who is boss.
No JP’s interpretation was an attempt to reinforce his preferred hierarchy and power structure. “A different approach” is one way to put it. “Making shit up” is probably a better descriptor.
@@scambammer6102 A side effect of Dr Peterson's lectures have led to men beating their wives? As Dan would say "Alright, let's see it". I've paid attention to JBP ever since his series on Maps Of Mean led me to, y'know find meaning. Unless you could help provide me with data that supports your claim, I can't see it. And you'll DEFINITELY have to help me understand what "J was a fg AH" means. I have no clue as to what your fig tree reference is towards.
The traits of modesty, being unassuming, not being impressed with a sense of one’s self-importance, gentleness, humility, and being considerate only comes through the existence of restrained power. There is a difference between humbleness and cowardliness, and that difference is that the humble individual possesses the power of self restraint and the discernment to not utilize any possessed power when it would not bring about an optimum solution. I understand that your identity politics of supporting the LGB... community really wants the Bible to say that passive people that are the antithesis of the European Patriarchy are the better people who will inherit the Earth, but that just isn't what it says. By the way, I first heard this lesson around 1980, well before Jordan Peterson had the opportunity to relay his version to the world, and the individual who delivered the lesson was in his 60s and had understood it since he was a child in the 1930s, this is not a new idea.
Nobody mentinoned cowardice. The message is entirely clear: don't defend yourself, and even help your enemy. If you don't like it, you should pick another religion.
@juanausensi499 I mentioned cowardice. Thank you for considering me nobody. Your interpretation of the entirely clear message is completely wrong, but even if we go with it, how much strength of character does it take to not defend yourself? As far as not defending yourself, consider the insult of the backhand.
@@ronjones1414 "I mentioned cowardice. Thank you for considering me nobody." Nothing here "Your interpretation of the entirely clear message is completely wrong" I already knew you position "but even if we go with it, how much strength of character does it take to not defend yourself?" A lot, if you want to defend yourself, or nothing, if you don't. "As far as not defending yourself, consider the insult of the backhand." More nothing Of course, you are not even trying explain why my interpretation is wrong. I'm sorry but you are not going to sleaze away from this. Tell me, what's your interpretation on 'turning the other cheek"?
I would like to finally add to this Op's video misintrepretation of Matthew 5:5 - That Jesus actually says inside this same passage within the same context just moments later, "Blessed are the peacemakers..." It should be highly noted that those who can make peace treaties and bring peace are only those strong men or some like to say subdued beasts who are also capable of bringing war...Case Closed Jesus said it in this same passage my friends!:D If you think God is a pansy so you have a right to be a pansy and sit on your laurels I will pray for you! Paul, John the Baptist, King David and all of our forefathers including the Bible, Jesus and God himself disagree with you! ;)
It’s funny that you keep proving over and over you’re reading your own ideology and preferred power structure onto what Jesus says. You’re projecting modern concepts of power onto an ancient text and it’s just pretty transparent.
@@KarlRadekBonk No I am not you clearly have not researched this matter nor are you well versed in the biblical transcripts otherwise you wouldn't make such bold unbacked blanket statements. The truth I have spoken has fully sound logic and it's biblically based as I have given several biblical examples in my previous statements inside these threads below of which you clearly also did not read or don't care to properly consider. Again if you did, I am of the opinion you wouldn't enter such conjecture. God is not the God of wimps and those that didn't sin because they are emasculately incapable but he is the God of those who are capable of sin but choose not to do it because they choose to follow Christ and his example; while exercising their restraint and subduing of their beast instincts "in short overcoming themselves." If you think the bible and Christianity as its extension is full of pious wimps and pansy effeminate men incapable of evil and wickedness and that the bible is not full of the celebration of the kings, champions warriors and men of renown then you are not reading the kjv bible. Furthermore the bible multiple times refers to men being beasts and if you disagree then you are again not reading the kjv bible and I would wager to say you are not reading a bible at all ;)
The World follows Revelation 17:17 The League of Nations failed to promote peace. It is the 8th King that arrives from the 7th Kingdom. With WWII it received the death stroke . A mortal wound was healed as United Nations who reestablished the Nation of Israel. Revelation 13
![NoCap - Maliboo [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FUV7E0QyniU/mqdefault.jpg)
Blessed be the ones who embraced their inner horse.
Neigh Amen
Bronies are the real Christians I guess
😂😂😂
Neighmen!
Believe it or not there is a lot more truth to this what you have said here: "Blessed be the ones who embraced their inner horse." from a biblical standpoint than for the OP's video explanation. As there is a lot more references in the bible backing up the opposing interpretation to this video than those references that purport to support the OP's opinion.
Never were the men who choose to follow God labeled weak, incapable of sin, nonovercomers etc.
Often were they called: warriors, kings, beasts, champions, overcomers etc.
