OH! And I have a Captive Prince playlist on Spotify, if you're into that sort of thing: open.spotify.com/playlist/0z5HJUv3t8L8shBTLi61Kl?si=b-czD0j4RqG6AV77ZLHpkQ&
Very thoughtful and interesting essay on one of my favorite stories; I particularly enjoyed the "history of queer media and fandom" bit, as this video seems more geared towards people who have not read the books, though even then there were some insights and parallels illuminated here that I hadn't thought about before. I wanted to add a few additional layers of perspective, though, for anyone reading this, since to me they are important tools for understanding the story and its context: 1) Both the slavery in Akielos and the pet system in Vere seem directly inspired by different types of D/s dynamics in BDSM. I didn't pick up on this on my first reading, as I wasn't very familiar with BDSM concepts beyond consensual control in the bedroom, but looking back it is a glaring parallel: with the collars, and the decorative chains meant to show other doms how well-behaved your sub is; the way that Veretian sex workers are called "pets" and rewarded for good behavior; the way that both Damen and Erasmus speak of slavery in Akielos, that it is an exchange that binds both parties -- that the slave has their will and choices taken away, and in return the master treats them with care, satisfies their every need, gives them a life of luxury and leisure. The way that slaves are specifically trained for their role, and they receive a collar when they have completed their training. Subs playing with each other in public because their doms have decided they should. The sexual politics of this worldbuilding are essentially "what if the BDSM dynamics that are allowed to exist only in private and perhaps in very specific community spaces were in fact socially accepted and the basis of entire societies". (In fact, there is some evidence that the original beginnings of the story in its LJ form were essentially an excuse to write slave kink, although I haven't been able to 100% verify this.) Perhaps this explains some of the incongruity, the difficulty of balancing the escapist fantasy of slavery as kink versus the oppressive reality of slavery as dehumanizing imprisonment. And so, when Erasmus tells Damen he needs to belong to someone, I am not sure he is speaking as a slave in the real-life interpretation of the word; I think he is speaking as someone who is fundamentally a lifestyle sub, who likes and is used to having a master, to taking care and being taken care of. The psychology of that kind of submission as a coping mechanism vs. innate trait vs. trauma response vs. method of healing in contemporary life is of course a whole other topic, but within kink spaces it doesn't seem like this would be a very controversial stance. 2) The author is Australian and the world of Captive Prince is inspired by Ancient Greece and 13th century France. Australia has its own complex history with slavery (of convicts, Indigenous peoples, and Pacific Islanders, mostly) that I am not qualified to speak on, but I'm not really sure it's fair to say all media that depicts slavery of any kind is in conversation with the transatlantic chattel trade specificially. (19:58) Of course the cultural imperialism of America (and Hollywood specifically) makes it likely that the average global person with access to movies and TV will have at least a vague idea about the enslavement of African Americans in the U.S., but it's not really as hot of a topic outside the U.S. as it seems to be within it. (And, I'm assuming, in the other countries in the Americas that live with the legacy of that trade.) Furthermore, I'm not sure if referring to Damen as a "person of color" at 22:45-23:00 was just meant to describe how people unfamiliar with the books might perceive him when encountering visual depictions of his canonically brown skin, or if this essay also considers him to be a person of color, but I would argue that a) he is not, and also that b) whether he is or not is a framework that detracts from the complexity of the story. (Though of course not feelings of personal identification, which I support wholeheartedly.) Damen is, essentially, a Greek man. Within the American framework of race, Greek people are not contemporarily considered to be people of color; I am not sure if they ever were, but if yes, then I assume that as with Irish-Americans and Italian-Americans, the exclusion from "whiteness" had more to do with immigration policy, cultural (lack of) assimilation, and religious beliefs than with outward appearance. (To which point, Greece has always boasted a wide variety of skin tones, and if contemporary race conceptions pit European genes against non-primarily-European genes, then Greek people most definitely have European genes. Like, they are European - culturally, historically, contemporarily European.) I could believe that a darker-skinned Greek person traveling in the U.S. might experience racism meant for another ethnicity, but to my mind this lacks the persistent and ethnically targeted oppression that other people of color face, and furthermore, this story does not take place in America, nor is the author American, therefore American conceptions of race are kind of irrelevant. (Aside, of course, from the fact that the books are published in American markets and the majority of tiktok users are probably American, and also a good portion of the fanfic community that influenced Pacat was also, ostensibly, American.) The most you could argue for, in my opinion, is colorism, since Damen is canonically darker than Laurent (unclear by how much; the most useful quote seems to be "Against [Laurent's skin], his own skin, sun-darkened, seemed brown as a nut," which implies that both a tan and a visual contrast are contributing to this impression), but to be honest I can't remember a single instance in which the color of Damen's skin plays any part in the story, except insofar as it identifies him as Akielon. That's where the real vitriol comes in -- Akielon brutes, barbarians, war-hungry warriors, simpletons, etc.. You might think, then, that the skin tone which identifies him as Akielon must be directly related to the negative stereotypes about Akielons, but that doesn't seem to be the case: Akielons, canonically, come in many different colorings and skintones, including as pale and blonde as Laurent (Jokaste), seemingly regardless of class. It appears that Veretians, despite their own variety in coloring, don't tend to get quite as dark as Damen, so where another Akielon might be able to masquerade as Veretian if they adopted enough of the culture and mannerisms, Damen doesn't have the opportunity. However, the lighter-skinned Akielon would be subject to the same prejudice as Damen if they were found out, especially if they had done what Damen had done (aka killed the beloved crown prince of Vere). The story therefore grapples with xenophobia and culture wars, with ethnic tension and national prejudice -- but I'm not sure it grapples with race, in the same way that few of the wars that Europeans fought on their own soil had anything to do with race, but that didn't make them any less deadly, prejudiced, or devastating. (Now, interestingly, the story does seem to have a throughline of a different kind of ethnic conflict that seems to be a uniquely Australian phenomenon and is therefore invisible to western readers; apparently there is cultural tension between people of North European descent vs. people of Mediterranean descent, with the latter being on the receiving end of prejudice and even discrimination, which Pacat (of Italian descent) has stated was a subconscious but definitely present perspective in the way that Akielos and Vere are described within the prose. Again, not qualified to speak on it, but it's just interesting how different the lenses of different readers can be.) 3) Not specific to Captive Prince, but iirc the Hays code for movies and an equivalent thing in publishing meant that the industries self-censored re: any kind of controversial topics, including non-heterosexuality, which for a long time meant that the only way that queer stories could be told was if the characters died at the end or had some other tragic thing happen to convey that Actually Queerness Is Bad And Our Morals Are Good. This is of course a structural oppression problem and in no way excuses the chronic harm of such narratives, but I'm pretty sure I've read/heard accounts from contemporary readers of the time that they knew this was the case and didn't expect happy endings, but enjoyed the story anyway and either stopped reading towards the end or just disregarded the ending, the same way we in fandom might disregard the disappointing endings of our favorite shows and write our own fix-it fics. So in a way, the death penalty of queer characters was actually a gift, because it allowed for queer stories to be told at all. (Of course, at some point the censorship ended and the queer characters kept dying, which was much less great; but I also wonder how much the legacy of the inevitable queer death in the media these writers had grown up with influenced the stories they themselves were making.) Gosh, I'm not sure why I wrote that all out and even less sure if anybody is ever gonna read any of it. 😅
I am white, female, cis, and retired. I have never been interested in fanfic or romance or lgbtq fiction. I stumbled across Captive prince through art that popped up when I was looking for something entirely different. I read all the books straight through six times. Because parts of it resonated with me In various ways. I now read and write Captive prince fanfiction and have hardly looked at anything else since Covid started. Someone in a Captive prince discord discussion referred us to this video. It is wonderful. Powerful. You addressed people’s objections so well and I think you also expressed what makes it special so well. and you do it in an entertaining, well thought out, engaging way. Thank you for this.
this is phenomenal. i definitely had a moment where i was like “i need to reread this” because you explained the plot in such rich detail that i felt like i had blacked out reading the entire thing-which is hilarious because i’d sit this series in my top favorites. the conversations you had about choice, forgiveness, and disillusion as obvious takeaways highlighted nuance in specific scenes and arcs that i wasn’t able to capture in my first read, even my second. i really, REALLY appreciate that. this video essay clearly took a lot of time, effort, and thought and i feel lucky that something like this exists for a piece of media that i hold to close to my heart. i first picked up this series because i knew it was gay and i knew that the gay people fell in love at some point, which is basically the criteria for anything i choose to read these days (fellow lesbian here). i had no idea until i was firmly in it what i was going to walk away with, its still difficult for me to express all of the impacts it had, intentional or not. i say this because i’m so massively impressed by the organization of this entire video, starting with heartstopper and ending with the very real life crisis in the states-it all tied together so beautifully and your choice in topics to entertain was perfect (imo) and exciting. you have such a fantastic grasp on the story and your verbal explanations are beyond impressive to me. anyways, thank you so much for this! i’m off to share it with all my friends until they’re sick of me
it feels like there's something really significant about your point about having stuff to say that doesn't fit within the constraints of 3 minute tiktoks because you made me cry at 3 mins 30 secs
It took me a day to find the time, but I just finished and as a fan of both booktube and breadtube, there are countless creators whose ability to articulate the breadth of meaning and nuance in the stories I love and help me understand my own love for them. And gotta say you are slotting in easily among them, this video is just so well done, and looking forward to everything else you make!
