Evolution of Goth Music
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
- Where did goth music come from and how has it evolved over the years? This video is a brief overview of the history of goth and related genres.
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Another British Punk era group that I think were particularly influential on what became Goth, and that don't get cited often in connection to it, were The Stranglers. That group had some songs that were pretty creepy and dark, like No More Heros, Strange Little Girl, The Raven, Golden Brown, All Roads Lead To Rome, and Everyone Loves Ya When Your Dead,
Good call! I’ve heard they were icons for Robert Smith in the early days…
girlllll we need (I NEED) more videos from you, you are literally new here but I LOVE your videos, finally a gothtuber that actually talks about music lol love youuu xx bb
I agree with you that Bauhaus was the start of goth music. Peter Murphy is the grandfather of Goth. In the 80’s “goth” wasn’t a word. So us kids listened to anything “alternative” which was for me (depending on where you lived) (I’m from the south US) violent femmes, the clash, Echo and the Bunnymen, the Cure, the Cult, Susie Sue, Joy Divion, etc. Music is an individual required taste. There is so much out there.
Definitely! The terms “Post Punk” and “Goth” were retroactively applied to these groups of music later on. I think “Punk” and “New Wave” were the only labels I mentioned that were actually used at the time.
@@CadaverKelly In the 80s, among my circle of ghoulish friends, we refereed to ourselves as either a grim guy or grim girl. I didn't hear goth be used until the mid 90s.
Joseph A That’s pretty consistent with a lot of other 80’s goths have said. It seems that “goth” as a term really came into play in the 90’s.
@@CadaverKelly I was there in England during the Punk /New Wave (of rock music) period . Futurism was a word that started to be applied in the late 70's eg John Foxx /Ultravox /Gloria Mundi.
Then the New Romantics appeared who were an offshoot of Futurism . Goth was another offshoot of late 70's New Wave and started with Pete Murphy and Bauhaus.
ps note in England New Wave has a different meaning to what people use it in the US. In England Joy Division, Simple Minds, Magazine and the Only Ones were New Wave. In the US bands like Culture Club and the Thompson Twins are seen as New Wave. To me these were simply new pop bands .
@Steve H I was also "there " at the time . Myself and my friends used the term "New Wave" to describe bands who were more musically sophisticated and technically proficient than Punk bands eg Magazine, Simple Minds, Joy Division etc. I did not hear the expression "post punk" until 20 years later. As you say it was never used to describe a genre but a period in time .
Now it is used as a genre in itself and is not historically accurate and is unnecessary. Punk and New Wave are enough . Goth was an offshoot of New Wave.
For another thing Punk has never gone away so how can there be post Punk ? It is an Oxymoron.
beginner goth here(ha idk what to call myself): thank you so much for making this video!!
beginner goths typically are known as “babybats” :)
Don't identify yourself as beginner goth or any other dumb labels like that. Just enjoy the music.
The proper term is fledgling
you're a baby bat!
@@box0choco593 I am not mad, where did you gather that from?
Thank you! I've been slowly getting into goth music, on a song by song case. I know I centrate around a few types of goth music but I'm just not sure about the subcategories yet (Especially because I'll really like a song/artist in a specific genre, then find another artist from the same genre and not be so fond). I've also slowly had more of the punky stuff growing on me- it's something I like listening to but would never seek out, but that's starting to change :> It's a breath of fresh air to see goths discuss the genres, as well as recommend songs within those.
Just start with Bauhaus and work your way outward from there. Bauhaus didn't think of themselves as goth. That didn't exist at the time. They were just a post-punk band with a dark sound. It was BECAUSE of Bela Lugosi's Dead appearing in the opening scene Tony Scott's 1983 "The Hunger" that they became the definers of the sound that we now call gothic rock.
Postpunk and Gothic has been strongly influenced by Psychadelic Rock. This Genre you should have mentioned.
(Velvet Underground, David Bowie)
And of course the German Band "Kraftwerk", without them there wouldn't be any Wave.
Dont forget The Doors
David Bowie produced a lot of Bauhaus' music. Bauhaus performed Ziggy Stardust and David Bowie performed Telegram Sam. Bauhaus' version of Ziggy Stardust is IMO superior to Bowie's original.
The vocals! Jim Morrison.
