Handsome Bus/Homely Bus: The Dennis Domino Story [UK Bus History]
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- In the mid-1980s, the Greater Manchester Passenger Transport Executive wanted to replace its mid-sized buses (Seddon Pennine IV-236) running between Picadilly and Victoria stations. They turned to Ken Mortimer, their in-house industrial deisgner, to come up with a new bus to replace the decade-old small light vehicles serving the shuttle.
The result was the Dennis Domino, a scaled down version of the Dennis Donminator.
The Domino came in two versions: A stylish one for Manchester, and a more basic bus for South Yorkshire PTE.
A total of 34 Dominos were built.
See and hear the story of the Dennis Domino!
#buses #busmanufacturing #busmania #vehiclehistory #vehicledesign #automotivedesign #automotivehistory #manchester #publictransport #londontransport #londonbuses #sheffield #manchestercity
Disco con Tutti by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. creativecommon...
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Interesting fact, the last trolleybus to be built in Britain, B450CKW which was an SYPTE Dennis Dominator now has the registration plate C45HDT which was from a Dennis Domino. Former SYPTE C53HDT is now preserved at SYTT in Rotherham
Hello! That's very interesting, didn't know that!! Thank you very much for watching!!
Thats at Santoft isn't it? The Trollybus
Thanks Jeffrey, some great shots in your presentation. I do remember these frequent and underpowered Buses at the time in the city, a Turbo charged 6 Cylinder Engine putting out a poultry 130HP on a good day, they must have cost more money than they generated in fares. All the best.
Hello! I'm glad you liked the video and thanks for the memories of the Domino!! Thank you very much for watching!!
Another great and interesting video enthusiastically presented by Jeffrey.
Hello Melanie!! I'm glad you liked the video and thanks again for watching!!
@@MelanieRuck-dq5uo totally agree
@@JeffreyOrnstein No, thank you for your refreshingly unique slant on these topics from across the Atlantic, and, again, you get within ten or eleven miles of my hometown by illustrating South Yorkshire/Shieffield buses. Anyone would think you had been there!
The midi bus link in Manchester was bec the PTE didn’t get the picc vic tunnel to connect these two stations which was a shame as it would of been like a underground for Manchester ,love it in the LT livery ,for me I drove when I first started the dart in 8.5 metre but have now driven all types including the low floor buses ,one bud which I drove was the metrorider we called them bread vans ,glad I went on the big bus rota at Stamford Brook 😊
All the best
Mark 😊😊
Hello! Very interesting about the Picc Vicc tunnel! Yes, I've heard about that project before! Thanks for your experience with the buses you mention and thanks for watching!!
Wasn't familiar with these short buses as they ran in Manchester. London Transport had Bristol BS's that were 24' long and were rather stubby looking vehicles (1975 to 1981), like these. Still there was a need for them. Can't say they were at all interesting and just a box on wheels. Nice video.
Hello! Glad you liked the video! That Bristol BS sounds interesting, actually! Thanks for watching again!!
@@JeffreyOrnstein The Bristol BS (and BL) were Bristol LH's, short and long
@@ROCKINGMAN and to think
Shuttle buses still run round manchester to this day
I well remember the Manchester Dominos. With that noisy Perkins engine they always sounded like a very big bus pretending to be a small one, or maybe the other way round. They were certainly over-engineered, but very tough and very, very stylish.
Hello! Thanks for your memories of the Dominos, and thanks very much for watching!!
It looked fantastic in the LT livery.
They were essentially a shrunken Dominator.
I only rode on the Sheffield examples a couple of times, my main memory is of the noise the engine made especially going up hill , ear defenders would be recommended these days !
LOL, that's interesting to hear (pun intended). Thanks for relaying your experience and thanks for watching!!
Hadn't they heard of sound deadening measures?
Ex SYT Dennis Domino C42 HDT is at the Alton Towers theme park as part of the Nemesis ride
Oh, yes, I did see a picture of that...it looked in bad shape, not sure if it's still like that. Thank you very much for watching!!
