I watched a video called “the magic is in the mids”. I’ve used the technique of putting pass filters from 200 hz to 4K and just mix everything with the filters active. It’s amazing just how amazing everything sounds afterwards. The extreme lows and highs don’t have a chance to bestow their lies to my ears.
No kidding -So, you're saying you could just put the high pass and low pass on any old speaker instead of buying NS10's?? By "amazing how amazing things sound afterwards" are you talking about how things translate or how things sound once you take the filters off? Thanks.
Yeah the classics NS-10 to allegedly "simulate the kitchen radio sound" for proofing purposes, but honestly - if you wanna -fake- simulate a kitchen radio sound - just buy a $5 kitchen radio 😂
I started mixing on NS-10's in 1986 and moved on from them to Genelecs for a few decades ...I decided to quit swimming against the tide and jump "in the box" in 2020; (selling my board, monitors and most of my studio gear)... during that process; Jordan's videos inspired me to go back to NS-10's and streamline my plugins ...there is wisdom in his ability to cut through all the "hype" and give folks intelligent advice.... If you develop your ear on NS-10s, (or CLA's Avatones) , you will save yourself a lot of time learning to translate a mix...
What setting did you finally have the “tissue paper” control at on the cla-10’s? On mine they’re currently maxed out. Gives me every detail from 2k up. But it’s hard to imagine the original ns-10’s sound like this lol.
I also own the cla10a’s and reached out to avantone and this is the message they sent me in regards to the VTPC settings: There is actually no standard levels for vintage ns10s as they have aged to vary by about +/- =2dB in tweeter level over time which means you can have 2 units over time that are as much as 4dB different. That being said 3 o clock is roughly an average horizontal unit and at full is roughly a vertical unit
i use slate VSX since come out...the emulation of NRG studios near field which are the ns10 are fantastic and my mixes translate 95% perfectly in every place... i think is the most amazing tool in my studio... never use again my real yahama for mixing since vsx come out! REALLY AMAZING!
Similarly I’ve used the Waves CLA NX mix room plugin. It has NS10s, his custom Ocean Way built-ins, and a shitty Sony boombox for referencing. It’s a MONSTER CPU HOG, but it’s good for a quick reference to fix mix issues early on.
Great video! Mike Senior with SOS talked in depth about the waterfall plot of the NS10s. The way the certain frequencies dont hang around and cloud the spectrum is truly awesome how Yamaha got there!
Hey, great Video! I'm new to mixing and bought after long observation the HS7's because I thought of them kind of a successor to the NS10's. I hate and love them, because they're so loud in the midrange and are not pleasant to listen to. I first had the HS5 and KRK G4 in comparison. And it's true. I made better mixes on the HS5's, why I bought the HS7's. And I slowly get into the HS7 and they translate my mixes very well as I find, because I experienced the same what you've just shared. I also was thinking about gettin the HS8s, because it's said they're more pleasant to listen to and produce better bass. But after seeing your video now, I think that option is out. Now Im curious about those Avantones. How would you say are they different from the HS7s? Thanks
Thanks for finally explaining why these are in every studio yet,when I ask the engineers to let me hear a mix through them, they were always less than enthusiastic, even refusing to do it
These are still valid in today's world for mixing. Your translation will be cleaner and more balanced. I use a second pair of monitors for mastering which helps me check the low end information and super highs, but that is for the last 5-10%!
@HardcoreMusicStudio Thank you for the video. I also struggling a longer time to get the LA10 but I’m not quite sure it isn’t better to buy a pair and the amp and not the 10A Version because ns10 wasn’t passive at all. Any thoughts about this ?
Back in 1990 I have also started with pair of a brand new NS-10M speakers and an Yamaha A-100 amplifier. They sounded very harsh so I sold them after five years of using them. Niether of my mix sounded good. To much bass, or very midrange sounding tracks. They lied to me, so I could not figure out what was wrong in my mix. So I do some research and find out that are other professional monitors that fit my expectation. I have better results with Dynadio and one Auratone speakers. I am glad to hear that you are pleased with them. Keep on!
You're absolutely right, though to me there is a much better, much cheaper and much more pleasant alternative; the Sennheiser HD 650 headphones. Not much subs, not much high highs, but an extremely true frequency range from 100Hz to 10kHz (people claim there is a bump at 2k but actually it's pretty minimal and wide, nothing compared to NS10s) + very radical, yet truthful stereo imaging. These are the first headphones I felt comfortable with my mixing choices when I checked them on my speakers and actually there was almost no learning curve, I could work with them well since day 1, also best translating mixes I ever had and with quite dense material. Nowadays I do most of my mixing process with them and then use my speakers mostly for high and low end control. NS10s are a reminder that you can mix hit records even with bad, consumer-grade bookshelf speakers (because that's what they were actually made as/for), it doesn't mean that you have to buy these specific speakers, especially when they are not priced as bad, consumer-grade bookshelf speakers anymore. Personal opinion.
It works at some degree, I tried that trick and compared it with the CLA-10. However, even with the filters on the speakers or headphones, they have a different frequency response, and it does not sound the same. That's the reason why Colt has the CLA-10's and the Auratones.
Still in love with my HS5's. Perfect for my room-space and what's more - I got used to listening to music with those - not for mixing but just for fun. And I'm pretty happy. Maybe when the time comes to try new ones, I'll try those you're recommending here. Nice video, though.
