just wanna add a note that judas, fka pibble/vatika, was not involved with howl fest in any official capacity, i believe. he was lumped into the HMHF discussion mainly 4 being in close proximity 2 most of the board & their friends, and usually with something like this, there's always a smidge of racism involved, so u could imagine that some overzealous furries who were already irritated by the very idea of HMHF had the dunk tank ready. but 4 the most part, judas' and howl fest's situations were separate
Vat really made it seem like they were though with how outspoken and die hard they were bout it, she was one of the loudest voices for it even though she wasn't part of it in any official capacity so people auto assumed they were.
I have never been able to afford to go to furry cons cuz I am poor, and now with everything getting worse in the world lately, I fear that when I can finally afford it one day, it'll be too late and I will have missed my chance because there'd be no good fur cons left. I hope I am wrong
Aside from the big cons (BLFC, TFF, Anthrocon, MFF, FWA) smaller ones pop up everywhere all the time. To make them more affordable, consider staffing; perks usually include free attendance, sometimes free food, and sometimes even a free room via staff crash rooms. Usually that's bigger cons but some smaller and midrange ones have those perks, too.
I am SO glad someone is talking about this. There's a huge lack of furries talking about this event (from what I've seen). I was wondering what happened to this convention after remembering it months ago and seeing that the event was cancelled in its entirety. I still own the shirt from back when it was first hyping up.
Honestly if I had more time to make this I would have done some deeper investigations on the convention itself. Hopefully someone else takes on that task; I myself would be interested in seeing it
I think the biggest issue with HMHF is that it was very much a group of friends with no event experience wanting to put something on without feedback from other people. I admire the people individually with their accomplishments in and outside the fandom but tbh they had no business trying to run an event at this scale. I was sketched out when they pushed back the convention a year under the moral guide of covid when all of the staff members were actively going to cons again at that point. When it quietly shut down without a single word of address from the staff members, it left a very sour taste in my mouth. It was better it happened this way then to occur and be a dashcon situation, but this staff team knew how much of a target for bad faith actors this con was and for them to fail without actually trying that much was disheartening.
Really sucks, given how Chise was involved in it, she definitely didn't deserve for this to fail. Chise definitely had the communications skills to be of use to a convention like this, but obviously as staff dropped out causing bigger knowledge gaps, and the huge issue with the merch vendor it was always going to be in trouble.
This brings me back memories of how Italy had not one but two furcons (and a furmeet) canceled within two years, with the reason being drama and infights between the events staff members.
This is such a well scripted, well edited video. Your setup looks awesome as well. Thanks for talking about this convention that i haven’t heard anyone else in the community talkin about!
I've been to Ramblewood for a different event before, and was interested in going again for a furry con. I also applied to help volunteer for the convention and was not contacted back about it, but assumed that it was just too early/busy at the time.
Two things that immediately come to mind: 1. When vetting vendors and such, usually getting 2-4 quotes from different businesses is a good starting point, because if things get at all awkward or you realize there's something not right, you know what your immediate, next-best option is. Depending on the particulars of the scam that happened though, it is entirely possible to walk right into it. 2. Not all conventions start this way, but for what I do, I only went from doing events to a convention after I was already renting a convention center to contain the event. If financially things don't go well, I can always reduce the scope for future years (2025 and beyond) and just be "an event in a convention center"). Starting from an event lets you know how much local support you have, and some localities have more dramatic strife in their furry community than others.
I was unaware of this furcon because I am NOT a camper ( 😀 ), but I can, to some extent, understand what happened, and I bevel it is a good lesson to other furcons and furmeets. I would add age and burnout to why existing cons die. Look at how many people on the leadership team are Gray Muzzles who have been doing this for years, even decades. I would strongly encourage younger furs to get involved if you regularly attend a particular furcon. Even a couple of hours volunteering can help the core team sooooo much!
I was only able to go to one con in the last 4 years, a small one called FurReality, 2019. I got to meet Pepper Coyote, and some TikTok furs. I had a fun Sunday November 3rd 2019 at that con. Since then, it wasn't able to occur due to the pandemic, and because it was a small con, it didn't have much luck with the hotel. It was a fun convention, and my first furry con experience.