If you think God's people are not supposed to be the most powerful people on the face of the earth in all ways then you have not read the KJV bible and as such you do not truly know what you are talking about.
the guy created an entire lore out of a word... and horses
why would "the meek" want to inherit the earth? What does that even mean? And what is so great about being meek anyway? Bible is stupid.
This type of rhetoric goes over really well with the hyper masculine folks who are trying to inject that into Christianity. They wanna be tough, strong fierce men and the ideas of turn the other cheek, love your enemies and be meek cannot be endorsed in that worldview.
Absolutely. When Christians start to say that the teaching of Jesus is woke, that's a sign that Christianity is headed in the wrong direction
The idea of love your enemy or turn your other cheek is not compatible with the Torah/"Ot" or some of Jesus sayings himself e.g the King verse (Luke 19 27) or where he says he did not come to bring peace or the whole book of Revelation. It also doesn't go in line with reason. Why should I love my enemy in the first place (e.g A.H) and why should I not defend myself against the one who tries to hurt me or my family. Doesn't make any sense.
@germanboy14 so just ay you don't like gospel jesus instead of trying to turn him into a 1st century nietszche
And they should desire this because the bible gives multiple examples of your purported hypermasculine traits and defines those traits as admirable and Godly and Christians are supposed to be the most powerful beings on the face of the earth in all ways and subdue it like the Bible says. Any other teaching is a lie.
@@joshridinger3407 the gospels (plural) don't go back to Jesus and this concept contradicts Jesus himself: e.g. You have to hate your family according to Jesus, Jesus and the woman/dog is not love or Jesus to his family who the real brothers and sisters. He doesn't even love his own family. 😂
Seems like the guy is trying to justify having a cross next to a Punisher skull sticker on the back of his truck.
He's trying to justify how he can still be a Christian while following the fascist commandment of "Dominate thy neighbor". So... yes, but probably more generally.
Exactly!
I notice that in the only video I have ever seen comparing Jesus to Thanos, Dan has opted for a DC Tshirt. Is this how the gnostics felt?😂
Blessed are the emotionally inteligent for they are not voted off the island. Peterson's "be monsters yet restrained" is a common teaching among evangelicals.
And the reason is because the virtual whole of the biblical text "by far" more supports God's men being subdued beasts and JP's standpoint than the conjecture of the OP and his biases on this small perhaps 50-letter passage. IMO the OP has clearly lacked biblical context and fully misinterpreted the point onto creating a meaning of something almost entirely opposite of the intent of the passage.
"Being strong as long as you can control it" here basically mean "being an asshole is good as long as you can find an excuse"
I mean, if it works for god (via apologetics) then it should work for me too!
There is nothing wrong with controlling strength, if one is actually strong and actually controlling it. Nothing to do with the Bible, and the people using this rhetoric display little strength or control.
@@brettmajeske3525I don't disagree at a basic level. But, it begs the question....how do you show that strength in the first place? You can carry a sword, I can....how do I show I have strength with that sword unless I prove it?
@@lde-m8688 Whoever said that strength needed to be shown? IS that not the definition of Pride?
Strength should be controlled, and the only justification to display strength is to help others, and even then with humility. If one is to use the example of Jesus, strength was displayed by miracles, but the display was not the point, helping others was.
@@brettmajeske3525strictly speaking strength is beside the point. gentleness, kindness, etc. are not opposites of physical strength. when peterson says his audience should be monsters, he's not telling them to hit the gym, or get a blue collar job. he's telling them to be cruel, but to 'control it' and contain that cruelty to 'degenerates' and 'deviants'.
Ah, come on Dan! He's just negotiating his meaning with the text!
Every text is a proof text!
A lot of this could be avoided if people would learn what confirmation is and to be on guard against it.
They need to teach this skill in schools.
@20quid it's not in an unjust society's interest to develop thinking people.
@@CDBYT1335 True
This is equivalent to insisting on using shakespearean meanings of words when reading contemporary English.
And of course when he said "Blessed are the peacemakers," he meant concealed Colts.
Why do they need to be concealed? Are we discussing 1911s or SAAs?
Good one 😂
takeaway: jesus is like thanos
I feel like the restrained monsters concept is conflating the warrior poet and the gentle giant and achieving neither. A warrior poet is the archetype of someone turning to creativity as a way to sooth their wounded spirit (ptsd), fundamentally they are someone in conflict with their past or duties. A gentle giant however is the archetype of someone who has great size or skill but no desire to use those gifts to crush someone, fundamentally they are someone who intends to create space for others.
The restrained monsters is neither of these things, they do not create or help others grow, fundamentally they desire violence but accept peace (usually out of fear), where meekness requires a desire for peace.
Your conclusion is incorrect, and is the incorrect conclusion that perpetuates the conversation today. The contained monster doesn't desire violence (this whole thing really has very little to do with violence, ) the contained monster is CAPABLE of violence, but never employs it.
@ronjones1414 if they desire no violence or take no enjoyment in it then they are not a monster. You're talking about something closer to a reluctant warrior, the archetype of someone who is capable of violence but not seeking it. All hero archetypes relate to how they employ violence, force and aid.