@@leonardodavinci9138 channels just about books that I love the way they speak are: Adri from perpetualpages, they talk alot about queer YA that I don't always get around to, Willow from booksandbao, they are just a pleasure to listen to talk about books and stories. And FoldingIdeas is just one of my favorite channels in general, they way he's able to take apart a describe film/any topic I really admire and love listening to his analysis. hope you're having a good day
Wow this was so well put together and your points were excellent. Your video was recommended to me and I'm glad I've watched it. Your vocabulary is immaculate too. I think you nailed it when talking about the way that many criticisms against this series don't make sense. Your little interlude about Heartstopper is also so pertinent rn. Heartstopper has been (rightfully so) praised and I think it gave amazing representation to young queer people who are going through the difficult process of coming to terms with their sexualities. But at the same time Heartstopper has become a weapon its fans use against other media they deem "problematic". As you said, Heartstopper is good, but it's not the only possible one, it's not the only experience worth to tell. Heartstopper's author has also slammed queer stories written by Asian authors while praising her book for being "purer" and "not nasty like those bls". With the rising of Asian bls, the ones that have actually started the genre decades ago, there are many people in the West that use Heartstopper and other "non problematic" fiction to attack them, while also being racist. Nothing against Heartstopper, but I don't like the author, she thinks she is much better than the poc who have been writing these stories for ages in countries where is still dangerous to be queer. Imo in general it's silly to talk about "good representation" or "fetishization" and all those things. Queer stories are allowed to be messy. Queer characters are allowed to be evil. They are allowed to be problematic and complex. And everyone can write them, there is no reason to shame straight cis women who do that JUST because they are straight cis women. Otherwise you end up like with Heartstopper (again) where fans have harrassed that poor actor into coming out because they believed he was straight and wasn't worthy of playing a gay character. Saying only queer people are allowed to write queer stories would force people to come out and it's just wrong in general. Everyone can write everything, you don't need to experience something to be able to write about it. Obviously the reader can decide to read only works by queer authors and I have no problem with that if they don't harrass cishet authors in the process. There is room for everyone, especially now that more and more people are self-publishing. Not to mention how the argument about fetishization is often used against any content that depicts gay sex. There is this purity culture that is coming back with young progressive people who don't realize they are speaking like conservatives. They see any form of violence as fine, but draw the line at sex. It can be seen in the criticism against Captive Prince too. Damen is whipped to the point that he almost dies, but NO ONE talkes about that abuse when attacking the book. They only talk about the rape scene that, while still horrific, doesn't come close to literally being beaten almost to death. In general fetishization is hard to define as a concept and again it risks to limit the possibilities of queer stories to be told. They want to make them "healthier" and they often want to do it by removing the sex. It's a huge debate nowadays. When I went into Captive Prince I expected rape every 3 pages from what I had seen in the reviews, and the book was way more tame than I thought. Obviously it doesn't take away anything from people finding this content triggering, but I have read much darker stuff, so I had 0 problems with this series. As for slavery. I don't 100% agree, but I see where you are coming from. While obviously books don't exist in a vacuum, I think it's not fair to hold an Australian writer accountable because they write slavery in a fantasy world without considering that the topic of slavery today is related (rightfully so) to the trade of black people. The slavery in her world has nothing to do with race, as you also said, because in the ancient world there was not an idea of racism as we have it today. Damen is not a poc, Akielos takes inspiration from ancient Greece and Rome (Rome used tons of slaves of any race) so they are still white people, just really tan. A writer can only be responsible for the things they decide to write and Pacat depicted two people we now would call white and a type of slavery without racism. Yes Veretians have many prejudices against Akielons and they call them brutes and barbarians, but I don't think that's racism, considering it was (and still is) common for Northen Europe to discriminate against Southern Europe. Pacat chose to depict a simpler form of slavery and lighter form of prejudice and she clearly didn't want to talk about racism because racism is not easy to talk about or overcome at the end of the story. Maybe she doesn't think she can do the topic justice and I applaude her for this. If a writer doesn't feel comfortable with writing a topic, it's better they let it go. She didn't try to depict a slave system powered by racism (which would be much harder to represent and to dismantle at the end of the books) and she opted for something easier to deal with. We can't now take her work and compare it to a form of slavery that is very different and much more complex (and horrifying) when she didn't try to depict that. Yes her books don't exist in a vacuum, but racism is not a theme in the story. And the same goes for Erasmus imo. Obviously I would have preferred for him to be free, but a book doesn't need to have a happy ending for everyone. Erasmus ending up with a kind master and being happy doesn't mean that it's right. It's still wrong, but it doesn't need to be a happy ending. Nicaise too deserved a happy ending, but his death doesn't mean the Regent was right in killing him. It's the same for Erasmus: it doesn't mean the book or the author is saying "Erasmus deserves to be enslaved because slaves are happy". It's totally different from Rowling who wrote and entire essays defending the fact that in Harry Potter elves were happy to be slaves: in that case the author herself said that the elves being slaves was the right thing for them. Pacat didn't do such thing. But yes, Erasmus ending is super sad, but realistic. Just like it's realistic to think the kingdoms will have problems becoming one and abolishing slavery, it's just reality. Overall, AMAZING review. Your points were really really good and you explained yourself beautifully. I love this series so much, it means a lot to me, and seeing you defending it brings me joy. I'm also happy that you managed to escape your abusive relationship and were able to recover. I'm sure you are really strong.
I've been a huge fan of Captive Prince since 2016 and your video was such a good analysis! Laurent especially is a character i relate SO MUCH to because I just see so much of myself in him, and reading this book really made me finally feel like i was worthy of love after all. Captive Prince is such a special book to me and it touched me so deeply I desperately wish people would give it a chance instead of dismissing it before even reading it because of ~the discourse~
I would happily listen to you talk about these books for at LEAST three hours. Your plot summary and summation of the themes of these books was so concise and succinct I am in awe.
I just finished the books and ughhh i'm sobbing, i can't believe how much i got attached to the characters, they are both so pure in their own unique way. I haven't felt for a character like this in years and i know that this usually comes only every once in a while. I feel empty now.
Hi. I just wanted to pop by and say thank you for such a beautiful and well thought through analysis of Captive prince. I've quietly loved this series for years but felt kinda shameful about it beacuse of the dark themes. I've grown to understand that reading about those kinds of themes and enjoying books depicting them arent inherently bad but you put it into words so beautifully. So thank you.
beautiful and nuanced analysis, thank you so much for this video! one thing i want to add about early queer representation: from early to mid 1900s, the "hays code" in the film industry essentially only allowed queer people to be depicted if the narrative condemned their actions. this usually resulted in queer character dying, since otherwise the movie would be censored.
Not that this justifies his in-text treatment, but Pacat HAS acknowledged the Erasmus Problem (in a livestream that’s on her RUclips channel). Albeit not the “I’m the type of person who was made to submit” part. But the problem that results from his continuing enslavement in Patras at the end of the series. In this q&a she acknowledged that it is a problem, and hesitated to even discuss it on a livestream (even describing the problem as a “plot hole”). She basically explained that there was a mechanical reason for the lack of resolution to Erasmus’ story: she just couldn’t find a way to include his liberation in the conclusion that made sense. She also sort of speculated that maybe the combined diplomatic efforts of Vere and Akielos might cause a shift in Patran attitudes toward slavery. Basically, gave permission for fanon or fanfic that might explore this. As you said many times in your excellent video: this is not a justification, but maybe an explanation.
Just binge-read the books so I could watch this and damn I have no regrets. The Captive Prince Trilogy is an amazing read. I love the characters and the ending just felt perfect.
I cannot explain it but I love political dramas and the exploration of dark themes in books. Court schemes, the idea of never knowing if you are being played, I love it. I understand that it is not for everyone but I just loved captive prince, I even loved Laurent in book one because he despite being an awful person during the first book he does not commit the single greatest crime in fiction... he is not boring, at all! There is always something happening behind the scenes with him, he keeps you on your toes. I as most people also love fluff and lovey dovey stuff but recently I have come across the flattest most boring characters ever. It seems that people are so focused on making stuff acceptable that they forget to give it a soul. I much more prefer to see people redeem themselves, change and grow than being handed a already perfect character.
I recently read A Strange And Stubborn Endurance by Foz Meadows and this video and specifically your point about hopepunk is really making me appreciate it. Meeting the darkness of the world with screaming, defiant hope and joy will always be worth it's even when it's hard.
I can't articulate properly right now but I'm SO grateful for a long video that puts Capri in context of the time it's from. I've seen some very...unforgiving takes on TikTok that just make me so fearful to share my OTP of OTPs with people lmao. I'm so so grateful for this. Also so glad other queer millennials reacted to heartstopper the way I did--I didn't consider it grief but that interpretation is so fitting. Trying to get back into reading and gonna be following you on TikTok to try and feed that.
This video has been so interesting to watch, mainly because I am a Black woman who has always been entirely uninterested in the Captive Prince, mainly because of the themes of slavery and the media/art I saw by fans of the series. I learned a lot from this and it was interesting to think through and I did watch it all! It also inspired some comments for me that may be of interest to someone (or maybe not lol) so I'll share them. As a descendant of enslaved people in the United States who still carries the stigma of slavery in my life, I find that the stories that white authors are interested in telling about slavery always fall flat for me, because they find some intellectual difference in owning slaves but knowing it is bad or finding it to be the backwards custom someone else is forcing them into and the true, what I believe to be senseless and unjustifiable, apathy for human life in 'real slavery.' I do not find a difference intellectually or in practice. Related to this is the common trope of reinvented slavery worlds to include characters of color as slave owners when white characters are not. The insistence upon the true barbarity of slavery being only capable by characters of color or countries of color is reflected in narratives about the transatlantic slavery to this day. It is a consistent perpetuations of narratives of violence being something white people can intellectually be higher than and characters of color, especially Black people, are prone to. I think that background in this book still makes it too tied into perpetuations of anti-Black slavery rhetoric for me. But I did enjoy the video and always enjoy pagemelt content.
Akielos was inspired in Ancient Greece, Vere was inspired in Medieval France. Greek people are indeed a bit tanner than French people (and that is what Pacat means when she says that Damen's skin is darker than Laurent's), but they're still very much white. The difference is that French people are extremely white, while Greeks tend to have Mediterranean olive skin tones (which is mostly just another word for ''tan'). This video essay was very good, but if there is something that I cannot agree with are the parallels that a lot of American readers make to their own history when it comes to slavery. I cannot speak for Pacat (an Australian author who, as far as I know, has never lived in the USA) but, as an European, I never once thought that she was trying to mirror Akielos to the USA during those times or that she was trying to make a point about how that might've been different depending on who was at the top. It just made sense, because I grew up knowing that both Ancient Greece and the Roman Empire practiced slavery. I would never want to invalidate or brush away your ancestors' suffering, so please don't take this the wrong way, but take into account that, as disgusting and inhumane as it is, slavery has existed since forever, and not all stories about slavery are meant to point at that one particular time in history when it also happened in America. Reading Captive Prince or not is entirely your decision, and I understand why you might not want to, but if you ever do decide to give it a chance, know that it's more similar to the slavery that you would see in a movie about the Roman Empire than the one you naturally associate it with.
@@blueturnips1912 obvi i watched this five months ago and i'm not going to watch it again to respond to this comment so if i misremember something forgive me. i am well aware that pacat is not picturing what we think of as people of color today. in the same time period you are explaining to me, whiteness did not exist. i am also aware that you cannot just coincidentally create your darker skinned society as having a more barbaric relationship to slavery than your lighter skinned society and have that not echo anti-Black narratives. with all the details present in this story I don't think we can just say that part wasn't intentional like everything else. I also beg Europeans to stop washing their hands of chattel slavery. If you think a society based off of a European one thus means there are no similarities to the transatlantic slave trade, you misunderstand the role of europe in the creation of the transatlantic slave trade. just because europeans are taught this as an American phenomena doesn't mean that Americans are the ones projecting it. I also grew up aware of ancient forms of slavery. I also grew up with a much more deep understanding of how horrific slavery is than most people. And I'm not intending to critique you, but I'm asking you to think critically about how your insistence that chattel slavery cannot influence an adult educated white person in the modern world's writing about slavery, no matter where they are born.
followed you over here form tiktok. this video could be two more hours and i would watch it while being riveted the entire time. I didn’t even know that captive prince was polarizing until after I read them - maybe because I came to the series years later, but I completely missed it.
I don’t think I’ll ever be able to stomach the dark romance aspects of this series, and I still have a lot of Opinions about certain aspects of it, so for that reason I’ll never read it. But this video made such a compelling case for the existence of this book and how aspects of it are profoundly helpful and important. Thank you for making this - your content on booktok is so thoughtful and I’m really glad to see the same is true for your RUclips channel
OMG this video is all I needed today, thank u! I think one of the issues with this book (not the book really, but people that reccomend it) is that people start reading it expecting romace, so when they finish the 1st book they can`t bealieve others see that "problematic piece of garbage" as romance. I`ve seen so many people reccomending this book on booktok describing it only as a romance and not talking about the tw`s, it`s quite frustrating.
