I have a Kawasaki z400 and love it on the track as my objectives on track is be be a bit quicker and be a better rider... started my track experience last year at 71 years young.. great video .. well explained 👍
What I always tell first timers, ride for your own enjoyment and don’t be bothered if most people are faster than you. Have fun, and keep the rubber side down.
I have a V2 that I've been tracking for 2 years now. I don't bother to ride on the road anymore, the track is just too much of a blast and for the first time in my forty years of biking I'm really learning to ride. I've jacked up the rear quite a bit to stabilise the front end, fitted Rizoma MA006 and had new risers made to lower the handlebar position by around 30 mm and forward around 10 mm. This gets my weight forward and gives me a better feel for the front end. It's a superb track machine. Even with the non-factory suspension it handles like a dream, hardly shakes it's head and keeps it's line. On the straights I'm cannon-fodder for the R1s and ZX10s but that's ok, I'm only here for the corners and the Tuono shines in that department. Wishing you many exciting track days with the shiny side up!
I'm the only one who thinks that the seat of the duke get you a lot on the front of the bike? Because i've bought one last year and since then i've never felt comfortable on the seat, btw very nice bike
I noticed on the track, being one of them who started with a naked bike , that most naked bike riders, when they start track riding, keep their upper body aligned and in axis with their gas tank. Consequently, they lean much more than what they would do on a regular sports bike. Since your lean angle is more than what you need for turning, you arrive at a danger limit earlier than what you would do on a sports bike. I spoke to a guy doing races on naked, and he said that the movement of dissociating the upper body from the bike should be more pronounced, even exaggerated on a naked bike in order to profit from the more relaxed position and avoid taking too much lean angle. If not doing it, you are easily fooled by the easiness of steering, but you reach earlier the danger zone of max lean and become more prone to crashes. From what I experienced, and what I see on the track more guys with naked bikes crash in the beginners and advanced groups than with regular sport bikes. That is only my observation.
I second this on my 2015 CB500F. I've been really trying to keep track and do things differently through different corners over the short time of riding I have, and I am incredibly guilty of what you said. It is incredibly easy to feel like you don't need to move, but ever since I started moving my body out in any kind of curve, it just feels so much better. It feels safer, wet or dry, and gives a forgiving amount of lean in case you hit some kind of bump. It was a real big difference to me than the CBR300Rs they had at the msf course, but I absolutely love this bike now. Really goes to show that you need to learn the bike and they really do take care of us.
True, If nakeds were really the same as sports, There would be nakeds in pro races too but there are none , says something. Lol , u want the least lean angle as possible, best grip and safety.
This is why I've practiced moving out of the saddle on my SV1k naked every time that I take a turn, even one that is relatively relaxed. Might be overkill but it gets me in the habit, plus on the street there is zero room for error and being in the right position will give you extra lean halfway through the turn than you can get otherwise.
@@pravesh736 have you try going 260+kmh with a naked bike ? that the issue ... look the new aprilia tuono X video , the pro rider annihilated all sport bike on the track
I have a gsxs750 and it’s the first naked I’ve ever ridden. I’ve had super sports bikes before this and I’ve been more keen to that style. This gsxs ergonomics is new to me and I’ve been struggling to find myself getting into the proper body position on the track. I tend to lean the bike more than my body and I just have such a conflicting feeling with it. I’m used to my chest being closer to the tank and that’s usually my reference point to my upper body in regards to my lower half being aligned in a lean on the bike. After seeing myself on footage, I’ve realized that the upright seating kind of diminishes that judgement I use of body alignment until I lower my chest and get back into familiar territory where I’m like, okay. I know where I’m at now and then I lean myself further. I am rather on the shorter side of the spectrum so I tend to have to lean more anyways.
Have taken my 2015 BMW R1200R to Phillip Island a number of times. No issues scraping knees and having just as much fun as guys on sportier bikes. Loved the video. Some good points there as usual Dan.
Great work Dan, 68yrs. of age and been tracking for 2.5yrs.at upper intermediate group at Chuckwalla, My current bike is a 2018 Street Triple RS and also ride a GSX-R750. I am 4 sec. faster on the GSX-R750. My take is the GSXR is very well planted compared to the RS. RS turned in easier and of course you ride at a different height. Riding down the straights doing over 120mph can't really notice the wind that much as you would think. The RS is faster to 120mph and the GSXR is 1 tooth lowered in front and 1 tooth higher in the rear. My son rides the GSXR and is 4 sec. faster than I am as well as 50lbs. lighter. The RS has taught me a lot about riding in my track years and will continue with the bike until the end of this year. By the way my son's GSXR was my 1st. bike I had purchased in 2011 and had never ridden any other bike in my life. The GSXR was the wrong bike for me to learn on maybe due to my age but didn't work out for me at that time. After selling the bike to my son I purchased a FZ07, added suspension and learned how to track a bike. Great learning bike to ride canyons, was dangerous on the California freeways getting out to the canyons. Never regret owning and riding various bikes, never had gone down thanks to a ex pro that has been working with us for a couple of yrs. Picking up a Ninja 400 in a few month's and will start tracking the bike due to lower cost of tires and having more of a fun factor! Thank You Dan for all the info. you share with us and the best of luck to all!!!
From this perspective you mentioned definitively agree. However the influence of aero from sport bikes have one saving much more energy which is noticeable on race tracks with high speed turns and/or long straights. The sport bike punches better through the air. The Naked has more drag from under as well as from front, plus the riders stance. I did back to back riding on my Naked vs a brand new sport bike on the same track and that is where I really noticed the difference. Great video thanks.
