Good stuff. I don't use the release tab anymore - I've had issues with the shooting line not deploying from that tab if the wrap tension was too high - so now, I just wrap the line around the rear loading tab on the spear. No more issues after.
This doesn't answer anything for me. The only thing that matters is accuracy and penetration. Of course a shaft shot into open water will go farther with a double wrap. Especially if you dont have a reel lol. I would love to see your results on a thick foam target. Does having the extra line wrap create any drag that negatively effects penetration? Once you are beyond the range of a single wrap, how much shaft drop or lack of accuracy do you have? How much penetrating power is left once you are outside single wrap distance? To me those are some of the questions that you could try to answer before you decide for yourself if a double wrap is worth it.
You bring up fair points. This test could have been much better by controlling for variables that could have revealed more insights. I still think the reel tension variable when single vs. double wrapping is a valid data point to consider in the equation. I will make a more comprehensive test in the future that accounts for the factors you stated above. Need to gather the appropriate gear and find a pool to test. Appreciate the critical analysis.
This is a great idea. But distance traveled isn’t really what is most important. It would be interesting to see the Maximum Effective Range for your set up. Meaning the furthest distance you still have enough velocity/power to penetrate a flopper through your target species. Shaft travel may not matter if you can’t penetrate a fish at furthest distance.
I think there’s no question a double wrap is “better” (on paper) in a pool. The problem is giving a fish, what is it I don’t even know, over twice the amount of a “head start” to run into a cave is a nightmare. Id seriously rather single wrap even if it only saves me one bad deep rocked up fish a year. I hate retrieval dives. But also I think a lot of that can be overcome with a double wrap if one gets good at immediately throwing their gun behind them after a shot and grabbing the line as soon as possible. As a reflex. But still, all things being equal, if you’re reflexive about grabbing your line the single wrap is going to be so much better.
Bro i do 4.5 meter of mono nylon and then connect it with dynema, and my 85r does 5 plus meter shots against current, or in waves, that may as well be like 4 wrap, and there is no problem. Monophile is a must since dynema slows down the spear, reduces accuracy, shoots under target, your spool should never start rolling before you hit the target or the spear is at the end of maximum reach limit. also there is specific way to wrap entire mono and dynema on pathos roller guns, and some people do have a problem with that, also there is the issue of how to sharpen the spear since it is not pencil sharpened, witch also change reach of the spear this is just some advice from someone who started spearfishing when I was 10, now I am 55 so you do the math :) It is nice to see someone explore things and do the tests so go on and good luck with the channel :)
Appreciate the feedback and sharing your personal experience with different configurations. Here are my thoughts as NOT a hydrodynamics expert: - Mono Leader: I do think that mono could potentially extend the range due to having less mass than braid. But I don't think this would give you an additional 5 meters (16ish feet). Seems ambitious. - Wrapping a line more than 2x: This in theory would possibly eliminate the reel being a factor in slowing down the shaft since the shaft would likely reach it's maximum effective range before the wraps unravel. But I do think the risks of tangling outweigh the potential benefits of wrapping more than 2x. My thinking is even if the shaft had no line on it how far could it theoretically go, but more importantly how far could it go with enough energy to penetrate the fish. What are your thoughts?
@@divespeareat Ok, thx for answer, and here is what i tried and tested. Shaft max distance without attaching to gun with 16mm roller band and14mm booster is 12. 7 meter in no curent and or waves. That is if the shaft is pencil sharpened. If pyramid sharpened the shaft goes a little more distance, but in turn the power drop is more noticeable. Penetration wise on 10 m pencil sharpened does the styrofoam aprox 8mm under target with full wing penetration while pyramid has about 11mm and not full penetration. Results are better then 16 x 2 config, since accuracy wise 16,14 combo is bettet, at least for me. Also bare in mind that shaft it selph WAS alteted, fire procesed, and grinded as well as polished. Can not say the same for shafts from store. Also the wrapping of dynema is extrimly important.
Really appreciate the intel. This info is super helpful! I think I would want the pencil tip vs. pyramid tip for penetration than range. Sounds like you have way more experience than me so this is valuable to me and other readers I'm sure. Thanks again and dive safe!
