Why Women Wear Dresses and Men Wear Pants
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- Опубликовано: 31 мар 2024
- Excerpted from Lesson 1: The Revelation of Jesus Christ to the Apostle & Evangelist John the Theologian, Rev. 14: 1-5 (Series 4), by Fr. Peter Heers
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Развлечения
My Yiayia came to this country during the depression when she was just 17. She and my Papou were married and she NEVER wore pants in her life!! Always a dress! God bless her, she even cut her grass in her slippers and housecoat (below the knee!!) She was truly an amazing woman, strong and faithful to God. She taught me everything she knew about the Orthodox faith and being a Lady!
I truly miss her 😢❤
Praying that the new Antiochian Metropolitan gets rid of the dog collars and more priests wear cassocks!!
God willing….please do this
100% !
Which Metropolitan?
@@borremoonkey
Either Saba or Nikolai.
Those are the "Newest" Metropolitans
@acekoala457 ah ok. Antiochians under Met. Saba, then a more pressing matter over the collars would be ceasing communion between the Monophysites.
These lessons really help realize how FAR we've fallen away from God. Lord have mercy.
Metropolitan Neophytos of Morphou said that a Great Synod after a Great War will restore all the issues we have in the Church. Issues and abnormals of last decades but even centuries will be restored. So perhaps restoration will have an effect in all layers of society. Everything we know now and what we got adapted to now, only exists since a very short time. Jeans only exist since the end of the 19th century. There are many things we consider normal which are not because of the times we live in and were born in, unfortunately. The antichrist uses very small steps, step by step, to eventually arrive at a point of no return and capture us. But God will restore everything back to normal soon!
I live in Missouri where freezing and below freezIng temperatures are common in the winter months. Ladies: you can wear leggings or pants under your skirts or dresses. It works very well. Also please cover your heads in church. Look at the icons of our Most Holy Theotokos. Her beautiful head is always covered and her mouth is closed. She is our example of humility and holiness. Please copy her.
Well said!
I heard such a beautiful comparison recently! Mother was explaining her young daughter why she has to wear dresses and skirts while other Girls wear jeans. One of the things she said was...When are your hands warmer, when you wear mittens or gloves?She said mittens. Mother answered, excatly when your fingers are close to each other they warm each other:) so it is with wearing skirts in winter time:)
Ο Χριστός μας να σε ευλογεί. ✝️🇬🇷
Yes and petticoats are a great way to keep warm. Layering your skirts is very warm ❤
I live in a cold climate and wear skirts / dresses year round. In winter I wear a wool skirt, wool petticoat, and wool tights and I'm warmer than when I used to wear pants! In summer I wear linen dresses to stay completely covered but cool.
If woman wearing pants is fine then men wearing dresses is fine too. This is the logical conclusion of modernity. Yet many who agree with woman wearing pants would say “that’s not the same thing…” but I ask them, “How ?”
Women wearing pants is widely accepted and unremarkable nowadays, it is not considered manly or attention grabbing, but moreso practical. Men in dresses are engaging in a practice which is abnormal, not practical, overtly feminine, and attention grabbing. If it was a cultural norm that both sexes could wear either form of clothing, it would be fine. The cassock is essentially a "dress" and Jesus never wore pants. It's about what is considered humble and modest in your society, not about some absolute standard
What about the kilt?
@@johnsambo9379 Why do you have to wear a kilt to services? To show off? I don’t understand. Do you wear a kilt everywhere? Is that all you own are kilts?
@@melonyrobinson9944 thank you for stating this. If pants really grabbed a man’s attention I wouldn’t where I am today.
Priests wear dresses and you all don't seem to have a problem with that.
In my city, winter temperatures of -20°C are not uncommon. So I wear cosy maxi dresses, thick leggings, and a long down coat that's tied at the waist. Cold weather is really no excuse to start wearing pants, ladies.
Also I believe women and men should have their own gyms. Been thinking about this. Just seems right. So if women want to wear different clothes for workouts, they can and men dont have to see it. Idk just my thoughts. Great video though. Totally agree. Needs to be boundaries.
I'm a guy. Yes please.
And schools
This brought memories of Lucille Roberts, the gym for women only I went to 25 years ago in Brooklyn, NY. Men need their own spaces too. The young women today are out of control.
@@pincermovement72 this too. very underrated. i'm curious as how they'd score in terms of bullying. i think it might be a possibility that boys bully other boys more when there are girls around in order to garner attention
Absolutely. Men and women shouldn't be doing physical exercise in the same room for very obvious reasons.
My wife and I raised our daughters to always wear dresses (and the boys to wear pants ~ of course). Some have opposed that thought with, "Well, in Bible days, all men and women wore robes." That response has always been a blanket statement without any research. Back then, men and women wore distinctly different attire (let alone "robes"); and could be discerned from a distance. Another point some have shared with me is, "What about the Greek shepherds, and the Scotsmen in their kilts?" However, only the men wore that item of clothing and the women wore very modest and concealing clothing. It is no surprise that the Scripture mentions the act of homosexuality and men wearing feminine attire (and vice versa) both as abominations. The natural and God-given gender and identity of the person is distorted... Sometimes, in the middle of such discussions, I counter with, " bring your son here, and he can wear one of my daughters' dresses; then we'll take a walk in public." That seems to sink in the whole nature of the topic. God bless!
Men have worn short tunics for practical reasons throughout the ages, not for some perverse reason. The Kilt is not to be mocked by outsiders. However, the Kilt itself was not commonly worn by Scotsmen, it was normally worn by the Highland Regiments.