I ride a CB599 on track and it’s a lot of fun. However, I started feeling some of the limitations to the naked style. For exemple on a straight, their is no fairing to protect you from the wind, and air tends to get between my knees and the tank, which is a very weird feeling and causes some drag. The other thing is that the tank and the whole bike being more narrow, I found it difficult to press my outside knee against the tank while leaning. But in all considerations, I’m glad to have started on a naked as I do feel comfortable on it.
I have done two track days on my Triumph Street Twin and I had a great time. Being a newer track day rider I wasn’t looking to set any lap records so the ST was great as I was already comfortable with it. But I found the lean angle to be limited in some of the tighter turns so I picked up a Yamaha R3 to use on the track. Also, I love my Triumph and I don’t want it getting beat up. :-)
I take my Ducati 848 Streetfighter out on track, and it's a whole mess of fun. Don't really have a big problem keeping up with the sports bikes, but it does get a bit windy above 220 km/h. Nice video and ride safe.
I ride a Yamaha FZ1N I always wondered if following your videos advice was the correct thing to do as I’m on a naked bike. I have implemented many things I’ve learned from you and have gained a lot of skill over this last season. I really appreciate these videos you put out. This one was sweet as it is good to know I am implementing things correctly.
Been there, on my CB-1. Until 130 kph (80 mph) it's all fine. At 150 (95) you are getting difficulty keeping your head straight. At 180 (110) you are holding on for dear life. Great learning experience, though, for getting a feel for the speed. Did 230 kph (140) on my RF600F. No biggie.
I definitely have to get tucked right down on the straights, but once I am I don't find wind to be an issue. It's if you sit up slightly then your body acts as a big scoop!
True. I find at speeds above 205 to 210 KM/hr the buffetting can become problematic enough to affect my ability to add subtle handling inputs. I tend to start having to hold onto the handlebars more than I'd like; it takes away from my ability to provide relaxed inputs despite my legs and core working hard to keep me attached to the bike and properly positioned. It provides for a surprisingly good abdominal workout though!!!
Totally! I plan to ride my CBR500 on track indefinately. Very helpful video that makes me feel much less self-conscious about my "look" in comparison to sport bike riders'.
I partially agree, not all current naked bikes have a tank and rear set ergo like the triumph making it near impossible to keep your leg locked and arms relaxed. Its like locking your leg on a dirtbike it simply cannot be done which is why the body position for supermoto changes so they can still keep there arms relaxed.
Did my first track day on at Ducati Multisrada 1200S. Couldn’t have felt any more comfortable on the track IMO. I’m 50 and not a limber as I used to be and find the typical track/sport bike not as comfortable. I had no problem keeping up with the sport bikes either (novice group of course). Didn’t fatigue as much as my buddies on track bikes either. I’m gonna stick with the Muiltstrada for awhile! All your points are extremely salient in that regard.
Had an R6 and now a monster, and as you say, being comfortable is key to go fast, it gives you more confidence. i loved my yamaha, but 10 years later i love my ducati to go as fast as i was 20. Really good channel! 👌👌👌
They should have a naked race class if there already isn't one. This year will be my first time taking my 18 Street Triple R on the track and I am pumped.
I do believe that sports bike riders are also able to grip the tank with their chest and/or forearm. I was told that the more contact points you have with your motorcycle the more stable it will be?
All this time I had it wrong. I thought cornering with a naked would be more difficult to give deeper banking angle. Somehow I felt nervous on a naked giving more banking than when I rode a sports bike but I guess it was just me. Thank you very much for the good video, I will practice more to see where my fear comes from on a naked bike.
I ride a bike a little out of the ordinary on track - a Yamaha FZS1000 Fazer. I used to ride it standard on track - but then I had an accident on it on the road - so I got another road bike and converted the Fazer into a track bike. R6 monoshock on the back, new stiffer springs on the front, I put clip-on handlebars on, shortened the rake by =dragging the forks through 10mm. Made a new seat and adapted the fairing t accommodate the clip-ons. It looks like a mad max machine but it's also real fun.
Dan I really welcomed this video from you. I ride a suzuki gsxs 1000f, and fellow track addicts urge me to get a 600 (quicker learning). While I agree with them, I have so far been holding out because I don't have another $2500 lying around. But what's especially heartening to hear is that I can still practice good body position on my (sort of) naked bike!
I went from a TRX850 (1996) plus a cbr600f2 (1994, tuned suspensions) to a Duke 790. The Duke on a wet track (Franciacorta) was faster than the TRX on the same track but dry. I made 51 laps in a morning rather than in a whole day and with less fatigue. BTW in the Franciacorta circuit's paddock Perotti's riding evolution style training is available and does wonders to get people to correct the body position in a safe and fun environment.
Have had my Continuing to Evolve Yamaha FZ1 on the track multiple times . What a blast ! The best part of riding upright is the sport bike guys shaking there heads in the pits after a season . Keep the vids coming ...great info !
Been riding superbikes over 30 years; this year purchased the 2020 KTM 1290 Super Duke R. It's just so different, yes the leverage with bars makes so much easier some times give you false sense of security going too hard.
Amazing ! the most comprehensive comparison I've ever read/watched! Appreciate all your good work! Just wondering what gearing are/were you running on your street triple front and rear ? What do you suggest for a relatively small track with tight corners ?
As someone who also likes to take his "sporty" naked bike to the track somewhat regularly myself, I absolutely love this vid. There isn't a whole lot of "track riding techniques" content centered around naked bikes like this out there.Thanks!
I have done my first open track day last week on my S1000R BMW 2017.. I got my knee down in the third session of that day and I did not expect to do so haha. thanks for the Channel thu ..