HS-5's are WAY closer to the NS-10's frequency range, than any of the other speakers in the Yamaha series. You can find grafts and measurements online. 😊
Used to have some of those. No thanks. Instead of using inaccurate monitors to trick you into getting good mixes, train your ear-mind to get good mixes on good speakers. Also, you could do the same thing by simply using an EQ contour on the Master bus to emphasize the mid range.
can you answer a question for me please.. the yamaha hs5 are quite mid heavy.. yes you hear the details but if you mix the midrange on them arn't you hearing a false midrange through the speakers because they are hyped.. if your mix lacks midrange, wont a mid heavy monitor make that mix sound better even without eq etc.. its been bothering me this one :) Thanks
Well, you hit the nail perfectly. I was mixing some years with Neumann KH310 and a KH750. An they sound great! But I completely lost the focus to the midrange and my mixes gone bad. Since I got the CLA and only change to the Neumanns for a short time to control the low end everything changed. My mixes got a lot more transparency and the low end is in nerly perfekt balanced. Great!!! I often read from people who think, the NS10/CLA are to old for modern music because they can't face all frequencies or whatever. About this I have to smile a little and think, "ok, they just need some years..." 😊. Ok, you need a secound pare of monitor for full range listening, but when you make music in a serious way, you have to do some investment. That's for sure. I can't say enough about the need of a pare of NS10 in a studio. And I make music since 30 years! But I have one question. You saied you matched the high end of the CLA with the CLA... Which is the right position of the VTP? At the moment I use IT at about 11 o clock. Thanks in forward
I'm considering getting some Neumann KH 80 as an upgrade from my Focal Alpha 65's. The Neumanns seem to be the best in the price range, especially with the mic and room correction. My room is treated but far from perfect and I figured the Neumanns would give me exactly what I'm looking for in mix translation. However, the CLA-10's are tempting as well. I'm a bit tempted because I hear how well mixes translate on them, however, I will still have the problems with my room that the Neumann's can help with. Did you use the room correction with your Neumann's? What are your thoughts on this? I can get the Neumanns with the mic and room correction for the same price as active CLA-10's.
@@FvtvreClvbroom correction doesn't completely solve the problems with the room acoustics. It only alleviates them to some extent. The key is to have the best adaptation in the first place.
The NS-10s sound very coloured as a result of nasty peaks in the midrange (ringing and stored energy). In order to get anything resembling a natural response out of the NS-10s your "mixes" will sound sucked out in the midrange on accurate speakers. You're just going along with the crowd which is not a good reason.
It sounds like in your justification it was more a problem with your process than the speakers. I've played with NS10s a few times but they are fundamentally terrible speakers, and you cannot mix actual low end on them. Compared to my SCM50s (and most other actually accurate large form factor monitors) they are completely unworkable to make properly accurate choices about your mix.
if "Yamaha ns 10s" was in every studio that means it sold well because everyone wanted to buy it. I just wonder why Yamaha stopped producing them, maybe because everyone was buying them and they had to be in every studio? isn't that weird? did Yamaha stop producing NS10s because everyone wanted to buy them and have them in their studio or for some other reason?
you don’t need these. just get some good speakers and headphones. and learn how to mix. Those CLA’s sound completely different than the NS10s so what’s the point? There is no point it’s all snake oil
I've had my CLA-10As (active monitors) for a couple of years now and so far, everything I've played in a car that was mixed on these speakers sounded surprisingly good!!! I'm very impressed with how well the mixes translated. I can't say the same for my old M-Audio BX-8s. I've struggled with those to get mixes to translate because they scoop the midrange frequencies. Those speakers gave me a deceiving perception that my mixes sounded good. However, when I took the mixes and played them on a club PA, or even some car systems, the vocals and sometimes the bass sounded very muddy, which took me back to square one....trial and error re-tweaking. With that said, I feel much more confident in my midrange when mixing on the CLA-10A's along with my Yamaha MSP3's (as a second set of monitors) and a couple of subs (to check the sub bass and lowend). I'm actually planning on selling the BX-8s.
If I'm stuck with monitors that have more focus in the high end and low end, could I just roll off frequencies on my master bus to achieve a similar sound?
@Hardcore Music Studio where did you end up putting the stepped knob for VTPC? I’m considering getting CLA10As and wanted to get a good setting since I don’t have NS10s to A/B with, thanks!
My NS10m from the eighties we not only tissue papered the tweeters - they also were wired with a fuse. After paying for new tweeters a few times - the fuse saved us from then on. You pump too much in and the fuse would blow - 15 cents for a fuse, or a couple hundred dollars for new tweeters - Which of course were easy to find back then. Local Yamaha repair had them in stock all the time. I imagine that would be harder to find now. I absolutely agree with the mid analogy. We used to have the client speakers ( Big Tannoys ) that had that huge sound to them to impress clients. But the mixing was always done on the NS10s.
Thanks so much for the review! Really enjoy your videos. I've been eyeing these for a while. Curious, do you have a sub in your setup as well or do you check the sub 100hz on headphones or something like that, or maybe don't feel the need? Thanks again!
@@hardcoremusicstudio Interesting, may i ask what genres you mix ? How are you finding the low end translation when using headphones for the low end ? Thanks :)
If the entire advantage of these speakers is that they have a limited low and high end response, why couldn't you just use an equivalent high and low pass on your existing monitors?
These and the old Alesis Monitor Ones MK2 are the best for mixing and engineering sound. They're flat speakers. They don't color or alter the lows or highs and keeps the mids even as the sound comes in. That means what you hear from them is what you get. And with an accurate representation of the sound, you can mix much more accurately.
