Great video Bjørn. The Hyundai UK website reports that the Ioniq EV has a battery power of 98kW. From data I've captured using Torque the max charge rate is at 390V, to finally answer the question of max charging rate for the Ioniq somebody needs to plug into a rapid charger with a confirmed charging current of 98kW/390V ~ 250A.
15 to 80 percent in 20 min where speed drops after 75 is still good. That is like taking 20 min break after 2.5 hrs of driving. You need a break anyways
In my opinion, 40 KWh battery is enough for ioniq. More battery is always good but it comes with a price tag and lower efficiency. A larger battery with less cost is like 20 years down the lane when EV will be mainstream. What hyundai has done with ioniq is finding the sweet spot of aerodynamics, weight and efficiency to get the best deal.
Manufactures increase capacities little by little because of keeping the existing design as batteries density increase, for example they did with 30 KWh Nissan and 41 KWh Zoe. As for Hyundai 28 KWh, they have designed a range which is sufficient for 90 percent of public for 90 percent of the time. If this model does not appeal to you, go for its hybrid brother or even go a for Tesla Model S 85 or 100 KWh version. As for me, i have never driven an Electric Car or seen anywhere in my country Pakistan but it makes a lot of sense of having it since we usually drive at 70 Kmh in cities and 100 Kmh in motorways.
2.3C is crazy. 100kW = 500V * 200A 120kW = 500V * 240A 150kW = 500V * 300A 350kW = 1000V * 350A Of course, the voltage on the Ioniq is around 320-350 based on the SOC. 350V * 200A = 70kW Did Hyundai reduce the amp on the newer model or the charging station outputting only 190A?
Yeah, its still a pretty great charging speed and way better than any other current non-Tesla EV can do. It will be very interesting to see what LG's new NCM811-based packs are capable of. They're expected to be used in the Kona EV and LEAF 60kWh.
So it needs a bigger battery to charge faster. Given 2.3C, you need a 45kWh battery to charge with 100kW. Hyundai doesn't claim it charges with 100kW, they just claim 0-80% in 23min on a 100kW charger. That translates to the 65kW peak you see.
I suggest in appreciation of your contribution to popularise the use of EVs, and for the sake of simplicity’s, the unit of charging should be changed to Bjorn, where every one “Bjorn” is equal to one “kWh” !
I agree, it looked like a current limit on the charger up to 75%, then the car’s BMS limited it. It was able to add 50% charge (15% to 65%) in 15 minutes. That’s pretty good. Quadruple the battery size and quadruple the charger power and you will be able to add some serious range in just 15 minutes. This pretty much proves what Fisker eMotion claims 125 miles in 9 minutes with a fully charged range of 400 miles is all available right now.
Richard Petek, yes, while I hope we can get the next gen batteries soon, I think we in the next few years we will just rely on putting massive amount of batteries in the cars and finding a charger for it. But I hope ultimately they can achieve a 80% charge in 5 minutes so that we can have EV charging station set up like a gas station. I can imagine a charging station with about 8 chargers and each charger has a status on how many minutes till the car will be finished charging to the user selected SOC (limited to 80%). Maybe they can have 100kw, 250kw, 500kw and 1000kw lanes, and each lane charges per minute based on the chargers capabilities, like $10/hr, $25/hr, $50/hr and $100/hr. This would be to keep a slow charging car like a 2018 Tesla from clogging up the 1000kw charger, and make it go use the 100 kw charger. I think it will be a difficult and slow transition before we have a decent set of charging standards, and billing system. Too many EV drivers are all about me me me me and free free free free. But if you think about the business owner who has a gas station converted to a charging station, he can’t afford to let a car sit at the charger for an hour for 25¢ profit. And this thing about “well the outdated EV’s driver will go inside and buy overpriced snacks” is not valid because the a fast charging EV customer will also buy snacks, leave and make room for another customer to charge fast buy snacks and leave.
Richard Petek, the Fisker eMotion doesn’t use the much hyped graphene or solid state battery. Just good old fashion lithium ion, 140 kWh, LG Chem, with all specs clearly within reason. 400+ mile range with 140 kWh using 350watt-hours/mile, check. Able to add 125 miles range in 9 minutes? 30% charge in 9 minutes? As shown by the ionic, that well within current technology. Just need a 250 kw charger, also well within current technology, and some are already being installed. Fisker should do a better job separating the old hype of 500 mile range and recharge in 1 minute. That’s not available with today’s battery technology, and the and even if it was, it would require a 9000 kw charger. Basically 5x Tesla semi mega chargers all plugged in at once. LOL. But we can make the charger if someone actually made a battery like that. But most likely they would tone it down to 5 minutes and only need 1 semi megacharger equivalent, just to reduce charging cable size, which would basically need to be liquid cooled.