Higher bars means easier steering...but the downside is that smaller "bad" inputs affect more the bike. Example: if you grip the bar tighter when coming out of corners the head shakes will be harder (a good steering damper is required)
@@chytu558 Relay depends. R6 is great for the track, but Duke is much better on tight twisty roads, thanks to the torque and super agile size/weight. For high speed id say go for R6 (track use), for road 790.
my issue is mainly how to return to the 'centered on bike' position after completing a turn. Whenever i shift my butt to the center, i can feel the bike get slightly upset.
Thanks, exactly what i knew but wanted someone to show that with picture comparison. Another small point is with a handlebar we have less angle (more comfortable) for your wrists compared with clip ons
Very informative video, thanks. When I get it right with the whole body i.e. torso Butt, Knee and feet it feels like man and machine in perfect harmony, not a motorbike and rider going round a corner!!
Something that isn’t mentioned here some naked bikes are called sport naked bikes they come with the same body positions of a sport bike like the Ducati street fighter just without covers on the bike
01:50 The outside leg attachment with the tank is a key part in creating a good base with the lower body. The peg position & tank shape will determine how well u can create this anchor point. Yeah... on my ex bandit600 1995, i was having difficulties to feel locked on the tank. My knee was getting locked on on the frame, it wasnt reaching the tank.... so i put some grippy tape on the frame ... it helped partially.
on the big trails and dual sports i used to ride, i could lean way the F down, now i'm for the first time riding a more sport style bike and i'm a bit afraid of leaning, the riding position is too different
naked bike is more better/practical for riding outside of track.. sportier bike only better in track but lack the practical use in real life..yes u can go 200+kmh on sportbike easier.. but who does that on the road😂
My solution. ZX6R with shorter gear ratio by changing to -1/+2 sprocket size. Using adjustable clip ons and rearsets to achieve a more naked- bike like riding position. Makes a huge difference especially if you're street riding, or doing short distance time attacks where quick bursts of high power are much better.
I agree but don't you have the wind blast when you turn on a sport bike (because you are no more behind the windshield)? Could be great to have some advice on hearing protection too :) do they really work when you ride fast on a naked bike?
@@polhomarkho5229 always wear hearing protection, on any bike! Riding over 80km/h for a while will already result in permanent hearing loss without protection.
@@steveman1982 I guess I'm one in a million, been riding big bore two strokes in 70s today I ride my ZX14 turbocharged. Getting top of line helmet does it for me. I've tried ear plugs and it almost got me killed. To each his own. 😀
@@polhomarkho5229the wind blast gets worse in straight lines, that's where ure really going against the wind, not so much in corners. A good helmet will give decent ear protet
I'm riding a 2022 Yamaha MT-09. The seat on it feels so high and it has little to no support behind you. I feel as if I'm going to slide off the back when accelerating. Other than that the bike is awesome!
iProfiter I just did my first track day on my XSR 900 at NY Safety track. It was really great! It has no clearance issues other than the pegs and shifter. The side stand will not touch. I ran Q3+ tires and was able to get the stock suspension working surprisingly well. Good luck on yours.
Wondering if the pegs make a difference - would they drag more on a naked (lower), meaning you need to offset more lean angle - or not an issue? Also, my understanding is that the factory guys adjust the clip-ons outboard on set-up so they get easier steering for the reason you mention.
Sport bikes are built to slip through the air more efficiently. Nakeds 'can' handle the same tracks at the same speeds for most of us mere mortals. 1050 Speed Triple on a track day and I'm comfortable in B group. Smiles all day!!
I have BMW G310R and I was more than ten times on a track with it. I've changed tires recently to Rosso IV Corsa and I was not too far away from guys on proper R3 with lap time 57.5s vs 55-56s for their R3 and much more experience it seemed. I'd love to have proper track bike, but I can't have two bikes and don't really have time and space to use trailer for the track bike
I was going to switch from my CB750 to a ZXR750RR. Really nervous though, never had to go knee down on the Honda, so I never had any practice. But in the traffic, I thankfully don't need to go that fast.
I ride 3 quite different bikes on and off track, '85 GSXR711, Suzuki SV1000S & Bimota Tesi 3D final Ed.. Other that weight and power difference I ride them much the same and pass an awful lot of newer 'better' bikes so I guess I'm doing something right - but there's always room for improvement. 😁
Keep the great content coming! May e you could do a vid on what tracks would be good for beginners? I've got a 790 Duke that I would love to take on a track, but I've never been! Don't know where to go or even if my I should go with my bike...
I just got rid of my ‘13 Hypermotard to go back to a ‘19 1000RR. I could never get comfortable through the mountains on the Duc, the RR I just took out today through Deckers and Pine and what an amazing machine. (Had an 09 1000RR previous) just me but I prefer a Superbike.
Awesome Video! I ride an 01 Honda VFR800 (Honda Intercepter) it does great at the track! Its way above my level and capability. BTW I love your videos!
I owned an old naked bike cb400sf , when I tried to turn like Iam on a supersport it was horrible and dangerous because I lean in front much more. I fix that by lean less and felt way better and faster.
I rode a CBR600rr for years. now I'm riding MT09, and it feels so weird to lean. Felt like I'm too far from the ground and make me lose confidence in the corner
Rode the new 2019 S1000RR on track. Went back to my S1000R. I feel the RR is easier to ride as when I hop on it, I just "click" into position and pretty soon feel one with the bike. On my R I'm constantly wondering if I'm in the right position (have I leaned forward enough, is my head low enough, is my butt where it should be on that long seat etc.). Idk if any of this makes sense but riding the RR fast, leaning in corners etc just feels much more natural to me than on a naked bike. It's like the sports bike kind of forces you into the right position or it won't work at all, but after a while it just feels natural. It would probably still be a pain in the ass to swap the naked for a sports bike for daily use though.
What naked bikes dont have are aerodynamics to back up those fast twisties with an even faster top end. The rider just wont feel comfortable fighting the storm by holding onto the handlebars - coz thats what the torso gets anchored too then.