My speculation is that a part of it was COVID, in that Chise was clearly leaned on heavily by her employers and she had to probably put in a lot of work during the pandemic working on vaccines. So it was hard for her to help focus on team management and involvement due to the real world troubles she was also dealing with. Honestly, would rather have had a vaccine in the timely fashion that it got out then a furry con. Hopefully she'll be given another shot in the future if she wishes it, but I'm sure she and the well meaning staff gave it their all.
That's such a devastating fate! 😨 I hope a furry con in Malaysia "FURs Upon Malaysia" still going strong in 2030 and later cuz I WANNA ATTEND AT LEAST ONE AND MORE AFTERWARDS! I don't wanna spend more of my money to fly to a furry con overseas 😭 cuz it's less expensive to go to a furry con in your country than overseas PS: I can go to a furry con in south Korea, Japan, China or even Thailand if I have enough cash for flight and merchandise 🤔
Wow. That took my breath away. How conventions fall and get cancled is just too much especilly when youre anticipating on attending. Great video, please keep up the awsome job. Oh, just want to let you know that FURCATIONLAND will be coming back for 2024. Please come on over...
I've been to smaller furry camping events, they can be done. But when done on a massive scale it's a whole other level. Alot of people think doing a con is easy because they have set up meets and realize it's a whole other kettle of fish, especially when the success of a first year overwhelms. Something succeeding to well all at once early on can be death just as much as a utter failure.
sadly a con tried to start near me. it was BADLY PLANNED and was was held at a totel under hevery reno. and it was a wif and husbmand team and the husbland just went around the con drunk as a skunk. it was so bad KAGE yes THAT Kage came to help and support and was so disgusted he just spent the whole time DRUNK off his taill regretting he even came! >< it takes a LOT to run a con and if half your leaders are toasted at the FIRST CON. you are doomed. Leardership is key! and one person can not run a con in chaos alone. Its a fun place to be bnut its not a personal party! it takes dedication and work to make (especially) a starting con to work! mcfc was built by two jerks who just wanted to be popular! qand they workered thair tails off till they realized. it was actual work and they still built it big! Before trying to kill it and its name and all else. ... but that took work to make it that huge!
had a con start in my area and it was SO HORRRIBLE! a special person came to help and he was so disgusted he sspent hit his time DRUNK off his tail and trying to get away! only one pesone was trying to run the con. and the husband was just toasy and treati ng it like a party. >< take a lot to run a con.
I live in Serbia and there are no furry cons here and also if i went to a furry con in Germany i wouldn't fully understand their language and also if i go to a furry con with my parents and if they see innapropriate content there i will be grounded and they will never let me to go on a furry con 😢 (Sry for my bad English)
Maryland is kinda a hot bed for dead conventions. The state has every opportunity to have a robust, well put together community and it just can't seem to do that. Leadership here in the community kinda seems... gutted I guess... I don't know enough about historical lore to speak on it but it just feels very much like the community is kinda running without its head.
1. Letting people wear fetish gear in the main areas where first timers/kids are at with there parents not a very good first impression in all honesty.... 2. Being openly lewd to the point where it makes others uncomfortable 3. Get rid of the nsfw aspects that almost all convention spaces have then we can truly fulfill our promise of having a safe and family friendly atmosphere (keep the nsfw content/material online) If we make the convention spaces fit for everyone convention spaces would have more funding and could afford to do much much more during the few weeks they are active/open from what i can tell most convention spaces are 18+ which really cuts off a whole group of people that wanna attend said events.
Fr, either designate the whole con as 18+, or contain that stuff to a separate space inaccessible to minors/get rid of it entirely. Cons need to actually pick one
I honestly do think you were a bit lenient here with HMHF. I dont think they deserve the benefit of the doubt, from what I've heard it's definitely ripe with drama and scandals beyond what you mentioned. I'll be making a video on them that goes much more into it, but I wish you had made this video a bit more generic in regards to dead cons as opposed to some sort of HMHF commentary, cause the roots go so deep I almost think this is a disservice to actually getting to the bottom of the crooks involved with HMHF in making your audience think that taking thousands of dollars and not returning a penny is okay, or forgivable.