@@Cobruh_Commanderthose tunics are not shaped as those that us women wear ,they are completely male clothes ,Arabs wear it
So what your saying is you’re okay with men walking around in flow-y pink pants with a floral print on them and a blouse to top it off?😂 There is some truth to the blanket statement. Head coverings, facial hair, and weapons were usually the biggest differences aside from the occasional varying length of the garb.
And crop tops... a nightmare!
Shocking!!!
I am not orthodox, but I appreciate this clip. our congregation believes women should wear a dress and also not to cut their hair. For their hair is given to them for a covering.
Nature itself teaches this
I cut my hair, the ends need it and I prefer bangs so gotta cut those.
@@LadyMariayou have good taste in hairstyles
@@nickkerinklio8239 Simple and easy.
Makeup is another one of those things that women should use sparingly or not at all. That is part of modesty.
I recently turned 66, and I've noticed a trend where I live of older women dressing like teenage girls when out and about.
I wonder if this is happening elsewhere?
Well said Father. I see that some women are beginning to cover their heads outside the home as well. (Orthodox women used to normally cover their heads as well. ) These things all help women to pursue chastity, modesty and humility.
Doesn’t it make more sense they covered their hair with mandili because they worked the fields all day and didn’t want to get dirty not the humility.
@@TheodoreIosifidis-gx4qb It works for both.
@@TheodoreIosifidis-gx4qbno ,it's humility and copying Holy Theotokos,She is our guide ❤
@@SRBOMBONICA86 spoken like someone who never even seen a field forget worked one. Go to trabzon and see how those women work in the fields and then come at me again
Agree. It has been a very slippery slope. Unfortunately the wearing of pants as a woman is a very ingrained habit. It's all about convenience and habit. I love the idea of being traditional, going back to that spiritual place.
In many traditions, men wore dresses, so....
When the major Christian institutions like the Orthodox Church make bold and necessary statements like these the smaller churches will follow.
If Orthodoxy will maintain consistency, people will leave the other denominations like Lutheranism to Orthodoxy and the other denominations like Lutheranism or Anglicanism will follow in the Orthodox example or become barren.
Thank you for this, Fr Peter!
Man looks on the outside..God looks at the heart ❤
That is the problem. We men look at the outside and try to keep our minds pure. Not easy in the USA.
So True father Peter!! Very helpful and totally agree - thank You!
In my town it seems only the Amish girls dress 👗 like a true Christian women this is very bad
Thank you so much father Heers for standing up for the truth. How else are we going to fix the mess the world is in if we do not start in the house of God first. I love you 💕
This reminds me of how the Latin priests of Roman Catholicism wholesale abandoned the cassock shortly after the reforms of the 2nd Vatican Council, and with the full knowledge and consent of the papacy. Needless to say, this act alone had a massively negative impact on the clergy and laity alike. Same principle definitely applies to the traditional dress appropriate to men and women. Our "western" culture is full of mental and spiritual illness. God help the Orthodox to learn from Rome's errors!
Amen Pater ! Totally agree
I am considered as a backwater medieval man for thinking like this by my family 😂. But deep inside me I know it is how it's supposed to be, how it always has been.
I am a little surprised and shocked that God didn’t put a dress or at least tights on women and pants on Adam when he made them !! 😮
This Video was so helpful to me, I wanted to start for a long time now my modest „girly era”. I would like to see a video about Make up and what Father Peter has to say about it. Thank you so much! ☺️
It is not a good idea for women to wear make-up. Health wise, it is filled with chemicals you put on your skin which gets absorbed into the body. Then, spiritually, it is vanity. Think of where make-up began in biblical times-with those women who were harlots! They were trying to attract men for the wrong reasons. You may not have the same reasons but you may have the same response from men that you dont want, or hopefully dont want.
Totally agreed 😊
thanks Fr
Santa Matrona of Russia once gathered women around her cell yard and tutored them not to dress in modernity, not paint their faces, nor comp their hair improperly, nor wear men's clothes like pants, because for everyone of these acts there is a cloud of demons that will accuse them in from of the hly court in the time of their soul tolling.
And a woman then thought, not spoken loud of it, but just thought inside her mind that ''is it bad to wear pant when I just go out in nmy backyard and tend to my garden? Pants help me very much with the works around the house.'' And before she finished her thought, Santa matuska turn to her (Santa Matrona was blind), and said: ''you will be accused exactly for that''. And the woman froze in fear.
And I could also make up goofy things like that. "You'll be accused by demons if you eat popcorn with salted butter. Unsalted is okay, but salted is evil!!!!!!!"
We struggle enough with keeping the commands that are actually in the scriptures, so why don't we stick with those first before we go adding on arbitrary things?
@@tayh.6235
Modesty is a command in Scripture. It's not arbitrary.
The Apostolic Canons forbid makeup, androgynous dress, shaving, and many other things prevalent in today's society.
@@acekoala457 ask first whether the thing's connotation has changed. For instance, makeup can be done quite subtlety or it can be done garishly. Back centuries ago it was associated only with loose moral character, so of course Christian women would have been right to avoid it. In current times, modesty would say to avoid that makeup which is associated with promiscuity (think a Kardashian type look) but that a little mascara and naturally tinted lipgloss isn't going to create a negative opinion.
To ignore the principal behind a rule will lead to an incoherent lifestyle. Technology, customs, etc are ever changing. We have to look at the virtues we are to live out and then apply those wisely to our specific contexts. I'm not advocating tossing out all traditions, but we need to move careful about turning every custom into an unchanging particular.
@@tayh.6235 Simple hearts simply obey.