One thing I noticed going from a sportbike to a naked bike on track is that I didnt rest my outside arm on the tank like I did on my sportbike. It felt awkward and unnatural.
Been riding on the streets since 1980,even my ZX14 is becoming a handful, thinking about the new V-Max after riding one I love it super comfy seat great power, just needs a fly screen.
I ride my daily, a Street Triple R, on the track every few months. I need to work on clamping onto the tank with the outside leg better, will try the calf raises as mentioned in another vid. I find myself weighting the inside peg quite a lot. Is it possible that wide flat bars help you "feel" the countersteering more directly? Love the channel, cheers.
I have an RS, sounds familiar. I just ordered some replacement footpegs, that will allow for a better hold on the soles of my boots. Also, something like a Stompgrip will help a lot.
@@steveman1982 cheers mate. I'll look into the stompgrips. It came with Techspec pads when I bought it but they're not positioned well for track riding.
i did a track day on a Honda GROM and that was hella fun, i were faster then the others i was riding with in the conors, oh and the ones i was driving with hade much bigger bikes then 125cc
I have a 2018 RSV4 and can't help but feel that the bike is too small for me... I am 6'3 230 and i just can't get my legs/knees into the tank in a way that i'd like. Have been looking at aftermarket rearsets so i can get a deeper feel when hanging off.
Na, I just looked at it and said “Yea, I want that one”... Of course I sat on it. And test rode it. It’s not the same when you ride it hard at the track or in the canyons
I ride my monster 1200s on track, started looking for a dedicated track bike but the transition from the monster to a superbike did not feel good. No confidence at all so i think i will stick to the monster for now.
Rider height. Does it make a difference in riding position? Reason being, taller rider seem to have their body position further from the tank as opposed to shorter rider. This makes them(shorter riders) have a much better body position and makes the bike steer better....Or is it just a psychological thing that doesn't actually make any difference...
I wonder about grip differences. Mt09 front to rear balance is quite neutral, if you sit toward the rear of the front seat to get into position, does it reduce front grip during acceleration as weight is rear biased? Good illustration of this is that at Oulton, unless I practically sat on the tank I would wheely over that blind crested left hill every time
Optimum weight is definitely a balance. Tyres need load to work correctly, and when you alter the load to each end it alters how well the tyres can work. I wouldn't say shifting a back a little would reach the point of dangerously low grip on the front end, though.
Tuono factory owner, trying to figure out what the limit is for leaning the bike. Worried that id im not getting my body low enough that I'm not offsetting the lean enough. What lean angle is safe for street ?
I have a Kawasaki z400 and love it on the track as my objectives on track is be be a bit quicker and be a better rider... started my track experience last year at 71 years young.. great video .. well explained
👍
Amazing bikes, I used to have one too!
I just got a Z900, scares the hell out of me at high speeds tbh, sometimes I feel like it wants to get away from me when I'm just cruising in 5th
Owner of a Tuono Factory here. I'm doing my firt track day in 9 days. I feel like a kid that is waiting for Xmas.
I had a T for 4 years. Best handling bike I owned.
What I always tell first timers, ride for your own enjoyment and don’t be bothered if most people are faster than you. Have fun, and keep the rubber side down.
max1cote Stay loose, and just lay your hands on the bars.
I have a V2 that I've been tracking for 2 years now. I don't bother to ride on the road anymore, the track is just too much of a blast and for the first time in my forty years of biking I'm really learning to ride. I've jacked up the rear quite a bit to stabilise the front end, fitted Rizoma MA006 and had new risers made to lower the handlebar position by around 30 mm and forward around 10 mm. This gets my weight forward and gives me a better feel for the front end. It's a superb track machine. Even with the non-factory suspension it handles like a dream, hardly shakes it's head and keeps it's line. On the straights I'm cannon-fodder for the R1s and ZX10s but that's ok, I'm only here for the corners and the Tuono shines in that department. Wishing you many exciting track days with the shiny side up!
How did you go ??
I have 790 Duke, given it’s performance at Pikes Peak last year and this great info to show friends with sports bikes, I’m smiling from ear to ear.
I have one too.. Best bike I ever had😊
Love my 790 Duke. So nimble
Same here its soo comfy and flickable
U guys have bikes.
I'm the only one who thinks that the seat of the duke get you a lot on the front of the bike?
Because i've bought one last year and since then i've never felt comfortable on the seat, btw very nice bike
I noticed on the track, being one of them who started with a naked bike , that most naked bike riders, when they start track riding, keep their upper body aligned and in axis with their gas tank. Consequently, they lean much more than what they would do on a regular sports bike. Since your lean angle is more than what you need for turning, you arrive at a danger limit earlier than what you would do on a sports bike. I spoke to a guy doing races on naked, and he said that the movement of dissociating the upper body from the bike should be more pronounced, even exaggerated on a naked bike in order to profit from the more relaxed position and avoid taking too much lean angle. If not doing it, you are easily fooled by the easiness of steering, but you reach earlier the danger zone of max lean and become more prone to crashes. From what I experienced, and what I see on the track more guys with naked bikes crash in the beginners and advanced groups than with regular sport bikes. That is only my observation.
I second this on my 2015 CB500F. I've been really trying to keep track and do things differently through different corners over the short time of riding I have, and I am incredibly guilty of what you said. It is incredibly easy to feel like you don't need to move, but ever since I started moving my body out in any kind of curve, it just feels so much better. It feels safer, wet or dry, and gives a forgiving amount of lean in case you hit some kind of bump. It was a real big difference to me than the CBR300Rs they had at the msf course, but I absolutely love this bike now. Really goes to show that you need to learn the bike and they really do take care of us.
