Halo 2's Biggest Myth - Is The Battle Rifle Really A Hitscan Weapon?
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- Опубликовано: 21 янв 2020
- For the longest time, it was widely believed that Halo 2's Battle Rifle was a hitscan type weapon. But is that really the case? Let's take a look and find out once and for all!
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Игры
You should do what the beam rifle, spartan laser, and sentinel beam all look like shooting at a velocity of 1
and focus rifle
They look like slow motion in theatre
@@lindaunderling4637 but if you walk through its do you get hurt? What happens if you shoot 2 lasers at each other? Or bullets?
@@criscodisco5239 oh thats interesting. In halo 2 I'd doubt anything, but halo 3 would be interesting.
@@criscodisco5239 They go through since they don't count as a solid surface, I mod Battlefield 1942 and projectiles don't hit each other. Rockets, bombs, torpedos, etc doesn't matter. But you can modify the projectiles to have the properties of a "hittable object" but it can cause the game to crash or some other weird physics like the projectile disappearing with no effect.
Here's an episode idea: on the mission Winter Contingency, right after the Zealot cutscene, Jorge and Noble 6 enter a dark room. A few seconds after gameplay starts, Jorge tosses a flare across the room. My question is: is this flare an actual item which could possibly be obtained and used by the player? or is it a purely scripted sequence?
Yes please!
But 80% chance says it is scripted because it happens 100% all the time.
@@FilthyWeeb1 Yeah, that's what I was thinking. But Bungie has donenplenty of things that could've been scripted but opted for a more gameplay esque approach. (Like the guardian turrets on Snowbound being vehicles, for instance)
@@FilthyWeeb1 it can still be scripted that a weapon would be used. It being a weapon or prop does not change the ability to be scripted
:thinking:
Oooo I like it
Playing Blood Gulch with my friends was how I found out Halo 2's sniper rifles have a max range
We were literally on extreme ends of the map and neither of us were hitting each other. Until I zoomed out and noticed that the smoke trail of his projectile was ending like 10 feet in front of my face
Impossible.
you were LITERALLY on extreme ends of the map???
The sniper shouldn’t have a range limit imo it’s literally a long range weapon
I really enjoy these mythbusting videos, I just find them more entertaining, because I learn a thing or two while watching.
Everywhere I go I always see your comments XD
I’ve been telling people that hit-scan isn’t in Halo 2 for years, i’m just happy someone finally proved it
Same
So if "Just Some Guy with a Mustache" is Jellal with a mustache, and you're "Just Some Guy without a Mustache", does that mean you're Jellal?
Lonewolf1689
...what?
When he shot the slow mo i went oh woah
Another interesting thing is if you melee as you fire the battle rifle, it will interrupt the three-round burst and only fire one or two rounds
Tomahawk M468
There’s too many ways to prove it isn’t hit-scan
@@fanamatakecick97 this particular property proves nothing, as it could fire three consecutive hitscan bullets.
Wowwwwwwwww really? No wayyyyy dude.
bloodgulchpatrick
Ah, really? Idk how programming works, so you’re probably more qualified to make that statement
@@fanamatakecick97 yeah ever see the classic Doom BFG it's both but the 'splash damage' is 40 hitscan shots at once...it can be done with the BR's 3 shots.
I always enjoy the deeply-researched, yet intensely socially-awkward narration in these videos.
Since every weapon is a projectile, can you do damage to yourself with direct hits? Like using a teleporter after shooting a rocket but your own rocket just goes right through you.
Theres a tech called suicide shot so yes
cant wait to send this to everyone who's told me I'm wrong for calling the BR projectile.
they just salty. Tbh tho they had astupid fast projectile though.
The BR is projectile and hitscan. As long as a target is at or under 1 frame of travel time away it's a hitscan. After that it becomes a projectile. That's why people don't really feel that the Halo 2 BR is a projectile weapon. While technically speaking it is a projectile weapon, practically speaking it is almost always hitscan.
