Gorgeous result. I can't believe it was less than 4 hours!! It's so true that understanding light is the key to leveling up your painting skills, whether that's with minis or with other art. Thanks again for showing off one of our minis and doing an amazing job (as always).
I think this is one of my favorite paint jobs of yours! (Please put it in the display case at the Source so I can see it in person ;) ) It really seems to come through when you're enjoying yourself while painting in the final outcome.
I really love that you mentioned taking a break from the grimdark aesthetic - it's fine but sometimes you gotta take a walk on the bright side. Love this mini and the lighting it has. Your channel and Vince's are two of my faves - always so much to learn. Thanks for being a great teacher and making the awesome content you do.
I attempted this style on three same model. I failed at it, but I wanted to point out that this video inspired me to be excited to try it. Not only that, but also found my own color scheme. Great share!
Very eye-catching style, reminds me of your older video on mimicing Craftworld Studio. Incorporating colors and tones into light is definitely something I want to improve at, so hopefully this can serve as a guide/inspiration!
This is one of my favourite videos on mini painting and I’ve watched a ton! Love the emphasis on the guiding principle of light on the object and having fun. Thanks for making this one man!
I love that you keep refining this style. Loved it on the space dwarves, loved it on bun-arai, will continue to love watching it the next time it comes up.
Love this as I started a model with a lantern that I had to stop as I wasn’t sure what or how to proceed after an initial drybrushing the light source shine area.
the craziest part of this video is the turnaround at the end. i've been sitting here rewatching it, realizing how little painting you actually had to do on the back of the model, and how it doesn't take away from the end result at all. i imagine this mindset is even more powerful when you apply it to the sorts of super-detailed minis that many companies make nowadays; sure, you can paint every belt and pouch and buckle to full detail, or you can let them fall into the shadows, and put all the hard work where it really matters. great video, great model, great paintjob!
It's interesting we pulled the same quote from Vince (I was at class, too) ... this was a great video, a little more intimate style, less lecture more a shared experience. I appreciate your effort.
I would love to see more in this style. It's incredible. Or even a full tutorial set, you have single handedly gotten me back with a paintbrush in hand
I never have the feeling that i'm just wasting time on yt with your videos. Your warm and philosophical approach to miniature painting brought me into the hobby and often gives me new perspectives on how to see the world around me. Thank you for that!
Hey. I really rate and enjoy your content. Thanks a lot for the simplicity and calm with which you present and teach. You make skills I don’t have and approaches I’ve not tried feel very achievable and I feel braver to try. Cheers buddy!
I have to take my hat off to you as your style of painting is amazing, love watching your vid's. The more ideas and the more techniques to try. Hell going to have to start on all those 1970's/80's roleplaying figures I've had for yes well............. Especialy my very first figure a ranger from 1977.
The way you're explaining the process that is the impressionist style is wild. I'm not sure if it's intentional or not. But nearly every single thing you've mentioned is the exact school of thought of the impressionist movement. Its been interesting watching you develop more and more of your own mini style and how it mirrors the greats of the late 19th century Thus particular piece reminds me of Édouard Manet with the fur texture
This was an awesome video. I particularly appreciate going against the trend while also teaching a fundamental lesson in miniature painting. I've kept the Vince Venturella quote in mind in every painting session this week. It's challenging to change the way I view model painting but I feel this will make a major improvement. Thank you (and Vince)! PS: Ronin Bunny is so cool!
Great video; one of my favourites from your channel. I love this style an the rabbit looks great! The colour blends on the metallics reminds me of craftworld studio
Thanks for your video! If it wasn't because of the hype of leviathan, I woulnd't have found you! Looking forward trying this layering technique - Good luck reaching 200k :)
Beautiful! I need to use this when I finally paint my Moonstone minis. Moonstone's skirmishes happen at night, so this style would serve them perfectly. Also, Infinity's Bakunin Observance would rock in this style!
Man, you were a solid painter at the start of this channel. But watching your development and skills grow over time has been amazing to see. Gorgeous model!
I’ve gotten to the point where I watch other painting videos for fun, but I watch yours to learn and be inspired. Just primed up a 75mm orc and I have the colorful light and shadows ready to go.