Richard Petek, the Tesla semi megacharger well have an estimated 1600 kw (400 kw per battery, over each of the 4 sets of pins). In order to push even this small power, Tesla may stack each 200kwh battery to about 800v instead of the 400v, this would allow them to use available cable sizes. When we try to get the same 1000 kw into a 100 kWh battery, it’s also going to need to be at least 800v, and the rest of the current would be done with liquid-cooled charge cables, including inside the car from the charge plug to the battery. They will need to do an overall analysis to determine optimal battery voltage that makes wire size (current) and separation/insulation (voltage) all fall into place. The bigger problem is whoever charge current can exceed design discharge current overload protection (fuse wires on each cell), it adds complexity. Basically now on each cell you would need two fuse wires, each with a diode capable of handling the current. For example, with a 100 kWh pack you might want 5C fuse for discharge but will need a 12C fuse wire for charging. But if the car is a 1000 kw hypercar, it will work with a normal fuse wire that limits it to 12c. I think if someone comes up with a battery that can charge in 5 minutes, we will find a way to get juice to it.
Richard Petek, the Tesla semi megacharger has 4 sets of charge pins (8 pins), basically it 4x 400 kw chargers combined. And we already have 400kw chargers available. That’s only 800v @ 500amp per charger. The model 3 EPA report shows it is rated at 525A, so I think it’s just off-the-shelf cable. Really the only thing thy can’t do right now without degradation is 10c charging of the battery. Let’s assume that 10% power lost as heat, so we need to dissipate 10kw of heat for about 5 minutes.of course we can already build bigger better heat exchangers. Porsche mission E already uses 800v DC system. So cables, plugs, insulation requirements are already figured out and in use. If someone makes a good battery, we can charge it using existing technology. And we are no longer worried about efficiency, that’s the beauty of it all. If we can get free energy from the Sun, and pump that in a battery t get 300 miles range in 5 minutes, we don care if 20% get wasted, or ever 50%, all we care about is if it’s sustainable and if we can add more miles per minute than an ICE vehicle, safely and reliably, without excessive degradation.
Richard Petek, the author of that article was an idiot, combining Fisker’s old hype with what the eMotion actually uses. I think Alex covered that well that the solid state stuff is just on the Fisker drawing board, not in the eMotion. All the stuff about 500 miles, 1 minute charging, 2.5x is just hype. But what Fisker said about the eMotion is all currently available technology. “Fisker also announced that it will display the new battery technology at the Consumer Electronics Show in January. It will be on display along with a close-to-production EMotion, which will be using more conventional lithium-ion batteries from LG Chem. That car has its own impressive claims with a range of more than 400 miles and the ability to regain around 125 miles of range in about 9 minutes. It will also retail for around $130,000, and the company is taking $2,000 reservations now. Fisker intends for it to go into production in 2019.” This article explains about both batteries and why some got confused: www.engadget.com/2017/11/14/fisker-has-filed-patents-for-solid-state-batteries/ As far as chargers, that will all get sorted out. And Tesla doesn’t have a 10 year new start on anything. The techs scattered all over the place, and Tesla doesn’t own proprietor rights to anything important. Tesla’s US charge plug will NOT be the standard. Someday it will just be the Betamax charger than nobody wants. But before then Tesla will get real and change to CCS2 or whichever one becomes standard. All those supercharging stations and locations will be removed once people can charge at a real high speed charger. There will be no need for places to have “Tesla only” chargers unless it’s on Tesla property selling ludicrous coffee. Tesla’s superchargers were a necessary waste of money to help get over a hurdle.
I was wondering what will be the new chargers with higher voltages good for, when the car batteries have still under 400V. I got the answer in the last video from Transport evolved from CES 2018. Continental has made a voltage converter for EV s, that can charge the 400V battery with high power on a 800V charger. High currents are a problem for the chargers, because its "long" cables need to be thick or actively cooled, converting the voltage down in the car right next to the battery is a clever idea and it seem to be pretty effective. Watch that episode.
It is amazing how much infrastructure you have. Where I live which has a population about 80% of Norway and is 166% the size of Norway we have 10 DCFC. And 2 are faster than 50 kW and 5 or so are 20-22 kW. We have a bunch more chargers coming but they are only 50 kW and $20/hour. Maybe 20 more. There are also 24 Tesla Superchargers in 4 locations. Most of the slow DCFC are free to use as are the 50+ AC chargers but those are 5.7-6.6 kW some go up to 15+ kW though. Most of those are free with premium EV only parking. We also have 1000's of level one plugs. 120V/10A.