Blessings
@@theultrawarrior7448 Jim Morrison wanted to sound like Frank Sinatra 😂
@@trtr-bc3zl
And Goth wanted to sound like Jim 😅
Be blessed
This is fascinating, not only because it's educational and gives specific examples, but because I am starting to see now why I KINDA gravitate towards bits of goth culture without quite being a goth actually--I'm into the _related_ branches of music. Like New Wave and the "very goth adjacent" bands from the early '80s you mentioned. Where synths and poppy tunes mix with darker or spookier themes, that's where I come in. :)
Did you ever hear "Send me an angel" by Real Life?
I wish you would have continued further with the timeline in the 90's and 80's EBM :O
Excellent video! Thank you for contributing great information into the conversation.
Gothic Homemaker Thank you so much! 🦇
Thanks. Nice to see some bands get mentioned that can easily be overlooked these days. Notions of "what is goth," "what is punk," and "what is post punk" were not particularity segregated back then. There were subtle differences in sound and style, but they didn't translate into different "cultures" back then. Christian Death played with the Angelic Upstarts. 45 Grave played with Black Flag or the Circle Jerks. I'd run into the same people at shows as diverse as Fear, the Germs, the Gun Club, the Cramps, Johanna Went, Nervous Gender, the Flesh Eaters, Savage Republic, or the Fall. What eventually became considered "goth" certainly grew from the rather dark, moody, somewhat cynical and dystopian tendencies of post punk music that evolved after the initial period of punk rebelliousness faded with the realization that punks could not remake the world as they saw fit.
Thanks for this video so used to Goths being like our music is obscure it's obscure and then giving a hand full of examples this video really demyistifys it
Well done sister! I am from UK and was there , you nailed it bang on , that's exactly how it went down , I started listening to Siouxsie and the banshees and then the rest is history , not many people know Robert Smith spent some time with the Banshees
Really good and compact introduction to the subject. Great work!
After punk in the UK came “New Wave” which was a lot of not main stream and just put into that bracket
This was a really great video! I just discovered your channel and I'm super happy to see more stuff talking about the history of goth music. I totally get what you mean by keeping it simple for newcomers with the main 3 genres (and I agree those are the most important!), but I think coldwave should've gotten a brief mention. Even though it's technically the French/Belgian version of post-punk, it was very different from the UK's version as it focused on minimalism and embraced electronics early on -- but it was as equally as important for sculpting what would be defined as goth music in the late-80s and beyond. Many of today's new goth bands (Lebanon Hanover, Forever Grey, Hapax, Second Still, etc.) likely wouldn't be making the stuff they do without what the 80s coldwave bands laid down before them. But maybe that would've been a bit too much to slip into a basic introductory video! Regardless, I think you did a really great job.
Accumortis Thank you so much!! I actually am making a more detailed video getting into music organizational theory and will be mentioning Coldwave and Ethereal Wave in it.
@@CadaverKelly Awesome! Can't wait to see it!
I always considered goth to be one of many post-punk subsets, along with noise, no-wave, death rock, new romantic etc.
Thank you for posting this content I found it very helpful in brushing up on goth history. I heard at least one to three music groups that I've already heard of and you and some people in the comments gave me more sound to explore. I have been goth since 7th grade and I'm 19 now but I don't know any goth where I live. There were hardly any at school growing up(if any) . Not like I spoke to anyone to find out either. Wish I had the money for more goth cloths and i am not sure where to get them either. I've tried looking online to shop for them but they seem so expensive. If you or anyone else has an eye for where to buy some good goth cloths for cheap I would be very grateful. 😅
Hey Brittany, welcome! I actually plan to make a video on how to get involved in the goth community without going to events. I'm hoping to put that out sometime this week. I couldn't afford to go to events until I was in my mid-twenties. So, I definitely feel for that struggle. As for finding goth-friendly fashion on a budget, I use Amazon a lot and plan to post about affordable fashion options on my blog at the below URL:
cadaverkelly.com/category/fashion-and-beauty/
@@CadaverKelly thank you so much an and I look forward to watching the upcoming videos on your channel! 😄 Keep uploading 🦇🖤
Thank you so much! I'm hoping to upload a new video each week :)
@@brittanypaulsness8000 thrift stores! Ebay and amazon are all great for special gems or even basics. Search for black lace dress or black lace tops. Black skirts. Black boyfriend tops and you can jazz it all up with necklaces and chokers that you can also get for real cheap. You don't need to buy killstar. Although they do have killer sales at times.