Random nerd No
@@Halo2glitchlover22 Yes. This has been confirmed by Bungie devs at some point :)
Random nerd oh ok
You should compare the ODSTs in Halo 2, 3 and Reach
Zevi
Fuck that, do the warthogs
Fanamatakecick I second this
Halo 3 has the weakest
We saw that the power drainer kills them instantly and Halo 4 had the strongest marines for melee
@@fanamatakecick97 that's easy
Halo 1
Instant death on contact
Gun never overheats
Indestructible
Shiro
Doesn’t mean we don’t want to see what’s under the hood tho
The prophets have lied to us
God damnit Tartarus
If they came to hear it's hitscan, they will be disappointed.
the prophets have betrayed us
Connor Hetherington-lipari Take care, what you say is heresy
What would happen if you allowed the spartan laser to affected by gravity?
Viper beam
Lol someone get that laser a viagra!
I read somewhere that the Halo 3 Battle Rifle has slower projectiled and random bullet spread because Bungie intended for fights to last longer (i.e. longer time-to-kill). My guess is that they did this and added the Assault Rifle because they also intended the BR to be a mid-range weapon, not a close, mid and long-range all-purpose ultimate weapon like in Halo 2.
It isn't really surprising that none of the Halo weapons have hitscan, and actually have bullet physics, given that Bungie's Marathon Trilogy also doesn't really use hitscan, and actually uses projectile physics.
Nice music! I like how the music actually switched to halo 3 music when its gameplay came up.
I have been lied to my entire life.
DarthAbhinav the prophets....they have betrayed us
Great Video! This blows my mind! Been playing this game for half my life and didnt know this about Halo 2
Hitscans are linetraces (aka raytraces), that can be whatever length you set in the variables/properties. It is not required to go to infinite. Hidden linetraces that deal no damage are still being used even if the weapon is a projectile -- they're used for determining if the crosshair is red since it's extremely cheap to run a linetrace.
Also, since you explained that the range and projectile speeds run in the same world units, this means that at a tickrate of 30 Hz, the projectiles of the BR travel 13.33 world units in 0.033 seconds on the same tick as firing the BR. That's faster than vehicles, base player runspeeds, and even the crouching animation. 13.33 world units is effectively unscoped BR duel range, double for actual scoped BR duel ranges in just 2 ticks... for all intents and purposes, the BR is effectively hitscan until the 3rd tick.
Ik this has nothing to do with the video but as I was playing my mcc today i was testing uprising and managed to find out how to be a brute
Awesome!
Give generalkidd a tutorial so he can make a vid on it
@@sneakycactus8815 ok ill try to contact him or send him
And is it a natural formation?
Yes
No some one builded it and i must get to somewhere
DJenei
It doesn’t appear to be.
I don't believe so.
Thanks for this information. However, I would've enjoyed seeing a discussion outlining what distances/scenarios warrant leading your shot in H2 and by how much. For example: Is the bullet velocity simply so fast in H2 that the standard sized map won't require leading your shot? Or on Lockout from S1 to BR3 you may want to lead your shot a bit?
It is "functionally" hitscan.
This is a little bit of one of those "well actually" arguments.
A lot of people have known this for a long time but the bullet in Halo 2 travels its maximum distance in a single tick so it's functionally hitscan.
For the sake of discussion we have just adopted this terminology because whether accomplished by raytracing or instant transmission projectiles the gameplay it produces is very similar.
As opposed to Halo 3 where you have to lead your shots.
That's why I still refer to Halo 2 as hitscan and halo 3 as projectile. And while this type of topic is interesting to learn about how the game works in regards to defeating arguments I consider this semantics and this is coming from someone who agrees with you that projectile weapons are good.
I think it's best we just continue referring to it as we have been because that's the functional outcome. No need to explain the interworkings Everytime we all talk about it.
Oh and its important to note Bungie themselves referred to Halo 2 as hitscan in regards to how it functioned.
Favyn I took that literally when I heard people say that though. It devolves over time that people don't understand the reality of the semantic phrase when it's used so much. But I guess it doesn't matter that much. Love your videos btw, big fan👌
@@TheChadPad it is used a lot but it is functionally accurate. It literally changes nothing because the result is the same whether the method of getting there is different or not.
Like I said it's cool to learn about but for the sake of discussion it's best to refer to them as we have been.