Is the Ioniq really supposed to charge at 100 kW? Or is it just called to be "compatible" with 100 kW chargers, but the actual charge rate is limited by the car? Anyway: The Ioniq is charging at just over 2C: Battery of about 30 kWh, charge rate of 60..70 kW. Which gives a relative charge rate of about 2 kW per 1 kWh of battery capacity, hence 2C. This relative charge rate is the key factor. This 2C is really, really impressive. Tesla is just above 1C. Even if a 75 kWh Tesla charges at 120 kW it is "only" 1.6 C. (But I think the 75 kWh Teslas max out at about 100 kW which is 1.33 C.)
I also couldn't find any official statement by Hyundai that claims that it can charge at 100 kW. They only advertise with 23 minutes charging time at a 100 kW charger, which doesn't mean it goes up to 100 kW charging power.
As the charging is controlled by the BMS it will be compatible with 100++ chargers but never draw more than programmed by Hyundai. Interesting that there is so little technical information about this in the manual. A tad off-topic, but I have the Ioniq and just love it! This is a well built car with tons of equipment for a very good price.
I think this demonstrates we do NOT need 60-80kWh packs for average commuter cars, which is the vast majority of the needs of the public. 40kWh battery packs that can fast charge very quickly are a better idea. I do think they should drop a ~45kWh battery pack in the Ioniq, reduce the cost and mass market it, and they'd have a big time seller if they manufactured them and put them on lots instead of requiring customers special-ordering them. The range is in the fast charge network, no need for ever increasing "fuel tanks" with batteries that cost so much more just to get more range, yet noticeably longer charge periods. Stopping for 20 minutes every 2 hours for a fast charge on longer trips makes EV's workable, the lower battery pack size makes them affordable.
Hi Bjørn, this is not so bad for a non Tesla. I Like the Ioniq :-) I made, up to now, two charging-test-videos with our Model X 100D. One at 25°C and one at 0°C. At 0°C you can charge faster because the battery-cooling doesn't need so much energy while charging. You know, that the best speed/charging ratio is, when you drive 140-150km/h and charge from 5-50%? Best regards Basti
Thank you Bjorn! I own a Hyundai Ioniq EV in the Netherlands at 19 years old :). I love your video's, there will be build several 175 kW chargers in the Netherlands soon, waiting for that!
Likely to get the max rated speed you need to have the battery at a decent temperature, all lithium ion batteries charge slowly when cold. I would say starting at under 5% with warm batteries and a decent charger you will see the rated maximum. This was a good real-world test, but not a good test of the limits.
Hi Bjorn ! Thanks for this interesting video. I'm a Nissan Leaf 30Kw owner and I'm concern about battery temperature when fast charging. Like shown on your review, the Leaf battery overheat easily with many fast charge during a day. Could you include this data when you test other EV ? This could be interesting. I thing some app like Torque Pro can reveal this. Thanks again for your really good work !
I'd like to know more about these 120KW fast chargers. All of the CHAdeMO fast chargers I've seen are 50KW. I thought only Tesla superchargers are 120KW - and now there are others? How fast do the CHAdeMO and CCS standards allow? I think it would make a great video!
I'm confused. Do they really officially claim it can draw a power of 100 kW? On the Norwegian Hyundai website I could only find this: "Da er ladetiden 30 min på en 50 kW-lader og 23 min på en 100 kW-lader. På sistnevnte ladepunkt vil IONIQ electric trekke minimum 70 kW." I know it says a minimum of 70 kW, maybe what they really mean is maximum?
Maybe the battery charges slower in cold weather, since they're power output is much less on cold days. At least for regular car batteries the output is much less.
Still way faster then competition with slightly bigger battery. This car is better for longer trips. Maybe a race with ampera-e and ioniq. Could be close!
On evtec's website for the Espresso & Charge it says: "bietet eine DC-Leistung von 20 kW bis 150 kW: aufrüstbar in 10kW Schritten, Standardausführung mit 60kW", i.e., it offers an output of up to 150 kW, standads version is 60 kW, with possible increments of 10 kW. So how do you know this is a 120 kW version?
That happens with all EVs, the last 20 % is always slower, think of the analogy of exactly filling a cup with water the first 80% can be fast but to get the last 20% without spilling always takes longer.