@@tayh.6235
Modern makeup practices, which is what it is, comes from the Color Revolution Bloc, which is inherently Marxist and therefore Anathematized, and we shouldn't be getting our practices from Non-Christian Sources. So I don't think it's a stretch to connect it to Promiscuity.
If we look at our Faith through a modernist lense then we will lose it.
Almost everywhere in the world, men wear trousers and women are at least free to choose what they wear. They often choose skirts or dresses. This is also true in non-Christian contexts, for example in Japan. So the explanation for this phenomenon must have a basis in ethnology, not in the Bible.
Good points Father.
There needs to be distinction, otherwise it's a mirage as to what constitutes male clothing and female clothing in the modern world. Then if it's a mirage it's no better than the secular subjectivism, there needs to be order. Are we all willing to conform to God and the order of the church, or to just be agnostic and say it doesn't matter? God help us!
AMEN
What a good point, as a young woman who has to wear pants for work i often forget the importance of wearing more feminine clothes outside of just church.
Without even disagreeing with the premise I don't see what justification is given except that it's traditional to have gender specific clothing, what we might now call "pants and dresses" although the form of those distinct clothing have changes over the centuries. My girlfriend stopped wearing pants and short shorts, etc. and started wearing skirts once she went back to the Church, her rationale given "it displeases Our Lady" and I find no fault with that, but as a doctrinal issue, I think it needs a deeper dive than five minutes.
I got a lot out of this quick overview! And sent it to my daughter who would NOT have been willing to watch a deeper dive, Im sure.
Father i have a question,can we still wear pants underneath dresses? I mean sth like loose sweatpants or similar loose items. Because i really dont want to wear tights or leggins all the time when its cold. And same goes for summer, can we wear shorts underneath dresses?
My wife has always worn dresses and head coverings, especially outside the home. I am honestly amazed by the cognitive dissonance at our church, where women wear long skirts and head coverings in service and then change into jeans for fellowship and catechumen classes. It amazes me. I basically don't hang out with some people because i know I'll judge them. Don't know what to do other than pray. My wife and i figured it out as Protestants just reading the Bible. It's not hard.
This has been weighing on me my parish doesn't require headscarves and doesn't mind pants... I have been convicted to slowly switch over my wardrobe, mostly haven't because of cost. I did sew a few pieces, though!
Switch over? To pants and no headcoverings?
That would be rather a shame and also pushy on their part, no -- especially given the Holy Tradition and example of our Saints?
It's so crazy to me that as a millennial I actually get started at certain places due to wearing clothing that was considered 'the norm' for women only 30 years ago. (Long sleeve blouses with long skirts!)
Not that I disagree with everything, but trousers were considered undergarments until about the 1400s. Originally they were considered barbaric. We wore Byzantine tunics. It kind of reminds me of when I was young and I'd go to Greece the old men would not take their shirts off at the beach. I think men are the ill example by being immodest. At this point I think it's too late for women to not wear pants in the western world. Until something great can happen I can touch their hearts and they can become self-modest without us telling them. I feel today it's very difficult to communicate most things with the fairer sex. I think that's why I keep seeing more men in church than women right now. I think we need to be examples through actions and not speech. I don't know it's very difficult
I really appreciate it-as a woman-the verbal instruction from good priests like Fr. Heers. I was never taught these things as a young person and Im trying to correct my life. How would I ever know unless someone was willing to speak up? Yet, example is so important too. Both are important.
@@eh3345 I totally agree. When I was talking to men, I wasn't talking about priests. I know I know men are priests. I find that a lot of the men have become a little zealous and constantly berate the women. By self-modesty for women I mean listening to the church fathers and spiritual mothers. Thank God for Father Peter hears and all the fathers of the church and spiritual mothers. Keep listening. I just met Layman. From them right now I think they need prayer and support. You know what I mean?
@@hesicast yes, praying for everyone!
St. Paul writes the head coverings are because of the glory and wonder of women which is so profound it caused the Angels to fall.
where
Αυτό δεν είναι αλήθεια...
Οι Άγγελοι εξεπεσαν λόγω υπερηφάνειας επειδή ο Θεός τους ζήτησε να προσκυνησουν όλοι τον Αδαμ και ο Εωσφόρος και το τάγμα του αρνήθηκαν.
I agree that men shouldn't wear women's clothing and vice versa but isn't the perception of gendered clothing relative? In some countries men wear dresses, so who is the arbiter of what consists of "male clothing"?
But the traditions of what was female attire and what was male attire is clear as pure glass if you observe historical standards.
@@TyranyFighterPatriot So society is what determines what male and female clothing is?
I agree. As others in the comments have pointed out, Jesus never wore pants, so maybe men should all be wearing dresses, actually
@@melonyrobinson9944 I absolutely hate pants, especially jeans. As a man they're so constricting and uncomfortable. I think those thobe things that Muslims wear might be pretty nice.
its a little hard to wear a dress and run or work out. however, there is an Jewish orthodox line of clothing that makes modest workout wear that had a skirt that is just below the knee and then leggings under it, and the top is not tight fitting and covers the collar bone. I'm 60 years old now and I wear pants most of the time because I have arthritis in my foot and I have to wear tennis shoes so I can walk. tennis shoes look a bit strange with a dress.
Many women wear tennis shoes with skirts-no excuse. :-)
What do you think God is thinking about your "tennis shoes look a bit strange with a dress"?
@eh3345 Right, then I go to church and get ripped for wearing tennis shoes to church. It's a no win situation. I think Jesus cares more about what's in my heart than what I wear as long as it is modest. There will come a time that you will neither worship on the mountain or in a place but in spirit. Adam and Eve were naked then used fig leafs. I think it is beautiful and wonderful to see women in church in dresses and their head covered. It's just not workable for some .
