The Edgiest Idiot Dies, Player RAGEQUITS || The Rowan Trilogy Part 3
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- Опубликовано: 25 сен 2020
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• The Rowan Trilogy
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Breaking news
Vinny just entered the hospital with serious pain on their back from carrying the entire game on his back.
Good one! Mango for you 🥭
@@CritCrab YAY!
The hero we deserve.
@@d.tsukuyomi1869 Welcome to 🥭Mango Gang 🥭
666th like
I am kinda sad that, when Rowan used 'detect evil', it didn't just show her alone in the town
sadly, at least for 5d, detect evil is more detect devil/demon rather than alignment. seems to be the case here too
That would be so funny 😆
Admittly if you were evil and used that spell, you would be annoyed at how you’re looking for that one person on top and then realize “oh wait that’s me”.
XD. She’d probably try to argue that it’s not true.
This is actually perfect haha
Vinny needs a damn medal, that dude was carrying the game.
Here's to vinny 🍻
when the NPC is all what you wish for......but you're also stuck with a bad partner instead of the whole personification of the npc as another player
@@CritCrab I'm now picturing Vinny as Kai from Lexx
@@CritCrab here’s to vinny 🍻
Vinny clapped a spider with one arm, the absolute goat.
Rowan: why does no one like me?
Also Rowan: *tried to stab someone over d&d*
It's like that Eric Andre meme format
@critcrab
WE'll
Be
Right
Back
Ahhhh yes. I remember my first 3.5 campaign too.
Hey, Rowan here. I never stabbed anyone irl and I quit the campaign because my abusive ex (Asher) was sending me threats and I didn't want to cause any drama but thanks for the vote of confidence. OP is a balding incel irl who's butthurt because I wouldn't sleep with him or join Qanon.
This is why women avoid nerd culture. Nothing like being painted up as a toxic psycho as revenge for not sleeping with someone to make a new player never want anything to do with the game or community again.
All i can see is Inigo Montoya looking at her. "You keep on calling yourself Chaotic Good. I do not think that word means what you think it means."
INCONCEIVABLE
"Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my character. Prepare to die"
My Chaotic-Good Warlock: Leave the gold, help the monk, grab the artifact and call retreat because your teammates are clearly overpowered, you oaf! And make a shield of your own body while you're at it!
Yes
Now if she'd been Chaotic Evil...
"I'm chaotic good"
So, what, your heart said to stab people with kindness today?
"Kindness" being the blade's name?
@@AngharadMac Dagger of friendship.
edit : lets see how many ppl know this dagger.
Good one, lol.
Florida man kills neighbor with knife named "kindness" after saying he would kill them with *kindness*
@@rhopalosera9772 fuck I wanted to say that lol
"hmm yes, this person doesn't accept the idea that its not my fault, stabby stabby."
Vinny: *N O S E Q U E L F O R Y O U*
Spider: *screams*
*In arlond voice*
Classic Vinny.
Damn he ain't gonna be in Rush Hour 3
"Imagine Rafiki but jacked." I lost it when that was said and I laughed so hard that I snorted!
Imagine that baboon as an absolute *unit.*
@@vidmanandrew09 Baboons are already complete units so this thought alone is terrifying lol! But now I really want to see it lol!
Yea that bit made me chuckle
@@vidmanandrew09 mandrel actually
You just know it's probably someone's fursona.
Stop singling me out!
Singles self out at every opportunity.
For realest
"I swear to Crab, you're trying to get me killed!"
*Proceeds to backflip on barrels, breaking neck.*
"MURDERERS!!!"
"From my point of view the rest of the party is evil!"
"Then you are lost!"
"Its over Rowan, the consequences are here"
"You underestimate my arrogance"
"Don't try it"
*Rowan rolls nat 1*
"You were chosen to play D&D! It was said that you would work with the party, not split from it. Cooperate with your comrades, not leave them to ruins!"
"I HATE YOU!"
@@huntern3071 😆👍 awesome
@@Just_an_Ace_on_the_Moon thanks I'm a very proud nerd
Hunter N This is the way
“I’m not CN.”
Me: “She’s been playing a CE character all this time?!”
“I’m CG.”
I died. I did NOT see that coming!!
I mean, she tried to stab someone out of nowhere. I don't think she knows what 'good' means. XD
yeah, I was expecting her to say Chaotic Evil as well
@@hermeticbear I was expecting chaotic good, though a small part of me hoped she had said lawful good. Because some people are totally that stupid. I've played with one
"Shaymin Gorilla."
Now I'm just picturing an albino gorilla with a flowering shrub covering its back.
*Oranguru intensifies*
*Rillaboom appears*
**Buff Bara Shaymin intensifies**
Gorilla Bulbasaur! I love it!
*beats chest*
Vinny: *gets arm ripped off*
Also Vinny: "Do you see me laughing spooder?!"
So, Rowen gets a lot of deserved hate, but can we acknowledge that the GM did a "beat this check or else you die instantly" more than 3 times here, even for the normal players who just got dragged along?
Definitely a fair point. It seems odd to me that the DM didn't do some DM Intervention(tm) to make it so the other players didn't pay the price for her wanton idiocy. She obviously didn't care what happened to them, so you aren't teaching her about consequences by doing it either. And even if you _were_ to do that, making it _seem_ like the PC was dead to everyone save the player (pass them a note or something after their genuine reaction has played-out), would get the point across to someone who would actually get the message.
Yeah, and at 18:28 he says he never told the other players how Rowan tried to stab him, after they walked in literally 30 secs after it happened, whilst Asher was there all the time and saw it happen? Because 'it never came up'? So no one asked 'what happened while I was taking a leak?' You walk in a room where two of your mates are wrestling while having a screaming match and just sit down and talk about football. Yeah right. I think this one is fake, just like most of critcrabs stories.
Alpha Legion Astartes you say that like it’s his fault. Critcrab just reads this stuff off reddit. He can’t help it if Reddit is full of Karmafarming lies
@@crocodilerock4662 Whereas I'm not saying it's his fault, Crit with his experience, should know which stories are a bunch of lies. People post shit on Reddit just to get attention. It's like posting videos just to get views. That one is his fault.
Maybe the DM just wanted it to end a new the the problem person would end up leaving then.
Rowan: "I'm chaotic good"
Me: "Wh-"
Rowan: "I act chaotic to serve my personal good!"
Rowan say her characters were LAWFUL GOOD, but she use it to be self righteous so nothing her characters do is wrong if she believe it is right.
That's called chaotic-netral, or chaotic evil: depending if you harm others.
@@agsilverradio2225 That's a funny way of saying chaotic stupid.
"Imagine Rafiki but jacked."
... not a mental image I thought I'd have today but alright
Lol
I'm so going to animate that someday... maybe for some dnd shorts with commentary from Critcrab, Zflocco, Critical Kunic and others.
Just gunna toss it out there at the beginning of the story. I can't fault Rowan for taking a long time on their first roll of a caster class. That shit is complicated for a new player. I'm sure there will be plenty of things I CAN fault them for, but that isn't one of them.
Personally I feel a lot of Rowan's problems were having a false understanding of the game and/or expectations for play. A lot of this seemed like video game behaviour, simply "playing the edgy character" and seeing what they can get away with in a world of pure imagination. The party was clearly not satisfied about how she differed from them, so in depth discussion or removal would've been the best option. That's somewhat on them for that. Although Rowan clearly projected, passed the blame and was a manipulative, victimizing cunt whenever confronted so there is that. ..Not to mention the whole resorting to trying to stab someone part. Rowan was clearly unstable and has HUGE issues that need to be ironed out or they'll find themselves in prison. But in terms of the gameplay? I think she's just misguided and in the wrong party.
