Do tell me if I'm wrong, but against delvers can't you use value grindstone activations to deny your opponents from drawing cards that will lose you the game?I know 3 mana is a lot to ask for so little, but when actively dying use anything to stem the bleed right?
You can, but often if you are using all your mana to stop a Delver from flipping while growing your opponent's graveyard AND not advancing your own gameplan, that does not bode well for you.
I personally feel like this deck has the wrong large top end artifacts. If you want an army in a can i think either myr battlesphere or wurmcoil for the lifelink, as you mentioned sundering titan would be a really good way to blow out the opponents lands (maybe as a side board card) personally i would go for just having chaos defiler and portal to phyrexia and replacing the last big hitter with dragon engine as this gives you really good removal and portal is an inevitability engine that helps return painter or other creatures like engineer
@@gabrote42 i agree. I mainly mentioned sphere and wurmcoil if people wanted to stay in spirit of the deck requesters vision but personally i would only ever have sundering titan as a sideboard card against decks that plan to go slow or have greedy mana bases (basically control). I think the only actual big maindeckable silly top end artifact is portal to phyrexia since its a wrath and win condition in a can
@@gabrote42 as well as eldrazi not really caring sundering i think would do poorly against decks are more agressively slanted. Delver style tempo decks has often not actually cared about having many lands and can operate quite easilly on one or two lands
My question part way through the league is what purpose do the "big fatty" creature serve in the deck? Are they supposed to be token value engines with Welder? If so, why not play Myr Battlesphere for more tokens (to make saga tokens better) and a creature that can deal damage directly through blockers? Are they just high damage creatures? If so, there are other artifact creatures that have interesting interactions or value worth considering. Blightsteel can be reanimated with the instant speed abilities of welder/Engineers in response to its shuffle trigger and. Phyrexian Fleshgorger is a 7/5 menace lifelink with a massive ward cost (pay life = power) that *could* be hard cast with prototype if the deck went RB rather than mono red. Sundering Titan is and always has been extremely rude. Inkwell Leviathan laughs at removal and the typical big blue creatures like Murktide. Blaster Hulk is an 8/8 with haste. Platinum Emperion or Platinum Angel can sometimes completely blank opposing decks who aren't prepared for them. Yes Chaos Defiler is probably the single best artifact creature to put in that slot in terms of flexible recursive removal, but there are a lot more options for the "fun slots" than just token makers.
@@lysander3262 Huh. It's been so long since I went through that ability carefully I didn't realize it's worded differently than most of the other self-shuffle effects. It is a replacement while I thought it was a trigger like Worldspine or an original Eldrazi titan
13:20 I think you punted. You had enough mana to make a construct with urza's saga, which you could then have used to get painter out of the yard with one of your goblins, turning on pyroblast to counter Gaea's will
As someone who is experimenting with putting a combo into a Stompy shell, is Painter something to think about for that? I have always seen Painter Decks more as Goblin Welder decks that happen to have a combo finish as an out. I usually see them controlling more with Welder tricks.
Vault 21: House Gambit may be more suited to this deck than Thrill of Possibility. It's card disadvantage, but getting to loot on two consecutive turns could do a better job of pitching Triplicate etc than Thrill. If the game goes long enough to make some treasures, that's just great, too.
round 2 opp plays delver you straight up say it flips next turn if they set it up right... grindstone x2 untapped with mana for both.... it doesn't just need to be used as the win... could have ripped apart the top decks
You can, but often if you are using all your mana to stop a Delver from flipping while growing your opponent's graveyard AND not advancing your own gameplan, that does not bode well for you.
From the opening deck break down writing this comment 👌 I just remembered about a year or 2 ago phil claiming 3 ball Fuks 😳 and i cant help to not think that same thing when i see this list and feel that adding afew could really up the win percentage.
This deck is the same basic idea as my Osgir edh deck. Artifacts reanimator is a fun architype but you ran into basically all the same issues. Ive never found Stone Idol compelling but maybe stuff like Wurmcoil makes more sense in a multiplayer format where you can get several loops of it.
In game 1, couldnt you have not attacked with 1 welder? Just ancient tomb creates saga token, welder welds saga token into painter, Painter paints blue, double blast is online?
Haven’t gotten to the games yet, but faithless looting doesn’t seem good in this deck? Outside of the 3 top end artifacts, its still just a normal painter deck, and I think you’d rather not just lose card advantage?