I have a pair of Avantone Mixcubes, could you mix let's say 90% of the time on them. And then just check low and high end on headphones or other monitors?
To update on this. I bought the cla 10sA after your review and really love them. I use to use ns10 in the studio I worked in but never had them my self. So the Focal Twins I did mixes on are just for listening back.
I don't doubt what he's saying because if it didn't work, then why would so many big studios be doing it? But just devil's advocate: If the primary advantage of NS-10s is that they don't distract you with frequencies below (roughly) 100hz or above 5K, couldn't you just mix on any other speaker (like the Yamaha HS80s) using a low pass and high pass filter to achieve the same thing?
Not even close. NS10s stop vibrating after sound leaves the cone, no other speaker comes close (unless you want to pay up), this is what sets them apart from other monitors. This video said nothing about that
Spectre Studios made a video of the same song mixed on HS7, LP-6 and KRK Rookit 6 and the mix made on HS7 was the best. Though, not necessarily the best translation for mono and phone speakers in that case
So, question… what’s the difference between getting some ns10s and putting a filter on your mixbus as you mix? The first studio I rented had NS10s. I sometimes miss them now so I often do the NS10 “trick” to focus on the midrange. Am I missing out on the magic of those crappy speaker cones, no joke here, or can you get by with filtering. Thanks for the vid! Exciting stuff.
Something to do with low frequency decay on ns10s. I don’t really understand how it works but there’s a soundonsound article about the monitors with graphs and charts if you’re curious. I have cla 10s as well as some presonus eris 5s with low shelf filters you can engage, but it isn’t anything thing close to the clas.
Something to do with low frequency decay on ns10s. I don’t really understand how it works but there’s a soundonsound article about the monitors with graphs and charts if you’re curious. I have cla 10s as well as some presonus eris 5s with low shelf filters you can engage, but it isn’t anything thing close to the clas.
@@kylerferrill8252 not far from the truth actually! The closed box design and stiff woofer makes the low frequency decay faster on ns10s... which means your messy room won't interfere much in the listening experience. You might filter some of the frequencies out, but the lower ones remaining will always decay slower on any other speaker than an ns10. Check that sos article, the waterfall graph speaks by itself! ( dt7v1i9vyp3mf.cloudfront.net/assetlibrary/n/ns10m.pdf )
For me the Auratones are best for checking the midrange because they don't have a tweeter and they're closed-box + that midrange is sounding very detailed so you can easily hear what needs to be fixed.
You can get the same effect with a band pass filter on the mix bus. The faster low frequency decay of NS10s helps for shitty rooms, but you can just reference with a good pair of headphones quickly if you wanna take the room out of the equation. And really you should treat your room! There’s nothing special about NS10s and you certainly don’t need them to make good mixes.
Sorry but using Yamaha NS10 have NEVER been a good idea. How the hell are you going to do good mixes when the only thing you are hearing is just bassless music with overly extreme hyped mids? There is so much older music that's most probably mixed and mastered on this that's just lacking in bass because they just cut it since they can't hear it anyways. And if you can't get a good midrange without having a pair of speakers that hypes it then maybe it's about your skills and not your gear.
So maybe a dumb question: But why not just shelf those high and low frequencies, below 100hz and above 10k with whatever monitors we have using an eq plugin at the end of the chain while mixing? Would that not achieve the same result at no cost? Or is there still something unique about those speakers?
I got the cheap NS-10M-t version, and they're actually not that bad. I've heard vintage NS-10s and the only real difference is the price. Some stuff in audio is truly a scam. Buy cheap
If you can here any bass in an NS10 you have too much bass. If you can here symbols or high hats they are too loud. This is the meaning of "flat." The old adage was: if you can make it sound good on an NS10 it will sound good anywhere. They said the same about the Atoms. Personally, working with reference tracks is key. The one thing NS 10's have is consistency: they always sound shite...unless,...you go to number 11. Then...then they sound great.
Interesting, I've had ns10m's for about 25 years and never saw the model you have here with the logo upright and the tiny ports. Now that I'm looking , it seems to be the popular model. Curious as to if they sound different than the sideways ones. I've always run an EQ and a sub with them.
Now lets set up a full-on NS10s Atmos studio!! no center, no LFE, just 6.0.4!!!! 😂😂😂😂 By the way, if you ever get the chance, can you compare the NS10 preset on Sonarworks and let us know what you think? I can't afford buying NS-10s to check my mixes, but I'm wondering if the SW NS-10s IR is any good!!
I find my Genelec M030s are very comparable to NS10s in terms of frequency response. What you say about midrange shouldn't be a huge revelation to me, but it's becoming one. Over the last several days, I've removed some of the "surgical cuts" i've done just out of habit on bass, guitars, and vocals... and suddenly my mixes are translating. So maybe I don't even need to go for the CLA 10s since my M030s are pretty much in the same ballpark. Thank you for giving me something to think about. Like you, I also use headphones to check low end. Because my room is so small, i can't really crank the M030s too much so i have to keep them in a tight triangle so that I can hear the detail. It "shrinks" the image, but I can hear the entire stereo field. Honestly, if I didn't feel like I was turning a major corner here in the best way, I'd probably look into your Pro Mixing course... because I didn't know where else to turn. I have 202 .ptx Pro Tools session files (!!) of a song i've been trying to finish mixing for 2 months. Finally... another video of yours (and one by Warren Huart) got me thinking the right way about midrange. This video seems like a re-enforcement of that idea. Thanks again.