I believe double wraps are overkill by quite a lot, but single wraps don’t extend enough. Haha. There’s a Cameron kirconnel vid where he suggests wrap and a half, but you don’t get to use the guide line on the muzzle for your real. He says that doesn’t bug him. I may try that soon. All my guns are single wrapped
What is the effective shooting range of your gun? There is a difference between a spear shaft penetrating a 20+ kg amberjack, compared to a thin 5 kg mahi. The more mass the target fish has, the closer the spearo will need to get to the fish using the same speargun, to achieve a shot that makes it through the body. The effective shooting range can vary a lot! Ideally, the flopper must penetrate and exit the body of the fish to be able to then open and ‘lock’ the fish on the spear. For a speargun (here as example with a 120 cm barrel length roller gun I use) the maximum spear shaft reach would roughly be = the length of the spear shaft + the total length of the shooting line. 1 wrap = Shaft length + Shaft line + Wrap 1 = 160 + 120 + 240 = 520 cm = 5.2 m (17+ feet / 204 inches)
2 wraps = Shaft length + Shaft line + Wrap 1 + Wrap 2 = 160 + 120 + 240 + 240 = 760 cm = 7.6 m (~25 feet) One should not forget that an effective shooting range means we are able to land the fish. This at least means that the spear has enough energy to penetrate the body of the fish. Therefore, the effective shooting range for a 30 kg amberjack will be far smaller than shooting a thin mahi at the same distance. For massive fish we need to get closer anyway! Looks like in practice - especially if we target larger fish - a 1-wrap shooting line is all we need. Some food for thoughts! Best wishes to all spearos and safe dives! Regards from tropical Panama >
Thank you for the very detailed breakdown. And you are 100% right to factor in shaft factors, and wrap methods which ultimately ladders up to effective range for a target fish.
I enjoyed the wetsuit. It is flexible and it was very comfortable for me (i have longer torso). After trying on some other brands it felt like the Salvimar wetsuit was thiner for the same thickness.
I only run dyneema because it has less memory, and most importantly, I've had crimps fail but never a knot. There are more disadvantages to mono than advantages.
In this video I was using a GoPro handlebar mount at the rear of the speargun. I used stainless steel washers and hardware to secure it. It works ok but it disrupts your sightline and dips the GoPro slightly when you shoot.
I got a question that I would really be glad if you will consult me , i just got started and i live in the Middle East, I bought a pathos 110 laser because I didn’t new what size will suit for my level (noob) and for the geographic location (middle east- not that big of a fish selection) do you think that its a right choice ? Thanks🙏
I think a 110 is fine but a bit on the long side if you are mainly going for smaller fish (I assume closer to shore). A 110 is a good shore and light blue water gun, generally speaking. I am not familiar with the waters in the middle east, but if visibility is usually med-low you may want to consider a shorter gun. Maybe 75, 85 or 95. In summary, I think you are fine 110 is a good length.
I have a woodie mkII 750 and it’s only got a single wrap. The shooting distance is only like one meter and the gun has the potential for two bands so I feel the line is too short. Do you think I should get a double wrap?
I would suggest doing a double wrap. Shoot with a double wrap a couple times to ensure you don't tangle if you do so. Also it sounds like you may not have a reel on your Woodie, I would suggest getting a reel as it will help you when you start to go for larger fish.
@@divespeareat I tried it out yesterday in the water and it definitely needs more than a single wrap, it only went like a meter before springing back at me, maybe even a triple wrap
If you have a 8 band gun then perhaps ahhah. I am of the impression that you should have enough line wrapped that allows your speargun to shoot at its effective range without getting pulled by the reel.
Good stuff. I don't use the release tab anymore - I've had issues with the shooting line not deploying from that tab if the wrap tension was too high - so now, I just wrap the line around the rear loading tab on the spear. No more issues after.
Ooo that is interesting! Thanks for sharing that insight, I will have to try adding more tension to see if I get the same result.
Thank you for testing and sharing this method
Glad it was helpful. Dive safe!
This doesn't answer anything for me. The only thing that matters is accuracy and penetration. Of course a shaft shot into open water will go farther with a double wrap. Especially if you dont have a reel lol. I would love to see your results on a thick foam target. Does having the extra line wrap create any drag that negatively effects penetration? Once you are beyond the range of a single wrap, how much shaft drop or lack of accuracy do you have? How much penetrating power is left once you are outside single wrap distance? To me those are some of the questions that you could try to answer before you decide for yourself if a double wrap is worth it.
You bring up fair points. This test could have been much better by controlling for variables that could have revealed more insights. I still think the reel tension variable when single vs. double wrapping is a valid data point to consider in the equation.
