Howard Chaykin: The King of Controversial Comics?
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- Photo of Howard Chaykin copyright Luigi Novi.
Howard Chaykin has done plenty of work at Marvel and DC but mostly likes to tell his own stories. He's worked hard to establish creator owned comics in his career. This video takes a look at where Chaykin's interests lie, his most popular work and his contributions to the industry, from American Flagg to Blackhawk, Black Kiss to Divided States of Hysteria.
/ comictropes 
Развлечения
A friend of mine went up to his table at a Florida con in '93. "Do you... Do you know who I am?" he asked. "No, I'm afraid I don't" my friend replied. "Shucks, no one knows me around here... have a drawing."
Yeah, he’s underrated.
I met the guy at Comic Con Revolution selling original pages of American Flag and some sketches. I got him to review my portfolio, and he told me “I’ve seen young guys come up to me and show me their work before, and their stuff are a lot worse. I see potential”. His niece was with him and she told me he wasn’t afraid to tell a guy straight that their work sucks. So that’s probably one of the best compliments I’ve ever gotten towards my art.
Thanks for giving me a more in-depth look into his personal and professional life, I’ve been wanting to for a very long time!
@joseph watson uhhh, okay
It is good art
"and their stuff are a lot worse"
Good work, buddy. Everyone believes you.
Cool
Cool story, bro.
Did anyone ever bring up the fact that all the women in American Flagg were based on female porn stars of the 80s?
I never realized that!
I loved the 80's porn stars 🤣
And the problem.is...??
How delightfully lame 😂
I think very few people remember that anymore.
I met Howard Chaykin years ago at Boston Comic Con. I went up and said "Hello Mr. Chaykin." He went ballistic. "DON'T EVER CALL ME MISTER. It's Howard." Then he chuckled. Still one of the best con memories ever. Also picked up some of his art at a decent price from him.
I've heard he could be really rude to fans on occasion. Funnily enough I have an old Comics Interview from the time when Steve Rude was promoting his and Dave Gibbon's World's Finest mini-series--he said something like:" if he was rude to me like he is to some fans, he'd be missing some teeth!". I've read a few other accounts as well, from both fans and pros. I dunno though. You know what comic industry gossip is like!
@@vollsticks Steve Rude is quite volatile himself.
@@josegregoriobencomogomez4958 What, to fans? I know he had some legal troubles over that stuff with his neighbour, and the documentary is pretty fucking sad in a lot of ways...the cute punk girl who used to work in Forbidden Planet in London said he was "rude about her hair" but that's the only account I've heard personally, first hand, of Steve Rude being, er, rude...still, he's one of my top five comic artists/cartoonists whom i'd love to meet. He'll always be a legend to me, Nexus was the first indie comic I ever collected religiously...good times.
Have you ever met The Dude yourself?
I was an annoying kid in the 80s and I look back and am ashamed at what a pest I was. He wouldn't do sketches then. I must have ask him a hundred times. He signed whatever you had, Once I even I saw him in the hotel lounge/bar area with his wife and went up to him and he had every right to blow me off but talked to me and signed more. I wrote every creator I loved in the 80s only he responded. He's always been opinionated and was cocky in the 80s especially, but I never saw him be anything but nice to fans.
@Monotech2.0 Who?
Generic soda is good for a certain time and place. Like any time my in-laws are at my place.
lietz13 I’m totally fine with generic soda, except for Dr Thunder. Dr Pepper/Mr Pibb are my favorite sodas, but for some reason the generic version is just trash.
Here in Mexico we have Red Cola, a local brand that is actually superior
@@GinHindew110 Lies!
I could go for a glass of off brand orange Fanta rn
I'm a milk man all the way.
I met Chaykin at a local comic con a couple years ago. He is definitely an outspoken person but really interesting and very approachable. He confirmed that he only had minimal info when creating the star wars comics. I was able to score a Darth Vader sketch from him as well.
So Chaykin's interests were big guns and big'uns.
That would be a an amazing title.
Like any true american of the good ol' US of A.
Coming next year, Howard Chaykin's Shooters and Hooters
+allluckyseven *Charlton Heston voice* God Bless America.
Is that a reference to Married with Children?
If I had to guess I would say that Chaykin's brutal depictions of lynchings and beatings of immigrants and SW is to illustrate to his readers how ugly and horrible those things that are happening really are, and that for many of those people there is no recourse.
Yeah i feel like his portrayal of things is almost "this is the world we live in, consume bubblegum or deal with the realities before you"
leftists attack art and censoring is their strength.
Howard Chaykin taught me how to draw men and women in regular clothes that looked natural! his panel arrangement ,his most creative use of lettering and his distinctive style make him one of my favorite (all time) comics artists/ writers!
I think Chaykin is pretty liberal, he just might appeal to more rightwing people just because he takes a cynical tone and does not have the sanitized liberalism that makes fables and inspirational things, while he delves more on the flaws of the real world that is agressive against his values (hence why he shows violently killed minority people). Even the showing of the antifascist Blackhawk as fascist is a comment on hypocrisy and not making a fascist hero. He seems more a liberal with sui generis approach to how to make liberal comments than cynical or actually not-liberal in disguise.
@milster I don't think his comics appeal just to the right - unless that right leaning person where to be a real monster. By saying that this appeals to the right is a pretty bold move since you assume the right is full of real racist, xenophobes - which its not. I believe Chaykin's books are merely offensively edgy to gain traction and popularity.
@milster You don't have to be against LGBT or pro-life to be horrible person, that's what I think a lot of people are getting wrong. I consider myself right wing on the political spectrum but the harsh views portrayed in his comics really don't appeal to me.