I don't disagree that a more in-depth look into what happened with HMHF is warranted, I just purposely didn't want to do that and went off of publicly available allegations, just to give a relevant example to the more overall thesis of why furry conventions sometimes don't succeed. I'd rather leave a more detailed breakdown into the specifics of the failure of this convention to other channels better suited for that research (like yourself I presume), but I see your point that trying to combine those two separate topics could have been better executed. Appreciate the feedback nonetheless!
just wanna add a note that judas, fka pibble/vatika, was not involved with howl fest in any official capacity, i believe. he was lumped into the HMHF discussion mainly 4 being in close proximity 2 most of the board & their friends, and usually with something like this, there's always a smidge of racism involved, so u could imagine that some overzealous furries who were already irritated by the very idea of HMHF had the dunk tank ready. but 4 the most part, judas' and howl fest's situations were separate
⬆️ A clarification on the second point on problems with the staff!
@@FinnThePanther preciateu!^*
Vat really made it seem like they were though with how outspoken and die hard they were bout it, she was one of the loudest voices for it even though she wasn't part of it in any official capacity so people auto assumed they were.
Such a shame it died honestly! The concept sounds incredible, and I would have loved to have traveled up to check it out one year :(
I was really looking forward to it as well, hopefully a convention with a similar concept can get off the ground sometime in the future
Cringe
@@FinnThePantherthere is a similar concept in wisconsin with the night camp type thing, havent gone yet but in planning on it next year
I have never been able to afford to go to furry cons cuz I am poor, and now with everything getting worse in the world lately, I fear that when I can finally afford it one day, it'll be too late and I will have missed my chance because there'd be no good fur cons left. I hope I am wrong
I wouldn't worry about that too much, for every con that isn't successful, another one typically replaces it and lasts for a decent amount of time.
@@FinnThePanther Thank you! That made me feel a lot better
There are furry meets. Maybe there is one near to you.
Aside from the big cons (BLFC, TFF, Anthrocon, MFF, FWA) smaller ones pop up everywhere all the time. To make them more affordable, consider staffing; perks usually include free attendance, sometimes free food, and sometimes even a free room via staff crash rooms. Usually that's bigger cons but some smaller and midrange ones have those perks, too.
@@TheBluePony3 Also look up furmeets. There may be a small meet in your area. Those are free.
The production quality is INSANE! Nice work!
Much appreciated!
I am SO glad someone is talking about this. There's a huge lack of furries talking about this event (from what I've seen). I was wondering what happened to this convention after remembering it months ago and seeing that the event was cancelled in its entirety. I still own the shirt from back when it was first hyping up.
Honestly if I had more time to make this I would have done some deeper investigations on the convention itself. Hopefully someone else takes on that task; I myself would be interested in seeing it
Please go and play in traffic. Pleaseeeee.
I think the biggest issue with HMHF is that it was very much a group of friends with no event experience wanting to put something on without feedback from other people. I admire the people individually with their accomplishments in and outside the fandom but tbh they had no business trying to run an event at this scale. I was sketched out when they pushed back the convention a year under the moral guide of covid when all of the staff members were actively going to cons again at that point. When it quietly shut down without a single word of address from the staff members, it left a very sour taste in my mouth. It was better it happened this way then to occur and be a dashcon situation, but this staff team knew how much of a target for bad faith actors this con was and for them to fail without actually trying that much was disheartening.
Such a professionally made video and script and honestly, this definitely showcases a huge potential issue for future cons
Really sucks, given how Chise was involved in it, she definitely didn't deserve for this to fail. Chise definitely had the communications skills to be of use to a convention like this, but obviously as staff dropped out causing bigger knowledge gaps, and the huge issue with the merch vendor it was always going to be in trouble.
This brings me back memories of how Italy had not one but two furcons (and a furmeet) canceled within two years, with the reason being drama and infights between the events staff members.
This is such a well scripted, well edited video. Your setup looks awesome as well. Thanks for talking about this convention that i haven’t heard anyone else in the community talkin about!
I'd love to see documentaries with this quality on histories of other furcons and more! This is good work, love how this turned out!
Proud to have been part of staff of LVFC year one
Oh hey, nice to hear about LVFC
I had quite an amazing time there earlier this year.
