@@refittoro5282new mythology monster 👹 creativity KAPTAGON METHAMPHETAMINE OPIUM valium mixture with heroin and cocaine STEROİDS Probably because you are not able to provide you own cultural monuments Vardarkians Skopje and Arnavut.. 😅
The Elgin Marbles were legitimately bought from the government of the day, Local Greeks who at the time were deeply orthodox actively assisted in the removal and transportation of the statues they at the time saw as Pagan idolatry, The fact that due to interest from Western scholars the Greeks themselves started to look back at their ancient history and reassessed the value of the items is irrelevant, as for a loan of the statues the question is can the Greeks be trusted to give them back and the evidence so far would point to a hard no
The Parthenon/Elgin marbles were literally given to us, yet people claim they're stolen and demand the British Museum return them. Then you dig into that claim and on literally the first google result you learn that fallen marble statues were being burned to extract lime for building, so the British Ambassador requested permission to extract some and was granted it by the Ottoman Empire. He then funded shipping them to the UK himself. To say that they were stolen is ridiculous. Do some actual research so you have an informed opinion instead of spreading misinformation.
@@Finnbobjimbob The british koolaid flows freely I see. It's ok, you can keep the marbles. And everything else you have stolen from everyone else. We get it, you have no history or culture. You are nothing. You even let your rejects revolt and become a powerful nation. You are the biggest laughing stock of the world.
@@Finnbobjimbob i dont know if you are aware of Ottoman occupation of Greece? Imagine France occupies UK and sells queens palace and Stonehenge stones to Spain. would you like it?
The Parthenon/Elgin marbles were literally given to us, yet people claim they're stolen and demand the British Museum return them. Then you dig into that claim and on literally the first google result you learn that fallen marble statues were being burned to extract lime for building, so the British Ambassador requested permission to extract some and was granted it by the Ottoman Empire. He then funded shipping them to the UK himself. To say that they were stolen is ridiculous.
With the same logic Herman Goering was the legitimate owner of whatever piece of art the collaborationist governments of Europe let him take away. @@Finnbobjimbob
It'"s an outrageous lie to pretend that those marbles were fallen. Elgin removed them from the Parthenon damaging many on them in the process as well as the building itself. The looter payed for the extraction and the transportation. So what? Does not make him a lesser looter. Return them to Athens before some blue haired UK lunatic decide they are a symbol of white supremacy and attempt the smash the patriarchy and the sculptures in the same gesture @@Finnbobjimbob
@@Finnbobjimbob Elgin stated that he had permission from the Ottoman officials who ruled Athens at the time. This claim has been disputed. For “Ottoman officials” you could substitute “invading army.”
The Parthenon/Elgin marbles were literally given to us, yet people claim they're stolen and demand the British Museum return them. Then you dig into that claim and on literally the first google result you learn that fallen marble statues were being burned to extract lime for building, so the British Ambassador requested permission to extract some and was granted it by the Ottoman Empire. He then funded shipping them to the UK himself. To say that they were stolen is ridiculous.
Sunak does understand that Greece has veto power on EU decisions right? Like a potential agreement on immigration? Or trade, or anything? I dont mean that you have to accept whatever the other side want, but proper etiquette is not that hard.
@@professorminstrels6460 It's ours, therefore "Elgin marbles" is the correct and proper name for them. The Greeks can call it whatever the hell they want, it's not theirs and never will be 🤗
@@curls9032 funny but Greece has been out of crisis and made early payment of all of its debts. Greece has paid all its loans up to 2 years in advance. Greece was scummed enough with the crisis with a purpose of lowering its negotiating power, now things have changed.
Hello, I am Greek (living in Greece). Apart from the question whether the marbles should returned or not (remember we are talking about reunification not just a standalone piece of art) , cancelling the scheduled meeting when the Greek PM (whoever that is) is already in the UK is of great INSULT to Greece and the Greek citizens. I am amazed how low UK has gone during my lifetime
@@roberw1912 'The Greeks broke promises' ? What are you talking about?? All the Greek PM did was respond to a BBC question and repeat his country's 2 century year old stance on the return of the marbles. No serious government official rejects a historic ally's head of state on the grounds of 'broken promises'..this isn't a middle school personal quarrel.. All Sunak had to do was respectfully publicly disagree and repeat his country's 2 century year old equivalent stance without breaking basic diplomatic etiquette and hindering the relationship between two friendly countries.
@@hellaseurope2012 the reason the British feel disrespected is that get accused of being thieves when they legally purchased the item. Greece the country was not even in existence in 1810. The marbles would have been lost if it was not Elgin and the reason Greece is interested in them so much is because they are the best reserved part of the Parthenon.
The Elgin Marbles were legitimately bought from the government of the day, Local Greeks who at the time were deeply orthodox actively assisted in the removal and transportation of the statues they at the time saw as Pagan idolatry, The fact that due to interest from Western scholars the Greeks themselves started to look back at their ancient history and reassessed the value of the items is irrelevant, as for a loan of the statues the question is can the Greeks be trusted to give them back and the evidence so far would point to a hard no
The Parthenon/Elgin marbles, People claim they're stolen and demand the British Museum return them. Then you dig into that claim and on literally the first google result you learn that fallen marble statues were being burned to extract lime for building, so the British Ambassador requested permission to extract some and was granted it by the Ottoman Empire. He then funded shipping them to the UK himself. To say that they were stolen is ridiculous.
Rishi Sunak's decision to cancel the meeting with PM Mitsotakis is nothing short of a diplomatic fiasco, showcasing blatant disrespect not only to Greece, a steadfast ally, but also to the fundamental principles of cultural heritage and international relations. This move reeks of unprofessionalism and undermines the UK's credibility on the global stage. The Elgin Marbles, or as rightfully called, the Parthenon Sculptures, are emblematic of Greek heritage and civilization. Their forced separation from their homeland is a historical injustice that demands rectification. Christopher Hitchens, a towering intellect and moral compass among many others, vehemently advocated for their return to Greece, recognizing this as a matter of ethical imperative and historical correctness. The UK's stubborn refusal to engage in constructive dialogue, now punctuated by Sunak's ill-advised cancellation, is a slap in the face to these values. It's time the UK government realized that cultural artifacts are not trophies of colonial conquest but treasured symbols of a nation's identity and history. This is about respecting and acknowledging the cultural and historical significance of these artifacts to their homeland. Sunak's decision is a regressive step, perpetuating outdated imperialistic attitudes and ignoring the voice of reason and justice. The Elgin Marbles belong in Greece, in their original context, reunited with their remaining counterparts. Any other stance is more than just a diplomatic error; it's a moral failure.
I disagree. I think Rishi was right to cancel the meeting with the Greek PM. The Greek PM was unprofessional in discussing something in public that he should have discussed in private with Rishi.
All that is going on in the world and Greece focuses on this. If your country actually contributed some money into the EU and NATO more people would care.
It is shameful and disrespectful to the marbles created by the ancient Greeks Where it will be called by the name from him were stolen. They are called the Parthenon marbles
They were not stolen, they were legitimately bought from the Greece by Lord Elgin. Under the Ottoman Empire Greek temples and treasures were being destroyed. Elgin was an art lover and hated seeing history being destroyed. So in 1810 he bought some of the artefacts, and had them shipped to England to save them. The final shipment of the Elgin Marbles reached London in 1812, and in 1816 the entire collection was bought from Elgin by the Crown State of England for the sum of £35,000, and given to the British Museum. One could argue, if it were not for Elgin these treasures would have been destroyed hundreds of years ago! Don’t brandish the British as thieves when it’s a total lie, and a little bit of research by you, would have made you better informed
First, the dude in number 10 is a caretaker PM as he is not elected. Second, the marbles should be returned as they are nothing to do with Britain and are in fact stolen. I am British and can trace my family history to before 1700 in (almost) the same place I live now and I have no idea why we have those treasured items which mean nothing to us.
@@thorkushari4027 Greeks have nothing to do with Türkiye, Before Turks Turkiye was part of east Rome empire later Byzantine as for Armenians they were stateless people for last 1500 years until first war world
Declining a meeting of a European ally because they stated the position they've always had, to reclaim their cultural heritage, is nothing sort of ridiculous. After bringing Cameron back in the place of their one honest politician, this government seems to be as clumsy as humanly possible.
The argument that the Parthenon marbles were saved from disaster doesn’t exist, as you can see with a visit to the Acropolis museum. What Elgin didn’t take, is preserved till now, in a better condition (without the cleaning mistakes of the British museum’s staff in the 1930s). There, you can clearly see the parts that were saved from Elgin’s vandalism, shining under the Athenian light, waiting to be reunited with the remaining parts from the British museum. It is heartbreaking to see the five Caryatids from Erechtheion standing impressively, waiting for the sixth one which is still in the British museum. It is not just a demand for return. It is a way of expressing respect for the Parthenon, one of the greatest human achievements, and for the values it represents. If this is not an action of a civilized country, then what is it?
UK Prime Minister making the UK proud on the international stage again and making friends and influencing people ... what a disaster the UK government is ...
ottoman and elgin stole 2 ships with marbles and only one ship reach UK the other one is 1000 meters in bottom of the sea near crete . all those marbles elgin not taken for UK but for himself... and after his death given to the british museum which is private! it is not public museum. if the marbles was given the ownership will belong to UK and not to a private company (museum).
The Parthenon sculptures, also known as the Elgin Marbles, were taken from the Parthenon temple at the Acropolis in Athens. They should be returned to Greece immediately!!
What sacrifice? Anything like the sacrifice the UK suffered liberating Greece from the Nazis. I believe the marbles should be returned, but your choice to exaggerate gives reason to doubt sincerity. They should be returned for one reason, the UK didn't buy them, therefore they do not belong to us.
The Elgin Marbles were legitimately bought from the government of the day, Local Greeks who at the time were deeply orthodox actively assisted in the removal and transportation of the statues they at the time saw as Pagan idolatry, The fact that due to interest from Western scholars the Greeks themselves started to look back at their ancient history and reassessed the value of the items is irrelevant, as for a loan of the statues the question is can the Greeks be trusted to give them back and the evidence so far would point to a hard no
The Parthenon/Elgin marbles were literally given to us, yet people claim they're stolen and demand the British Museum return them. Then you dig into that claim and on literally the first google result you learn that fallen marble statues were being burned to extract lime for building, so the British Ambassador requested permission to extract some and was granted it by the Ottoman Empire. He then funded shipping them to the UK himself. To say that they were stolen is ridiculous.
@@Finnbobjimbob They weren't given by Greece, which was under occupation by the Ottaman Empire. They were taken, much like the art taken during the Nazi occupational years, or China's historic, cultural art, during their occupation.
They've already done this in Greece. There are many great replicas in the Museum of the Acropolis, so they could go ahead and just start trading the replicas for the originals.
@@craven5328 Yes! They can Copy them so exact these days. Share them between the two. It would be a Win Win situation for both… The More Eyes that get to see these wonderful Sculptures, the more Civilization wins. By having them at Both, the most eyes will get to see them! 👍🏻 In saying that: I don’t think that the Sculptures had anything to do with the cancellation of their Bilateral Meeting. There are deeper shenanigans at play here. 👍🏻
The Parthenon marbles, as they are more accurately called, obviously belong on the Parthenon. Why should you name them after the person who stole them?
The Parthenon/Elgin marbles were literally given to us, yet people claim they're stolen and demand the British Museum return them. Then you dig into that claim and on literally the first google result you learn that fallen marble statues were being burned to extract lime for building, so the British Ambassador requested permission to extract some and was granted it by the Ottoman Empire. He then funded shipping them to the UK himself. To say that they were stolen is ridiculous.
@@robmaslen6446*_Spoils of War._* They became the Ottoman Empire's property. Therefore, they were the Ottoman Empire's to gift to whomever they desired.
