One of the most important factors making wrathmongers so tanky in melee, is their insane melee defense. they can get 80+ melee defense if you go down the red lord skill line with most khorne lords. They genuinely have higher melee defense than most lords and heroes in the game. Also 50+ movement speed for an infantry unit is crazy.
Wrathmongers are terrifying, the rors can solo kugath healing himself to the healing cap, and they are in a good shape after that, they can fight on. And the fact arbaal makes then unbreakable makes them even more insane
Imo I think the khornegors deserve a little more praise for their worth on the battlefield. In my experience they delete pretty much all large entities with both of their melee attack buffs active, and while they are admittedly ass against infantry, I don't think you can go wrong with two in any army at least until midgame. On the other hand though, idk what you see in the skullreapers considering they're (I beleive) worse variants of bloodletters and don't really fill a hole in the khorne roster (seriously CA just give them SOMETHING unique) that aside though, I think anyone can agree that for what it is, the slaughterbum is embarrassingly bad. Just a stripped down multilith imo. It's the unit that really needs a change for me. Thanks for the vid cultist!
@@CultistOfkhorne it makes no sense, Blood Shrines -> Skullcannons -> Soul Grinders should be the chain, as it was before, makes sense from the theme and tier perspective, Bloodcrushers should be t4 that upgrades to Bloodthirsters at t5. CA just rushed this and forgot to switch the units. Bloodcrushers are nowhere near t5 material.
Getting an exulted Bloodthirster with the barrier buff to his armory and an army or regening minotaurs is almost as good as Skarbrand with bloodthirsters.
I’m surprised you out flesh hounds in “actual trash” category when they do the job of chaos war hounds but better. If they under preform for being a “large” unit that makes sense, but there is a situational role for them.
@Kaptiv239 the job of the hounds is to kill routing units or attack archers/artillery. This works best in the early game as archers are super weak in melee.
Agreed, KhorneDawg fulfill their roles reasonably well. They're good when you need skirmishers, but as dedicated damage-dealers, they're not gonna output damage like a full unit of Bloodletters.
i find running 4 minotaurs, 4 heavy cav, 1-2 blood thirsters, 1 of each heroes and the 5-6 chosen to be really strong. my go to balanced army. too bad Khorne lost their 1% melee attack faction wide buff from commandments
shrine and cannon in trash is asinine. The only reason not to use a shrine is if you have one already with a bloodreaper on it. Its tanky, fast, heals and, most importantly, buffs your units even further. If you plan on facing armies with lots of ranged units, blobbing in the forest with a shrine in the middle of your units is a legitimately good strategy, since your units will have so much magic resistance that even casters arent a threat. Cannons are also useful to flank enemies with their shots, melting groups at a time. They are inaccurate but, again, flanking with them makes it easier to land the shots. And yes, like you said, you won't get them in your regular armies easily but consider: 1) Only one of Khorne's green building (the one that increases after battle loot, etc) is truly needed, the rest can be spent on military buildings to reduce their recruitment time after 10 are built. 2) Khorne is not short on gold now, unless you go on contstruction building frenzies. Free blood hosts completely changed their economy. I'm not saying they are the best units in the rooster, but having one shrine, either the unit or a hero, per army is, imo, mandatory, and cannon is useful against certain races that would otherwise give trouble.
Why do you think I said to always have a bloodreaper in your armies. Besides, at t3 getting a bloodshrine instead of a gore beast chariot is such a waste, since 8 melee attack is good, but not so good that I would lose a unit slot over it, and at t4 getting a skull cannon instead of a minotaur is just dumb. Like these are good units, they are the best units you can get in your blood hosts, but for recruiting into your armies they are just awful. They need to be lower tier and take less than 2 turns to recruit.
Use cannons as chariots and turn their auto shoot off. First you drive it closer to their target then when they are close right click to attack so that their cannons cant miss. Works every time.
@@CultistOfkhorne I think the blood shrine as a unit needs a different effect from the mount to really justify it. And the skull cannons need to be a battery of four to really shine.
@@CultistOfkhornehard disagree. Legend of Total War showed in one of his videos how strong blood shrines are when you have 5+ of them. They melt infantry and only need to be wary of things like Giant slayers or handgunners. But then that's what the Skull cannon can deal with.