I want to thank you for this video. I've just ended my third re-read of this book. And what I kept thinking is that it saddens me how misunderstood this book is. As you said I think this should be a single long book because the first book, just by itself results deeply disturbing and difficult to read. But if you keep going you will be met with a beautiful story that still brings deep reflection without utilizing a deep narration. While other characters are quite... Segregated to their roles, not so deeply scrutinized, Damen and Laurent are impeccably built, with such deepness that made them so real to me. Also I can not stop saying how this is the best slow burn I've ever seen. I find more disturbing those "enemies to lovers" where characters despise eachother and then when they find themselves a palm apart they kiss and are suddenly in love. Like wtf? I feel like people stopped at the first book also because they thought THIS is what was going to happen. But no. We don't realize it like neither does Damen. How they start to tolerate eachothers, then it's a pact and then a friendship of sort. Is gradual, natural and with all of the doubt and internal turmoil you talked about. I just love these books and these two so much (also, I've just re read the summer palace and cried the whole time because I'm just so happy for them)
I think RUclips is an excellent platform for you and the level of care, though, and nuance you bring to all your topics is wonderful to see. In general on the internet I’ve noticed a disturbing trend of veering away from nuance and towards stark binaries of “problematic” and “unproblematic.” Your content is a lovely reassurance that nuance is alive and well 👑
I never have and probably never will read Captive Prince but man, I love listening to you talk about art, Mel! Love thinking about how art, like us, can be messy and weird and ugly, and still, beautiful and warm and worth fighting for. And that's what healing from our trauma is like too, and any art that helps us do that, any art that allows us to remember that change and growth and healing is possible and deserved no matter how cruel or harsh that trauma has made us, is art worth existing-- and that's way more important to me than it's palatability. ANYWAYS just regurgitating what you said at the end but just wanted to say it really resonated with me and ur awesome xo-- MG
Very very detailed and comprehensive analysis. Really really changed my perspective. I have read them all many times and finally i feel like the discourse is getting better
I remember really liking the first book but stopping in the middle of the second. I keep regretting that and thinking I'll go back and reread and really finish the series this time.. This may be just the motivation i need! Side note, as a Berserk fan, I remember IMMEDIATELY clocking the guts/griffith influence in the two main characters lol.
3 minutes in, and holy shit, I think this is why I avoid most shows/anime set in high school, "coming of age" movies, etc. Just make me too sad for the school experience I didn't have as someone who was rather isolated. Thanks, my therapist will hear of you by name next week lol. I'm gonna pause this, go read the book, and come back.
I was a big fan of the series but as a cis/het male who’s never really fully plunged into the world of fan fiction I could tell somethings definitely went over my head. I really loved this video and the topics and story points it hit on. Really looking forward to future content from you!
Im really glad to hear you gave it a chance. Ive been trying to convince some of my friends to read it, because its just genuinely an amazing piece of fiction but it feels like they just see it as a “gay book” and write it off as something theyre not interested in
ok but damen being most like sara crewe is absolutely amazing and so accurate. i never would have made that connection. this was a wonderful analysis, i hope you post some more on here!
This encapsulates everything. I feel like you found the words for how I myself found a lot of comfort in Captive Prince after I left a very prominent toxic/abusive relationship ❤
Theres a point about how the media critique landscape has a polarizing effect. But I also want to add that it also has a magnifying effect. There are rational and mindful ppl on the internet. Which is why they make long vid essays instead of leaving feral comments. My point: Speak your truth. It'll find the right ears. The algorithm will make certain of that.
This is so amazing. I have seen some very half-baked takes on this book but this very strongly reflects my own feelings about captive prince. this is amazingly concise and touches on some things I hadn't even properly realised/understood before
this is such a great analysis of the trilogy! I obsessively read capri in 2017 when i was about 15 and as a kid who had JUST come out of a grooming situation it really spoke to me on processing abuse and trauma, but over the years I've dropped the trilogy as I felt that the slavery sections in the first book were Tough and I feared I was missing a huge amount of racism as a white person. Its great to see a really meaningful analysis of the series!
watched this after my captive prince reread 4 years after reading it the first time and realising this book is even better than i first thought back then, THANK YOU for speaking my mind about this series and addressing some of the common criticism it gets - some of them perfectly valid, some simply an absolute misinterpretation. i reread capri after reading dark rise and dark heir because these books reminded me that pacat is a so much better writer than people think and i wish her books would be talked about more. thank you for the video!!!!
I am 3 minutes into this video and already almost crying, like. WOOF. You really put that statement about grief into perspective for me, too. I tend to avoid a lot of mainstream gay media that I know I'd enjoy and that would be meaningful to me because, like, it wasn't for me. It didn't get to be for me when I needed it, and while I'm overjoyed it exists, I can't watch it anymore. It hurts too much.
dont have the brains for a long comment but this was a very good video, its going on my "best video essays" playlist , i will be showing this to my girlfriend when we have the time (i keep randomly ranting to her about these books i feel bad for her lmao). i hope u keep making videos like this!!
Fantastic video! You articulated so well the nuance that is often overlooked in this series , and why it resonates so well as a piece of queer literature. Looking forward to other videos that you decide to create!
As someone who has been in Dramione and Spuffy internet spaces since I was probably too young to be there, I cannot believe I've never heard the phrase 'Draco in Leather Pants'. That one is going to send me down both an introspective and an internet rabbit hole.
This is the best video essay on captive prince that I've seen. Thank you so much for your insightful and knowledgeable analysis. I've added this to my captive prince video library and I'll re-watch it when I reread the books next.
As a fan of your tik tok and of Captive Prince I couldn’t wait for this video! It definitely delivered, I love your analysis so much and look forward to everything you put on this channel!
Oh my, I've just finished the triology and desperately needed your video, I can't believe you've basically just uploaded it! It's so informative and both the context and the textual analysis are provided, I'm so impressed! How do I get as knowledgable as you? 😅 Can't wait for more of your videos down the road!
I've been wanting to watch this since I found you on tiktok a while ago, but I wanted to reread the series before I did. Well, I finally spent all day yesterday blazing through all three of them (because I agree that they should just be one big honkin' book), so today I finally got to watch. I really love the way you approach media and media criticism; you have such a generous approach that meets a work on its own ground, while also being incredibly thoughtful about the ways it interacts with its broader context. I've read a number of things recently that I've wished I could pick your brain about, so I'm very grateful that I got to go with you on a deep dive into a series that, for all its faults, is near and dear to my heart. Thanks!
Amazing video! I think this is the best thing about Captive Prince I've seen on RUclips and I'm so glad for the work you've made. I loved the way you explained everything and how you organized the info. This is something the fandom needed. For me it is kind of hard to explain the beauty and darkness of Captive Prince and watching this video was for me a way to let all my feelings go and even to appreciate the trilogy more. I'll be looking forward to othe videos you make! 💖
i have watched this an embarrassing amount of times so i feel i have to now let you know. this has been such an interesting and relaxing watch, your voice and cadence is very soothing and this is a book series i had never heard of that has now rocketed up my TBR list! looking forward to any future videos you bring out ❤️
I’m a queer cis girl, and my own experience in understanding myself and my identity was so incredibly difficult that I honestly felt that I was too weird or simply not normal. I remember when everyone around me started growing and understanding themselves. It seemed like everyone else was so capable and confident in understanding these parts of their identity. Even the media that was sort of targeted at my demographic seemed to portray people like that. It took me forever to understand enough about myself to realize I was queer. Even after I found labels I was comfortable using, I still felt so so doubtful about my own identity. I definitely felt a type of imposter syndrome, and literally any push back toward myself or the things that I related to made me rethink everything. I remember feeling so different until I discovered fanfictions and lgbt related books. Almost all of it was mlm at first, but I typically didn’t have a problem relating to the characters and stories. I guess the best way I can explain it is that everyone’s sexuality and gender identity are two extremely complex and personal traits. It’s going to be different for everyone, and sometimes it takes distorting or changing one of those traits to make someone feel comfortable enough to handle such big topics. I’ve never had a problem being perceived as/ having feminine traits, but I think one of the things that I struggled with was understanding the masculine side of myself. The mlm media that I had access to typically did a good job of creating complex characters who had a mix of feminine and masculine traits. I could relate to more than one person, and really start understanding the type of relationship I wanted and admired. When I did find wlw content, it seemed slightly harder to find that mix of traits, especially with the main couples. Honestly a lot of the earlier wlw content seemed way to close to typical straight relationships that I just couldn’t relate to. I think that in a similar way to people resonating and fully understanding shows with impossible plots from the perspective of the opposite sex, it’s normal and ok for someone to find that relatability in darker content. I think it’s just all about how individuals are able to interpret the content . I couldn’t ever really explain this until recently, but listening to your own perspective helped
I actually loved the captive prince (spoilers ahead you've been warned) Laurent is my favourite character whilst Damen was physically THE captive prince, Laurent was just as trapped emotionally (kinda physically too) Laurent was deeply misunderstood. I LOVED THE TITLE. THEY BOTH WERE THE CAPTIVE PRINCE. THAT'S SO TRUE. I felt soo emotional while reading Capri it makes you connect with the character; you understand them. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR MAKING THIS VIDEO 😭😭
this was a great essay. I know it's been 2 years and you have only made one (also fantastic) essay since but i really hope to see more from you. really great job.
thank you very much for this essay video! i've read this trilogy many many years ago when i was an ignorant teenager (whiiiiich might not have been the best idea considering the themes contained within the books). i really loved it and i cannot say how many time i've reread it since. to be perfectly honest, i had not considered or even noticed the issues that this series contained, until i looked up "captive prince" on youtube and noticed that most of the video reviews on this book series seemed to be negative. your video made me understand the crux of the issues that people have with the book. i haven't really thought too much on the theme of slavery and its progression in this book. it makes me want to reread the books. thank you and i hope you'll have a great week!🤍
"...and if you're gonna have joy at all - and you can and you should - then you've got to learn how to find it in the dark." Well damn. Thank you so much for this video. I love every time your videos pop up on my TikTok FYP and knowing that you're now on RUclips is so exciting. My sister threw Captive Prince at me a few years ago and begged me to read it. Book one was definitely hard to stomach and I kept giving her weird looks, but I'm glad I kept reading. I reread the trilogy last year and this video beautiful encapsulates the story. I'm super excited for whatever comes next on this channel!
What a fantastic video!! I’m so sad I didn’t find this earlier. I read captive prince when I was 13 years old, I’ve met Pacat in Melbourne and she was not thrilled about that haha but it has been my favourite book ever since. Now I’m 21 and I’ve reread it and find new aspects to adore and analyse every time. Thank you for your nuisanced thoughts, especially loved the part on gender. Just 👏👏👏
Thank you for this great analysis Mel! You're always able to explain a concept in a way I can understand it it more in depth. I can't wait to see your future booktube/breadtube videos take off😆
I finished this trilogy yesterday, after reading it as if my life depended on it during the past week, for a reason I wasn't so sure of myself because... Well, I started this book with the wrong view. So when I got to the end, I couldn't decide: Did I thought this story was a masterpiece of media, or just the arrogance of an editor who wished for clouts? I want to mention that I read a translation of the story, as english isn't my native tongue, and have ultimately also been influenced by the clear view of the translator who clearly only saw this story as a way to put food on the plate, and only realized its worth half-way through the first book. Thanks to your wonderful video, and after thinking thoroughly about it, I made my choice about what this story was to me: I don't think I'll ever see it as one of the greatest books of all times, but I'll definitely remember it as one of the best story I have read. It's hard for me to formulate a perfect reasoning without seeming too bold here as to why your video resonated with me so much, but one of the main things I can formulate clearly is that you helped me open my eyes as to how easily influenced by other's perception I was when reading Captive Prince. Not just by the friends surrounding me as I was summarizing the books to them, but also the translator who couldn't find enjoyment in this work and influenced the writing in my native tongue, or even the perception of what others would think if they knew what I was reading. Somehow, I think I read this story as if it was shameful. But you helped me clear the fog of the doubt that was confusing me all this time after I finished King's Rising: there's nothing shameful in this story, because in the end, there's nothing we can't tell in a story. I'll keep a fond memory of the Captive Prince no matter what, both because of its context and its content. I'm thanking you for allowing me that.