@mattsimon4167 I think we have known for several interactions that we are in agreement. Please insert whatever term makes you feel victorious.
The Meek are the ones who conquer the Wild Beast. Revelation 17:17. These ones of the Wild Beast attack the Meek! Those who survive The Great Tribulation know the song of Moses and the song of the Lamb. They are a witness of Jehovah and Jesus from A to Z ,from beginning to end.
Revelation 15:2 And I saw something like a sea of glass mingled with fire, and those who are victorious over the wild beast and its image and the number of its name were standing by the sea of glass, holding harps of God. 3 They were singing the song of Moses the slave of God and the song of the Lamb, saying: “Great and wonderful are your works, Jehovah God, the Almighty. Righteous and true are your ways, King of eternity. 4 Who will not really fear you, Jehovah, and glorify your name, for you alone are loyal? For all the nations will come and worship before you, because your righteous decrees have been revealed.”
The Meeks survival! Those who survive The Great Tribulation! Daniel 12:1 “During that time Miʹcha·el will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of your people. And there will occur a time of distress such as has not occurred since there came to be a nation until that time. And during that time your people will escape, everyone who is found written down in the book. 2 And many of those asleep in the dust of the earth will wake up, some to everlasting life and others to reproach and to everlasting contempt. 3 “And those having insight will shine as brightly as the expanse of heaven, and those bringing the many to righteousness like the stars, forever and ever.
The Star!
Compare bible translations verses.
[System of Things] vs [End of the Age]
[Morning Star] vs [Bright Morning Star]
I do realize how a word or phrases changes the meaning. I used the King James Bible that's where I learned God's name. Psalms 83:18 unless you use a revised King James Bible. Matthew 20:18
Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the [system of things].”
Jesus is the Bright Morning Star. Jesus said I would be with his disciples until the end of the age.
Matthew 28:20 Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you. And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the [end of the age].”
The end of the age was
2012 it was The Transit of Venus and Jesus is the Bright morning star. Revelation 22:16 “‘I, Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to you about these things for the assemblies. I am the root and the offspring of David and the [bright morning star].’”
Jesus shows up in Jerusalem when he is 12 years old. He shows up 18 years later and throws out the money changers. So 2012 + 18 years 2030. But right after when the 8th King is ruling the earth.
I use bible hub for most translations and New World Translation.
Here's the Dragon.
This is why the beast like a lamb started speaking like a dragon.
Satan is a morning star who was hurled to the earth. The morning star of 1874 The Transit of Venus. Who gathered the nations for the Great War of 1914.
Isaiah 14:12
How you have fallen from heaven, [morning star], son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!
Isiah 14:12
How has Lucifer, that rose in the morning, fallen from heaven! He that sent orders to all the nations is crushed to the earth.
I wasn't prepared for the absolute DELUGE of angry Jordan Peterson fan boys on the short preview of the most recent episode of Data Over Dogma, but it was a hilariously pathetic (or pathetically hilarious?) display of meaningless apologetic on their part. Fortunately, actual scholars like you are out here to explain the actual data 😃
LOL 😆 Peterson maybe off base as to his psychological paradigm lens of Biblical interpretations: but Dan is no better in his redaction Data ( Dan's actual Dogma) over other scholars Dogma based on non redacted Data.
Jordan Peterson should stick to his lane, instead of falling into the too-common trap of thinking that because he's famous, he's an expert on everything.
He knows he is no expert. He is just making a living out of saying what right-wing people want to hear.
Agree. Turn the other cheek is meek? Forgiveness is meek.
“Wild horses have no fear.”
Tell me you don’t know anything about horses without telling me you don’t know anything about horses. A social prey animal whose very notable primary threat response is *running away at high speed.*
Something makes me think this would be OPs reaction to danger too😂
Jehovahs witnesses showed up today and I said “alright, let’s see it.”
The 5th and 6th Seal of Revelation.
Beth-Sarim! Yes they built a Mansion for the resurrection. But the fifth seal of Revelation says they are to rest a little longer. Lol!
The “Jubilee Year” teaching of 1925 appeared later, between 1917-1918. The Watchtower Society thus recalls its interpretation:
In a booklet published in that same year, 1920, it was pointed out that if 70 full Jubilees were calculated from what was understood to be the date when Israel entered the Promised Land (...), this could point to the year 1925. (Jehovah’s Witnesses-Proclaimers of God’s Kingdom 1993 p. 632).
Luke 12:35 Be dressed and ready and have your lamps burning, 36 and you should be like men waiting for their master to return from the marriage, so when he comes and knocks, they may at once open to him. 37 Happy are those slaves whom the master on coming finds watching! Truly I say to you, he will dress himself for service and have them recline at the table and will come alongside and minister to them. 38 And if he comes in the second watch, even if in the third, and finds them ready, happy are they! 39 But know this, if the householder had known at what hour the thief would come, he would not have let his house be broken into.