Surgical cuts on a bass?? I've met many bass tracks that rather needed boosts than cuts, and the perfect basses just needed leaving them flat.... Well, sometimes have to be darken, cutting presence, trebles but very rare occasions (piezo f.e.)
If you make it sound good on the NS10, it will sound good almost everywhere. Should you not be able to mix on the NS10, then you do not need to buy speakers such as Barefoot, Focal or Genelec, because then you are not good at mixing. You just think it will be better with more expensive speakers.
NS10's has all to do with 'ear-training'. Focus on the midrange, it's the most important thing in the song. Most kids only focus on the sub and everything above 10KHz, it's not that important, a tight midrange makes the listener happy.
The NS10 are one of the worst Studio Monitors . the only reason they are famous is because they were the only constistent avaliability back in the the day across the world like L Acoustics in PA Stuff These days. All „big“ Engineers are checked there mixes Always on high End Stuff. And if you are used to it for decades you can work with it because you know the „differences“. But These days if you Start it is just marketing bullshit.
Im new to mixing but have starte investing in gear and plugins past stock and a pair of tannoy cheap 70 dollar monitors. i picked up the yamaha Hs8 for black Friday but ive just discovered the Ns10/cla10 after spotting them in a couple videos. What is the main diff between the Hs8 and Ns10, which do you recommend for an acoustically treated room, and should i return the Hs8 and pickup the Cla10 for a Christmas deal? Thank you so much appreciate any responses & feedback - Johnny
Now i don't wanna pee in the soup, but would a simple EQ on the master bus not give a similar result, in the same ballpark? I think they are great but for home studio people who don't have the space or the money to just hear mids basically... Not that I don't trust em, but you know
Anyone using the Avantone CLA-200 amp with these...or any monitors? I was looking for some feedback. I'm not into recording or mixing tracks, just home audio. I read a little about that engineer Chris that had a hand in developing these Yamaha clones. He does like to work around the midrange..he boosts his highs and lows and sets them to where they are almost intolerable. Then pulls them back, compresses them around the mids and vocals using tons of presets along the way. Didn't seem like he puts a lot of focus into the small details, more like broad strokes around a nice good midrange sound. A lot of compression on the book ends of the bandwidth I guess is how I'd describe it. But like I said, I know absolutely nothing about mixing lol, it just seemed like he takes a simple approach to it, although it all seems confusing to me in the grand scheme. But anyway..anyone hear or try those new CLA amps? Good luck and good mixing guys
I'm a beginner and have been researching extensively ..and as i was realising the importance of midrange and which monitor to buy , then you posted this vid , .are hs versions similar ?
The tissue paper control on the CLA-10 mimicks producer/mixer Bob Clearmountain's handling of the bright highend of the NS10's. He simply put paper in front of the treble speaker in order to lower the highend.
I watched a video called “the magic is in the mids”. I’ve used the technique of putting pass filters from 200 hz to 4K and just mix everything with the filters active. It’s amazing just how amazing everything sounds afterwards. The extreme lows and highs don’t have a chance to bestow their lies to my ears.
Did Colt also use 200 hz to 4k in his video?
I do the same on my mastertrack. Add a mono switch! It's THE game changer for your mix balance!!
@@sweetfoampunishment3286 Are you just saying that you reference in mono here, or...?
No kidding -So, you're saying you could just put the high pass and low pass on any old speaker instead of buying NS10's?? By "amazing how amazing things sound afterwards" are you talking about how things translate or how things sound once you take the filters off? Thanks.
I started doing the exact same thing and my mixes are 1000x times better! But I have no idea the reason why!
What do you have your VTPC knobs set to?
I have a question, do you mix a full mix on the CLA 10? Is it also possible to mix 100% of the music on the similar-sounding Auratone 5c?
Yeah the classics NS-10 to allegedly "simulate the kitchen radio sound" for proofing purposes, but honestly - if you wanna -fake- simulate a kitchen radio sound - just buy a $5 kitchen radio 😂
Hi Jordan from Italy ! What setting did you used on the VTPC to match your NS10 ? :)
How do you set the VTPC to mimic your original ns10’s?
Why not put a low cut and high cut on the master while mixing? wouldn't that be the equivalent of these speakers?
Over a £1000! U can get used ns10's for half the price, for basically the same sound.... No thank you
I started mixing on NS-10's in 1986 and moved on from them to Genelecs for a few decades ...I decided to quit swimming against the tide and jump "in the box" in 2020; (selling my board, monitors and most of my studio gear)... during that process; Jordan's videos inspired me to go back to NS-10's and streamline my plugins ...there is wisdom in his ability to cut through all the "hype" and give folks intelligent advice.... If you develop your ear on NS-10s, (or CLA's Avatones) , you will save yourself a lot of time learning to translate a mix...
I agree, personally i'd highly recommend getting the NS-10m STUDIO version, not the non-studio version.
Nice in-depth review. Out of interest, what did you end up setting the Tissue Paper control to on the CLA-10's?
You can get the originals for less than the clone. - Nobrainer. Make sure to get the NS10M STUDIO version, not the non-STUDIO
Have you calibrated the CLA 10 with sonaworks?
What setting did you finally have the “tissue paper” control at on the cla-10’s? On mine they’re currently maxed out. Gives me every detail from 2k up. But it’s hard to imagine the original ns-10’s sound like this lol.
