Influencers RUINED Photography!
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2023
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Tony and Chelsea discuss the latest casuality of poorly behaved content creators, Sleepy Hallow Farm! From vandalized monuments to injured anumals, they review stories of poorly behaved influencers and photogrpahers, what they did wrong, and question the ethics and etiquette of taking photos. 
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Didn’t it used to be Tony? 🧐
There's a certain highway in California where people own a charming little house not far off the highway. They have trouble with people getting into their flower bed and trampling things from time to time so they put stay off signs up. And I understand. They have a beautiful garden, it obviously takes a lot of time and effort to keep it looking that good.
Also here in California, the influencers were trampling all the wild flowers in Walker Canyon during a super bloom. People were coming from all over the world and not staying on the trails. They even had someone fly in on a helicopter and land in the middle of the flowers, whoever that charter pilot was that did that ought to be sanctioned if he wasn't. Law enforcement closed it all and chased everyone out including this little old Asian lady who was doing an oil painting even though she WAS NOT breaking any of the rules.
If I had any kind of following on social media, etc. I'd be certain not to mention where a remarkable looking tree is if I photographed that. One guy photographed an old mill in the middle of the forest, and understandably he'd be no more specific about it than that it was in the northeast.
And this is why I think people should not have GPS cameras. Make notes on where something is on paper.
Photographers stand behind the camera and use their skill to capture landscapes and people. Influencers are focused on standing in front of the camera; showing themselves at popular locations. There is a difference.
Perfectly said!
Half the gear review videos I watch turn out to be for video shooters and vloggers. Your comment is the conclusion I came to why those vids don't interest me.
Well said. Ironically as a photographer I can't stand being in front of a camera haha.
Yes! There is a complete narcissist focus with influence motivation. True photography is snapping a moment or history or setting.
This is a very small subset of what an Influencer can be. Tf
the influencer does not go to the Vermont farm to take a photo of the cute house and colors they go there to take a picture of their own face in front of that location. That's the difference
I had a former photographer friend that I used to photograph abandoned buildings with. He shocked me one day by asking if I wanted to destroy an artifact so that no one else had the opportunity to photograph it. He was that "competitive" I guess that he had to completely remove the possibility of anyone else taking a photo of that. I was not his friend going forward.
Did he destroy it? Just wondering....
Wow, that is an appalling thought. I understand why you severed that friendship.
See, I always assumed the tacet point that every photographer understood was that it is specifically NON-destructive, right? Like, if you can't take an artifact/subject/whatever home with you, photograph it! I feel that destruction of your subject defeats the whole point, at least to some extent.
@@ryano.5149 can’t remember where I read it, but it was something along the lines of: “Take only pictures, leave nothing but footprints behind.”
Good for you. It seems your friend wasn’t that confident to produce a great image if he had to destroy the artifact & the possibility of someone else creating a better image.
I once made the mistake of providing geolocation of a very rare bird I had photographed. Within a week, the place was swarmed by over zealous birders. Will NEVER make that mistake again!
Here in the UK a very famous tree was cut down (vandalised) only yesterday. It's called the Sycamore Gap tree at Hadrian's Wall, so you probably know of it. So sad to think someone did that to it and your comments about the Wanaka tree reminded me of the Sycamore Gap tree.
Seriously it was! My wife and I visited Scotland and northern England in June. The tree is in a few photos I took. So sad.
I just heard about that this morning. A jerk 16-year-old was charged. For what, TikTok? Shameful.
I saw this today too. OMG! How can someone do that? Sad
That's terrible. EDIT: Just read that a 60yo man was arrested.
I'm furious and it sums up the ethos of our country at the moment. Destructive :(
Photography groups have ruined access too. A well-known photography leader with a workshop in the Palouse of Washington took his group to a place with a collection of farm trucks (and a nicely reproduced 1930s gas station). He decided 6:00 a.m. was appropriate to trespass without permission. The owner and his wife woke up to see the photography group outside their undraped bedroom window (hey this is farm country with no other houses for miles along the road). When confronted the leader tried to give the guy some small cash to make up for it and argued with the owner that they had the right to be on the property as they'd done it in previous years (with prior permission). A member of the group also accessed a garage by opening a side door and drawing a heart on the dusty windshield. The garage was clearly marked "no trespassing". The owner has closed off access with signs blocking his driveways saying "no trespassing, no photography". Thanks to the workshop leader, a really interesting collection of 1930s and 1940's farm trucks (over 75) is now off-limits permanently. BTW the photography leader has moved on- he no longer offers Palouse workshops. (And we won't say more about other photographers that burned down three separate classic barns by trespassing and burning the barns down while spinning wads of burning steel wool).
Right to defend your own land and 🔫 anyone that's trespassing
I'd argue if you lead a group of photographers you are in fact an influencer, lol
Oh wow. There need to be stronger punishments for starting fires. Fire is so unpredictable and can go out of control so easily that you never know how far it's going to spread or how many people it might end up killing.
EVEN if it's not posted "No Trespassing" people, (especially photographers) should know that it's illegal to enter unto private property that is not your own without permission.
@@vickifrance Depending on where you live and depending on what you're doing on the land, it might be perfectly legal to be there without asking the owners. Land access rights get messy in a hurry.