Michael Miller ooor, the right wing knows how to laugh at themselves, where the left wingers simply shun their own people if their own brethren calls them out on it. Arrogance and narcissism is your downfall mate, right wingers are just normal folks. When you demonize a person, you lose and become the strawman you declared you aren’t
He probably falls somewhere on the American Libertarian or Anarchist side of the political compass. Don't know where he stands on capitalism or socialism, but he seems at least to be against the state.
@Michael Miller pretty sure that's you stupid fucks.
I cannot stand how they combine Chaykin's linework with low-grade digital coloring in his recent comics. I have nothing against digital coloring per se, but stylistically it just doesn't work here. Being familiar with his style I see where he intended the shading with his pencils/pens and it clashes with the gradient shading that appears in the final work. It downright ruins the dimensions and perspective of his drawings most of the time. How he allows this is beyond me.
He gets paid
@@nak3dxsnake right he's got money he's going to getlazy
@Monotech2.0 Land was already at the bottom of the hill
Depiction of an act in a story does not imply endorsement of the act, come on.
Yeah, he really needs to learn that.
Yea but it aint simple as that tho like for example writing about racist or nazis doesnt make u a nazi How ever if u r a nazi or racist or what ever and u wanna endorse ideas to wider audience their media gunna show that media can be used for anything and must be looked at as a case by case basis
@Mister Bigglesworth Beyond Satire, just depicting bad things happening doesn't mean you want those bad things to happen. Including Hate crimes in your serious story but portraying it as a bad thing certainly doesn't mean you support hate crimes.
Its bigger than that. Depiction is one thing, but its consequences and context that make the controversy. If your main character is a misogynistic, womanizing, trigger-happy edgelord, than whatever. But if the character learns nothing about why he is wrong for doing such things, while condemning other social violations, than the author is subtly taking those faults, and making them cool. Thus, glorification.
Ok but can you say that again, in English please?
Chaykin's Blackhawk character was actually a critique of the post-WWII "red scare" and McCarthyism.
I haven't read it, but from what he says about black hawk, the fact that the hero is a communist, but that the american government is authoritarian, it sounds a lot like the critique of america taking place in Watchmen, the discrimination, the admiration of fascism until war is inevitable, the concentration of Japanese-Americans, later the McCarthyism, etc...
I would have to read it to get the specifics, but drawing parallels between the american ultra-patriotism, militarism and racial history with racism is hardly a stretch.
Definitely going to skip that one then. That makes me think that either he is ignorant of the significant infiltration of media and government or he actually sympathizes with the infiltrators. Either of those is shameful.
@@Zorro9129 there are two separate issues here: infiltration by soviet spies, and counter-espionnage, which is legitimate.
But there is also the repression of all leftism, which is clearly against freedom of expression.
There are some grey areas there, but you can't at the same time subscribe to McCarthyism and proclaim america "the land of the free".
@@maximeteppe7627 A few years ago I would have agreed with you. However, I've discovered insiders who have blown the lid, time and time again, on the fact that infiltration went far deeper and far broader than anyone realized. This has not entered the public consciousness precisely because of the media which has protected its members with a veneer of respectability and successfully discredited McCarthy and future public activists.
Defectors at various points described different areas of infiltration all through society.
Whitaker Chambers revealed agents in the federal government.
Bella Dodd revealed mass infiltration in schools.
W. Cleon Skousen revealed infiltration in the art community in the book "The Naked Communist"
Yuri Bezmenov described the means of subversion by Soviet spies: /watch?v=zgmg2VFX058
Books like "The Devil's Pleasure Palace," "The Red Trojan Horse," and "Excuse Me, Professor" detail how ideology has become the centerpoint of supposedly neutral universities.
It's a little late to point all this out, of course. Now, the ideological descendants of these infiltrators hold the reigns on most of the institutions in the country and they sneer at the phrase "the land of the free."
@Zorro9129 “Duh commies in muh Art and Universities”
4:27 As a liberal man, I can confidently say that tough action heroes and attractive women are still very enticing parts of fantasy for me; political views don't have to dominate what you find entertaining, especially when when what you're interested in is campy fiction which doesn't assume it's a perfect reflection of reality.
What does being liberal have to do with tough action heroes or attractive women as characters? If anything, I would think a liberal would be outright explicitly supportive of such things and the liberty to make them.
@Cory Goodman He seemed to be under the impression that because some liberals are worried about sexuality in media, or that a larger portion of us are worried about toxic masculinity, that liberals must just all hate tough men and sexy women. This is a blatant oversimplification which ignores that not everyone who follows the same political ideology has the exact same beliefs. If you go onto Tumblr or other places where views are extremely far left than you will find people offended by these types of characters, but the majority of more moderate liberals don't care all that much.
Comics are only a problem if you make them a problem. While most comics have had a political message, if they are good comics, most people will like them.
A Spoopy Scaley Scary Man I blame the news for portraying both left and right as either hardline communists or fanatic Nazis. I blame them (Fox and CNN) for all of the political division. It sells news better
@Todd Howard I think that the strong political division in this country really started to take root when Cable news agencies started their 24 hour coverage. Since there isn't enough new information to talk about all hours of the day, most of their lineup is just talk shows where people either argue about politics, or just constantly give one side's view of the situation. Then Fox in specific really got the ball rolling by being so unapologetically partisan, not to say that there aren't left leaning cable networks either, MSNBC is a prime example of that. These networks really started up the whole mentality that political parties are sides in a war rather than contrasting schools of thought; then as the internet got more widespread social media finished the job by giving people the echo chambers they needed to believe they are always right and everyone agrees with them.