@@thevintagegypsy5325 Do you not know what Jesus does to lukewarm people? Pants are not modest on a woman. Nor is the desire to please people rather than God, or fashion.
@@Maria-Ortodoxa I really do respect your view, when I say ripped, I wore sneakers once with a skirt and the clergy got on me for wearing sneakers. I explained my situation and he didn't seem like he understood. that's what I mean by a no win situation.
Just have to say I hate dresses…I felt naked wearing them..and it has been the opposite for me..I wear pants and long t shirts! Never was into men or marrying. Believe it or not, I’m a 57 year old virgin! And happy that way! I wore a nice dress one time at a wedding and felt very u comfortable with some man looking at me. I was also inappropriately touched by a pervert waiter at hotel in Turkey when I wore a dress for dinner. So I think I’ll stick to pants and long t-shirts!
I also feel naked wearing dresses and yes, they DO make you an object of attention unless you're wearing Islamic clothing.
Father, We could have very interesting discussions on this topic together if you would care to engage me in such conversation. Interesting topic you bring up.
If only all Roman Catholic priests would give this holy instruction to their parishioners. Even some of Catholic women who wear chapel veils still wear tight pants, presenting a potential stumbling block to their brothers in Christ, something the great Theotokos certainly would frown upon.
It wouldn't change anything as there's no Holy Spirit. Heretics have no valid Sacraments, nothing. it's all just a show leading to Hell.
These brothers of which you speak need to not be so easily led to stumble.
@@ianmackenzie686no ,it's us women that need to be careful not to be a bad influence, Eve caused Adam to fall never forget it ,we women can make or break a man
@@SRBOMBONICA86
Yes but men need to be stronger and smarter even if it means leaving the room or wherever. Like substance abuse the final decision to imbibe comes down to the individual.
Both men and women wore skirts in ancient times.
as pants were invented and became far more practical for male jobs and military things changed.
Not skirts tunics ARE NOT SKIRTS
@@SRBOMBONICA86in bible called robes.
There is a proper time and a proper place for most things. In the United States and other Allied countries during World War II when women contributed to the war effort by either working in factories or in fields, safety and practicality needed to be considered.
Of course in theory Heers is spot on. But this is the real world, and Tastefully tailored and properly fashioned pants for women I believe are appropriate in the right circumstances. No, women should not wear men's pants or men's suits but women Styles as long as they're modest are fine.
What about a romper outfit? It's dress-ish
Slight tangent but Fr. Peter did mention this....Unfortunately, in the US I can probably count on one hand the number of priests that will always wear proper priest attire in public. Especially with social media, I'm seeing even so called "conservative" priests walking around in public with jeans, shorts, bathing suits at the beach, etc. It's a shame. As a rule I will not ask for the blessing of a priest who is in lay clothing. This is after reading that St. Paisios did the same when he saw a priest in the airport with regular clothing.
I never understood why women are so insistent when it comes to not wearing dresses or headcoverings. I grew up in a church similar to the menonites. The men wore suits and ties the women wore dresses and headcoverings.
The women were the first to start pushing against the "dress code."
I would rather be required to wear a head covering than a tie any day.
I still wear a tie now that I'm a catecumen. It's a bit of a hold over from how I was raised, but the Sunday best concept is part of my culture. From what I understand orthodoxy does not reject the good parts from other cultures.
Historically men and women did not always wear pants and dresses respectfully because fashion had changed overtime. Yet while men wear skirts they did always wear gender appropriate clothes.
A tunic is not a skirt
Is a kilt a skirt?
I am knew to Orthodoxy. How should men be dressed? Guidelines?
Just cover your arms, legs & torso and you'll be fine.
You will never go wrong if you are modest, covered and respectful in dress -- both for yourself, spiritually (it will help you in your thoughts if you have simple, modest dress and cease to think much about it) and for others around you. Thus, you would avoid clothing which draws a lot of attention to yourself, shows off your body, your legs, etc.
@@Cobruh_CommanderAnd nothing tight.
A woman wearing pants is a red flag. Even Saint Paisios condemns it.
Some jobs require it for women.
Well, as a woman in my 80s and converted with my whole family to orthodoxy in my 70s, I am properly shamed. 😢😢😮And let me tell you it doesn’t feel at all good and it doesn’t feel like love. so I’m supposed to emulate the holy Theotokos, and I’ve only begun to know her but I’m just pretty sure she would never shame me for having short hair and wearing pants for she is holy…
I believe now would be a good time for a lesson based on the scripture men, love your wives as Christ loved the church, and gave Himself up for her.
Besides Deuteronomy 22:5 and Holy Canon 62 of the Sixth Ecumenical Council, you can see in the video at min 25 until 25:40 the demons' reactions to women in pants. This father was killed for Christ and sadly I can't find anything translated from Russian in English. ruclips.net/video/4FL9JXKTS8U/видео.html
The video is from 2007. He was killed in 2010. He talks about electronic ID's, chips, abortions, makeup and so on. What a shame that no one has translated it into English yet!
I get cold really easily, wearing dresses even with tights is difficult for me as I get freezing, is it okay to wear pants in this case?
Look into merino wool leggings! It keeps me warm in the cold NY winters under skirts and dresses.
Wear pants underneath a long dress. It is no longer a problem them.
@@S.Marinkathank you ❤
They have all kinds of leggings/tights these days. As mentioned - wool - or fleece, etc. I usually wear thicker cotton leggings with thigh high wool leg warmers over my leggings which helps a lot as it’s double layered.
I live in cold climate (canada) and wear dresses/skirts all winter, with leggings and socks. A long coat helps.