I also own the cla10a’s and reached out to avantone and this is the message they sent me in regards to the VTPC settings:
There is actually no standard levels for vintage ns10s as they have aged to vary by about +/- =2dB in tweeter level over time which means you can have 2 units over time that are as much as 4dB different. That being said 3 o clock is roughly an average horizontal unit and at full is roughly a vertical unit
@@nine27 Thank you!
@@elonthebass6870 bet
i use slate VSX since come out...the emulation of NRG studios near field which are the ns10 are fantastic and my mixes translate 95% perfectly in every place... i think is the most amazing tool in my studio... never use again my real yahama for mixing since vsx come out! REALLY AMAZING!
I just got my Slate VSX headphones and they are amazing.
Definitely done my best mixes with VSX.
That's really compelling, I've been having my eye on those for some time now.
I also exclusively mix on VSX now. I can mix absolutely anywhere too and that’s awesome.
Similarly I’ve used the Waves CLA NX mix room plugin. It has NS10s, his custom Ocean Way built-ins, and a shitty Sony boombox for referencing. It’s a MONSTER CPU HOG, but it’s good for a quick reference to fix mix issues early on.
Aren't the NS 10 designed with the Fletcher Munson curve flipped? So you mix the mids right. I've found a page on the net of a guy who found this out.
Thanks for the video, much appreciated. Is there a recommended amp to power the passive version of the CLA-10?
Great video! Mike Senior with SOS talked in depth about the waterfall plot of the NS10s. The way the certain frequencies dont hang around and cloud the spectrum is truly awesome how Yamaha got there!
It's closed box instead of bass reflex that's why it has a quicker decay in the lows
What power amp are you using?
I’m curious what your VPTC setting was? I have mine halfway at the moment.
Hey, great Video! I'm new to mixing and bought after long observation the HS7's because I thought of them kind of a successor to the NS10's.
I hate and love them, because they're so loud in the midrange and are not pleasant to listen to. I first had the HS5 and KRK G4 in comparison. And it's true. I made better mixes on the HS5's, why I bought the HS7's. And I slowly get into the HS7 and they translate my mixes very well as I find, because I experienced the same what you've just shared.
I also was thinking about gettin the HS8s, because it's said they're more pleasant to listen to and produce better bass. But after seeing your video now, I think that option is out.
Now Im curious about those Avantones. How would you say are they different from the HS7s?
Thanks
Thanks for finally explaining why these are in every studio yet,when I ask the engineers to let me hear a mix through them, they were always less than enthusiastic, even refusing to do it
Super great for making sure bass guitar can be heard on systems without a low end.
These are still valid in today's world for mixing. Your translation will be cleaner and more balanced. I use a second pair of monitors for mastering which helps me check the low end information and super highs, but that is for the last 5-10%!
I would like to see your opinion about avantone mixcubes, because you have experience with ns10s...
Just got a pair of 1990's NS-10MX from Japan. They are awesome. Contrary to what is said they don't sound like crap, they sound REAL.
Should i buy Auratone 5c reissue...or Cla 10 ??Heard very very good thing about the Auratones also,that they translate super good ?!
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What position on the VTPC knob have you found is best to turn it to for the most similar response as the ns-10?
@HardcoreMusicStudio Thank you for the video. I also struggling a longer time to get the LA10 but I’m not quite sure it isn’t better to buy a pair and the amp and not the 10A Version because ns10 wasn’t passive at all. Any thoughts about this ?
Back in 1990 I have also started with pair of a brand new NS-10M speakers and an Yamaha A-100 amplifier. They sounded very harsh so I sold them after five years of using them. Niether of my mix sounded good. To much bass, or very midrange sounding tracks. They lied to me, so I could not figure out what was wrong in my mix. So I do some research and find out that are other professional monitors that fit my expectation.
I have better results with Dynadio and one Auratone speakers. I am glad to hear that you are pleased with them. Keep on!
LMAO it's 2024 so many better options than NS10s
You're absolutely right, though to me there is a much better, much cheaper and much more pleasant alternative; the Sennheiser HD 650 headphones.
Not much subs, not much high highs, but an extremely true frequency range from 100Hz to 10kHz (people claim there is a bump at 2k but actually it's pretty minimal and wide, nothing compared to NS10s) + very radical, yet truthful stereo imaging.
These are the first headphones I felt comfortable with my mixing choices when I checked them on my speakers and actually there was almost no learning curve, I could work with them well since day 1, also best translating mixes I ever had and with quite dense material.
Nowadays I do most of my mixing process with them and then use my speakers mostly for high and low end control.
NS10s are a reminder that you can mix hit records even with bad, consumer-grade bookshelf speakers (because that's what they were actually made as/for), it doesn't mean that you have to buy these specific speakers, especially when they are not priced as bad, consumer-grade bookshelf speakers anymore.
Personal opinion.
Really good review. Thanks but I'll stick to my Presonus Eris E8 because I am happy with my high mix quality & translation 👍
The question is who’s mixes sounds better
It works at some degree, I tried that trick and compared it with the CLA-10. However, even with the filters on the speakers or headphones, they have a different frequency response, and it does not sound the same. That's the reason why Colt has the CLA-10's and the Auratones.
No don't buy them. If you are mixing 90s music yes but they don't apply to current fidelity requirements.
Still in love with my HS5's. Perfect for my room-space and what's more - I got used to listening to music with those - not for mixing but just for fun. And I'm pretty happy. Maybe when the time comes to try new ones, I'll try those you're recommending here. Nice video, though.