I like the Optare. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Hello! Yes, that's definitely true! Thank you very much for watching!!
Me too...South Yorkshire Grit!
I second that, yes less overtly modern but I like it's looks.
@69Phuket West Yorkshire grit 😉 They were built using Olympian body parts, they looked better than the awful Leyland Cubs we had at WYPTE.
The Dart was much simpler in specification, step entry versions having leaf springs, the driveline was a straightforward T-drive layout featuring a Cummins 6BT and an Allison AT545 transmission, initially even a retarder was optional.
Hello! Thank you for the info on the Dart!! Interesting comparison! Thank you very much for watching!!
I much prefer the exterior of the GMPT buses, however, I prefer the interior of the SYPTE buses. Ken Mortimer was a brilliant designer. His design looks very futuristic for the period.
Hello! Yes, Mortimer's designs were great!! Thank you very much for watching!
Thank you for this video. Really interesting to hear about these little buses in my home city - Sheffield. Sadly, I didn’t live on a route that were covered by them, so never got to ride one in service. An interesting fact for you - Sheffield at one time had the Nipper (for smaller areas), the Clipper (a route to serve the railway station, bus station and shopping areas) and the Clopper (a horse bus). Another fun fact Sheffield was the first city to trail articulated buses (bendy buses as we used to call them) and they worked, initially on the Clipper service. Thanks once again Jeffrey.
Hello! Glad you liked the video! The Clipper/Clopper/Nipper sounds interesting, thanks for the info and thanks for watching!!
As an old Leyland Motors Product Planner we TOTALLY misjudged the coming trend for midi-buses feeling that the market would go for heavy and minibuses. We were caught out completely by Deregulation, privatisation, and the truly ground breaking Dennis Dart with its light weight components. I believe Dennis also initially misjudged things with what was basically an ultra-short wheel based Dominator. The Maxwell transmission whilst quite innovative with a clever angle drive configuration was a disaster, combined with the GKN (?) hub reduction rear axle and full sized wheels and tyres resulted in a high cost rather heavy ‘Midi’.
When Dennis came out with the superb Dart, championed by Roger Herd, Dennis’ forward thinking Sales Director, the direction of the British bus market would change forever.
The Maxwell transmission appeared on Tomorrows World at the time : it was so simple even I could understand it, however the electronic control systems are still troublesome in the few survivors.
Hello! Thanks for the information - especially from an "insider!" Very interesting to read!! Thank you very much for watching!!
So is it an early automated manual?
Thank you for this video. I learn something every day, having no idea that my two favourite coach builders (Northern Counties/Optare) shared the Domino. Would love to know both of their histories too, as Roe was before my time.
Hello! I'm very happy you liked the video! And thank you very much for watching!!
The GMPTE Midi buses were brilliant to ride I loved them; The Nippers were transferred to Merseyside saw most of them in St Helens, but I preferred The GMPTE's Midi Buses because they were so nice to ride on.
I used to catch AEC Swift 760 buses with bodywork by Domino Industries Brisbane in Qld and the Northern Counties body style looks a lot like them! They were known as the Domino Metroliner 80 built in the early 80s, later known as the Austral Metroliner. It was the successor to Athol Hedges who built half of the Brisbane City Council (BCC) Leyland Panthers you covered earlier.
The South Yorkshire ones look like a single deck MCW Metrobus mark 2.
They look to have a Kirkstall planetary rear hub axle just like the Metrobus and Dominator.
Strange to see such heavy duty running gear on a little bus.
Hello! Thanks for the info about the Australian buses - have to look up the one you mentioned! Thank you very much for watching!
Thumbs up, great video, this is one of the lines of busses that were ell engineered and survived to do what they were supossed to, not plaged with mechanical malfunctios that kept them from running properly, lots of research went into this it looked like
Hello! I'm quite happy you liked the video!! Thanks for watching again!!