I live in Montana. I don't go to Yellowstone park or Glacier. It has become so overrun with tourists and photographers. In some places you have to get reservations. The TV show Yellowstone as well as prequels are filmed here. Locals are mad with all the people that come here to take pictures of themselves at the Dutton Ranch which is the Chief Joseph Ranch. States and localities want tourism and tax dollars. But they fail to realize the amount of impact this has on the local community. The raising of rents and property values. That are pricing people who have lived here for many generations out of the market. Their own home. That those that come here sometimes are not good neighbors but think the place they moved from should be the way it is here. They say they want the experience but bring the same habits, way of thinking, and an entitled attitude. No trespassing signs are everywhere. People even get mad when you take a photo from a public road. Places where I used to have no problems with access as long as I was polite and asked permission. I photograph where others still not know about. I feel that is the true treasure of Montana. That gets harder and harder to find. "The Last Best Place " is being loved to death. I feel like someone who is recording the last of the dinosaurs before extinction.
I've been photographing a spot in Colorado with a barn in the distant fall foliage in front of the Rockies for 10 years. There was never anyone else there for a long time. In the last couple of years, there was a person or two. Yesterday I arrived early, set up, and a person showed up. He was friendly and I was happy to see him there, but he kept asking me if this was the famous barn. I had no idea what he was talking about, but there in the distance parked by the barn were two trucks, I don't even know how they got down there. And then several cars and a tour bus pulled up and photographers poured out. They walked all over the terrain and were all commenting on the famous barn. It was weird and sad.
A few years ago I was at Mesa Arch in Canyonlands NP. I found a spot being respectful of the other “photographers” who were there and proceeded to set up for my shot. Just then along comes an “influencer” who pushes past us photographers to go up to the arch and pose like she was doing a fashion shoot for her boyfriend. She carried on like this for a couple minutes before one of the other “photographers” told her to get the “F” out of the way, which she ignored until us other photographers joined in on the calls for her to get out of our way.
Bravo!!
Good for you! Glad you did that.
Okay this particular case is like right at the edge of a very important line where I think the photographers actually cross the line into being the assholes (I say this being a photographer myself).
Just recently I visited Grand Teton NP and went to photograph the famous barn at Mormon Row. The photographers can be so toxic to people it's honestly really off-putting. It's so easy to get in your head about getting your shot, that you forget these places are there for everyone to view. It's one thing to be that obnoxious person that's going in front of everybody and taking selfies for a ridiculous amount of time like the girl you mentioned, but people just passing through to take a look should not be getting yelled at by photographers there to get a picture. Literally anyone that tried to cross in front to get to the other side got immediately yelled at and scolded to go around, even though the entire group of photographers apart from me were on the edge of the walking path with nothing but soaking wet tall grass behind them. Not only is this uncalled for for people just walking through, but in a day and age where Content Aware Fill can remove somebody from your photo at the click of a button, it's just such unnecessary malice.
If someone is being rude and overstaying their welcome in front of your shots, than sure ask them to move, but someone just showing up to take a peek or cross through getting yelled at is really ridiculous behavior and turns people off of the hobby and photographers in general.
Even as another photographer, it's really frustrating that, unless you're the first person out there, you're forced to take the same exact picture every one else wants to because otherwise you're in their shot. It's so silly. When I was at Mormon Row in June, I set my tripod up low in the grass in front of all the other photographers who were standing in the exact same spot around each other and got yelled at. Liked....dude....it's a small tripod in the grass, removing from your photo is not an issue and I even set up a remote trigger and stood well off to the side out of everyone's view. I'm sorry I don't want to take the 357th copy of the exact same photo like the rest of the photographers there. Because of this shit I've made it a habit to be the first one out so no one can complain, but still it's just so unnecessary and selfish on behalf of the photographers.
I totally agree that influencers in general suck, but I think we need to call out some of the inherent toxicity among photographers and strive to be better and more welcoming.
Mesa Arch is a perfect example of OVER POPULATION, I have seen tour busses (3) show up and unload everyone. It is not unusual to see 30 to 50 people there for a sunrise.
Okay but I was wondering what state is NP, … North Pakota? Took me a minutes to pull out “national park”
It's definitely not just a new thing. I'm absolutely furious with the photographer who, way back in 1980, blew the entire top off of Mt St Helens just to get a photo of an open crater.
I hate when that happens, don't you?
smh my head
Lmao
Dude. That was Me! I can't believe anyone even noticed. Just a chunk of rock anyway.
😱
I am an Eagle photographer and have had conflicts with idiots who just want the shot. That's why I use an 800mm lens and stay far away - and still get fantastic images - patience and respect for wildlife
Meanwhile you eat mcdeath, Tyson and Perdue
@@unbroken1010what?
@@Black_Jesus3005 you respect wildlife but take part in the senseless heinous torture and slaughter of the meat production system
@@Black_Jesus3005I’m guessing he’s probably a vegan or something.
@@unbroken1010 I want a Chik-Fil-A sandwich.
This is why I never disclose exact locations with my photos. Also it’s why I prefer night sky photography..lol
The only way you can move stars around is by dropping some acid or shrooms, but no harm done, and the resultant photos can be used to verify how effective the hallucinogenics were. Sorry, I've had too much espresso.
Influencers have ruined, just about, everything. They remind me of the 'popular' kids, in high school, who were popular because they told you that they were.
Literally the worst types
Great analogy and you are so right. 😢
Influencers are merely hipsters with a camera. Smug narcissists.
I agree that influencer culture is awful and encourages a lot of this kind of shitty behavior that ruins popular photo spots, but i also think this is a good opportunity to address where the photographers actually cross the line into being the assholes (I say this being a photographer myself).