True, If nakeds were really the same as sports, There would be nakeds in pro races too but there are none , says something. Lol , u want the least lean angle as possible, best grip and safety.
This is why I've practiced moving out of the saddle on my SV1k naked every time that I take a turn, even one that is relatively relaxed. Might be overkill but it gets me in the habit, plus on the street there is zero room for error and being in the right position will give you extra lean halfway through the turn than you can get otherwise.
You said perfectly, always had superbikes then i got 2020 KTM 1290 R. Oh my😱
@@pravesh736 have you try going 260+kmh with a naked bike ? that the issue ... look the new aprilia tuono X video , the pro rider annihilated all sport bike on the track
Dan, big, big thanks,....AGAIN,...for all you've done to help and school us. Info is INVALUABLE!!!!👍
I have a gsxs750 and it’s the first naked I’ve ever ridden. I’ve had super sports bikes before this and I’ve been more keen to that style. This gsxs ergonomics is new to me and I’ve been struggling to find myself getting into the proper body position on the track. I tend to lean the bike more than my body and I just have such a conflicting feeling with it. I’m used to my chest being closer to the tank and that’s usually my reference point to my upper body in regards to my lower half being aligned in a lean on the bike. After seeing myself on footage, I’ve realized that the upright seating kind of diminishes that judgement I use of body alignment until I lower my chest and get back into familiar territory where I’m like, okay. I know where I’m at now and then I lean myself further. I am rather on the shorter side of the spectrum so I tend to have to lean more anyways.
I noticed that too. I have a GSXR750 and a Street Triple 765R. I find leaning and hanging off the bike in corners much more natural on the GSXR.
Have taken my 2015 BMW R1200R to Phillip Island a number of times. No issues scraping knees and having just as much fun as guys on sportier bikes. Loved the video. Some good points there as usual Dan.
Great work Dan, 68yrs. of age and been tracking for 2.5yrs.at upper intermediate group at Chuckwalla, My current bike is a 2018 Street Triple RS and also ride a GSX-R750. I am 4 sec. faster on the GSX-R750. My take is the GSXR is very well planted compared to the RS. RS turned in easier and of course you ride at a different height. Riding down the straights doing over 120mph can't really notice the wind that much as you would think. The RS is faster to 120mph and the GSXR is 1 tooth lowered in front and 1 tooth higher in the rear. My son rides the GSXR and is 4 sec. faster than I am as well as 50lbs. lighter. The RS has taught me a lot about riding in my track years and will continue with the bike until the end of this year. By the way my son's GSXR was my 1st. bike I had purchased in 2011 and had never ridden any other bike in my life. The GSXR was the wrong bike for me to learn on maybe due to my age but didn't work out for me at that time. After selling the bike to my son I purchased a FZ07, added suspension and learned how to track a bike. Great learning bike to ride canyons, was dangerous on the California freeways getting out to the canyons. Never regret owning and riding various bikes, never had gone down thanks to a ex pro that has been working with us for a couple of yrs. Picking up a Ninja 400 in a few month's and will start tracking the bike due to lower cost of tires and having more of a fun factor! Thank You Dan for all the info. you share with us and the best of luck to all!!!
Mad respect for tracking at that age! Ninja 400, great bike. Ride safe!
From this perspective you mentioned definitively agree. However the influence of aero from sport bikes have one saving much more energy which is noticeable on race tracks with high speed turns and/or long straights. The sport bike punches better through the air. The Naked has more drag from under as well as from front, plus the riders stance. I did back to back riding on my Naked vs a brand new sport bike on the same track and that is where I really noticed the difference. Great video thanks.
I ride a CB599 on track and it’s a lot of fun. However, I started feeling some of the limitations to the naked style. For exemple on a straight, their is no fairing to protect you from the wind, and air tends to get between my knees and the tank, which is a very weird feeling and causes some drag. The other thing is that the tank and the whole bike being more narrow, I found it difficult to press my outside knee against the tank while leaning. But in all considerations, I’m glad to have started on a naked as I do feel comfortable on it.
I have done two track days on my Triumph Street Twin and I had a great time. Being a newer track day rider I wasn’t looking to set any lap records so the ST was great as I was already comfortable with it. But I found the lean angle to be limited in some of the tighter turns so I picked up a Yamaha R3 to use on the track. Also, I love my Triumph and I don’t want it getting beat up. :-)
I take my Ducati 848 Streetfighter out on track, and it's a whole mess of fun. Don't really have a big problem keeping up with the sports bikes, but it does get a bit windy above 220 km/h. Nice video and ride safe.
What doesn't at 220 kph, even on my ninja 14.
Thank you for making this video, I’ve been looking for someone to address this.
I ride a Yamaha FZ1N I always wondered if following your videos advice was the correct thing to do as I’m on a naked bike. I have implemented many things I’ve learned from you and have gained a lot of skill over this last season. I really appreciate these videos you put out. This one was sweet as it is good to know I am implementing things correctly.
No nonsense good vid. Thanks for this. First track day on a naked in 12 days.
Wind blast can be an issue if you are not used to it. Another common sense topic well explained.
Been there, on my CB-1.
Until 130 kph (80 mph) it's all fine.
At 150 (95) you are getting difficulty keeping your head straight.
At 180 (110) you are holding on for dear life.
Great learning experience, though, for getting a feel for the speed.
Did 230 kph (140) on my RF600F.
No biggie.
I definitely have to get tucked right down on the straights, but once I am I don't find wind to be an issue. It's if you sit up slightly then your body acts as a big scoop!
True. I find at speeds above 205 to 210 KM/hr the buffetting can become problematic enough to affect my ability to add subtle handling inputs. I tend to start having to hold onto the handlebars more than I'd like; it takes away from my ability to provide relaxed inputs despite my legs and core working hard to keep me attached to the bike and properly positioned. It provides for a surprisingly good abdominal workout though!!!