Rowan girl: *Abandons party to get eaten/burned alive, whines when party doesn't defend her against Dire Gorilla for said abandonment, party still revives her after it **_expands dong_** on her, immediately after gets the party into aggro with a devil several levels above them, traps them in a pocket dimension and gets half of them killed*
Rowan: "Why are you all singling me out?"
I lol'd at "expand dong"
*"Why am I still getting hate?"*
Monk:"hey man, can you help me, I'm getting jailed by a spider the size of a small bear"
9 y/o:"haha no Lols"
I'm all for player agency, but this is ridiculous. While Rowan is a pos, the DM allowed these things to happen. 'No' is a perfectly acceptable word.
I know, right. Like I know he did them a solid by not having the lesser devil immediately obliterate them. but why have an insta-death bridge if you fail your check then, knowing that it could screw over your non-trouble players who were only in that position because of the a-hole?
No is a word that bad GMs are afraid of, and all of these stories come down to a GM who is not willing to stop this sort of behavior and as a consequence ruins all of their player's experience trying to cater to one player.
Yeah, and like with the Burning Hands of the webs, he could just have said "the webs burn to cinders, but no spiders appear." Making it overly complex by having it actually start a massive fire when most uses of burning hands don't tend to cause fires in most games even when it might make sense, does actually feel like something a player might get upset over. Webs burn so fast that most wood just wouldn't catch.
Not excusing her behavior, of course.
Her previous character in the previous video also could have been at least stabilized by the baker. Why would he chain her up to sell as a slave but then not do the barest amount of first aid to protect the merchandise? She was pretty so probably decently valuable as a slave.
@@Unahim Yep. Her explanation of events she said that she believed that's how burning spider webs would work, because that's how it works in real life. That's logic I would believe from a new player.
The other stuff OP glosses over is that first, they were bagging on her for thinking that there were spiders around because there were tons of spider webs, (GAWD, so STUPID!), then low and behold, the building right next to them was full of spiders. Second, that same Burning Hands spell somehow ignited all the webs inside the building as well, which probably did a lot more damage than any group of level 1 or 2s was doing, probably killed off most or all of the smaller spiders.
Then, in a discussion about player agency and the DM saying "No", the baker incident is a perfect example. Why would a DM who believed in player agency kill a player by torturing them while unconscious and not even let them roll their death saves? Especially a player in her first game?
Ok, Rowan sucks and her actions are reckless, but the DM didn’t have to kill the rest of the party because one player made a ridiculous call.
I might've been a place set for much later and they had misplaced hope that Rowen would learn her lesson if he kept it as intended. With that, probably didn't want to "single her out", so kept everything as intended for everyone so they couldn't be called out about it.
If that was their logic, they likely kicked themselves in hindsight.
He didn’t he only killed Rowan OP and the cleric NPC.
@@craftergamer9058 op was killed too on the bridge
@@jangelaclough5457 I said in my comment that OP died.
@@craftergamer9058 sorry, I read the Rowan/op together
"I'm chaotic good"
Bitch, that 'Contract expired' schtick was Lawful Evil at best!
More chaotic, betrayal, greed, Cowardice
So before I hear what CritCrab has to say, here's my take:
- How the hell did Rowan make it this far? The DM wasn't happy with these antics, and the party was even less appreciative. Rowan apparently felt singled out the whole time. Nobody was happy with the situation - therefore, there's no reason that this person should have even still been in the campaign. I hate to sound like the kinda guy who just boots everyone who ruffles my feathers, but far too many of these stories would stop short of becoming horror stories if more DMs had the balls to kick out their That Guys.
- I'm not gonna lie, the stabbing with a mechanical pencil is a little lame. Obviously I'm happy OP wasn't really in danger of dying, but if you're gonna tell a story about a stabbing, that's just not what I'm looking for.
- Maybe I'm being nitpicky, but even outside of his failure to deal with Rowan Dan's DMing is not something I think I'd enjoy myself. Critical failures equaling instant death, making a bunch of NPCs that carry the load during the adventure they're part of, putting in a creature that was clearly too powerful for the party in that devil... I'm not condoning Rowan's bullshit, as they were clearly the worst person at the table. But Dan's sure as hell no hero in this saga. And I wonder if he could have done things in-game that would have avoided some of these situations, such as making the evil thing that Rowan found something smaller like an imp - or better yet, if you've got something for the party to focus on already, maybe they just don't find anything?
I thought of it as the devil being something the DM had planned for later, but Rowan led the party to it really early.
It's because the story is heavily biased.
@@emikochan13 you are only saying this because rowen is a woman arent ya?
the op was not the dm
@@zibix4562 Their explanation sounds more realistic.
"I've been stab before"
Now you CAN'T mention that and don't elaborate
I mean really who HASN'T been stabbed at least once in their life it not THAT uncommon lol.
@@gazblackheart4596 I, For example
@@javsandarts Idk maybe its just an american thing. I am not sure where you grew up but kids were always stabbing each other with pencils and themselves when it comes to replicating the knife game. Not to mention real stabbing like my best friend in high school getting stabbed by his gfs ex in a park at night had to take him to the hospital. Seems like just a part of life to me.
They say being stabbed will initially not feel thaaat pain and more like something has been forcefully punctured into you. And I think the lack of pain comes from your body driving into fight or flight mode.
After a while, when the adrenaline wears off, that's when the pain sets in as the blood vessels stop constricting and you start bleeding everywhere
Gaz Blackheart: Dude I’m American and I’ve never been stabbed, nor have any of my friends (to my knowledge). You just live an unusually stabby life or something.
Rowan: **gets PCs killed.**
Everyone else: there is an imposter among us
Rowan was the Impostor.
rowan is sus
Rowan third impostering super hard
(as far as I’m aware):
Chaotic good, means, you would willingly and without any difficulty performing evil act for a good cause.
Chaotic neutral, means that you would do anything so long as it completes your goal. But that might also include willingly working with others.
Chaotic evil, means doing whatever you want for whatever you want which may on occasion mean working with others but in no way means loyalty, and they could very well use you as unsuspecting trap bait.
She wasn’t lawful or chaotic she was just stupid, stupid evil.
Eh, close. Chaotic Good means you do what is right, or what you honestly believe is right, no matter what the law says. This can be good in some cases, like if the law says it's O.K to keep slaves but your Chaotic good Rogue knows it's morally wrong to do such a thing and would go through hell and back to free said slaves even if it inconvenienced them.
That's Chaotic Good. It can also be rough, like if a fiend forced you to chose between saving an entire village of innocents or your party lives, even if there was a vague possibility of a third option. A chaotic good character may choose the option to save the most people, even at the lost of their closest friends. That being said, with good role-play, a chaotic good character could choose the riskier third option under the guise of not giving into the evil beings' demands and giving them a win. That's also Chaotic Good.
It's so rare to see people play chaotic good right, so many people take it as a "get out of jail free card" instead of the morally complex morality that it should be!
In my experience there are only four alignments in DnD. Lawful good, Lawful stupid, Stupid good, and Pure stupid.
This lady didn't make a single intelligent decision through the entire campaign.