Great video! I think that focusing on lighting helps encourage mini painters to "paint like an artist" rather than "paint by the numbers" that a lot of people never move past. Thinking about how light interacts with the shapes of the model develops a better artistic sense and intuition than just "chest = blue, shoulder = gold, etc etc".
That's extremely well put, and something I know I'm not the only one struggling with! I fall into that mindset time and time again and never feel really satisfied with how my models turn out because of it. I think because of how most of us are inducted into the wargame scene we just default on picking a color for each section/item on a mini and then roll through the same old GW tutorial standard methods to accomplish it instead of picturing the model actually existing somewhere and painting how that light affects them.
Wow! You're so much better after attending Vince's class! I'll have to sign up for one! (Ok, maybe a fun sarcastic tone doesn't carry that well in text. Fantastic video and it helped me a lot! I really needed to see this fun, casual way of painting boldly. Great job!)
I love this style of painting. Great step-by-step tutorial. And I absolutely LOVE the colours! Your models are always so colourful. This is something I am working on and your advice helps so much. Keep doing the great work Jon!
That came out awesome! I think that is my favorite paint job that I have seen you do to date. I love the style and will definitely be trying out those tips!
I think I kinda cheat my understanding of light by drybrushing my models to progressively higher values and then speedpaint/contrast/glaze over the top. That bunny is really dope tho! :)
Hi @Ninjon, Thanks for this inspiring video! I'm trying to replicate this style but have some trouble with the cloth steps in particular: Do you also mix in some of the light colour (magenta/blue) into the first base layer for the cloth parts? If not, why not and how do you decide when to add and when not to add the light colour to the initial base layer? The glazing step for the magenta cloth (@12:33) seems to be blue while the original light plan seems to be magenta, am I misjudging the colour or misunderstanding the glazing steps? Final question; is there a last glaze/wash (before the Casandora Yellow) over the final highlight for the fur? Thanks in advance for your help!
This gives me the same vibe as Murray from Tabletop Time's painterly approach. He uses several coloured primer spray cans to quickly undertone his models, combined with a looser paint job it gives a really nice styled result that is quick and forgiving compared to "the right way".
The break from painting grim dark really hit with me, because I have been getting my buddy into Infinity so I've been painting up those minis all week and it's just been nice. Finished a small squad for YuJing and working on PanO now.
This might look and sound simple to many of you, but I got completely lost halfway through. I simply don't have that level of envisioning the end look and how it correlates to the process it requires to get there.
Really enjoyed this video mate. Id love to see more non warhammer branded painting videos. I love warhammer and just got back into painting it but these bright saturated colour videos are nice change from the grim dark. need MOAR
That is amazing! I want try this with my next miniatures: 2 squads of Halo UNSC troops. One squad is 28mm the other is 1/72. It will be interesting to see what happens when I try to just "see how objects interact with light" on small scale stuff.
Really great video. I've recently started doing something like this because I felt my painting was too stark and not unified. Glazing over with some kind of unifying color really helped me to be more confident in my painting and I have to say I'm doing things quicker and better. I'd love for you to do a video about being almost all in on AKI paints. I'd love to try them but they're hard to find locally.
Damn it. I saw your title and I was looking to be outraged... Then I started dreaming about being a good painter like you and tried to learn something from your video. Thanks. ❤
I had to try this with one of the Panda Sorcerers from Arcane Minis. Not as good as yours, but it came out pretty well and it was so much fun just playing with the light rather than trying to keep everything perfect.
I like your videos because you don't use JUST Citadel paints, but any other brand that has the color that you want, and you don't name them but instead give the "color name" instead of the brand name, so anyone can try to replicate it without having exactly that same pot. Also, talking about the "cold" and "warmth" of the colors really help to understand the contrast required.
Aha! Light dawns on Cro-Magnon noggin in regards to underpainting! This is a wonderful video and it really gave me good ideas as to how I can improve in this realm. BTW, I ordered a couple of your paints from Monument Hobbies yesterday (the Red Gray and the Dark Ivory) since I liked Vince's Payne's Gray so much. Looking forward to trying them out!
I love the playful, experimental approach of this. While I don't have a wealth of mini experience at the moment, it makes me think of how some of my best digital art has come from just being playful and doodling then going down a rabbit hole with ideas without a lot of worry about the end result. Ironically, those are often some of my best pieces... probably because I was willing to deviate from the safe, known methods.