Just recently I visited Grand Teton NP and went to photograph the famous barn at Mormon Row. It was the second time ive been there this year and both times i was just appalled by how toxic the other photographers can be to people. It's honestly really off-putting. It's so easy to get in your head about getting your shot, that you forget these places are there for everyone to view/enjoy. It's one thing to be that obnoxious person that's going in front of everybody and taking selfies for a ridiculous amount of time or just standing there in front without even taking a picture, but people just passing through to take a look should not be getting yelled at by photographers there to get a picture. Literally anyone that tried to cross in front to get to the other side got immediately yelled at and scolded to go around, even though the entire group of photographers apart from me and a couple others were on the edge of the walking path with nothing but soaking wet tall grass behind them. Yelling at people to go around wgen you leave them nothing but mud to wade through, ridiculous. Not only is this uncalled for for the people just walking through, but in a day and age where Content Aware Fill can remove somebody from your photo at the click of a button, it's just such unnecessary malice.
If someone is being rude and overstaying their welcome in front of your shots, than sure ask them to move, but someone just showing up to take a peek or cross through getting yelled at is really ridiculous behavior and turns people off of the hobby and photographers in general.
Even as another photographer, it's really frustrating that, unless you're the first person out there, you're forced to take the same exact picture every one else wants to because otherwise you're in their shot. I'm always respectful of not obstructing other's photos, but i also don't want to go to a special place just to be forced to capture it from the same perspective as the 40 other people that showed up that same morning. It's so silly. When I was at Mormon Row in June, I set my tripod up low in the reeda in front of all the other photographers who were standing in the exact same spot around each other about 15 yards back and got yelled at for ruining their shots. Like....dude....it's a small tripod in tall grass, removing it from your photo is not an issue or even a hassle and I even set up a remote trigger and stood well off to the side out of everyone's view so i could be respectful and less obstructive. I'm sorry I don't want to take the 357th copy of the exact same photo like the rest of the photographers there, but it's also hardly even a problem for me to set my camera in the bottom third of your shot where its not even in front of the subject. Because of this shit I've made it a habit to be the first one out so no one can complain when i dont set up in the conventional/typical spot, but still it's just so unnecessary and selfish on behalf of the other photographers to force everyone else to conform when its so easy to just let people do their thing within reason.
I totally agree that influencers in general suck, but I think we need to call out some of the inherent toxicity among photographers and strive to be better and more welcoming.
This is crazy. We were there just last year and nobody was there when I got my photo from the road and it was about 4:30 in the afternoon right before sunset. Nobody was at snake river lookout when I got my shot there either.
These folks you speak of aren't going to consider anything but themselves and what they want. It's a very selfish world we live in.
That's why pacifying is wrong.
Sometimes an Ass whuppin is called for!!!!
Photographer take pictures because they appreciate the beauty and art of the subject/activity. Influencers take pictures because of the popularity of the subject, that's why they don't appreciate the subject and trash the place they took the picture at. In short, Influencers do it because they want attentions, photographer do it because they want to preserve the art. That's how I differentiate them. On the side note, I heard that some underwater photographers would break off the coral after taken their photo so the photographer is the only person in the world who have that picture, can sell it for lot of money and no one can compete because the scene/subject is destroyed (I'm underwater videography person so I heard stories while on dive trip)
I was on a landscape photography workshop in New Zealand in April 2019. The crowd at the ‘That Wanaka Tree’ was ridiculous. Also, I had my tripod and camera set up at blue hour, and some woman from a bus tour decided to hold her smart phone in front of my lens and would not move it.
I’m willing to bet that the Wanaka Tree was vandalised by a fed up local. The price of real estate had also skyrocketed.
Social media has ruined photography, for sure. Much like MP3 files, the industry has dumbed-down, and now everybody with a cell phone is a "photographer." The industry has gone cheap in every way. Everything has reduced in value, including the finished product. The magazine industry is all but dead. Good luck getting any corporation to pay for the true cost of post-production (Photoshop) hours. Now that I'm near retirement, I'm not afraid to speak the truth about this profession. Regarding etiquette, professional photographers have mostly broken rules when necessary, but did it with courteous, appreciative intent. Sophia Coppola famously shot the street scenes in Lost In Translation "kamikaze" style. They had no permits, and no budget for permits. If they hadn't gone "kamikaze," she would not have gotten the street footage that she got, and she wasn't willing to make that sacrifice for the film. On one Tuscan visit, I emptied the main piazza (very small) of its over-loaded garbage cans before getting the photo I wanted. I put every garbage can back, with its garbage, before leaving the scene. To expect the new Instagram/RUclips hoards to behave in a courteous, professional manner is simply unrealistic. All the tech manufacturers are cashing in by selling stuff to anyone who wishes to create content. That means, anything goes to get that content. Society is doomed, with a camera in your face at EVERY turn.
My instance was a local chapel here in Kansas City. Gorgeous location, and a client wanted it for her senior photos. So next steps were to reach out to the church's management to see about permission, cost, etc. A few emails back and forth and I set up a date and time to tour the grounds, take scouting shots, and also introduce myself and talk to them, meeting the office manager and pastor.
And during that meeting they told me that I was "the most respectful photographer" they'd ever talked to. And relayed to me how numerous times photographers just... showed up to do a shoot. They'd look out the windows and see people just... set up and do a photo shoot. Worst one for them was when a local political candidate tried to film part of an ad there, which had the potential to jeopardize that church's non-profit status with the State and Federal government. My jaw was on the floor as they were telling me this. I thought I was just... doing what everyone would expect, but apparently I was the outlier...
And they did not charge me anything for the shoot, but I left them a cash donation as well. Not just as a thanks for using the property, but also to keep open the goodwill so they'll be a lot more likely to say Yes next time I reach out. So I'd say it's a rule of etiquette to make a donation to a private property owner where they are not charging you for access for a shoot.
Here's one other thing to bear in mind: just because a place is public doesn't mean you can do a photo shoot there. Here in Kansas City we have several parks where you cannot do a photo shoot without a permit. No exceptions. And photographers being disrespectful is how permit requirements get installed. Always ask for permission before doing a shoot on private property, and check with the local government before doing one on public property, as both will save you from... needing to interact with law enforcement.