Hello, im optimizing my khorne army. I have skarbrand, bloodreaper, cultist, champion, 7x exalted bloodletters, 3 blood thirsters, 6 soulgrinders. Should i replace my soul grinders with minotaurs of khorne instead?
Nah, they are perfectly fine in Skarbrands army since they are cheaper and they are able to heal. If you were going to replace anything I would say get wrathmongers or chosen instead of the bloodletters. It is a good army, but I feel like your frontline will crumble very easily.
I mean, you can, but why would you want to? They are really difficult to use properly and not really worth it in my opinion. If you need something for killing large units, I would just get bloodthirsters or exalted heroes.
Just finished a Skulltaker campaign around turn 35 going in blind. I only recruited bloodletters and used bloodhosts for the rest of my armies. Most busted campaign I've ever played.
5:30 the only good part is that the building chain which gives you Bloodcrushers also gives you recruitment capacity. EDIT: nvm, it doesn't give you recruitment capacity wtf
The only mono demon roster I like is Nurgle but I find no reason to play a demon faction at all when I can play as Belkor or Archeon and have a huge roster to choose from. Khorne are slow with little ranged power and then all of a sudden you get to Bloodthirsters and minotaurs and you can forget all the other units exist. Bloodhosts is a rediculous mechanic but the best part of them is you have to play with what you are given. I know WH is a sandbox game but so many units are relegated to trash level when you have the ability to ignore them. The table top rules where you had to have so many points in core units could help make this game so much more balanced but CA have no interest in going down that route.
I personally think that would be boring, it would force you to build more meta armies, further encourage you to recruit nothing but basic units, force you to abuse the games mechanic to win, and give the A.I. a tremendous boost. The charm of this game for me is building armies the way you want, giving them all the bonuses that you can find, and then watching them perform on the battlefield. If I wasn't able to build armies I liked, and was forced to get 10 marauders, 5 warriors of chaos, 3 chariots and a bloodthirster, in every single one of my armies, I wouldn't play the game. And I'm saying it like this because there is a mod that does just that. I personally think that putting unit caps like how the beastmen, chaos dwarfs and tomb kings have on their units is the right way of going about it. I also think that Markus had the potential to be a really interesting campaign , where you couldn't recruit your high tier units normally, but was given them with supplies. Sadly they just couldn't do a proper job at it, and it ended as a mess of a campaign that was completely forgotten.
Sorry, you get a thumbs down for dissing the SkullCannons. They're doomstackable, they regen ammo AND HP in melee and have pretty solid ranged stats. Any Bloodhost that comes with Skullcannons is automatically going to live longer and punch harder thanks to being backpack'd by the SkullCannon!
Well, It's a good thing you listened to the part where I mentioned this was a tier list for when recruiting units, not getting them in bloodhosts for free :D. And if you would rather have a doomstack of skullcannons than minotaurs, well, your loss.
@CultistOfkhorne true, you did mention that. And for two turns of recruitment, Minotaurs *are* the superior option. But if you want to run a ranged memestack of Skullcannons and Soulgrinders, it's much more viable than your rating would suggest. At least, from my experience. The issue most people have is it's not particularly accurate, but the solution is to have 5-12 of them, instead of 1-3.
Exalted Hero are you most reliable answer to Monsters: - is anti-infantry - is an hero so not spammable - Bloodthirsters, Minotaurs GW and Chaos Warriors Halberds exist. What gives?
They have high melee attack and can get up to 1k weapon strength, swarm 3 of them around a giant and it dies in a few hits. Besides, its easier to get a spam of exalted heroes than a spam of bloodthirsters, trust me, I got both :(
@@CultistOfkhorne Even with the heroes limits? I mean, I get it that Bloodthirsters cost twice as much as Exalted Hero, but there is necessarily a limit to how much you can get, unlike Bloodthirsters. Although, I suppose money IS a limit...
@@Indolthir It's not even money that is the issue, one bloodthirster takes 3 turns to recruit locally, and you can get 6 at a time, but it takes a long time (by khorne standards) for you to be able to recruit them. By the time you then recruit them you have to get them to the front lines, which there will be no front line since the campaign will basically be over, meanwhile exalted heroes have their capacity increased by a t3 building, which you get insanely quickly. After you occupy a settlement it takes less than 10 turns to get the t3 building, so it is just easier to get exalted heroes capacity, and recruit them wherever you want, than it is to get a bloodthirster army going. Now you can also get the bloodthirsters globally in 3 turn, if you have max bloodletting and with the help of the skull throne, but it feels very limiting doing it this way.
