Fantastic 👍👌👌, as a person who has successfully built a working RAM pump, I can appreciate this content ever more better, thanks a lot, keep them coming 🙏
We used a cast iron foot valve that was on a 4" supply pipe, from the creek to the settlement pond where the ram pup was located, with 11 ft of drop over 1/4" mile. The settlement pond caught the check valve discharge and this flowed down hill to a catfish pond. The ram pump lifted water to a cattle watering system parallel and 1/2 mile away through more 4" pipe. After the check relief valve there was a 12" diameter and ten foot tall open ended stand pipe instead of a pressure vesicle, and i the pipe was clogged or turned off at the watering system, the stand pipe overflowed into the catch pond that still had a place to run off into the lower pond. This is how water was transferred to the steam engine during the logging days, and we used it to just maintain the ponds and get water to the animals.
Good idea with a sniffer valve. I drilled a 1mm hole under my check valve, but it didn't work. Have looked at your setup and have together with a friend changed the sniffer valve a bit, as my grease nipple is made of hardened metal. We removed the bushing at the bottom and spring. Then a small steel tube with an inner diameter smaller than the ball was inserted was inserted. The ball now has a few mm clearance and can sniff freely. Will be tested in Greenland in August.
Of all the explanations I have seen on RUclips, even from some really good channels, this is the first explanation that’s almost complete about the operation of the pump
Another way to improve the efficiency of the valve is add one or more small magnets onto the valve stem. This increase the duration the valve stays open and increase the amount of water pumped. If your source water is not enough, you can remove the magnets again
these pumps are used to move water up hills without any kind of added power. one could pump water up to the top of a water tower, and then use that water whenever you needed it. for turbine, or just general use. these sorts of pumps can also be scaled up very large. its just a matter of water volume and speed, given the right build, you could pump an entire lake up a mountian, then use water ram back down to power generators and to a lower lake, all the while the pumps need no energy, they pump water back up to the upper lake to be used again in generating power. several of them exist today in the united states, running clean energy power systems.
@@JoeMalovich that is because u have the spring up the hill (I have seen yours videos). Do you use that flow of water only for hydroelectric? Do you drink that water?
A Delrin bushing for the brass valve shaft, bored slightly oversized to allow for free fall of said shaft to open position. Would the action of the snifter valve be a cavitation effect of the water flowing past it?
I have ordered some LM8UU polymer bearings and 8mm stainless rod for inclusion in a 3dprinted valve design I've been modeling. I've been thinking since nobody makes proper small ram pump valves, I could. I'd do brass bodies of my own design cast and machined in China, assembled by myself.
I didn't have any to play with, and I wasn't sure they are "free" enough. Do you see how quickly the tiny ball was moving? The core of a Schrader valve is much heavier and slower.
@@JoeMalovich I see what your getting at since the vacuum that the piston pump produces is much greater than a ram pump .. good improvise on the grease fitting.. cheers
Hey . Would really like to see a video of you testing the head to lift ratio of your pump with these alterations to see if it's better than the average 1 to 7 ratio of the pumps were used to . Would also like to know whether more pressure in the air pressure chamber results in higher output (if you were able to pump more air In manually )
Great work! Can you setup multiple air cylinders in parallel for continuous flow? I'm guessing synchronization would be a challenge but is it even theoretically possible?
I think one very large air tank would do it. You just don't want the sudden addition of a volume of water to change the pressure of the tank. A big tank would reduce the effect. A long springy pipe might do it too, like 200 feet of garden hose maybe?
Hi, nice setup ! saw an other video the other day (forgot where) where someone just bore a tiny hole in the T fitting instead of the snifter valve., it seemed to work too. I have a water spring I d like to use to pump water uphill, the flow is good (maybe around 50 l/mn) but the head is low only 1 to 2m max. I d like to pump water 25m up. I was thinking of doing a "twin pump" setup, a first ram pump pumps the spring water up to 7 to a tank and from that tank 7m high I install a second ram pump that could pump up to 49m in theory. juts "wasting" lots of the water in the process. Still in the planning phase, I d like to maximise the flow of the 1st pump to have enough water to feed the 2nd. Trying to find out if a 1 1/2 or 2inch pump might work with my water flow / low head... Haven't found yet how to do the math before I spend $$$ on a 2inch setup.