Having read recent interviews, Chaykin, as an American-born Jew, is very cynical towards the United States and its tendency to turn propaganda into history. As has been pointed out by others, America has its own history of authoritarianism and skirting with fascism and did not intervene in World War 2 until it was attacked by the Japanese. Naturally, he has nothing but contempt for the American right and its conservative enablers in the political media (Fox News) but he also isn't a fan of the American left, with its anti-Zionism and pro-Communism (i.e. "tankies"). If you boil his politics down, he's a left-leaning pragmatist who is intensely critical of the intellectual left.
Thats how i feel. I get this guy.
Pro-Comminism doesn't mean tankies, tankies specifically refer to Communists who are explicitly and uncritically supportive of authoritarian Leninist regimes. Tankie is a term that was invented by Communists who refused to support the USSR once they rolled in the tanks (hence the term) to crush a worker's uprising in Hungary in 1956. Also, it's a laughable stretch to say that the American "left" is supportive of Communists.
- an anti-authoritarian Communist
@Coley Durham "people with actual principles and beliefs are idiots, be a spineless idiot like me" - centrists
Can you put it in Laymans terms for less politically oriented individuals (myself included)
@@dontchewglass centrists do have principles and beliefs, they're not just blind loyalists of any political party and refuse to fall for that you're either with us or against us crap when it comes to the right and left hence they have more spine anyone who's pro right or pro left
Just because someone SHOWS a certain type of taboo thing in their art doesn't mean their FOR said taboo thing... for the millionth time...
That's not really the issue. The issue is showing graphic sequences of homophobia or racism or what have you for the sake of shock value, which is just crass and exploitative of actual individuals who've experienced hate crimes. It's not an endorsement, but it's not a terribly classy move, either
@@bS0up sometimes that shock value needs to be there to show people how bad something can get and be an "eye opener".
@@Ghorda9 and sometimes it's there because the writer is a tryhard edgelord who just wants to get some quick publicity off the real world suffering of marginalized people
@@bS0up Isnt Handmaids Tale doing the same thing?
@@Yatsura2
It definitely is trying to show a "worst possible situation" if implicit misogynist policies continue.
I've been reading Howard Chaykin comics since I was thirteen years old. I'm now forty-eight, and I have some corrections:
Howard Chaykin isn't a cynic. His work is cynicism free. If he were cynical, he'd put out brand new STAR WARS comics every year or become strongly identified with drawing a fan favorite superhero, giving the public what *they* ostensibly want while laughing at them behind their backs. Instead, he's avoided all of that in favor of doing work that interests him but reaches a far smaller audience.
The main thing I have always loved about Chaykin's comics is that he doesn't dumb them down. He expects his readers to keep up with him and do a little work. That doesn't mean I've always been able to, but even as a teenager I could sense there was more going on in his work than what I picked up at first or second read.
The Chaykin hero *is not* drawn as an idealized version of himself. This idea has gotten thrown around so much over the years that people tend to accept it without further investigation. In reality it's an idealized version of the three actors he says defined the mid-20th Century American man: Henry Fonda, William Holden, and James Garner. Conversely, Chaykin himself looked more like an apple cheeked Robert Downey Jr. when he was a young man.
To get an idea of what I'm talking about watch Henry Fonda in THE LADY EVE (1941) and MY DARLING CLEMENTINE (1946), William Holden in STALAG 17 (1953), and James Garner in THE AMERICANIZATION OF EMILY (1964) and his tv series MAVERICK and NICHOLS. In particular, I'd say STALAG 17 and THE AMERICANIZATION OF EMILY showcase their leading men as very Chaykinesque protagonists.
He also sticks with the same basic hero type as a way to "brand" his work, and let his readers know it's him. Other artists might achieve the same thing by drawing Spider-Man for decades.
His heroes, such as they are, don't get up in the morning looking to be heroic as in normal comics. They tend to be morally conflicted if not morally ambiguous men who are frightened but do what's necessary anyway. They aren't even always good guys. You know, like real people.
I recommend reading novelists like James Ellroy, Megan Abbott, Don Winslow, Dawn Powell, George Pelecanos, Philip Kerr, and Alan Furst to get at what I'm talking about here. Not other comics.
The word "presentism" doesn't refer to people being into what's current. It refers to historical fiction where the characters have anachronistic attitudes and opinions more suited to the present day than the past era they inhabit.
Which brings me to BLACKHAWK. Blackhawk was created before the US entered WWII by Chuck Cuidera and Will Eisner. The team is made up of characters from the various nations the Nazis invaded and/or occupied up to that time: Poland, the Netherlands, France, Germany, etc. Their outfits were meant to evoke the fascist look, but the comic was created by young Jewish guys wanting to speak out against what was going on in Europe to the Jews at the time.
Looks wise, the Blackhawks are indeed "Fascists for our side." Politically though, they aren't fascist at all, and that's important.
Chaykin's BLACKHAWK restores the character to being Polish (he was made an American for a while in the comics which made no sense). He also very specifically makes Blackhawk a Communist. Why? Because the first to stand up against fascism in the Spanish Civil War, in Poland, etc. were Communists.
Chaykin is a lifelong Democrat by the way. He's not making a statement. Blackhawk being a Communist is only in the interests of historical accuracy. It's a detail that adds flavor to the character, and verisimilitude.
You'll also notice in the book that the US has some people in government with fascist leanings. This is also in keeping with history. After the war, many who served heroically would be branded as "Premature Anti-Fascists" --because they dared speak out and/or fight against Hitler before the US got itself into the war. Charlie Chaplin was one of those (because he made THE GREAT DICTATOR), and was forced to flee the US for Switzerland.
Sadly, there were a number of Americans who thought we should've sided with Germany during WWII. Some of them were in government or prominent public figures (Charles Lindbergh for example). The book recognizes this and makes use of it.