Love this style. Haven't felt bold enough to give it a go. Was about to pack up my printer to move but I might have to print one of these Cobra Mode models first, they're real nice.
I'd love to see you paint an army in that style! It really is good to take a break from painting Warhammer to paint in a different style. Great job Ninjon, I'm definitely gonna give this style a try it looked amazing.
Ok Jon, I would like to thank you for this video. I personally kinda dislike painting and prefer building things, unfortunately that leaves me with plenty of grey floating around. All that said I continuously find myself coming back to watch you vids because your content teaches new styles and approaches with some good snarc. You have helped me overcome "some" of my painting apprehension by showing easy and simple ways of painting and for that I humble thank you. And to add to the gravitas of this thanks I watched the vid on the TV and immediately scrambled to find something with a keyboard to reach out 😅. Please don't stop being you and continue making amazing content!
This is a great mini and I will definitely be getting the STL. Sadly I don't have a printer yet so I guess it will go in the list of things to print soon. I can't even find an Etsy seller in Australia who could print it for me so that's a shame.
Loved the video, Jon! - I would have liked to see the paint on the palette bc the consistencies you’re using are fairly specific, and having the visual really helps sometimes
I love how he turned out! Your content rules at reminding us we're supposed to be doing this to have fun, and what's more fun the greatest rabbit Ronin in comics? Uesagi Yojimbo rules!
Just a bit of pedantry we've heard time and again, but I needed to hear it once more: as fun as watching someone else paint, I'll never get better if I don't pick up the brush myself. Excellent vid as always Jon; I know you're a practiced artist, but your techniques aren't so mind-boggling that I can't follow along. Is painting a chore for you, though? They say when you make your hobby your job, you lose your passion for it; yet, you continue to demonstrate with such joy, I can't help but get infected by it. Thank you!
Love this style, the underpainting is amazing and it’s good for people without an airbrush! Great work my dude!!!
Yeah not having an Airbrush Kit, it is quite nice to see it done with just a brush.
Gorgeous result. I can't believe it was less than 4 hours!! It's so true that understanding light is the key to leveling up your painting skills, whether that's with minis or with other art. Thanks again for showing off one of our minis and doing an amazing job (as always).
Great video, and stunning model. Love the approach that isnt reliant on GWs latest release.
I think this is one of my favorite paint jobs of yours! (Please put it in the display case at the Source so I can see it in person ;) ) It really seems to come through when you're enjoying yourself while painting in the final outcome.
Gorgeous model, awesome skits and a good laugh, and genuine message! Love it
as an illustrator going into mini painting, its very funny how the same techniques and thoughts of painting wind up being reiterated across mediums
Thanks!
I really love that you mentioned taking a break from the grimdark aesthetic - it's fine but sometimes you gotta take a walk on the bright side. Love this mini and the lighting it has. Your channel and Vince's are two of my faves - always so much to learn. Thanks for being a great teacher and making the awesome content you do.
I attempted this style on three same model. I failed at it, but I wanted to point out that this video inspired me to be excited to try it. Not only that, but also found my own color scheme. Great share!
Very eye-catching style, reminds me of your older video on mimicing Craftworld Studio. Incorporating colors and tones into light is definitely something I want to improve at, so hopefully this can serve as a guide/inspiration!
your colorful style of painting inspires me and makes me paint in ways i would never think of by myself, thank you, your videos are wonderful
That’s such a kind comment, I truly appreciate it! ❤️
This is one of my favourite videos on mini painting and I’ve watched a ton! Love the emphasis on the guiding principle of light on the object and having fun. Thanks for making this one man!
I love that you keep refining this style. Loved it on the space dwarves, loved it on bun-arai, will continue to love watching it the next time it comes up.
Love this as I started a model with a lantern that I had to stop as I wasn’t sure what or how to proceed after an initial drybrushing the light source shine area.
the craziest part of this video is the turnaround at the end. i've been sitting here rewatching it, realizing how little painting you actually had to do on the back of the model, and how it doesn't take away from the end result at all. i imagine this mindset is even more powerful when you apply it to the sorts of super-detailed minis that many companies make nowadays; sure, you can paint every belt and pouch and buckle to full detail, or you can let them fall into the shadows, and put all the hard work where it really matters. great video, great model, great paintjob!
It's interesting we pulled the same quote from Vince (I was at class, too) ... this was a great video, a little more intimate style, less lecture more a shared experience. I appreciate your effort.