My personal definition of chaotic good, neutral or evil: chaotic good is willing to rob an evil person to help poor people he doesn't even personally know, chaotic neutral is willing to rob a random person (but not a friend or someone he likes) to help himself or his friends/family, and chaotic evil is willing to rob anyone (including someone who saved his life once) to help himself
Essentially: a good person will help anyone, even a random stranger, and try to do minimal evil; neutral will help himself and those close to him, is willing to do some evil but still has lines he won't cross; and evil only cares about himself and there's no limits to what he will do
@@curnott6051 The Lawful/Chaotic scale isn't to just do with laws. It's specifically to do with means and moral integrity. A chaotic good character would make deals with bad people if they knew it'd bring a positive outcome, break promises if it lead to a better result than sticking to it, and act against the laws of any region if they're in opposition to their idea of good.
A Lawful Good character would still oppose a law of slavery in a country, but rather than breaking into property and forcefully freeing slaves, they would prefer to try and bargain slaves off of people, or convince those in charge to change the law.
The best way of putting it is that the Good/Evil scale is what you want to do or not want to do, while Lawful/Chaotic is about your etiquette in accomplishing it.
IMO: The scale from good to evil scales selfishness, with good being selfless and evil being self-centered. The law vs chaos shows your desire to follow rules, be them societal or self-imposed. (So a lawful evil Rogue would still obey honor among thieves, basically.)
Outright ignoring someone dying in front of you because "lawl money" is 100% evil (IE selfish) and probably chaotic too considering they ignored everyone else's terms for the quest.
yeah, uh, Rowan's unstable, but the DM's a prick.
1) has multiple save-or-die instances
2) the way Rowan's first character was killed off was *disgusting*
3) DM should've faded to black for sex scenes
4) DM let someone join a campaign after a session 0 full of red flags
5) I, for one, am not seeing any evidence of DM trying to correct Rowan in positive ways
6) it also sounds like expectations weren't actually communicated before any of this.
Is Rowan still unstable for trying to stab someone? Yes. But damn is DM looking guilty too.
That's what I'm saying. I doubt if Rowan would have started with a different DM it would have turned out the same way
Preach it! Throwing a save or die at OP because of some fuckery that another player got up to is terrible practice as DM. Also death by rape and beating is actually awful tone wise, and I would instantly quit any game that put one of my characters through that.
Absolutely. Over these 3 videos there were MULTIPLE instances of retaliatory calls.
And where's the problem here?
Its a fake story dude, who gives a rats ass.
The trilogy is complete
Balance has been restored
Peace at last..
**For now.**
CritCrab critcrab has replied to my comment. Lord CritCrab I shall redouble my efforts in the crab army.
Why do I get the feeling that someday we'll get a part four about this woman on rslash's channel and never realize it?
Bretsheelay I know right
“Aight, bet.” - even the devil was done with her BS lol
The GM has a lot of instant death rolls... not sure I'd like the game. Rowan's still dumb though.
It's an earlier system. The use of fortitude and reflex makes me think 3.5.
Insta death wasn't uncommon. Plenty of spells would insta-gibb you if you failed the save for example. Power word kill, circle of death, finger of death, phantasmal killer was 2 saves, but same thing, weird. Wail of the Banshee and Weird were particularly brutal because they were essentially a wisdom save vs death in a mass radius. And if the bridge is a part of a trap that needs a save to pass it, you aren't gonna fall down and survive unless you have a way of doing so.
Which, in those days at lvl 2-3, you would not. Wasn't uncommon to see a wizard at 2nd level, or even 3rd, with less than 10 hp so could still get 1 shotted by a goblin.
@@Grigeral I run 3.5 all the time. Prefer it to 5e. I'm very aware that these things do exist, but they're usually not introduced until higher level when characters have ways to defend against things like that. It's also the job of the gm to use them reasonably and sparingly and not toss them into every encounter.
My comment was from 6 months ago so I don't remember what this story was, but I highly doubt this was going on simply because "3.5".
@@xbamfo8199 Ordinarily I'd agree with you 100%. But in this instance, the DM warned the player who instigated it that the fiend she was antagonising was 'far more powerful than anything that they can handle' but she pushed it anyway.
How it reads, this was a thing set for much further in the game, probably around level 10.
If the players do something stupid despite warnings, I see no issue with the DM not going easy. Especially when it's consistent. Harsh for the rest of the party mind and considering the groups apparant nonchalance to it, I'd guess insta death isn't exactly uncommon so possibly also the DM being somewhat that way inclined as well.
Even in 5e you can insta die, especially at low levels. Legitimately, a greataxe can one shot kill a wizard, no death saves, do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars. All it takes is going negative your max health, so a 6hp wizard getting a 12 damage is just death. Rolling 5d6 for a trap? Possible shitty dm thing to do, but on the other hand as a level 9, why would your pocket dimension not be able to handle flies?
You know what, I think the DM just got sick of the whole thing and wanted an excuse for a TPK.
After stories like this, it now makes sense why my friend wrote "He'll never ever murderhobo" on his character sheet and the DM upon reading it said "Thank you," in an exasperated voice.
i like how OP just casually mentions that they've been *STABBED* before
I mean, it's not unreasonable to think that giant spider live in giant spiderwebs. Don't think it takes any particular knowledge skill to figure that out.
"I'm chaotic good" wth? My idea of Chaotic Good is "Do what you think is right, in complete disregard for the consequences", basically saying; "I know this could end badly, or I'll be breaking the law doing this, but it's what I think is morally right so I'm gonna do it and whatever happens next is on me and nobody else." So I know there will be consequences, I just don't care if I feel like it's the right thing to do and is willing to accept the consequences for those actions"(Will Turner style). So the way I see it, abandoning your party and risking everything for personal gain is not Chaotic Good, it's Neutral Evil at best.
Also, if Rowan thought she was being singled out when she was the one doing the singling out in the first place, then she really needs to re-evaluate her D&D playstyle.
Oh I don't disagree that Rowan was being singled out, but the reasons for it are because she keeps making terrible, selfish decisions that come back to haunt her. xD
@@Keyce0013 My point exactly, it was Rowan singling herself out and then getting mad that she was being singled out, or trying to rope the others in when she needs help and then getting mad when her disgruntled teammates refuse to help, it's "that guy" taken up to the next level, and I've heard about some shockers.
@@theandroidartist5897 Did they also try to stab people?
@@Keyce0013 That just makes them a sociopath that can't handle being told they're wrong and needs serious help before they literally murder someone over checkers.
Yeah, I was thinking of my Chaotic-Neutral character (which I totally tend to play Chaotic-Good because I'm too attached to the characters and players x) ) who would have struck a deal with the spider, maybe fooling them with glass beads in exchange of the artifact, or my Chaotic-Good, which would have seen the battle was in favour of the enemies, grabbed the artifact (not even considering the pile of riches), and called retreat while protecting his teammates with his body if needed... AND HE'S A WARLOCK!
Soo yeah, leaving a teammate to die (poisoned and unconscious) while looting the place of the non-important loot, and then butting heads with a powerful enemy (the devil) as they're offering a chance to *spare your friends* is NOT a Chaotic-Good move!
I unfortunately work with someone like this.
My condolences, have a mango 🥭
I like how when discovered, the lesser devil just sighed. As if he was already familiar with this character's bullshit, and just wanted to get it over with lol
Early crabs clack your claws! This story will be wild
*clacking sound rises*
Clack
Clack
🦀
snip snip
You know it's sad when a devil is trying to tell a child trying to fight them "I'm too busy, stop or you'll go in timeout."
I listened to the whole trilogy and part of me really has to point back to the DM Dan as being a problem. Being a DM is a difficult task and part of that task is to ease growing tensions. Rowan used Detect Evil to find a bad person and the DM leads the group to a 9th level Devil that happens to be in town. Yes, she pushed the DM to use the monster but teleporting the group to a dungeon with traps capable of instantly killing them was just a poor choice. Had he guided the game with some tact perhaps the situation wouldn't of escalated. Rowan's action weren't excusable by any stretch, but I played enough games to know that was a bad decision by Dan.