What about kilts? Kilts are meant to be worn specifically by men.
The men’s kilts and the women’s skirts were different. If you look historically into it you’ll see women’s were longer and more modest.
Almost no one wears a kilt in modern society.
Do you prefer mini dress over a nice pair of pants???
This can't be real...💀
I can assure you most orthodox priests wouldn't advocate this
Women wearing pants or jeans is not considered masculine. It's better than booty shorts and leggings Some jobs alo require women to wear pants.
You’ve got some persuading to do in Scotland and Greece then.
They are exceptional cases. Kilts aren't worn regularly outside of the Highland Reguments regardless.
Kilts are not skirts
@SRBOMBONICA86 Sure they are. Plus men traditionally wear nothing underneath them.
@@johnsambo9379 nope
Men wearing pants makes it very visible too 😂😂
What would you propose?
Of course, men can also be immodest. Pants can be modest and immodest.
Which Church is Fr. Here’s a priest in? Antiochian?
Heers, not Here’s, sorry
@@eh3345Originally Greek, now ROCOR, I believe.
With all due respect..
But didn't men in Jesus's time wear robes , ... not pants ?
It's both, a working man such as a fisherman or carpenter, or farmer would not have been wearing pants (not like modern jeans or anything, think alladin), only the merchant class and above would have been wearing robes regularly.
A robe is not a dress.
@@levitatingpotato109Not necessarily Aladdin, more like short tunics.
@@Cobruh_Commander I'm thinking more Persian than Greek, the Persian style was more popularized with the rise of byzantine culture. Just looked it up though, they would pull the tunic around their legs like shorts when they were doing manual labor though (there's a word for It but idk what).
@user-mi5wd7bg9ethat's what an apron is for. Meat butchers, chefs, housewives, gardeners.
When scrubbing laundry on a washing board, even back in the day heavy duty aprons were worn when doing things that can make your clothes dirty.
Recently I was at a Serbian Parish and I was a bit scandalized by how certain women were dressed, for example one very attractive woman wore a tight, form-fitting dress that was ankle length however was cut up the sides well above the knee. She did not need any help drawing more attention to herself. She was attractive enough to where she could have dressed incredibly modest and still would have gotten all the attention she wanted if that's what she wanted.
She may be the next St Mary of Egypt or St Photini. It is not good to be judgmental of anyone and be scandalized easily. We do not know how God is working in their lives. It is better to focus on our sins and weaknesses.
My point has to do with the fact that some people might be missing the mark in how they dress, thinking that it is modest by the letter of the law but certainly not in the spirit of the law as it were. That is how my comment relates to the content of this video. I'm very glad for anyone who is attending Divine liturgy but I also would prefer that women not dress like they're going to a night club afterwards. Children do not need to see that stuff either. I agree that we cannot change how many people may choose to dress.
@@TranslatedAssumption
These problems are solved in islam , women wear modest clothes (hijab) and lower their gaze as will as men.
@@TranslatedAssumptionit's awful truly how people dress
@@S.Marinkawe have to focus on others too,someone should always guide us help us when we make a mistake
When fr posted this on IG there were women who were defending wearing pants. It’s amazing, it shows how rebellious some women are, even some who claim to be Christian. And it also shows how normal it has become in society, like, it’s not even seen as immodest, when most pants for women are tight.
Any breakdown why and when stopped wearing more modest tunics? Perhaps girding for work/war but hasn’t the more immodest pants for men been directed by fashion?
A process -- of westernization/europeanization/americanization of Orthodox peoples from traditional lands - over hundreds of years, but especially since the 1950s (at least in the villages in Greece).
Trousers are the norm in western/northern Europe where it gets VERY cold during the winter. The robes help with airflow in the heat but not so much in the cold when you need to keep in heat.
@@OrthodoxEthos Father, is it ok if we wear leggings or looser pant like garments underneath dresses? Please it would be great if you answered, i know you are probably very busy
I dont disagree, but dont Greek men wear kilts as part of their national costume?
That's only one group to my knowledge, they are an exceptional case.
@@Cobruh_Commander and south Albanians have it too. And scottish... and when you realize that long ago trousers were considered barbaric and togas or robes were preferred.
I think one should speak generally and say there that should be gendered clothing that is modest, no matter what that looks like.
@@clmberserker245Scotsmen don't normally wear kilts outside of the Highland Regiments, trousers are the norm for western/northern Europe because Togas and tunics suck for keeping the heat in, that's a fact.
@@Cobruh_Commander im just being pedantic over Father perhaps being also so. i agree with gender dimorphism in clothing, but there are other ways how that may look like besides the generic western (or shall i say "western") dresses vs pants. that's all i wanted to say.
@clmberserker245 you are just looking for any excuse literally any to wear what you want and not how God wants it
I was always told it was because a woman with her dress up can run a lot faster than a man with his pants down.
Unless your in the clergy! Lol! Couldn't resist
A ryasa isn't a dress..
@@LadyMaria dress is only a name...and I know, that's why the "LOL", lol!
@@sifu9683 It's not funny at all. It's actually rather childish.
@@LadyMaria it is, and your opinion is justified. Tnk for your reply!
I believe women should cover their heads in church. I believe everyone should dress as nice as possible for God when attending church. But if women have to wear to dresses, then men have to wear dresses. I have never seen early paintings of the church that showed men wearing trousers. Men's clothes might have been called "robes", but they were still gowns, dresses, whatever you want to call them. Please explain why men are granted the right to wear pants now and women are not. There are pants that are appropriate and are not cut tight for both men and women. Clothes should never be revealing, but I dont understand how you can say it is okay for mens clothes to change, but not women’s.