I have to disagree with your take on the skull canons. As long as you keep them together as a group of at least 5 of them they are almost imune to infantry and they are just fun. But i must admit an army of them is absoluty terrible in autoresolve.
Awh come on you can't put chariots in trash tier enticity will find out and do a full doomstack with em 😂 Actually though, skull cannons are way better now. They seem to do a lot more damage and they can regen their ammo in melee.
I agree that skullcannons are really good now, just not as a t4 units, as when it comes to choosing between a skullcannon or a minotaur, I'm always choosing the minotaurs.
Is there a way to get skull cannons to charge into melee without shooting? normally with range you would alt right click them to charge but as these count as artillery alt is also the target ground command? I was trying to use them to mop up weak stuff, generate ammo and then use it on stronger things but I think I might be missing a trick here.
@@fellen_ You can hold alt and then click on enemy to go fight in melee or click F to turn on melee mode for them (any attack comand will be in melee in this mode)
One of the most important factors making wrathmongers so tanky in melee, is their insane melee defense. they can get 80+ melee defense if you go down the red lord skill line with most khorne lords. They genuinely have higher melee defense than most lords and heroes in the game. Also 50+ movement speed for an infantry unit is crazy.
Great info would love to see more for other factions for sure 10/10
Just completed my Arbaal campaign this morning... looks like skarbrand is next!
Imagine being ranged unit in a Khorne army. Everyone else spitting on you every day of your life.
I am surprised you didn't make a joke with the cultist heroes.
I wanted to, but I wasn't really feeling it.
what joke?
I think I never recruited a skull cannon so I understand the rating, but they are so good in blood hosts, and fun to use.
Finally! I've been looking for this video for a while now. Great video!
Wrathmongers are terrifying, the rors can solo kugath healing himself to the healing cap, and they are in a good shape after that, they can fight on.
And the fact arbaal makes then unbreakable makes them even more insane
Imo I think the khornegors deserve a little more praise for their worth on the battlefield. In my experience they delete pretty much all large entities with both of their melee attack buffs active, and while they are admittedly ass against infantry, I don't think you can go wrong with two in any army at least until midgame. On the other hand though, idk what you see in the skullreapers considering they're (I beleive) worse variants of bloodletters and don't really fill a hole in the khorne roster (seriously CA just give them SOMETHING unique)
that aside though, I think anyone can agree that for what it is, the slaughterbum is embarrassingly bad. Just a stripped down multilith imo. It's the unit that really needs a change for me. Thanks for the vid cultist!
With a name like that, this tier list and army comp better be good.
Pretty much agree with everything here, bro cooked 🔥
Oh man, the skull cannons are so much fun although I do admit, I’m not sure if I’ve ever recruited one before
Sweet! Would like this for other factions too!
Do you have any pointers on the new Khornate tech tree, Pillars and Armaments?
Just to always go for the technology that gives you growth after winning battles first, asides from that you can pretty much do what ever.
@@CultistOfkhorne it makes no sense, Blood Shrines -> Skullcannons -> Soul Grinders should be the chain, as it was before, makes sense from the theme and tier perspective, Bloodcrushers should be t4 that upgrades to Bloodthirsters at t5. CA just rushed this and forgot to switch the units. Bloodcrushers are nowhere near t5 material.
A NEW YEAR FOR KHORNE!!!
Getting an exulted Bloodthirster with the barrier buff to his armory and an army or regening minotaurs is almost as good as Skarbrand with bloodthirsters.
Man, the new units made Khorne so much more fun.
FOR KHORNE
I’m surprised you out flesh hounds in “actual trash” category when they do the job of chaos war hounds but better. If they under preform for being a “large” unit that makes sense, but there is a situational role for them.
Put*
Yeah the flesh hounds always work really well for me, specially in early game
@Kaptiv239 the job of the hounds is to kill routing units or attack archers/artillery. This works best in the early game as archers are super weak in melee.
I basically use these as light cavalry. They can be effective but with a weak charge and not much staying power they become pointless past early game.
Agreed, KhorneDawg fulfill their roles reasonably well. They're good when you need skirmishers, but as dedicated damage-dealers, they're not gonna output damage like a full unit of Bloodletters.
i find running 4 minotaurs, 4 heavy cav, 1-2 blood thirsters, 1 of each heroes and the 5-6 chosen to be really strong. my go to balanced army.
too bad Khorne lost their 1% melee attack faction wide buff from commandments
shrine and cannon in trash is asinine.