The tiny hole is simple and works just fine but you lose efficiency and pumping ratio with it. I'm working on a 2" pump right now that might be able to do what you want in a single stage. How much are you finding 2" ram pumps for? I'm working on pricing and testing it now. Also you aren't wasting water, you are harnessing roughly 60% of the potential energy it has to pump a little water higher. Here's a picture, it will have a custom waste valve I'm fabricating. www.joemalovich.com/2022/03/05/2-ram-pump/
@@JoeMalovich Can't find any ready made ram pump where I live (indonesia) but I can find all the fittings and have many choices of valves online so not really an issue, found super cheap 2inch full pvc swing valve, don't know if they would work VS a metal one though... ruclips.net/video/3AsXlVB-m2s/видео.html I thought the head to lift ratio was generally x7 ? need to pump +25m higher than the water source with only 1 to 2m fall. So not sure 25m height can be achieved (x12 to x25) in a single stage hence my thought of doing the 2 stages.
@@louloukiI suspect that that check valve is only meant for low pressure drain/waste/vent use. For the pressures you want metal is the only way to go. 1:7 is common for the brass swing check valves commonly seen in these pumps because the valve triggers prematurely. You need a way to keep the waste valve open up to maybe 95% of the steady state flow of the drive pipe/valve system, only letting the valve slam shut at that 95% flow rate for peak pressure.
I enjoy watching your videos, but I feel that I should point out that you can't to any meaningful degree compress water. The reason that there is a low pressure generated at the snifter valve/waste valve is the same reason that the pump works at all - inertia/momentum. When the hammer occurs when the waste valve snaps closed, the mass of high pressure water within the pump body pushes through the delivery valve into the reservoir/delivery pipe - however this now has momentum itself, and briefly continues to rush through the delivery valve, leaving a low pressure behind it when the delivery valve closes abruptly. This is why the waste valve opens sharply - it's actively being sucked open to begin the cycle again. A snifter valve simultaneously draws air for the same reason.
what if you put a spring on the brass valve so on the way up it would push against it, return would be faster so that might become an issue or the water will be enough to slow it down. Just an idea, I have exactly 0 knowledge about these things.
@@JoeMalovich ... so for optimized flow into a given hight, there would be one perfect frequency - correct? This asks for a super nerdy "MPPT"- kind of optimization. I see micro-controllers. solenoids..etc ;-)
@Joe Malovich The last post wasn't meant to be "snarkie." Would be concerned about the pressure and sun degradation of the plastic over time. I like the idea of the pop bottle so you can see the air chamber. How did you make the transition from the bottle thread to pipe thread? Also could you add/adapt a larger diameter swing valve than your pipe diameter inplace of the foot valve, or is there not enough water force/volume to operate the larger swing valve? Always looking for that "better idea".
@@duaneroepke8840 pop bottles are free and easy to replace if they do get UV damaged, you can even get different sizes of course. I 3d printed an adapter from NPT to whatever thread bottles use nowadays. It took a few tries, layer separation is an issue with bottle threads because the sealing force is axial. As for the different valves, you can certainly get the same performance out of a swing check valve by varying the size, angle, or material. Stainless valves of the same size are heavier and trigger at a higher water velocity. A sliding valve is easier to adjust over a larger range compared to switching out valves, as long as it's large enough to accommodate the peak flow you intend to use.
You need the valve to be free flowing and suddenly cut off to produce the pressure spike once the velocity is high enough. There's never any fluid going 'forward' through this valve (apart from a bit of air when the pressure wave has departed, allowing the valve to re-open), so all you're producing is a restriction to the free fall of water.
I tried Schrader valves too. It's damn near impossible to remove the springs. I have had mild success with vacuum relief/prevention valves but I haven't had much time to properly test and share my findings.