Wearing pants in western society was scandalous at first decades ago. Dresses were part of a woman's attire and only in recent decades have women started wearing trousers. This is known to the older generation.
My father and mother, both in their 60s were raised in the Dominican Republic and it was a big deal when women started wearing pants. The heterodox Christians in that country (and I'm sure all of Latin America) were very scandalized. Also, this is definitely NOT only Fr. Peter's opinion as many in our Church have spoken about this issue.
As an orthodox christian, I've never heard anyone complain about women in pants. Your point about modesty is exactly right. Women wearing pants is perfectly moral and normal
A ryasa is not a dress! Geesh.
Well said. The issue is CROSS DRESSING. When I wear modest pants made for women I don't look like a cross dresser.
Ο Χριστός μας να μας ευλογεί όλους. Δεν είναι μόνο τα παντελόνια που δεν πρέπει να φορούν οι γυναίκες, είναι και τα κοντά φορέματα, τα εξωπλατα και τα εξωστηθα. Επίσης δεν πρέπει να βάφουν το πρόσωπο, τα νύχια και τα μαλλιά τους. Δεν πρέπει να χρησιμοποιουν βραχιόλια, κολιέ και δαχτυλίδια αλλά μόνο το Σταυρό τους να φορούν.
Παρακαλώ μια προσευχή υπέρ ιασεως. (Ασημίνα)
Στεναχωριεμαι για την Αμερική... Μεγάλες συμφορες την περιμένουν και θα καταστραφεί...
We must always pray and live in faith and hope. Even if the whole world will be destroyed, the Lord said His kingdom is not of this world. The Lord did not become incarnate so that we would live comfortably on earth but so that through Him we would find healing and salvation from the sickness of sin and deliverance from death. Often the more difficult life becomes, the easier it is to turn to God and grow in faith.
What Is Wrong With Wearing A Bra??? It's A Lot More Modest Than Having Your Breasts Flop Around!!! That's Beyond Ridiculous!!! Shalom And Amen!✝️✝️🛐🛐📛🕊️🕊️🕊️❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥🤰🤱🧬🤰🤱✨👑✨🦁🦁🦁❣️❣️❣️🌺🌺🌺😇🌟🤗🙏🙏🙏🇨🇦🇮🇱♾️🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🗽🦅‼️
So we can't wear our wedding ring either? That makes no sense.
Men would have to abide those rules too, no "jewelry" except cross and wedding ring.
I wear a fitness tracker and bracelet my husband gave me. Nothing wrong with this.
what about winter, are the ladies supposed to freeze?
I only wear skirts and dresses and I live in NY. I did not freeze yet. Still alive and well!
That's when they can wear things like leggings, which are really just an undergarment, there's also petticoats, which are underskirts, and thicker taller socks. In the world of women's apparel they have plenty of things to deal with winter.
Ask a Scotsman about winter. They do fine, and a kilt comes only to the top of the knee.
a well regimented Kilt is supposed to go the center of the Kneecap, not above@@bsdnfraje
@@baelischthebard682 I'm not going to waste time arguing over an inch and a half, but you have fun. At the center of the knee cap, the pleats will contact the back of the calves on a quick march and lead to unnecessary chafing.
Father forgive me, I don't mean to argue with a priest, however, I disagree. My husband and I are both Orthodox and indeed I met him wearing pants and continue wearing pants even through our marriage. I believe he is a good husband, and yet it sounded as though you had condemned women to be unable to find good husbands when wearing pants. Additionally, I have been sexually harassed wearing skirts in my younger years. Men would say things like (forgive the vulgarity of this quote) "women should wear skirts more because it is easy access" skirts/dresses can and do cause men temptation, and wearing skirts can at times cause some women discomfort because of that. Now, I do firmly believe in wearing skirts to church. I am old fashioned in the sense that I prefer my more formal attire to be dresses or skirts, but in every day life pants are more practical, especially on the farm. I am surprised at the way this video represented women. To me this message sounded arrogantly judgmental, condemning, and came across more like a soap box than a message of humility and love. I don't normally do this, but as you are a priest who has committed himself to living and teaching Christ, I believe keeping my honesty and boldness from you does you a disservice in your mission. When you teach, teach with kindness, love and tenderness for Christ and for those who are listening, please do not judge nor condemn, rather, reflect humbly on whether the message and your portrayal of it is an opinion of arrogance and ego or a message from our good and loving GOD, for patience, kindness, humility and grace is much easier to learn from than man's opinion.
We can wear leggings under the skirts, then the guys who are perverted like that have nothing to talk about.
When I was a teenager I had to wear dresses. It was just a few years before women started to wear jeans and the same happened to me. I was not only harassed, but also raped by some lads who always hung around the school. Later one of them got arrested. I started to wear pants, I did not want to look like a woman, and never wore dresses anymore.
@@renatemocza7195 To be treated in that way is truly horrific, too many of us have been forced to endure the evils of another's temptation. It is a life long burden of intense and lasting fear, and pain that we must carry (through no fault of our own) for the rest of our lives. May Christ have mercy and free us from the grief and trauma.
@@greaterthanme876 Thank You, God bless!
Excuses excuses excuses,you are not truly Orthodox
As an orthodox christian, this is stupid. Men should not wear dresses. Duh. However, women wearing pants has been in public consciousness since the 1860s, and has been common since the 1950s. It is not distracting or overly masculine for a woman to wear pants. Are ripped skinny jeans appropriate for church? No, but that doesnt mean a flowy pair of slack is out of place. Pants are not worn by women as an attempt to be manly, they are worn because they are comfortable and convenient. This is a non-issue, and I hope non-orthodox who see this video dont take it as a representation of our faith
A dress is more comfortable..