It happened at 73%. 1:33 That's when the batteries reach their maximum voltage and the charging enters a constant voltage mode. The current (amps) will then decrease as the spaces for lithium ions on the negative electrode fill up the remaining spaces that had been vacated in the discharge process. The watts delivered rose through the early charging because it was current limited and the voltage allowed to rise with the battery. Power = volts x amps. To restate, once the voltage is fixed and the current decreases, the power delivered necessarily decreases.
Hi, let's realistically imagine we charge from 10% to 80%. Meaning 70% or 28kWh, so 19,6 kWh. With 70kW delivered, we're done in 17 minutes. Now, if we really charged at the theoretical 100 kW, that would be 12 minutes. OK, we lose 5 minutes. Now, driving at around 110 kph, you measured in some other video a consumption around 17 kWh/100 km (not considering temperature variations, OK). The 19,6 kWh regained correspond to 115 km, so 63 mins driving time. In the end, the difference (between the theoretical 100kW and the practical 70 kW) is 5 mins on a total (driving+recharging) time of 63+17 = 80 minutes, so around 6%, increasing with speed or cold. But if you're not on the motorway, and drive like 90 or 80 kph, it's dropping to around 4%. Many thanks for your great videos, and greetings from the south of France, and its lower consumptions due to temperature :)
In my country (the Netherlands) that is only true for the slow-charge points on the street. At the fast charge network we have here (Fastned) you can stop the charging without the RFID tag, which suprised me a bit. Maybe this is because you could press the emergency stop button to stop the charging as well, so it would make no sense to require a RFID tag to stop charging.
True, but i think in one of his videos he shows/mentiones something about stopping the chraging process with the RFID tag. Could've also been something like stop the charging via a button but to unlock you have to use toe RFID tag. I can't recall.
this really drives home how crappy the s/x charging speeds are.....kinda sad 28kwh taking 65kw up to 75%.... youd expect s/x 75 to take some 175kwh up to 75% then which is about 2x what you get up to 55% or so. let alone 75 100D should be expected to take 232 to 75% model 3 barely does 230kw up to 25% let alone 75% even with v3 im guessing its the small pack size that they're allowing to get hotter or maybe it has rather generous cooling for how few cells are there.
heck even new v3 supercharging is below 2C by 44% SOC whereas this thing is at 2.3C up to 75%. I guess this car can sit at 2.3C the whole time whereas the tesla hit 3C between 10-20% soc just seems weird
Has Nissan already offered you to play aroung the Leaf 2.ZERO for a while? Charging from 20 to 100% on the Ioniq already looks good at 30something minutes. Too bad we cannot use your Testla link buying other cars than Tesla^^
Man you people like to waste your time. Read the car specs and then you'll understand why it wont go above 66. You can plug it on a 5000Kw super mega fast charger it won't change the car's specs...
Great video Bjørn. The Hyundai UK website reports that the Ioniq EV has a battery power of 98kW. From data I've captured using Torque the max charge rate is at 390V, to finally answer the question of max charging rate for the Ioniq somebody needs to plug into a rapid charger with a confirmed charging current of 98kW/390V ~ 250A.
15 to 80 percent in 20 min where speed drops after 75 is still good. That is like taking 20 min break after 2.5 hrs of driving. You need a break anyways
In my opinion, 40 KWh battery is enough for ioniq. More battery is always good but it comes with a price tag and lower efficiency. A larger battery with less cost is like 20 years down the lane when EV will be mainstream. What hyundai has done with ioniq is finding the sweet spot of aerodynamics, weight and efficiency to get the best deal.
Manufactures increase capacities little by little because of keeping the existing design as batteries density increase, for example they did with 30 KWh Nissan and 41 KWh Zoe. As for Hyundai 28 KWh, they have designed a range which is sufficient for 90 percent of public for 90 percent of the time. If this model does not appeal to you, go for its hybrid brother or even go a for Tesla Model S 85 or 100 KWh version.
As for me, i have never driven an Electric Car or seen anywhere in my country Pakistan but it makes a lot of sense of having it since we usually drive at 70 Kmh in cities and 100 Kmh in motorways.
2.3C is crazy.
100kW = 500V * 200A
120kW = 500V * 240A
150kW = 500V * 300A
350kW = 1000V * 350A
Of course, the voltage on the Ioniq is around 320-350 based on the SOC.
350V * 200A = 70kW
Did Hyundai reduce the amp on the newer model or the charging station outputting only 190A?
Yeah, its still a pretty great charging speed and way better than any other current non-Tesla EV can do. It will be very interesting to see what LG's new NCM811-based packs are capable of. They're expected to be used in the Kona EV and LEAF 60kWh.