I had an 1890 house that I renovated. I also landscaped. I had people climbing over my locked gate to that photos and also video themselves with the house or the yard as their background. A locked gate.
Here in South Africa visitors (usually from outside Africa) to our national parks do not always realise that they are not in a zoo or a BBC documentary...I have seen someone get out of a car to take a photo of some lions less than 50m away...2 weeks ago in the Kalahari, the game at a waterhole scattered and we could figure out why...and then saw that someone had got out of their rental 4x4 to take pic.....
No respect or etiquette at a sighting ...especially it is a Lion, leopard or cheetah....then chaos can ensue...
We usually have 2 x 400 2.8s sticking out of one side of the vehicle only to have someone drive between us and the leopard sighting and hold up an ipad😂😂😂......
Or drive into a herd of buffalo or elephant..those beast can be mean.....
At certain scenic points, the staff have to go around breaking down the little stacks of stones balance on each other😢...
As an amateur I never disclose locations. I approach photography like Golf, I shoot them as they are. I don't do people, except at family events. I use natural blinds for wildlife and a Nikkor 200-500 and you're still looking to get closer. In my youth I was a hunter so knowing wildlife helps.
I think that there are clearly lines that can be crossed where it comes to causing disturbances or making alterations of nature, but I also think that when we start trying to make rules or taboos against moving a leaf or a stick or other such things that it really hurts the cause of trying to keep those "more serious" lines from being crossed.
When the most nature-conscious possible person goes on a hike, they crush leaves and sticks, they move pebbles and track mud with their feet, etc. No matter how hard they may try, their mere presence changes animal behavior. Even if you don't make a sound out there - a near impossible task in itself - your scent can put animals on alert for large distances. In a dozen ways, a person's mere presence on a hiking trail or out in a national park can change the way animals in that area behave for hours after they're gone. Even a landscape photographer who does nothing but set up a tripod and take a photo changes the each place they go by their very presence.
This doesn't mean we shouldn't try to limit our impact or that we shouldn't have some standards or "rules" that we respect, but I think many of the standards that you sometimes hear discussed go way over the line into the unreasonable, the unrealistic, and the illogical, and to me the real harm is that these make a lot of people fail to take the good and reasonable standards seriously. I bet that lying behind a lot of people who go out to a park and cut down an entire tree to get the composition they want or who go to a wildlife refuge and do something that harms an animal is the feeling that rules shouldn't be taken seriously that they got after someone get chastised for moving a stone a few feet.
The most important non-disclosure is protecting rare wild animals, especially owls; it really brings out the hordes.
That pony story broke my heart. I hope the people that did that feel guilty about it for the rest of their lives.
I don't mind moving a branch but it's better to return it to its original place afterwards. And I'm bringing plastic bag, this I've learned from geocaching where the rule is "Cache in, trash out". Other than that - leave no trace.
Thank you for questioning your responsibility.. we all need to question it.. because we influence one another. It's true.. "There's a reason - surfers don't tell others their surf spots and fisherman don't talk about their fishing holes."
exactly ---- as a photographer for 40 plus years, i expect to work for my shots, not just follow others to 'hot' spots. Near all hots spots are a total waste of time photographing now .
That's the reason when taking pictures of nesting Osprey I don't give the location.
The ‘influencer’ is in the picture. The ‘photographer’ takes the picture. That’s how I see it anyway.
I've always hated the term "influencers". I know that people with channels do have followers and these followers can be influenced to buy products and services. But how shallow and brain dead do you have to be to buy something just because someone else uses it. And I understand that the younger the follower the more easily they are influenced. But, do your own research people and don't do something just because someone else does it. Which brings us to photography. Photography is much easier to do digitally than when it was analog. That's why so many people do photography now. If it was still analog would so many people be doing it? No. So, with the inclusion of more people, all kinds of people, doing photography, you are going to get a certain percentage of those people who have no respect for others or the environment they are photographing. One of my biggest pet peeves is selfies. I can't count the number of times that I've seen people use majestic mountains as a background to photograph themselves. Then hit the road for the next incredible place to use as a backdrop to photograph themselves. Having said all that, I realize I'm not going to change the current state of affairs. But, it's gotten to the point where many national parks are considering limiting people by allowing busses only. And that's just not going to work for serious photographers. That's my rant for the day. Now get off my lawn. 😅
"But how shallow and brain dead do you have to be to buy something just because someone else uses it"
Three words: Nike...Air...Jordans
I know there were more before this, but that's the earliest I can remember being exposed to.
@@aaronw8606 More understandable if you were a young person who admired Michael Jordan and you wanted to be like Mike. At least, he was arguably the best basketball player ever.
Moraine lake is one of them! $80-$100 to reserve a spot on the bus for that 4/5am early morning sunrise shoot! 🤦🏻♂️
@@camilo8cheryl Last year I stayed at Moraine Lake Lodge for a couple nights at the end of the season because I'd heard how crowded the road and parking lots get. The lodge is fine and very convenient, but very expensive. I went outside and saw a long line of people. Thirty minutes later the line was still there. They were waiting on a bus. I would have been miserable. I don't know what the answer is. But, I hope it isn't busses into national parks.
In 2001 a photographer was camping under Delicate Arch, a major Utah icon. His campfire was too close to the arch and left permanent burn marks.
In Minnesota I came across a location where a rare orchid grew. The orchid grows in weed choked ditches. One location had a rare color form. Well a photographer, obviously wanting clean images cut down all the close weeds. The orchid was unable to be stand without the other plants around. A small harm, but a harm non the less.