HS-5's are WAY closer to the NS-10's frequency range, than any of the other speakers in the Yamaha series. You can find grafts and measurements online. 😊
Yh but they don't sound anything alike
Used to have some of those. No thanks. Instead of using inaccurate monitors to trick you into getting good mixes, train your ear-mind to get good mixes on good speakers. Also, you could do the same thing by simply using an EQ contour on the Master bus to emphasize the mid range.
can you answer a question for me please.. the yamaha hs5 are quite mid heavy.. yes you hear the details but if you mix the midrange on them arn't you hearing a false midrange through the speakers because they are hyped.. if your mix lacks midrange, wont a mid heavy monitor make that mix sound better even without eq etc.. its been bothering me this one :) Thanks
Well, you hit the nail perfectly. I was mixing some years with Neumann KH310 and a KH750. An they sound great! But I completely lost the focus to the midrange and my mixes gone bad. Since I got the CLA and only change to the Neumanns for a short time to control the low end everything changed. My mixes got a lot more transparency and the low end is in nerly perfekt balanced. Great!!! I often read from people who think, the NS10/CLA are to old for modern music because they can't face all frequencies or whatever. About this I have to smile a little and think, "ok, they just need some years..." 😊. Ok, you need a secound pare of monitor for full range listening, but when you make music in a serious way, you have to do some investment. That's for sure. I can't say enough about the need of a pare of NS10 in a studio. And I make music since 30 years!
But I have one question. You saied you matched the high end of the CLA with the CLA... Which is the right position of the VTP? At the moment I use IT at about 11 o clock. Thanks in forward
I'm considering getting some Neumann KH 80 as an upgrade from my Focal Alpha 65's. The Neumanns seem to be the best in the price range, especially with the mic and room correction. My room is treated but far from perfect and I figured the Neumanns would give me exactly what I'm looking for in mix translation. However, the CLA-10's are tempting as well. I'm a bit tempted because I hear how well mixes translate on them, however, I will still have the problems with my room that the Neumann's can help with. Did you use the room correction with your Neumann's? What are your thoughts on this? I can get the Neumanns with the mic and room correction for the same price as active CLA-10's.
@@FvtvreClvbroom correction doesn't completely solve the problems with the room acoustics. It only alleviates them to some extent. The key is to have the best adaptation in the first place.
The NS-10s sound very coloured as a result of nasty peaks in the midrange (ringing and stored energy). In order to get anything resembling a natural response out of the NS-10s your "mixes" will sound sucked out in the midrange on accurate speakers. You're just going along with the crowd which is not a good reason.
What type of amplifier should I use with NS10s? That ain’t to expensive
It sounds like in your justification it was more a problem with your process than the speakers. I've played with NS10s a few times but they are fundamentally terrible speakers, and you cannot mix actual low end on them. Compared to my SCM50s (and most other actually accurate large form factor monitors) they are completely unworkable to make properly accurate choices about your mix.
if "Yamaha ns 10s" was in every studio
that means it sold well because everyone wanted to buy it. I just wonder why Yamaha stopped producing them, maybe because everyone was buying them and they had to be in every studio?
isn't that weird?
did Yamaha stop producing NS10s because everyone wanted to buy them and have them in their studio or for some other reason?
you don’t need these. just get some good speakers and headphones. and learn how to mix.
Those CLA’s sound completely different than the NS10s so what’s the point? There is no point it’s all snake oil
I've had my CLA-10As (active monitors) for a couple of years now and so far, everything I've played in a car that was mixed on these speakers sounded surprisingly good!!! I'm very impressed with how well the mixes translated.
I can't say the same for my old M-Audio BX-8s. I've struggled with those to get mixes to translate because they scoop the midrange frequencies. Those speakers gave me a deceiving perception that my mixes sounded good. However, when I took the mixes and played them on a club PA, or even some car systems, the vocals and sometimes the bass sounded very muddy, which took me back to square one....trial and error re-tweaking. With that said, I feel much more confident in my midrange when mixing on the CLA-10A's along with my Yamaha MSP3's (as a second set of monitors) and a couple of subs (to check the sub bass and lowend). I'm actually planning on selling the BX-8s.
If I'm stuck with monitors that have more focus in the high end and low end, could I just roll off frequencies on my master bus to achieve a similar sound?
why are they called NA -10? because you can listen to music on them for a maximum of 10 minutes
Warning : CLA NEVER MIX WTHOUT A SUB WOTH HIS NS10
Thanks Jordan, as always, very helpful...reminded me of a Colt Capperune vid called 'Magic Is In The Midrange'...confirmation!
@Hardcore Music Studio where did you end up putting the stepped knob for VTPC? I’m considering getting CLA10As and wanted to get a good setting since I don’t have NS10s to A/B with, thanks!
My NS10m from the eighties we not only tissue papered the tweeters - they also were wired with a fuse. After paying for new tweeters a few times - the fuse saved us from then on. You pump too much in and the fuse would blow - 15 cents for a fuse, or a couple hundred dollars for new tweeters - Which of course were easy to find back then. Local Yamaha repair had them in stock all the time. I imagine that would be harder to find now.
I absolutely agree with the mid analogy. We used to have the client speakers ( Big Tannoys ) that had that huge sound to them to impress clients. But the mixing was always done on the NS10s.
Tissue papered introducing comb filtering too 😅
I recently got the Eris 3.5's I was using Hifi speakers( it's all I had) but after getting the nearfield monitors my mixes got so much better.
i've been thinking about getting the Eris 3's...