@@British_Rogueso if lets say the french come , conquer your country , and give pieces of Stonehenge to Germans as a gift , then with this logic , these pieces of Stonehenge belong to germans. For you this is both legal and moral i guess
We weren’t embarrassed while stealing them. Why should we feel any shame in denying their return? How can something created in Greece in antiquity be called the ‘Elgin Marbles’…
The Elgin Marbles were legitimately bought from the government of the day, Local Greeks who at the time were deeply orthodox actively assisted in the removal and transportation of the statues they at the time saw as Pagan idolatry, The fact that due to interest from Western scholars the Greeks themselves started to look back at their ancient history and reassessed the value of the items is irrelevant, as for a loan of the statues the question is can the Greeks be trusted to give them back and the evidence so far would point to a hard no
The Parthenon/Elgin marbles were literally given to us, yet people claim they're stolen and demand the British Museum return them. Then you dig into that claim and on literally the first google result you learn that fallen marble statues were being burned to extract lime for building, so the British Ambassador requested permission to extract some and was granted it by the Ottoman Empire. He then funded shipping them to the UK himself. To say that they were stolen is ridiculous.
The sellers were not the owners therefore did not possess any right to sell. Therefore they were robbers which makes the holders of the marbles today a fence since they keep them for profit.
@@jonsouth1545 sorry to say but you either don't know or don't tell the full story. Elgin committed a larceny or theft (after 1968) by taking the marbles. He got paid for the Parthenon marbles, sold them the British museum-government to pay his £18000 debt. Another irony is that he only got £17000 for them. Even his wife Mary Nisbet left him because of his financial problems, not able to construct the mansion he promised. Also sad that he damaged all the remaining Parthenon Marbles. This also shows he didn't care about the history and the importance of Parthenon but was only interested in making money as he was skint. :)
The Elgin Marbles were legitimately bought from the government of the day, Local Greeks who at the time were deeply orthodox actively assisted in the removal and transportation of the statues they at the time saw as Pagan idolatry, The fact that due to interest from Western scholars the Greeks themselves started to look back at their ancient history and reassessed the value of the items is irrelevant, as for a loan of the statues the question is can the Greeks be trusted to give them back and the evidence so far would point to a hard no
@@jonsouth1545 That is an absolute Lie, or at least a distorted representation. Muslim albanians were damaging the monuments, just like they damage your country today (heard you had a recent influx of them). They were always the pawns of the turkoarabs. Once the Greeks Freed themselves, they began a massive program in conservation of all Greek Antiquities in & around the Parthenon & the general Acropolis area. Kyriakos Pittakis, a distant relative of mine, was the one in charge of much of the work & preservation (he went through hell). Sources have tried to distort his accounts, but my family has passed down the story about the "Columns for Cannonballs". The story goes: ".. And yet this energy, so characteristic of the ethos of the Greek revolutionaries, is overcome by an unbelievable and yet true incident that is mentioned in the funeral logos of Kyriakos Pittakis, related to the siege of the Acropolis of 1822. When the Greek besiegers were informed that the Turks were chipping the ancient buildings to remove the lead that exists in the joints of the stones, after the suggestion of Pittakis, they sent bullets to the Turks to have them stop the destruction .." ^^^Some British sources have tried to hide this story & say that the Greeks were shooting indiscriminately. That is simply a forgery & a LIE. The Greeks, despite their fallen state & lack if education, understood that these monuments were sacred & proceeded to do the unthinkable, provide the their own Enemies with BULLETS to use AGAINST THEMSELVES, so that the Monuments could be salvaged. This Family story has been passed down from my distant ancestor. Many others have confirmed it, but Propaganda from the other-side tries to use Forgeries to deny it, to justify their claims of course. You must admit, that is SIMPLY EPIC. Just hearing that bit of History reveals who they truly belong to..👍🏻
@@tastypymp1287 No, split it! 😃 Win Win. And no more stealing from now on. Also, quit your dealings with the turds, the same cl0wns that promote the islamo-terrorist takeover of your country. WAKE UP 👍🏻
The Parthenon/Elgin marbles were literally given to us, yet people claim they're stolen and demand the British Museum return them. Then you dig into that claim and on literally the first google result you learn that fallen marble statues were being burned to extract lime for building, so the British Ambassador requested permission to extract some and was granted it by the Ottoman Empire. He then funded shipping them to the UK himself. To say that they were stolen is ridiculous.
The Elgin Marbles were legitimately bought from the government of the day, Local Greeks who at the time were deeply orthodox actively assisted in the removal and transportation of the statues they at the time saw as Pagan idolatry, The fact that due to interest from Western scholars the Greeks themselves started to look back at their ancient history and reassessed the value of the items is irrelevant, as for a loan of the statues the question is can the Greeks be trusted to give them back and the evidence so far would point to a hard no
The Elgin Marbles were legitimately bought from the government of the day, Local Greeks who at the time were deeply orthodox actively assisted in the removal and transportation of the statues they at the time saw as Pagan idolatry, The fact that due to interest from Western scholars the Greeks themselves started to look back at their ancient history and reassessed the value of the items is irrelevant, as for a loan of the statues the question is can the Greeks be trusted to give them back and the evidence so far would point to a hard no
The Parthenon/Elgin marbles, People claim they're stolen and demand the British Museum return them. Then you dig into that claim and on literally the first google result you learn that fallen marble statues were being burned to extract lime for building, so the British Ambassador requested permission to extract some and was granted it by the Ottoman Empire. He then funded shipping them to the UK himself. To say that they were stolen is ridiculous.
It's amazing how much the Tories want to hang on to something that 1) the British public doesn't care for and 2) has nothing to do with British history. Why are they so attached to someone else's family albums? It's a mystery.
@@LEXOTANYL don't thing so , this interest its. a cover up to direct attention away from more important issues, it is a bit romantic and patriotic. fire to gain votes by Greek. gov, Marbles will stay and you have thousands. of it already
@@user-pb3sd6wu7x with a little reasearch I made it makes ton of sense now, They are the far right nationalists who trully believe that their nation have more commons with ancient Greek than Greeks themselfs, thankfully we are talking for a minority of British citizens with this specific mindset so we should move on and be greatful for the ones with the modern ethic and judging capabilities instead of arguing with the few arrogants.
What have our friends ever done for us Bare in mind, the Greeks SOLD these marbles , a British man spent his own money to get them back , if not for him and the museum no one would see these statues, ever Besides Epstein and his friends
The Phidias Marbles actually , because Phidias created them and Elgin nicked them. These are not some sculptures , these are part of a temple, a place of worship, sacred artifacts, the temple itself.
The land was Ottoman at the time, and Elgin rescued them from a state of continuous destruction. Locals were using stone from it to build local structures. They wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for the efforts of Elgin.
@@_ArsNova Too much bs in a sentence. The rest of the temple is there, you can see it if you visit Athens. It wasn't used for building anyone's house 😂 The Greek PM should have taken some stones from Stonehedge and place them in Acropolis museum. Then we could talk on an even basis.
@@vibes292 The Greek nation existed during ottoman times even if reduced to dhimmitude. The ottomans were colonizers as well as occupiers in Greece. Hitler and his minions sacked all the museums they could in occupied Europe. Many pieces of art have been seized in random private collections after the war. According to your theory that's no big deal. Just second hand eBay stuff. Those sculptures are a part of a memorial monument to the Athenians fallen during the Persian wars. We Greeks will never stop fighting to get them back. Also Britain is not a safe place for any "white supremacist" sculpture so you better send then back kick before some blue haired lunatic smashes them in pieces with a hammer for political gain.
The Elgin Marbles were legitimately bought from the government of the day, Local Greeks who at the time were deeply orthodox actively assisted in the removal and transportation of the statues they at the time saw as Pagan idolatry, The fact that due to interest from Western scholars the Greeks themselves started to look back at their ancient history and reassessed the value of the items is irrelevant, as for a loan of the statues the question is can the Greeks be trusted to give them back and the evidence so far would point to a hard no
@@Patrick-y4d1zAll the logical people you stupid f*ck. Who's says that you're English? You're most likely an immigrant. Your prime minister is a coward.
@@JohnnyCash-wr5zl remind us how many times Greece has been conquered compared to Britain again? You were literally owned by Turkey just over 100 years ago, who also ethnically cleansed you, so no, you’re not the ‘same people’
Almost every BritIsh citizen would agree to return the Elgin Marbles back to Greece and the people. Regardless of any reason. They are GREEK, they belong to the country they were taken from. What ever the reason. It would be the best gesture from all the BritIsh people to return them to where they belong. ‘And a big thanks for letting us look after them’.
unfortunately you never got rid of your racist past and for many of you you never will.But dont worry Paytime is coming soon for the U.K. Enjoy your islamic future.The jihadists are turning your country to Afganistan day by day.Birmingham is showing the way hahahahaha!@@BadlydrawnBen
@@BadlydrawnBen British barbaric spirit there I see, no matter how you try to portray yourselves as different from your ancestors, it always comes back to you. FYI, there was no Greek state back then, we were under Ottoman rule.
@@jimakisspd very barbaric legitimately buying ancient artefacts that where being crushed and burnt to make lime and then housing them in a museum for the world too see but if that's you're definition of barbaric il wear it
@@random_an0n It's not cos of tourism, they've wanted them back for a long time. If you go to Greece you'll see the Parthenon hasn't been used for concrete mix but is still standing
lmao bruh they begun using it for concrete mix cause they was too poor to afford to buy the building materials,some of the wear on the ruins is caused from those days not errosion of time....only NOW in the age of trains planes and aeroplanes and cheap holidays and tourism NOW suddenly they care about their own history@@athlitikosomateioanth4567
yes it is! and parts of the ruins WAS used for concrete mix lmao even the egyptians used the limestone covering of the pyramids to build old cairo we preserved it,if you wanna see them go to london,this is not up for debate@@ntlrdm
How dare they consider loaning the marbles to Greece. You are loaning someone THEIR things. That is a slap in the face to Greeks and their proud history.
Britain's a laughing stock thanks to our last 5 PMs and Sunak wasted no time becoming such an embarrassment. We should return the statues but if he disagrees he should have taken the meeting and made his position clear not cancel it like a petulant 8yr old.
no we wouldnt cause we never used ancient statues as building material cause we was so broke and another country swooped in to preserve and keep them safe
@@random_an0n That's not true now though is it, it's their heritage not ours. Whatever the reason might have been in the past it no longer has the same meaning.
@@direnova6284 Check his comments on other videos, calling black guys "Tyrone's" and "bucks". Racist nobody pretending to be an official video game company. Don't take anything he says as serious or valid
@@vibes292that's because the romans and vikings didn't take anything since there was barely anything to take, in those days you brits were tribal wanderers living in hills and houses of hay, no statues or great arts to actually steal...
@@Mark-HaddowHe did. He actually did, and saved them from certain destruction. Of course, being the fanatic that you are you'll never listen to reason.
The Parthenon/Elgin marbles were literally given to us, yet people claim they're stolen and demand the British Museum return them. Then you dig into that claim and on literally the first google result you learn that fallen marble statues were being burned to extract lime for building, so the British Ambassador requested permission to extract some and was granted it by the Ottoman Empire. He then funded shipping them to the UK himself. To say that they were stolen is ridiculous.
Too much drama for us to care here in Greece with how prices have skyrocketed , but Parthenon is probably our most important landmark. These arent just marbles. These are sculptures and the whole parthenon is a piece of art. Not any sculpture separately. So yeah , its like cutting Mona liza in half. The sculptures were taken in Ottoman times , in an empire not Greek that didnt care about the sculptures.Elgin bought these as if he was buying just marbles, in a very low price and he destroyed many of the as he was dragging them down from the temple. Lets be real , he didnt care to protect the marbles. He cared about making money. Technically british museum owns these , but its obvious that they should be here with the rest of the work of art , in a modern musem just under Parthenon. Britain has a rich history , they dont have to steal the others' one.
The Parthenon/Elgin marbles were literally given to us, yet people claim they're stolen and demand the British Museum return them. Then you dig into that claim and on literally the first google result you learn that fallen marble statues were being burned to extract lime for building, so the British Ambassador requested permission to extract some and was granted it by the Ottoman Empire. He then funded shipping them to the UK himself. To say that they were stolen is ridiculous.
@@Finnbobjimbob Well as I said British museum technically owns them , but essentially what's stealing or not is not always clear in these circumstances. First of all it was 2 centuries ago. As I said Parthenon is a whole work of art. It's an ancient temple. A building which was made to be exactly here in Athens. It's nothing like French owning Mona Liza which is Italian. Parts of one of the most renowned landmarks were taken apart from the rest of it. You claim to have saved them from Ottomans, and probably that's the case but there are many other sculptures that were saved and are exposed here. You saved it , well done. Why don't you let the world see it as a whole, as it's used to be? If you took these to protect them , then why don't you give them back now that can be safe here and be reunited with the rest? These sculptures have absolutely nothing to do with your cultural heritage. And you took them as part of a deal , with an empire that had also nothing to do with these. The people whose a huge part of their heritage was taken , couldn't be asked about it.