Did the Faithful Slave pass the second and third watch.
1925 and 1975 are they false dates or prophetic prophecy. The 5th And 6th Seal of Revelation.
Revelation 6:5
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls* of those slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness they had given. 10 They shouted with a loud voice, saying: “Until when, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, are you refraining from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 And a white robe was given to each of them, and they were told to rest a little while longer, until the number was filled of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed as they had been.
12 And I saw when he opened the sixth seal, and a great earthquake occurred; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair,* and the entire moon became as blood, 13 and the stars of heaven fell to the earth as when a fig tree shaken by a high wind drops its unripe figs. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and every island was removed from its place. 15 Then the kings of the earth, the high officials, the military commanders, the rich, the strong, every slave, and every free person hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 And they keep saying to the mountains and to the rocks: “Fall over us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17 because the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”
1925 was the end of the Jubilee's and they thought Armageddon was coming also in 1975 the end of the 6000 years. They didn't know it was the 5th and 6th seal being opened. They built a mansion. But the 5th seal shows they was to rest a little longer. And they did believe the wrath of Jehovah was coming. Read verse 17 of the sixth seal.
Luke 12:32 Have no fear, little flock, for your Father has approved of giving you the Kingdom.
Jehovah's Witnesses are the voice in the wilderness. But people are upset . They listened to the voice and was baptized. Was the Nation of Israel upset because they was baptized crossing the Red Sea. They didn't even know how much Jehovah loved them.
Revelation 21:4
4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes...
no more,... mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”
The Gentile Times.
Jehovah's Witnesses use prophetic year for Gentile Times to arrive at 1914 for last days of a 120 years. For the Elijah to arrive first. This is how they have over lapping generations. 1914 + 120 is 2034.
The Gentile Times by history is 1934 . A generation to the God of Abraham is 100 years. 1934 + 100 is 2034 also. Then back up for the 42 months (2030) or 7 year tribulation.
Also by Jehovah's Witnesses using the prophetic year of the Bible. Adam was created 4026 bce.
- 4026 bce + 6000 is 1974. But to enter into Jehovah's rest. Is 60 years. Jehovah said they would die in the wilderness from age 20 and up. So 40 years plus 20 is 60 years.
1974 plus 60 years is 2034 also.
Jehovah then said to Moses and Aaron: 27 “How much longer will this evil assembly keep up this murmuring against me? I have heard what the Israelites are murmuring against me. 28 Say to them, ‘“As surely as I live,” declares Jehovah, “I will do to you just what I have heard you speak! 29 In this wilderness your corpses will fall, yes, the whole number of you from 20 years old and up who were registered, all of you who have murmured against me.
Hebrews 3:9 where your forefathers put me to the test and tried me, despite seeing my works for 40 years. 10 This is why I became disgusted with this generation and said: ‘They always go astray in their hearts, and they have not come to know my ways.’ 11 So I swore in my anger: ‘They will not enter into my rest.’”
Hebrews 4:2 For we who have exercised faith do enter into the rest, just as he has said: “So I swore in my anger, ‘They will not enter into my rest,’” although his works were finished from the founding of the world. 4 For in one place he has said of the seventh day as follows: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works,” 5 and here again he says: “They will not enter into my rest.”
6 Therefore, since it remains for some to enter into it, and those to whom the good news was first declared did not enter in because of disobedience, 7 he again marks off a certain day by saying long afterward in David’s psalm, “Today”; just as it has been said above, “Today if you listen to his voice, do not harden your hearts.” 8 For if Joshua had led them into a place of rest, God would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 So there remains a sabbath-rest for the people of God. 10 For the man who has entered into God’s rest has also rested from his own works, just as God did from his own.
11 Let us therefore do our utmost to enter into that rest, so that no one may fall into the same pattern of disobedience.
14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold on to our public declaration of him.
Christendom believes the 2300 evenings and mornings ended in 1844.
It was called the Great Disappointment. But not by the Catholic Church. This was the works of the Holy ones the Faithful Slaves. So when you add the 70 year generation for the disgusting thing to appear, you arrive at 1914. The last days 120 years is 2034. The Gentile Times ending in 1934. Abraham offspring is a 100 year generation is 2034. Ishmael born to Abraham at 86 years old was not the fulfillment of the prophecy. The Nation of Israel created by the United Nations in 1948 will their peace last for 86 years or less. Will be 2034 also. 1948+86=2034
1934+100=2034
1914+120=2034
Why is 70 AD important. Why not reset our calendar at Jesus birth.
Do you know when the Gentile Times Ended. How did the Magi know Jesus was born as King. But the Roman Empire of King Herod and the Jews did not. They were following the Trinity of Sun, Moon, and Star Worship. Look at the Sumerian solar system picture. Jesus is the true light ,The Bright Morning Star! The same star a person puts over a Christmas Tree! Our calendar was reset and counted backwards to have Jerusalem destroyed in 70AD. Jesus shows up at 12 and 30 years old. Why did the Jews think Jesus was almost 50. There is a difference of 20 years. So when did the Gentile Times End. Using bible chronology for 1914 or according to history 1934.