Totally! I plan to ride my CBR500 on track indefinately. Very helpful video that makes me feel much less self-conscious about my "look" in comparison to sport bike riders'.
I partially agree, not all current naked bikes have a tank and rear set ergo like the triumph making it near impossible to keep your leg locked and arms relaxed. Its like locking your leg on a dirtbike it simply cannot be done which is why the body position for supermoto changes so they can still keep there arms relaxed.
Ktm 690 Duke and Yamaha WR450F SM. I've love to see this same comparison done for riding a supermoto on the track.
Did my first track day on at Ducati Multisrada 1200S. Couldn’t have felt any more comfortable on the track IMO. I’m 50 and not a limber as I used to be and find the typical track/sport bike not as comfortable. I had no problem keeping up with the sport bikes either (novice group of course). Didn’t fatigue as much as my buddies on track bikes either. I’m gonna stick with the Muiltstrada for awhile! All your points are extremely salient in that regard.
I've seen guys absolutely rip around a track on Multistrada's, kneedowns and everything!
steveman1982 that’s my goal! Love passing a Panigale on my MTS. The wide handlebars really do make controlling the bike easier.
Had an R6 and now a monster, and as you say, being comfortable is key to go fast, it gives you more confidence. i loved my yamaha, but 10 years later i love my ducati to go as fast as i was 20. Really good channel! 👌👌👌
They should have a naked race class if there already isn't one. This year will be my first time taking my 18 Street Triple R on the track and I am pumped.
Why Kawasaki replaced ZRX 1200 to the Z1000 is beyond me. That 1200 with 10 years of evolution could of been best street fighter
CB500s is a popular race series here in the UK.
I do believe that sports bike riders are also able to grip the tank with their chest and/or forearm. I was told that the more contact points you have with your motorcycle the more stable it will be?
All this time I had it wrong. I thought cornering with a naked would be more difficult to give deeper banking angle. Somehow I felt nervous on a naked giving more banking than when I rode a sports bike but I guess it was just me. Thank you very much for the good video, I will practice more to see where my fear comes from on a naked bike.
I ride a bike a little out of the ordinary on track - a Yamaha FZS1000 Fazer. I used to ride it standard on track - but then I had an accident on it on the road - so I got another road bike and converted the Fazer into a track bike. R6 monoshock on the back, new stiffer springs on the front, I put clip-on handlebars on, shortened the rake by =dragging the forks through 10mm. Made a new seat and adapted the fairing t accommodate the clip-ons. It looks like a mad max machine but it's also real fun.
Dan I really welcomed this video from you. I ride a suzuki gsxs 1000f, and fellow track addicts urge me to get a 600 (quicker learning). While I agree with them, I have so far been holding out because I don't have another $2500 lying around. But what's especially heartening to hear is that I can still practice good body position on my (sort of) naked bike!
I went from a TRX850 (1996) plus a cbr600f2 (1994, tuned suspensions) to a Duke 790.
The Duke on a wet track (Franciacorta) was faster than the TRX on the same track but dry.
I made 51 laps in a morning rather than in a whole day and with less fatigue.
BTW in the Franciacorta circuit's paddock Perotti's riding evolution style training is available and does wonders to get people to correct the body position in a safe and fun environment.
Should have added a part about moving at high speed with no protection. It's basically hard AF if you are still learning :D
Have had my Continuing to Evolve Yamaha FZ1 on the track multiple times . What a blast !
The best part of riding upright is the sport bike guys shaking there heads in the pits after a season .
Keep the vids coming ...great info !
Been riding superbikes over 30 years; this year purchased the 2020 KTM 1290 Super Duke R. It's just so different, yes the leverage with bars makes so much easier some times give you false sense of security going too hard.
Thank you so much! As always exclusively all points in one short video with clear images. Good luck!
Amazing ! the most comprehensive comparison I've ever read/watched! Appreciate all your good work!
Just wondering what gearing are/were you running on your street triple front and rear ?
What do you suggest for a relatively small track with tight corners ?
Kawasaki Z400 on Sonoma raceway in NorCal. Trying to improve but just having fun at the track is worth.
As someone who also likes to take his "sporty" naked bike to the track somewhat regularly myself, I absolutely love this vid. There isn't a whole lot of "track riding techniques" content centered around naked bikes like this out there.Thanks!
You're welcome, Pat.
I have done my first open track day last week on my S1000R BMW 2017.. I got my knee down in the third session of that day and I did not expect to do so haha. thanks for the Channel thu ..
Higher bars means easier steering...but the downside is that smaller "bad" inputs affect more the bike. Example: if you grip the bar tighter when coming out of corners the head shakes will be harder (a good steering damper is required)
I went form a R6 to a KTM Duke 790. I just stuck with the exact same riding style, and it is working great.
Compared to R6 and KTM 790, which one you liked most? I want to downgrade from my Panigale 899 to either R6 or KTM 790 for learning on the track.
@@chytu558 Relay depends. R6 is great for the track, but Duke is much better on tight twisty roads, thanks to the torque and super agile size/weight. For high speed id say go for R6 (track use), for road 790.
@@stumftim thanks for the feedback
my issue is mainly how to return to the 'centered on bike' position after completing a turn. Whenever i shift my butt to the center, i can feel the bike get slightly upset.
Thanks, exactly what i knew but wanted someone to show that with picture comparison.
Another small point is with a handlebar we have less angle (more comfortable) for your wrists compared with clip ons
Very informative video, thanks. When I get it right with the whole body i.e. torso Butt, Knee and feet it feels like man and machine in perfect harmony, not a motorbike and rider going round a corner!!