I agree. And, while there's nothing wrong with games where one bad dice roll can cause insta-death, I also think introducing a new player who is obviously struggling with how to function in a game like this to that is a bad idea. Plus, that moment where she said she was chaotic good, he should've called her out on it. It feels like the players called her out way more than the DM.
Part of it is a play style difference. D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder can be a lot more brutal than D&D 5 when it comes to character death. And the DM throughout the story has shown no hesitation over character death. Nor do most of the players seem to be up in arms around it, so it feels like this is just how they play. That said, the DM also seems to be consistently throwing things at them that are well over the party's capabilities. Even with NPC help, which I always think it's a bad sign if everyone has to have a hireling to have a chance and death is still common. I can excuse a merchant being secretly a high level devil who's reveal came way to early... But there were so many ways the DM could have dealt with that that wouldn't have involved the death of two characters. And that's not even getting into his decision of sending them after a bus-sized spider and her brood, a tribe of dire gorillas and to me the cardinal sin of killing a character off screen.
Moron, the DM already make the devil warning them and give them an exit "you are lucky, I have better thing to do" it was Rowan fault for make the devil angry.
@@EliosMoonElios They literally just said "Yes, she pushed the DM to use the monster but teleporting the group to a dungeon with traps capable of instantly killing them was just a poor choice. Had he guided the game with some tact perhaps the situation wouldn't of escalated." Also, there's no need to be so rude when they're just saying they felt the DM could have handled it better. They're not excusing Rowan.
That and Rowan using the DM PC Monk as a means to get loot? Almost getting him killed? Why does the party care what happens to the Monk? That's what your supposed to do with DM PCs, the're disposable. If the DM wanted a self-insert PC who develops in personality over the course of a few adventures he should have thought about that before becoming DM. Sure enough, Rowan is definately not Chaotic Good, more of a Neutral Evil. All the same, there is no excuse for attempting to stab someone. It's just a game, find a better group or take yourself out of the situation. That game honestly sounded a little too "DM loves to pass down punishment" anyway.
Any dm that has an unavoidable, repeating trap (the bridge) that causes instant death on a fail is a shitty dm.
For a half second, a half second I truly believed she would say “I’m not chaotic neutral I’m chaotic evil” and it would suddenly make sense
Assault aside.....
Why was this DM making *this particular* newb make her own character though? She couldn't properly play a rogue.
Why choose a duskblade for her?
Why make her go through spell lists that won't mean a thing to her?
She didn't even have it down well enough to figure out what race she was.
Jesus Christ, hand the poor player a pre-gen.
I would assume the reason is simple.
"Give a man a fish, he eats for a day.
Teach a man to fish, he eats for life."
The easiest way to learn is to go through it with them step by step, which means that later on they can make what THEY want to play, not what the Pre-Gen says to play.
Some are totally Read the Manual types. Often those people with RPG experience. Players like this don't mind an info dump at the beginning, because for the most part they're just learning new names for concepts they already understand. They already have some context.
But for someone with less TTRPG experience, having all those rules and new concepts thrown at them, a lot isn't going to stick because they don't have the context others have from playing such games. Like the newb player in this story.
If doing as you say were really the easiest way to learn for everyone, then she would have known how her characters worked and she clearly didn't.
I have seen players like her before. They're often perfectly fine if you just hand them a pre-gen. Standard gameplay doesn't involve making a new character from the ground up, it involves describing what one is going to do and rolling for it.
New players can learn by doing and they will want to make their own character later after they see and understand how it works.
Because pre-gen characters suck for *everyone*, even new players. By the sounds of it the DM really took his time to explain and help her with character creation. She was just *that guy*
You said pretty much the same thing that the other guy commenting said.
My answer is the same.
1.) I've seen pre-gens used with new players (especially players new to RPGs in general, like the girl in this story) and they worked just fine with absolutely no complaints.
2.) Subjecting a player unfamiliar with the rules to an info dump in their first session, is not helpful. Not everyone learns the same way. Learning by doing is often more effective anyway.
3.) Regardless of everything else, the player clearly didn't understand the rules, which proves that the info dump she received before the session formally started, was ineffective.
4.) The player was still wildly immature in how they dealt with in-game situations, and I would agree that it was mostly her fault.
But writing off the situation as solely the fault of the player paves right over the things that the DM could have done better. That's my overall point.
I have never given a new player a pre-gen, and I've never had a problem with that. Making a character yourself familiarizes you with the rules you will go on to use during the game and prompts you to think about the kind of person the character must be to acquire their skill set. I also believe that it instills a sense of investment in the character and offers a greater opportunity to have that all-important first play experience be with a skill set you are actually interested in using.
People learn differently, sure, but people teach differently, too. Suggesting that it is beyond the pale to build a custom character with a new player is simply off-base. For all we know, she may have _requested_ to build the character herself.
I have to say I place some blame on the DM and the rest of the party. If someone you are playing with for weeks has bad behavior and is getting visibly upset, you should stop the game and try to have a conversation with that person to explain that they need to curb their behavior or you will remove them from the game.
My mom almost had me eating crabs tonight, I showed her the light of the great crab.
Educate the masses
@@CritCrab Yoooooo, best day of my life so far. Thank you
You should've consumed the crab to gain its power.
Oh, crab shaman, i see?
Just do not forget: not dea lwith dragons, okay, chamer?
Sorry for the spelling mistakes, English is not my native language
"A fancy name for a spell casting sword fighter"
Sir I believe the word you're looking for is "Spellsword"
I know its hardy the most egregious thing that happens in the video, but it sounds like this DM was running a real meat grinder game. Like they had three insta kill traps? The fire trap, the bridge, and that portal home? I thought they where all level 2? Probably not a great idea to run a meat grinder if one of your players is a little unstable.
...Mother! Mother! Mother! Mother! -Yes, my child, why have you called me from the world of the deceased? Ah nevermind, I see you're going to join me there.
As much as Rowan is someone I wouldn't want to associate with, I must say I wouldn't enjoy playing with the rest of the group. I don't like the DM's style of randomly killing off players. I guess that's a matter of personal taste, but I don't like the "it's just a deadly world, deal with it" kind of philosophy. I've been so lucky to have mostly played with DMs who wanted the players to succeed and create epic moments together and would bend the rules a little in order to achieve that. Character deaths were rare, and when they happened, they were planned together with the player to end the character's arc in an epic way, not some "you botched a roll and now you fall off a bridge" kind of stuff. This made us pretty attached to our characters, and legend-building a huge part of the game.
One other point, I hope we would have dealt differently with a player like Rowan. Introducing new players to our group included talking about the way we want to play and how everyone should have fun. I think that's a very useful thing to do. New players often come with ideas inspired by computer games, so to make clear that we were not about minmaxing or "winning the game" helped them gain a different perspective. (Nothing wrong about wanting to play in a different way, it's just often not very compatible with what we were trying to do.)
It comes through in the scene with the spider webs how the rest of the party made fun of Rowan, and although this might have been understandable at this point, if everyone is fed up with this player, doesn't that call for some real talk out of game and some explaining of gaming philosophy? Granted, this wouldn't have helped her general unstableness and things might as well have ended up exactly the same. But it's clear Rowan didn't really know how to have a good time with the game and the rest of the players, and maybe that could have been handled differently before it all escalated like this and she went totally crazy.
agreed. DM takes a good heap of blame in this in my opinion. communication is key, and it looks like there wasn't any.
agreed. the whole group seemed pretty off to me. not to mention if the fighter was her boyfriend, why didn't he talk to her about the situation?