@@Finnbobjimbob Ok, by your logic, if your home starts burning and you abandon it, if firefighters come to put out the fires, they have every legitimate claim to take your TV, your pc, your sofas, tables and generally anything you may own and keep them for ''protection'' and never give them back to you.
Modern Greeks are not descended from Ancient Greece. A lot of immigration has occurred to Greece since Ancient times. So these artifacts are NOT the Heritage of todays Greece but are the world's Heritage. Same goes for Italians and Modern day Egyptions - Ancient Rome or Egypt are different people from todays Italians or Egyptions. So the British Museum or any other museum don't have to give up anything.
@@titteryenot4524But it's not about any artefact, it's about the sculptures of the Parthenon, one of the most known and important landmarks not only of Greece, but of western civilization in general. You can't have half the Acropolis in Athens and the other half in London, it doesn't make sense.
@@titteryenot4524 How those artifacts ended up in a different country should be considered. In this case, the Brits stole them, so they should be given back.
@@a.a.1753 You didn’t address my point: if the Elgin Marbles must be returned, then so does every single artefact in every museum on this planet, if you’re being consistent. Why do the Elgin Marbles get a pass here?
@@jamescook9125 Lol. And how many artefacts in all the museums in the world were ‘stolen’? We’d be here until eternity if you’re going down that road! 🤣
The marbles should be returned to their rightful owners all theft must result in restitution and heavy fines or imprisonment applied. Sunack is now an accomplice in this theft.
Really appalled with British Prime Minister behavior yesterday, canceling a long scheduled meeting before the actual the meeting taking place. If Greece and Uk are allies as advertised and this is the behavior among members sharing the same values I can imagine how the British Prime Minister behavior would have be if they were enemies! British people have lost their credibility leaving Europe however what this tell us is that these values were long gone before leaving Europe. God save the king as he has a long work ahead of him with Torries in power.
@nicjohnson1496 I agree with the gist of your comment but would like to point out that the Parthenon sculptures issue has been around for decades and through a string of Labour governments without resolution so its not really a party issue but a deep state issue.
@@elbmw thank you for your comments, I rather believe is a cultural issue than a political issue. No matter if you are a Tory or Labor, Parthenon sculptors are undoubtedly Greek and so must be returned. Think for example queens/kings jewels being looted and suddenly the Greek state has them “legally” in their possession! Wouldn’t the britons campaign for their return to Tower Bridge?
@@nicjohnson1496 Its not just because they are Greek that they should be returned. it is because they are part of a building that is now bare without them. Its also as you say a cultural issue but then who is responsible for cultural issues if not the culture secretary and hence the government? Well, I'm not sure about your analogy as there are claims by India about some of the crown jewels but I think a more fitting analogy might be Big Ben being kept in Greek museum with a gaping hole left in Westminster Tower. I am sure that the UK would want it back and they would be right, irrespective of any supposed nefarious purchase by Greece.
We are a signatory to The Venice Charter Article 7 States the following " A monument is inseparable from the history to which it bears witness and from the setting in which it occurs. The moving of all or part of a monument cannot be allowed. Why don't we abide by the treaties we sign.
@@British_Rogue Elgin bought them from the OTTOMANS. This is like saying, the one who steals is a thief but the one who supports thievery by buying from the thief is not a thief himself. No, both the direct thief as well as his customer are thieves, when they know where they come from.
The Elgin Marbles were legitimately bought from the government of the day, Local Greeks who at the time were deeply orthodox actively assisted in the removal and transportation of the statues they at the time saw as Pagan idolatry, The fact that due to interest from Western scholars the Greeks themselves started to look back at their ancient history and reassessed the value of the items is irrelevant, as for a loan of the statues the question is can the Greeks be trusted to give them back and the evidence so far would point to a hard no
The Parthenon/Elgin marbles were literally given to us, yet people claim they're stolen and demand the British Museum return them. Then you dig into that claim and on literally the first google result you learn that fallen marble statues were being burned to extract lime for building, so the British Ambassador requested permission to extract some and was granted it by the Ottoman Empire. He then funded shipping them to the UK himself. To say that they were stolen is ridiculous.
@@francesco245 I will so laugh when Brits become majority-minority!!! If might makes right according to your British logic, the immigrants being more mighty than you, manage to overthrow your demographics and deserve respect!!!
Imagine this: Battle of Britain going sideways, Germans occupy Britain, their ally Italy take some pieces of Big Ben back to Rome. They now belong to Italy, right? No?
Sunak was annoyed that Mitsotakis saw Starmer first. Secondly he is playing to the right wing of his party. Quite small minded for such an important subject. Let's see if he lasts 12 months. Mitsotakis will be around for another 4-8 years and he is a force to be reckoned.
I sympathise with our British friends for being embarrassed with their PM. It seems it is inevitable for people once in a while to elect a looser in to power. We had our share here in Greece with Tsipras for over four years. Sunal is a little rat who run back to his hole, lacking the balls to meet with PM MItsotakis. BTW the monument's name is the Parthenon Sculptures. If the word "Elgin" has to be included then the right name in the Parthenon Sculptures that got stolen and looted by Elgin"
It's not just that it's wrong to cut up monuments and remove parts of them from their location. The Partenon was erected to commemorate Athenian victories in the Grecopersian wars. Starting with the battle of Marathon with the fallen Athenians in that battle depicted in broken Parthenon freezes now separated and displayed in the British museum. The equivalent for the British people would be something like the cenotaph. If a British person told me that they would have no issue with breaking it up and putting the broken parts of the cenotaph on display in some faraway land's museum, I wouldn't believe them. Or say Hitler occupying France breaking up the Arc de Triomphe and selling its bits to Americans. Especially for the Parthenon and what it stands for, not just for the monument's artistic value as a whole but for what it means and what it is, it's as bad as it gets. So many dont understand what they re even talking about...
The Parthenon/Elgin marbles, People claim they're stolen and demand the British Museum return them. Then you dig into that claim and on literally the first google result you learn that fallen marble statues were being burned to extract lime for building, so the British Ambassador requested permission to extract some and was granted it by the Ottoman Empire. He then funded shipping them to the UK himself. To say that they were stolen is ridiculous.
@@Finnbobjimbob The Ottomans have about as much to do with Greeks and Parthenon as Hitler with Arc de Triomphe. Ignorant comment. But Hitler would agree with you. How does that make you feel?
Pride pride pride, the face in which the government cannot hide. Smh really. Give back what was taken, and help your citizens. That is what the government should do.
@BBC News, why repeat the term 'Elgin Marbles'? The equivalent would be naming individual Benin Bronzes after the British officers who brought them back to London after destroying the city of Benin and murdering its people. This term 'Elgin Marbles' not only has deeply violent and colonial roots, but its ongoing usage perpetuates the entitlement and sense of ownership that the British Museum likes to broadcast. They are the Parthenon Marbles. They were stolen from Greece and should be returned. Any argument to the contrary conveniently sidesteps (yet again) Britain's role in looting the world of its cultural treasures.
No, it rightfully belongs to us. The Parthenon/Elgin marbles were literally given to us, yet people claim they're stolen and demand the British Museum return them. Then you dig into that claim and on literally the first google result you learn that fallen marble statues were being burned to extract lime for building, so the British Ambassador requested permission to extract some and was granted it by the Ottoman Empire. He then funded shipping them to the UK himself. To say that they were stolen is ridiculous. Do some actual research so you have an informed opinion instead of spreading misinformation.
@@FinnbobjimbobIt Doesn't Belong To You And You Know It But You Are Just Too Arrogant To Admit That This Marbles Doesn't Belong To Your Country Britain
The Parthenon/Elgin marbles were literally given to us, yet people claim they're stolen and demand the British Museum return them. Then you dig into that claim and on literally the first google result you learn that fallen marble statues were being burned to extract lime for building, so the British Ambassador requested permission to extract some and was granted it by the Ottoman Empire. He then funded shipping them to the UK himself. To say that they were stolen is ridiculous.
@@Finnbobjimbob First of all, Elgin didn't create the statues so you shouldn't call them as "Elgin marbles". Feidias created them. Secondly we would never ever sell our heritage even if we were starving. These statues are part of one of the most beautiful monument in the wold. You have stolen them and accept it.
Key word being “ancestors” . Napoleon IV died a British lieutenant with Queen Victoria attending his funeral. Now compare that to his great grandfather 😂
The Parthenon/Elgin marbles were literally given to us, yet people claim they're stolen and demand the British Museum return them. Then you dig into that claim and on literally the first google result you learn that fallen marble statues were being burned to extract lime for building, so the British Ambassador requested permission to extract some and was granted it by the Ottoman Empire. He then funded shipping them to the UK himself. To say that they were stolen is ridiculous. Do some actual research so you have an informed opinion instead of spreading misinformation.
No one gave the marbles to Elgin. All he had was a firman (Sultan's authorization) to excavate the Acropolis.The marbles were on the Parthenon,' facade. It was pure looting. He damaged both the building and the sculptures, two of which fall from and smashed into pieces when the crane failed. Further damage was done when the boat transporting the sculptures sank in a port and the marbles remained in the bottom of the sea until Elgin got them back to the surface. Even further damage was dome when the Britrish Museum tried to remove all remaining traces of polychromy with metallic brushes because their idea of Greek sculpture was that it had to be pure white... @@Finnbobjimbob
What an utterly, utterly cowardly act (no surprise!) by Sunak!!! Does he recognise that he has neither the intellect nor the experience to defend a point??? Too incompetent to face the tasks that he was NOT elected to face! He is VERY overdue, to be an ex-prime minister - and one of the worst - to boot!
@@aokiaoki4238 He doesn't have to be British to think that things that don't belong to them do belong to them, but it evidently helps. He never said he was British, he said it was a classic characteristic, just like a classic characteristic of Greeks is democratic values. Are you Greek because you live in a democratic country? Pedantry won't get anyone anywhere.
Yeah damn right, Greeks are such thieves. They should hand over the rest of the marbles to Britain so we can complete the set in the British Museum. Might as well sign some more arms deals with Turkey while we are at it.
It was not about the Parthenon Sculptures, Britain knows the Greeks say this for over 40 years now. Something else is behind and Britain already picked side, they prefer to side with the allies of the Nazis at WW2, the Turks.
I find it incredible the Sunak has cancelled a meeting with a Greek diplomat over a set of marbles, yet he embraces an Israeli politician after 20,000 civilians are killed.
Hey British citizens, in case you wonder why you're prime Minister offended us i ensure you it ain't for the marbles but for the 40 brand new eurofighters and corvettes that he will provide to Turkey to assist the upcoming invasion to Greek Islands. The betrayal he is about to commit is unspeakable. I hope there are sane voices there that will prevent this -
The United Kingdom is selling to Turkey because they know Erdogan is bluffing. Ironically when the United Kingdom didn’t sell to Turkey, which was the Ottoman Empire at the time, it contributed to them declaring war on the allies in WW1 There would be no betrayal because the UK is not on Turkeys side in this matter. The UK would simply be fighting a war against the same equipment they sold to Turkey, if that makes sense.
@curls9032 Hell yes, each and every year. If last time you got updated on Greek economy was 2012 do your homework, introduce yourself to 2023 and you might have something actually smart and tangible to say.
Frankly, these sculptures were *looted* from Greece in 1811/12 under the (debatable) permission of the Ottoman officials who were in authority in Athens at that time. It's more than high time that the sculptures were returned to their rightful home from which they were *vandalised* so long ago. Empires come and empires go and that includes both the Ottoman and British varieties so let's do the decent thing and if needs be, make some good copies and send the originals back. Just saying and not hating OK.
Plundered most of the world. Including India, the country that Sunaks family come from. Give the Greeks back their Marbles. And while you are at it, all the rest of the loot that was stolen from other nations.
Not so much about the marbles anymore. The diplomatic tension is not about the marbles. Its about being rude and cancelling the last minute a fixed meeting in order to snubb a pm of a European ally. As a Greek i don't believe that is a matter of serious tension between countries but a matter of an inexperienced and rather thick PM thinking that it is ok to offend a PM of another country for internal politics. Not very smart but harmless regarding the relationship between the countries. We have had our share of clown politicians so Sunak is under that same category, so no biggy
Modern Greeks have nothing to do with Ancient Greece. Therefore these artifacts belong to all Humans - and the British Museum is the safest place on Earth to keep them. Same goes for Roman or Ancient Egyption etc artifacts.