Something that isn’t mentioned here some naked bikes are called sport naked bikes they come with the same body positions of a sport bike like the Ducati street fighter just without covers on the bike
would the Super Duke 1290 have the same position as Ducati street fighter?
01:50 The outside leg attachment with the tank is a key part in creating a good base with the lower body.
The peg position & tank shape will determine how well u can create this anchor point.
Yeah... on my ex bandit600 1995, i was having difficulties to feel locked on the tank.
My knee was getting locked on on the frame, it wasnt reaching the tank.... so i put some grippy tape on the frame ... it helped partially.
Been waiting for a video like this, thanks!
Great video! Very informative for someone who wants to go out on the track with a naked bike. I'll be trying my KTM Duke 390 soon 🤞
on the big trails and dual sports i used to ride, i could lean way the F down, now i'm for the first time riding a more sport style bike and i'm a bit afraid of leaning, the riding position is too different
naked bike is more better/practical for riding outside of track.. sportier bike only better in track but lack the practical use in real life..yes u can go 200+kmh on sportbike easier.. but who does that on the road😂
hmmmmmm :)
Bikes arent practical themselves!
All bikes are not practical
Love content, expanding my knowledge 👍
Thanks for the vid man! I got a 1290 superduke that i want to do a few track days on and want to learn all that i can before doing so.
I have ZX14 turbocharged, my friend just purchased the Super Duke what bike just ride it you'll adapt to it. On one wheel, lol.
My solution. ZX6R with shorter gear ratio by changing to -1/+2 sprocket size.
Using adjustable clip ons and rearsets to achieve a more naked- bike like riding position.
Makes a huge difference especially if you're street riding, or doing short distance time attacks where quick bursts of high power are much better.
U should talk about the wind blast on naked bikes at high speeds brother!!
I agree but don't you have the wind blast when you turn on a sport bike (because you are no more behind the windshield)?
Could be great to have some advice on hearing protection too :) do they really work when you ride fast on a naked bike?
never ridden a sport bike and fairly new rider here....but I concur my street triple is scary at 100+ with the wind.
@@polhomarkho5229 always wear hearing protection, on any bike! Riding over 80km/h for a while will already result in permanent hearing loss without protection.
@@steveman1982 I guess I'm one in a million, been riding big bore two strokes in 70s today I ride my ZX14 turbocharged. Getting top of line helmet does it for me. I've tried ear plugs and it almost got me killed. To each his own. 😀
@@polhomarkho5229the wind blast gets worse in straight lines, that's where ure really going against the wind, not so much in corners.
A good helmet will give decent ear protet
I'm riding a 2022 Yamaha MT-09. The seat on it feels so high and it has little to no support behind you. I feel as if I'm going to slide off the back when accelerating. Other than that the bike is awesome!
Great source of info, thank you!🤙🤙
I'll be taking out my XSR900 pretty soon
iProfiter I just did my first track day on my XSR 900 at NY Safety track. It was really great! It has no clearance issues other than the pegs and shifter. The side stand will not touch. I ran Q3+ tires and was able to get the stock suspension working surprisingly well. Good luck on yours.
Wondering if the pegs make a difference - would they drag more on a naked (lower), meaning you need to offset more lean angle - or not an issue? Also, my understanding is that the factory guys adjust the clip-ons outboard on set-up so they get easier steering for the reason you mention.
Very insightful and informative video. Thank you 😺👍🏼
Tuono v4 here, I'm much more comfortable on road and track using this than on my old 06 blade, Faster too 👌
My 2005 SV650S has poor lean-angle clearance with stock footpegs. Extreme body positioning is required to prevent dragging footpegs.
Sport bikes are built to slip through the air more efficiently.
Nakeds 'can' handle the same tracks at the same speeds for most of us mere mortals.
1050 Speed Triple on a track day and I'm comfortable in B group. Smiles all day!!
Aaaaah,,, the Ducati Monster is a master piece naked bike... the sound and aggressive complexity of the mechanicals are eye catching
what an excellent explanation and great vid
Thanks for the information! This channel is excellent. These concepts can even be applied to completely atypical bikes on track like my Harley Dyna!
I have BMW G310R and I was more than ten times on a track with it. I've changed tires recently to Rosso IV Corsa and I was not too far away from guys on proper R3 with lap time 57.5s vs 55-56s for their R3 and much more experience it seemed. I'd love to have proper track bike, but I can't have two bikes and don't really have time and space to use trailer for the track bike
I hv been riding Naked bike for more than 5 years...
Now I want to try on full faired sports Bikes.
😊
where are you?? why one year to make video???!!!!!!!! great work!!!!!
Love ur explanations keep it up!
I was going to switch from my CB750 to a ZXR750RR. Really nervous though, never had to go knee down on the Honda, so I never had any practice. But in the traffic, I thankfully don't need to go that fast.
I ride 3 quite different bikes on and off track, '85 GSXR711, Suzuki SV1000S & Bimota Tesi 3D final Ed.. Other that weight and power difference I ride them much the same and pass an awful lot of newer 'better' bikes so I guess I'm doing something right - but there's always room for improvement. 😁
Keep the great content coming!
May e you could do a vid on what tracks would be good for beginners?
I've got a 790 Duke that I would love to take on a track, but I've never been! Don't know where to go or even if my I should go with my bike...
Great vid. Just bought a 1290 SDR and was wondering about this very topic.
Thank you! 😁👍 I learned a few things.
I just got rid of my ‘13 Hypermotard to go back to a ‘19 1000RR. I could never get comfortable through the mountains on the Duc, the RR I just took out today through Deckers and Pine and what an amazing machine. (Had an 09 1000RR previous) just me but I prefer a Superbike.
I love this channel, thx again.
My XSR900 did great on the track.