Though for accuracy I typically refer to Halo 2 as "functionally hitscan" which I think is still brief and not overly confusing
I must admit I don't know for certain how the halo engine works in this regard so I could very well be wrong and correct me if I am, but it seems unlikely to me that it travels the max distance in one tick unless the Halo games use a very unconventional tick rate. It has a velocity of 400 unit/s and a max range of 40 units which means that it will cover its max distance in one-tenth of a second assuming that a tick is a thirtieth of a second it would actually take 3 ticks to travel its maximum distance which isn't a huge difference, but still.
@@Delta36A1 yes because when you consider frame rate all that happens within the first frame
I never thought the battle rifle was hitscan.
I worked this out years ago. From long enough away you can see the delay and they can avoid it like hell on halo 2
One of the most interesting videos You’ve made.
Makes sense considering Halo 1 and 3 are also projectiles.
Hooray for projectile supporters :D
It surprises me that anyone thought they’d put in effort to develop hitscan AND projectile systems. That would be tons of effort. Plasma weapons are obviously projectile and I’ve never seen a game that has projectile and hitscan.
Hydrated Beans what about newer halos? Human weapons are hitscan but there are still plasma weapons
@@HydratedBeans The tribes fps series?
@@HydratedBeans team fortress 2 has both
@@HydratedBeans Literally Doom
Could you please do a video where you change the velocity/range of the BR to Halo 3s velocity/range and compare them to see if they feel very similar? Also vice versa would be cool too
We need Cursed Halo 2 now
6:44 7:00 I've been trying to tell Halo 2 fanboys for years this happens and they always try to shut me down for it saying it doesn't... It's one of the main reasons I dislike Halo 2's gameplay because ranged engagements are f***ed compared to Halo 3 where a battle rifle can actually hit at long range and snipers can actually hit at extreme range... Big maps played like crap in Halo 2 because of this and is probably why maps that could have been great such as Containment felt like crap...
@@colbyboucher6391 The difference is weather you have to lead your shots or not. If the bullets are so fast that they're borderline hitscan like Halo 2/Reach/4/5 it doesn't work and essentially breaks gameplay.
If you have to use skill and lead your shots with pretty much every gun bar the snipers and spartan lazer like in Halo 3 & CE it does work.
If you're dumb enough to stand stationary when someone is pelting you at range it's your own fault then, if you move around you generally won't get hit but there's still a chance you will.
Halo 3 felt so much more dynamic because of this, Halo 2/Reach/4/5 all feel like a mess in comparison.
On a side note sprint wouldn't be needed if the bullets weren't borderline hitscan either, it would help significantly with map design if it was gone 🤷
Great analysis! So it can be done. They need to have the BR in infinite feel like H2's, and if they bring the reach DMR, maybe match the velocity to that of the CE magnum.
I need help, I am on the 10th mission of Halo Reach and I got stuck in a kill zoneless area. And as far as I know I have to start all over. Plz help. (In the area the hidden weapons crate is
I'd love to see a halo 2 mod that made the velocity of bullets and enemy speeds dependant on how fast the player is moving, turning halo 2 into superhot
I've always considered hitscan to mean something slightly different. When you shoot, it checks your screen for a player in your crosshair and if it finds someone it registers a hit. This is hugely different than the high velocity projectiles you mention because if collision is checked by the host console you'd have to lead your shots like on halo 3. On halo 2 highish ping (not MCC for some reason hit reg sucks) as soon as you're out of red reticle range the guns behaviour changes drastically.
Great video, I just want to note how much more crisp halo 3's gameplay looks compared to 2, you could clearly see what they were going for when they made 2, but it really looks like a beta build for halo 3. Animations and effects are nowhere near as polished as 3, and I still think they're the best to date
Gameplay looks better in Halo 3 but the gameplay of Halo 2 is actually more solid
How powerful is the brute shot and brute spiked melee in multiplayer? Can I shoot someone less times with an assault rifle and go in for the one hit melee???
Plot twist: general heed did not lower the bullets velocity he just increased movement speed by 400
Peace & Quiet oof
At the end of Halo 3 Floodgate there are elites that get dropped off by a phantom and then jump into a hole right after, is there anyway you could find out where they go?
Hitscan weapons aren't inherently infinite range. There's one game I play where the pistols are hitscan and do have a finite range.
I would have guessed halo 5
It's Command and Conquer: Red Alert: A Path Beyond, though most shorten it to A Path Beyond or APB, if that's what you mean.