@@nineteen8026Your argument is riddled with ethnocentricity. Please apply the same logic to Stone Henge. Why have the British fought tooth and nail to replace all of its removed pieces and other stone monoliths that were removed from their place of origin. Doesn't your logic negate their claims as well? Also, the pieces have been substantially damaged since their removal and various transports. How can you claim that Britian would protect them better? Have you compared them to ones that were not removed? Or have you heard of the Benin Bronzes? Same story but some ended up in German museums. The German's returned them politely but Britian still refuses. Some would argue German museums might preserve them better than Britain.
The Parthenon/Elgin marbles were literally given to us, yet people claim they're stolen and demand the British Museum return them. Then you dig into that claim and on literally the first google result you learn that fallen marble statues were being burned to extract lime for building, so the British Ambassador requested permission to extract some and was granted it by the Ottoman Empire. He then funded shipping them to the UK himself. To say that they were stolen is ridiculous.
This is disgraceful, are the British proud that this man represents them? Hopefully the Greek government will bring things to the international court of Hauge, take the marbles back as well as compensation for the profits of that museum.
Yeah some of the reason for breaking the meeting this late may be that this discussion overlaps with the UK's handling of the Hague convention addressing the legality of this issue as well as another hot topic these days...UKs support of Israeli violations of the same convention regarding Palestine. If they agree to the legality of of Greece's claim but continue to disregard the same convention in regards to Palestinian claims it would only add fuel to those flames and display the hypocrisy of their foreign policy even more.
Elgin bought them legally from the Ottomans- Greeks were destroying others thought they were pagan - deeply orthodox Christian and didn’t appreciate them.
@@julianaagu6215 That’s not true because Greece has the remaining marbles that Elgin didn’t steal. And why do you think an occupying power has the right to sell off the treasure of conquered nations?
@@julianaagu6215 Are you aware the Parthenon still stands in Athens? Or are you just repeating the rhetoric of people who are desperately trying to justify the possession of something that is not theirs?
@@ntlrdm I am aware and also Elgin saved the marbles from possible destruction at that time - they were not appreciated by by many Greeks and Ottomans.
Calling the stolen and butchered Parthenon sculptures "Elgin Marbles" is like having a bloke named Marc cut your vintage E Type in two, steal the second half and then trying to get it registered as a Mark 2
I'm Greek. England left Europe, doesn't give back any statues, what's going on there? Don't you like friends? I love England and I don't believe that people there are thieves. Tell to your minister to give back our stuff please and tell your politicians to change direction, I don't see England going well if they continue like this.
This is a kind comment.. but England is only one part of the United Kingdom. The European Union was uniquely different to the UK than other countries, not because of arrogance, but because of the Commonwealth and British Empire. The EU forced Britain to abandon these ties, meanwhile other countries were simply strengthening ties they already had, if that makes sense It’s worth noting the British view of Greece, only 3% view it negatively, making Greece the most liked country in the United Kingdom. The way I see it, the marbles are a very solid exchange considering the London Protocol and lives lost in WW2. You could take cities from Greece and it would still be left with a richer history than most of the world. I don’t see how marbles changes this
The whole of the UK isn't going well at all, it is diabolical at present and looks like it's set to get even worse. I mean when we have a government that is supporting Genocide I dread to think what their next vile step will be 😢
@@curls9032Judging an ethical dilima with your personal preferences and equating irrelevant things shows a lot about yourself. Where are you from by the way?
@@XXXTENTAClON227 I don't like seperation. Specially when England was part of Eu. I think they could help with crysis but instead they chose to leave eu unfurtunately. I think it was a good opportunity for the prime minister of England to show some friendship to the most liked country in UK Greece but once again they lost the opportunity and he did the opposite, declining even talking with our prime minister of Greece. I dont understand how this will help the future of England specially now with the crysis and the war. I don't like how things are going and I wanted to share my opinion. Thank you very much for reading my comment.
I believe that Sunak was looking for a pretense as to call off the meeting without prior notice for two reasons. The first one is the possibility of the UK concluding a deal with Turkey to sell them a batch of Eurofighter jets since the US is unwilling to sell the F16 or F35 they so desperately need, therefore the UK while Sunak is in charge needs to distance itself from Greece a bit. The second one is Mitsotakis meeting Starmer few hours before Sunak which made the latter lash out in an effort to appeal to some nationalist voters.
Without Great Britain's help during the Second World War, you would now write in German. Learn the history not just the bloody books of Ellinikis Istorias
The marbles are ancient Greek treasures not the UK's.
@@refittoro5282nonsense
@@refittoro5282new mythology monster 👹 creativity KAPTAGON METHAMPHETAMINE OPIUM valium mixture with heroin and cocaine STEROİDS
Probably because you are not able to provide you own cultural monuments
Vardarkians Skopje and Arnavut..
😅
@user-yo4pm2jv5xΑλβανιαρης Πρέπει Να Είναι
Elgin stole them
@@refittoro5282 what the f#ck is pellazgjin not even google gives me proper answers
Rishi, Socrates said. WHERE THERE IS SHAME THERE IS FEAR, AND WHERE THERE FEAR THERE IS SHAME. You simply didn't know what to answer to the Greek PM.
Nice one
Just return their stolen goods and show some dignity.. stop trying to further mess up relations with the EU.. totally the wrong time for it
You should be returned there instead of the Elgin Marbles.
The Elgin Marbles were legitimately bought from the government of the day, Local Greeks who at the time were deeply orthodox actively assisted in the removal and transportation of the statues they at the time saw as Pagan idolatry, The fact that due to interest from Western scholars the Greeks themselves started to look back at their ancient history and reassessed the value of the items is irrelevant, as for a loan of the statues the question is can the Greeks be trusted to give them back and the evidence so far would point to a hard no
The Parthenon/Elgin marbles were literally given to us, yet people claim they're stolen and demand the British Museum return them. Then you dig into that claim and on literally the first google result you learn that fallen marble statues were being burned to extract lime for building, so the British Ambassador requested permission to extract some and was granted it by the Ottoman Empire. He then funded shipping them to the UK himself. To say that they were stolen is ridiculous. Do some actual research so you have an informed opinion instead of spreading misinformation.
@@Finnbobjimbob The british koolaid flows freely I see. It's ok, you can keep the marbles. And everything else you have stolen from everyone else. We get it, you have no history or culture. You are nothing. You even let your rejects revolt and become a powerful nation. You are the biggest laughing stock of the world.
@@Finnbobjimbob i dont know if you are aware of Ottoman occupation of Greece? Imagine France occupies UK and sells queens palace and Stonehenge stones to Spain. would you like it?
Whatever you want to call them they are of Greek origin and should be returned.
The Parthenon/Elgin marbles were literally given to us, yet people claim they're stolen and demand the British Museum return them. Then you dig into that claim and on literally the first google result you learn that fallen marble statues were being burned to extract lime for building, so the British Ambassador requested permission to extract some and was granted it by the Ottoman Empire. He then funded shipping them to the UK himself. To say that they were stolen is ridiculous.
With the same logic Herman Goering was the legitimate owner of whatever piece of art the collaborationist governments of Europe let him take away. @@Finnbobjimbob
It'"s an outrageous lie to pretend that those marbles were fallen. Elgin removed them from the Parthenon damaging many on them in the process as well as the building itself. The looter payed for the extraction and the transportation. So what? Does not make him a lesser looter. Return them to Athens before some blue haired UK lunatic decide they are a symbol of white supremacy and attempt the smash the patriarchy and the sculptures in the same gesture @@Finnbobjimbob
@@FinnbobjimbobIf a thief sales you something you still dont own it because it was stolen above all.
@@Finnbobjimbob Elgin stated that he had permission from the Ottoman officials who ruled Athens at the time. This claim has been disputed. For “Ottoman officials” you could substitute “invading army.”
"Rich man refuses to give back stolen things" There, fixed it for you.
The Parthenon/Elgin marbles were literally given to us, yet people claim they're stolen and demand the British Museum return them. Then you dig into that claim and on literally the first google result you learn that fallen marble statues were being burned to extract lime for building, so the British Ambassador requested permission to extract some and was granted it by the Ottoman Empire. He then funded shipping them to the UK himself. To say that they were stolen is ridiculous.
It’s disputed that it was stolen
@@Finnbobjimbobit was stolen like most things British people take
@@freddywilsonRead his reply. It’s not.
Whilst he speaks in the English dialect, simply laughable.
TBH im not surprised by this bold move from Richie, hes an embaresment.....
That joker will be moving house next year!!!
Sunak does understand that Greece has veto power on EU decisions right? Like a potential agreement on immigration? Or trade, or anything? I dont mean that you have to accept whatever the other side want, but proper etiquette is not that hard.
It's funny how they named the Marbles after their thief.
They didn't. The British call them the elgin marbles. To greeks they are part of the parthanon marbles
@@professorminstrels6460
It's ours, therefore "Elgin marbles" is the correct and proper name for them. The Greeks can call it whatever the hell they want, it's not theirs and never will be 🤗
@boringmonkey6958 d#@$ ya (rep. *D* with *f*)
Just give them back! They do not belong to us..why can our government never do the right thing?
The EU said the same to Greece about the Billions they owed them. Sent in the bailiffs n everything 😂
@@vibes292 If you bought something from ebay which was stolen, it would have to be returned. They are not ours and were stolen by "Lord Elgin".
@@curls9032 funny but Greece has been out of crisis and made early payment of all of its debts. Greece has paid all its loans up to 2 years in advance. Greece was scummed enough with the crisis with a purpose of lowering its negotiating power, now things have changed.
@@curls9032 Always an idiot, you bailed your British, French and German banks not the people of Greece. It's not even a joke anymore
If you had been to the Parthenon I think you would agree that is where they belong not on display here in isolation
Hello, I am Greek (living in Greece). Apart from the question whether the marbles should returned or not (remember we are talking about reunification not just a standalone piece of art) , cancelling the scheduled meeting when the Greek PM (whoever that is) is already in the UK is of great INSULT to Greece and the Greek citizens.
I am amazed how low UK has gone during my lifetime
The Greeks broke promises not being the issue up. Disrespecting the host country and breaking promises is very bad.
@@roberw1912 Disrespecting who exactly? Only a thief would feel disrespected
@@roberw1912That's a lie but what to expect by thieves.
@@roberw1912 'The Greeks broke promises' ? What are you talking about?? All the Greek PM did was respond to a BBC question and repeat his country's 2 century year old stance on the return of the marbles. No serious government official rejects a historic ally's head of state on the grounds of 'broken promises'..this isn't a middle school personal quarrel.. All Sunak had to do was respectfully publicly disagree and repeat his country's 2 century year old equivalent stance without breaking basic diplomatic etiquette and hindering the relationship between two friendly countries.
@@hellaseurope2012 the reason the British feel disrespected is that get accused of being thieves when they legally purchased the item. Greece the country was not even in existence in 1810. The marbles would have been lost if it was not Elgin and the reason Greece is interested in them so much is because they are the best reserved part of the Parthenon.
Give them back. They were never “ours"
Amen
🍩
They're ours now.
So, no.
The Elgin Marbles were legitimately bought from the government of the day, Local Greeks who at the time were deeply orthodox actively assisted in the removal and transportation of the statues they at the time saw as Pagan idolatry, The fact that due to interest from Western scholars the Greeks themselves started to look back at their ancient history and reassessed the value of the items is irrelevant, as for a loan of the statues the question is can the Greeks be trusted to give them back and the evidence so far would point to a hard no
The Parthenon/Elgin marbles, People claim they're stolen and demand the British Museum return them. Then you dig into that claim and on literally the first google result you learn that fallen marble statues were being burned to extract lime for building, so the British Ambassador requested permission to extract some and was granted it by the Ottoman Empire. He then funded shipping them to the UK himself. To say that they were stolen is ridiculous.
Rishi Sunak's decision to cancel the meeting with PM Mitsotakis is nothing short of a diplomatic fiasco, showcasing blatant disrespect not only to Greece, a steadfast ally, but also to the fundamental principles of cultural heritage and international relations. This move reeks of unprofessionalism and undermines the UK's credibility on the global stage.