I would love to see more in this style. It's incredible. Or even a full tutorial set, you have single handedly gotten me back with a paintbrush in hand
Hear, hear!
I never have the feeling that i'm just wasting time on yt with your videos. Your warm and philosophical approach to miniature painting brought me into the hobby and often gives me new perspectives on how to see the world around me. Thank you for that!
Hey. I really rate and enjoy your content. Thanks a lot for the simplicity and calm with which you present and teach.
You make skills I don’t have and approaches I’ve not tried feel very achievable and I feel braver to try.
Cheers buddy!
I have to take my hat off to you as your style of painting is amazing, love watching your vid's. The more ideas and the more techniques to try. Hell going to have to start on all those 1970's/80's roleplaying figures I've had for yes well............. Especialy my very first figure a ranger from 1977.
I’ve got a mini on my desk right now holding a torch that I didn’t want to spend a ton of time on. I think I’ll give this method a shot on it!
The way you're explaining the process that is the impressionist style is wild. I'm not sure if it's intentional or not. But nearly every single thing you've mentioned is the exact school of thought of the impressionist movement.
Its been interesting watching you develop more and more of your own mini style and how it mirrors the greats of the late 19th century
Thus particular piece reminds me of Édouard Manet with the fur texture
My wife and I said the same thing while watching this last night!
This was an awesome video. I particularly appreciate going against the trend while also teaching a fundamental lesson in miniature painting. I've kept the Vince Venturella quote in mind in every painting session this week. It's challenging to change the way I view model painting but I feel this will make a major improvement. Thank you (and Vince)! PS: Ronin Bunny is so cool!
Great video; one of my favourites from your channel. I love this style an the rabbit looks great! The colour blends on the metallics reminds me of craftworld studio
I saw this mini recently and instantly wanted it! Thanks for the inspiration!
Thanks for your video! If it wasn't because of the hype of leviathan, I woulnd't have found you! Looking forward trying this layering technique - Good luck reaching 200k :)
This is probably your best mini painted yet. I love it, reminds me a lot of Craftworld Studio's style
yeah they have a very similar process of coloring, feels a more relaxed way of paiting with equal or even better end result
That's pretty cool. I'd love to see a few more examples in this style. Thanks Ninjon!
Thank you Jon. Most inspiring painting video so far of 2023. Thank you thank you!!!
Amazing paint job I am inspired to give it a go. Thanks so much.
i like this a lot
Childhood memory unlocked. Loved your content hope you've been doing well!
Beautiful! I need to use this when I finally paint my Moonstone minis. Moonstone's skirmishes happen at night, so this style would serve them perfectly. Also, Infinity's Bakunin Observance would rock in this style!
This was great! Can we please get more videos demonstrating and explaining this stye?
Love this style of painting. I have been getting into stuff like this recently and it's so much fun, particularly when using limited palettes
Man, you were a solid painter at the start of this channel. But watching your development and skills grow over time has been amazing to see. Gorgeous model!
I’ve gotten to the point where I watch other painting videos for fun, but I watch yours to learn and be inspired. Just primed up a 75mm orc and I have the colorful light and shadows ready to go.
Great video! I think that focusing on lighting helps encourage mini painters to "paint like an artist" rather than "paint by the numbers" that a lot of people never move past. Thinking about how light interacts with the shapes of the model develops a better artistic sense and intuition than just "chest = blue, shoulder = gold, etc etc".
That's extremely well put, and something I know I'm not the only one struggling with! I fall into that mindset time and time again and never feel really satisfied with how my models turn out because of it. I think because of how most of us are inducted into the wargame scene we just default on picking a color for each section/item on a mini and then roll through the same old GW tutorial standard methods to accomplish it instead of picturing the model actually existing somewhere and painting how that light affects them.
Wow! You're so much better after attending Vince's class! I'll have to sign up for one!
(Ok, maybe a fun sarcastic tone doesn't carry that well in text. Fantastic video and it helped me a lot! I really needed to see this fun, casual way of painting boldly. Great job!)
I love this style of painting. Great step-by-step tutorial. And I absolutely LOVE the colours! Your models are always so colourful. This is something I am working on and your advice helps so much. Keep doing the great work Jon!
Great work, keep them coming !! Loving the style here...