Some jerk in the UK took a chain saw to "the lone tree" that stood next to Hadrian's walls for years. Many photographers visit the tree in a national park and now its just laid on the wall.
Manhattanhenge in NYC was ruined about 20 years ago. I used to have the bridge over 42nd street all to myself on the day of the year it would occur. Then word got out on social media and it became an absolute mob scene with the rudest bunch of people all fighting to get the shot for their instagram.
I have two "good" stories. First if you've seen the great Tom Hanks movie Cast Away. That beautiful uninhabited island in the film became so famous developer came in a built a resort hotel there.
The second, on vacation we wanted to get closer to get a better photo of a spectacular desert dune. While it was perfectly legal we drove our suv off road, got stuck in the sand and embarrassingly had to call the police for help. We unintentionally became one of those irresponsible people who do something dumb and need to be bailed out.
Conservationists, Old-school hikers, backpackers, Scouts and Guides have long been taught to "leave no trace" and take pride in packing out what they pack in. I expect the inconsiderate packs of feral monkey-see-monkey-do "photographers" will start to dissipate as soon as they figure out AI enough to make images out of thin air and call them their own from the comfort of their own home. Of course that doesn't touch on the commodification of nature by every other "outdoor sport" industry.
The pony incident was actually a new born foal, absolutely despicable.
Omg
!! 😢😢😢😢
Noooo!!! 😢
They will feel that moment for the rest of their lives. So be it…. every single day.
The old adage used since I was a child hiking or backpacking was "Leave only footprints"
This is one of the reasons why I love macro photography so much. You can do it almost anywhere, because your subject is so small, and you're so close to it, that it really doesn't matter if there are other people around.
The downside is sometimes you spend a lot of time in awkward positions to get the right angle for a shot, and if there's people around, you can get some strange looks.
Blooming fields (especially in iconic locations) are increasingly devastated each year. We've got very famous crocus fields in the Polish mountains. Currently, there is no season without people trespassing and destroying nature just for an Insta shot :( Yeap... Influencers are killing not only photography, they are killing common sense.
I live not too far from the Sleepy Hollow Farm and the selectmen from Pomfrit VT and Woodstock Vt decided to close the roads surrounding this location due to the traffic and all the other things you mentioned. There are reports of others in the are coming home to find strangers sitting on their porches or having picnics on their lawns.
Good , the land was no one's to begin with. You whining that somebody was taking photos in your acres of land? Don't shoot anyone for trespassing..
It might be some people are sooo clueless as to think that a place named Sleepy Hallow is some kind of official rest stop with nice porches to picnic on.
Yes, there's that kind of dumb people.
@@unbroken1010 There are plenty of PUBLIC parks to enjoy a picnic - stay off PRIVATE property. Like it or not, that’s the way the world works.
@@RandumbTech you don't always know when it's " private". And you stole the land to begin with. Show some respect, keep it walking
if it has a house and porch it's private, if it has any human created structure and it not a state or national park or forest service rest stop it's PRIVATE. We can't do anything about what happened 500 years ago and BTW if you were a "visitor" in many tribal territories back then you would be killed!@@unbroken1010
And yesterday, 29-9-2023, we were told that a VERY famous tree in a place called The Sycamore Gap, had been cut down by vandals. This 300-year old tree was a famous landmark near Hadrian's Wall in the north of England, beloved by photographers and film makers. It featured in one of the Robin Hood films. A 60 year old man and 16 year old boy have been arrested but it it too late, the damage has been done. Why did they do it? Who knows? They wanted their 15 minutes of fame for being mindless morons? They were 'influenced'? Only they know why they wanted to destroy a thing of beauty. It would not have been possible to keep this location secret but would have been far better if it had been. Great video Chelsea and Tony.
Last year two influencers ruined a location by leaving beer cans , food packaging, and human waste behind. Luckily, the local authorities caught them in the act of trespassing.
Re: Culture and Travel photography. My favorite thing to do when traveling is to book with a local photographer. I’ve had great experiences with people passionate about their hometown/land. You can you avoid cultural mistakes. t’s so fun and educational, plus helps to support a local photographer. Often they can get special permission for places, or at a minimum get you to some great shots.
That's a great idea! I really hadn't thought about it, even though I was exposed to it through a NYC photographer that holds street photography classes. He also advertises that he can be booked to show you locations in New York to get amazing, but unique photos.
There is someone that runs boat trips on the Isle of Skye in Scotland that feeds the eagles so he can guarantee that his passengers will get close up shots. The biggest issue is that he only does this when the season is on, so in the off season you get dying eagles because that expected food source dries up.
I remember learning in my history of photography class in college that Ansel Adams used to also chop down trees in Yosemite to get good shots 🤦🏽♂️
I remember a few years ago, I was in a certain landscape photographer’s 2 day workshop and he related a story that some photographer had cut down this very old gnarly tree in Garden of the Gods, Colorado Springs that was a popular photo. Because he wanted to have the last photo of that scene.
He should be presented with a nice framed copy of his photo of the tree - to hang on his prison cell wall. Crap like this is why I hate people.
Man up and say the name
@@patmx5I would not go so far as the private funded broke prison system. I bet you wanted to jail people for the nonsense Jan 6 walk. A fine and paying to bring another tree in is enough.
I'm a wildlife photographer as a semi professional hobby but what I do is to never share the positions I went to. I dont want people to go there and try and find the animals I found. Not because I'm snoby or so, but I fear that if I would share it, there might be so many people all of a sudden that the animals get "hurt". I already had it some times that I found active fox dens and then people kept asking me where I found it. I never told them cause again, I dont want to many poeple to actively find it and disturb the animals.
There is no respect anymore!!!