The Star!
Compare bible translations verses.
[System of Things] vs [End of the Age]
[Morning Star] vs [Bright Morning Star]
I do realize how a word or phrases changes the meaning. I used the King James Bible that's where I learned God's name. Psalms 83:18 unless you use a revised King James Bible. Matthew 20:18
Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the [system of things].”
Jesus is the Bright Morning Star. Jesus said I would be with his disciples until the end of the age.
Matthew 28:20 Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you. And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the [end of the age].”
The end of the age was
2012 it was The Transit of Venus and Jesus is the Bright morning star. Revelation 22:16 “‘I, Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to you about these things for the assemblies. I am the root and the offspring of David and the [bright morning star].’”
Jesus shows up in Jerusalem when he is 12 years old. He shows up 18 years later and throws out the money changers. So 2012 + 18 years 2030. But right after when the 8th King is ruling the earth.
I use bible hub for most translations and New World Translation.
Here's the Dragon.
This is why the beast like a lamb started speaking like a dragon.
Satan is a morning star who was hurled to the earth. The morning star of 1874 The Transit of Venus. Who gathered the nations for the Great War of 1914.
Isaiah 14:12
How you have fallen from heaven, [morning star], son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!
Isiah 14:12
How has Lucifer, that rose in the morning, fallen from heaven! He that sent orders to all the nations is crushed to the earth.
🤘
Another example of Christians not following the parts of the Bible they don't like.
According to Jesus, the teacher Christians supposedly follow:
1) Who will inherit the Earth?
The meek
2) What should you do if you get slapped in cheek?
Present the other one
3) What should you do to your enemies?
Love them
I still like this interpretation better than Jordan Peterson’s any day of the week #JesusWantsYouToBeAMonster
Yes, I agree with you. Mr. Peterson's idea, as I understand it, is that one should intentionally and actively cultivate their (Jungian shadow) "monster" to be _then_ tamed by themself. I don't see anything her or elsewhere in the NT to suggest such an idea.
OTOH, the TikTok creator's point about Christianity taming the "wild" people very much fits within the NT more broadly, and is not out of place here. Now, the creator might have overstated the definitiveness of the connection to the classical Greek, rather than leaving it as "interesting to note," and I certainly don't see any reason why the passage would be _exclusively_ referring to this sort of person, but it certainly makes sense.
Consider that the historical context in which this was written was in the aftermath of the _Parousia_ of the Roman-Jewish War. Therefore, the author is depicting our Lord speaking to people who are under the rule of the Romans in the lead up to this conflict. The unspoken part, therefore, is that the meek shall inherit the earth (the soil the land, not the planet) _as opposed to_ the rebellious Zionists, Zealots, and Sicarii.
sounds a lot like JP's interp to me
Furthermore we have to all understand it's ok to be wrong, if we can have the facts presented to prove it and we are willing to change our point of view. Only a fool and his pride would continue when faced with the absolute to show he is at error. Besides, being proven wrong has merits if we can digest it, as the next time the subject presents itself we can then be proven to be right and provide instruction for those who do not know or are unaware ;) Much love to you all! Steel sharpens Steel ;)
it amuses me that Matthew 5:5 can be translated 'Blessed are the affable, for they will inherit the Earth'. It makes me think of Ned Flanders.
Flanders is the perfect Christian. He follows ALL the Bible, including the parts that contradict other parts.
Cambridge Greek English also uses some Koine texts, such as the Gospels.
Blessed be those with common sense, which is not so common.
And common sense knows Christians can not subdue the enemy of themselves and mankind and his minions with a smile, a kind word and a handshake. As such the OP is wrong in his conjecture and the bible is right - Don't you agree?! :D
I’ll give the content creator this, he at least made an effort to find a source (even if it’s flawed) unlike a certain someone who specializes in and makes money by speaking out of his @$$ *cough* JP *cough*!
Hint: the * (or _ or -) must always be between the first/last non-space and the next space (or beginning/end of the comment). Otherwise, as above, it isn't recognized. And yes, I've made that mistake, too. Too often for my liking. Doesn't work without space on the outside, doesn't work with space on the inside.
So, Jesus was a talking horse like Mister Ed?
May the horse be with you.
I think a video on these lexicons and how they were made, with a short spotlight on the authors would be appreciated by your audience, Dan.
These seem like monumental, backbreaking feats of scholarship that benefit numerous scholars. I suspect they earned a lot of praise from experts, but this is far removed from general public (like myself).
If your mission is to shine a light on Biblical scholarship, and if my suspicion regarding how much work these take is right, maybe give us a video dedicated to these scholars?
Idk, just a suggestion.
That bat sh- t look with T- shirt: is a classic!