@@LadyMaria that's subjective
@@melonyrobinson9944 you are wrong and don't respect rules of Orthodoxy
@@SRBOMBONICA86 what am I wrong about? And what "rules of orthodoxy"? Is there a Canon on this? Some place in scripture or the church fathers that discusses it? If so, please enlighten me
I know. This is an embarrassment for Orthodoxy. The issue is cross dressing. What exactly constitutes ''cross dressing'' various from culture to culture and era to era. Today, women wearing pants isn't considered cross dressing.
1:34 Father i would argue that, women wearing dresses today would catch more eyes than women being half naked or wearing tight clothing.
For two reasons;
1. Obviously it's not the norm anymore and very very rare to see a woman wearing a dress outside of formal occations.
2. We've become so accustomed to women wearing revealing clothing, that women wearing dresses would catch more eyes from men. Because in an absence of sex differences, a woman wearing a dress is very feminime.
Ofcourse this also depends on what kind of dress a woman is wearing.
If you catch eyes for dressing modestly that's not such a bad thing
Obedience to the traditional forms and imitation of the saints = narrow path.
IF the narrow path is rare... is this a surprise?
I'm not going to wear pants to church so that's the guy's issue, not mine. He can look away.
@@LadyMaria where did i say it was an issue?
@@zaarongaming8174 i never said it was a bad thing
I think saying pants sexualizes the women ruins your argument. Dresses can do the same thing. Leave that out of your argument next time.
Wearing a dress should not be imposed though. A woman has to feel that she is chosing it for the right reasons. If she does not understand why, she will have a journey to get there.
Hi Rose Good morning. I hope my comment didn't sound as a form of privacy invasion your comment tells of a wonderful woman with a beautiful heart which led me to comment I don't normally write in the comment section but I think you deserve this complement. If you don’t mind can we be friends? Thanks God bless you….🌺🌺🌺
There are pants that are modest, combined with certain blouses... the point is not the piece of item (bear in mind, men did NOT wear pants as well) in the ancient church, and were forbidden to do so. Modesty is beyond dress or pant. And there are certainly female pants and blouses. As long as the clothes are not made to emphasize bodily parts in a certain manner then we should get over it. Spirituality is not micromanagement.
Didn’t a female Saint who was in the military wear pants.
St Xenia wore her husbands uniform
You can't make a rule out of an exception.
@nikosantikythera2422 Im aware.
And Saint Xenia wore his top coat not the pants part
Traditionally, women were not in the military.
When they began to serve, they did -- but that is it that long ago that this became the norm?
In any case, it is an exception and not the rule.
It is for a very small percentage of women.
It is most likely not for you - unless you are in the military, right?
And if you were/are in the military, you are free to dress modestly at home, at church, outside of military service, no?
Pants are barbarian to begin with lol
Yet you speak a "barbarian" tongue, interesting. Do you wear T-shirts also? Those aren't Greek in origin. Pants are superior to tunics in cold weather.
I completely agree with this 😂 pants are the devils invention
I bike to church🚲 Skirts and dresses just aren't practical for biking.
It's dangerous for long flowy fabric to be caught in the gears, and you can't pedal efficiently in a long tight skirt.
I don't care what you call me, nothing can stop me from biking all the way there in trousers and sneakers/rainboots just to spend some time in the house of God.
Bike away, no one can force you to do God's will. But you will also not be able to say you did not know.
@@Maria-Ortodoxa Pants are not a big deal I dont understand. its pants, women's pants are very distinct from men's pants. There's no way God has a will for pants
@@tylerward2846 Besides Deuteronomy 22:5 and Holy Canon 62 of the Sixth Ecumenical Council, you can see in the video at min 25 until 25:40 the demons' reactions to women in pants. This father was killed for Christ and sadly I can't find anything translated from Russian in English. ruclips.net/video/4FL9JXKTS8U/видео.html
@@Maria-Ortodoxa The Scottish kilt is a national garment worn by males. In the same way there are skirts for men, there are pants for women. In fact, the traditional clothing for women of other cultures also include pants. As an example, everyone in Mongolia, males and females alike, started riding horses at a young age. All of them wore pants on a horse, underneath a cloak-like outer garment for warmth and insulation.
You could bring a backpack with a skirt stuffed inside. Just my two cents, unless you already tried that.
Its normal for priest to wear a cassock to costco or when out eating? kinda defeats the whole purpose of not drawing attention to oneself. would like to know why this is not the case
Priests are supposed to let others know they are a priest, its like a soldier wearing their rank on their uniform so that you know how to adress them. How are you going to know to ask for their blessing if you don't even know they are a Priest, they don't just lose their ecclesiastical rank simply because they exit the church, unlike the western tradition, you don't have 2 separate lives when you are Orthodox.
Yes, it’s normal.
My priest has had strangers on the beach approach him for help because they could see by his cassock that he was a priest.
Always. It is who they are. They are always priests. They are never "off-duty."
The cassock is a witness. Drawing attention to it is not at all the same as drawing attention to yourself/your body for selfish reasons.
Isn't there a difference between the attention a policeman in uniform draws to himself and a prostitute draws to herself, for example?
i thought this was going to be interesting, but it just turned out kinda dumb.
For thousands of years men and women wore a Tunica, there were no pants. Jesus didn't wear pants. None of the apostles did.
So the question shouldn't be if women should wear pants, but if anybody should.
You are not Orthodox,just leave our videos alone ,your German arrogance doesn't belong here
@@SRBOMBONICA86that doesn't really matter. I'm orthodox, and I agree
I'm gonna be frank with everyone. A female NEVER looked like a women in pants, nor a male manly in blouses. 🤔
Did Jesus look masculine in his tunic?