As always, Jeffrey, beautiful! Thank you!
Shared!
Hello John! Very glad you liked the video!!!! Thank you very much for watching again!!
Yet another great video Jeff. Very interesting 👍 keep up the good work 👏
Hello! I'm really happy you found the video interesting and thanks for the great comment!!! Thank you very much for watching!
Had a ride on these buses. They were quick off the mark.
Another superb video, really informative and lots of content. I've lived in Manchester all my life and remember the buses, but did not know much about them... now I do. Thank you for all the effort you must put into each video... brilliant work.
Hello! Thank you so much for your very positive comment!! I really appreciate it, and thank you very much for watching!!
Well said...
A product that was eventually morphed into the timeless iconic Dennis Dart and probably inspired the Optare Solo later on! Great video!
Hello! Glad you liked the video!! Yes, it did become the basis of the great Dennis Dart! Thank you very much for watching!!
Great video and some info that was new to me regarding these vehicles. There are (at least) two of the Optare vehicles in preservation. Spot on Jeffrey 👍😊
Hello! I'm really glad you liked the video!! Oh, thanks for the info...wasn't sure how many of those buses were preserved!! Thank you very much for watching!!
One of the WYPTE cubs is preserved too.
The very 1st pic was same as what my Father drove my seat was the engine cowl wen I was about 3 years old , I'd curl up n go to sleep
It was still the school bus wen I was 7 years old !!!!!
I remember it so well
Hello! Very interesting to hear that!! Must have been a really great little bus!! Thank you very much for watching!
@@JeffreyOrnstein oh yes i remember it well , and all the subsequent fleet as my father worked for the coach company see , i was allways memorized by all the many varied designs , his boss had a ROVER SD1 very posh back then i rode in the back i remember it was like a rolls royce compared tk my fathers Mk3 FORD cortina ( tin )
Great channel love your vids
Thanks 4 replying
Oh yeah .........that little bus , the gear lever used to protude outa the gear box in such a very bad angled way , i csn actually hear the noises of that bus as i type
Keep up ur facinating work
Oh
I absolutely adore BRITISH LEYLAND
And our proud British motor industry
Very nice. Frankly I don’t think they look all that bad.
Yes, they weren't that bad looking at all! Thank you very much for watching!!
Seeing the prices on the front of these buses made me wonder, how much does that inter station journey cost nowadays? 8p in the 70's, 12p in the 80's, increasing to 15p later on. I'd imagine it increased after deregulation. That 8p fare in the late 70's is about £1.50 ish today!
Hello! Oh yes, inflation! I believe I read that at some point, the fare became free. Thank you very much for watching!!
We got the Dennis SLF in New Zealand. I think that is the Dart? I drove one as a school bus driver in Gisborne. We had 4 MAN’s and 4 Dennis’s to cover the new runs instituted in 2014. They were all secondhand, and repainted in a very stylish and eye-catching livery. Originally used in the South Island city of Christchurch, the main problems were the doors which didn’t like frosty mornings. I had one overheat and shut itself down, that was sometimes the other problem.
For suburban runs in Gisborne we had three Optare midi size buses, which were generally reliable. None of the routes had steep hills, but we did take all eight school buses up Kaiti Hill which is very steep. None gave any problems. All those vehicles mentioned had automatic gearboxes. My Dennis had a B145 20 6-cylinder Cummins diesel and SF auto.
Interesting footnote:
My brother worked for Optare in Leeds in the design engineering area, having previously been at Falkirk (Scotland) as engineering director.
We lived in Guildford (Dennis) from 1957, where Aldershot and District Traction ran Dennis Lolines etc.
Now driving MAN buses in Picton, South Island.
Hello! Very interesting to read your experiences with the buses in New Zealand, very interesting! Thank you very much for watching!
Gi Jeffrey, Dad says the Bristol LHS shown(TPJ) A LCBS BN class was one of a batch of narrow bodied variants(7'8") of the 23 seat LHS .He worked with BN's at LCBS garage Hemel Hempstead. Thank you.