While Chaykin did sign a deal to develop AMERICAN FLAGG! for television last year, his interest and work on THE DIVIDED STATES OF HYSTERIA predates that by a year and a half. He did the book because he wanted to comment on our current political climate. In much the same way, AMERICAN FLAGG! was done in the early 1980s as a way to comment on Reagan's America.
DIVIDED STATES is meant to be a disturbing political thriller. As such it has scenes of xenophobia, racism, transphobia, sexism, etc. You'll notice the United States under Trump isn't going through any shortage of those qualities either. That said, these bad behaviors are presented as part of the narrative, not as an endorsement. Remember above when I said Chaykin expects his readers to pay attention and keep up? Yeah, that.
Incidentally, the trans woman character Chrissie Silver is both the moral center and real hero of the book. Which attentive readers would recognize if they'd read the whole story.
In developing the character, Chaykin did extensive research and had long conversations with a trans woman friend to get feedback on how to present the character, what her fears would be, i.e. "The Trap" that introduces her, etc. She ended up loving both Chrissie Silver and the book by the way.
You fundamentally misunderstand what being cynical means. What you said about cynicism and chaykin makes no sense at all.
Ignore that guy, great comment. Almost too good for RUclips
Possibly the best youtube comment I've ever read.
@@CGoody564 you're an idiot.
Brilliant, brilliant original comment by the way.
good god, its a comment section, not an essay section! however you made me want to get and read "...Hysteria"
15:55 So it's transphobic and xenophobic to discuss transphobia and xenophobia? That's like saying Alan Moore is a proponent of vigilantism because his characters are.
I've always been a fan of his artwork, I especially liked the way he drew leather jackets and leather boots, I would copy that style as a kid in my own drawings. I came across Black Kiss when I was 14 or 15 in my local comic shop, I was already a Chaykin fan by then and when I was told by the owner that I couldn't buy a copy because it was for adults only, well that just ramped up the curiosity factor by ten! Years later I found out it wasn't that good after all...
Chaykin,moebius & most heavy metal art got me hooked on fantasy erotic art. It sells. Nothing fancy, anyway mr. Chaykin got me hooked. Thank you
Im going through a really dark period in my life I considered suicide last night, I just want you to know that your cheery upbeat attitude about comics is really making me feel not absolutely depressed. Keep up the good work !
Keep strong man there's a lot to live for
@@walihall5957 hey thanks, shit still sucks but that's how life is. You gotta roll with the punches. I think alot of people need to understand that no matter what it's going to be okay, I find comfort in helping people with my same problem because I knew how alone I felt. People can try to be there for you, but they're not you, everyone deals with things differently in there own way the most someone can do is letting you know that it's going to be okay and it's okay to be sad sometimes
I completely agree with you im going through a shitty time right know but I'm tryna keep positive mindset and keep myself busy
@@walihall5957 that's good, if anyone tries to bring you down then fuck em, focus on you dude whatever you want to do, focus on getting that goal done.
Ironwood was Willingham's erotic comic. Iron wolf was the Chaykin comic. I got one in a grab bag as a kid and had no idea what to make of it.
I loved Iron Wolf! Glad I'm not the only one who noticed it was mispronounced in this video. I've never heard of Ironwood, so I was confused why he kept saying Ironwood. Now I know.
Jeremy Pinkham yay cat!
Well, ONE of Willingham's erotic comics, that is. He did others, including some superhero stuff.
Rich McGee I lost track of him a while back.
fad23 The last thing I heard he was working on was a steampunk version of the Dynamite heroes almost in the vein of Alan Moore’s The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.
you say "transphobic" and "xenophobic" but do the comics ENDORSE the violence against these characters? is this violence portrayed as the RIGHT THING to happen to these people? or are these just events that happen in the story and is without approval and advocacy? cuz there's a HUGE difference between a simple DEPICTION of something and an ENDORSEMENT of something and it's unfair and lazy to not distinguish between such things.
Have to disagree with you on Chaykin's motives. That's really not a very good plan. Rather I'd submit he's an artistic antagonist wanting to provoke thought about the subject matter (often with little regard for his own view point). Black Kiss II seems to deliberately piss off fans on the 1st volume. I consider myself a fan but rarely relish starting a new book he's written
I agree.
Simply portraying something in a piece of media is not the same as endorsing it.
Sometimes if you want to pass comment on something you take exception to without coming across as preachy it makes sense to exaggerate it to the point of bad taste.
Obviously you then run into the risk of people taking your work at face value, or even just perpetrating the thing that you're attempting to satirise.
I'm not familiar enough with this person's work to comment on whether this is an accurate assessment of authorial intent however it fits the characterisation given in this overview.
Yeah it more seems like he was saying “look how clearly wrong this is, it this what you all want to happen?”
I saw an interview with him about black kiss. He said it was a response to the comics code coming down on him for American Flagg etc. So he decided to make a comic that violated the comics code in every way possible just to piss them off
I remember when Atlas launched and I *loved* the character, tone & look of the Scorpion; I was SO disappointed when, after a few issues, this Chaykin guy was gone and the Scorpion was remade as generic skin-tight superhero. When living in No. Miami Ceach, I stopped in at the comics shop one afternoon and they had industry artists doing Q&A with the public. A fellow I'll not name with one of the Big Two did receive some questions I thought were silly but he also looked and sounded very bored and dismissive of the wide-eyed fans. Howard Chaykin came out next. I was impressed! Chaykin seemed more excited to converse with the fans than they were to meet him! He gave full, happy attention to questions and discussed rather than answer! I'd not yet heard of the American Flagg!! series. After a while, I said, "I need to get into this!" I left to hit up an ATM and retuned to buy a copy of every issue at that point. I'd returned too late, however, to have him him sign them (which he was doing for free!)...but I loved the series he was crafting! i recall I later read an interview and when he was asked what AF!! is about, he said, "Violence. Sex. And patriotism." While I do not claim to to know his heart, I believe the "mixed signals" in his work reflect that he deeply loves America and liberty yet recognizes how $#!++y human nature can be (so incorporates that sad reality into stories) and that he is challenging the readers to *think* about the issues genuinely important not only to themselves be to the posterity of our often unappreciated freedom. The world is a place beautiful, strange, madcap, twisted, awful and a place that YOU can choose to help shape: What do you want the world to be like? He is a fascinating and precious storyteller!