You do a really good job of clearly articulating your thoughts. I’ve been waiting for this video ever since you talked about it on tiktok and it was well worth the wait! I can’t wait for more videos.
This was fascinating and wonderful! I have not read these books and don't plan to (I'm also 32 and I just feel like the window has passed for me... maybe if I'd gotten to them in my early 20s), but I was hooked from the very beginning. I love listening to your analysis of media, it's always thoughtful, incredibly well said, compassionate, and nuanced. I can't wait for more videos on this channel! Will watch them all, even if I'm not familiar with the source work.
That was such a great deconstruction of the captive prince trilogy I was never able to put words on the feelings I had with this book, probably becaus of my age and my lack of vocabulary, but you did it for me and I really appreciate you for that. TY
rewatching this for the 3rd time as I complete my first re-read of this series. I owned Captive Prince for 2 years before I got the courage to read it after finding your content. You so eloquently put into words the exact ways I felt while reading the series for the first time, and changed the way I interact with and interpret everything I have read/consumed since. Impatiently waiting for your next video on this channel!!!
Okay but how dare your Captive Prince fanmix be such complete and absolute fire?! Honestly. HONESTLY. I'm really picky about music (not that my taste is amazing or anything; my brain's just really particular about what it vibes with and what it doesn't), so when I listen to fanmixes, the best case scenario is that I click around a few times, find a couple of tracks I vibe with, and then bounce. Never ONCE in [counts painfully] more than two decades, have I clicked onto a fanmix, listened to the entire thing from beginning to end, become obsessed with it, and ended up listening to the whole thing at least once a week for several months. UNTIL NOW. Why is it so good?! HOW is it so good?!! The vibes in particular are just so immaculate? I mean it _feels_ like Captive Prince. It emotionally and psychologically _embodies_ Captive Prince. Every track is just so legit. The way it all feels cynical and wounded and ugly, but also complex and genuine and beautiful at the same time? Sublime. The way the whole mix has a sense of dynamic grandeur, while also giving flattened-affect trauma vibes? Magnificent. The way most of the tracks feel strangely timeless? Perfection. Truly, I'm obsessed. (Your video is also very good, and I remember thinking that you made several great points I hadn't even considered before, but uh, I forgot to comment at the time and now it's been months and I don't remember the specifics.😅 Sorry. I'm mostly just here to say, thank you for the insane fanmix; it broke me and I can't stop listening to it.)
love your tiktok and I'm soooo happy to see you doing longform content! the nuance you always bring was made for videos over an hour long. I've also loved captive prince for a number of years so it was truly gratifying to see someone discuss it with such precision. I will absolutely be looking out for your next video!
What an amazing video!! I read the trilogy a while ago and since then I haven't been able to get it out of my head for a few months, so many points and so many parallels! When I saw a video about 1 hour long I couldn't believe it, I thought I wouldn't be able to watch it because I don't even know how to speak English well, but I watched the whole thing and didn't even notice the time passing. Great video! The editing is fun (the church music with the topic name written on it gave me jump scares several times LOL) and you speak very well, great diction and the topics are well organized. I really loved it, a work of art! I started to love the trilogy even more, I saw many topics that I hadn't even stopped to think about. I also have my own criticisms about it, but they end up being minuscule compared to how much this books have to serve us. Thank you for the incredible video, in addition to the quality content, it served for me as a listening lesson 💖💖💖
Thank you so much for a mentally, emotionally and intellectually mature conversation about this book series and the serious issues that are explored in the story. I was debating between reading this series and another danmei series. I will be reading Captive Prince, first at least.
Mel, wow. I read the series just to be able to watch your video analysis. Both blew me away. Thank you for your thoughtful content. I learn so much. Please give us some captive prince fan fic recs. I know you have them xo
I never interact in other spaces so I just wanted to take a moment to thank you for helping me think and consider and evaluate the media and art I consume and enjoy!
Thank you so much for such a nuanced and complete analysis, I enjoyed it thoroughly and I can't wait to rewatch it again later. I'm one of those pesky gay cis men above 30 for whom this series means the world, something of a rarity in this specific fandom, so your opening salvo really resonated with me. I first came across Captive Prince around 2013, and we have been going steady ever since. What can I say? Sometimes us big boys need to escape to Verakielos, too. I've also found a lot of solace and joy with the new wave of content creators and fans who are engaging with the series in new and meaningful ways, so thank you for that too. P.S. On a side note, the production of your video is top notch, kudos.
I just wanted to take a moment to thank you for creating this amazing video essay on Captive Prince. I've watched it 7 times so far and it never gets old! I also appreciate how you were able to explain the themes and concepts to my friends who couldn't get through the first book because of the triggering content. This video essay has been a great way for them to understand why I love the series and I'm so grateful for your hard work. Thank you again!
I’ve been waiting for this video!! Thank you so much!! I’m not articulate enough to say good words lol but I loved and appreciated this videooo and all your thoughts
This was excellent! While CaPri wasn't one I enjoyed during the moment, it's been really interesting listening to your review and getting a better grasp of some of the themes Pacat wrote throughout the series. I also really emphasized with your final thoughts on L's trauma and finally having something click that he can forgive himself. Really great video! Hope you have some other books that bring out this kind of in-depth analysis!
Really enjoyed this, your content is always so well thought out and articulated. I've been looking forward to this video for a while and would love to see more like it!
I read this series in one weekend about 6 years ago, I loved it, but my memory of it has become foggy, and since then I’ve seen so much criticism that it made me question if I should have liked it, and almost feel ashamed that I did. I really appreciate your perspective on it and your thoughtful responses to the criticisms. I think I’m going to re-read the series with these arguments in mind. Also, I don’t know if you’ve since read the Heartstopper books, but I would argue that in books 3 and 4 they do touch on deeper topics, and acknowledge some of the ways that queer youth are impacted by the world we live in.
This is personal, but when I first found these books, I was just getting free of an abusive relationship with someone I had thought of as an older, mentor figure. I didn't have the terminology to realize I was being groomed, but I was the same age as Laurent when it started, and I felt incredibly bitter for reasons I couldn't articulate. Reading about someone overcoming that---someone who felt the same shame and fear as me---was incredibly vindicating. I have a lot of the same criticisms as you, but I'm also innately grateful that these books exist because they gave me a framework to heal. If you haven't already, I highly recommend reading "The Persian Boy" and the rest of the Alexander Trilogy, written by Mary Renault. I always think of Captive Prince as in dialogue with "The Persian Boy," though I don't know if Pacat ever read it.
Thank you so much for such a wonderful analysis of Captive Prince. This series is very near and dear to me. It was a joy to listen to you bring up both praise and criticism in a very positive way that also sheds light on how queer media and dark themes are viewed by society in both the past and present day. Bravo! ❤
I loved this, a nuanced view with a hopeful ending, and you changed my mind about a few things with this series. As a fic writer from the early 00s, I'd love to see more history about this period, the parts you did share brought back some memories haha. I think it's a topic that not enough has been said about, especially considering how much it's affected our culture and still does, Captive Prince is a great example of that.
I love this video and am so happy to see this series praised and criticized in the way that you have. It’s such an important series to me, I’m so glad to see others feel the same way
I just found you on tiktok and when I saw that you will also do video essays over here I was ecstatic! I love your content over there, but I wasn't expecting you to talk about and be a fan of this trilogy, wow! As someone who also grew up in the 90s as an LGBTQ+ kid, it feels like you're just putting all my thoughts into words. It was a wild ride to live through those days and see the enormous difference in queer media rep we have now, like day and night, and I feel (and thank you!) that you explained it so well. I wish we had had something wholesome and sweet like Heartstopper back then too, but instead we got Queer As Folk, lol, and that inevitably shaped our way of telling and consuming stories, especially romantic ones. I completely understand why Captive Prince is a huge no for many people, especially younger audiences, and why it's so polarizing, but when you grow up reading and watching extremely dark LGBTQ stories, you understand why it exists and why a lot of us read it. And maybe you don't enjoy all of it (the whole thing with The Regent will always make my skin crawl), but still you become a fan because it's really good, complex and nuanced storytelling and characters. The entire video was such a delight and it made me want to reread the books to see some very intereresting details you pointed out that I han't seen before. So yeah, basically I'm a fan of the books and now I'm a big fan of your content too. I'll be looking forward for more of it.
I appreciate you talking about this amazing, beautiful series with such a critical and analytical lens. It’s one of my favourite series of all time and I’ve seen it dragged through the mud for years. I appreciate that you were able to articulate why these often criticised aspects of the story work while also pointing out the flaws because so many people conflate it’s content with the author/reader’s moral sensibilities. I could talk about this series for hours so I enjoyed your entire video greatly!! I love captive prince and I wish more people would give it a chance, and I think your video could help with that!! I’d love to hear your takes on other content too!!
You added a new perspectives for me on this book that I love, gotta read it again now with all of this in mind (and in my lenguage for full understanding this time 😅) thank you for making it more special ❤️
i just love ur critical analyses of work, you can tell youve read a lot and you have so much theory beneath your speaking to each point. i love your vids!!!!!!!! i think it would be awesome if you had specific references to theory you mention within the videos!!!!! anyway thanks for making this, its so good, and i'm so excited to watch more of your videos!!!
As soon as I finish this trilogy, I'll be coming back to finish this video. I follow your content in TikTok and appreciate your thoughtful approach to books/storytelling and the community surrounding it. I'm looking forward to your long-form content as well. Thank you for your work!
i bought captive prince and princes gambit at a convention when i was 15 on a whim because the author said she was signing them - i proceeded to read it for the next ten years. ill always be mad i lost my copy of the first book
This was INCREDIBLE thank you! I love this series and while it’s not perfect, I think that it is amazing and I’m glad to see it get some love. I’m so happy you talked about fanfiction. I grew up reading it and I think that’s why I was am so drawn to this style.
Wow I love this video, will definitely be coming back to this again and very excited for more videos like this. I have not read the books (or seen any discourse really) but I love the way you so thoughtfully and generously engage with media and the reactions to it and I am really glad you have moved into a longer format. I adore your final point on queer liberation not involving sanitation or appeal to the oppressor, including in art. Thank you for this video. (My only criticism/request is format based. I was wondering if it would be possible for future video to have a voice over of the chapter titles. For me this is helpful because I listen to video essays while doing housework, but it's also/more importantly a good accessibility measure for blind/low vision people. Thanks for considering!)
![Twenty One Pilots - “The Line” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/E2Rj2gQAyPA/mqdefault.jpg)
OH! And I have a Captive Prince playlist on Spotify, if you're into that sort of thing: open.spotify.com/playlist/0z5HJUv3t8L8shBTLi61Kl?si=b-czD0j4RqG6AV77ZLHpkQ&
Very thoughtful and interesting essay on one of my favorite stories; I particularly enjoyed the "history of queer media and fandom" bit, as this video seems more geared towards people who have not read the books, though even then there were some insights and parallels illuminated here that I hadn't thought about before. I wanted to add a few additional layers of perspective, though, for anyone reading this, since to me they are important tools for understanding the story and its context:
1) Both the slavery in Akielos and the pet system in Vere seem directly inspired by different types of D/s dynamics in BDSM. I didn't pick up on this on my first reading, as I wasn't very familiar with BDSM concepts beyond consensual control in the bedroom, but looking back it is a glaring parallel: with the collars, and the decorative chains meant to show other doms how well-behaved your sub is; the way that Veretian sex workers are called "pets" and rewarded for good behavior; the way that both Damen and Erasmus speak of slavery in Akielos, that it is an exchange that binds both parties -- that the slave has their will and choices taken away, and in return the master treats them with care, satisfies their every need, gives them a life of luxury and leisure. The way that slaves are specifically trained for their role, and they receive a collar when they have completed their training. Subs playing with each other in public because their doms have decided they should.