The Elgin Marbles, or as rightfully called, the Parthenon Sculptures, are emblematic of Greek heritage and civilization. Their forced separation from their homeland is a historical injustice that demands rectification. Christopher Hitchens, a towering intellect and moral compass among many others, vehemently advocated for their return to Greece, recognizing this as a matter of ethical imperative and historical correctness. The UK's stubborn refusal to engage in constructive dialogue, now punctuated by Sunak's ill-advised cancellation, is a slap in the face to these values.
It's time the UK government realized that cultural artifacts are not trophies of colonial conquest but treasured symbols of a nation's identity and history. This is about respecting and acknowledging the cultural and historical significance of these artifacts to their homeland. Sunak's decision is a regressive step, perpetuating outdated imperialistic attitudes and ignoring the voice of reason and justice.
The Elgin Marbles belong in Greece, in their original context, reunited with their remaining counterparts. Any other stance is more than just a diplomatic error; it's a moral failure.
Shows the face of “westerners”. Allies ? Just a joke the entire European continent.
I disagree. I think Rishi was right to cancel the meeting with the Greek PM. The Greek PM was unprofessional in discussing something in public that he should have discussed in private with Rishi.
@@zorrodmno more private discussion thieves
All that is going on in the world and Greece focuses on this. If your country actually contributed some money into the EU and NATO more people would care.
@@zorrodm 100% agree.
It belongs to Greece.
How did you guys went from Thatcher to that guy is beyond me
It is shameful and disrespectful to the marbles created by the ancient Greeks Where it will be called by the name from him were stolen. They are called the Parthenon marbles
If you want them come get them 🐣🐔😆
They were not stolen, they were legitimately bought from the Greece by Lord Elgin. Under the Ottoman Empire Greek temples and treasures were being destroyed. Elgin was an art lover and hated seeing history being destroyed. So in 1810 he bought some of the artefacts, and had them shipped to England to save them. The final shipment of the Elgin Marbles reached London in 1812, and in 1816 the entire collection was bought from Elgin by the Crown State of England for the sum of £35,000, and given to the British Museum. One could argue, if it were not for Elgin these treasures would have been destroyed hundreds of years ago! Don’t brandish the British as thieves when it’s a total lie, and a little bit of research by you, would have made you better informed
@@vickiebirt7489They would have not been destroyed. Thats absolute BS
@@vickiebirt7489Well they definitely did steal a lot of stuff. That's not even a debate.
@@vickiebirt7489'These diamonds is legit mine, innit? I bought em off a geezer dahn pub fer a tenner.'
As is customary for British politicians, he is embarrassing.
If u r a british, u should be embarrassed after all the looting 😂
@@universaltruth9988your country is failure
@@universaltruth9988awwwww piss off ,we own what we own , tough shite
@@Graham-o5k That joke of a country made you human ape
@@universaltruth9988 You should be embarrassed for losing.
First, the dude in number 10 is a caretaker PM as he is not elected. Second, the marbles should be returned as they are nothing to do with Britain and are in fact stolen. I am British and can trace my family history to before 1700 in (almost) the same place I live now and I have no idea why we have those treasured items which mean nothing to us.
LEVERAGE!
(Pathetic isn't it?)
Those marbles given to British museum by ottoman Turks as a gift,
It wasn't stolen from Greeks
@@erolarslan4988Do you think before you write? Are u dumb?
@@erolarslan4988Wasn't the entire country of Turkiye stolen from the Greeks and Armenians?
@@thorkushari4027 Greeks have nothing to do with Türkiye,
Before Turks Turkiye was part of east Rome empire later Byzantine as for Armenians they were stateless people for last 1500 years until first war world
Declining a meeting of a European ally because they stated the position they've always had, to reclaim their cultural heritage, is nothing sort of ridiculous. After bringing Cameron back in the place of their one honest politician, this government seems to be as clumsy as humanly possible.
I think Rishi is just acknowledging he has probably already lost the #GreekCypriot vote. He may not need them, to be fair…
The Greek sculptures have been a contentious issue for years.
@@Rara-Land. They've never been a reason for a meeting between PMs to be cancelled, this is ridiculous.
Yawn .why waste your time talking about marbles that was given
@@colonelsmith7757why would you have a meeting to talk about marbles ,what a waste of time that would if been
English people are smart and logical nation never forget our friendship..sunak will not be here in a few years our friendship will be
they are not smart
The argument that the Parthenon marbles were saved from disaster doesn’t exist, as you can see with a visit to the Acropolis museum. What Elgin didn’t take, is preserved till now, in a better condition (without the cleaning mistakes of the British museum’s staff in the 1930s). There, you can clearly see the parts that were saved from Elgin’s vandalism, shining under the Athenian light, waiting to be reunited with the remaining parts from the British museum. It is heartbreaking to see the five Caryatids from Erechtheion standing impressively, waiting for the sixth one which is still in the British museum. It is not just a demand for return. It is a way of expressing respect for the Parthenon, one of the greatest human achievements, and for the values it represents. If this is not an action of a civilized country, then what is it?
Eisai ntropi file😅
@@Chris.Davidson99836 kai esi akoma megaliteri karagiozi
As a Greek conservative, I hope for a Labour win already
Οι Εργατικοί Θα Μας Τα Επιστρέψουν Οι Βρετανοί Είναι Κλέφτες
It's time for the Parthenons marbles to be returned and Cyprus to be resolved. The UK has been sh""ting on Greeks for centuries
UK Prime Minister making the UK proud on the international stage again and making friends and influencing people ... what a disaster the UK government is ...
ottoman and elgin stole 2 ships with marbles and only one ship reach UK the other one is 1000 meters in bottom of the sea near crete . all those marbles elgin not taken for UK but for himself... and after his death given to the british museum which is private! it is not public museum. if the marbles was given the ownership will belong to UK and not to a private company (museum).
Do you think all of the UK is concerned with the marbles not even in the front pages. Seems Greeks lately think to much of themselves
@@tomzamp8547 M8 all of Europe as well as British media have been writing headlines about this for three consecutive days.
@@colonelsmith7757 no one cares
do you concened for 6 million visas sunak announced to give to india in 2024!!!!@@tomzamp8547
The Parthenon sculptures, also known as the Elgin Marbles, were taken from the Parthenon temple at the Acropolis in Athens. They should be returned to Greece immediately!!
The Parthenon sculptures are stolen. They must be returned to Greece!! It is our heritage!!!!
What sacrifice?
Anything like the sacrifice the UK suffered liberating Greece from the Nazis. I believe the marbles should be returned, but your choice to exaggerate gives reason to doubt sincerity. They should be returned for one reason, the UK didn't buy them, therefore they do not belong to us.
The Elgin Marbles were legitimately bought from the government of the day, Local Greeks who at the time were deeply orthodox actively assisted in the removal and transportation of the statues they at the time saw as Pagan idolatry, The fact that due to interest from Western scholars the Greeks themselves started to look back at their ancient history and reassessed the value of the items is irrelevant, as for a loan of the statues the question is can the Greeks be trusted to give them back and the evidence so far would point to a hard no
The Parthenon/Elgin marbles were literally given to us, yet people claim they're stolen and demand the British Museum return them. Then you dig into that claim and on literally the first google result you learn that fallen marble statues were being burned to extract lime for building, so the British Ambassador requested permission to extract some and was granted it by the Ottoman Empire. He then funded shipping them to the UK himself. To say that they were stolen is ridiculous.
@@Finnbobjimbob
They weren't given by Greece, which was under occupation by the Ottaman Empire. They were taken, much like the art taken during the Nazi occupational years, or China's historic, cultural art, during their occupation.
@@Finnbobjimbob is what you call an idiot who copy pastes the same nonsense on every comment, and then upvotes himself? 🤣🤣🤣
It’s simple. Using high tech make 100% accurate copies and send the originals home. The public will not notice the difference.
I agree! They can do that today
Yes, you actually copy of real you
@@plejady 50/50 Copy & Real 😃👍🏻
They've already done this in Greece. There are many great replicas in the Museum of the Acropolis, so they could go ahead and just start trading the replicas for the originals.
@@craven5328 Yes! They can Copy them so exact these days. Share them between the two. It would be a Win Win situation for both…
The More Eyes that get to see these wonderful Sculptures, the more Civilization wins. By having them at Both, the most eyes will get to see them! 👍🏻
In saying that: I don’t think that the Sculptures had anything to do with the cancellation of their Bilateral Meeting. There are deeper shenanigans at play here. 👍🏻
The Parthenon marbles, as they are more accurately called, obviously belong on the Parthenon. Why should you name them after the person who stole them?
The Parthenon/Elgin marbles were literally given to us, yet people claim they're stolen and demand the British Museum return them. Then you dig into that claim and on literally the first google result you learn that fallen marble statues were being burned to extract lime for building, so the British Ambassador requested permission to extract some and was granted it by the Ottoman Empire. He then funded shipping them to the UK himself. To say that they were stolen is ridiculous.
@@Finnbobjimbob Exactly, they were 'given' by the Ottomans who had no right to them either.
@@robmaslen6446*_Spoils of War._*
They became the Ottoman Empire's property. Therefore, they were the Ottoman Empire's to gift to whomever they desired.
@@British_Rogue that's childish nonsense. They obviously belong with the Parthenon, in the beautiful museum the Greeks have built for them.
@@British_Rogueso if lets say the french come , conquer your country , and give pieces of Stonehenge to Germans as a gift , then with this logic , these pieces of Stonehenge belong to germans. For you this is both legal and moral i guess
We weren’t embarrassed while stealing them. Why should we feel any shame in denying their return? How can something created in Greece in antiquity be called the ‘Elgin Marbles’…
The Elgin Marbles were legitimately bought from the government of the day, Local Greeks who at the time were deeply orthodox actively assisted in the removal and transportation of the statues they at the time saw as Pagan idolatry, The fact that due to interest from Western scholars the Greeks themselves started to look back at their ancient history and reassessed the value of the items is irrelevant, as for a loan of the statues the question is can the Greeks be trusted to give them back and the evidence so far would point to a hard no
The Parthenon/Elgin marbles were literally given to us, yet people claim they're stolen and demand the British Museum return them. Then you dig into that claim and on literally the first google result you learn that fallen marble statues were being burned to extract lime for building, so the British Ambassador requested permission to extract some and was granted it by the Ottoman Empire. He then funded shipping them to the UK himself. To say that they were stolen is ridiculous.
The sellers were not the owners therefore did not possess any right to sell. Therefore they were robbers which makes the holders of the marbles today a fence since they keep them for profit.
@@chk6194 They were the owners, Greece belonged to the Ottoman Empire at the time
@@jonsouth1545 sorry to say but you either don't know or don't tell the full story. Elgin committed a larceny or theft (after 1968) by taking the marbles. He got paid for the Parthenon marbles, sold them the British museum-government to pay his £18000 debt. Another irony is that he only got £17000 for them. Even his wife Mary Nisbet left him because of his financial problems, not able to construct the mansion he promised. Also sad that he damaged all the remaining Parthenon Marbles. This also shows he didn't care about the history and the importance of Parthenon but was only interested in making money as he was skint. :)
Make a copy, give them back
Exactly! 🤷🏻♂️
Give them the copy.
The Elgin Marbles were legitimately bought from the government of the day, Local Greeks who at the time were deeply orthodox actively assisted in the removal and transportation of the statues they at the time saw as Pagan idolatry, The fact that due to interest from Western scholars the Greeks themselves started to look back at their ancient history and reassessed the value of the items is irrelevant, as for a loan of the statues the question is can the Greeks be trusted to give them back and the evidence so far would point to a hard no
@@jonsouth1545
That is an absolute Lie, or at least a distorted representation. Muslim albanians were damaging the monuments, just like they damage your country today (heard you had a recent influx of them). They were always the pawns of the turkoarabs. Once the Greeks Freed themselves, they began a massive program in conservation of all Greek Antiquities in & around the Parthenon & the general Acropolis area. Kyriakos Pittakis, a distant relative of mine, was the one in charge of much of the work & preservation (he went through hell). Sources have tried to distort his accounts, but my family has passed down the story about the "Columns for Cannonballs". The story goes:
".. And yet this energy, so characteristic of the ethos of the Greek revolutionaries, is overcome by an unbelievable and yet true incident that is mentioned in the funeral logos of Kyriakos Pittakis, related to the siege of the Acropolis of 1822. When the Greek besiegers were informed that the Turks were chipping the ancient buildings to remove the lead that exists in the joints of the stones, after the suggestion of Pittakis, they sent bullets to the Turks to have them stop the destruction .."