Uh is anyone else concerned that OP straight up was like, "now I've been stabbed before" like WTF why are multiple people pulling knives on you bro? Idk I'm dubious about this one. There's just a gut instinct that either OP is omitting stuff or exaggerating. Also the DM sounds iffy too.
I can't be the only one noticing that every one of these games should have started with: "Alright. What kind of game are we all expecting or want to play?" Or "This is not Skyrim, dont treat it like you're the only one that matters."
"wishy-washy build-a-bitch" is such a fucking fantastic phrase. This is definitely me when making a character, but I have the decency to get my shit squared away before I come to the table.
When the devil trapped them and they said they said “we aren’t here to fight”
Rowan: we, who is we, you speaking French?
I remember I had a warforged in my party who's serial number was 1139. I saw him write it down upside down and realized it looked like bELL, so we called him that, but I like Vinny too
My current party is travelling with one named H8-C71M3.
@@viperblitz11 Hate Crime?
@@KingNedya Yep
Chaotic good?! How the f was Rowan's character chaotic good?!
Burning down a forest for no reason apparently and leaving your comrades behind for some damn gold aren't chaotic good actions.
Chaotic good. Chaotic evil... What's the difference other then everything?
@@SallinKari chaotic evil is murderhoboing, chaotic good is like being a hero for the ones that are near you, aren't I right? Then I still don't comprend how Rowan thought that she was acting correctly
@@oneoftheboyz1538 Chaotic evil is more then just murerhoboing. I think trying to grab loot and ditch your party counts at that.
On a side note, Chaotic good can be more then just that. It's simply about not being someone to follow rules and authority but what to help people. Robin hood and a vigilante that took it upon themselves to help people fight corrupt authority are all chaotic good, or at least can be as it has to do with motivations as much as actions.
A perfect example of actions not defining alignment is someone who does all the actions of a hero and save the kingdom but only do that due to the fact they know they will be granted a noble title and lands for the trouble. That's actually an lawful evil character, who follows the rules and laws in order to benefit themselves, only helping others because he knows it will benefit him in the end rather then any morality or caring on his own part.
Sorry for the rant. I have a bit of a pet peeve when it comes to simplifying alignments to singular archetypes when you can do so much more interesting things with them.
@@SallinKari don't apologize, I know that what I said isn't totally right and that some alignments have also other meanings than the ones I said, but... Some players choose chaotic evil just for murderhoboing and not to achieve other things, probably you aren't one of those persons.
A lot of my pgs are chaotic neutral or lawful evil, sometimes I also chose neutral good.
So I didn't experience it by myself, but from my experiences with some other players, most of them just murdered everything in sight. In a campaign I turned tons of town guards against them, resulting in a tpk and ending the campaign there for my character by becoming the leader of the royal guards.
P. S. Sorry if I misspelled something or meant a thing for another, but I'm not English.
@@oneoftheboyz1538 Honestly, if I play evil I usually play lawful evil that way the party kind of knows they can rely on me to act a certain way or at least if they take certain actions. I don't find being opposed to the rest of the party interesting or fun, but playing a Machiavellian character can very much be.
The Alpha Dire Gorilla: Who set fire to our forest!
Group: The Kray Kray lady over there. *they point to Rowan*
ADG: It's challenge day, man.
New CC video this early? RAISE YOUR PINCERS CRABS!
Okay, my thoughts with 7 minutes left on the video and then I will update.
There's enough sucking to go around the room here. First, the DM introduces a DM NPC in the form of an ass-kicking warforged that finishes the fights for the players if things get tough.
Second, after two separate sessions playing with a person that nobody is getting along with, they invite her along for the third session and are surprised when she acts exactly as she did in the prior two Adventures.
Thirdly, the players all of a sudden have a problem with metagaming when The Narrative of the first two parts that's clearly how they roll played most of everything.
Fourthly, the DM decides to discipline Rowan not by pulling them aside, not by stepping out from behind the screen and just saying cards on the table your play style is incompatible or blah blah blah. No he in the players essentially clued to have DM NPCs show up and beat the players ass. That is a s*** way to handle things sorry. Regardless of who's right or wrong, Adam should never do something like that because it implies he is siding with some of the players, is taking out his aggravations on player's directly, or is a railroading DM and it's punishing the players for deviating from his pre-written plot.
Ask for Rowan? I'm starting to wonder if this person even understands the rules are ever had them explain to them. Thinking that any of their behavior was any good alignment is just ridiculous. All of the quotes of Rowan sound like somebody just made a list of badass quotes from movie villains. And I get the distinct impression that all Rowan ever wants to play is Rogues and decided regardless of the character being given to them they were going to continue to play a rogue.
OP is the only person I can't get a firm beat on beyond the fact they clearly hate Rowan and have from the very beginning which makes me wonder if there's context for that Beyond this guy looking back on dealing with the player.
I also don't understand this reluctance to just let the character stay dead and kick the player to the curb. The DM for good or for ill had his out. Her character caused Untold Devastation and got the crap beaten out of her by a bunch of angry monkeys. The character dies, he tells the player have a nice day. Unless I've missed it, and I can go looking for the Reddit thread, I don't understand this reluctance to just kick the player out and move on with life.
Okay here's my update.
First 2 mistakes on my part. I guess I missed it in the narrative. The warforged isn't an NPC though it sure as hell feels like the DM imbued him with DM NPC powers in that spider fight. And Rowan is there because she's banging one of the other players. Which does explain the reluctance to kick her ass to the curb no at this point I don't know why people didn't talk to her significant other and say look I know you wanted her to play but this ain't working out.
Second of all, I got to say I'm a little let down by the hype. For all of the hype buildup of o p got stabbed a mechanical pencil is hardly what I was picturing and while it's crap Behavior to do anything like that that's not nearly in the same boat as an actual knife or real sharp object.
My concluding thoughts: this DM is a very bad DM. He doesn't know how to Wrangle his party or mediate disputes. He uses events in game to discipline players rather than not ruin the adventure - the minor devil and the monkeys being too really good examples of this. He has either a loose grasp of or disregard for the rules in that he allows players to do things like Bluff gravity.
Rowan is a player that if they had bellied up to my table, I would have tried to make some efforts to rehabilitate their behavior. I've done that in the past, dealing with players that wanted to act out homicidal Tendencies or metagame Etc. Pulling the player aside and discussing their character build and realistic motivations would be one such conversation. Also is a d m I like to set Basic Ground rules in session 0 and one of my biggest ones is I don't approve inter-party combat or sexy time role-playing. I don't think it's conducive to a good game, clearly these were good examples of it not, and it's not really fitting for my style which going by the discomfort outlined by o p, wasn't really their style either.
Up until the mechanical pencil stabbing, I was thinking there were multiple ways to try and handle this peacefully or differently. And I am firm in my belief that the o p had issues with Rowan Beyond in game. They profess innocence as to why Rowan is constantly glaring at them, and thinking that they're organizing everybody against them, and the story is suspiciously absent of any interactions between the two players up until the point of the stabbing attempt. It doesn't excuse Rowan's behavior and if anybody tries to physically lay hands on another player that that's an immediate ejection for my table.
I'm going to have to dig up this Reddit post and read through it, and I hope nobody takes any of my posts as condoning or excusing Rowan's Behavior. They violate two of my three main rules, sexy time role-playing and inter-party combat. They also play a sociopath who is playing like they would if they were playing a video game role-playing character and I don't approve of that either.