Exactly. What he is calling a "hitscan" weapon just uses a ray to check for physical objects in its path. It is impossible for a ray to have infinite range, and there is no reason why the game would waste computations to check for collisions greater than the length of the map. TLDR: No weapons have infinite range.
@@theneoreformationist Yeah it was a really odd leap in logic. He can literally see for himself that all of Halo 2's projectiles disappear at max range so there's no reason to conclude that hitscan rays can't also have limited length.
Also something worth mentioning, the real reason that hitscan flag is checked on in both Halo 2 and Halo 3, yet is also inactive is because, while it is something they planned for the game, hitscan technology in 2004 never worked properly and the rays almost always found a way to pass through solid walls and objects without stopping, (because obviously it's an immensely long rectangle that phases through most geometry upon creation) rendering hitscan unplayable in most cases. It was of course not worked out in Halo 2 and 3 either but the flag is still on.
@@poly_g6068 I'm not sure what you mean when you say hitscan tech didn't work properly in 2004, tons of games have used it years before, like Half Life.
A raycast will be drawn from point A to point B, and then checks the collision detected closest to point A (in this case, the player). It will of course go through walls and stuff until it reaches point B, but that's because the line is drawn all at once on one frame. The collision data is just used for the "first" collision to detect a hit, so the only way the game would register a hit through a wall is if that was how it was intended or if the programmers had no idea what they were doing
Hitscan can have damage falloff, you just need to calculate the distance between the target and where it was shot from. That's simple math. The gravity and speed though is proof enough that it isn't though.
What units are the max range and velocity in?
Of course, technically if the bullet is fast enough, the computer will be checking for bullet collisions in its path throughout the length of the bullet's path in one frame. Projectile collisions are "hitscans", they just scan the distance the bullet will travel in one frame. So a fast enough bullet is no different than a hitscan.
Obviously, though, that's not what they meant, and your video does a GREAT job explaining why their myth is false. I'm just a programmer :)
One thing: "hitscan", or more formally, "Ray casting" weapons don't have infinite range because that would require checking for physics collisions along a ray of infinite length (the computer would eventually give up) In fact, only projectile weapons could have infinite range because they would only have to check a finite amount of space one frame at a time. However, most games would eliminate the projectile after a set distance or set amount of time to avoid clutter.
Is it possible to port the brute plasma rifle from odst to halo 3?
I knew this from modding many years ago, never thought to use it to argue people who are saying it's hitscan..
can you do this again except with other weapons and show how crazy the velocity can get
You should change everything in halo 2 to make is slow as hell, it would be a slow mo game mode and record it
The Famous Hacker
I’d play a “matrix” game mode like that
@@trentwerner366 i think it'd be cool, i think if it was done in halo 3 it would be too crazy and in halo 1 it would be too tame as your weapons wouldn't be balanced how they were, as speed was part of the balance
I hope with halo now on pc, once we get all the games released modders will be able to make maps that have the games different variations of guns, like playing on a halo ce map but some of the brs are halo 2 and some are halo 3, I feel it would create an interesting dynamic
Halo 5 does have hitscan. One of the earlier updates altered the railgun from projectile to hitscan, it was in the patch notes.
Halo 5 wouldn't play well with projectile. Players can thrust and sprint. That is why there is a lot of autoaim and hitscan in Halo 5.
Whats it called when i get hit right after taking cover behind a wall?
Latency / desync. From what I understand, it's basically what happens when one person sees one thing but the information about let's say player movement isnt relayed instantaneously so everyone is technically a small fraction of a second behind each other which then ends with a slight timeout effect. Their hits will register slightly earlier than when it occurs on your side and vice versa because it's basically client (a player) vs server packet travel time. That's why some people freak out even if their ping is only 30 but everyone else's is let's say 10, cause it means technically all their shots will register with the server first, nearly an entire frame of animation ahead of you.
(I could be wrong about a portion of the specifics but this is the general idea)
After I had some crossmap RRR snipes that seemed to whiff in H5 BTB, I questioned whether these games were hitscan or projectile. I was actually told by an employee of 343 that every Halo except for H3 was hitscan. Glad to see you prove them wrong
benjaminscello
Just proves my theory that employees at 343 industries don’t know shit about halo which is why their halo games are absolute garbage.