^^^Some British sources have tried to hide this story & say that the Greeks were shooting indiscriminately. That is simply a forgery & a LIE. The Greeks, despite their fallen state & lack if education, understood that these monuments were sacred & proceeded to do the unthinkable, provide the their own Enemies with BULLETS to use AGAINST THEMSELVES, so that the Monuments could be salvaged. This Family story has been passed down from my distant ancestor. Many others have confirmed it, but Propaganda from the other-side tries to use Forgeries to deny it, to justify their claims of course.
You must admit, that is SIMPLY EPIC. Just hearing that bit of History reveals who they truly belong to..👍🏻
@@tastypymp1287 No, split it! 😃
Win Win. And no more stealing from now on. Also, quit your dealings with the turds, the same cl0wns that promote the islamo-terrorist takeover of your country. WAKE UP 👍🏻
A thief knows when to run away
Funny and Soo true 😊
Rishi Sunak is definitely running away.
The Parthenon/Elgin marbles were literally given to us, yet people claim they're stolen and demand the British Museum return them. Then you dig into that claim and on literally the first google result you learn that fallen marble statues were being burned to extract lime for building, so the British Ambassador requested permission to extract some and was granted it by the Ottoman Empire. He then funded shipping them to the UK himself. To say that they were stolen is ridiculous.
@@FinnbobjimbobDude, you spam that comment like there is no tomorrow. Bot.
@@hammer3721A lot of people seem to be in need of learning the information.
Not sure what's more ridiculous, two heads of government arguing about sculptures or the Brits refusing to give back what is part of Greek heritage.
Would you like the world to hand back anything related to British heritage? No...British heritage is awfully out of fashion in the U.K.
We should hand them back to the Turks in exchange for a refund.
@@joe2791990Turkey established in 1920, you mean the Ottomans? First you d have to find the recipe of course...
@@joe2791990 Yes why just take a huge loss?
The Elgin Marbles were legitimately bought from the government of the day, Local Greeks who at the time were deeply orthodox actively assisted in the removal and transportation of the statues they at the time saw as Pagan idolatry, The fact that due to interest from Western scholars the Greeks themselves started to look back at their ancient history and reassessed the value of the items is irrelevant, as for a loan of the statues the question is can the Greeks be trusted to give them back and the evidence so far would point to a hard no
It’s long past time for the marbles to return to Greece.
Bollox
What was the deadline?
The Elgin Marbles were legitimately bought from the government of the day, Local Greeks who at the time were deeply orthodox actively assisted in the removal and transportation of the statues they at the time saw as Pagan idolatry, The fact that due to interest from Western scholars the Greeks themselves started to look back at their ancient history and reassessed the value of the items is irrelevant, as for a loan of the statues the question is can the Greeks be trusted to give them back and the evidence so far would point to a hard no
The Parthenon/Elgin marbles, People claim they're stolen and demand the British Museum return them. Then you dig into that claim and on literally the first google result you learn that fallen marble statues were being burned to extract lime for building, so the British Ambassador requested permission to extract some and was granted it by the Ottoman Empire. He then funded shipping them to the UK himself. To say that they were stolen is ridiculous.
What is wrong with a plaster or resin casting. Apparently the BM scraped off all the patina to 'clean' them between the Wats...criminal.
It's amazing how much the Tories want to hang on to something that 1) the British public doesn't care for and 2) has nothing to do with British history. Why are they so attached to someone else's family albums? It's a mystery.
It's amazing how many assumptions you make.
The British Museum is for World History. The safest place to keep artifacts for future generations of Earthlings to study and see.
The absolute irony in your words 'has nothing to do with British history'.
Maybe because the British Museum is the safest place for artifacts
Because we bought it with money
Isn’t it amazing that England is ok with having a Prime Minister who’s unelected?
Is England even a real country anymore?
Country is always real. Pity we can not say the same about you
@@plejady Lol, I'm Greek but I agree on this part. but onto the point of Marbles there is no doubt that thos Marbles should return home.
@@LEXOTANYL don't thing so , this interest its. a cover up to direct attention away from more important issues, it is a bit romantic and patriotic. fire to gain votes by Greek. gov, Marbles will stay and you have thousands. of it already
@@plejadyWe don't owe you our statues because we have thousands. Don't you have your own history and heritage?
@@user-pb3sd6wu7x with a little reasearch I made it makes ton of sense now, They are the far right nationalists who trully believe that their nation have more commons with ancient Greek than Greeks themselfs, thankfully we are talking for a minority of British citizens with this specific mindset so we should move on and be greatful for the ones with the modern ethic and judging capabilities instead of arguing with the few arrogants.
😂way to go Rishi! Ya really know how to make friends.
What have our friends ever done for us
Bare in mind, the Greeks SOLD these marbles , a British man spent his own money to get them back , if not for him and the museum no one would see these statues, ever
Besides Epstein and his friends
The Phidias Marbles actually , because Phidias created them and Elgin nicked them. These are not some sculptures , these are part of a temple, a place of worship, sacred artifacts, the temple itself.
The land was Ottoman at the time, and Elgin rescued them from a state of continuous destruction. Locals were using stone from it to build local structures. They wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for the efforts of Elgin.
@@_ArsNova Too much bs in a sentence. The rest of the temple is there, you can see it if you visit Athens. It wasn't used for building anyone's house 😂 The Greek PM should have taken some stones from Stonehedge and place them in Acropolis museum. Then we could talk on an even basis.
@@vibes292 The Greek nation existed during ottoman times even if reduced to dhimmitude. The ottomans were colonizers as well as occupiers in Greece. Hitler and his minions sacked all the museums they could in occupied Europe. Many pieces of art have been seized in random private collections after the war. According to your theory that's no big deal. Just second hand eBay stuff. Those sculptures are a part of a memorial monument to the Athenians fallen during the Persian wars. We Greeks will never stop fighting to get them back. Also Britain is not a safe place for any "white supremacist" sculpture so you better send then back kick before some blue haired lunatic smashes them in pieces with a hammer for political gain.
The Elgin Marbles were legitimately bought from the government of the day, Local Greeks who at the time were deeply orthodox actively assisted in the removal and transportation of the statues they at the time saw as Pagan idolatry, The fact that due to interest from Western scholars the Greeks themselves started to look back at their ancient history and reassessed the value of the items is irrelevant, as for a loan of the statues the question is can the Greeks be trusted to give them back and the evidence so far would point to a hard no
They were not stolen.
Today British prime minister seems to lost his marbles too. So welcome to our club Mr Sunak.
Who says they're the Marbles of Greece anyway?
Modern Greeks aren't the same people who lost them or who made them.
@@Patrick-y4d1zAll the logical people you stupid f*ck. Who's says that you're English? You're most likely an immigrant. Your prime minister is a coward.
@@Patrick-y4d1zaccording your logic there were no Jewish people too before 1948.
@@Patrick-y4d1zWe are the same people. Unlike those who built Stonehenge and were replaced by Germanic Anglo-Saxons.
@@JohnnyCash-wr5zl remind us how many times Greece has been conquered compared to Britain again? You were literally owned by Turkey just over 100 years ago, who also ethnically cleansed you, so no, you’re not the ‘same people’
Almost every BritIsh citizen would agree to return the Elgin Marbles back to Greece and the people. Regardless of any reason. They are GREEK, they belong to the country they were taken from. What ever the reason. It would be the best gesture from all the BritIsh people to return them to where they belong. ‘And a big thanks for letting us look after them’.
Nope we bought them the Greeks where destroying them
I don't agree either. 🇬🇧
unfortunately you never got rid of your racist past and for many of you you never will.But dont worry Paytime is coming soon for the U.K. Enjoy your islamic future.The jihadists are turning your country to Afganistan day by day.Birmingham is showing the way hahahahaha!@@BadlydrawnBen
@@BadlydrawnBen British barbaric spirit there I see, no matter how you try to portray yourselves as different from your ancestors, it always comes back to you. FYI, there was no Greek state back then, we were under Ottoman rule.
@@jimakisspd very barbaric legitimately buying ancient artefacts that where being crushed and burnt to make lime and then housing them in a museum for the world too see but if that's you're definition of barbaric il wear it
Great Britain acts so petty.. such a shame they don't do they right thing..
the greeks used them as concrete mix and we saved them from that,NOW they want them back cause of tourism bux....no.
@@random_an0n It's not cos of tourism, they've wanted them back for a long time. If you go to Greece you'll see the Parthenon hasn't been used for concrete mix but is still standing
@@random_an0n the rest of the temple is still standing . It wasn't used for anything.
lmao bruh they begun using it for concrete mix cause they was too poor to afford to buy the building materials,some of the wear on the ruins is caused from those days not errosion of time....only NOW in the age of trains planes and aeroplanes and cheap holidays and tourism NOW suddenly they care about their own history@@athlitikosomateioanth4567
yes it is! and parts of the ruins WAS used for concrete mix lmao
even the egyptians used the limestone covering of the pyramids to build old cairo
we preserved it,if you wanna see them go to london,this is not up for debate@@ntlrdm
How dare they consider loaning the marbles to Greece. You are loaning someone THEIR things. That is a slap in the face to Greeks and their proud history.
Britain's a laughing stock thanks to our last 5 PMs and Sunak wasted no time becoming such an embarrassment.
We should return the statues but if he disagrees he should have taken the meeting and made his position clear not cancel it like a petulant 8yr old.
I 100% agree with you, he could stand his possition, canceling the meeting is just disrespectful toward an allied nation.
If the shoe was on the other foot Britain would demand the artifacts to be returned.
and Britain would be right to demand it back so thanks for the sympathy
no we wouldnt cause we never used ancient statues as building material cause we was so broke and another country swooped in to preserve and keep them safe
@@random_an0n That's not true now though is it, it's their heritage not ours. Whatever the reason might have been in the past it no longer has the same meaning.
@@direnova6284 Check his comments on other videos, calling black guys "Tyrone's" and "bucks". Racist nobody pretending to be an official video game company. Don't take anything he says as serious or valid
@@vibes292that's because the romans and vikings didn't take anything since there was barely anything to take, in those days you brits were tribal wanderers living in hills and houses of hay, no statues or great arts to actually steal...
I am really wondering, are the British people proud of their PM? I would love to read comments from them.
Tbh as a Brit I like the monarchy more than the government it was a foolish move of the prime minister to cancel the visit over the sculptors
@@Britain1707thanks for the reply
Highly embarrassing! Most Brits think this government has totally lost the plot.
@@artbargestudio and aren´t you guys ashamed of your history?
@@jam6636 I'm not a nationalist. I did not choose where I was born. So no I'm not.
the most accurate description would be "marbles stolen by elgin".
But that isn’t true.
He bought them.
@@spitfirefrench
No, he didn't. That's like claiming the Swiss bought those paintings from the Nazis.
*saved
@@Mark-HaddowHe did. He actually did, and saved them from certain destruction.
Of course, being the fanatic that you are you'll never listen to reason.
The Parthenon/Elgin marbles were literally given to us, yet people claim they're stolen and demand the British Museum return them. Then you dig into that claim and on literally the first google result you learn that fallen marble statues were being burned to extract lime for building, so the British Ambassador requested permission to extract some and was granted it by the Ottoman Empire. He then funded shipping them to the UK himself. To say that they were stolen is ridiculous.
Too much drama for us to care here in Greece with how prices have skyrocketed , but Parthenon is probably our most important landmark. These arent just marbles. These are sculptures and the whole parthenon is a piece of art. Not any sculpture separately. So yeah , its like cutting Mona liza in half. The sculptures were taken in Ottoman times , in an empire not Greek that didnt care about the sculptures.Elgin bought these as if he was buying just marbles, in a very low price and he destroyed many of the as he was dragging them down from the temple. Lets be real , he didnt care to protect the marbles. He cared about making money. Technically british museum owns these , but its obvious that they should be here with the rest of the work of art , in a modern musem just under Parthenon. Britain has a rich history , they dont have to steal the others' one.