Some people burn iconic wrecked ship for intetesting picture, other stuff fish with polystyrene foam to get a good picture of fishing bird of prey. In population, at least 3 percent of people have no empathy. That's quite a big pool of potential influencers.
Photography is the least of the things they've ruined.
I think now, in life, when we do ANYTHING, we really should consider the impacts of 8, 9 billion people doing the same thing. Because what gives us the right to do something, if 8 billion people can't also do it. Therefore, we should NOT do these things that would destroy the environment around us. Of course, we do it all the time, like just by driving - where does everyone think tyre rubber goes as the tread wears down. Whenever you look at some selfie or photo of someone on Instagram somewhere "pretty" - just look at the ground where they're standing. Usually the ground is completely eroded down to bare soil, nothing growing anymore.
I live in Alaska and we get a lot of tourism of various sorts. A few weeks ago I was headed out to do some fishing and came on a bunch of cars stopped in the middle of the road, and a bunch of tourists looking at a moose cow and her calves. Except that they weren't looking at them - nearly everybody had their backs to the moose, taking selfies. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Eventually itll be a grizzley bear and the problem will take care of itself! Hopefully.
Sounds like a good way to win a Darwin award.
The drone issue can be critical near National Park areas. That guy who flew his drone into the Grand Prismatic Spring damaged a national treasure.
As a landscape photographer I loath social media like Instragram (of course I am on it). As all these places BLEW UP with selfie taking, snap shot taking smudge over their phones lens "photographers" and influencers in national parks, state parks, provincial parks (Kananaskis Country, Alberta has exploded with visitors). Honestly, I have sort of given up shooting landscapes and moved to portraits because of this insanity.
The wildlife stories show why someone needs to get eaten by a shark or bear from time to time: respect.
A guy once commented that he likes to use cheap plastic bags when doing wildlife photography so when photographing an animal he shakes the bag to make the animal look towards him before he takes the shot. Not only is that a complete disregard for wildlife by unnecessarily disturbing them but also collecting cheap plastic bags is bad for the environment and he admitted he does eventually throw them away.
I lived just outside Tucson for 10 years. I saw people every year taking pictures in the cotton fields and pushing down plants or picking cotton to take as a souvenir. This was a major pet peeve for me. Destroying a cash crop or taking some is stealing. Be respectful people.
I enjoyed the episode. This is one of my favorite photography channels. Thank you!
I've been getting aerial shots (and video) of Vermont for several years now. I am always aware of property privacy. If I see a shot I'd like to get from the air (a barn, farm, etc.) and I know that the drone would have to fly over someone's property, I ask the owner for permission. In exchange for letting me fly over their property, I offer to take an additional picture of their home (property) from the air, and then email the picture to them, so they can print and frame it. So far, it's worked out well.
I love the signs I sometimes see…”take only memories, leave only footprints”. Also, typically photographers say “look at this!” While influencers say “look at me!”.
This is a very confusing subject because sometimes the line is blurry or not defined. I'm guilty of going on the street to photograph a parade because even, when I get there early, people will always ease their way in front of me, past the barricade blocking my view and theyre not told anything so i also, respectfully ,get on the street and photograph. I've gone on the side/front of a stage to photograph a performance. I did ask the "official" photographer/videographer if the spot i was at was ok and not blocking. I completely gave up on drone flying. You basically can't legally fly those things anywhere. Not close to an airport,not above private property,not above public place, not in a state park etc,etc etc..🤦
Second year in row I had to file complaint with Forest dept. here in India just because of the scourge of "bird photographers" have been harassing elusive Painted bush quails.
Politeness. Respect. Social conscience. It goes for everything, including photography.
Good episode but it didn’t begin with influencers. Before paparazzi Ron Galotti had a restraining order against him from Jackie Onassis for harassing her and her family, he almost killed JFK Jr as a little kid. John John was exiting Central Park on his bike to go to his nearby family apartment and Galotti jumped out from behind a Bush to ambush his subject as Kennedy was turning onto Park Ave. The frightened child was so spooked he swerved into traffic and nearly got run over by a car. Most privacy laws regarding photographers and celebrities have precedent set by the multiple cases of Galotti’s unethical tactics that sometimes crossed the line towards assault when he was stalking the Kennedy clan.
Now because of social media, every time we have a super bloom it brings out thousands of people to take their selfies amongst the flowers not caring a bit , that they trample them to death to get their shot showing how cool they are.
Plus, it damages the soil, resulting in inability for the flowers to re-grow the following year, and so on. Sigh.
I think the biggest problem is not respecting the location and the people present. I have been at a couple of events recently with a photo clubs. We photographed the events but what I saw was photographers being respectful of those around us and because of that we were able to get some interesting images of the events. The key was being respectful. If in doubt if a photo can be taken, ask first. Good point about traveling and knowing the local law especially for street photography.
As someone else noted, photographers are behind the lens while influencers are in front of the lens. A key difference is a photographer is more interested in the photo while influencers are more about them than the shot.
Many places I used to go to are now ruined by too many Photographers, just an example I used to go to one place in Florida to photograph Great Blue Herons. When I first went there, I was with two or three other Photographers, If you went there now, you could not get spot there are so many Photographers there.
Photographers get so wrapped up in their work that they need to be periodically reminded of the ethics of what they do. Thank you for doing this service.
This is why working tug boats and ships are one of my favorite subjects to photograph. It is very hard to take the same photo of the same boat twice, and it is a considerable and fun challenge just to get out there to get that shot.
In the early 50s, when I first visited Tahquamenon Falls in Michigan's UP, there was a sign there that said "take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints" . Last week (Oct, 2023) we revisited the falls and there is a new modern sign with the same message.
It was a good message in the 50s and it remains so today.