Halo 3 is the only game where its actually noticeable (CE too but not as much). the projectiles in the other halo games travel so fast that you can call it hit-scan.
@@trentwerner366 One of the biggest myths is that 343i consist of mostly ex Bungie employees. However, it's been confirmed that only a hand full of people have worked for Bungie prior to working for 343.
@@alfredolozano7486
That makes a lot of sense.
It feels like the new halo games were made by fanboys who played too much halo as teenagers and not by real artists who have a story to tell and a direction to head in...
I always thought that when they Created 343, mostly fanboys went to work there thinking "I CAN WORK ON NEW HALOS!" and most of the actual creators thought "okay, we told the story we wanted to tell, we went where we wanted to go, time to try something new".
@@trentwerner366 If I remember correctly of the few Bungie employees that stayed I believe only Frank O Connor was significant as well as Vic Deleon.
Wonderful work mate
Halo 5 gotta be hit scan....you are the best Halo RUclipsr always pumping out halo videos everyday man 👊
So with the max range considered would you ever have to lead your shots? If not, then it functions as a hitscan in actual gameplay.
Wow I had no idea. Such a great video.
Is there an online spreadsheet of projectile velocities for all halo weapons?
Is the halo 2 br different between the games? Halo 2 classic, anniversary, and the halo 5 Halo 2 BR req?
How did they deal with the moving so fast it's moved past objects between ticks thing?
They didn't, lmao.
Well, since you mention the sentinel beam, I can tell you that H5 is also projectile weapons. Case in point, if you look from one side to another while firing the sentinel beam at a wall, instead of getting a solid line on the wall you get a series of distinct bullet holes lined up along the axis you rotated on
This is doable with a rapid series of hitscans.
Please give the Spartan Laser slow projectile travel time with high gravity.
GMod (Garry's Mod) has a good way to play around with projectiles vs hitscan. You can use WireMod with "laser"-like tools that essentially tell you what material your cursor is looking at. In any game's sourcecode it can be set up to when a gun "fires" the game finds what surface is being aimed at and applies damage to that 3D object multiplied by the material ID for that triangular face on the object's collision mesh (or hitbox for simpler collision systems or animated characters).
Is the Reach DMR hitscan too or a just a really fast projectile like here?
Every halo game is projectile based. None of them have hit scan of any kind
I'm so glad you made this video. I've been arguing with people online for decades over this... To me it was so obviously NOT HIT SCAN and NEVER EVER WAS!!!
The amount of times people would conclude with "oh you're right about Halo 3... BuT HaLo 2 wAs DeFiNiTeLy hItScAn"
Thanks for this vindication.
343 actually indirectly hinted at what the “travels instantaneously” flag means in their recent Halo update for June. While discussing hit detection issues with Halo 3 they mentioned that the BR’s projectile is marked to “instantaneously update” on the tick it’s fired or something of the like. Basically this just means that on the same “frame” you fire the BR, the projectile will be checked for collision detection. Without this flag, hits that should instantly hit their target would be delayed by 1/30th of a second on the original or 1/60th on the MCC.
I wish that 343 would just try a test playlist with the bullet velocity cranked up in h3. Could be fun
I think you should have 1m subscribers 😁
Keep up the good work
Awesome video bud
Does the Halo 2 BR actually fire 3 projectiles when shot?
The weapons feel like they are hitscans because they are hitscan up to a certain distance. There is a hybrid hitscan/projectile system. Halo 1 to 4 ran at 30 frames per second on the previous gen consoles, and provided that a projectile would reach its target in or under a frame the weapon becomes hitscan. In Halo 3 for example you will not need to lead a target at all with a sniper up to a good distance away because the projectile it fires is really fast and gets really far in 1 frame. The Halo 3 BR in comparison doesn't get as far in 1 frame, and you will have to start leading targets at much closer ranges.
5:07 Max Halo Bullet TIme.
What counts as a ‘projectile’? Could you have a BR fire Scarabs?
U can already do this in mcc. Activate scarab skull and shoot ur br.
A game mode where bullets all travel really slow and have slight drop but do much more damage would be neat.
(I'm thinking 1 hit kill for slower firing weapons, with the sniper rifle having a faster bullet.)