The sexual politics of this worldbuilding are essentially "what if the BDSM dynamics that are allowed to exist only in private and perhaps in very specific community spaces were in fact socially accepted and the basis of entire societies". (In fact, there is some evidence that the original beginnings of the story in its LJ form were essentially an excuse to write slave kink, although I haven't been able to 100% verify this.) Perhaps this explains some of the incongruity, the difficulty of balancing the escapist fantasy of slavery as kink versus the oppressive reality of slavery as dehumanizing imprisonment. And so, when Erasmus tells Damen he needs to belong to someone, I am not sure he is speaking as a slave in the real-life interpretation of the word; I think he is speaking as someone who is fundamentally a lifestyle sub, who likes and is used to having a master, to taking care and being taken care of. The psychology of that kind of submission as a coping mechanism vs. innate trait vs. trauma response vs. method of healing in contemporary life is of course a whole other topic, but within kink spaces it doesn't seem like this would be a very controversial stance.
2) The author is Australian and the world of Captive Prince is inspired by Ancient Greece and 13th century France. Australia has its own complex history with slavery (of convicts, Indigenous peoples, and Pacific Islanders, mostly) that I am not qualified to speak on, but I'm not really sure it's fair to say all media that depicts slavery of any kind is in conversation with the transatlantic chattel trade specificially. (19:58) Of course the cultural imperialism of America (and Hollywood specifically) makes it likely that the average global person with access to movies and TV will have at least a vague idea about the enslavement of African Americans in the U.S., but it's not really as hot of a topic outside the U.S. as it seems to be within it. (And, I'm assuming, in the other countries in the Americas that live with the legacy of that trade.) Furthermore, I'm not sure if referring to Damen as a "person of color" at 22:45-23:00 was just meant to describe how people unfamiliar with the books might perceive him when encountering visual depictions of his canonically brown skin, or if this essay also considers him to be a person of color, but I would argue that a) he is not, and also that b) whether he is or not is a framework that detracts from the complexity of the story. (Though of course not feelings of personal identification, which I support wholeheartedly.)
Damen is, essentially, a Greek man. Within the American framework of race, Greek people are not contemporarily considered to be people of color; I am not sure if they ever were, but if yes, then I assume that as with Irish-Americans and Italian-Americans, the exclusion from "whiteness" had more to do with immigration policy, cultural (lack of) assimilation, and religious beliefs than with outward appearance. (To which point, Greece has always boasted a wide variety of skin tones, and if contemporary race conceptions pit European genes against non-primarily-European genes, then Greek people most definitely have European genes. Like, they are European - culturally, historically, contemporarily European.)
I could believe that a darker-skinned Greek person traveling in the U.S. might experience racism meant for another ethnicity, but to my mind this lacks the persistent and ethnically targeted oppression that other people of color face, and furthermore, this story does not take place in America, nor is the author American, therefore American conceptions of race are kind of irrelevant. (Aside, of course, from the fact that the books are published in American markets and the majority of tiktok users are probably American, and also a good portion of the fanfic community that influenced Pacat was also, ostensibly, American.)
The most you could argue for, in my opinion, is colorism, since Damen is canonically darker than Laurent (unclear by how much; the most useful quote seems to be "Against [Laurent's skin], his own skin, sun-darkened, seemed brown as a nut," which implies that both a tan and a visual contrast are contributing to this impression), but to be honest I can't remember a single instance in which the color of Damen's skin plays any part in the story, except insofar as it identifies him as Akielon. That's where the real vitriol comes in -- Akielon brutes, barbarians, war-hungry warriors, simpletons, etc.. You might think, then, that the skin tone which identifies him as Akielon must be directly related to the negative stereotypes about Akielons, but that doesn't seem to be the case: Akielons, canonically, come in many different colorings and skintones, including as pale and blonde as Laurent (Jokaste), seemingly regardless of class. It appears that Veretians, despite their own variety in coloring, don't tend to get quite as dark as Damen, so where another Akielon might be able to masquerade as Veretian if they adopted enough of the culture and mannerisms, Damen doesn't have the opportunity. However, the lighter-skinned Akielon would be subject to the same prejudice as Damen if they were found out, especially if they had done what Damen had done (aka killed the beloved crown prince of Vere). The story therefore grapples with xenophobia and culture wars, with ethnic tension and national prejudice -- but I'm not sure it grapples with race, in the same way that few of the wars that Europeans fought on their own soil had anything to do with race, but that didn't make them any less deadly, prejudiced, or devastating.
(Now, interestingly, the story does seem to have a throughline of a different kind of ethnic conflict that seems to be a uniquely Australian phenomenon and is therefore invisible to western readers; apparently there is cultural tension between people of North European descent vs. people of Mediterranean descent, with the latter being on the receiving end of prejudice and even discrimination, which Pacat (of Italian descent) has stated was a subconscious but definitely present perspective in the way that Akielos and Vere are described within the prose. Again, not qualified to speak on it, but it's just interesting how different the lenses of different readers can be.)
3) Not specific to Captive Prince, but iirc the Hays code for movies and an equivalent thing in publishing meant that the industries self-censored re: any kind of controversial topics, including non-heterosexuality, which for a long time meant that the only way that queer stories could be told was if the characters died at the end or had some other tragic thing happen to convey that Actually Queerness Is Bad And Our Morals Are Good. This is of course a structural oppression problem and in no way excuses the chronic harm of such narratives, but I'm pretty sure I've read/heard accounts from contemporary readers of the time that they knew this was the case and didn't expect happy endings, but enjoyed the story anyway and either stopped reading towards the end or just disregarded the ending, the same way we in fandom might disregard the disappointing endings of our favorite shows and write our own fix-it fics. So in a way, the death penalty of queer characters was actually a gift, because it allowed for queer stories to be told at all. (Of course, at some point the censorship ended and the queer characters kept dying, which was much less great; but I also wonder how much the legacy of the inevitable queer death in the media these writers had grown up with influenced the stories they themselves were making.)
Gosh, I'm not sure why I wrote that all out and even less sure if anybody is ever gonna read any of it. 😅
I am white, female, cis, and retired. I have never been interested in fanfic or romance or lgbtq fiction. I stumbled across Captive prince through art that popped up when I was looking for something entirely different. I read all the books straight through six times. Because parts of it resonated with me In various ways. I now read and write Captive prince fanfiction and have hardly looked at anything else since Covid started. Someone in a Captive prince discord discussion referred us to this video. It is wonderful. Powerful. You addressed people’s objections so well and I think you also expressed what makes it special so well. and you do it in an entertaining, well thought out, engaging way. Thank you for this.
This is one of the best video essays ive honestly ever watched
Finally someone understands what I've been screaming about ever since I read the books (and then made the mistake of reading bad reviews).
this is phenomenal. i definitely had a moment where i was like “i need to reread this” because you explained the plot in such rich detail that i felt like i had blacked out reading the entire thing-which is hilarious because i’d sit this series in my top favorites. the conversations you had about choice, forgiveness, and disillusion as obvious takeaways highlighted nuance in specific scenes and arcs that i wasn’t able to capture in my first read, even my second. i really, REALLY appreciate that. this video essay clearly took a lot of time, effort, and thought and i feel lucky that something like this exists for a piece of media that i hold to close to my heart. i first picked up this series because i knew it was gay and i knew that the gay people fell in love at some point, which is basically the criteria for anything i choose to read these days (fellow lesbian here). i had no idea until i was firmly in it what i was going to walk away with, its still difficult for me to express all of the impacts it had, intentional or not. i say this because i’m so massively impressed by the organization of this entire video, starting with heartstopper and ending with the very real life crisis in the states-it all tied together so beautifully and your choice in topics to entertain was perfect (imo) and exciting. you have such a fantastic grasp on the story and your verbal explanations are beyond impressive to me. anyways, thank you so much for this! i’m off to share it with all my friends until they’re sick of me
it feels like there's something really significant about your point about having stuff to say that doesn't fit within the constraints of 3 minute tiktoks because you made me cry at 3 mins 30 secs
(the video remained very good. 10/10 excellent work)
@@TXWatson ahhhh this means so much to me, thank you 😭😭😭
It took me a day to find the time, but I just finished and as a fan of both booktube and breadtube, there are countless creators whose ability to articulate the breadth of meaning and nuance in the stories I love and help me understand my own love for them. And gotta say you are slotting in easily among them, this video is just so well done, and looking forward to everything else you make!
Ahh, what a beautiful compliment, thank you so much!
Can you recommend some of those creators?
@@leonardodavinci9138 channels just about books that I love the way they speak are: Adri from perpetualpages, they talk alot about queer YA that I don't always get around to, Willow from booksandbao, they are just a pleasure to listen to talk about books and stories. And FoldingIdeas is just one of my favorite channels in general, they way he's able to take apart a describe film/any topic I really admire and love listening to his analysis. hope you're having a good day
@@renni5769 thank you so much have a good day too!
Wow this was so well put together and your points were excellent. Your video was recommended to me and I'm glad I've watched it. Your vocabulary is immaculate too.
I think you nailed it when talking about the way that many criticisms against this series don't make sense.
Your little interlude about Heartstopper is also so pertinent rn. Heartstopper has been (rightfully so) praised and I think it gave amazing representation to young queer people who are going through the difficult process of coming to terms with their sexualities. But at the same time Heartstopper has become a weapon its fans use against other media they deem "problematic". As you said, Heartstopper is good, but it's not the only possible one, it's not the only experience worth to tell. Heartstopper's author has also slammed queer stories written by Asian authors while praising her book for being "purer" and "not nasty like those bls". With the rising of Asian bls, the ones that have actually started the genre decades ago, there are many people in the West that use Heartstopper and other "non problematic" fiction to attack them, while also being racist. Nothing against Heartstopper, but I don't like the author, she thinks she is much better than the poc who have been writing these stories for ages in countries where is still dangerous to be queer.
Imo in general it's silly to talk about "good representation" or "fetishization" and all those things. Queer stories are allowed to be messy. Queer characters are allowed to be evil. They are allowed to be problematic and complex. And everyone can write them, there is no reason to shame straight cis women who do that JUST because they are straight cis women. Otherwise you end up like with Heartstopper (again) where fans have harrassed that poor actor into coming out because they believed he was straight and wasn't worthy of playing a gay character. Saying only queer people are allowed to write queer stories would force people to come out and it's just wrong in general. Everyone can write everything, you don't need to experience something to be able to write about it. Obviously the reader can decide to read only works by queer authors and I have no problem with that if they don't harrass cishet authors in the process. There is room for everyone, especially now that more and more people are self-publishing.
Not to mention how the argument about fetishization is often used against any content that depicts gay sex. There is this purity culture that is coming back with young progressive people who don't realize they are speaking like conservatives. They see any form of violence as fine, but draw the line at sex.
It can be seen in the criticism against Captive Prince too. Damen is whipped to the point that he almost dies, but NO ONE talkes about that abuse when attacking the book. They only talk about the rape scene that, while still horrific, doesn't come close to literally being beaten almost to death. In general fetishization is hard to define as a concept and again it risks to limit the possibilities of queer stories to be told. They want to make them "healthier" and they often want to do it by removing the sex. It's a huge debate nowadays.