Brittany Paulsness...Check out OFHERBSANDALTARS video he just put out about how to pick affordable Goth clothes...Not only just thrifting...He also made a part one as well and speaking of KILLSTAR, he made a video about that company quite recently as well...Easy to find these videos if you just check out the most recent oneS...He makes videos on all types of topics, but regarding affordable clothes AND some thoughts about KILLSTAR...there you go! 🎃🐾🐲🦄👑🎩🌈 🏳️🌈 🤖👽👻💀🧛 🧛♂️ 🏰 🧟♀️ 🧟♂️ ✌️🖖🤘🙏🏽☯️ 🕊️ ☮️
Hi an old eighties goth here from the u.k. Kelly the grandparents of goth back then we're the Damned , souxsie,and of course Bauhaus,my sisters partner is the brother in law of Peter Murphy ,Bauhaus are from Northampton just down the road from here .great video btw .
What a lovely introduction! I watched this video with a hand on my heart thinking that you're a black angel that has come down from above. 🖤🖤🖤 I hope your channel grows exponentially and puts channels like that of ReeRee Philips and ToxicTears "out of business".
It would have been nice to see you go more into details with ethereal wave and synth-pop, but a great start nonetheless! I am subscribing right away!
Some of my favourite goth bands are: Merciful Nuns, Nosferatu, Rosetta Stone, Faith and the Muse, The Frozen Autumn, Clan of Xymox, BlutEngel, London After Midnight, Paralysed Age, and Siouxsie Sioux.
Excellent video with great information thanks 👍👍👍
there's also coldwave, a minimalist synth subgenre of gothic rock originally coming from france with bands such as little nemo, lost desert, and second still, and ethereal wave which has shoegazey/classical elements and stemmed from the 4ad record label with bands like cocteau twins, this mortal coil, and mors syphilitica
Another direct link between Punk and Goth is The Cure who were basically a Punk band in their "Killing An Arab" era. Also, The Stooges are from the 1960s and much more of a Proto-Punk band, along with the MC5 and Jonathan Richman.
i'm actually still molding my music tastes into the thing i want them to be, i'm slowly taking in anything useful to me because some years later, i'm gonna be a goth.
This video came up as a suggestion for me, so I clicked on it and I just want to say I love your style, you're adorable! Also, I love your speaking voice, I could listen to you talk all day! Thanks for making awesome videos about goth:)
Thank you so much! 😊
Excellent video! I subscried! I'm a little surprised you didn't dive more into the the early industrial scene that came out of no-wave! But hey, maybe that just means you haven't heard it yet! It might be up your alley. Look into some stuff like SWANS, Coil or Annie Anxiety! I think you'd enjoy it.
Stay cool, homie!
Post punk became new wave
Super informative and clear video, thank you! 🎶
When I think of new wave I think Duran Duran, The Police, Depeche Mode, Katrina and the Waves, Thomas Dolby, etc. -- I would never have thought of Information Society since I see them more as (pop) electronica. This is a great video though -- I might put it in a playlist along with a few other as good explanation of what goth music is.
Jared, that's Top 40's 80s; not "new wave".
Great video!!! Very informative. What is the background music about 5:56?? Very dark and mysterious😀😎
I need to know!
Wonderfully made video 👏 you have great taste and you're very knowledgeable, it's quite refreshing actually. I just saw Clan of Xymox and Peter Murphy! They were amazing. Especially Peter Murphy his voice is so amazing.
Tish Orth That’s amazing! I’m going to see Clan of Xymox in November, I’m pretty excited!! 😊
@@CadaverKelly 😀
I just stumbled onto your videos and like them I grew up into punk rock in the 80s and there wasn't a lot of weirdos back then so we united no mater what music you listened to but since we all hung out welistened rock all types of stuff punk Ska death rock new wave so it's kinda cool to hear you talk about bands I haven't heard in years so thanks for the video's
Damned had their 1st single out before the shady Pistols.
That quintessential Gothic Rock sound could just as easily be called "The Leeds sound," in the same way that grunge and early 90s punk from the PNW (like The Gits) were referred to as "The Seattle sound."