Role playing is interactive storytelling, with a dice serving as a medium to mediate disputes where people disagree as to what should happen next. And one of the biggest things is that while you should get invested in a good story, people shouldn't start taking things personally - especially to the point of sending a horde of pissed off monkeys to beat up somebody who is pulling the story in a bad Direction.
@@cthulhupthagn5771 in my opinion Rowen was not properly introduced to the role play part of DnD, for a new player i think it is very important to get your head around the concept. also when playing with new players it is not cool to not explain to them the consequences their actions could incur, explain to them that they should treat the game as they would a real life situation, and remind them at every step what their options are. if they take DnD as a video game where you can do whatever you want then that is misleading. in my opinion they should have spent more time explaining stuff to the new players then outright punishing them all the time.
My friends and I are still going through my first DND session right now. My character is a chaotic good bard named Pim, the Satyr Twink. The most violent thing he’s done so far is call a crocodile some choice slurs.
Thank the maker for the rage quit. This was one of the harder series to listen to but I'm glad I did and honestly, I'm beyond happy that my players have never tried half of the stupid shit that this guy did.
What gets me about this is that there was a session zero where red flags pop up and they still allowed her in the game. Session zero is part of vetting processes, of red flags pop up you nix that sh!t in the @$$ then and there. It does not ever get better on it's own.
Why are the best ideas and concepts always wasted on terrible players?
I like to play Chaotic Neutral and I would be thrilled if a party member got IC angry with me and smacked my character. It'd be a great start for them to get character development and maybe learn to be less selfish or greedy.
Heck, if the players know it to be in good fun, it can be great stories to talk back about. Like my character did it twice: once because he thought it would snap the cleric out of a spell that caused the frightened condition and second was when the cleric sent down some rotten rope to lift mine from a spiked pit trap. I failed my check to climb, and the rope snapped and my character fell (screaming "son of a bitch!") back into the trap. When the cleric used his good rope to try again and my character climbs back up, the response was to smack the cleric upside his head again in a fit of bloody and exhausted rage. We both label that as amongst our top interactions.
As said though, players have to be okay with this type of interaction bexause some get testy.
I mean, I have a character that is Chaotic-Neutral. But he's not in situations where he can really express it, so he's more of a Chaotic-Good (borderline Neutral-Good). But he's a cleric of a Chatic-Neutral deity of Lust, Deception and Vengeance. So he kinda stumble trying to make his goddess proud but when there's a *literal apocalypse* you can't really act jerky, so he's mainly doing stupid lies and parlour tricks. (But I have a plan, a marvellous use of trickery to orientate the team to assassinate a personal enemy of my character. It will be great! I hope! Oh, and also I lied to a teammate that got struck by a Divine Smite that the damage she felt [Chaotic/Neutral, Divine Smite do partial damage on Neutral targets] was our goddess purging her of her sins. That character is a champion, my cleric was pretty jealous at that time [long story short Champion has seen Goddess multiple times, and Cleric is a devout since decades and never did, so mega jealous.] . She was quiiiite distraught, to the point I asked the player how she felt about that during the after game, but she told me it was good sport, that she was aware that it was in.game flare and not a personal attack.)
And I have a Chaotic-Good character (that I made for an online game with people I don't really know, to ensure the team will be tied up). And boy oh boy are the others such jerks it's hard to keep the Good side! (I'm gently making him slide, still acting for Good, but taking more aggressive spells, acting more sombre and in the next game, he'll straight-up lie -first time EVER I actively act against other players, but it's been talked with the DM- to keep an ability that would be hard to manage but powerful if used for good: Lycanthropy. [long story short I'll have to temporarily become a werewolf the time of a ritual, then the Wolf would be removed, all of it relatively safely.])
Sorry for the brick of text x)
@@NWolfsson Goddess of lust, trickery, and deception. Can I guess Calistra?
@@ugan2 Yess indeed (With flavour that my character being of Elven noble origin, and began as an Aberrant Sorcerer [a.k.a. ugly as heck], he was more focused on her alternate sphere of Beauty in elven purity. Long story short on how he became cleric, had a hard solo session to lose the Sorcerer levels, lineage and appearence, and levelled up double-speed with new class as Cleric.)
@@NWolfsson Oooh, sounds interesting Calistra was a deity I always found interesting if you want to make antihero type of character. As for the origin, have to admit very creative
Rowan's character:
Karma: How many times do we have to teach you this lesson?!
The DM punishing the other players for being dragged along without their permission to an instant death trap was absolutely shitty, he should've offered to revive the others for that bullshit.
I call upon the council for advice and guidance, so I’m like 80% my DM is gonna kill my new character, so I’ve been making a new wizard and I love him he’s the best character I’ve ever made, one day me and the DM were talking about my character and he said “Man I’m gonna love it if he dies within the 1st session.” And I say “Oh I don’t think that’ll happen.” Which he says “Oh we’ll see.” This was a few weeks ago, last night me and my other friends who are also in the game I asked them and put Rouge said “He’d do it cause it would be a funny story to tell his other friends about how he killed a player in 1 session.” And I don’t think she’s wrong so I’m worried now what should I do, I need the guidance of the carb empire
i would talk to the DM straight up stating you would not enjoy the idea of him going out of his way to kill your character
seems like an asshole and you shouldn’t waste time in his story where you know he’ll just kill off your character
Destroy
Say no, if he refuses, send him to the gulag
Tell them you'll play an NPC for the first session for no particular reason. Having an NPC die in the first session is not nearly as cool a story as a PC, adn dying in the second session has a much less ear catching ring to it. Plus, them saying "a player of mine played an NPC because they felt I'd kill their character on purpose session one" will probably be a nice big red flag to those listening, perhaps your actual fear that makes you ask this will be a reality check. We can only hope.
"Got Donkey Kong smashed into the dirt" is now entering my lexicon.
I can attest to the line of being able to tell when someone is actually trying to stab you. I have experienced both actually being stabbed and "play" stabbed
Most morally justifiable chaotic good character.
"Actually attempts to stab OP-"
Not even 30 seconds in and this is already a treat, huh?
Edit: *SHE'S CHAOTIC **_G O O D_* HOLY FUCK LMAO
"Imagine Rafiki but jacked" is the perfect tinder bio
"wishy-washy build-a-bitch" I'm fucking dying
I like how the lesser demon just went "Aight bet"
"Imagine Rafiki but jacked"
Why did the DM have so many "roll a save or instadie" encounters? That seems beyond lame.
“Rafiki but jacked.” Is my new character creation goal.
You could say Rowan *missed the point* of Role-Playing.
I don't think that enemy got... the point.
I am not going to excuse Rowan's behavior out of game or in game. I am going to share my point of view on what I feel Rowan was attempting to do, but failed at, which raised the tensions.
It seemed that as a new player, Rowan was chasing what I would call the "Cool Moment". Everything Rowan tried to do in these stories was to achieve the one goal of getting a cool hero moment.
If you watch D&D videos, or hang out with people that have played D&D for even a few months showing up to every session and playing their characters, then they inevitably will have some story about something amazing their character has done.
Those cool moments that happen almost never happen when one is trying to make it happen, or they have a plan and it goes a little sideways which makes it cool, it is a naturally occurring event. So when a player tries to force those cool moments, like poisoning people, screwing a slave trading baker probably planning on murdering him in some event, or burning the spider webs down expecting to see or hear the deaths of numerous giant spiders, or pulling a callous roguish move of grabbing the treasure and taking off, could all be cool moments.
Could be, if you have an idea of how well your party works together, the mechanics of the game world works and use some carefully applied logic. So what made Rowan a bad party member was this bid for the cool moment which would be used to talk and laugh about later. Rowan felt singled out because Rowan was making these big moves on their own and making the big mistakes with them.