So it needs a bigger battery to charge faster. Given 2.3C, you need a 45kWh battery to charge with 100kW. Hyundai doesn't claim it charges with 100kW, they just claim 0-80% in 23min on a 100kW charger. That translates to the 65kW peak you see.
Getting 200 kilometers of range in 20 minutes is impressive enough. That makes long road trips possible and even enjoyable in this vehicle.
The FIRST european 350kw charge-station has been installed: the 350kw ultra-e in Kleinostheim, Germany!! :)
I suggest in appreciation of your contribution to popularise the use of EVs, and for the sake of simplicity’s, the unit of charging should be changed to Bjorn, where every one “Bjorn” is equal to one “kWh” !
I agree, it looked like a current limit on the charger up to 75%, then the car’s BMS limited it. It was able to add 50% charge (15% to 65%) in 15 minutes. That’s pretty good. Quadruple the battery size and quadruple the charger power and you will be able to add some serious range in just 15 minutes.
This pretty much proves what Fisker eMotion claims 125 miles in 9 minutes with a fully charged range of 400 miles is all available right now.
Richard Petek, yes, while I hope we can get the next gen batteries soon, I think we in the next few years we will just rely on putting massive amount of batteries in the cars and finding a charger for it. But I hope ultimately they can achieve a 80% charge in 5 minutes so that we can have EV charging station set up like a gas station.
I can imagine a charging station with about 8 chargers and each charger has a status on how many minutes till the car will be finished charging to the user selected SOC (limited to 80%). Maybe they can have 100kw, 250kw, 500kw and 1000kw lanes, and each lane charges per minute based on the chargers capabilities, like $10/hr, $25/hr, $50/hr and $100/hr. This would be to keep a slow charging car like a 2018 Tesla from clogging up the 1000kw charger, and make it go use the 100 kw charger.
I think it will be a difficult and slow transition before we have a decent set of charging standards, and billing system. Too many EV drivers are all about me me me me and free free free free. But if you think about the business owner who has a gas station converted to a charging station, he can’t afford to let a car sit at the charger for an hour for 25¢ profit. And this thing about “well the outdated EV’s driver will go inside and buy overpriced snacks” is not valid because the a fast charging EV customer will also buy snacks, leave and make room for another customer to charge fast buy snacks and leave.
Richard Petek, the Fisker eMotion doesn’t use the much hyped graphene or solid state battery. Just good old fashion lithium ion, 140 kWh, LG Chem, with all specs clearly within reason. 400+ mile range with 140 kWh using 350watt-hours/mile, check. Able to add 125 miles range in 9 minutes? 30% charge in 9 minutes? As shown by the ionic, that well within current technology. Just need a 250 kw charger, also well within current technology, and some are already being installed.
Fisker should do a better job separating the old hype of 500 mile range and recharge in 1 minute. That’s not available with today’s battery technology, and the and even if it was, it would require a 9000 kw charger. Basically 5x Tesla semi mega chargers all plugged in at once. LOL. But we can make the charger if someone actually made a battery like that. But most likely they would tone it down to 5 minutes and only need 1 semi megacharger equivalent, just to reduce charging cable size, which would basically need to be liquid cooled.
Richard Petek, the Tesla semi megacharger well have an estimated 1600 kw (400 kw per battery, over each of the 4 sets of pins). In order to push even this small power, Tesla may stack each 200kwh battery to about 800v instead of the 400v, this would allow them to use available cable sizes.
When we try to get the same 1000 kw into a 100 kWh battery, it’s also going to need to be at least 800v, and the rest of the current would be done with liquid-cooled charge cables, including inside the car from the charge plug to the battery. They will need to do an overall analysis to determine optimal battery voltage that makes wire size (current) and separation/insulation (voltage) all fall into place.
The bigger problem is whoever charge current can exceed design discharge current overload protection (fuse wires on each cell), it adds complexity. Basically now on each cell you would need two fuse wires, each with a diode capable of handling the current. For example, with a 100 kWh pack you might want 5C fuse for discharge but will need a 12C fuse wire for charging. But if the car is a 1000 kw hypercar, it will work with a normal fuse wire that limits it to 12c.
I think if someone comes up with a battery that can charge in 5 minutes, we will find a way to get juice to it.
Richard Petek, the Tesla semi megacharger has 4 sets of charge pins (8 pins), basically it 4x 400 kw chargers combined. And we already have 400kw chargers available. That’s only 800v @ 500amp per charger. The model 3 EPA report shows it is rated at 525A, so I think it’s just off-the-shelf cable.