Sisters, the Lorries, March Violets... All Leeds.
Interesting insight! Leeds sounds like my kind of place 😎
Forget about Leeds. Go to Germany, back in 1972. The band *Neu!* released Negativland, a track that defines post-punk, industrial and goth at the same time. *watch?v=fhiNtanvImg*
@AJtheory Si was in *Batfish Boys*.
...Danse Society
Great video. Lots of info and insight! Thank you!
Found you via an ad and instantly subscribed!! Cute, goth, well spoken, and did I mention cute?? 😀
Cat Cela Ojo Thank you so much! Welcome 😊
Back in the day, before Goth was actually called "Goth," quite a few Deathrockers I knew (I was in the American scene) tried to act like they really didn't approve of The Sisters of Mercy for inclusion into the "Deathrock canon" of the times, preferring primarily guitar-driven bands like Christian Death, 45 Grave, and The Birthday Party (bands that were more punk rock-adjacent, as you point out). But, the actual truth was that, at the end of every single gig and late night after-party that I went to back then, "Floodland" could be heard playing on HEAVY rotation. (I'm still a fan of TSOM to this day). Great overview, btw.
Try Yugoslav new wave and dark vawe, it had a very great scene. Some bands: Ekaterina Velika, Morbidi i Mnoci, Dobri Isak, Padot na Vizantija, Phantasmagoria and many more. A great channel for such a music is Dronemf.
Thank you for this video! What was the name of the song playing in the background while you mentioned Sisters of Mercy?
Thanks for all the bands I need to check out 🖤 I am very open to listening to any music 🖤I love the goth scene.
Your videos are truly lovely, Kelly and I can feel the passion you have for music... I just need to point out a couple of things in this video which were a bit grating to my ears! Because you are so precise using the terms proto, post, adjacent, etcetera... The Stooges and the New York Dolls are definitely proto-punk and not strictly punk. They shouldn't really be grouped with The Sex Pistols or other post-76 band. Also, the term New Wave used to describe a more commercial evolution of post-punk elements is something I heard from Americans a lot, but in Europe/UK we don't discriminate post-punk and New Wave in the same way. The Cure, Bauhaus and Joy Division have always been called New Wave , since the very beginning.
Great run down of great bands! Love Clan of Xymox! This popped up randomly in my feed, but good Stuff👀👍
I was a goth back in the day. Designed a lot of my clothes (much to my parent's horror!) I still have the ticket stubs from seeing Sisters of Mercy, The Mission UK, Siouxie and the Banshees, the Cure and others at The Ritz in NYC... I miss those days. I'm not impressed with today's music. Very few bands catch my interest.
Thumbs up for mentioning Two Witches (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Witches) - my personal favorite of goth bands ever ...probably because I have been lucky enough to get some stray sprinkles of goth fair...witch dust on me when attending same university courses with Nauku back in the day ;)
Why did you not make a reference to the Damned (earlier in the video?)
Re The Bat Cave. Goth began in Le Phonograghiqe in Leeds, before the Bat cave. I was there.
YOURE SO LOVELY!!! 🖤🖤 Such a great video. Super informative
Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed it :)
Great video! I’m not a goth, but I love 80’s goth music
80’s music is great! Welcome 🙂
I'm sharing this channel with everyone I know
What about The Mission Uk ?
Great Video. Very informative.
apologies if this is already answered but what's the song playing during the post punk section?
Thanks for the love cadavor kelly.
Help omg i hope u make more vids soon. Im enjoying your channel a lot and will share it with friends
Thank you so much! My channel is pretty new. I plan to upload one to two new videos each week. 😊
What’s your opinion on bands like All Your Sisters and Have A Nice Life? I consider them goth (maybe not all of Have A Nice Life’s songs) but don’t see them getting brought up a lot in the scene
Edit: if you haven’t heard them I recommend Shame by All Your Sisters and Woe Unto Us by Have A Nice Life
it resonates with so many of us and brings us together.it makes us all unique.
ugh youtube needs more videos like this! Thank you
Bela lugosi dead was in a movie THE HUNGER, with catherine deneuve, susan sarandon and david bowie, about vampires....so....bauhaus and goth were born.
Great video! Amazing travel through music 💜
Great content, thanks!