Thanks so much for the review! Really enjoy your videos. I've been eyeing these for a while. Curious, do you have a sub in your setup as well or do you check the sub 100hz on headphones or something like that, or maybe don't feel the need? Thanks again!
No sub - yes i check sub lows on headphones
@@hardcoremusicstudio Interesting, may i ask what genres you mix ? How are you finding the low end translation when using headphones for the low end ? Thanks :)
Great advice but what's your opinion on the "mud" frequencies, do you cut and if so how much???
Why can’t you just EQ your speakers to sound like these?
What are the advantages of these vs Auratone 5c Mixcubes?
What's your settings for the vtpc on the cla10a ?
Hi Jordan pretty nice and good video ! Can I ask you what setting exactly did you ended up using on the VTPC to match the NS10 ??
would love an update on how they are treating you
If the entire advantage of these speakers is that they have a limited low and high end response, why couldn't you just use an equivalent high and low pass on your existing monitors?
These and the old Alesis Monitor Ones MK2 are the best for mixing and engineering sound.
They're flat speakers. They don't color or alter the lows or highs and keeps the mids even as the sound comes in.
That means what you hear from them is what you get. And with an accurate representation of the sound, you can mix much more accurately.
I have a pair of Avantone Mixcubes, could you mix let's say 90% of the time on them. And then just check low and high end on headphones or other monitors?
Yor oints are valid, but why not make a preset with a HPF and LPF and apply it to your other speakers?
The ns 10s don't have a bass port. That's why they have more accurate bass response. Most monitors have bass extended through a resonance port.
To update on this. I bought the cla 10sA after your review and really love them. I use to use ns10 in the studio I worked in but never had them my self. So the Focal Twins I did mixes on are just for listening back.
@@michalgil4151which Focal Twins exactly?
"The Yamaha NS10 was an accidental inverse of the ISO 226 equal-loudness contours curves and the Fletcher Munson curves" --from the web
What does this mean exactly? Thanks
I think you should compare CLA-10 against NS-10M STUDIO, not NS-10M ... Personally i LOVE the NS-10M STUDIO but i really dislike NS-10M non-STUDIO.
And in the beginning there were regular NS-10 (non-M), and not Studio. So there were three variants? Not even speaking about the smaller variant.
I don't doubt what he's saying because if it didn't work, then why would so many big studios be doing it? But just devil's advocate: If the primary advantage of NS-10s is that they don't distract you with frequencies below (roughly) 100hz or above 5K, couldn't you just mix on any other speaker (like the Yamaha HS80s) using a low pass and high pass filter to achieve the same thing?
Not even close. NS10s stop vibrating after sound leaves the cone, no other speaker comes close (unless you want to pay up), this is what sets them apart from other monitors. This video said nothing about that
@@nofood1could you elaborate a little bit more on this finding? Thanks
I have a pair of HS7's. I've only ever mixed at home so I've nothing to compare them to. My room is tiny though, less than 10ft x 10 ft.
Spectre Studios made a video of the same song mixed on HS7, LP-6 and KRK Rookit 6 and the mix made on HS7 was the best. Though, not necessarily the best translation for mono and phone speakers in that case
They sound horrible. Love them 🙌
That’s why I love 4” speakers to mix on… then check the Vibe (his and Lows/subs) on some mains (2.1 system)
Where did you end up leaving the that tissue knob on the back of the speaker ?
What settings did you end up with to have a similar vibe for the new cla 10s to match
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORr you ca use an eq 👌
So, question… what’s the difference between getting some ns10s and putting a filter on your mixbus as you mix? The first studio I rented had NS10s. I sometimes miss them now so I often do the NS10 “trick” to focus on the midrange. Am I missing out on the magic of those crappy speaker cones, no joke here, or can you get by with filtering. Thanks for the vid! Exciting stuff.
Something to do with low frequency decay on ns10s. I don’t really understand how it works but there’s a soundonsound article about the monitors with graphs and charts if you’re curious. I have cla 10s as well as some presonus eris 5s with low shelf filters you can engage, but it isn’t anything thing close to the clas.
Something to do with low frequency decay on ns10s. I don’t really understand how it works but there’s a soundonsound article about the monitors with graphs and charts if you’re curious. I have cla 10s as well as some presonus eris 5s with low shelf filters you can engage, but it isn’t anything thing close to the clas.
@@kylerferrill8252 not far from the truth actually! The closed box design and stiff woofer makes the low frequency decay faster on ns10s... which means your messy room won't interfere much in the listening experience. You might filter some of the frequencies out, but the lower ones remaining will always decay slower on any other speaker than an ns10.
Check that sos article, the waterfall graph speaks by itself! ( dt7v1i9vyp3mf.cloudfront.net/assetlibrary/n/ns10m.pdf )
For me the Auratones are best for checking the midrange because they don't have a tweeter and they're closed-box + that midrange is sounding very detailed so you can easily hear what needs to be fixed.
You can get the same effect with a band pass filter on the mix bus. The faster low frequency decay of NS10s helps for shitty rooms, but you can just reference with a good pair of headphones quickly if you wanna take the room out of the equation. And really you should treat your room! There’s nothing special about NS10s and you certainly don’t need them to make good mixes.
Informative video - thanks! You're well spoken and very listenable - a rarity for YT in my experience.
Great video! One question: what amp do you recommend to use with the CLA/NS ?
avantone is gaining a phenomenal reputation...