Really the only thing thy can’t do right now without degradation is 10c charging of the battery. Let’s assume that 10% power lost as heat, so we need to dissipate 10kw of heat for about 5 minutes.of course we can already build bigger better heat exchangers.
Porsche mission E already uses 800v DC system. So cables, plugs, insulation requirements are already figured out and in use.
If someone makes a good battery, we can charge it using existing technology. And we are no longer worried about efficiency, that’s the beauty of it all. If we can get free energy from the Sun, and pump that in a battery t get 300 miles range in 5 minutes, we don care if 20% get wasted, or ever 50%, all we care about is if it’s sustainable and if we can add more miles per minute than an ICE vehicle, safely and reliably, without excessive degradation.
Richard Petek, the author of that article was an idiot, combining Fisker’s old hype with what the eMotion actually uses. I think Alex covered that well that the solid state stuff is just on the Fisker drawing board, not in the eMotion. All the stuff about 500 miles, 1 minute charging, 2.5x is just hype. But what Fisker said about the eMotion is all currently available technology.
“Fisker also announced that it will display the new battery technology at the Consumer Electronics Show in January. It will be on display along with a close-to-production EMotion, which will be using more conventional lithium-ion batteries from LG Chem. That car has its own impressive claims with a range of more than 400 miles and the ability to regain around 125 miles of range in about 9 minutes. It will also retail for around $130,000, and the company is taking $2,000 reservations now. Fisker intends for it to go into production in 2019.”
This article explains about both batteries and why some got confused:
www.engadget.com/2017/11/14/fisker-has-filed-patents-for-solid-state-batteries/
As far as chargers, that will all get sorted out. And Tesla doesn’t have a 10 year new start on anything. The techs scattered all over the place, and Tesla doesn’t own proprietor rights to anything important. Tesla’s US charge plug will NOT be the standard. Someday it will just be the Betamax charger than nobody wants. But before then Tesla will get real and change to CCS2 or whichever one becomes standard.
All those supercharging stations and locations will be removed once people can charge at a real high speed charger. There will be no need for places to have “Tesla only” chargers unless it’s on Tesla property selling ludicrous coffee. Tesla’s superchargers were a necessary waste of money to help get over a hurdle.
Maybe try in the summer, cold battery could be limiting Amps.
I was wondering what will be the new chargers with higher voltages good for, when the car batteries have still under 400V. I got the answer in the last video from Transport evolved from CES 2018. Continental has made a voltage converter for EV s, that can charge the 400V battery with high power on a 800V charger.
High currents are a problem for the chargers, because its "long" cables need to be thick or actively cooled, converting the voltage down in the car right next to the battery is a clever idea and it seem to be pretty effective. Watch that episode.
It is amazing how much infrastructure you have. Where I live which has a population about 80% of Norway and is 166% the size of Norway we have 10 DCFC. And 2 are faster than 50 kW and 5 or so are 20-22 kW. We have a bunch more chargers coming but they are only 50 kW and $20/hour. Maybe 20 more. There are also 24 Tesla Superchargers in 4 locations. Most of the slow DCFC are free to use as are the 50+ AC chargers but those are 5.7-6.6 kW some go up to 15+ kW though. Most of those are free with premium EV only parking. We also have 1000's of level one plugs. 120V/10A.
Is the Ioniq really supposed to charge at 100 kW?
Or is it just called to be "compatible" with 100 kW chargers, but the actual charge rate is limited by the car?
Anyway: The Ioniq is charging at just over 2C: Battery of about 30 kWh, charge rate of 60..70 kW. Which gives a relative charge rate of about 2 kW per 1 kWh of battery capacity, hence 2C. This relative charge rate is the key factor. This 2C is really, really impressive. Tesla is just above 1C. Even if a 75 kWh Tesla charges at 120 kW it is "only" 1.6 C. (But I think the 75 kWh Teslas max out at about 100 kW which is 1.33 C.)
Jochen Kunz Thank you. This is the best comment here and i was looking for someone to point this out.
I also couldn't find any official statement by Hyundai that claims that it can charge at 100 kW. They only advertise with 23 minutes charging time at a 100 kW charger, which doesn't mean it goes up to 100 kW charging power.
As the charging is controlled by the BMS it will be compatible with 100++ chargers but never draw more than programmed by Hyundai. Interesting that there is so little technical information about this in the manual.
A tad off-topic, but I have the Ioniq and just love it! This is a well built car with tons of equipment for a very good price.