Hello! Thanks for the info on the Bristol LHS! Yes, I thought I read that they bought them second-hand from London Country, thanks for confirming!! Thank you very much for watching!
I used the Manchester link a few times. It was handy if there was one about to go but not much quicker than walking if you had to wait. I remember the engine was loud. I did not know about the novel automatic transmission, interesting video.
Hello! Really glad you found the video interesting and thanks for your experience with the shuttle and thanks for watching again!
A midsize bus that would be good to cover is the obscure Mercedes-Benz O402, built by Göppel.
Hello! I will look into that one!! Thank you very much for watching!!
Optare built similar bodies on Leyland Cub chassis, a modified truck chassis in the mid 1980s. The Cub was replaced by the Swift in 1987 or so, itself a modified Leyland Roadrunner truck chassis.
A small point on the Domino; it used Dominator axles and as such used 22.5in wheels, not 16in; even the Dennis Dart used 19.5in wheels, and the Dodge 50-series minibuses also mentioned generally used 17.5in wheels.
Hello! Thanks for the extra info! The 16" wheels came from Wikipedia's Domino page, so that may be incorrect (can't trust them all the time). Thanks very much for watching!!
Yes, we endured the Cubs on the shop hopper service in Bradford, god knows why they thought they'd be good on that service!
GGPTE (Greater Glasgow PTE) used ex Manchester Seddon Pennine 4s in parts of Glasgow where full size buses were unsuitable such as the 29 service to Mansewood & Hillpark to Shawlands & City Centre and the 98 Glasgow Central to Glasgow Queen Street rail link.
Hello! Thanks for the extra info on the the Glasgow buses! Thanks very much for watching!!
@@JeffreyOrnstein You should do the MCW/Optare Metrorider when you have a chance it’s a Midibus with Ford parts
I never knew these buses, they're so cute. Thanks once again for a very interesting video
Hello! I'm really happy you liked the video! And thanks again for watching!!
bedford vas 5 is a midi bus would be good to cover or the later short versions of ymp ymy or ynt i think
coach builders plaxton or duple if you havent covered them already
Hello! Will definitely look at the Bedford Y type!! Thank you very much for watching!
GMPTE is my area, thanks for the upload. Have you considered doing a video on the Optare Metrorider? That was a common small bus GMPTE had as well as other companies.
Kind regards
Hello! Glad you liked the video! I will look at the Metrorider! Thank you very much for watching!
@JeffreyOrnstein great channel by the way, nice to see other nationalities following our transport and giving their opinions. I grew up on the GMPTE network, I worked on the railway for many years, I remember the Leyland railbus, they went on to become the class 142 pacer, their nickname was "the nodding donkey" and some areas called them "the skipper twin" I'm going through your videos as we speak. I'll drop a comment here and there. Your Leyland rail bus video is very informative, I never knew they were trialled in America. 👍
Between 1990 and 1993 I worked in and around Sheffield as a delivery driver for an electrical retailer so probably saw these quite frequently but can't remember them. The abiding memory of the period for me was the work to construct the Supertram in Sheffield along with the hours spent heading to and from the Meadowhall area where I was based.
Hello! Thanks for your memories of the building of the Supertram and thanks for watching!!
@@JeffreyOrnstein We in the rest of South Yorkshire despise the Supertram!
When your bus company needs to ferry little more people than 10 but a bit less than 50.
than the minibus is your friend.
Honestly do not see the optare version as that much worse.
but i am someone who thinks tram from 60 and train sronlgy influenced by 50s are greatest so you know... my stylistic preferences are not idealy atuned to busses (if you are curious than its T3 and EM 475)
Hello! Yes, I like tram and bus designs from the '50s as well!! Thank you very much for watching!
The Optare body looked terrible on thr Leyland Cubs for WYPTE. Both bodies were built using Olympian body parts.