I agree this guy is going overboard with his trained war horses. I still like translating praos as broken though--the people Jesus are preaching too are mild and gentle, because they have spent their whole lifetime having any idea of resistance beat out of them (not only with physical blows but economic and social control). Imagine having to bow your head every time you meet someone to acknowledge their social dominance over you, and risking a real physical beating if you didn't. The people who have to do that are going to inherit the earth because the people who own now have organized it on the basis of injustice and oppression and it has to be taken away from them
The bible will say what you want it to say if you torture it for long enough.
Love this quote
Creator knows about as much about horses as he does about koine Greek.
Yes Dan's video is a clear and obvious misinterpretation to anyone who has just a little bit of bible knowledge and bible memory;)
@@isaacreain another misinterpretation, another "I agree with the opposite of what you said but making it clear I am being polite" comment. I am thinking of making a glossary of these weaselly remarks.
@@ritawing1064 I feel you are not clear perhaps if you are looking for something else you could be more clear. I stand behind my biblically based points.
@@isaacreain oh dear,I may have mistaken genuine lack of comprehension for irony!
@@isaacreain No, you don't.
Matthew 3:8: "You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth." 39But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you."
Luke 6:7: "27But I say to you who hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. 29To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from one who takes away your cloak do not withhold your tunic either. 30Give to everyone who begs from you, and from one who takes away your goods do not demand them back. 31And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them."
You are rejecting Jesus' own words.
Once I found out it wasn't about horses, I lost interest 😂
I wonder if dismissing the Classical Greek meanings as irrelevant during the period in which Koine Greek was the lingua franca is a universally foolproof strategy. Considering the close parallels between some narratives in the Gospel of Mark and Homer's Odyssey, e.g. the story of the demoniac being analogous to the story of the cyclops, is it not plausible that the author was classically trained? It seems that to lump all NT authors into a category of "they didn't know and couldn't intend the classical meanings" is a similar error to the presupposition of univocality -- after all, they were different authors.
I totally agree and to glean so much from a 50-letter English translation of a passage without using other text from the same manuscripts to back it up; this is also fallible :D In this case there are multiple passages in the bible where men are referred to specifically as beasts. Jesus goes on into the next breath in Matthew 5:8 and says "Blessed are the peacemakers..." who are by the nature of nature itself the ones who also have the power to bring war! IMHO the peacemakers and the meek in the same passage, these are closer to one in the same than any explanation or conjecture Dan that has given, even within the context of Jesus' own words and our English translation of them.
@@isaacreain oh, I wasn't saying this specifically in regards to this particular passage or interpretation, but as a more general question since this assumption "they couldn't mean the Classical Greek meanings" seems to underpin the scholarly consensus readings of New Testament passages. I wonder if that has a solid, rational foundation or if it is an artifact of the history of academia: for centuries, Christians have held sway over the academy, so any interpretation that did not sit well with the church authorities would not be tolerated or promulgated.
For example, in Mark 10, there is a controversy around children being brought to Jesus that he "might touch them". The verb used here has a sexual connotation and is the same verb used in 1 Corinthians 7 "it is good that a man does not touch a woman". The this-is-Koine-Greek school of thought dismisses this connotation as outdated even though the author has every appearance of being classically trained and despite the fact that Paul uses the same word with the same sexual meaning in one of his letters. To my eye, this passage looks like an apologetic attempt to reframe child molestation controversies in the early church, and the plausibility of this interpretation is increased if the Gospel of Mark was written by the church in Alexandria which had a reputation for sodomizing young boys.
The Gospels also have a lot of lexical connections to the death-and-resurrection mystery cults of the day (e.g. "he who has ears to hear, let him hear" coming from the Orphic cult), and we know that the non-proto-orthodox groups were engaging in mystery cult rituals, e.g. catacomb orgies and communion wine infused with drugs and sexual fluids, due primarily to the condemnation of such practices by the proto-orthodox. This offends the consensus sensibilities of scholars built up by centuries of church oversight/religious monopoly on the study of the Bible, but it is obvious when you know where to look. If we dogmatically hold to the assumption that Koine Greek can bear no Classical Greek meanings, then these obvious connections have to be ignored; but if we drop this dogma and look at the texts as they are, we can give these patterns a proper, unbiased analysis.
If you were going to use a meaning of a word that hasn't been in common usage for a few hundred years, would you give context clues that you were, or would you just throw it out there?