I will make a more comprehensive test in the future that accounts for the factors you stated above. Need to gather the appropriate gear and find a pool to test.
Appreciate the critical analysis.
This is a great idea. But distance traveled isn’t really what is most important. It would be interesting to see the Maximum Effective Range for your set up. Meaning the furthest distance you still have enough velocity/power to penetrate a flopper through your target species. Shaft travel may not matter if you can’t penetrate a fish at furthest distance.
Love the vid! Great info
Thanks Jack! Appreciate the support
thanks a lot, thats what i needed!
Glad it was helpful!
I think there’s no question a double wrap is “better” (on paper) in a pool. The problem is giving a fish, what is it I don’t even know, over twice the amount of a “head start” to run into a cave is a nightmare. Id seriously rather single wrap even if it only saves me one bad deep rocked up fish a year. I hate retrieval dives. But also I think a lot of that can be overcome with a double wrap if one gets good at immediately throwing their gun behind them after a shot and grabbing the line as soon as possible. As a reflex. But still, all things being equal, if you’re reflexive about grabbing your line the single wrap is going to be so much better.
Thanks for the informative video.
Glad it was helpful. Thank you for the kind words
Bro i do 4.5 meter of mono nylon and then connect it with dynema, and my 85r does 5 plus meter shots against current, or in waves, that may as well be like 4 wrap, and there is no problem. Monophile is a must since dynema slows down the spear, reduces accuracy, shoots under target, your spool should never start rolling before you hit the target or the spear is at the end of maximum reach limit. also there is specific way to wrap entire mono and dynema on pathos roller guns, and some people do have a problem with that, also there is the issue of how to sharpen the spear since it is not pencil sharpened, witch also change reach of the spear this is just some advice from someone who started spearfishing when I was 10, now I am 55 so you do the math :) It is nice to see someone explore things and do the tests so go on and good luck with the channel :)
Appreciate the feedback and sharing your personal experience with different configurations.
Here are my thoughts as NOT a hydrodynamics expert:
- Mono Leader: I do think that mono could potentially extend the range due to having less mass than braid. But I don't think this would give you an additional 5 meters (16ish feet). Seems ambitious.
- Wrapping a line more than 2x: This in theory would possibly eliminate the reel being a factor in slowing down the shaft since the shaft would likely reach it's maximum effective range before the wraps unravel. But I do think the risks of tangling outweigh the potential benefits of wrapping more than 2x. My thinking is even if the shaft had no line on it how far could it theoretically go, but more importantly how far could it go with enough energy to penetrate the fish.
What are your thoughts?
@@divespeareat Ok, thx for answer, and here is what i tried and tested. Shaft max distance without attaching to gun with 16mm roller band and14mm booster is 12. 7 meter in no curent and or waves. That is if the shaft is pencil sharpened. If pyramid sharpened the shaft goes a little more distance, but in turn the power drop is more noticeable. Penetration wise on 10 m pencil sharpened does the styrofoam aprox 8mm under target with full wing penetration while pyramid has about 11mm and not full penetration. Results are better then 16 x 2 config, since accuracy wise 16,14 combo is bettet, at least for me. Also bare in mind that shaft it selph WAS alteted, fire procesed, and grinded as well as polished. Can not say the same for shafts from store. Also the wrapping of dynema is extrimly important.
Really appreciate the intel. This info is super helpful! I think I would want the pencil tip vs. pyramid tip for penetration than range. Sounds like you have way more experience than me so this is valuable to me and other readers I'm sure. Thanks again and dive safe!
I believe double wraps are overkill by quite a lot, but single wraps don’t extend enough. Haha. There’s a Cameron kirconnel vid where he suggests wrap and a half, but you don’t get to use the guide line on the muzzle for your real. He says that doesn’t bug him. I may try that soon. All my guns are single wrapped
I can see what you mean. I will take a look at Cameron Kirconnel's video about the wrap and a half. Thanks for the info
impressive detail
Glad it was helpful
What is the effective shooting range of your gun?
There is a difference between a spear shaft penetrating a 20+ kg amberjack, compared to a thin 5 kg mahi.
The more mass the target fish has, the closer the spearo will need to get to the fish using the same speargun, to achieve a shot that makes it through the body. The effective shooting range can vary a lot!