Dude this is badass killer job the undertones and the blue are insane
That came out awesome! I think that is my favorite paint job that I have seen you do to date. I love the style and will definitely be trying out those tips!
Please keep up the amazing work. Love the videos!
You bloody nailed it. Great work.
This is the same way I am developing my painting skills. Get the light right in the underpainting.
I love that your channel does not orbit around warhammer. A miniature painter, not a warhammer painter, I like that.
I think I kinda cheat my understanding of light by drybrushing my models to progressively higher values and then speedpaint/contrast/glaze over the top. That bunny is really dope tho! :)
love doing this. quick painted models and i dont get bored out of my mind. ill do more detail on more important models like HQ's tho
I'm in the same boat. I settled on this style a while ago because I like the results vs effort/time. Still willing to keep trying new things tho.
absolutely loved this video and the paint job man very informative and a nice change mate!!
Really awesome video, really love the approach and really excited to paint up a few models applying this technique
LOVE this style of painting! Thank you so much for sharing!!!
Absolutely love this dreamy color palette.
Such a cool tutorial.. Will try out that style on my next miniature.. Love your channel
This is the best video you've made I've watched it three times now and learned something new each time
That rabbit is absolutely amazing. Great work 💯👌
Hi @Ninjon, Thanks for this inspiring video! I'm trying to replicate this style but have some trouble with the cloth steps in particular:
Do you also mix in some of the light colour (magenta/blue) into the first base layer for the cloth parts? If not, why not and how do you decide when to add and when not to add the light colour to the initial base layer?
The glazing step for the magenta cloth (@12:33) seems to be blue while the original light plan seems to be magenta, am I misjudging the colour or misunderstanding the glazing steps?
Final question; is there a last glaze/wash (before the Casandora Yellow) over the final highlight for the fur?
Thanks in advance for your help!
Usagi is the best! Love the outcome. I’ll be trying this sometime soon! Great vid!
This video gave me for lack of a better term a “eureka” moment, I cannot wait to give this technique a go. Excellent video Jon!
This gives me the same vibe as Murray from Tabletop Time's painterly approach. He uses several coloured primer spray cans to quickly undertone his models, combined with a looser paint job it gives a really nice styled result that is quick and forgiving compared to "the right way".
The break from painting grim dark really hit with me, because I have been getting my buddy into Infinity so I've been painting up those minis all week and it's just been nice. Finished a small squad for YuJing and working on PanO now.
This is really a sweet way to paint. I would love to paint this bunny in a Black White and Grey.
This might look and sound simple to many of you, but I got completely lost halfway through. I simply don't have that level of envisioning the end look and how it correlates to the process it requires to get there.
Really enjoyed this video mate. Id love to see more non warhammer branded painting videos. I love warhammer and just got back into painting it but these bright saturated colour videos are nice change from the grim dark. need MOAR
Love it, but I immediately got lost in the first step… I don’t know how to do that. :(
That is amazing! I want try this with my next miniatures: 2 squads of Halo UNSC troops. One squad is 28mm the other is 1/72. It will be interesting to see what happens when I try to just "see how objects interact with light" on small scale stuff.
Weirdly enough, I could see this style of painting really working on the Leviathan Tyranid models.
Just had the exact same thought. The blue-magenta shift maybe up to a sandy midtone with dark purple patterns on the chitin
Really great video. I've recently started doing something like this because I felt my painting was too stark and not unified. Glazing over with some kind of unifying color really helped me to be more confident in my painting and I have to say I'm doing things quicker and better. I'd love for you to do a video about being almost all in on AKI paints. I'd love to try them but they're hard to find locally.
With such a paint skill It would be great to see your concepts of Gothic Armada fleet!
Damn it. I saw your title and I was looking to be outraged... Then I started dreaming about being a good painter like you and tried to learn something from your video. Thanks. ❤
I had to try this with one of the Panda Sorcerers from Arcane Minis. Not as good as yours, but it came out pretty well and it was so much fun just playing with the light rather than trying to keep everything perfect.
I loved this video! The mini is so clean and the technique is so cool and relevant. More like this please Jon!
Guys it's really literally so easy
*Puts in exuberant amounts of effort and motorical skill*
I like your videos because you don't use JUST Citadel paints, but any other brand that has the color that you want, and you don't name them but instead give the "color name" instead of the brand name, so anyone can try to replicate it without having exactly that same pot. Also, talking about the "cold" and "warmth" of the colors really help to understand the contrast required.