When I went into Captive Prince I expected rape every 3 pages from what I had seen in the reviews, and the book was way more tame than I thought. Obviously it doesn't take away anything from people finding this content triggering, but I have read much darker stuff, so I had 0 problems with this series.
As for slavery. I don't 100% agree, but I see where you are coming from. While obviously books don't exist in a vacuum, I think it's not fair to hold an Australian writer accountable because they write slavery in a fantasy world without considering that the topic of slavery today is related (rightfully so) to the trade of black people. The slavery in her world has nothing to do with race, as you also said, because in the ancient world there was not an idea of racism as we have it today. Damen is not a poc, Akielos takes inspiration from ancient Greece and Rome (Rome used tons of slaves of any race) so they are still white people, just really tan. A writer can only be responsible for the things they decide to write and Pacat depicted two people we now would call white and a type of slavery without racism. Yes Veretians have many prejudices against Akielons and they call them brutes and barbarians, but I don't think that's racism, considering it was (and still is) common for Northen Europe to discriminate against Southern Europe.
Pacat chose to depict a simpler form of slavery and lighter form of prejudice and she clearly didn't want to talk about racism because racism is not easy to talk about or overcome at the end of the story. Maybe she doesn't think she can do the topic justice and I applaude her for this. If a writer doesn't feel comfortable with writing a topic, it's better they let it go. She didn't try to depict a slave system powered by racism (which would be much harder to represent and to dismantle at the end of the books) and she opted for something easier to deal with. We can't now take her work and compare it to a form of slavery that is very different and much more complex (and horrifying) when she didn't try to depict that. Yes her books don't exist in a vacuum, but racism is not a theme in the story.
And the same goes for Erasmus imo. Obviously I would have preferred for him to be free, but a book doesn't need to have a happy ending for everyone. Erasmus ending up with a kind master and being happy doesn't mean that it's right. It's still wrong, but it doesn't need to be a happy ending. Nicaise too deserved a happy ending, but his death doesn't mean the Regent was right in killing him. It's the same for Erasmus: it doesn't mean the book or the author is saying "Erasmus deserves to be enslaved because slaves are happy". It's totally different from Rowling who wrote and entire essays defending the fact that in Harry Potter elves were happy to be slaves: in that case the author herself said that the elves being slaves was the right thing for them. Pacat didn't do such thing. But yes, Erasmus ending is super sad, but realistic. Just like it's realistic to think the kingdoms will have problems becoming one and abolishing slavery, it's just reality.
Overall, AMAZING review. Your points were really really good and you explained yourself beautifully. I love this series so much, it means a lot to me, and seeing you defending it brings me joy.
I'm also happy that you managed to escape your abusive relationship and were able to recover. I'm sure you are really strong.
I've been a huge fan of Captive Prince since 2016 and your video was such a good analysis! Laurent especially is a character i relate SO MUCH to because I just see so much of myself in him, and reading this book really made me finally feel like i was worthy of love after all.
Captive Prince is such a special book to me and it touched me so deeply I desperately wish people would give it a chance instead of dismissing it before even reading it because of ~the discourse~
I would happily listen to you talk about these books for at LEAST three hours. Your plot summary and summation of the themes of these books was so concise and succinct I am in awe.
I just finished the books and ughhh i'm sobbing, i can't believe how much i got attached to the characters, they are both so pure in their own unique way. I haven't felt for a character like this in years and i know that this usually comes only every once in a while. I feel empty now.
Hi. I just wanted to pop by and say thank you for such a beautiful and well thought through analysis of Captive prince. I've quietly loved this series for years but felt kinda shameful about it beacuse of the dark themes. I've grown to understand that reading about those kinds of themes and enjoying books depicting them arent inherently bad but you put it into words so beautifully. So thank you.
beautiful and nuanced analysis, thank you so much for this video! one thing i want to add about early queer representation: from early to mid 1900s, the "hays code" in the film industry essentially only allowed queer people to be depicted if the narrative condemned their actions. this usually resulted in queer character dying, since otherwise the movie would be censored.
Not that this justifies his in-text treatment, but Pacat HAS acknowledged the Erasmus Problem (in a livestream that’s on her RUclips channel). Albeit not the “I’m the type of person who was made to submit” part. But the problem that results from his continuing enslavement in Patras at the end of the series. In this q&a she acknowledged that it is a problem, and hesitated to even discuss it on a livestream (even describing the problem as a “plot hole”). She basically explained that there was a mechanical reason for the lack of resolution to Erasmus’ story: she just couldn’t find a way to include his liberation in the conclusion that made sense. She also sort of speculated that maybe the combined diplomatic efforts of Vere and Akielos might cause a shift in Patran attitudes toward slavery. Basically, gave permission for fanon or fanfic that might explore this. As you said many times in your excellent video: this is not a justification, but maybe an explanation.
Here is the livestream: ruclips.net/user/liveZ0z-UYz-V6A?si=y5czt5ZZFHc5x9Ra . Discussion of Erasmus starts at 26:10
Just binge-read the books so I could watch this and damn I have no regrets. The Captive Prince Trilogy is an amazing read. I love the characters and the ending just felt perfect.
I cannot explain it but I love political dramas and the exploration of dark themes in books. Court schemes, the idea of never knowing if you are being played, I love it. I understand that it is not for everyone but I just loved captive prince, I even loved Laurent in book one because he despite being an awful person during the first book he does not commit the single greatest crime in fiction... he is not boring, at all! There is always something happening behind the scenes with him, he keeps you on your toes.
I as most people also love fluff and lovey dovey stuff but recently I have come across the flattest most boring characters ever. It seems that people are so focused on making stuff acceptable that they forget to give it a soul. I much more prefer to see people redeem themselves, change and grow than being handed a already perfect character.
I recently read A Strange And Stubborn Endurance by Foz Meadows and this video and specifically your point about hopepunk is really making me appreciate it. Meeting the darkness of the world with screaming, defiant hope and joy will always be worth it's even when it's hard.
I can't articulate properly right now but I'm SO grateful for a long video that puts Capri in context of the time it's from. I've seen some very...unforgiving takes on TikTok that just make me so fearful to share my OTP of OTPs with people lmao. I'm so so grateful for this.
Also so glad other queer millennials reacted to heartstopper the way I did--I didn't consider it grief but that interpretation is so fitting.
Trying to get back into reading and gonna be following you on TikTok to try and feed that.
This video has been so interesting to watch, mainly because I am a Black woman who has always been entirely uninterested in the Captive Prince, mainly because of the themes of slavery and the media/art I saw by fans of the series. I learned a lot from this and it was interesting to think through and I did watch it all! It also inspired some comments for me that may be of interest to someone (or maybe not lol) so I'll share them.
As a descendant of enslaved people in the United States who still carries the stigma of slavery in my life, I find that the stories that white authors are interested in telling about slavery always fall flat for me, because they find some intellectual difference in owning slaves but knowing it is bad or finding it to be the backwards custom someone else is forcing them into and the true, what I believe to be senseless and unjustifiable, apathy for human life in 'real slavery.' I do not find a difference intellectually or in practice.
Related to this is the common trope of reinvented slavery worlds to include characters of color as slave owners when white characters are not. The insistence upon the true barbarity of slavery being only capable by characters of color or countries of color is reflected in narratives about the transatlantic slavery to this day. It is a consistent perpetuations of narratives of violence being something white people can intellectually be higher than and characters of color, especially Black people, are prone to. I think that background in this book still makes it too tied into perpetuations of anti-Black slavery rhetoric for me. But I did enjoy the video and always enjoy pagemelt content.
Akielos was inspired in Ancient Greece, Vere was inspired in Medieval France. Greek people are indeed a bit tanner than French people (and that is what Pacat means when she says that Damen's skin is darker than Laurent's), but they're still very much white. The difference is that French people are extremely white, while Greeks tend to have Mediterranean olive skin tones (which is mostly just another word for ''tan').
This video essay was very good, but if there is something that I cannot agree with are the parallels that a lot of American readers make to their own history when it comes to slavery. I cannot speak for Pacat (an Australian author who, as far as I know, has never lived in the USA) but, as an European, I never once thought that she was trying to mirror Akielos to the USA during those times or that she was trying to make a point about how that might've been different depending on who was at the top. It just made sense, because I grew up knowing that both Ancient Greece and the Roman Empire practiced slavery.
I would never want to invalidate or brush away your ancestors' suffering, so please don't take this the wrong way, but take into account that, as disgusting and inhumane as it is, slavery has existed since forever, and not all stories about slavery are meant to point at that one particular time in history when it also happened in America. Reading Captive Prince or not is entirely your decision, and I understand why you might not want to, but if you ever do decide to give it a chance, know that it's more similar to the slavery that you would see in a movie about the Roman Empire than the one you naturally associate it with.
@@blueturnips1912 obvi i watched this five months ago and i'm not going to watch it again to respond to this comment so if i misremember something forgive me. i am well aware that pacat is not picturing what we think of as people of color today. in the same time period you are explaining to me, whiteness did not exist. i am also aware that you cannot just coincidentally create your darker skinned society as having a more barbaric relationship to slavery than your lighter skinned society and have that not echo anti-Black narratives. with all the details present in this story I don't think we can just say that part wasn't intentional like everything else. I also beg Europeans to stop washing their hands of chattel slavery. If you think a society based off of a European one thus means there are no similarities to the transatlantic slave trade, you misunderstand the role of europe in the creation of the transatlantic slave trade. just because europeans are taught this as an American phenomena doesn't mean that Americans are the ones projecting it. I also grew up aware of ancient forms of slavery. I also grew up with a much more deep understanding of how horrific slavery is than most people. And I'm not intending to critique you, but I'm asking you to think critically about how your insistence that chattel slavery cannot influence an adult educated white person in the modern world's writing about slavery, no matter where they are born.
followed you over here form tiktok. this video could be two more hours and i would watch it while being riveted the entire time. I didn’t even know that captive prince was polarizing until after I read them - maybe because I came to the series years later, but I completely missed it.
I don’t think I’ll ever be able to stomach the dark romance aspects of this series, and I still have a lot of Opinions about certain aspects of it, so for that reason I’ll never read it. But this video made such a compelling case for the existence of this book and how aspects of it are profoundly helpful and important. Thank you for making this - your content on booktok is so thoughtful and I’m really glad to see the same is true for your RUclips channel
OMG this video is all I needed today, thank u! I think one of the issues with this book (not the book really, but people that reccomend it) is that people start reading it expecting romace, so when they finish the 1st book they can`t bealieve others see that "problematic piece of garbage" as romance. I`ve seen so many people reccomending this book on booktok describing it only as a romance and not talking about the tw`s, it`s quite frustrating.
Have you read/are you interested in reading Dark Rise, Pacat’s most recent work?
I want to thank you for this video. I've just ended my third re-read of this book. And what I kept thinking is that it saddens me how misunderstood this book is.
As you said I think this should be a single long book because the first book, just by itself results deeply disturbing and difficult to read. But if you keep going you will be met with a beautiful story that still brings deep reflection without utilizing a deep narration. While other characters are quite... Segregated to their roles, not so deeply scrutinized, Damen and Laurent are impeccably built, with such deepness that made them so real to me.
Also I can not stop saying how this is the best slow burn I've ever seen. I find more disturbing those "enemies to lovers" where characters despise eachother and then when they find themselves a palm apart they kiss and are suddenly in love.
Like wtf?
I feel like people stopped at the first book also because they thought THIS is what was going to happen. But no.
We don't realize it like neither does Damen. How they start to tolerate eachothers, then it's a pact and then a friendship of sort. Is gradual, natural and with all of the doubt and internal turmoil you talked about.