@@hive_indicator318 the context clues are definitely a necessary part of parsing these meanings. For example, Jesus' disciples were children (he repeatedly called them παιδιά and τέκνον, and only he and Peter had to pay the temple tax because the rest were too young -- there is even a scene in which two of them get their mom to ask him a question for them); he tells them in Mark 4 that they are special because everyone else gets the deceptive riddles while they are "given to know the mystery"; the Orthodox interpretation of the Mark 10 controversy is that the disciples were jealous (think "you said we were special, now you're touching these random other kids?"); and to top it off, there was a naked teenage boy at the arrest scene with a medical bandage around his genitals (Mark 14). Cross referencing with John, we get this sequence of events: Jesus takes his kiddies to a secret, private gathering in which he gets naked and pressures them into some "foot washing"; then he puts his clothes back on, says "do you know what I've done to you?", and instructs them to perpetuate the practice; then little Judas goes to the cops to rat out the abusive cult leader and then kills himself; after the crucifixion, Peter takes some of Jesus' boys on a boat to do some overnight fishing and wakes up naked (I wonder what "fishers of men" means). I think it is reasonable given the context of the story to interpret the word for "might touch" in Mark 10 with the same meaning obviously meant by Paul in 1 Corinthians 7. Also, 1 Corinthians 7 clearly demonstrates that these classical Greek meanings were still being used by the 1st century NT authors.
Another example is the word παιδισκη, often translated "servant girl" or "maiden" but also meaning a child prostitute: in Matthew 26:69, Peter is sitting in a courtyard and gets approached by a παιδίσκην who says "you were with Jesus", which he denies; the word means an enslaved girl or a child prostitute (LSJ lexicon), and in the context of being in a courtyard unaccompanied and approaching grown men, she would likely have been a prostitute.
Context is important, but most of the time, people asserting "context" as a reason to dismiss a literal reading of a passage or the literal meaning of a word are trying to spin an eisegetically motivated web of confusion for apologetic purposes.
Edited for spelling.
@@k98killer you provided a lot of examples to your response that didn't answer my question.
Inside of everyone there are two horses
I realize most people who watch your channel understand this, but it might help to give examples of how English words change with context.
Okay, but the drawing is pretty cool, no?
I don't get it. Meek seems pretty straightforward to me. Those who are chill and peaceful will obviously live a healthier life 🤷
Yeah but that means they don't get to be "alpha males" so they've got to work out how to make it mean something else. You've even got church congregations telling their preachers they don't want to hear about "gentle Jesus", because it's "too weak" and "too liberal/leftist".
🤦🏽♂️
To me the beatitudes promise vengeance, as does so much of the Bible. Not justice, love, or anything desirable
I like how the Lord said not to quarrel with the quarrelsome when being interrogated.
Go the Bronies I guess…
When I found out the patriarchy wasn’t about horses, I lost interest.
The problem with Christianity is that there is no central authority that can or will censure people who make up this nonsense.
For example, if Jordan Peterson promotes this idea, then shouldn't the Roman Catholic church at least list such videos in the Codex?
you mean the catholic church that ordered the crusades?
Christianity is on a decline so they use every way possible to gain followers. This goes back to Paul the chameleon who became basically everything to gain people (1 cor 9 20). So they don't care.
Christianity has a central authority. Two of them, actually. Non-catholic non-orthodox aren't the majority.
@@juanausensi499 If there are two it cannot logically be "a central".
@@NielMalan Well, the issue is that there is authority.
That's a terrible drawing of a horse
Most amateur drawings of horses are pretty terrible.
#cantdrawhorsesclub
it hasn't been meeked yet
The idea of discipline and fortitude in life's endeavors is a time-tested virtue, but i agree that Peterson's attempt to read it into this passage is obviously mistaken. It seems that some versions of early christianity glorify self-victimization and subservience, as god will be the only one to be delivering just retributive punishment.
surely heaven is a democracy. we all get to vote for god.
Well-stated.
Dan thanks for your research and opinion on this, though I do feel you are wrong on this one. In this instance the translation for tamed beast of sorts make much more sense within the context of the passage;)
Then you haven’t read the passage.
Yeah you’ve just literally described confirmation bias, you feel he is wrong because of the context - but how that context supports that reading or even what you consider that context to be is not elaborated, because it’s an opinion that quite literally cannot be substantiated by the actual text
The poor or poor in spirit is juxtaposed with its opposite reward- the kingdom of heaven and its implied riches,
Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted (comfort is the solution/alleviation of the pain of mourning)
Blessed are the meek (the gentle, undomineering, whose who do not wish to dominate or subjugate, those who are mild) for they will inherit the earth - they will be given power, the earth belongs to those who do not wish to rule,
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst (for righteousness or not) either way it is ‘sated’
The rest, pure in heart, etc follows this way - praising peacemakers, the pure in heart, those who are persecuted for a righteous cause
the entire passage is in praise of those who suffer and are kind, there is no implication of a martial spirit or mastery or discipline over one’s self but of the praise of a disposition of gentleness and compassion and also theres an implication that such a disposition places one on the ‘side’ of the oppressed.
Taken in the context of the entire sermon, there is nothing that implies support of controlled violence or retention of power over others.
@issacreain what specifically in the passage leads you to believe that “tamed beast” makes much more sense?
If that's the case, then why would Jesus turn around and go table flipping at the temple? Are you suggesting he was doing it placidly like a cat does to your favorite mug? Also, I think you're misrepresenting what JBP was trying to suggest with his own negotiation of the text. Yes, he was taking a different approach to the traditional reading, but it wasn't for the sake of encouraging men to go beat their wives or anything like that.