I think this demonstrates we do NOT need 60-80kWh packs for average commuter cars, which is the vast majority of the needs of the public. 40kWh battery packs that can fast charge very quickly are a better idea. I do think they should drop a ~45kWh battery pack in the Ioniq, reduce the cost and mass market it, and they'd have a big time seller if they manufactured them and put them on lots instead of requiring customers special-ordering them. The range is in the fast charge network, no need for ever increasing "fuel tanks" with batteries that cost so much more just to get more range, yet noticeably longer charge periods. Stopping for 20 minutes every 2 hours for a fast charge on longer trips makes EV's workable, the lower battery pack size makes them affordable.
I think it's limited because of max battery voltage AND max charging stall current. With more cells it should be able to reach 100 kW.
You would think but not always the case.
Nice vid! Hyundai* on the title btw :)
Awesome. That was still pretty fast though!
Bjørn what kind music is this? Nice review
Maybe you are confusing the maximum charge rate, the ioniq is rated for 70 kW maximum and the Kia Soul is rated for 100 kW.
Which is the fastest charger in Norway??
Hi Bjørn,
this is not so bad for a non Tesla. I Like the Ioniq :-)
I made, up to now, two charging-test-videos with our Model X 100D. One at 25°C and one at 0°C. At 0°C you can charge faster because the battery-cooling doesn't need so much energy while charging.
You know, that the best speed/charging ratio is, when you drive 140-150km/h and charge from 5-50%?
Best regards Basti
Thank you Bjorn! I own a Hyundai Ioniq EV in the Netherlands at 19 years old :). I love your video's, there will be build several 175 kW chargers in the Netherlands soon, waiting for that!
DroneShots fastned told me they plan on installing their first 150+ kW chargers ASAP :)
Likely to get the max rated speed you need to have the battery at a decent temperature, all lithium ion batteries charge slowly when cold. I would say starting at under 5% with warm batteries and a decent charger you will see the rated maximum.
This was a good real-world test, but not a good test of the limits.
Where do you look to see the Amperage of the station? Is there a rule of thumb?
Hvor er denne lader plassert. Vil teste på Ampera-e ?
Hi Bjorn ! Thanks for this interesting video. I'm a Nissan Leaf 30Kw owner and I'm concern about battery temperature when fast charging. Like shown on your review, the Leaf battery overheat easily with many fast charge during a day. Could you include this data when you test other EV ? This could be interesting. I thing some app like Torque Pro can reveal this. Thanks again for your really good work !
I've never seen a video of anyone charging an Ioniq at close to 100kW. Hopefully this will change soon...
I'd like to know more about these 120KW fast chargers. All of the CHAdeMO fast chargers I've seen are 50KW. I thought only Tesla superchargers are 120KW - and now there are others? How fast do the CHAdeMO and CCS standards allow? I think it would make a great video!
I'm confused. Do they really officially claim it can draw a power of 100 kW? On the Norwegian Hyundai website I could only find this: "Da er ladetiden 30 min på en 50 kW-lader og 23 min på en 100 kW-lader. På sistnevnte ladepunkt vil IONIQ electric trekke minimum 70 kW."
I know it says a minimum of 70 kW, maybe what they really mean is maximum?
Maybe the battery charges slower in cold weather, since they're power output is much less on cold days. At least for regular car batteries the output is much less.
Excellent music.and very useful video.
Do you have any experience charging ioniq in - 20 degree Celsius?
Cold battery.
Still way faster then competition with slightly bigger battery. This car is better for longer trips.
Maybe a race with ampera-e and ioniq. Could be close!
On evtec's website for the Espresso & Charge it says: "bietet eine DC-Leistung von 20 kW bis 150 kW: aufrüstbar in 10kW Schritten, Standardausführung mit 60kW", i.e., it offers an output of up to 150 kW, standads version is 60 kW, with possible increments of 10 kW. So how do you know this is a 120 kW version?
+Rollo Martins Grønn Kontakt, the provider, says so.
To be honest Bjørn, 70 kW is a very good charging rate and that is what you get on an average Supercharger charge, so I say not bad at all!!
But its the maximum he got, the average is 46kWh which isn't bad for the battery size but not comparable with the supercharger.
Great interesting video👏🏻
People in the u.s. With the Chevy Bolt need those "100" kW chargers even if the car is charging at 70 kW that's better than 45 kW .
Maybe your battery was a bit too cold? Did you try to charge it a second time on one of the two days?
+Benedikt HRO It was warm enough.
What does "Remaining 6' 0" indicate?
6' 0" = 6 minutes, 0 seconds.
Thanks Tony... I was reading it as 6 FT 0 IN.
Why didi the powerdroped to 20kwh after battery charged at 80%?