The only reason not to use a shrine is if you have one already with a bloodreaper on it. Its tanky, fast, heals and, most importantly, buffs your units even further.
If you plan on facing armies with lots of ranged units, blobbing in the forest with a shrine in the middle of your units is a legitimately good strategy, since your units will have so much magic resistance that even casters arent a threat.
Cannons are also useful to flank enemies with their shots, melting groups at a time. They are inaccurate but, again, flanking with them makes it easier to land the shots.
And yes, like you said, you won't get them in your regular armies easily but consider:
1) Only one of Khorne's green building (the one that increases after battle loot, etc) is truly needed, the rest can be spent on military buildings to reduce their recruitment time after 10 are built.
2) Khorne is not short on gold now, unless you go on contstruction building frenzies. Free blood hosts completely changed their economy.
I'm not saying they are the best units in the rooster, but having one shrine, either the unit or a hero, per army is, imo, mandatory, and cannon is useful against certain races that would otherwise give trouble.
Why do you think I said to always have a bloodreaper in your armies. Besides, at t3 getting a bloodshrine instead of a gore beast chariot is such a waste, since 8 melee attack is good, but not so good that I would lose a unit slot over it, and at t4 getting a skull cannon instead of a minotaur is just dumb.
Like these are good units, they are the best units you can get in your blood hosts, but for recruiting into your armies they are just awful. They need to be lower tier and take less than 2 turns to recruit.
Use cannons as chariots and turn their auto shoot off. First you drive it closer to their target then when they are close right click to attack so that their cannons cant miss. Works every time.
@@CultistOfkhorne I think the blood shrine as a unit needs a different effect from the mount to really justify it.
And the skull cannons need to be a battery of four to really shine.
@@CultistOfkhornehard disagree. Legend of Total War showed in one of his videos how strong blood shrines are when you have 5+ of them. They melt infantry and only need to be wary of things like Giant slayers or handgunners. But then that's what the Skull cannon can deal with.
Hello, im optimizing my khorne army.
I have skarbrand, bloodreaper, cultist, champion, 7x exalted bloodletters, 3 blood thirsters, 6 soulgrinders.
Should i replace my soul grinders with minotaurs of khorne instead?
Nah, they are perfectly fine in Skarbrands army since they are cheaper and they are able to heal. If you were going to replace anything I would say get wrathmongers or chosen instead of the bloodletters. It is a good army, but I feel like your frontline will crumble very easily.
Hello again.
Ive been doomstackimng wrathmongers. Is it worth to remove a few units of wrathmongers so i can put in slaughterbrutes?
I mean, you can, but why would you want to? They are really difficult to use properly and not really worth it in my opinion. If you need something for killing large units, I would just get bloodthirsters or exalted heroes.
Even without skarbrand's faction bonus, is soulgrinder a better anti-infantry than slaughterbrute?
Probably, yeah.
Just finished a Skulltaker campaign around turn 35 going in blind. I only recruited bloodletters and used bloodhosts for the rest of my armies. Most busted campaign I've ever played.
5:30 the only good part is that the building chain which gives you Bloodcrushers also gives you recruitment capacity.
EDIT: nvm, it doesn't give you recruitment capacity wtf
Yeah, that building is just awful now.
The only mono demon roster I like is Nurgle but I find no reason to play a demon faction at all when I can play as Belkor or Archeon and have a huge roster to choose from. Khorne are slow with little ranged power and then all of a sudden you get to Bloodthirsters and minotaurs and you can forget all the other units exist.
Bloodhosts is a rediculous mechanic but the best part of them is you have to play with what you are given. I know WH is a sandbox game but so many units are relegated to trash level when you have the ability to ignore them. The table top rules where you had to have so many points in core units could help make this game so much more balanced but CA have no interest in going down that route.
I personally think that would be boring, it would force you to build more meta armies, further encourage you to recruit nothing but basic units, force you to abuse the games mechanic to win, and give the A.I. a tremendous boost.
The charm of this game for me is building armies the way you want, giving them all the bonuses that you can find, and then watching them perform on the battlefield. If I wasn't able to build armies I liked, and was forced to get 10 marauders, 5 warriors of chaos, 3 chariots and a bloodthirster, in every single one of my armies, I wouldn't play the game. And I'm saying it like this because there is a mod that does just that.