Thank you for making this video .
Awesome Video! I ride an 01 Honda VFR800 (Honda Intercepter) it does great at the track! Its way above my level and capability. BTW I love your videos!
I owned an old naked bike cb400sf , when I tried to turn like Iam on a supersport it was horrible and dangerous because I lean in front much more. I fix that by lean less and felt way better and faster.
I rode a CBR600rr for years. now I'm riding MT09, and it feels so weird to lean. Felt like I'm too far from the ground and make me lose confidence in the corner
Great Video !!
Rode the new 2019 S1000RR on track. Went back to my S1000R. I feel the RR is easier to ride as when I hop on it, I just "click" into position and pretty soon feel one with the bike. On my R I'm constantly wondering if I'm in the right position (have I leaned forward enough, is my head low enough, is my butt where it should be on that long seat etc.). Idk if any of this makes sense but riding the RR fast, leaning in corners etc just feels much more natural to me than on a naked bike. It's like the sports bike kind of forces you into the right position or it won't work at all, but after a while it just feels natural. It would probably still be a pain in the ass to swap the naked for a sports bike for daily use though.
Ive had a lot of fun with a BMW R9T Racer. Had the suspension stiffened up but that was all really. Slow turning but very stable.
I too have an R nine T racer and I'm curious how you went about stiffening it.. Did you end up changing the components at all?
What naked bikes dont have are aerodynamics to back up those fast twisties with an even faster top end.
The rider just wont feel comfortable fighting the storm by holding onto the handlebars - coz thats what the torso gets anchored too then.
One thing I noticed going from a sportbike to a naked bike on track is that I didnt rest my outside arm on the tank like I did on my sportbike. It felt awkward and unnatural.
Yeah takes a little getting used to. I had the same problem coming off my Daytona 675.
If it has two wheels, an engine and some kind of structure(frame) connecting all that I will try to race it :P
Mood all day😋
You profile picture fits your comment perfectly lol
Awesome video, would love a video about drag racing (and explain how to launch higher hp naked and keep the damn wheel down)
Great Vid - for an older guy, perhaps the more upright bike comfort leads to better riding - hmmmmmm.
That's what I am noticing.
Been riding on the streets since 1980,even my ZX14 is becoming a handful, thinking about the new V-Max after riding one I love it super comfy seat great power, just needs a fly screen.
@@ross5506 I want to test ride one so bad, but they never have any at the stealerships.
Yeah, I’m thinking about buying a Yamaha Tracer GT or a 790 Duke. I’ve got a Honda VFR now. Decisions, decisions!
I would agree, Andrew.
I ride my daily, a Street Triple R, on the track every few months. I need to work on clamping onto the tank with the outside leg better, will try the calf raises as mentioned in another vid. I find myself weighting the inside peg quite a lot.
Is it possible that wide flat bars help you "feel" the countersteering more directly?
Love the channel, cheers.
I have an RS, sounds familiar. I just ordered some replacement footpegs, that will allow for a better hold on the soles of my boots. Also, something like a Stompgrip will help a lot.
@@steveman1982 cheers mate. I'll look into the stompgrips. It came with Techspec pads when I bought it but they're not positioned well for track riding.
What a video. Thanks.
what are your thoughts on spring preload and damping settings? I'd love to see a video of your thoughts
I ride a street triple rx675 and I struggle to lean it. but I only been riding for 2 years
i did a track day on a Honda GROM and that was hella fun, i were faster then the others i was riding with in the conors, oh and the ones i was driving with hade much bigger bikes then 125cc
I have a 2018 RSV4 and can't help but feel that the bike is too small for me... I am 6'3 230 and i just can't get my legs/knees into the tank in a way that i'd like. Have been looking at aftermarket rearsets so i can get a deeper feel when hanging off.
Rsv4 is one of the smallest bikes. Did u not sit on it before buying it. Here nobody above 6ft even considers rsv4 as an option
Na, I just looked at it and said “Yea, I want that one”... Of course I sat on it. And test rode it. It’s not the same when you ride it hard at the track or in the canyons
@@iBwilliams2749 gotcha
Xsr900, 2 years racing
I ride my monster 1200s on track, started looking for a dedicated track bike but the transition from the monster to a superbike did not feel good. No confidence at all so i think i will stick to the monster for now.
LOL reading this a year later owning a 1198s as "track" bike makes me smile. Still the Monster is way easier to ride though
I'm riding a hypermotard with not tank to anchor into. What advice can you give for this issue?
What's a good first bike for a beginner
I am riding a Suzuki Gs500... it does not have this kind of anchoring point on the tank.... not easy for getting a proper "feeling" on the corners
Would grip pads on the outside of the tank help?
@@goopier yes.. I put a pair of it... It helps.. But doed not lock the knee
OMG... Thank you.. Thank you...
Rider height. Does it make a difference in riding position? Reason being, taller rider seem to have their body position further from the tank as opposed to shorter rider. This makes them(shorter riders) have a much better body position and makes the bike steer better....Or is it just a psychological thing that doesn't actually make any difference...
I wonder about grip differences. Mt09 front to rear balance is quite neutral, if you sit toward the rear of the front seat to get into position, does it reduce front grip during acceleration as weight is rear biased? Good illustration of this is that at Oulton, unless I practically sat on the tank I would wheely over that blind crested left hill every time
I mean acceleration from apex
Optimum weight is definitely a balance. Tyres need load to work correctly, and when you alter the load to each end it alters how well the tyres can work. I wouldn't say shifting a back a little would reach the point of dangerously low grip on the front end, though.
Tuono factory owner, trying to figure out what the limit is for leaning the bike. Worried that id im not getting my body low enough that I'm not offsetting the lean enough. What lean angle is safe for street ?