Ideally, the flopper must penetrate and exit the body of the fish to be able to then open and ‘lock’ the fish on the spear.
For a speargun (here as example with a 120 cm barrel length roller gun I use) the maximum spear shaft reach would roughly be = the length of the spear shaft + the total length of the shooting line.
1 wrap = Shaft length + Shaft line + Wrap 1
= 160 + 120 + 240 = 520 cm = 5.2 m (17+ feet / 204 inches)
2 wraps = Shaft length + Shaft line + Wrap 1 + Wrap 2
= 160 + 120 + 240 + 240 = 760 cm = 7.6 m (~25 feet)
One should not forget that an effective shooting range means we are able to land the fish. This at least means that the spear has enough energy to penetrate the body of the fish. Therefore, the effective shooting range for a 30 kg amberjack will be far smaller than shooting a thin mahi at the same distance. For massive fish we need to get closer anyway!
Looks like in practice - especially if we target larger fish - a 1-wrap shooting line is all we need. Some food for thoughts!
Best wishes to all spearos and safe dives!
Regards from tropical Panama >
Thank you for the very detailed breakdown. And you are 100% right to factor in shaft factors, and wrap methods which ultimately ladders up to effective range for a target fish.
Thanks my brother
Glad it was helpful.
Thank you!
You're welcome!
What are your thoughts on the wetsuit ?
I enjoyed the wetsuit. It is flexible and it was very comfortable for me (i have longer torso). After trying on some other brands it felt like the Salvimar wetsuit was thiner for the same thickness.
I only run dyneema because it has less memory, and most importantly, I've had crimps fail but never a knot. There are more disadvantages to mono than advantages.
Thanks for sharing! My updated line set up I am using mono and crimps and I have noticed some clear differences. Will provide my feedback on a video.
What gopro mount do u use and how well does it work were u have it?
I've been trying to figure out a good mount for my 115 sniper roller
In this video I was using a GoPro handlebar mount at the rear of the speargun. I used stainless steel washers and hardware to secure it. It works ok but it disrupts your sightline and dips the GoPro slightly when you shoot.
@@divespeareat have u found a better setup for the camera
@@seanpotgieter5997 Not yet. I have been using the head mount but I prefer the gun mount. Still looking
I got a question that I would really be glad if you will consult me , i just got started and i live in the Middle East, I bought a pathos 110 laser because I didn’t new what size will suit for my level (noob) and for the geographic location (middle east- not that big of a fish selection) do you think that its a right choice ? Thanks🙏
I think a 110 is fine but a bit on the long side if you are mainly going for smaller fish (I assume closer to shore). A 110 is a good shore and light blue water gun, generally speaking. I am not familiar with the waters in the middle east, but if visibility is usually med-low you may want to consider a shorter gun. Maybe 75, 85 or 95.
In summary, I think you are fine 110 is a good length.
@@divespeareatthank you very much
I have a woodie mkII 750 and it’s only got a single wrap. The shooting distance is only like one meter and the gun has the potential for two bands so I feel the line is too short. Do you think I should get a double wrap?
I would suggest doing a double wrap. Shoot with a double wrap a couple times to ensure you don't tangle if you do so. Also it sounds like you may not have a reel on your Woodie, I would suggest getting a reel as it will help you when you start to go for larger fish.
@@divespeareat thanks, I’ll definitely try to put a double wrap. It doesn’t have a reel mount :/
@@sir.benzerlot4571 Try it out! It should help with your range slightly. Let me know how it goes
@@divespeareat I tried it out yesterday in the water and it definitely needs more than a single wrap, it only went like a meter before springing back at me, maybe even a triple wrap
Good feedback! Thanks for the update. I would test out anything beyond a double wrap to ensure that the line doesn't get tangled.
I run wire lead attached to braid reel
Wow that is aggressive. Do you hunt near rocks often and do you ever run into tangling issues?
@@divespeareat I do hunt near rocks and wrecks and never had a tangle
I use 4 spearguns and all with double wrap.
Double wrap is the way to go forsure! The distance speaks for itself!
if i wrap it 5 times does it shoot further?
If you have a 8 band gun then perhaps ahhah. I am of the impression that you should have enough line wrapped that allows your speargun to shoot at its effective range without getting pulled by the reel.
DOES IT MATTER I'VE SEEN NO DIFFERENCE?
Based on this unscientific study results, it does make a difference. More resistance from the reel earlier will slow down the shaft.