I personally think that putting unit caps like how the beastmen, chaos dwarfs and tomb kings have on their units is the right way of going about it. I also think that Markus had the potential to be a really interesting campaign , where you couldn't recruit your high tier units normally, but was given them with supplies. Sadly they just couldn't do a proper job at it, and it ended as a mess of a campaign that was completely forgotten.
Sorry, you get a thumbs down for dissing the SkullCannons. They're doomstackable, they regen ammo AND HP in melee and have pretty solid ranged stats. Any Bloodhost that comes with Skullcannons is automatically going to live longer and punch harder thanks to being backpack'd by the SkullCannon!
Well, It's a good thing you listened to the part where I mentioned this was a tier list for when recruiting units, not getting them in bloodhosts for free :D.
And if you would rather have a doomstack of skullcannons than minotaurs, well, your loss.
@CultistOfkhorne true, you did mention that. And for two turns of recruitment, Minotaurs *are* the superior option. But if you want to run a ranged memestack of Skullcannons and Soulgrinders, it's much more viable than your rating would suggest. At least, from my experience.
The issue most people have is it's not particularly accurate, but the solution is to have 5-12 of them, instead of 1-3.
Exalted Hero are you most reliable answer to Monsters:
- is anti-infantry
- is an hero so not spammable
- Bloodthirsters, Minotaurs GW and Chaos Warriors Halberds exist.
What gives?
They have high melee attack and can get up to 1k weapon strength, swarm 3 of them around a giant and it dies in a few hits. Besides, its easier to get a spam of exalted heroes than a spam of bloodthirsters, trust me, I got both :(
@@CultistOfkhorne Even with the heroes limits? I mean, I get it that Bloodthirsters cost twice as much as Exalted Hero, but there is necessarily a limit to how much you can get, unlike Bloodthirsters. Although, I suppose money IS a limit...
@@Indolthir It's not even money that is the issue, one bloodthirster takes 3 turns to recruit locally, and you can get 6 at a time, but it takes a long time (by khorne standards) for you to be able to recruit them. By the time you then recruit them you have to get them to the front lines, which there will be no front line since the campaign will basically be over, meanwhile exalted heroes have their capacity increased by a t3 building, which you get insanely quickly. After you occupy a settlement it takes less than 10 turns to get the t3 building, so it is just easier to get exalted heroes capacity, and recruit them wherever you want, than it is to get a bloodthirster army going.
Now you can also get the bloodthirsters globally in 3 turn, if you have max bloodletting and with the help of the skull throne, but it feels very limiting doing it this way.
@@CultistOfkhorne Ah, yes. I see. Thank you for your explanation.
Where aprising champion?
They aren't part of the Khorne unit roster, they are a warriors of chaos exclusive unit.
I have to disagree with your take on the skull canons. As long as you keep them together as a group of at least 5 of them they are almost imune to infantry and they are just fun. But i must admit an army of them is absoluty terrible in autoresolve.
blood 4 the blood God!!
Bro can you say blood thrister correct
Apparently not :(
@ then stop speaking boy
Well, you've forgotten about Warpstone infused bloodletters while forming Doomstack category. Dislike 👎
Damn how could I forget to add Khorne's mightiest champion Tretch Craventail :(
Biased 😜
Wdym, I still haven't even made a video saying how Khorne is still the strongest race in the game :P
Awh come on you can't put chariots in trash tier enticity will find out and do a full doomstack with em 😂
Actually though, skull cannons are way better now. They seem to do a lot more damage and they can regen their ammo in melee.
I agree that skullcannons are really good now, just not as a t4 units, as when it comes to choosing between a skullcannon or a minotaur, I'm always choosing the minotaurs.
Is there a way to get skull cannons to charge into melee without shooting? normally with range you would alt right click them to charge but as these count as artillery alt is also the target ground command? I was trying to use them to mop up weak stuff, generate ammo and then use it on stronger things but I think I might be missing a trick here.
@@fellen_ You can hold alt and then click on enemy to go fight in melee or click F to turn on melee mode for them (any attack comand will be in melee in this mode)
@@riperix8444 oh nice I think I forgot the mode change was a thing, thanks!
@@CultistOfkhorne is this list same for valkia too ?