I just love these books and these two so much (also, I've just re read the summer palace and cried the whole time because I'm just so happy for them)
I think RUclips is an excellent platform for you and the level of care, though, and nuance you bring to all your topics is wonderful to see. In general on the internet I’ve noticed a disturbing trend of veering away from nuance and towards stark binaries of “problematic” and “unproblematic.” Your content is a lovely reassurance that nuance is alive and well 👑
I never have and probably never will read Captive Prince but man, I love listening to you talk about art, Mel! Love thinking about how art, like us, can be messy and weird and ugly, and still, beautiful and warm and worth fighting for. And that's what healing from our trauma is like too, and any art that helps us do that, any art that allows us to remember that change and growth and healing is possible and deserved no matter how cruel or harsh that trauma has made us, is art worth existing-- and that's way more important to me than it's palatability. ANYWAYS just regurgitating what you said at the end but just wanted to say it really resonated with me and ur awesome xo-- MG
thank you so much friend 😭
Very very detailed and comprehensive analysis. Really really changed my perspective. I have read them all many times and finally i feel like the discourse is getting better
I remember really liking the first book but stopping in the middle of the second. I keep regretting that and thinking I'll go back and reread and really finish the series this time.. This may be just the motivation i need! Side note, as a Berserk fan, I remember IMMEDIATELY clocking the guts/griffith influence in the two main characters lol.
3 minutes in, and holy shit, I think this is why I avoid most shows/anime set in high school, "coming of age" movies, etc. Just make me too sad for the school experience I didn't have as someone who was rather isolated. Thanks, my therapist will hear of you by name next week lol.
I'm gonna pause this, go read the book, and come back.
I was a big fan of the series but as a cis/het male who’s never really fully plunged into the world of fan fiction I could tell somethings definitely went over my head. I really loved this video and the topics and story points it hit on. Really looking forward to future content from you!
Im really glad to hear you gave it a chance. Ive been trying to convince some of my friends to read it, because its just genuinely an amazing piece of fiction but it feels like they just see it as a “gay book” and write it off as something theyre not interested in
ok but damen being most like sara crewe is absolutely amazing and so accurate. i never would have made that connection. this was a wonderful analysis, i hope you post some more on here!
This encapsulates everything. I feel like you found the words for how I myself found a lot of comfort in Captive Prince after I left a very prominent toxic/abusive relationship ❤
Theres a point about how the media critique landscape has a polarizing effect. But I also want to add that it also has a magnifying effect.
There are rational and mindful ppl on the internet. Which is why they make long vid essays instead of leaving feral comments.
My point: Speak your truth. It'll find the right ears. The algorithm will make certain of that.
This is so amazing. I have seen some very half-baked takes on this book but this very strongly reflects my own feelings about captive prince.
this is amazingly concise and touches on some things I hadn't even properly realised/understood before
AAAAAAAARGh. I need to sleep on this one. Loved the video my brain is going full speed now, thank youuu
this is such a great analysis of the trilogy! I obsessively read capri in 2017 when i was about 15 and as a kid who had JUST come out of a grooming situation it really spoke to me on processing abuse and trauma, but over the years I've dropped the trilogy as I felt that the slavery sections in the first book were Tough and I feared I was missing a huge amount of racism as a white person. Its great to see a really meaningful analysis of the series!
watched this after my captive prince reread 4 years after reading it the first time and realising this book is even better than i first thought back then, THANK YOU for speaking my mind about this series and addressing some of the common criticism it gets - some of them perfectly valid, some simply an absolute misinterpretation. i reread capri after reading dark rise and dark heir because these books reminded me that pacat is a so much better writer than people think and i wish her books would be talked about more. thank you for the video!!!!
I am 3 minutes into this video and already almost crying, like. WOOF. You really put that statement about grief into perspective for me, too. I tend to avoid a lot of mainstream gay media that I know I'd enjoy and that would be meaningful to me because, like, it wasn't for me. It didn't get to be for me when I needed it, and while I'm overjoyed it exists, I can't watch it anymore. It hurts too much.
dont have the brains for a long comment but this was a very good video, its going on my "best video essays" playlist , i will be showing this to my girlfriend when we have the time (i keep randomly ranting to her about these books i feel bad for her lmao). i hope u keep making videos like this!!
Fantastic video! You articulated so well the nuance that is often overlooked in this series , and why it resonates so well as a piece of queer literature. Looking forward to other videos that you decide to create!
As someone who has been in Dramione and Spuffy internet spaces since I was probably too young to be there, I cannot believe I've never heard the phrase 'Draco in Leather Pants'. That one is going to send me down both an introspective and an internet rabbit hole.
This is the best video essay on captive prince that I've seen. Thank you so much for your insightful and knowledgeable analysis. I've added this to my captive prince video library and I'll re-watch it when I reread the books next.
As a fan of your tik tok and of Captive Prince I couldn’t wait for this video! It definitely delivered, I love your analysis so much and look forward to everything you put on this channel!
Oh my, I've just finished the triology and desperately needed your video, I can't believe you've basically just uploaded it! It's so informative and both the context and the textual analysis are provided, I'm so impressed! How do I get as knowledgable as you? 😅 Can't wait for more of your videos down the road!
Very lovely video! It felt like a book podcast, listening to the story clips and your retelling/explanation/analysis. 10/10👌🏻
I've been wanting to watch this since I found you on tiktok a while ago, but I wanted to reread the series before I did. Well, I finally spent all day yesterday blazing through all three of them (because I agree that they should just be one big honkin' book), so today I finally got to watch. I really love the way you approach media and media criticism; you have such a generous approach that meets a work on its own ground, while also being incredibly thoughtful about the ways it interacts with its broader context. I've read a number of things recently that I've wished I could pick your brain about, so I'm very grateful that I got to go with you on a deep dive into a series that, for all its faults, is near and dear to my heart. Thanks!
Amazing video! I think this is the best thing about Captive Prince I've seen on RUclips and I'm so glad for the work you've made. I loved the way you explained everything and how you organized the info. This is something the fandom needed. For me it is kind of hard to explain the beauty and darkness of Captive Prince and watching this video was for me a way to let all my feelings go and even to appreciate the trilogy more. I'll be looking forward to othe videos you make! 💖
i have watched this an embarrassing amount of times so i feel i have to now let you know. this has been such an interesting and relaxing watch, your voice and cadence is very soothing and this is a book series i had never heard of that has now rocketed up my TBR list! looking forward to any future videos you bring out ❤️
I’m a queer cis girl, and my own experience in understanding myself and my identity was so incredibly difficult that I honestly felt that I was too weird or simply not normal. I remember when everyone around me started growing and understanding themselves. It seemed like everyone else was so capable and confident in understanding these parts of their identity. Even the media that was sort of targeted at my demographic seemed to portray people like that. It took me forever to understand enough about myself to realize I was queer. Even after I found labels I was comfortable using, I still felt so so doubtful about my own identity. I definitely felt a type of imposter syndrome, and literally any push back toward myself or the things that I related to made me rethink everything. I remember feeling so different until I discovered fanfictions and lgbt related books. Almost all of it was mlm at first, but I typically didn’t have a problem relating to the characters and stories. I guess the best way I can explain it is that everyone’s sexuality and gender identity are two extremely complex and personal traits. It’s going to be different for everyone, and sometimes it takes distorting or changing one of those traits to make someone feel comfortable enough to handle such big topics. I’ve never had a problem being perceived as/ having feminine traits, but I think one of the things that I struggled with was understanding the masculine side of myself. The mlm media that I had access to typically did a good job of creating complex characters who had a mix of feminine and masculine traits. I could relate to more than one person, and really start understanding the type of relationship I wanted and admired. When I did find wlw content, it seemed slightly harder to find that mix of traits, especially with the main couples. Honestly a lot of the earlier wlw content seemed way to close to typical straight relationships that I just couldn’t relate to. I think that in a similar way to people resonating and fully understanding shows with impossible plots from the perspective of the opposite sex, it’s normal and ok for someone to find that relatability in darker content. I think it’s just all about how individuals are able to interpret the content . I couldn’t ever really explain this until recently, but listening to your own perspective helped
Fantastic video! I loved all of your insight and analysis that helped create the amazing world that CS Pacat created. Looking forward to future videos
I actually loved the captive prince (spoilers ahead you've been warned) Laurent is my favourite character whilst Damen was physically THE captive prince, Laurent was just as trapped emotionally (kinda physically too) Laurent was deeply misunderstood. I LOVED THE TITLE. THEY BOTH WERE THE CAPTIVE PRINCE. THAT'S SO TRUE. I felt soo emotional while reading Capri it makes you connect with the character; you understand them. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR MAKING THIS VIDEO 😭😭
this was a great essay. I know it's been 2 years and you have only made one (also fantastic) essay since but i really hope to see more from you. really great job.
thank you very much for this essay video! i've read this trilogy many many years ago when i was an ignorant teenager
(whiiiiich might not have been the best idea considering the themes contained within the books). i really loved it and i cannot say how many time i've reread it since. to be perfectly honest, i had not considered or even noticed the issues that this series contained, until i looked up "captive prince" on youtube and noticed that most of the video reviews on this book series seemed to be negative. your video made me understand the crux of the issues that people have with the book. i haven't really thought too much on the theme of slavery and its progression in this book. it makes me want to reread the books.
thank you and i hope you'll have a great week!🤍
"...and if you're gonna have joy at all - and you can and you should - then you've got to learn how to find it in the dark."
Well damn. Thank you so much for this video. I love every time your videos pop up on my TikTok FYP and knowing that you're now on RUclips is so exciting. My sister threw Captive Prince at me a few years ago and begged me to read it. Book one was definitely hard to stomach and I kept giving her weird looks, but I'm glad I kept reading. I reread the trilogy last year and this video beautiful encapsulates the story. I'm super excited for whatever comes next on this channel!
What a fantastic video!! I’m so sad I didn’t find this earlier. I read captive prince when I was 13 years old, I’ve met Pacat in Melbourne and she was not thrilled about that haha but it has been my favourite book ever since. Now I’m 21 and I’ve reread it and find new aspects to adore and analyse every time. Thank you for your nuisanced thoughts, especially loved the part on gender. Just 👏👏👏
Thank you for this great analysis Mel! You're always able to explain a concept in a way I can understand it it more in depth. I can't wait to see your future booktube/breadtube videos take off😆
oh this was a much much better video than i thought it was gonna be!
I finished this trilogy yesterday, after reading it as if my life depended on it during the past week, for a reason I wasn't so sure of myself because... Well, I started this book with the wrong view. So when I got to the end, I couldn't decide: Did I thought this story was a masterpiece of media, or just the arrogance of an editor who wished for clouts? I want to mention that I read a translation of the story, as english isn't my native tongue, and have ultimately also been influenced by the clear view of the translator who clearly only saw this story as a way to put food on the plate, and only realized its worth half-way through the first book. Thanks to your wonderful video, and after thinking thoroughly about it, I made my choice about what this story was to me: I don't think I'll ever see it as one of the greatest books of all times, but I'll definitely remember it as one of the best story I have read.
It's hard for me to formulate a perfect reasoning without seeming too bold here as to why your video resonated with me so much, but one of the main things I can formulate clearly is that you helped me open my eyes as to how easily influenced by other's perception I was when reading Captive Prince. Not just by the friends surrounding me as I was summarizing the books to them, but also the translator who couldn't find enjoyment in this work and influenced the writing in my native tongue, or even the perception of what others would think if they knew what I was reading. Somehow, I think I read this story as if it was shameful. But you helped me clear the fog of the doubt that was confusing me all this time after I finished King's Rising: there's nothing shameful in this story, because in the end, there's nothing we can't tell in a story.