Finally, someone agrees with me
Nighterlev
I actually had a discussion about this in #domain on Installation 00’s discord
This is going to be one hell of an outdated 'I told you so' lol. They'll probably be like. "Oh cool"
Mr P
No one believed me for the longest time
Anyone who played seat could tell you the br isn't hitscan you could kill three enemies next to each other with a single shot by sweeping from one side to the other fast enough the spread the bullets. You also had to lead with your shots for then to hit if the enemy was moving
You just blew my mind! As an aspiring game designer, what makes me think is the fact that the physics engine can handle projectiles going at 400 "meters" per second. If the projectile is about one meter in length, and the game is run at 60 frames per second, then the projectile skips 6.67 meters per frame!!! That would mean some bullets wouldn't even register, but it seems every single bullet fired from the BR hits.
Every halo weapon at 1 velocity
Generalkidd the Halo scientist. He's part of ONI ya'll.
the BR i think the reason for its power or preference among players might be due that the burst of bullets are really FUCKING FAST, or a case of how many bullets can the gun spit out within a second, the bursts are quick and between each burst its quick
@ 4:18 RIP Team mates highground.
episode idea: is it possible to give ally elites a second dual wield able weapon so they can dual wield
Another idea is what causes the player to land in fixed death positions like halo ce instead of rag dolling in the later halo games. I know its possible i just dont know what causes it
Because halo ce has rigged and assigned animations. It doesn't have ragdoll physics at all
@@jackcolson4745 i wonder what causes the non ragdoll animations in the other games. I know that in 3 the fixed positions happen when you’re on a placed platforms such as sandbox forge pieces and elephants
So here's a question. What does the Halo 3 BR feel like at 400 velocity? Does it feel like the Halo 2 BR?
One of my Xbl friends loves Halo 2 and told me weapons in H2 are hitscan. I’m curious how he’ll react to this.
3:32 so the sentinel laser is a projectile based weapon... With infinite range...
A Halo 2 mod with Halo 3 weapon specs :)
Are we sure this isn’t just in halo 2 in the MCC? Was this modding done in classic Halo 2? I can’t find any other confirmation of this.
Great Video
I wish I could do a video with you because I've found some fascinating things in Halo 2 especially the differences between Halo 2 and Halo 2 MCC
In MP or SP?
Go on...
Now I wanna play a matrix br match with low velocity bullets
I wonder why the max range is so short though?
When you think about it, the Needler itself proves that Halo always used projectiles and not hit scan.
You mean to tell me the rocket launcher is not hitscan????
unreal
You should check out if you could save the 2 marines in battlefield 3 on the mission Operation Guillotine right after the first T90 explosion. @Generalkidd
What are trigates and the golden Warthog?
You should make a video on why the bodies twitch so much after death. Is it intentional accidental. Thanks in advance and keep up the good work 👍
Multiplayer latency issues. there ya go
SPORTCENTER Mmmm I think your onto something but if i recall correctly it would also happen in the campaign when playing solo
I don't know if this has been done before, but I've got a request: What does the battle between the Covenant Boarders and the marines look like on Cairo Station before they open the bulkhead door during the player's first fight? Is there an actual battle going on between AI, or are those just scripted sound effects that play before the door itself is scripted to burst open?
What do you think man? Use your brain dude
@@EA_SP0RTCENTER Ok... I think it's an actual AI battle that happens before the doors are scripted to burst open.
Am I right?
@@BioGoji-zm5ph it would take up unnecessary space if there was a battle going on behind the door. It's just a 5-10 second looping sfx. The elite and 3 grunts that rush you spawn to the left side of the room the instant the door is blown, you can basically watch it happen. The group of enemies down the hall to the right spawn the moment you walk through the door.
@@EA_SP0RTCENTER Oh. I was wrong. Well... it didn't hurt to ask.
You should do another vehicle comparison
6:09
343 when making the raveger for halo infinite
@Fanamatakecick said to compare all the warthogs in ODST. Halo 3 2 and combat evolved.
So is the dmr in halo reach hitscan ?
I want to play a custom gamemode of Bars only with bullet velocity 10, gravity 1.
I'm waiting for Halo 2 on MCC PC. Foundation FFA Slayer, Rockets with projectile speed of like 20.
I don't think it would be considering that not all of the bullets may hit the target.