The shuffler on this platform, literally makes me close your vids 13 mins in, no artifact drawn. Every vid, some absurd shuffler fact. That NOT how random works. Likely facts happen more than unlikely. Not the other way arround.
I mean, his first card in the league he drew was an artifact. He drew a few game one. He just didn't in game two when he needed it, which makes sense because he had 16 artifacts in his deck including lands game 2. Bad beats drive me crazy in this game, but I don't think this was particularly bad.
Keep in mind that most "unlikely" things in Magic aren't all that unlikely in the grand scheme of probability. So while some pretty unlikely things happen in this league (and many other leagues I play), many times those unlikely things are still 1% to occur; that's, still pretty common, all things considered.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
"That is something you are legally allowed to do." is the magic version of "bless your heart."
Demand answers > thrill of possibility
Problem is demand answers demands an answer but thrill of possibilities is a thrill of possibilities.
Niiiiiice
True, that's strictly better
Is there a reason we're 4x thrill of possibility over the strictly better demand answers?
Nice find, and good with my new pet painter one-of Legion Extruder
Tru
I feel like this deck could replace a fetch or a mountain with Arena of Glory as well. Seems powerful with the welders
R1G2 at the 13:25 mark, why not activate Urza's Saga create a token then sac the token with Engineer to get Painter so then pyroblasts are live?
Silent Gravestone prevents targeting cards in graveyards
Do tell me if I'm wrong, but against delvers can't you use value grindstone activations to deny your opponents from drawing cards that will lose you the game?I know 3 mana is a lot to ask for so little, but when actively dying use anything to stem the bleed right?
You can, but often if you are using all your mana to stop a Delver from flipping while growing your opponent's graveyard AND not advancing your own gameplan, that does not bode well for you.
Sweet deck. Maybe could use a Sundering Titan in the sideboard to come in vs red decks?
I personally feel like this deck has the wrong large top end artifacts. If you want an army in a can i think either myr battlesphere or wurmcoil for the lifelink, as you mentioned sundering titan would be a really good way to blow out the opponents lands (maybe as a side board card) personally i would go for just having chaos defiler and portal to phyrexia and replacing the last big hitter with dragon engine as this gives you really good removal and portal is an inevitability engine that helps return painter or other creatures like engineer
Sundering loses to Eldrazi if they don't have the forest, and battlesphere is not very good against no removal, but the rest are logical
@@gabrote42 i agree. I mainly mentioned sphere and wurmcoil if people wanted to stay in spirit of the deck requesters vision but personally i would only ever have sundering titan as a sideboard card against decks that plan to go slow or have greedy mana bases (basically control). I think the only actual big maindeckable silly top end artifact is portal to phyrexia since its a wrath and win condition in a can
@@gabrote42 as well as eldrazi not really caring sundering i think would do poorly against decks are more agressively slanted. Delver style tempo decks has often not actually cared about having many lands and can operate quite easilly on one or two lands
Other people have mentioned it but demand answers is a lot better than thrill, especially could've changed things in round 5
My question part way through the league is what purpose do the "big fatty" creature serve in the deck? Are they supposed to be token value engines with Welder? If so, why not play Myr Battlesphere for more tokens (to make saga tokens better) and a creature that can deal damage directly through blockers? Are they just high damage creatures? If so, there are other artifact creatures that have interesting interactions or value worth considering. Blightsteel can be reanimated with the instant speed abilities of welder/Engineers in response to its shuffle trigger and. Phyrexian Fleshgorger is a 7/5 menace lifelink with a massive ward cost (pay life = power) that *could* be hard cast with prototype if the deck went RB rather than mono red. Sundering Titan is and always has been extremely rude. Inkwell Leviathan laughs at removal and the typical big blue creatures like Murktide. Blaster Hulk is an 8/8 with haste. Platinum Emperion or Platinum Angel can sometimes completely blank opposing decks who aren't prepared for them.
Yes Chaos Defiler is probably the single best artifact creature to put in that slot in terms of flexible recursive removal, but there are a lot more options for the "fun slots" than just token makers.