“Leave No Trace” is the simplest way to fix all these issues. I’m a backpacker first, leave no trace principles have been taught for decades. It’s not new and for decades it worked to preserve Washington’s majestic wildernesses. We did our job so these generations can experience them in their best light. It’s time these younger generations start doing theirs. Leave No Trace, 7 principles learn them remember them and practice them. Save what’s worth saving and look to Washington’s Alpine areas as hope it can work. Spread the word!
I live just outside Yellowstone, and there have been several drones crashed into hot springs and were seriously disturbing nesting osprey and other animals, which is why they got banned. The noise is just so disruptive. As for when we shouldn't divulge exactly where we are, if I get a picture of a particular animal that I know an area will be swarmed over by people, I wait to post it for a few days and then say something like "I saw a bear with cubs a few days ago between Madison and Gibbon Falls" etc.
Most of the places I go to for bird photos have rules against feeding the wildlife. I obey this request but quickly found that others do not. So, when I find birds flocking to that hollow stump where the peanuts fell off the maple tree, I take advantage and get some shots. I have wondered many times if this is ethical. It's like, I didn't do it, I just took pictures ... 😮😮😮
The challenge for a photographer is to capture a fantastic photo of what is actually there without altering it. IMO
Depending on what you mean, that's not actually possible. You alter the look of a landscape by taking a photo. You choose a specific focal length, aperture, angle, height, time of day, etc.
If there really is a coke can in a beautiful meadow, will you point your camera away from it? It was actually there, right? And, what f-stop does reality have? What shutter speed is there in reality?
They've closed down 2 epic fall locations in VT, Sleepy Hallow and Jenne's Farm. Both locations are closed except for locals for 3 weeks in Oct... Photographers are just as bad. When I was at Jenne's Farm a few years back, 3 tour vans parked and walked right by the fence telling us to stay out of the field. You try to point it out and they don't care.
Tony, you're so right about how much photography has boomed. 8 years or so ago there was only 3-4 photogs out at New Castle NH in below zero temps for the sea smoke. Last year when I went there was 20-30 people now. We need to stop tagging locations.
All getting the same shot of the lighthouse as everyone else before them.
Excellent topic. I'm really glad to see someone covering this. I get SO upset to hear some of these stories! (I hadn't heard about the pony. That's just awful!). Have I been guilty of some of the things you spoke about? Yes. I've also picked flowers or leaves. I take a lot of photos of mushrooms (I'm a nerdy science teacher), and I have picked dirt and leaves off of mushrooms to photograph them. (I've never picked the mushrooms however.). Not sure I consider those things particularly egregious. I've carved initials in trees. But, like Maya Angelou said, "When you know better, you do better." One thing I feel particularly bad about was handling a little newt. I had no idea the oils on my skin could burn their skin. But once I learned that, and realized I had likely stressed the newt, I learned a very important lesson. But there is a difference between not knowing any better and just not caring. That's why a video like this is so valuble. Hopefully, it will help people realize the effects of their actions BEFORE they make poor decisions. And hopefully, for those who maybe just didn't care, they might see their actions in a different light now. So, thank you!
They probably didn't get through too much of this video anyway.
I don't want a selfie with an animal or a person/celebrity or whatever. I do not want my photo taken, for the sake of posting a picture online, selfies are DUMB.
I recently visited Monument Valley during the golden hour. Several influencers ruined the experience as they danced and strutted around for the camera, as the normal visitors and reputable photographers patiently waited their turn. It was embarrassing that these individuals were so unaware.
There's a old saying in England, I think it came from Alfred Wainwright, that says "take nothing but photographs, leave nothing but footprints". It's a good thing to follow!
It’s not just influencers, it’s a huge part of photographers as well, that don’t respect the places they’re visiting.
It easy how not to be that person. Have respect!
Thanks for talking about this. It's getting out of control.
It's puzzling how those who lack respect and knowledge can be considered "influencers." Who decided to give them that label? It's concerning how easily some people blindly follow others.
In Marin Co. California is a famous boat wreck called the Point Reyes. It ran aground off Inverness. For decades it was a favorite photo site for locals and tourists heading out to the national park, Point Reyes. About five years ago some young "influencers" burned it to the ground while photographing it with burning steel wool. I guess there was a fad of lighting steel wool on fire and spinning it around for spectacular effect.
One group ruined it for everyone else. It still riles me every time I drive past it!
As both a photographer and a travel writer, I don't give out exact locations. I will note the neighborhood or general location, but if I find a beautiful spot or a great location, I don't reveal it. The same with vanlife. I talk about my vanlife in general, but I don't reveal my favorite spots. Plus, part of getting those shots is the adventure in discovering them.
My Opinion is , if it's someones private residence and they give you " permission or written Consent " To photograph a subject on their private property , I feel it should be it an ethical and moral responsibilty to protect and not disclose the location to help insure their privacy , But also to be artistically truthful to show there's truth shot is not fabricated computer generated and such a place does exist , It's fine to use a much broader more general location for labeling Ex: the Country or State where the shot was taken But nothing Specific .
I'm not a native Texan, but I currently live in Dallas. My first experience with bluebonnets was at The Circuit of The Americas. Moto-GP is in April and I was in Austin to photograph the race. There were patches of bluebonnets all around the track. I photographed them between races, but I refused to walk on them or place my camera on them.
My general rule when shooting people, places and things (animals, trees, architecture, etc) is to not do anything that I would not like done to myself. This includes severing limbs, defacing the body, stepping on toes, etc. It means interfering as little as possible. If clean up or grooming is needed and it is okay to do so then I will. Removing the branch is a great example, unless the branch is your subject. I am not a commercial photographer. Photography is an art. Mine starts with the scene. I am not looking to alter the scene and make it more perfect. It was perfect enough for me to stop in the first place. I am looking to capture that scene from a different perspective then show that perspective to others.