You need more subs
Talks about Punk Rock for a moment,forgets to mention the bloody Ramones.
Great video! I was wondering what was the song playing in the background when you were talking about punk? Thank you!
Thank you! It's a song from the RUclips free music library called "Half Pipe" by Huma-Huma
Here it is:
ruclips.net/video/TJRX1aBzfn8/видео.html
In which genre would you place Sigue Sigue Sputnik ?
Bauhaus might have invented Goth Music technically speaking but The Sisters of Mercy in their Wayne Hussey era 1983-1985 personified it. Really for me there was only ever three real hard core Goth bands. These were The Sisters of Mercy, The Mission, and The Fields of the Nephilim. Souxisie and The Cure started off as Punks and then absorbed Gothic influences so for me they always had their roots in Punk. The Fields of the Nephilim who came after the Sisters really took Goth to its next natural level. Thats why I consider the three most important bands in the Eighties Gothic scene to be The Sisters of Mercy, The Mission(who were half The Sisters of Mercy) and then the Fields of the Nephilim. All the rest except Bauhaus who created the template but didnt fulfill its potential were wannabes. Thats how I saw it at the time and I was there and thats how I still see it today.
Absolutely love this video!!!
Outside of the Batcave crowd most people in that scene just called the music Indy or Alternative. The way I understood it, it was basically the Punk's who didn't sign up to the Punk "year zero" thing and still loved Bowie, Roxy, Velvets, Doors and this reflects in the music, not to mention many on the Alternative scene were too young to have been Punk's and this was their thing. I saw the Sisters and the Cult, Banshees back then, Siouxie Sioux was truly a force of nature!
Don't forget the New Romantics!
Very good video. The musical world of Postpunk, Wave, Goth or whatever we call it is so rich of undiscovered bands and styles, it is impossible for anyone to cover all the genres and influences. I am still looking for the Marble Index by Nico Some people say that it is the first Gothic Album. I don't know and that's OK. Good Video. 👍🏻🦇
Two questions:
1. So, what about Coldwave? There's neither much information nor lots of examples about this genre out there, I don't exactly know what to consider as Coldwave. All I could find out was:
> Post-Punk sounding bands
> Using synthesizers that does effect the sound in a colder / less lively / more melancolic way
> Term mainly attached to bands from france
If so, why isn't "Fade to Grey" from Visage considered as Cold Wave?
How would you describe this genre?
2. In the german wiki, the term Dark Wave is treated as an umbrella term for all dark and melancholic genres that derives from Post-Punk and New Wave including Gothic Rock, Cold Wave, Electro Wave, Ethereal, Neofolk, Neoklassik and so on, not as a genre for just being considered as a darker version of New Wave. Also, a german documentary treated "Dark Wave" as a synonym for the 80s Gothic-Rock scene and the music that belongs to it. Discogs sais something similar: "Dark Wave, also written as one word, is a term coined in the mid-'80s to describe the dark and melancholy side of New Wave and Post-Punk music." Do these descriptions appeal correct to you? Or is the term just very ambiguous (includes all these genres (theoretically) but mainly applied to dark sounding New Wave)?
Otherwise, I really found everything very well explained. So thanks a lot for this video!
No problem! I don’t agree with everything on the Wikipedia pages. I group these categories based on the sound. I did a brief overview video of how I analyze the music. Cold Wave is very minimal and machine-like. A great modern Cold Wave band is Lebanon Hanover and I think they may be on tour right now. Here’s the link to my music/theory analysis video:
ruclips.net/video/g40tG4a4nQ4/видео.html
@@CadaverKelly Thanks a lot for answer. Yes, I watched it right after I wrote the comment. The analysis video explained everything that was a bit unclear to me in a very good way.
Lebanon Hanover is great indeed, especially their track Gallow Dance. The machine-like sound you mentioned can be heard especially in their songs "Sadness Is Rebellion" and "Somehow We LI Get Through This", I think.
Great video!
Would you list the songs that you used in the background please? Amazing vid!!! 💖
Am I the only one who considers "Don't Fear the Reaper" to be an early goth tune? I get it's 70's hard rock, but between the subject matter and the overall sound it just screams goth to me.
i learn so much thank you
I LOVE your content!
I get confused alot with dark post punk and gothic rock
5:56 what song is playing here?