The hypersensitive culture we are currently living in is worse than the comics code ever was.
Thats the fact...jack!
From what you’ve described, I don’t see how Hysteria would come off as transphobic or xenophobic. Portraying a group as the victims of violence is hardly hardly being prejudice or discriminatory. Quite the opposite in my mind.
They're also portrayed as criminals that deserve their punishment.
ComicTropes I’d say that’s a misreading of what’s presented. For example, Chrissie Silver (the trans woman character) is clearly shown to kill out of self defense and then is wrongfully punished by the justice system.
What I’ve noticed is when Chaykin presents events without telling readers what to think, some mistake it as some kind of endorsement. Not at all. He expects his readers to be able to read his work without being spoon fed.
Any complete reading of DSOH shows that Chrissie Silver is the heart and soul of the book, as well as it’s most interesting character.
jackanaples I like Chrissie too. Yeah, she’s not a good person, but is hardly presented as some kind of degrading caricature of trans people. She’s cynical, deviant, very much a product of her world.
@@ComicTropes no man, you got it all wrong, it portrays people treating them like criminals, that is totally the opposite to what you say.
It still has the issue of using marginalized groups as torture porn. Especially that one cover. Also with it being a cis author dealing with issues of trans people it can come of at best talking over people who have experienced this repeatedly or worst using the real life abuse and trauma as a prop to tell a story. It doesn't really benefit a marginalized group by constantly showing they are brutalized. Showing this to in particular trans people actively hurts them. You don't need to remind them that they are often murdered more and that the justice system wants them dead. Trans people do to environmental and societal factors have a higher rate of suicide, suicide idealization, self-hate, anxiety, trust, and health issues. Bigotry literally takes years off our lives and if health issues develop we can completely screwed over and be denied care. I will give him the benefit of the doubt and say that since it is a cynical look at the future that the system is meant to be evil and corrupt. Rather than doing the trope of LGBTQ person suffers at the end there could be a rising up or resistance like having the sex worker trans people develop a defensive and protective coalition and group. A little bit of hope in a cynical book goes a long way.
It also would be better for a trans person to write stories about their experiences and issues they face especially something as graphic as that.
American Flagg was visionary. It was also quite amusing. Loved his puns, like the Mall names, character names, etc. Just amazing stuff. And his characters were all multi-dimensional. Always thought that it would have made a decent movie or maybe a Netflix series.
Kenn Dunn It was almost turned into a tv series by Luc Besson. Unfortunately, VALERIAN flopped and the Europa studio went bankrupt.
Loved it!
Its a such a shame coz Luc Besson is the only one with enough sauce I can imagine could've adapt American Flagg faithfully with also it's political undertone. If anyone else will make it nowadays, they will just simplify it
Thanks for doing this Chris - great stuff as always
I met him at our local ‘Greater Austin Comic-Con show recently, He was actually pretty nice and actually complemented me on my haircut LOL,
He has a presence that you just can’t forget once you’ve met him though. 🙂
Chaykin sounds a lot like Paul Verhoeven of comics.
This video was especially fun to watch after having a discussion with the owner of my local comics shop about the time she met Howard Chaykin. He's a bit before my time, so some of the story was out of context for me. This really helped put the missing pieces into proper perspective.
I laughed really hard at the quote about women with big tits, as it sounded a lot like one of the things she'd said about Chaykin.
I think you're missing the point of a lot of Chaykin's work. Depicting certain types of violence - as what appears in Divided States of Hysteria - is not necessary an endorsement of said violence, but rather an indictment of it.
Lamar Henderson Weird that a guy whose channel is devoted to comics completely missed that point. It’s so obvious it’s ridiculous.
its trauma porn which is shit
By that logic, The Birth Of A Nation would be an indictment of lynching.
theMoporter
No, it's not. Because it's the intention that matters.
Jay Smith which is why he’s encouraging people to mention and talk about what they did or didn’t get out of the book. There’s nothing ridiculous about that.
Another great episode! I didn't know he worked with Wally Wood between Gil and Neal. What a line up of talent!
American Flagg! didn't actually use Zip-A-Tone. Rather, Chaykin used a special art board called Craftint Duoshade illustration boards.
Lamar Henderson yeah he used a ton of Zipatone on Black Kiss but Am Flagg was all Duotone.
On American Flagg I think he used Coquille board along with lithographic crayon for shading effects.
At a con, I was just standing next to the line of people who wanted sketches from him, because I didn't know him then. We were talking while he did the sketches and the people in the line didn't even say "thank you". He is the friendlies comic artist I ever met.
@9:07 Everyone gangster until you realize 2031 is only 10 years away now.
I enjoyed this one. I knew of Chaykin growing up, seeing covers of his work here and there. I appreciate how you thoughtfully lay out the history in each video, offering important context behind how events unfold and throwing in some insightful commentary.
7:40 - Mike Grell got the same flak - he even did one later having "The Warlord" meet "Green Arrow" over that identity crisis. One of the funniest issues in otherwise serious comics out there!