Fantastic 👍👌👌, as a person who has successfully built a working RAM pump, I can appreciate this content ever more better, thanks a lot, keep them coming 🙏
I really like the snifter idea.
Idea: put a shut-off valve between your pressure guage to keep it from wearing out. Use it for testing only.
We used a cast iron foot valve that was on a 4" supply pipe, from the creek to the settlement pond where the ram pup was located, with 11 ft of drop over 1/4" mile. The settlement pond caught the check valve discharge and this flowed down hill to a catfish pond. The ram pump lifted water to a cattle watering system parallel and 1/2 mile away through more 4" pipe. After the check relief valve there was a 12" diameter and ten foot tall open ended stand pipe instead of a pressure vesicle, and i the pipe was clogged or turned off at the watering system, the stand pipe overflowed into the catch pond that still had a place to run off into the lower pond. This is how water was transferred to the steam engine during the logging days, and we used it to just maintain the ponds and get water to the animals.
Good idea with a sniffer valve. I drilled a 1mm hole under my check valve, but it didn't work. Have looked at your setup and have together with a friend changed the sniffer valve a bit, as my grease nipple is made of hardened metal. We removed the bushing at the bottom and spring. Then a small steel tube with an inner diameter smaller than the ball was inserted was inserted. The ball now has a few mm clearance and can sniff freely. Will be tested in Greenland in August.
Of all the explanations I have seen on RUclips, even from some really good channels, this is the first explanation that’s almost complete about the operation of the pump
Awesome. I am a land to home FAN! Your content is great. I wish I could buy a snifter valve like that. My tank keeps getting waterlogged.
I made mine in about an hour, the hardest part was drilling the hole for the screw. For some reason it's really hard metal.
Nice creative mods Joe.Very impressive
The bubbler is clever.
If you can find a valve made of bronze, that is a lot more wear resistant and often used as bushing material
Nylon cutting board to make a bushing....works great
Love the snifter valve idea. Thanks Joe!
Another way to improve the efficiency of the valve is add one or more small magnets onto the valve stem. This increase the duration the valve stays open and increase the amount of water pumped. If your source water is not enough, you can remove the magnets again
Just by watching this it inspired me to do the same! Thanks man..
fascinating! now could you use that water for something? maybe a pump to push the water back up the hill a short way to a supply back to the system?
I could. This is more of an experimentation setup though. I don't need the water this produces for anything.
these pumps are used to move water up hills without any kind of added power. one could pump water up to the top of a water tower, and then use that water whenever you needed it. for turbine, or just general use. these sorts of pumps can also be scaled up very large. its just a matter of water volume and speed, given the right build, you could pump an entire lake up a mountian, then use water ram back down to power generators and to a lower lake, all the while the pumps need no energy, they pump water back up to the upper lake to be used again in generating power. several of them exist today in the united states, running clean energy power systems.
@@JoeMalovich that is because u have the spring up the hill (I have seen yours videos). Do you use that flow of water only for hydroelectric? Do you drink that water?
Try UHMW (ultra high molecular weight plastic) for a bushing.
Nice application.. Try a ceramic washer/bushing from a sink faucet.. i would recommend stainless over brass too.
we had a customer inquire about pumping water ... sending them here :)
Land To House is an excellent resource too.
A Delrin bushing for the brass valve shaft, bored slightly oversized to allow for free fall of said shaft to open position.
Would the action of the snifter valve be a cavitation effect of the water flowing past it?
I have ordered some LM8UU polymer bearings and 8mm stainless rod for inclusion in a 3dprinted valve design I've been modeling. I've been thinking since nobody makes proper small ram pump valves, I could. I'd do brass bodies of my own design cast and machined in China, assembled by myself.
@@JoeMalovich I'd buy one 3/4" and possibly a 1 1/4" from you...
A Schrader valve will do the same .. thats why there's 1 on the duro piston pumps
I didn't have any to play with, and I wasn't sure they are "free" enough. Do you see how quickly the tiny ball was moving? The core of a Schrader valve is much heavier and slower.