The Parthenon/Elgin marbles were literally given to us, yet people claim they're stolen and demand the British Museum return them. Then you dig into that claim and on literally the first google result you learn that fallen marble statues were being burned to extract lime for building, so the British Ambassador requested permission to extract some and was granted it by the Ottoman Empire. He then funded shipping them to the UK himself. To say that they were stolen is ridiculous.
@@Finnbobjimbob Well as I said British museum technically owns them , but essentially what's stealing or not is not always clear in these circumstances. First of all it was 2 centuries ago. As I said Parthenon is a whole work of art. It's an ancient temple. A building which was made to be exactly here in Athens. It's nothing like French owning Mona Liza which is Italian. Parts of one of the most renowned landmarks were taken apart from the rest of it. You claim to have saved them from Ottomans, and probably that's the case but there are many other sculptures that were saved and are exposed here. You saved it , well done. Why don't you let the world see it as a whole, as it's used to be? If you took these to protect them , then why don't you give them back now that can be safe here and be reunited with the rest? These sculptures have absolutely nothing to do with your cultural heritage. And you took them as part of a deal , with an empire that had also nothing to do with these. The people whose a huge part of their heritage was taken , couldn't be asked about it.
@@Finnbobjimbob Ok, by your logic, if your home starts burning and you abandon it, if firefighters come to put out the fires, they have every legitimate claim to take your TV, your pc, your sofas, tables and generally anything you may own and keep them for ''protection'' and never give them back to you.
Modern Greeks are not descended from Ancient Greece. A lot of immigration has occurred to Greece since Ancient times. So these artifacts are NOT the Heritage of todays Greece but are the world's Heritage. Same goes for Italians and Modern day Egyptions - Ancient Rome or Egypt are different people from todays Italians or Egyptions. So the British Museum or any other museum don't have to give up anything.
@@jimakisspd That’s not even close to the same thing
Ridiculous! Just give them back
But by that logic, every artefact in every museum on the planet which is not from the country in whose museum it’s in, needs to be ‘given back’.
@@titteryenot4524But it's not about any artefact, it's about the sculptures of the Parthenon, one of the most known and important landmarks not only of Greece, but of western civilization in general. You can't have half the Acropolis in Athens and the other half in London, it doesn't make sense.
@@titteryenot4524 How those artifacts ended up in a different country should be considered. In this case, the Brits stole them, so they should be given back.
@@a.a.1753 You didn’t address my point: if the Elgin Marbles must be returned, then so does every single artefact in every museum on this planet, if you’re being consistent. Why do the Elgin Marbles get a pass here?
@@jamescook9125 Lol. And how many artefacts in all the museums in the world were ‘stolen’? We’d be here until eternity if you’re going down that road! 🤣
The marbles should be returned to their rightful owners all theft must result in restitution and heavy fines or imprisonment applied. Sunack is now an accomplice in this theft.
They were not stolen
@@Bod11192 Oh yes they were.
Really appalled with British Prime Minister behavior yesterday, canceling a long scheduled meeting before the actual the meeting taking place. If Greece and Uk are allies as advertised and this is the behavior among members sharing the same values I can imagine how the British Prime Minister behavior would have be if they were enemies! British people have lost their credibility leaving Europe however what this tell us is that these values were long gone before leaving Europe. God save the king as he has a long work ahead of him with Torries in power.
@nicjohnson1496 I agree with the gist of your comment but would like to point out that the Parthenon sculptures issue has been around for decades and through a string of Labour governments without resolution so its not really a party issue but a deep state issue.
@@elbmw thank you for your comments, I rather believe is a cultural issue than a political issue. No matter if you are a Tory or Labor, Parthenon sculptors are undoubtedly Greek and so must be returned. Think for example queens/kings jewels being looted and suddenly the Greek state has them “legally” in their possession! Wouldn’t the britons campaign for their return to Tower Bridge?
@@nicjohnson1496 Its not just because they are Greek that they should be returned. it is because they are part of a building that is now bare without them. Its also as you say a cultural issue but then who is responsible for cultural issues if not the culture secretary and hence the government?
Well, I'm not sure about your analogy as there are claims by India about some of the crown jewels but I think a more fitting analogy might be Big Ben being kept in Greek museum with a gaping hole left in Westminster Tower. I am sure that the UK would want it back and they would be right, irrespective of any supposed nefarious purchase by Greece.
if we had our old values half the world would still be apart of our empire so it it really that bad
Sad, Seems pretty petty with so many other important issues in the world.Probably time to ask to copy them and return the originals .
We are a signatory to The Venice Charter Article 7 States the following " A monument is inseparable from the history to which it bears witness and from the setting in which it occurs. The moving of all or part of a monument cannot be allowed. Why don't we abide by the treaties we sign.
Cause they moved them from their original home making the British government at fault 😂
Too many problems
err cause it isnt applied post humerously,only from that date forward dummy
Have we ever?
The point is that a monument should remain in context. Dummy. Brian Livesey MSc. MRICS. MCIOB@@random_an0n
well that backfired for the UK quickly
Greece: Can we have our stuff back, please?
Britain: NO, WE STOLE THEM FAIR AND SQAURE!
HAHAHAHA
*bought them
@British_Rogue the irony of this is that one theif bought something from another thief without asking the owner if he wants it 😂
@@stathispap8291 If the "thief" bought something, then they're not a thief. They're a paying customer.
@@British_Rogue Elgin bought them from the OTTOMANS. This is like saying, the one who steals is a thief but the one who supports thievery by buying from the thief is not a thief himself. No, both the direct thief as well as his customer are thieves, when they know where they come from.
So sad to see such a childlike behavior
Its Greek history not British history. Stolen from Greece.
The Elgin Marbles were legitimately bought from the government of the day, Local Greeks who at the time were deeply orthodox actively assisted in the removal and transportation of the statues they at the time saw as Pagan idolatry, The fact that due to interest from Western scholars the Greeks themselves started to look back at their ancient history and reassessed the value of the items is irrelevant, as for a loan of the statues the question is can the Greeks be trusted to give them back and the evidence so far would point to a hard no
If you buy something from a thief that does not make you the rightful owner. Why has the paper work for this "purchase" has never been on display?????
The Parthenon/Elgin marbles were literally given to us, yet people claim they're stolen and demand the British Museum return them. Then you dig into that claim and on literally the first google result you learn that fallen marble statues were being burned to extract lime for building, so the British Ambassador requested permission to extract some and was granted it by the Ottoman Empire. He then funded shipping them to the UK himself. To say that they were stolen is ridiculous.
They wouldn’t exist if the Greeks kept them.
If you buy something from a thief with the intend to profit , as it happens, you are a fence.
@@Finnbobjimbobmaybe so, Greeks and humanity should give thanks for safe keeping, now they should be returned.
How dare you call them Elgin Marbles!!! They are called Parthenon sculptures and Elgin stole them. I expected more from the BBC. Shame.
*FINDERS KEEPERS, LOSERS WEEPERS.*
BOOHOO!
Cry me a river!
The marbles are ours to call however the fuck we like.
@@francesco245 I will so laugh when Brits become majority-minority!!! If might makes right according to your British logic, the immigrants being more mighty than you, manage to overthrow your demographics and deserve respect!!!
Imagine this: Battle of Britain going sideways, Germans occupy Britain, their ally Italy take some pieces of Big Ben back to Rome. They now belong to Italy, right? No?
I am absolutely stone crushed on How these beautiful Historical memories became political stepping stones.
Because theese are our soul.have you something other like Parthenon?
@@ΕλένηΤουλοπούλου Sure, the UK has stoned hedge. But who built it??? Definitely not the English.
@EveLord-hx1me More like just plain stoned.
Yes but they don’t belong to Britain. It’s not about politics , it’s about returning them to Greece. I had a Greek grandparent.
I thought Rishi had already lost his marbles.
It was never had any of his own. That's why he's so queen to keep those ones.
Are you aroused?
Sunak was annoyed that Mitsotakis saw Starmer first. Secondly he is playing to the right wing of his party. Quite small minded for such an important subject. Let's see if he lasts 12 months. Mitsotakis will be around for another 4-8 years and he is a force to be reckoned.
… he isn’t really, it’s just Greece- what’s he gonna do?
@@spitfirefrench Make a deal when Starmer is in power. Otherwise we will obviously have to invade Britain.
Important subject?
Don't think so.
@@georgesotiriou7051With what?
Also Mitsotakis was going to tell him it's a bad idea for the future of peace to sell Eurofighters to Erdogan.
I sympathise with our British friends for being embarrassed with their PM. It seems it is inevitable for people once in a while to elect a looser in to power. We had our share here in Greece with Tsipras for over four years. Sunal is a little rat who run back to his hole, lacking the balls to meet with PM MItsotakis. BTW the monument's name is the Parthenon Sculptures. If the word "Elgin" has to be included then the right name in the Parthenon Sculptures that got stolen and looted by Elgin"
All this about the marbles and no one cares about Cyprus. Us Greek Cypriots will never be free & Greece and the UK doesn't care
He wasn't elected he was appointed because the last one quit it's happened a few times now
It's not just that it's wrong to cut up monuments and remove parts of them from their location. The Partenon was erected to commemorate Athenian victories in the Grecopersian wars. Starting with the battle of Marathon with the fallen Athenians in that battle depicted in broken Parthenon freezes now separated and displayed in the British museum. The equivalent for the British people would be something like the cenotaph. If a British person told me that they would have no issue with breaking it up and putting the broken parts of the cenotaph on display in some faraway land's museum, I wouldn't believe them. Or say Hitler occupying France breaking up the Arc de Triomphe and selling its bits to Americans. Especially for the Parthenon and what it stands for, not just for the monument's artistic value as a whole but for what it means and what it is, it's as bad as it gets. So many dont understand what they re even talking about...
Cry more.
The Parthenon/Elgin marbles, People claim they're stolen and demand the British Museum return them. Then you dig into that claim and on literally the first google result you learn that fallen marble statues were being burned to extract lime for building, so the British Ambassador requested permission to extract some and was granted it by the Ottoman Empire. He then funded shipping them to the UK himself. To say that they were stolen is ridiculous.
@@Finnbobjimbob The Ottomans have about as much to do with Greeks and Parthenon as Hitler with Arc de Triomphe. Ignorant comment. But Hitler would agree with you. How does that make you feel?
Pride pride pride, the face in which the government cannot hide. Smh really. Give back what was taken, and help your citizens. That is what the government should do.
Elgin marbes?? Was Elgin the sculptor?? That treatment is barbaric.
@BBC News, why repeat the term 'Elgin Marbles'? The equivalent would be naming individual Benin Bronzes after the British officers who brought them back to London after destroying the city of Benin and murdering its people.
This term 'Elgin Marbles' not only has deeply violent and colonial roots, but its ongoing usage perpetuates the entitlement and sense of ownership that the British Museum likes to broadcast. They are the Parthenon Marbles. They were stolen from Greece and should be returned. Any argument to the contrary conveniently sidesteps (yet again) Britain's role in looting the world of its cultural treasures.
LOL!
*FINDERS KEEPERS, LOSERS WEEPERS.*
So disappointing!
Didn't this happen with pieces from Africa recently? Repatriation of the marbles might contribute to maintaining peace, which is scarce these days.
Yeah and what was returned to Africa from Germany has now gone missing. Likely in a corrupt politicians collection 😂
British citizens are struggling to heat their homes, yet a petty argument over some statues that nobody would really miss, is "News"
what i thought exactly
Give the Marbles back.
Greeks wouldn't think this is petty
Well if you don't need our "statues" bring them back to their home in our country in Greece.
The BBC never misses an opportunity to bash Britain
Give it back!
No, it rightfully belongs to us. The Parthenon/Elgin marbles were literally given to us, yet people claim they're stolen and demand the British Museum return them. Then you dig into that claim and on literally the first google result you learn that fallen marble statues were being burned to extract lime for building, so the British Ambassador requested permission to extract some and was granted it by the Ottoman Empire. He then funded shipping them to the UK himself. To say that they were stolen is ridiculous. Do some actual research so you have an informed opinion instead of spreading misinformation.
@@FinnbobjimbobIt Doesn't Belong To You And You Know It But You Are Just Too Arrogant To Admit That This Marbles Doesn't Belong To Your Country Britain
They are GREEK marbles. NOT Elgin marbles.