Love Chaykin's works. He's one of the guys that upped the bar, both in technical skill and expression in art.
What is this "Iron Wood" feature that Chaykin did? I think you meant Iron Wolf! ;-)
Yup, I mispoke twice. All I can say is it's the middle of summer and when I turn on the lights and turn off the a/c, it gets very, very, very hot.
Wasn't; Ironwood a porno comic from Fantagraphics?
@@6AM_YT Can't remember the company, but it was. Bill Willingham a full ten years before his work on Fables.
I've known about Screentone since the 90s. I assume Zipatone is the exact same thing?
I suspect Howard Chaykin would have absolutely LOVED the Lupin III manga series.
How did the DSOH #4 cover make you think he was xenophobic? It seems obviously the opposite to me. The cover depicts a Pakistani (?) man who worked in the US at a quintessential American store having been humiliated and lynched for being Pakistani. The man served a country that he might have claimed as his own or might not have, but regardless, he was lynched for his ethnicity. That's a comment on how xenophobic US culture is.
I haven't read it, so I can't comment on the transsexual prostitute situation, but as you described it, it could be a matter of showing that transsexual people are capable of being bad people, but certainly assaulting them is terrible as well. Maybe he's just trying to shine a spotlight on things we don't want to see rather than giving his opinion on them here? It just sounds to me like you're jumping the gun to call Chaykin bigoted when he clearly seems otherwise.
It showed the ugly side of humanity and the Comic Tropes guy was repulsed by that. I'm south Asian (not southeast Asian as the Comic Tropes guy mistakenly alluded to) myself. I'm glad that Chaykin showed it. Even before 9/11, I grew up with a great deal of discrimination against me. I've met people who really would have hung me if they could get away with it. Chaykin pushed the boundaries in portraying America as a dystopian society. For me, it served as a cautionary tale, and it didn't detract from my pride in being an American. I have a lot of respect for Howard Chaykin for making that series.
I think the Elseworlds Batman: Dark Allegiances set just prior to WWII had some telling political commentary, and don't forget Power and Glory...
It's a sad state when saving money is a controversial decision.
Skipped "Shadow"? I really enjoy your show, dude. As popular as comic books are right now, it is still hard to find stuff on the artists and writers. I really appreciate your show!
The reaction to Wonder Woman/Alex Ross made my day. Well done!
I love how people are like "keep politics out of comics or comic book movies" when the comics have always been political (be it liberal or conservative). It baffles me!
@milster Your last sentence is what I am trying to talk about.
I preferred Helfer's monthly run on The Shadow in the 80s, after Chaykin's limited series had run its course. In fact, those early monthly issues introduced me to the incredible artwork of Bill Sienkiewicz, who remains my favorite artist in the history of the medium.
Yes, all awesome!
I think I get what Chaykin was going for with Divided States. I haven't read it myself -- but going off of what he and Image have said in the wake of the whole "rghrghrgh, boycott Image and Diamond Distributors!" uproar, it seems to me that all of the violence there is supposed to come across as abhorrent not pleasurable. More "things might get pretty fucked up in the next few years, and I'm not okay with any of this" than exploitative. I don't know the guy personally and won't pretend to either, but that's what I've parsed out.
1First has definitely had a very interesting history; could be good subject matter for an episode. One of those defunct publishers that came back from the grave (like Valiant and Caliber), but then they merged with another once defunct creator-centric publisher, Devil's Due.
Chaykin's work really blew my mind back in the day - American Flagg, the Blackhawk books and the few Shadow issues he did were among my favorite of the 80's, and to a degree have all held up pretty well. I can't quite connect to his later work, as his various fetishes have taken center stage, and the political messages feel like they are hammered home with a sledge hammer. Still - one of the greats. Thank you very much for this
I don't think he's cynical. It's just the uncensored camera.
He's a creator, his creations are cynical but he is not. Yee.
Read his editorials. He is extremelly cynical.
Then you're delusional, or don't understand what cynical means.
TheBayzent As he puts it, a cynic would give the audience what it wants and laugh at them behind their backs. Rather, he’s a skeptic. He gives the audience what he likes and doesn’t care what they think.
Howard will forever be the man you drew the first Star Wars comic book waaay back in 1977.
And he *hates* when fans say that to him.
I find it funny that this is the second video I've seen of yours and the first one was on Jim Shooter. I worked with Chaykin and let me tell you, he has some words on Shooter and they are not pretty.
Another great 'oh hi' buddy, keep 'em coming. Love the content as always! Thanks for staying consistent, I am always excited to see your new videos!!
Yeah, I'm with you Chris. I don't love everything he does, but I respect him as a true artist/businessman
Good watch. You should really do more on the First Comics titles, or even the company itself. They were pretty influential for a while there, and tend to be overlooked by younger readers who don't know their history. If nothing else, series like Grell's Starslayer and Sable also deserve a look, and Grimjack, Dynamo Joe, and Nexus were some of the better scifi comics of their era (or any other, if you ask me).
Norm Breyfogle was on First's Whisper, even doing the lettering before he got hired on Detective Comics with Alan Grant.
I'm very curious about the the Divided States comics now. Tropes read it but I'm not sure if he had the right take away. To me, the cover of the fourth comic on its own isn't meant to be seen as an endorsement of xenophobia. Its shocking but I don't recognize any sense of approval. The cover uses a predominantly cold color pallet and the empty side walk stretching out into the infinite darkness of the night sky seems to invoke a sort of isolation. Its... reflective. Sorta just confronts you with the cold reality of how messed up the setting is.
I mean, imagine you were walking alone through the empty streets of a city within the Divided States and you came upon this corpse hanging like a flag in front of an all-american diner. It confronts *you* with the barbarism of the act. There aren't any characters on the cover to draw cues from. Its just you.