@@JoeMalovich I see what your getting at since the vacuum that the piston pump produces is much greater than a ram pump .. good improvise on the grease fitting.. cheers
Pegged means something different these days on some sites.
very clever!
Hey .
Would really like to see a video of you testing the head to lift ratio of your pump with these alterations to see if it's better than the average 1 to 7 ratio of the pumps were used to .
Would also like to know whether more pressure in the air pressure chamber results in higher output (if you were able to pump more air In manually )
Great work! Can you setup multiple air cylinders in parallel for continuous flow?
I'm guessing synchronization would be a challenge but is it even theoretically possible?
I think one very large air tank would do it. You just don't want the sudden addition of a volume of water to change the pressure of the tank. A big tank would reduce the effect.
A long springy pipe might do it too, like 200 feet of garden hose maybe?
hay, that snifter was a great idea...
What stops the snifter valve from drawing in too much air? Would the buffer tank eventually "overfill" with air at all?
It did eventually fill with air, and it will start pumping air out with the water. Not detrimental I think.
Hi, nice setup ! saw an other video the other day (forgot where) where someone just bore a tiny hole in the T fitting instead of the snifter valve., it seemed to work too.
I have a water spring I d like to use to pump water uphill, the flow is good (maybe around 50 l/mn) but the head is low only 1 to 2m max. I d like to pump water 25m up. I was thinking of doing a "twin pump" setup, a first ram pump pumps the spring water up to 7 to a tank and from that tank 7m high I install a second ram pump that could pump up to 49m in theory. juts "wasting" lots of the water in the process. Still in the planning phase, I d like to maximise the flow of the 1st pump to have enough water to feed the 2nd. Trying to find out if a 1 1/2 or 2inch pump might work with my water flow / low head... Haven't found yet how to do the math before I spend $$$ on a 2inch setup.
The tiny hole is simple and works just fine but you lose efficiency and pumping ratio with it.
I'm working on a 2" pump right now that might be able to do what you want in a single stage. How much are you finding 2" ram pumps for? I'm working on pricing and testing it now.
Also you aren't wasting water, you are harnessing roughly 60% of the potential energy it has to pump a little water higher.
Here's a picture, it will have a custom waste valve I'm fabricating. www.joemalovich.com/2022/03/05/2-ram-pump/
@@JoeMalovich Can't find any ready made ram pump where I live (indonesia) but I can find all the fittings and have many choices of valves online so not really an issue, found super cheap 2inch full pvc swing valve, don't know if they would work VS a metal one though... ruclips.net/video/3AsXlVB-m2s/видео.html
I thought the head to lift ratio was generally x7 ? need to pump +25m higher than the water source with only 1 to 2m fall. So not sure 25m height can be achieved (x12 to x25) in a single stage hence my thought of doing the 2 stages.
@@louloukiI suspect that that check valve is only meant for low pressure drain/waste/vent use. For the pressures you want metal is the only way to go.
1:7 is common for the brass swing check valves commonly seen in these pumps because the valve triggers prematurely. You need a way to keep the waste valve open up to maybe 95% of the steady state flow of the drive pipe/valve system, only letting the valve slam shut at that 95% flow rate for peak pressure.
Great video
Very nice
hi Joe, perhaps you could evaluate the use of that water for the second floor toilet flush?
Too hard to separate out that line in my house, and there are freezing concerns in the winter.
I enjoy watching your videos, but I feel that I should point out that you can't to any meaningful degree compress water. The reason that there is a low pressure generated at the snifter valve/waste valve is the same reason that the pump works at all - inertia/momentum. When the hammer occurs when the waste valve snaps closed, the mass of high pressure water within the pump body pushes through the delivery valve into the reservoir/delivery pipe - however this now has momentum itself, and briefly continues to rush through the delivery valve, leaving a low pressure behind it when the delivery valve closes abruptly. This is why the waste valve opens sharply - it's actively being sucked open to begin the cycle again. A snifter valve simultaneously draws air for the same reason.
Correct on all points.