Blightsteel's shuffle is a replacement effect, not a trigger
@@lysander3262 Huh. It's been so long since I went through that ability carefully I didn't realize it's worded differently than most of the other self-shuffle effects. It is a replacement while I thought it was a trigger like Worldspine or an original Eldrazi titan
I like these recommended rounds
13:20 I think you punted. You had enough mana to make a construct with urza's saga, which you could then have used to get painter out of the yard with one of your goblins, turning on pyroblast to counter Gaea's will
Silent Gravestone stops this line.
10:40, is it not better to play the Mire over basic? Due to the info? I know its small and probably does not matter much.
In round 1, game 2, you could have goblin engineered the saga token to get painter and the piroblast the Gaea's will.
As someone who is experimenting with putting a combo into a Stompy shell, is Painter something to think about for that? I have always seen Painter Decks more as Goblin Welder decks that happen to have a combo finish as an out. I usually see them controlling more with Welder tricks.
Also the throwing goblin that lets you toss things after attacks could also be nice in here😂
Vault 21: House Gambit may be more suited to this deck than Thrill of Possibility. It's card disadvantage, but getting to loot on two consecutive turns could do a better job of pitching Triplicate etc than Thrill. If the game goes long enough to make some treasures, that's just great, too.
Very risky, especially since Demand Answers is card advantage with tokens, but interesting nonetheless
round 2 opp plays delver you straight up say it flips next turn if they set it up right... grindstone x2 untapped with mana for both.... it doesn't just need to be used as the win... could have ripped apart the top decks
You can, but often if you are using all your mana to stop a Delver from flipping while growing your opponent's graveyard AND not advancing your own gameplan, that does not bode well for you.
At the end of the video.. looks like lightning bolt is at an all time premium in Legacy 😂.
From the opening deck break down writing this comment 👌 I just remembered about a year or 2 ago phil claiming 3 ball Fuks 😳 and i cant help to not think that same thing when i see this list and feel that adding afew could really up the win percentage.
@13:21, make a saga token, Goblin Engineer it into a painter, and you have two counterspells???
Silent Gravestone stops the targeting of the Painter in grave unfortunately
The "reccomended round" you're doing now had got me to subscribe, big fan (sorry I'm not watching the whole videos lol)
Is there some injoke that I am unfamiliar with or why is it almost always round 4 that is the recommended watch?😅
14:00 why not trade urza token for painter?
silent gravestone
Thanks phil from the future! 😊
This deck is the same basic idea as my Osgir edh deck. Artifacts reanimator is a fun architype but you ran into basically all the same issues. Ive never found Stone Idol compelling but maybe stuff like Wurmcoil makes more sense in a multiplayer format where you can get several loops of it.
In game 1, couldnt you have not attacked with 1 welder?
Just ancient tomb creates saga token, welder welds saga token into painter, Painter paints blue, double blast is online?
I believe there was a Silent Gravestone in play.
@ yeah i was being stupid :D
In round one why does Phil not call it Mono black saga storm? Isn't that the deck they are playing?
8:45 he does
This is almost exactly how I built my Svella EDH deck other than the Painter Combo. Really strange seeing it as a Legacy deck
Gotta love Legacy decks that do meaningful things in games.
I will never understand why you didnt cut down on reb effects on game one.
Yess... *YES*
I'd run a Portal to Phyrexia if you don't wanna run wurmcoil, otherwise implement what the other comments said like Demand Answers
Haven’t gotten to the games yet, but faithless looting doesn’t seem good in this deck? Outside of the 3 top end artifacts, its still just a normal painter deck, and I think you’d rather not just lose card advantage?
I feel like this deck lost to mana issues in almost every game.
ngl this sideboard looks kinda sus to many moon effects and red blast and no way to deal with storm wich is Painter worse Mu.
Thanks for the video
The shuffler on this platform, literally makes me close your vids
13 mins in, no artifact drawn.
Every vid, some absurd shuffler fact. That NOT how random works.
Likely facts happen more than unlikely. Not the other way arround.
I mean, his first card in the league he drew was an artifact. He drew a few game one. He just didn't in game two when he needed it, which makes sense because he had 16 artifacts in his deck including lands game 2. Bad beats drive me crazy in this game, but I don't think this was particularly bad.
Keep in mind that most "unlikely" things in Magic aren't all that unlikely in the grand scheme of probability. So while some pretty unlikely things happen in this league (and many other leagues I play), many times those unlikely things are still 1% to occur; that's, still pretty common, all things considered.
Pretty sure it's the Arena one that's rigged according to statistics