I can't wait for next year, I hope it will go well.
I've been to Ramblewood for a different event before, and was interested in going again for a furry con. I also applied to help volunteer for the convention and was not contacted back about it, but assumed that it was just too early/busy at the time.
Two things that immediately come to mind:
1. When vetting vendors and such, usually getting 2-4 quotes from different businesses is a good starting point, because if things get at all awkward or you realize there's something not right, you know what your immediate, next-best option is. Depending on the particulars of the scam that happened though, it is entirely possible to walk right into it.
2. Not all conventions start this way, but for what I do, I only went from doing events to a convention after I was already renting a convention center to contain the event. If financially things don't go well, I can always reduce the scope for future years (2025 and beyond) and just be "an event in a convention center"). Starting from an event lets you know how much local support you have, and some localities have more dramatic strife in their furry community than others.
holy shit this is actually crazy high quality, keep it up finn!
As someone who wants to go to a furry con, this is really a fear of me: That the convention I wanna go just gets cancelled
Realistically most conventions don't just die. They have reported issues before hand.
I was unaware of this furcon because I am NOT a camper ( 😀 ), but I can, to some extent, understand what happened, and I bevel it is a good lesson to other furcons and furmeets.
I would add age and burnout to why existing cons die. Look at how many people on the leadership team are Gray Muzzles who have been doing this for years, even decades. I would strongly encourage younger furs to get involved if you regularly attend a particular furcon. Even a couple of hours volunteering can help the core team sooooo much!
Great vid! I'd love to see a vid going into specifics, like how certain furcons died and what lessons can we learn from them.
Love the new fancy edditing
Thank you! It was so fun putting this together
It's got that classic RUclips video-essay style
I was only able to go to one con in the last 4 years, a small one called FurReality, 2019. I got to meet Pepper Coyote, and some TikTok furs. I had a fun Sunday November 3rd 2019 at that con. Since then, it wasn't able to occur due to the pandemic, and because it was a small con, it didn't have much luck with the hotel. It was a fun convention, and my first furry con experience.
My speculation is that a part of it was COVID, in that Chise was clearly leaned on heavily by her employers and she had to probably put in a lot of work during the pandemic working on vaccines. So it was hard for her to help focus on team management and involvement due to the real world troubles she was also dealing with. Honestly, would rather have had a vaccine in the timely fashion that it got out then a furry con. Hopefully she'll be given another shot in the future if she wishes it, but I'm sure she and the well meaning staff gave it their all.
That's such a devastating fate! 😨 I hope a furry con in Malaysia "FURs Upon Malaysia" still going strong in 2030 and later cuz I WANNA ATTEND AT LEAST ONE AND MORE AFTERWARDS! I don't wanna spend more of my money to fly to a furry con overseas 😭 cuz it's less expensive to go to a furry con in your country than overseas
PS: I can go to a furry con in south Korea, Japan, China or even Thailand if I have enough cash for flight and merchandise 🤔
11:57 we dont talk about rainfurest 😶
We don’t talk about Bruno~ 🎶
(Okay, I’ll leave now. 😅)
@@MichelleNyxRaymond lmao that was unexpected 🤣
Rain Furrest sounded fun, I would have liked to go to that one.
Thanks for the info Finn❤❤❤❤ your videos and coverage is amazing
I remember when you said it's hard to move in a the suit and yep it's hard for the paws any way
Wow. That took my breath away. How conventions fall and get cancled is just too much especilly when youre anticipating on attending. Great video, please keep up the awsome job. Oh, just want to let you know that FURCATIONLAND will be coming back for 2024. Please come on over...
I've been to smaller furry camping events, they can be done. But when done on a massive scale it's a whole other level. Alot of people think doing a con is easy because they have set up meets and realize it's a whole other kettle of fish, especially when the success of a first year overwhelms. Something succeeding to well all at once early on can be death just as much as a utter failure.
sadly a con tried to start near me. it was BADLY PLANNED and was was held at a totel under hevery reno. and it was a wif and husbmand team and the husbland just went around the con drunk as a skunk. it was so bad KAGE yes THAT Kage came to help and support and was so disgusted he just spent the whole time DRUNK off his taill regretting he even came! >< it takes a LOT to run a con and if half your leaders are toasted at the FIRST CON. you are doomed. Leardership is key! and one person can not run a con in chaos alone. Its a fun place to be bnut its not a personal party! it takes dedication and work to make (especially) a starting con to work! mcfc was built by two jerks who just wanted to be popular! qand they workered thair tails off till they realized. it was actual work and they still built it big! Before trying to kill it and its name and all else. ... but that took work to make it that huge!