Aha! Light dawns on Cro-Magnon noggin in regards to underpainting! This is a wonderful video and it really gave me good ideas as to how I can improve in this realm. BTW, I ordered a couple of your paints from Monument Hobbies yesterday (the Red Gray and the Dark Ivory) since I liked Vince's Payne's Gray so much. Looking forward to trying them out!
That rabbit samurai is so cool and that style of painting is awesome! ill have to give it a try.
I love the playful, experimental approach of this. While I don't have a wealth of mini experience at the moment, it makes me think of how some of my best digital art has come from just being playful and doodling then going down a rabbit hole with ideas without a lot of worry about the end result. Ironically, those are often some of my best pieces... probably because I was willing to deviate from the safe, known methods.
You really are the only Painting RUclipsr where I dont like the painting but LOVE IT
Love this style. Haven't felt bold enough to give it a go. Was about to pack up my printer to move but I might have to print one of these Cobra Mode models first, they're real nice.
Beautiful mini! Great work! Awesome video. Bravo!
That's a fantastic looking bunny! Great tutorial, thank you!
Now I see the LIGHT !!!, thanks at you two ! Time to sly the grays
Woah this is one of the coolest models i have seen you paint so far.. TMNT Usagi? Freakn Awesome colors and pose. Thank you sir
I'd love to see you paint an army in that style! It really is good to take a break from painting Warhammer to paint in a different style. Great job Ninjon, I'm definitely gonna give this style a try it looked amazing.
Beautiful paint job Jon!
And what a great little model too
Ok Jon, I would like to thank you for this video. I personally kinda dislike painting and prefer building things, unfortunately that leaves me with plenty of grey floating around. All that said I continuously find myself coming back to watch you vids because your content teaches new styles and approaches with some good snarc. You have helped me overcome "some" of my painting apprehension by showing easy and simple ways of painting and for that I humble thank you. And to add to the gravitas of this thanks I watched the vid on the TV and immediately scrambled to find something with a keyboard to reach out 😅. Please don't stop being you and continue making amazing content!
What a kind comment, I really appreciate you reaching for that keyboard. Keep and it and you’ll find fun in painting your way!
Awesome video. Love the model and the style. I'll definitely be picking one up and trying it out myself. Thank you for the non-leviathan content!!
Ninjon 17th June: Im NOT painting Leviathan.
Ninjon 3rd June: I paint Leviathan Terminators
Neat timetravel trick
Does this painting style have a name? I would like to view more tutorials and videos of this style.
That is just brilliant and you make iy sound so easy that it is intimidating for me to try as counterintuitive as that sounds..
This is a great mini and I will definitely be getting the STL. Sadly I don't have a printer yet so I guess it will go in the list of things to print soon. I can't even find an Etsy seller in Australia who could print it for me so that's a shame.
Loved the video, Jon!
- I would have liked to see the paint on the palette bc the consistencies you’re using are fairly specific, and having the visual really helps sometimes
I love how he turned out! Your content rules at reminding us we're supposed to be doing this to have fun, and what's more fun the greatest rabbit Ronin in comics? Uesagi Yojimbo rules!
Beautiful paint job! Been subbed to Cobramode since your first video on them
Love this. Looks like fun, can't wait to try it
Just a bit of pedantry we've heard time and again, but I needed to hear it once more: as fun as watching someone else paint, I'll never get better if I don't pick up the brush myself.
Excellent vid as always Jon; I know you're a practiced artist, but your techniques aren't so mind-boggling that I can't follow along.
Is painting a chore for you, though? They say when you make your hobby your job, you lose your passion for it; yet, you continue to demonstrate with such joy, I can't help but get infected by it. Thank you!
This video was so informative, thank you so much for making this!! The more I see it in action Magenta has so many more uses than I assumed.
What a great technique something I’ve never seen showcased before excellent content. Great stuff fascinating.
Loved this. and the mini turned out great.
Interesting! Great style, looking fwd to trying it.
Absolutely stunning my man. Great job as always.
I'm keeping an eye out for your paint set to hit stores. That video you made really sold the idea.
I’ve been watching for about a year now and that is the coolest thing I’ve seen