Have you guys thought about the fact that it is nearly free to take photos now, and that manipulation (within reason) is easy? Once you have a camera or even smart phone you can shoot an unlimited number of images while spending no money. Then if you are computer literate at all, you can make a mediocre photo into something pretty good. Here is my point: when I was shooting with film (for 30 years, until I went to digital about 20 years ago), it was expensive to shoot very much especially in large format which was what it took for great photos. Then it took hours in the darkroom if you wanted to make things just right. Compare to now- I know a woman who shot 4000 digital images in a one week vacation. That would have been 110 rolls of 35mm film, 36 exp. or 250-300 rolls of 120. PLUS processing which costs more than the film does. So with film a lot of this was kind of self regulating. Serious photographers went out, set up tripods, carefully composed, and VERY carefully set aperture and shutter speed, then took only a few shots of a given subject. And don't even get me started on the videographers, like the one I saw in Lisbon literally hanging out the window of a streetcar about to get her head taken off by a sign. And because they are constantly recording, you can't get out of their way between shots. I think that one thing that multiplies all of this is that people can make a few bucks with their travelogues on sites like the one I am on now.
Hi Chelsea and Tony, I have enjoyed your output for many years now, a decade ago I knew little or nothing about photography, now I think I know a bit more some of it thanks to you. For me knowledge of any topic is a gradual accretion of useful information, to be useful it usually has to be coherent, consistent and logical, it all needs to 'fit' within a coherent framework, at no time can I ever claim that anything that I know is 'true', what I do get from time to time is very clear proof that something that I thought I knew is in fact false, with careful critical evaluation it is usually possible to establish that beyond reasonable doubt, thus the body of my knowledge is enlarged!. One could say that the original idea that turns out to be wrong was a mistake and that the only way I can learn anything for sure is by making mistakes!, this might not be well understood in our derelict culture but this is in fact how it really works, making mistakes spotting and correcting them is the only way forward, only when the error ois overlooked or denied does anything go 'wrong'.
I remember when a Film crew came to the College garden in Cambridge where I was working at the time and asked me to move a daffodil plant in flower nearer the base of a tree so that it would fit in the camera shot!, at the time I was quite shocked by their indifference to the life of the plant!.
Cheers, Richard.
In a city here in Brazil, several people and photographers started going to sunflower plantations to take photos, at first they were professional photographers and then everyone started going to take photos with their cell phones, I saw this news a few years ago and an owner complained who kept pulling out the flowers to take photos and damaging their plantation, since access was easy to do, today I don't know how the owner is dealing with the situation.
Photographers create art to share with the world. Influencers create content to make profit for themselves.
Yup, one is art the other is just narcissism caught on video/photo
The only difference between a tourist and an influencer is followers. I think blaming influencers is a little too narrow sited, but blaming tourist 'might' be the right level of generalization.
Yes and no. For the most part, what people are talking about when they say "influencers" is the people being in front of the camera instead of behind and taking 100 selfies etc to have the focus on themselves instead of what they are in front of.
I always call out those fake "photographers" on Instagram that post videos of themselves with a fancy camera with a huge prime lens while all their photos in IG are just more self-videos with no actual photos of their photography work. These jackasses give us legit photographers a bad name.
All in all, good video today. I see that no wildlife, animals, landscape, or people were harmed in the making of this video, thank you both!
I have been doing astrophotography for about a year now. Have several ZWO dedicated astro-cams and so far, five telescopes including a Redcat 51.
Starting to look into DSLRs and CSCs for my first time researching this. You guys have been a fountain of information for me in learning about this.
Looks like I'll probably go for Mirrorless. Was thinking Z6 or Z8. Probably Z8 because I really like this specs on that camera, which I learned from you guys. Hoping to get some wildlife pics eventually. I promise to behave!
Thanks and good day, CS!
As an ecologist, if you're removing loose dead sticks or leaves to get a photo, not something that could provide real shelter for animals, then I think it would be OK. My philosophy when out herping (searching for reptiles/amphibians) get applied to my beginning photography hobby. If you move something out of the way, that the wind wouldn't blow away, put it back in place after the photo is taken. Do not break branches of a tree/shrub to get a photo, but if you can move the branch/twig and tuck it behind another, then just place back as normal when your done. Don't do anything to permanently change the habitat.
A photographer, goes to a location and takes photos of the area.
Influencers, goes to a location and takes photographs of themselves in the said location.
Reminds me of the village named f u c & in Austria where tourists stole the village signages a few times and even caught video taping a sexual act. The village decided to change the name to avoid the head ache.
Some years ago, on a trip to New Zealand, I went to Moeraki to photograph the gorgeous Moeraki Boulders on the beach. I first went in the middle of the afternoon, and it was hopeless - tour buses were lined up and the people from the buses were standing on the Boulders and having their friends take phone photos of them. I returned the next morning about an hour before sunrise and only a few photographers were there. It is best to photograph the Boulders at or near low tide, so you should also plan your trip there so the low tide occurs around sunrise.
About 2010 I started putting together a travel / photography guide - 'Photo Adventures in New Zealand's South Island'. It detailed many popular and not so well known photo locations (and yes, it included the then relatively unknown 'Wanaka Tree'). I got it to draft print stage and then abandoned the idea as I foresaw what was going to happen - the encouragement of the masses who don't really care about photography (or the environment) at all.
Of course, they still came, they saw, they queued (on mountain tops!) all for the sake of a 'look at moi'.
[One of the biggest problems was Apps like 'CamperMate' where users would share awesome wilderness locations which simply couldn't handle the traffic].