I was super stoked for this when it was originally in the works
Wasn’t expecting this video to open with a reference to my hometown. B-More represent
Capitol city in Harrisburg died because the founder took the money from the con and ran with it.
Damn
Glad we still have something similar called FTO in north Carolina
had a con start in my area and it was SO HORRRIBLE! a special person came to help and he was so disgusted he sspent hit his time DRUNK off his tail and trying to get away! only one pesone was trying to run the con. and the husband was just toasy and treati ng it like a party. >< take a lot to run a con.
The editing and storytelling reminded me a lot of my video I made on the con a few months ago
Also wonder how you got your sources
Probably social media stuff if I had to guess
Blegg
That was very informative and well thought out.
😸
When I’m a bit older, when I’m 18 I wanna go to my first furry con
There should be a furry convention in San Diego California usa
I’m surprised that a panther doesn’t like camping!
I think this furry con was one of those things where it was affected by the virus that shall not be named.
ngl, midwest acting like they just get to own the term 'furfest' is pretty uncool of them
I live in Serbia and there are no furry cons here and also if i went to a furry con in Germany i wouldn't fully understand their language and also if i go to a furry con with my parents and if they see innapropriate content there i will be grounded and they will never let me to go on a furry con 😢 (Sry for my bad English)
Maryland is kinda a hot bed for dead conventions. The state has every opportunity to have a robust, well put together community and it just can't seem to do that. Leadership here in the community kinda seems... gutted I guess... I don't know enough about historical lore to speak on it but it just feels very much like the community is kinda running without its head.
Crap.
This would have perfect for me. I live just a few hours south of that location.
I know there's a lot of furries that are a part of the Pokémon and Sonic fan communities
I went to two diffrent conventions and they were fun
1. Letting people wear fetish gear in the main areas where first timers/kids are at with there parents not a very good first impression in all honesty....
2. Being openly lewd to the point where it makes others uncomfortable
3. Get rid of the nsfw aspects that almost all convention spaces have then we can truly fulfill our promise of having a safe and family friendly atmosphere (keep the nsfw content/material online)
If we make the convention spaces fit for everyone convention spaces would have more funding and could afford to do much much more during the few weeks they are active/open from what i can tell most convention spaces are 18+ which really cuts off a whole group of people that wanna attend said events.
Fr, either designate the whole con as 18+, or contain that stuff to a separate space inaccessible to minors/get rid of it entirely. Cons need to actually pick one
i love furrys ❤ beacuse they cive love to people
Good good ....
I honestly do think you were a bit lenient here with HMHF. I dont think they deserve the benefit of the doubt, from what I've heard it's definitely ripe with drama and scandals beyond what you mentioned. I'll be making a video on them that goes much more into it, but I wish you had made this video a bit more generic in regards to dead cons as opposed to some sort of HMHF commentary, cause the roots go so deep I almost think this is a disservice to actually getting to the bottom of the crooks involved with HMHF in making your audience think that taking thousands of dollars and not returning a penny is okay, or forgivable.
I don't disagree that a more in-depth look into what happened with HMHF is warranted, I just purposely didn't want to do that and went off of publicly available allegations, just to give a relevant example to the more overall thesis of why furry conventions sometimes don't succeed. I'd rather leave a more detailed breakdown into the specifics of the failure of this convention to other channels better suited for that research (like yourself I presume), but I see your point that trying to combine those two separate topics could have been better executed. Appreciate the feedback nonetheless!
dègéñêràcý
You again, leave us alone.
@@atomicyeeter1423 degeneracy needs to be purged
you know commenting makes the algorithm recommend more of these videos to you right?
@@LilacMonarch yes and i will keep comment my opinion on these.
@@atomicyeeter1423 never, until this degen idea is purged.
there aren’t many in california, so ….