I feel I have done similar things, but I learned from those mistakes and allowed things to progress naturally in time.
I agree that cool moments are as satisfying as they are rare and (in most cases) impromptu. And I will share a cool moment to show. to my knowledge this is the only real time I had a really cool moment in a whole ass campain that span many years and is about to end:
One of my Cool Moments (tm) was with my Chaotic Neutral Cleric. And I'd like to specify that none of that was premedited, I... felt the flow, shall we say? (Think of the Luck Potion in the Harry Potter universe, books specifically.)
Battling a Marilith, I used the Sacred Smite prayer. (Evil takes it hard, Neutral takes it moderate, Good get nothing.)
The Ranger, Champion of the same goddess as my Cleric and notorious Chaotic Neutral, was in the AoE.
For flair, we consorted with the GM and he agreed that Sacred Smite could make the targets feel the judgment of the divinity. And so the Champion felt herself punished by the goddess she serves.
During the cart journey home, post battle, the Champion addressed the situation, asking my Cleric for guidance. I -bullshitted away- told her that it was indeed the goddess, but that there is nothing to fret, that she purified her from her sins.
The Champion was distraught. She didn't understand how she could have done anything against the goddess, and was afraid She wasn't pleased with her any more. Counselling progressed, but the truth that the prayer didn't have much to do with the divine entity's will never emerged. Cause: My Cleric that if a fervent since childhood was jealous that the Champion had met the goddess multiple times.
During the after-game, we talked between players, and I clarified with the player that I wasn't targeting her, nor was angry against her or her character. She reciprocated by saying that she was aware that it was flare and not the reality of what happened, but will still play the character as if it was the case, and all is fine between us :) (also, having had half a dozen divinities appearing before him and asking to become the target of his faith rather than his goddess made him understand his power and prerogatives as a Faith guardian, namely that his strength is that he doesn't need confirmation to have faith in his goddess. Because, as sir Terry Pratchett says: "Knowing is the easy way. Faith is hard. You can't really have faith in something you know is true. You can't have faith in the mailman. it wouldn't be proper.". This led to my Cleric planting his heels in front of the Ranger/Champion and say "Y'know... I'm not jealous anymore." to the confused face of the Champion who didn't know anything of his inner turmoil.)
I don't think she was "chasing the cool moment". What she was doing was, "wanting to be the center of attention at all times". She was "singled out" because people didn't do what she wanted them to do. They didn't magically come to rescue her and help her do the things she was doing. Her complaints admit as much.
Her real life is likely the same way. She's the center of attention or wants to be the center of attention of everyone around her. She's used to just getting her way. She's used to everyone just falling in line and doing what she wants them to do. She's used to people bailing her out of tight situations.
This is why when she's confronted by the OP on how nobody wanted to do anything she was doing and everything bad that happened was her fault... she snapped and tried to stab him. She also didn't expect retaliation for trying to stab someone. She's used to getting her way. She's used to people ignoring her bad behavior and "going along to get along" so as to just not have to deal with her nonsense.
She wanted to go to the baker at midnight. Nobody else wanted to go, so she went and did it her way anyway. Then, when she failed, she was upset that nobody had come to help her. She was also upset that she'd been painted as something other than the character she was playing.
No, she's a person used to getting whatever she wants and being able to make any excuse she wants to get away with terrible behavior. That's all she is. She wasn't chasing "the cool moment". She expected everything to be about her. To revolve around her. Everyone was supposed to follow her. Everyone was supposed to do what she said. Everyone was just supposed to fix things for her or take the brunt of her bad decisions for her and shield her from them.
She's got what I call "spoiled brat mentality". In general, you don't play D&D with these people... or have them in your life at all.
honestly your voice-overs are soothing because of how consistent your tone and speech is and i can just let your vids outplay and lay down and relax
Save or dies always annoyed me. If I fail a save or die with a character I actually put effort into role-playing and all that, why would I bother putting effort into the next one, knowing that a bad roll is gonna make me start all over again?
Death by doing something especially stupid, or for making several bad choices in succession? Fair enough. Death because DM told me to roll a save as a result of somebody else doing something stupid? Alright. My new characters name is John Doe. He's a True Nuetral Fighter that likes vanilla pudding.
Semi off topic. Personally, the number of save-or-die effects the DM employed would not fly with me or my players.
Yeah was unepik
I don't know... after hearing the whole story... A) a mechanical pencil might hurt, but it's NOT going to break skin. Maybe if she was aiming for his eye... B) It sounded to me like she was new to dnd and didn't understand a lot of the rules and etiquette, and everyone seemed more concerned about plunging forward and hoping she got it than trying to help her mesh. and C) They were kind of singling her out and exploiting her lack of game knowledge.
No, I'm not saying her attempt to stab him with a pencil was in any way appropriate or even sane, but there are options the DM could have taken outside of murdering her off, especially when the "results" of her actions don't fit the reality.
Just one example: Setting a web on fire doesn't mean wood will set on fire. It's actually really hard to set a forest on fire, being as trees have water in them. It takes a lot of dead shrubs dryness for it to happen. Then, this super intelligent gorilla not only isn't killed by his home burning down, but managed to march right through the fire, find the point it started, figured out it wasn't a natural fire, track down the culprits, and be certain it's one of these people who just escaped a ruin that don't seem involved at all. Don't tell me the DM wasn't gunning for her.
I agree with your take. I dont think there is anyone there not sharing the blame. You should have more upvotes.
Well, she did have it coming. There should be some consequence for that action, right?
I get what you're saying but as someone who was stabbed by a former abusive friend with a mechanical pencil because I had the courage to break off the friendship (but still cared enough - unwisely enough - tell her to her face), it's still not an excuse. Other than that, I do agree that maybe she doesn't feel the same way. They should have been more patient.
I just have to say I love your videos, i found you yesterday and cannot stop watching. You fulfil my D&D craving as im way too shy to try and start a campaign online (even though i basically have a character created), anyway keep up the great work!
I would honestly like to say that you are one of my most favorite RUclipsrs, i’m working to be a DM myself and I would like to think that your show is a good reminder that not everyone will be easy to play with. I like to think your show prepares me for a lot that could happen with new people but in all honesty nothing can truly prepare you for what happened in this episode I just want to say I love your show I watch it as often as I can and I’d love to see more content whenever you make it I haven’t had it on yet but I’m going to set reminders for when you post new content I love your show don’t stop thank you for your time
Sup, have a great day crab squad
After all these years
Finally, I have them all
Crab squad 🦀🦀🦀
@@honq8792 Have all of what?
Love your vids :)
Thanks!
"She's not chaotic neutral. She's chaotic good"
I dunno if leaving your party to become spider food and abandoning the Monk you hired after he begged for your help, AND stealing from him, is chaotic good.
I feel like we're all just glossing over the beautiful phrase that was "wishy washy Build-A-Bitch" lmao
I have no words over how she treated that NPC monk. I somehow have even less over her looting despite being in _imminent danger._ It’s like she took the words out of me without me actually saying it, and those words are: “you’re the reason why there’s posters that say how to wash your hands.”
As ridiculous as it seems to point this out when the player acted so shockingly...
This DM sounds like he sucks, to be honest. The way the worldbuilding is described seems to make no sense whatsoever and things just sort of "happen". Sounds like he got bored and frustrated with the party and threw them into somewhere with save or die traps to get out of DMing lol.