Excellent 👌
A pumppy water hammer arrester.
what if you put a spring on the brass valve so on the way up it would push against it, return would be faster so that might become an issue or the water will be enough to slow it down. Just an idea, I have exactly 0 knowledge about these things.
some ram pumps do use springs to return the valve instead of weights.
Nice ideas
Plastic straw for the foot valve.
Hello thanks for sharing your work.
How long / tall can the pipe to the check valve be?
You want the waste valve as low as you can for better head pressure... I think
what happend to the other pump you was working on with the air bags ?
Still working on it
Parabéns pelo trabalho amigo.
If you ajust the frequency of open/close of check valve, does it rise the head ?
yes, if it closes at peak flow you will get peak head.
@@JoeMalovich ... so for optimized flow into a given hight, there would be one perfect frequency - correct? This asks for a super nerdy "MPPT"- kind of optimization.
I see micro-controllers. solenoids..etc ;-)
Thanks Joe... Yes i get it kind of MPPT yeh smart exmple
Please explain why the check valve is not opened at the top. Was it you.already have a check.valve ?
Say again? I don't get the question.
I'm surprised you still have a "pop bottle" still attached to your setup when you have pegged the guage.
Dude pop bottles can withstand a bunch of pressure.
@Joe Malovich
The last post wasn't meant to be "snarkie." Would be concerned about the pressure and sun degradation of the plastic over time. I like the idea of the pop bottle so you can see the air chamber. How did you make the transition from the bottle thread to pipe thread? Also could you add/adapt a larger diameter swing valve than your pipe diameter inplace of the foot valve, or is there not enough water force/volume to operate the larger swing valve?
Always looking for that "better idea".
@@duaneroepke8840 pop bottles are free and easy to replace if they do get UV damaged, you can even get different sizes of course.
I 3d printed an adapter from NPT to whatever thread bottles use nowadays. It took a few tries, layer separation is an issue with bottle threads because the sealing force is axial.
As for the different valves, you can certainly get the same performance out of a swing check valve by varying the size, angle, or material. Stainless valves of the same size are heavier and trigger at a higher water velocity. A sliding valve is easier to adjust over a larger range compared to switching out valves, as long as it's large enough to accommodate the peak flow you intend to use.
is that momentary lapse of water, as the the plunger drops back down, due to cavitation?
No, more like a wave, of pressure
do you think it could still be measured at the intake or would it run itself to death before there due to losses?
pretty cool animation of what is going on with the wave of pressure going up the pipe
ruclips.net/video/8-ro8npzvGo/видео.html
Could you provide a link to a source for the foot valves? I have a 3/4" ram I'd like to experiment with.
I bought the one I have from lowes, in the well pump area.
The market needs a custom made waste valve for these PVC type ram pumps
Yes, but I don't think PVC would last. Brass or Stainless Steel would be required.
@@JoeMalovich yes I meant for these style of DIY ram pumps.
how to modify the foot valve?
Would a Tesla valve work for the upwords facing check valve? This works without moving parts.
You need the valve to be free flowing and suddenly cut off to produce the pressure spike once the velocity is high enough. There's never any fluid going 'forward' through this valve (apart from a bit of air when the pressure wave has departed, allowing the valve to re-open), so all you're producing is a restriction to the free fall of water.
I Tesla valve might work great for the Snifter Valve since it's air in the easy way and water out the hard way.
@@JoeMalovich Actually that is a great idea @Max. I didn't think about that. It's one less moving part, meaning it doesn't add to the complexity much.
A quick Google search suggests another meaning for being "pegged"
how did you remove the spring from the grease fitting???
You can drill out the backside and use a pick to extract the spring.
@@JoeMalovich I wonder if a schrader valve would also work, Thanks.
I tried Schrader valves too. It's damn near impossible to remove the springs. I have had mild success with vacuum relief/prevention valves but I haven't had much time to properly test and share my findings.
Water is not a compressible material, the sniffer reduces pressure, its a waste of time,
I bet you read this comment.
You want a cookie?
@@JoeMalovich sure why not?