Where did you get the awesome Siouxsie and the banshees t shirt from? It's so cool
Interesting summary. Reading an interview with Greg Mackintosh this afternoon he describes the problems Paradise Lost ran into with their record company at the time when they tried to release an album with 3 songs that were clearly 'goth music', including a Sisters of Mercy cover. I can see the record company's POV - they've paid for a death/doom album and been handed something else. Like it or not, the industry is absolutely 'hung up' on genres.
Punk Rock music, grandfather of Goth music 😄
Love it.... Bauhaus,Gang of four,The Cure,... I really still dig the way deep bands... But anywho... I am 48 and grew up in a several great eras of stylistic births.... The first time I heard of Love and Rockets I could honestly say there was a shift,along with Sisters of Mercy it was a big step in the way of several crossing over/spill over bands. I could care less of the classification. I just love synthwave and great songwriting as well as great vocalists and guitarists that can mesh and intertwine all these combinations into something cohesive and continue in a revolutionary step.....
Where did you get your Siouxsie tee shirt 😍
It's sad that you didn't mention the birthday party. But generally this video is really good
Well done 🖤🖤🖤
Actually there is quite a bit of interesting "Proto Goth", predating Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Joy Division etc... You will find some of it in early Alice Cooper (his first album "Pretties For You" has a goth touch to it). Same with Nico (some dark stuff ... heroine will do that to you). "The End" by "The Doors" also carries a bit of that sound (although not genuine goth). The infrastructure was definitely being built about 10 years prior to what would actually be considered "Goth" but not just from the developing punk scene of the 70s
I focused more on goth music also punk music since 2005. I was 14 and in high school as a freshman.
What about Coldwave and the Touching Pop movement? 🧛🏼♀️
Asylum Party, Mary Goes Round, Babel 17, Maquis de Sade and Little Nemo to name a few.
Great video though, I love your content.
Thank you so much! I mentioned Cold Wave and Asylum Party in another video. Here’s the link: ruclips.net/video/g40tG4a4nQ4/видео.html
I love the Stooges ❤
Você é incrível! Adorei você! Bravíssimo vídeo.
I love all the names here
so what youre saying is by proxy most of our parents unwittingly consumed goth music ?
Absolutely! Mine listened to some early goth and didn’t even realize it 😮
in the 80's the bands like bolshoi, the lord of the new church, the cult, xymox, xmal deutchland, flesh for lulu, the mission uk, gene love jezebel, bauhaus, etc. we called it New Wave Music plain and simple. Personally I never heard about Goth, Goth, Goth in the 80's then.
What is the song from 0:00 to 0:08? And would The Birthday Massacre be considered a goth band? Also, what is the difference between gothic/doom metal and goth music (is there any relation between the them)?
Really great video. Where the HECC is my Type-O Negative mention tho? T-T
They aren't goth.
Where do cyberpunk bands like Front Line Assembly or Cut Rate Box fall under?
Ive been more Cyberpunk, but gradually developed more of an interest in the macab, and less the scifi aspect.
Why you gotta leave out The Birthday Party? They were very early Goth. They should have been mentioned at the same time as The Cure or Bauhaus.
BAUHAUS my favorite from them, are the Fast,, hitting songs,, Double Dare?, we got called DeathRocker kid by older Punks.. cheers from Orange County California,, 50 and still find new music.. Post Punk is alive
I love the goth aesthetic and literature that inspired goth but I cant get kicks from the music. I do like music that influenced goth. But I dont understand why I dont like the music itself.
good job I liked the video.
Do you have a spotify playlist of this stuff, or any you can recommend?
Here’s a good one for Deathrock and goth:
open.spotify.com/user/daveazoicer/playlist/6npODHOYpGJ4XmT3osLhXO?nd=1
Here’s one for New Wave/Dark Wave/Post Punk (Goth Adjacent):
open.spotify.com/user/daveazoicer/playlist/3QjPKnXZ9j8RL3n6pTFlqb?nd=1
But why do some goth muaic sounds like surfer dude music?
Shame the pictures put up of "sisters of mercy" was NOT the line up of " First and last and always " but the post split line up
The MISSION UK followed and is still amazing live ,
New Wave was not cheesy 80s music but followed on from post punk in the late 70s.