Would've just left her in the burning spider webs with an "Adios, Satipo." Perfect opportunity for the reference
"I almost got stabbed but the rest was fun" is a very badass thing to say
Wow. What an amazingly sick person. I've seen some stuff in the 45 or 46 years I've been playing, a fist fight, PvP character murder, stuff like that, but I don't believe I've ever seen a player try to stab another out of character. I like you channel very much, just recently found it, thanks.
Fail or die saves at any level for something silly like a bridge is stupid.
I have to second this - even with a natural one - save or suck rolls shouldn't be at this level.
The gm killed in this pocket dimension three character, because of save or suck. Maybe Rowan is a big ***hole and a murder hobo who don't think about consequences and she definetly deserved it, but the GM shouldn't create such ugly Save or Suck traps for a Level 3 party.
I mean it was supposed to be a level 9 party, though save or suck is always suck. Maybe the DC wasn't that high though, Idk. Would like to get the DM's side of that part
@@Sil3ntLynx It was a Level 9 enemy - the party was level 3.
@@Celldragon Yes... But it was never MEANT to happen then. She forced it, the rest of the group accepted and followed.
She did something stupid, they followed her. DM was entirely within his rights to not weaken it and reward player stupidity.
Just realized video has been up for less than an hour. Been waiting for this since yesterday, so hype!
"Wishy-washy build a bitch" - my new favorite dnd phrase
How tf do u rage quit in dnd? How tf do u rage in dnd in general? Like “BRO THAT GOBLINS ANNOYING WTF!”
It all depends on the situation. I can say that I've "rage quit" from a game since I had played in a couple of games with the DM and issues continued to pile up until I just couldn't stand to be around them anymore and gave an excuse as to why I was leaving and it was in the middle of the session. I also wasn't the only one who had a mass exodus I was the toppling effect of the domino from what I heard. But this DM basically would artificially inflate the DC's of things I was playing a rogue character that I was angling to be a master thief in the sense of noticing traps and picking locks. once I had a thieve's tools modifier of +12 the DC to unlock a mundane door or chest suddenly became 25-30+ so I just noped out.
Simple, you say "I want to rage..."
Its not that uncommon people quit dnd campaigns all the time. If its because they disagree with a ruling by the dm or a conflict with a player in game its a "ragequit" even if it may be justified.
I don't understand your question. Are you asking how it makes sense, or how the action can take place? I suppose t he answer for both is the same way you rage quit an electronic game like call of duty, or quit your job. It starts with an aspect of the game or workplace generating stress (Wether or not its your fault is another story), and in a rage, you refuse to associate any further with the sensation and quit.
You ever nat one three times only on your to hit or damage rolls? I went half a game like that quit after the fourth "miss" in a row to someone's 15 ac. Just wasn't my day.
Kinda feel like OP was antagonizing Rowan. Treating a new player like an idiot (even if that's what they are) is seriously demoralizing & generally has the opposite effect you're going for.
Also, killing her first character off screen is pretty rough. Evidently you wanna humble the character but at least have her be alive when the party finds her.
Unstable people are unstable, but that would have been a pretty miserable experience for any first-time player. There's usually a little bit of truth to it when these people insist they're being singled out. Not necessarily that they're being treated unfairly, but at least that the line between natural consequences & just being mean is getting blurred.
“Except this time the samurai got fucked instead of the baker.” Damn bro, that burned hotter than that forest fire ever could have.
"imagine Rafiki but jacked" idk why that hit me out of nowhere, I fuckin cackled
in all fairness, i probably would have burned the spider webs as well. I mean, the webs were there, implying deadly spiders were there. plus, the DM listed that as a detail, you can't expect players not to try exploring details. any random detail a DM throws in for flavor could potentially be a Chekhov's Gun. . .
there is an AL module i played and at one point in the module, it tells the DM to casually describe a bird flying by...and the players are "supposed" to kill the bird! but the DM is "supposed" to discourage the players from doing so and it doesn't fucking make sense.
i remember when i played that and the bird flew by and (not knowing anything about the module, i was just playing chaotic neutral and following my whimsy) i said "i want to shoot the bird with a firebolt" and the Dm goes "why do you want to do that?" (just like in the above story, when rowan wanted to burn the webs, the dm is all like "why do you want to do that?!" like as if she is doing something wrong) and i say "i dunno, maybe I want to cook it and eat its meat?".."but nah, nevermind, i don't want to be disruptive. . ." so i didn't kill the bird.
later , we get ambushed by enemies and almost get tpked.
afterward, i was considering volunteering as a dm and so I got my hands on that adventure module and was going to run it and i see the part about the bird and that the bird was carrying a secret message...about us...warning the monsters to set up an ambush and if i had killed the bird, we would have learned ablut the ambush and avoided the ambush and i'm like...yeah..well, fuck. . .
so calling rowan out for burning the webs ...how the hell could she have known that the wind was blowing the perfect way to make the fire spread through the woods and destroy a village of dire apes and elves and that the apes and elves would track everyone down and get pissed off.
this actually soumds like the dm was trying to teach rowan a lesson(rightfully so), by contriving consequences for her.
and yeah, she should get consequences for her selfish behavior, but i don't think she was wrong to try experimenting with the spider webs.
the abandoning the party, to run off with the loot was a dick move, but how could she have known that the webs thing would turn into that?
i dunno, Rowan seemed like she was legit trying to roleplay her character. she wasn't rules lawyering nor was she cheating. she just had this idea of who she wanted to play as and she stayed committed to it.
that being said..she was obviously disturbed in some way, when she kept accuse everyone of ganging up on her and ultimately attacked one of them IRL..
I don't think she was a bad roleplayer...she was a bad person, but not a bad roleplayer. she just brought the wrong character with her...twice...insisting on playing that character and nothing else. . .
it can be super frustrating to play with one of those.
I remember a guy in a group i had, playing a nercromamcer who wanted to be a Lich. and i told him, becoming a Lich is a long and dangerous process, requiring many many level ups and collecting info. it's a long term goal, that I would be perfectly fine DMing it but I wasn't the DM. . .and the guy was like..."no,no, i went online, found some homebrew stuff, i could totally be a Lich at level 3!" and i said "ueah, but that's homebrew stuff. . .under the official rules, that's not possible, you need to be able to craft your own phylactery. you at least need to know the magic jar spell..at the minimum, plus a ton of other stuff, plus you need to apprentice under a powerful demon lord or another Lich, to learn the secret formulas and stuff. you need to talk to the DM to work something like this out. I think it's doable, but you gotta approach it the right way"
( I wasn't even the DM, i was trying to help advise him )
he said nothing..went home.
next session, he shows up...and on his character sheet, ...he's now a Lich. he didn't tell anyone. he just decided between sessions. he was gonna now be a Lich..a level 3 wizard, who is also a Lich. .. of course the DM tells him that's not okay..and he exclaimes "i can see you all don't want me here!", he tears up his own character sheet and storms out, knocking over a chair in the process...nobody ever saw him again.
and I actually kinds of liked the guy, he seemed like a nice personality, except he just had an extreme edgy character concept he wanted to play and didn't want to take no for an answer and didn't want to be patient or anything and he thought everyone was just picking on him. . .
a lot of people who play DnD have social development issues. . .i don't think they should be marginalized for that, but i dunno how to work with them either. sometimes it's best to just not play with certain people.
i suppose eventually, you might get more skilled at identifying these people and avoiding future incidents.
I'd say she more didn't know how to roleplay the way she made her character. She couldn't play a rogue, she acted in a way that was more evil than her Chaotic Good alignment by abandoning her party for some riches...
I'd agree that she wasn't an outright horrible roleplayer as much as she was playing in a way that didn't suit her goals with the game.