At least he's not Frank Miller
What's bad about Frank Miller?
@@Islandswamp He's a terrible artist, will sexualize any female character that's of legal age, writes dialogue that's overly repetitive, thinks Batman is a perfect being that's above the law, and wrote the overly Islamaphobic comic "Holy Terror". If you want a better idea of Frank Miller's work, just search "AT4W Miller Time"
Wait... the hardline objectivist Ditko was in talks to form a trade union? Would love to see how that conversation went.
idk the thing about the trans woman in histeria.. thats just a thing that happens. saying and showing a thing that happens in real life. showing it being brutal and disgusting i dont think is transphobic. i think its a statment.
I don't think talking/showing hate crimes makes someone hateful. I'm trans, and one of the biggest problems our community faces is that trans people - especially sex workers - are viciously attacked, and everyone looks the other way and pretends nothing is happening, even supposed allies and progressives. We have a lot of allies on e.g. bathroom bills, but nobody wants to talk about how trans women have average life expectancy of 35 due to ridiculous suicide and murder rates. I haven't read this particular comic (I've read his other work) but it seems to me that Chaykin might be full of just anger at apathy - which might explain why his characters are men of action unafraid to take a stand when needed.
For the fans of zip-atone let me recommend John Severin who deserves more recognition.
Could you do a Lee Falk video? That would be awesome.
I'm the 500th guy here who locked onto Chaykin in my twenties because of his GoodGirl art and eventually met him at a con and found him absolutely delightful.
Chaykin on Star Wars: "I only saw the script while it was still in development. I just looked like another boring space opera. If I'd known it was going to become what it became, I'd have taken more care with it."
The line between gripping commentary and just plain torture porn is a line that is surprisingly thin given the circumstances. Maybe a read is in order for me
**notices Akira poster in background** yeah I think I’ll see this guy out
I love his Shadow run. His art has the throwback look of an earlier time. When I draw I find myself trying to do his style.
Grandpa edgie boy.
It's funny. Chaykin produces material that would be considered normal for adult consumption in the context of novels, movies, and cable television... but because it's in comics, part of the audience thinks he's trying hard to be "edgy".
He isn't. He's trying to make comics for an adult audience. Adults like him who watch HBO series; read novels by authors like Scott Phillips, Don Winslow, and Megan Abbott; and see movies like ZODIAC or BASIC INSTINCT.
That's it. It's not difficult to figure out.
Howard chaykin is visionary
I bought his work for years and years.his solo stuff like american flagg is classic and so far beyond what everybody is was doing that noone to this day can match his unique point of view.
Very interesting overview of Chaykin. Thank you.
Another creator you might want to cover some time is Mike Friedrich. In addition to working for the big guys, he started his own independent brand, Star*Reach, in 1974, way before Image, etc. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Friedrich .
Loved this !anyone else ever notice the mandatory BJ scene in just about all his adult themed comics ? Lol and also dreadstar was NOT published by first comics originally epic comics published it starlin took it to first when he was unhappy with marvel.
I met Chaykin at Phoenix Comics in the '90s. He autographed my Shadow graphic novel. Nice guy!
I still don't process that you're still a rather smaller RUclipsr. It's especially strange considering what you're talking about in many episodes like this: unappreciated efforts.
Oh, sorry: *"speaking of underappreciated efforts, let's talk about..."*
Gotta say, Chaykin's characters look similar to Bruce Campbell
Wait... So you're implying that the artist showing that there are hate crimes in America may mean that he's transphobic and xenophobic? Huh... Okay, then...
I'm shocked. For someone who seems so knowledgable and bright to mistake a writers political views for that of any of his characters basically boils down to not giving him/her enough credit. Just because I may lean breatharian it does not follow that any character I develop will be the ultimate light eating moron lol. Anyways, maybe this will give you new perspective.
I think that -- from a liberal & American standpoint -- Chaykin's use of offensive concepts and such evocative scenes of violence is a means of conveying a kind of dismay with the state of things at the time of the publication of some of his more radical works (Divided States of Hysteria, in particular). As a way of holding a mirror up to the face of the American public, as a reflection of the ugliness that some among us (Americans) show to the world at large. What we might represent to other countries or peoples.
I wonder if Chaykin watched alot of Sam Peckinpah movies?
I'd actually be curious as a trans woman and former sex worker to speak to him and get his take, From my perspective (I have not read the comic) It could be about raising concerns about the violence trans sex workers get, or either group really, done in his grim style, as it is a actual problem. Good chance I honestly could be murdered and it scares me, and if he is attempting to raise this issue good on him
You can tell the more over the top comics he wrote are his worst case scenario for the US not his political beliefs
Yes, Divided States of Hysteria is transgressive. That is entirely the point of it. To shows how selfish and stupid hateful people can be; and in the end it’s only the characters who choose to grow and become better people in spite of the shitty world they live in who are allowed to be free. You can say positive things through negativity. That’s satire.
That union would have been awesome as a 1980s Image
American Flagg is just one innovation after another.
Wow this my first contempory comic tropes, since discovering the channel a few weeks ago. Howard Chaykin is a great choice. 1.59 in so far, you just HAVE to mention his penchant for drawing women in stockings and high heels!!
U wanna know somethin ?
Fuck technology
Art is done best by the masters hand
Don't let computers do all the work that's lazy
Watched a few Tropes last night. ..now first thing this morning. Thanks Chris interesting and well done as usual!
You left out one of the best things he created in the 2000s, American Century. It's an awesome slow-burner.
....the "sword of sorcery" would be a decent D&D weapon.