If you stole someone's property you shouldn't look 😂amazed when you are called 😉 a thief
The Parthenon/Elgin marbles were literally given to us, yet people claim they're stolen and demand the British Museum return them. Then you dig into that claim and on literally the first google result you learn that fallen marble statues were being burned to extract lime for building, so the British Ambassador requested permission to extract some and was granted it by the Ottoman Empire. He then funded shipping them to the UK himself. To say that they were stolen is ridiculous.
@@Finnbobjimbob First of all, Elgin didn't create the statues so you shouldn't call them as "Elgin marbles". Feidias created them. Secondly we would never ever sell our heritage even if we were starving. These statues are part of one of the most beautiful monument in the wold. You have stolen them and accept it.
@@user-pb3sd6wu7x Nope, these are facts. We bought them legally, you accept it.
Pretty ironic of Sunak doing this Greece. We have to remember him that the Brits were who looted and occupied the country of his ancestors.
Key word being “ancestors” . Napoleon IV died a British lieutenant with Queen Victoria attending his funeral. Now compare that to his great grandfather 😂
The Parthenon/Elgin marbles were literally given to us, yet people claim they're stolen and demand the British Museum return them. Then you dig into that claim and on literally the first google result you learn that fallen marble statues were being burned to extract lime for building, so the British Ambassador requested permission to extract some and was granted it by the Ottoman Empire. He then funded shipping them to the UK himself. To say that they were stolen is ridiculous. Do some actual research so you have an informed opinion instead of spreading misinformation.
No one gave the marbles to Elgin. All he had was a firman (Sultan's authorization) to excavate the Acropolis.The marbles were on the Parthenon,' facade. It was pure looting.
He damaged both the building and the sculptures, two of which fall from and smashed into pieces when the crane failed. Further damage was done when the boat transporting the sculptures sank in a port and the marbles remained in the bottom of the sea until Elgin got them back to the surface. Even further damage was dome when the Britrish Museum tried to remove all remaining traces of polychromy with metallic brushes because their idea of Greek sculpture was that it had to be pure white... @@Finnbobjimbob
What an utterly, utterly cowardly act (no surprise!) by Sunak!!!
Does he recognise that he has neither the intellect nor the experience to defend a point???
Too incompetent to face the tasks that he was NOT elected to face!
He is VERY overdue, to be an ex-prime minister - and one of the worst - to boot!
How could the British name "Parthenon Sculptures" as Marbles of Elgin who stole them from Greece.... shame....
The marbles are stolen and must be returned to Greece, not given as a loan,RETURNED.
Come and get them!
*FINDERS KEEPERS, LOSERS WEEPERS.*
Someone looks so happy to be a thief, classic characteristic of a British 🤣
@@francesco245Is Franchesco a British name now?
@@aokiaoki4238 He doesn't have to be British to think that things that don't belong to them do belong to them, but it evidently helps. He never said he was British, he said it was a classic characteristic, just like a classic characteristic of Greeks is democratic values. Are you Greek because you live in a democratic country? Pedantry won't get anyone anywhere.
Give back the marbles, culture thieves
Yeah damn right, Greeks are such thieves. They should hand over the rest of the marbles to Britain so we can complete the set in the British Museum. Might as well sign some more arms deals with Turkey while we are at it.
They Are Not Ashamed
One should never ask
A lady her age
A gent about his salary
The British museum how it got it's collection
Hmmmm Winchester did not give sunak any manners. A non-statesman PM
Stolen properties shall all be returned. Not just Greece's.
It was not about the Parthenon Sculptures, Britain knows the Greeks say this for over 40 years now. Something else is behind and Britain already picked side, they prefer to side with the allies of the Nazis at WW2, the Turks.
I still don't understand why a european country has a foreigner as their prime minister causing diplomatic tensions without any reason.
I find it incredible the Sunak has cancelled a meeting with a Greek diplomat over a set of marbles, yet he embraces an Israeli politician after 20,000 civilians are killed.
It's almost as if Britain is closer to Israel a country they'll do anything for while the Greeks who fought 2 WW's alongside the British get sh"t on 😂
Hey British citizens, in case you wonder why you're prime Minister offended us i ensure you it ain't for the marbles but for the 40 brand new eurofighters and corvettes that he will provide to Turkey to assist the upcoming invasion to Greek Islands. The betrayal he is about to commit is unspeakable. I hope there are sane voices there that will prevent this -
Did you ever pay the EU back?
The United Kingdom is selling to Turkey because they know Erdogan is bluffing. Ironically when the United Kingdom didn’t sell to Turkey, which was the Ottoman Empire at the time, it contributed to them declaring war on the allies in WW1
There would be no betrayal because the UK is not on Turkeys side in this matter. The UK would simply be fighting a war against the same equipment they sold to Turkey, if that makes sense.
@curls9032 Hell yes, each and every year. If last time you got updated on Greek economy was 2012 do your homework, introduce yourself to 2023 and you might have something actually smart and tangible to say.
@@hismastersvoice4184 Greece defaulted on that debt in 2015.
@@curls9032No it wasn't.
Frankly, these sculptures were *looted* from Greece in 1811/12 under the (debatable) permission of the Ottoman officials who were in authority in Athens at that time. It's more than high time that the sculptures were returned to their rightful home from which they were *vandalised* so long ago. Empires come and empires go and that includes both the Ottoman and British varieties so let's do the decent thing and if needs be, make some good copies and send the originals back. Just saying and not hating OK.
Plundered most of the world. Including India, the country that Sunaks family come from. Give the Greeks back their Marbles. And while you are at it, all the rest of the loot that was stolen from other nations.
Sunak is not Indian, he s no nationality or ethicity whatsoever, his nation and ethnicity is money and power, anything else is purely coincidental.
How do they belong in England? Aren’t they Greek? They are extremely beautiful but belong on their homeland of Greece🤷🏻♀️
So all art is to be retured to country of origin?
What a shameful bunch of incompetents in No.10.
They're more competent than you.
Not so much about the marbles anymore. The diplomatic tension is not about the marbles. Its about being rude and cancelling the last minute a fixed meeting in order to snubb a pm of a European ally. As a Greek i don't believe that is a matter of serious tension between countries but a matter of an inexperienced and rather thick PM thinking that it is ok to offend a PM of another country for internal politics. Not very smart but harmless regarding the relationship between the countries. We have had our share of clown politicians so Sunak is under that same category, so no biggy
There's only really one viewpoint on the Elgin Marbles: they are Greek
Give everyone their history back. If another gvmt wants they should make duplicate but certainly send everything home where it originates from!
Modern Greeks have nothing to do with Ancient Greece. Therefore these artifacts belong to all Humans - and the British Museum is the safest place on Earth to keep them. Same goes for Roman or Ancient Egyption etc artifacts.
@@nineteen8026Your argument is riddled with ethnocentricity.
Please apply the same logic to Stone Henge. Why have the British fought tooth and nail to replace all of its removed pieces and other stone monoliths that were removed from their place of origin. Doesn't your logic negate their claims as well?
Also, the pieces have been substantially damaged since their removal and various transports. How can you claim that Britian would protect them better? Have you compared them to ones that were not removed? Or have you heard of the Benin Bronzes? Same story but some ended up in German museums. The German's returned them politely but Britian still refuses. Some would argue German museums might preserve them better than Britain.
@@SWatson410 German Museum should of kept them - Germany currently more stable than Africa. I am not aware of the Stonehenge items story.
The Parthenon/Elgin marbles were literally given to us, yet people claim they're stolen and demand the British Museum return them. Then you dig into that claim and on literally the first google result you learn that fallen marble statues were being burned to extract lime for building, so the British Ambassador requested permission to extract some and was granted it by the Ottoman Empire. He then funded shipping them to the UK himself. To say that they were stolen is ridiculous.
Nope.
This is disgraceful, are the British proud that this man represents them?
Hopefully the Greek government will bring things to the international court of Hauge, take the marbles back as well as compensation for the profits of that museum.
The museum is non-profit.
Yeah some of the reason for breaking the meeting this late may be that this discussion overlaps with the UK's handling of the Hague convention addressing the legality of this issue as well as another hot topic these days...UKs support of Israeli violations of the same convention regarding Palestine.
If they agree to the legality of of Greece's claim but continue to disregard the same convention in regards to Palestinian claims it would only add fuel to those flames and display the hypocrisy of their foreign policy even more.
Trust me, we're not proud of him by any stretch of the imagination..
thank you very much for your response I appreciate it@@Pemmont107
is it free-entrance??@@zorrodm
Elgin stole them. Now Sunak has embarrassed himself.
Elgin bought them legally from the Ottomans- Greeks were destroying others thought they were pagan - deeply orthodox Christian and didn’t appreciate them.
@@julianaagu6215Thieves
@@julianaagu6215 That’s not true because Greece has the remaining marbles that Elgin didn’t steal.
And why do you think an occupying power has the right to sell off the treasure of conquered nations?
@@julianaagu6215 Are you aware the Parthenon still stands in Athens? Or are you just repeating the rhetoric of people who are desperately trying to justify the possession of something that is not theirs?
@@ntlrdm I am aware and also Elgin saved the marbles from possible destruction at that time - they were not appreciated by by many Greeks and Ottomans.
Calling the stolen and butchered Parthenon sculptures "Elgin Marbles" is like having a bloke named Marc cut your vintage E Type in two, steal the second half and then trying to get it registered as a Mark 2
- implies the person who made them was actually alive at the time …
No, as they were purchased and transported legally and with Athens knowledge, your irrelevant metaphor makes no sense at all.
@@BootneckAlphaKilo please give us some proofs about that you dealers of stolen goods
Law of the jungle
@@manpreetbrar838we are humans not animals
It's Parthenon's marbles,not Elgin's. Cheers.
Stolen Parthenon sculptures! There, fix the title, dude!
I'm Greek. England left Europe, doesn't give back any statues, what's going on there? Don't you like friends? I love England and I don't believe that people there are thieves. Tell to your minister to give back our stuff please and tell your politicians to change direction, I don't see England going well if they continue like this.
This is a kind comment.. but England is only one part of the United Kingdom.
The European Union was uniquely different to the UK than other countries, not because of arrogance, but because of the Commonwealth and British Empire. The EU forced Britain to abandon these ties, meanwhile other countries were simply strengthening ties they already had, if that makes sense
It’s worth noting the British view of Greece, only 3% view it negatively, making Greece the most liked country in the United Kingdom. The way I see it, the marbles are a very solid exchange considering the London Protocol and lives lost in WW2.
You could take cities from Greece and it would still be left with a richer history than most of the world. I don’t see how marbles changes this
I'm not Greek. The Greeks, take loads of cash from the EU. Don't pay it back. Great guys the Greeks.
The whole of the UK isn't going well at all, it is diabolical at present and looks like it's set to get even worse. I mean when we have a government that is supporting Genocide I dread to think what their next vile step will be 😢
@@curls9032Judging an ethical dilima with your personal preferences and equating irrelevant things shows a lot about yourself. Where are you from by the way?
@@XXXTENTAClON227 I don't like seperation. Specially when England was part of Eu. I think they could help with crysis but instead they chose to leave eu unfurtunately. I think it was a good opportunity for the prime minister of England to show some friendship to the most liked country in UK Greece but once again they lost the opportunity and he did the opposite, declining even talking with our prime minister of Greece. I dont understand how this will help the future of England specially now with the crysis and the war. I don't like how things are going and I wanted to share my opinion. Thank you very much for reading my comment.
Its a shame Rishi doesn't do this with France over the dingy divers
Greek heritage must return to Greece !!!! That's all
How has the bbc got time to report on this but not the Israel march
I believe that Sunak was looking for a pretense as to call off the meeting without prior notice for two reasons. The first one is the possibility of the UK concluding a deal with Turkey to sell them a batch of Eurofighter jets since the US is unwilling to sell the F16 or F35 they so desperately need, therefore the UK while Sunak is in charge needs to distance itself from Greece a bit. The second one is Mitsotakis meeting Starmer few hours before Sunak which made the latter lash out in an effort to appeal to some nationalist voters.
If Great Britain returns everything it has stolen over centuries, all over the world, it will turn into the poorest country on earth😂
Good then free loaders would stop coming and the money saved Britain would be rich again
Without Great Britain's help during the Second World War, you would now write in German. Learn the history not just the bloody books of Ellinikis Istorias