Didnt Ralph Bennett design the Mancunian decker?
Hello! Yes, Ralph Bennett certainly did have a hand in designing the Mancunian. Basically, he set down the requirements, specifications, etc., and Mortimer did the "architectural design" of the Mancunian. I believe I have covered this in more detail in my Mancunian video. Thank you very much for watching!!
ruclips.net/video/Kr_unj9kUbU/видео.htmlsi=FAG_25SqQiFSNqBw&t=307 Oooh you can tell with the colours of the panelling and the seats that was a SYPTE but for sure.
Great to see you doing our buses from Yorkshire over there in the States like this
Hello! Oh yes, I have big interest in UK buses - such variety!! Thank you very much for watching!!
@@JeffreyOrnstein Thanks for making these videos. I do love a Leyland National.
We in South Yorkshire used to have a huge selection of buses from the 4 corporations (councils) of the area that mixed and then bought new fleet - like a huge fleet of Alisa Volvo with Van-hool bodies, Denis Dominators along with a load of Leyland Atlanteans as well.
W3e used to have the little Sedon's as well for the Inner Circle bus in Doncaster
Jeffery, you do need to do an extensive video on Northern Counties 👍
Hello! I will definitely look into it!! Thank you very much for watching!!
And you just know now you need to do a Dennis Dominator video! Lol
Oh yes, I guess I will have to now, LOL!!! Thank you very much for watching!!
Yet another very interesting and well presented video👍
Hello! I'm really glad you found the video interesting!! Thank you very much for watching!
The South Yorkshire versions were also used in Rotherham, not just Sheffield. They had Little Nipper branding. They were used on the Tennyson Road and Chaucer Road routes.
Allocation for the SYPTE Domino's was 41-43 Herries, 44-45 Greenland, 46-48 Rotherham and 49-54 Doncaster.
Hello! Thanks for the additional info on the SY versions!! Thank you very much for watching!!
@@JeffreyOrnstein Really enjoy your broadcasts. I especially like the details about the various chassis identities. Very useful! By the way, Seddon is pronounced with the accent on the "e", rather than the "o". I rode on these in Manchester when they first came out.
Seddon was a truck manufacturer in Britain, but they also produced several bus models from the early 1950s to about the 1970s. Baddley Brothers of Holmfirth had a few examples. They produced the Mark 7P. They used the Perkins P4 engine, and seated 28. They also produced a Mark 4 (32 seater) and a Mark 6 (35 seater), Mark 10 Pennine (seating up to 35 with a coach body, and Mark 11 Pennine, seating 31 in a light weight luxury coach body. They were manufactured in Oldham. They were very popular with small bus and coach operators.
@@grahamdavidcowley Thanks for the additional info and the pronunciation - will try to remember that next time, it's sometimes impossible to know this until someone tells me!
Built by Northern Counties
Yes, the were! (well, some of them were, LOL). Thank you very much for watching!!
Keep on keepin on...peace out.
Hello! Thank you, thank you, thank you! I appreciate it so very much! Thanks for your support and for watching again!!!!
Thank you Jeffrey!
Hello! You are very welcome - I'm really glad you liked the video! Thank you very much for watching!
Interesting stuff
Glad you found the video interesting!!! Thank you very much for watching!!
I have lived in Manchester all my life and I can say with all honesty I have never seen one of those in my 69 years!
Hello! Wow, that's interesting! Maybe they didn't run that often. Thank you very much for watching!!
I remember them at Queens Rd depot when I had a stint there on building maintenance. I've worked on the Seddon "bread vans" that preceded them when I was still a fitter at Frederick Rd, absolute nightmare to get the engine out
You didn't get out much?
You lucky man - imho they looked grotesque and perfectly reflected the observation “that if something looks right, it probably is right”, and the opposite 😉
Another great video Jeffrey,thank you 😊
Hello! I'm really happy you liked the video and thanks for the positive comment!! Thank you very much for watching!