Make it like decent regular steel sword damage, with an additional D4 damage that has a 25% chance to change all damage for that attack into magical damage of the enemy you are swinging at weakness (if the D4 lands on 4 then that effect happens)
Edgy comics are so relevant and necessary to read- even if you don't end up liking them when you are through with them. These creators force us to focus on the reality of the world- the perceivable and non-perceivable. These times-focused books can also improve your writing and insightfulness on characters and settings. I have never read his work but now I must. Thank you for this review.
My dad is friends with chaykin lol
Netflix should do American Flagg
Do Rick Veich next
novideosarehere there's so much there, from Heartburst to Swamp Thing to Brat Pack to Can't Get No. Oof, huge!
I do admire a lot of what Veitch has done so I will cover his work at some point, probably a big focus on Brat Pack. But it'll be a while till I get to him.
A review of The One would be amazing. Loving Comic Tropes
I love his BoyMaximortal series so much. 🙂
Fighting for democracy while being authoritarian? Sounds american to me
It’s 4:30 man I’m tryna snooze
what do you mean?
I worked in a comic store as a teen in mid 80s. Back then Grendel and American Flagg were the type of comics that didn't fit the "norm".
I got out of the comic scene in 80s, so excuse me if anything is off....
Grendel was different due to the killing, and Flagg due to raunchy innuendo. I remember thumbing thru an issue one day, and the woman said to him basically "I cant imagine you being at half mast" or something to that effect. heh
Yeah that is tame in modern times, but back then it was holy moly.
I recently saw a hand made Grendel figure on Ebay in the 1/12 scale. I tried to win it, but someone wanted it more.
Richard C. Meyer. Now that guy is controversial.
Hey, Chris! I'm glad you mentioned Atlas's 'The Scorpion'. It is the same character that would eventually evolve into Dominic Fortune for Marvel. However, the character you refer to as 'Ironwood' is actually 'Iron WOLF'. I've never been a huge Chaykin fan, but i admire his talent and his work. I was always fond of his short lived character 'Monark Starstalker' [From Marvel Premiere #32] I would have loved to see how that character evolved if the premise would have continued. Wasn't a fan of his revisionist 'Shadow' or his revisionist 'Blackhawk'. American Flagg was bizarre, and i think i owned the first 2 issues, but that's as far as it went. Loved his 'Star Wars' work, though.
You did a good job on Chaykin. I met the man at a small convention. Really nice guy. As to his politics, I recall speaking with him. When we chatted he told me how he was a fan of theater, and how theater informed his work. Ten minutes later, when he was talking to another guy, he informed this guy he was a big fan of porn and porn really informed his work. He seemed to adapt his influences depending on who he was speaking to. As to violence in comics, I sort of see Frank Miller as being a fairly important benchmark here. There's this bizarre tendency to push violence as comics. It's almost a kind of macho reaction to the relative position of the medium. Like a weird attention-getting strategy that backfires when graphic violence is taken to an absurd level. You might be able to write a scene in words that looks too much when visualized. And would probably never get filmed. May I recommend a piece on Kyle Baker? Baker's virtuosity is breathtaking in my opinion. He's done commercial stuff, but for me "King David" is a remarkable mix of Baker's style, cartoony while poignantly down to earth while subtly profound. I mean, this is The Book of Kings. Just incredible. His 1980s stuff at DC is excellent. His take on Punisher looks like Frank Castle through a Mad comics wringer. Baker is the most underrated artist/writer in the field.
Chaykin has been a lifelong fan of theater --especially stage musicals--, the American Song Book, and yes: pornography. All of them have influenced and informed his work to a large degree. That wasn't bullshit.
jackanaples didn’t say it was. I just remarked that Chaykin could adapt his rhetoric depending on the interviewer. And his politics might be like that.
geinikan1kan Chaykin’s politics are exactly what they’ve always been. He’s a liberal and a Democrat. Which isn’t to say that his characters are always that.
I think it's interesting how in the US we have walls of ice cream flavors, but when it come to politics, only a limited number of flavors. I never really worried about Chaykin's politics. My point was more to the politics of violence in comics. Chris had mentioned a certain ambiguity in Chaykin. The use of violence may create problems even affecting an artist’s political "intent." Sometimes visual language can affect an intended message in unintended ways.
Some generic soda is better than name brand, fight me
Eat your cereal
Where has this guy been all my life? All of this stuff sounds super interesting, especially Divided States. I know you seem confused by it, and I know I have yet to read a word from that comic, but it seems like that comic is just one big editorial cartoon about where we're headed. It may not be for anyone and just be his view of society breaking down in the next few years. His artwork is phenomenal too. It's weird that all I really know him from would be those Star Wars comics.
Yah, same. Definitely gonna check out some of his work.
I'm glad you guys are willing to give him a go - he's a favorite of mine and has been for a long time, i don't want to spoil the ending of Divided States - but it makes the transphobe tag in my opinion hard to justify (i'd like to know how many people who commented on it actually read it to the end), the problem with using rape in a story (film and comics alike) is it's used as short hand to show how evil the bad guys are and is a bit lazy. check out Satellite Sam as well - that's him and Matt fraction and has the some very recognizable themes.
Mark Lawrence Chaykin isn’t transphobic. All the Chrissie Silver stuff in the book is informed by a trans woman friend of his going back thirty years. She loves the character and the book by the way.
Eh, I dunno. It's funny, because year, after year, after year, after year, after year, the same people are saying the same thing. "Society's breaking apart", "we're all more divided than we were ten years ago", and things like that. And they've been saying that since civilization started.
We're not "headed" anywhere. A tiny minority of dorks are upset that some minority groups are finally not going the stand up comedy route to protest injustices, and more and more people are standing up for themselves more directly, but that's about it. We're not headed towards some social apocalypse.