Yea I bet he did. Jesus wasn't wearing women's blouses 😅
@@TyranyFighterPatriot I don't have a problem with preventing men from wearing blouses. But the point is that clothing appearing masculine or feminine is, to a point, subjective. Men wearing women's clothing is attention seeking and overly feminine in our current culture/society/time. However, women wearing pants is perfectly normal and not overly masculine. If a man wear women's clothing it is because he wants to look feminine. The same is not true for women wearing what has, in the past, been characterized as "men's clothing", aka pants
False. I had some hope for understanding my point but no more. I will be clearer.
Women wearing pants is the the same as men wearing blouses and vice versa. Christendom has ways held this, before the dark embracement of the poison that is Liberalism and Humanism by peoples. It's not even an argument its a fact that will never change.
Appreciate the spirit, but there are plenty of Orthodox cultures where everyone wore some kind of dress-like tunic. Sexual differences were expressed in different ways. Same thing with pants. Women in this culture wear pants. Period. I wish it were different, but that's not the hill to die on. How about we just emphasize women not wearing disgusting skin tight leotards/workout hot pants/bodysuits everywhere all the time now?
Nope ,many women wear dresses much more😊
I don’t see the problem with shorts, they’re practical and functional, allow more range of movement, help cool the testicles which keeps them healthy. I only wear trousers if I am ill and it is exceptionally cold, else I wear shorts year round including winter, rain etc.
At church it's inappropriate.
@@LadyMaria Why? I see nothing in Scripture which prohibits shorts. There is a difference between cultural traditions and Scripture.
@@HighCarbDiabeticV We're not Sola Scriptura for one, and two, it's casual wear. We don't wear casual wear at church. Our Parish says no to men in shorts. It's unseemly and draws attention. My husband wears shorts usually but loves God and wears pants to church.
@@LadyMaria Why do you think God adheres to the ever changing fashion standards of man? Standards which often stem from wealthy sexual degenerates of the past, whose fashion standards filtered down over the ages? Christ and the apostles would be thrown out and turned around by nearly every ‘church’ today. The book of James might help you.
@@HighCarbDiabeticV As a Bishop giving a homily at a Divine Liturgy I was at once said, "No one wants to see your ugly legs, men." He said it with a chuckle.
When we love God we dress modestly to participate in the Divine Services. It is where we meet the King of All..why would we skimp on that?
Shorts are also distracting and show that the person might think that the services are not a big deal. You and most can afford at least one pair of pants but you make excuses not to wear them. That's prideful rebellion talking. Modest dress doesn't need to be expensive or flashy, and many times isn't, so there's no excuse there either. Many people who are very poor in third world countries will have at least one outfit for Sunday attire because they love God and the services mean something to them. This also separates that day from the rest, setting it aside for God.
If you are Orthodox, you should understand this, that we should not do the lowest common denominator in our communal worship to God.
You can keep hurling excuses here but ultimately you will need to choose, your wants, or what is right. May God bless you. Goodnight.
Father in the beginning of christianity everyone were dresses. The clothes one's choose to wear won't save or damn someone. Saint Xenia was dressed with dead's military husband's clothes, Saint Mary of Egypt was naked in the desert. Pants are late fashion item. I totally agree men should be men and women should be women but clothes are not dogma.
Tight pants were never worn like now ,it's immoral,we should cover like our Holy MOTHER ,we mimick Her
A robe is not a dress!!
@@melonyrobinson9944That's Fr. Peter.
At Divine Services no one should wear tight clothing. Modesty matters.
@melonyrobinson9944 You should mind your own business and stop imposing your view to other women. No one made you fashion police in the church.
@@LadyMaria i suspect you're the type of woman who is scanning other women in the church rather than paying attention to the liturgy.
YES ... ONLY WOMEN WERE DRESSES❗ BUT THE MEN SHOULD NEVER WERE DRESSES OR CLOTHING THAT LOOKS LIKE A DRESS❗ CASSOCK LOOKS LIKE A DRESS and is therefore NOT biblical❗ WOMEN were dresses and MEN were pants❗
Robes were worn in Holy Scripture. A ryasa is a robe..
It's just clothes, it has nothing to do with your faith
We should dress well as we can for God.
Total garbage. Jesus wore a dress. Worry what covers your heart not your body
No. Christ wore clothes appropriate for modesty within a 1st Century Judean Context.
Menswear and womenswear has always been different.
No one knew what Jesus wore, that is total garbage
A robe or cloak is not a dress.
Our examples - the Lord, the Theotokos, the saints - cared for what covered their body for the sake of the soul, out of spiritual concerns. There is no opposition or dichotomy.
@@acekoala457women in the 21st century can wear pants modestly
@@brandonedwards1181so I guess the icons just gave him random clothing then?
ironic this 'father' says this while he wears a dress
It’s a cassock
@@dylanarmour6727 its a dress and its gay as hell
You have never seen or met a priest?
If you think that is a dress then you don't know what a dress is.. A ryasa is robe-like.
@@LadyMariawell, it's definitely not pants
Also Jesus never wore pants either
For a guy in a dress, he's really adamant about women wearing dresses and men wearing pants 🙄
It's a cassock, not the same at all. But I suspect you don't care, only enough to mock.
You have never seen or met a priest?
what's the difference? @@Cobruh_Commander
@@Cobruh_Commanderthe point is, it's not pants. Jesus didn't wear pants. The idea of church clothing is to be modest and humble, not to conform to dressing practices that women started ditching as early as the 1860s