"it wasn't for the sake of encouraging men to go beat their wives or anything like that." of course not. that was just an added bonus. btw I totally agree that J was a fg AH. He sure showed that fig tree who is boss.
No JP’s interpretation was an attempt to reinforce his preferred hierarchy and power structure. “A different approach” is one way to put it. “Making shit up” is probably a better descriptor.
@@scambammer6102 A side effect of Dr Peterson's lectures have led to men beating their wives? As Dan would say "Alright, let's see it". I've paid attention to JBP ever since his series on Maps Of Mean led me to, y'know find meaning. Unless you could help provide me with data that supports your claim, I can't see it. And you'll DEFINITELY have to help me understand what "J was a fg AH" means. I have no clue as to what your fig tree reference is towards.
There are simply many Jesus in the gospels or the Nt, because many (most are unknown) people wrote stuff.
@@groovyMysterioso you too slow dude "I have no clue as to what your fig tree reference is towards" lol why are you on a video about the bible?
The traits of modesty, being unassuming, not being impressed with a sense of one’s self-importance, gentleness, humility, and being considerate only comes through the existence of restrained power. There is a difference between humbleness and cowardliness, and that difference is that the humble individual possesses the power of self restraint and the discernment to not utilize any possessed power when it would not bring about an optimum solution.
I understand that your identity politics of supporting the LGB... community really wants the Bible to say that passive people that are the antithesis of the European Patriarchy are the better people who will inherit the Earth, but that just isn't what it says.
By the way, I first heard this lesson around 1980, well before Jordan Peterson had the opportunity to relay his version to the world, and the individual who delivered the lesson was in his 60s and had understood it since he was a child in the 1930s, this is not a new idea.
LGBT community. We will not be divided.
@squiddwizzard8850 the fact that this is what is important to you says it all.
Nobody mentinoned cowardice. The message is entirely clear: don't defend yourself, and even help your enemy. If you don't like it, you should pick another religion.
@juanausensi499 I mentioned cowardice. Thank you for considering me nobody. Your interpretation of the entirely clear message is completely wrong, but even if we go with it, how much strength of character does it take to not defend yourself?
As far as not defending yourself, consider the insult of the backhand.
@@ronjones1414 "I mentioned cowardice. Thank you for considering me nobody." Nothing here
"Your interpretation of the entirely clear message is completely wrong" I already knew you position
"but even if we go with it, how much strength of character does it take to not defend yourself?" A lot, if you want to defend yourself, or nothing, if you don't.
"As far as not defending yourself, consider the insult of the backhand." More nothing
Of course, you are not even trying explain why my interpretation is wrong. I'm sorry but you are not going to sleaze away from this. Tell me, what's your interpretation on 'turning the other cheek"?
Please note that this is more for women than men.
I would like to finally add to this Op's video misintrepretation of Matthew 5:5 - That Jesus actually says inside this same passage within the same context just moments later, "Blessed are the peacemakers..." It should be highly noted that those who can make peace treaties and bring peace are only those strong men or some like to say subdued beasts who are also capable of bringing war...Case Closed Jesus said it in this same passage my friends!:D
If you think God is a pansy so you have a right to be a pansy and sit on your laurels I will pray for you! Paul, John the Baptist, King David and all of our forefathers including the Bible, Jesus and God himself disagree with you! ;)
It’s funny that you keep proving over and over you’re reading your own ideology and preferred power structure onto what Jesus says. You’re projecting modern concepts of power onto an ancient text and it’s just pretty transparent.
Please dont include david or pervert paul in your passage. They werent good people by any means and are not worthy of respect.
@@KarlRadekBonk No I am not you clearly have not researched this matter nor are you well versed in the biblical transcripts otherwise you wouldn't make such bold unbacked blanket statements. The truth I have spoken has fully sound logic and it's biblically based as I have given several biblical examples in my previous statements inside these threads below of which you clearly also did not read or don't care to properly consider. Again if you did, I am of the opinion you wouldn't enter such conjecture. God is not the God of wimps and those that didn't sin because they are emasculately incapable but he is the God of those who are capable of sin but choose not to do it because they choose to follow Christ and his example; while exercising their restraint and subduing of their beast instincts "in short overcoming themselves."
If you think the bible and Christianity as its extension is full of pious wimps and pansy effeminate men incapable of evil and wickedness and that the bible is not full of the celebration of the kings, champions warriors and men of renown then you are not reading the kjv bible. Furthermore the bible multiple times refers to men being beasts and if you disagree then you are again not reading the kjv bible and I would wager to say you are not reading a bible at all ;)
The World follows Revelation 17:17 The League of Nations failed to promote peace. It is the 8th King that arrives from the 7th Kingdom. With WWII it received the death stroke . A mortal wound was healed as United Nations who reestablished the Nation of Israel.
Revelation 13
@@strappedfatman7858 reading modern day events into the stories in Revelation is just goofy.