That happens with all EVs, the last 20 % is always slower, think of the analogy of exactly filling a cup with water the first 80% can be fast but to get the last 20% without spilling always takes longer.
+ElGuapo kW
It happened at 73%. 1:33 That's when the batteries reach their maximum voltage and the charging enters a constant voltage mode. The current (amps) will then decrease as the spaces for lithium ions on the negative electrode fill up the remaining spaces that had been vacated in the discharge process. The watts delivered rose through the early charging because it was current limited and the voltage allowed to rise with the battery. Power = volts x amps. To restate, once the voltage is fixed and the current decreases, the power delivered necessarily decreases.
Hmmm... So, those CCS _'fast chargers'_ are less capable than the Urban Superchargers that Tesla offers that have been tested at ~73 kWh.
+redxsage kW
What does this " *Remaining: 5"3'* " mean?!
Rasalas 5' would be five minutes " is seconds
Hi,
let's realistically imagine we charge from 10% to 80%. Meaning 70% or 28kWh, so 19,6 kWh.
With 70kW delivered, we're done in 17 minutes. Now, if we really charged at the theoretical 100 kW, that would be 12 minutes. OK, we lose 5 minutes.
Now, driving at around 110 kph, you measured in some other video a consumption around 17 kWh/100 km (not considering temperature variations, OK). The 19,6 kWh regained correspond to 115 km, so 63 mins driving time.
In the end, the difference (between the theoretical 100kW and the practical 70 kW) is 5 mins on a total (driving+recharging) time of 63+17 = 80 minutes, so around 6%, increasing with speed or cold. But if you're not on the motorway, and drive like 90 or 80 kph, it's dropping to around 4%.
Many thanks for your great videos, and greetings from the south of France, and its lower consumptions due to temperature :)
ON these public chargers, can anyone just end the charging or do you have to use the same RFID to get that option?
AFAIK you can only stop charging (and unlock the plug) with the same RFID tag you used to start the charging process. Someone correct me if i'm wrong.
In my country (the Netherlands) that is only true for the slow-charge points on the street. At the fast charge network we have here (Fastned) you can stop the charging without the RFID tag, which suprised me a bit. Maybe this is because you could press the emergency stop button to stop the charging as well, so it would make no sense to require a RFID tag to stop charging.
True, but i think in one of his videos he shows/mentiones something about stopping the chraging process with the RFID tag. Could've also been something like stop the charging via a button but to unlock you have to use toe RFID tag. I can't recall.
You Can stop Charge useing Emg. Stop than Charge your car
this really drives home how crappy the s/x charging speeds are.....kinda sad
28kwh taking 65kw up to 75%....
youd expect s/x 75 to take some 175kwh up to 75% then which is about 2x what you get up to 55% or so. let alone 75
100D should be expected to take 232 to 75%
model 3 barely does 230kw up to 25% let alone 75% even with v3
im guessing its the small pack size that they're allowing to get hotter or maybe it has rather generous cooling for how few cells are there.
heck even new v3 supercharging is below 2C by 44% SOC whereas this thing is at 2.3C up to 75%.
I guess this car can sit at 2.3C the whole time whereas the tesla hit 3C between 10-20% soc
just seems weird
Also Kia Soul EV have on paper 100kw DC chademo on board charger :p
+Blaz Hrovat That would make the car 300 kg heavier. I don't think so ;)
Bjørn Nyland the kia soul EV have 100kw on board dc charger! Look in specification of official kia dealer and you will see :p
insideevs.com/kia-installs-first-100-kw-chademo-dc-fast-chargers-europe/
Has Nissan already offered you to play aroung the Leaf 2.ZERO for a while?
Charging from 20 to 100% on the Ioniq already looks good at 30something minutes.
Too bad we cannot use your Testla link buying other cars than Tesla^^
This is a subject for #AvE :-)
Man you people like to waste your time. Read the car specs and then you'll understand why it wont go above 66. You can plug it on a 5000Kw super mega fast charger it won't change the car's specs...
+Celeste Celeste It goes to at least 70 kW. And Hyundai people claims they have seen 85 kW.
Just tried charging Ioniq on a CCS 150 kW charger , see ruclips.net/video/XIe7SNyLAdQ/видео.html for the result
Thanks. Seems like 70 kW is max.
Hyundai*
I think more than 70kW is not possible with the current Ioniq, maybe with a a bigger Accu in the future. ;)
+MrTechfreak95 Watch the video. I explain why.
The accu does not mean anything. Then inside resistent in the celles count. and im sure they are aple to charge faster