I'll keep a fond memory of the Captive Prince no matter what, both because of its context and its content. I'm thanking you for allowing me that.
You do a really good job of clearly articulating your thoughts. I’ve been waiting for this video ever since you talked about it on tiktok and it was well worth the wait! I can’t wait for more videos.
This was fascinating and wonderful! I have not read these books and don't plan to (I'm also 32 and I just feel like the window has passed for me... maybe if I'd gotten to them in my early 20s), but I was hooked from the very beginning. I love listening to your analysis of media, it's always thoughtful, incredibly well said, compassionate, and nuanced. I can't wait for more videos on this channel! Will watch them all, even if I'm not familiar with the source work.
That was such a great deconstruction of the captive prince trilogy I was never able to put words on the feelings I had with this book, probably becaus of my age and my lack of vocabulary, but you did it for me and I really appreciate you for that. TY
Always want more from your TikToks, so this is an excellent essay! Great job!
rewatching this for the 3rd time as I complete my first re-read of this series. I owned Captive Prince for 2 years before I got the courage to read it after finding your content. You so eloquently put into words the exact ways I felt while reading the series for the first time, and changed the way I interact with and interpret everything I have read/consumed since. Impatiently waiting for your next video on this channel!!!
Okay but how dare your Captive Prince fanmix be such complete and absolute fire?! Honestly. HONESTLY.
I'm really picky about music (not that my taste is amazing or anything; my brain's just really particular about what it vibes with and what it doesn't), so when I listen to fanmixes, the best case scenario is that I click around a few times, find a couple of tracks I vibe with, and then bounce.
Never ONCE in [counts painfully] more than two decades, have I clicked onto a fanmix, listened to the entire thing from beginning to end, become obsessed with it, and ended up listening to the whole thing at least once a week for several months. UNTIL NOW.
Why is it so good?! HOW is it so good?!!
The vibes in particular are just so immaculate? I mean it _feels_ like Captive Prince. It emotionally and psychologically _embodies_ Captive Prince. Every track is just so legit. The way it all feels cynical and wounded and ugly, but also complex and genuine and beautiful at the same time? Sublime. The way the whole mix has a sense of dynamic grandeur, while also giving flattened-affect trauma vibes? Magnificent. The way most of the tracks feel strangely timeless? Perfection.
Truly, I'm obsessed.
(Your video is also very good, and I remember thinking that you made several great points I hadn't even considered before, but uh, I forgot to comment at the time and now it's been months and I don't remember the specifics.😅 Sorry. I'm mostly just here to say, thank you for the insane fanmix; it broke me and I can't stop listening to it.)
oh my god, so many people have left such lovely comments on here over the past year and change, but this is the one my heart most yearned for, tysm 😭
This is one of my favorite videos about literature ever. It just captures precisely how I feel about these books and their themes. Just perfect.
As always your content is very profound, informed, respectful and enjoyable. Thank you for adding your voice.
love your tiktok and I'm soooo happy to see you doing longform content! the nuance you always bring was made for videos over an hour long. I've also loved captive prince for a number of years so it was truly gratifying to see someone discuss it with such precision. I will absolutely be looking out for your next video!
What an amazing video!! I read the trilogy a while ago and since then I haven't been able to get it out of my head for a few months, so many points and so many parallels! When I saw a video about 1 hour long I couldn't believe it, I thought I wouldn't be able to watch it because I don't even know how to speak English well, but I watched the whole thing and didn't even notice the time passing. Great video! The editing is fun (the church music with the topic name written on it gave me jump scares several times LOL) and you speak very well, great diction and the topics are well organized. I really loved it, a work of art! I started to love the trilogy even more, I saw many topics that I hadn't even stopped to think about. I also have my own criticisms about it, but they end up being minuscule compared to how much this books have to serve us. Thank you for the incredible video, in addition to the quality content, it served for me as a listening lesson 💖💖💖
very thorough review of a book series i read a few years ago
So happy you started creating long form content and even happier you started with Captive Prince.
Thank you so much for a mentally, emotionally and intellectually mature conversation about this book series and the serious issues that are explored in the story. I was debating between reading this series and another danmei series. I will be reading Captive Prince, first at least.
Mel, wow. I read the series just to be able to watch your video analysis. Both blew me away. Thank you for your thoughtful content. I learn so much.
Please give us some captive prince fan fic recs. I know you have them xo
I never interact in other spaces so I just wanted to take a moment to thank you for helping me think and consider and evaluate the media and art I consume and enjoy!
Thank you so much for such a nuanced and complete analysis, I enjoyed it thoroughly and I can't wait to rewatch it again later. I'm one of those pesky gay cis men above 30 for whom this series means the world, something of a rarity in this specific fandom, so your opening salvo really resonated with me. I first came across Captive Prince around 2013, and we have been going steady ever since. What can I say? Sometimes us big boys need to escape to Verakielos, too. I've also found a lot of solace and joy with the new wave of content creators and fans who are engaging with the series in new and meaningful ways, so thank you for that too. P.S. On a side note, the production of your video is top notch, kudos.
I just wanted to take a moment to thank you for creating this amazing video essay on Captive Prince. I've watched it 7 times so far and it never gets old! I also appreciate how you were able to explain the themes and concepts to my friends who couldn't get through the first book because of the triggering content. This video essay has been a great way for them to understand why I love the series and I'm so grateful for your hard work. Thank you again!
I’ve been waiting for this video!! Thank you so much!! I’m not articulate enough to say good words lol but I loved and appreciated this videooo and all your thoughts
This was excellent! While CaPri wasn't one I enjoyed during the moment, it's been really interesting listening to your review and getting a better grasp of some of the themes Pacat wrote throughout the series. I also really emphasized with your final thoughts on L's trauma and finally having something click that he can forgive himself. Really great video! Hope you have some other books that bring out this kind of in-depth analysis!
Really enjoyed this, your content is always so well thought out and articulated. I've been looking forward to this video for a while and would love to see more like it!
I read this series in one weekend about 6 years ago, I loved it, but my memory of it has become foggy, and since then I’ve seen so much criticism that it made me question if I should have liked it, and almost feel ashamed that I did. I really appreciate your perspective on it and your thoughtful responses to the criticisms. I think I’m going to re-read the series with these arguments in mind.
Also, I don’t know if you’ve since read the Heartstopper books, but I would argue that in books 3 and 4 they do touch on deeper topics, and acknowledge some of the ways that queer youth are impacted by the world we live in.
Thank you! I've read these books and I just loved it. I heard so much criticism toward it... So, thank you for your analysis.
This is personal, but when I first found these books, I was just getting free of an abusive relationship with someone I had thought of as an older, mentor figure. I didn't have the terminology to realize I was being groomed, but I was the same age as Laurent when it started, and I felt incredibly bitter for reasons I couldn't articulate. Reading about someone overcoming that---someone who felt the same shame and fear as me---was incredibly vindicating. I have a lot of the same criticisms as you, but I'm also innately grateful that these books exist because they gave me a framework to heal.
If you haven't already, I highly recommend reading "The Persian Boy" and the rest of the Alexander Trilogy, written by Mary Renault. I always think of Captive Prince as in dialogue with "The Persian Boy," though I don't know if Pacat ever read it.
Thank you so much for such a wonderful analysis of Captive Prince. This series is very near and dear to me. It was a joy to listen to you bring up both praise and criticism in a very positive way that also sheds light on how queer media and dark themes are viewed by society in both the past and present day. Bravo! ❤
ugh oh how I love captive prince so much. loved your analysis. this was perfect :')
Finally watched this! I love your tiktok account and this is even better. Can't wait for what's next!
I loved this, a nuanced view with a hopeful ending, and you changed my mind about a few things with this series. As a fic writer from the early 00s, I'd love to see more history about this period, the parts you did share brought back some memories haha. I think it's a topic that not enough has been said about, especially considering how much it's affected our culture and still does, Captive Prince is a great example of that.
I parasocially love you and everything you produce.
This might be my new comfort video essay. Great work!
I love this video and am so happy to see this series praised and criticized in the way that you have. It’s such an important series to me, I’m so glad to see others feel the same way
I just found you on tiktok and when I saw that you will also do video essays over here I was ecstatic! I love your content over there, but I wasn't expecting you to talk about and be a fan of this trilogy, wow! As someone who also grew up in the 90s as an LGBTQ+ kid, it feels like you're just putting all my thoughts into words. It was a wild ride to live through those days and see the enormous difference in queer media rep we have now, like day and night, and I feel (and thank you!) that you explained it so well. I wish we had had something wholesome and sweet like Heartstopper back then too, but instead we got Queer As Folk, lol, and that inevitably shaped our way of telling and consuming stories, especially romantic ones. I completely understand why Captive Prince is a huge no for many people, especially younger audiences, and why it's so polarizing, but when you grow up reading and watching extremely dark LGBTQ stories, you understand why it exists and why a lot of us read it. And maybe you don't enjoy all of it (the whole thing with The Regent will always make my skin crawl), but still you become a fan because it's really good, complex and nuanced storytelling and characters. The entire video was such a delight and it made me want to reread the books to see some very intereresting details you pointed out that I han't seen before. So yeah, basically I'm a fan of the books and now I'm a big fan of your content too. I'll be looking forward for more of it.
I appreciate you talking about this amazing, beautiful series with such a critical and analytical lens. It’s one of my favourite series of all time and I’ve seen it dragged through the mud for years. I appreciate that you were able to articulate why these often criticised aspects of the story work while also pointing out the flaws because so many people conflate it’s content with the author/reader’s moral sensibilities. I could talk about this series for hours so I enjoyed your entire video greatly!!
I love captive prince and I wish more people would give it a chance, and I think your video could help with that!! I’d love to hear your takes on other content too!!
You added a new perspectives for me on this book that I love, gotta read it again now with all of this in mind (and in my lenguage for full understanding this time 😅) thank you for making it more special ❤️
Thank you for this analyses! I read the books very often but never really understood why the sa scene was in the book, this explains so much
Amazing, truly. More please.
i just love ur critical analyses of work, you can tell youve read a lot and you have so much theory beneath your speaking to each point. i love your vids!!!!!!!!
i think it would be awesome if you had specific references to theory you mention within the videos!!!!! anyway thanks for making this, its so good, and i'm so excited to watch more of your videos!!!
As soon as I finish this trilogy, I'll be coming back to finish this video. I follow your content in TikTok and appreciate your thoughtful approach to books/storytelling and the community surrounding it. I'm looking forward to your long-form content as well. Thank you for your work!
i bought captive prince and princes gambit at a convention when i was 15 on a whim because the author said she was signing them - i proceeded to read it for the next ten years. ill always be mad i lost my copy of the first book
This was INCREDIBLE thank you! I love this series and while it’s not perfect, I think that it is amazing and I’m glad to see it get some love. I’m so happy you talked about fanfiction. I grew up reading it and I think that’s why I was am so drawn to this style.
Wow I love this video, will definitely be coming back to this again and very excited for more videos like this. I have not read the books (or seen any discourse really) but I love the way you so thoughtfully and generously engage with media and the reactions to it and I am really glad you have moved into a longer format. I adore your final point on queer liberation not involving sanitation or appeal to the oppressor, including in art. Thank you for this video.
(My only criticism/request is format based. I was wondering if it would be possible for future video to have a voice over of the chapter titles. For me this is helpful because I listen to video essays while doing housework, but it's also/more importantly a good accessibility measure for blind/low vision people. Thanks for considering!)
This was fantastic, thank you