Sorry but using Yamaha NS10 have NEVER been a good idea. How the hell are you going to do good mixes when the only thing you are hearing is just bassless music with overly extreme hyped mids? There is so much older music that's most probably mixed and mastered on this that's just lacking in bass because they just cut it since they can't hear it anyways. And if you can't get a good midrange without having a pair of speakers that hypes it then maybe it's about your skills and not your gear.
So maybe a dumb question: But why not just shelf those high and low frequencies, below 100hz and above 10k with whatever monitors we have using an eq plugin at the end of the chain while mixing? Would that not achieve the same result at no cost? Or is there still something unique about those speakers?
The best speaker
I got the cheap NS-10M-t version, and they're actually not that bad.
I've heard vintage NS-10s and the only real difference is the price.
Some stuff in audio is truly a scam. Buy cheap
I have the NS 144 with the tweeter control. Love them.
Please make a detailed video on Avanton Gauss 7 with sound comparison..... Thank you🙏
If you can here any bass in an NS10 you have too much bass. If you can here symbols or high hats they are too loud. This is the meaning of "flat." The old adage was: if you can make it sound good on an NS10 it will sound good anywhere. They said the same about the Atoms. Personally, working with reference tracks is key. The one thing NS 10's have is consistency: they always sound shite...unless,...you go to number 11. Then...then they sound great.
Terrible speakers. Not made for modern music. They were ok in the 80-90s but they don't represent modern fidelity.
Its mind-blowing: to see all these monster studios with million dollar equipment, and all this outboard gear, only to mix it on some NS 10's.
Interesting, I've had ns10m's for about 25 years and never saw the model you have here with the logo upright and the tiny ports. Now that I'm looking , it seems to be the popular model. Curious as to if they sound different than the sideways ones.
I've always run an EQ and a sub with them.
If these are Fine… Then what is the Point of a high end $4k-8k system. Only making Stereo Music?
Now lets set up a full-on NS10s Atmos studio!! no center, no LFE, just 6.0.4!!!! 😂😂😂😂
By the way, if you ever get the chance, can you compare the NS10 preset on Sonarworks and let us know what you think? I can't afford buying NS-10s to check my mixes, but I'm wondering if the SW NS-10s IR is any good!!
I find my Genelec M030s are very comparable to NS10s in terms of frequency response. What you say about midrange shouldn't be a huge revelation to me, but it's becoming one. Over the last several days, I've removed some of the "surgical cuts" i've done just out of habit on bass, guitars, and vocals... and suddenly my mixes are translating. So maybe I don't even need to go for the CLA 10s since my M030s are pretty much in the same ballpark. Thank you for giving me something to think about. Like you, I also use headphones to check low end. Because my room is so small, i can't really crank the M030s too much so i have to keep them in a tight triangle so that I can hear the detail. It "shrinks" the image, but I can hear the entire stereo field.
Honestly, if I didn't feel like I was turning a major corner here in the best way, I'd probably look into your Pro Mixing course... because I didn't know where else to turn. I have 202 .ptx Pro Tools session files (!!) of a song i've been trying to finish mixing for 2 months. Finally... another video of yours (and one by Warren Huart) got me thinking the right way about midrange. This video seems like a re-enforcement of that idea. Thanks again.
Surgical cuts on a bass?? I've met many bass tracks that rather needed boosts than cuts, and the perfect basses just needed leaving them flat....
Well, sometimes have to be darken, cutting presence, trebles but very rare occasions (piezo f.e.)
If you make it sound good on the NS10, it will sound good almost everywhere.
Should you not be able to mix on the NS10, then you do not need to buy speakers such as Barefoot, Focal or Genelec, because then you are not good at mixing. You just think it will be better with more expensive speakers.
NS10's has all to do with 'ear-training'. Focus on the midrange, it's the most important thing in the song. Most kids only focus on the sub and everything above 10KHz, it's not that important, a tight midrange makes the listener happy.
I've compared both side-by-side, and found them to be interchangeable as well. 👍🏻
Which ones, NS-10m or NS-10m STUDIO against CLA-10? There is quite a difference between STUDIO vs. non-STUDIO NS-10's.
The NS10 are one of the worst Studio Monitors . the only reason they are famous is because they were the only constistent avaliability back in the the day across the world like L Acoustics in PA Stuff These days. All „big“ Engineers are checked there mixes Always on high End Stuff. And if you are used to it for decades you can work with it because you know the „differences“. But These days if you Start it is just marketing bullshit.
its actually i can mix music on any set of speaker.. and i will make it sound good on any device any platform any module out there you name it 😎
Im new to mixing but have starte investing in gear and plugins past stock and a pair of tannoy cheap 70 dollar monitors. i picked up the yamaha Hs8 for black Friday but ive just discovered the Ns10/cla10 after spotting them in a couple videos. What is the main diff between the Hs8 and Ns10, which do you recommend for an acoustically treated room, and should i return the Hs8 and pickup the Cla10 for a Christmas deal? Thank you so much appreciate any responses & feedback - Johnny
Now i don't wanna pee in the soup, but would a simple EQ on the master bus not give a similar result, in the same ballpark? I think they are great but for home studio people who don't have the space or the money to just hear mids basically... Not that I don't trust em, but you know
Anyone using the Avantone CLA-200 amp with these...or any monitors? I was looking for some feedback. I'm not into recording or mixing tracks, just home audio. I read a little about that engineer Chris that had a hand in developing these Yamaha clones. He does like to work around the midrange..he boosts his highs and lows and sets them to where they are almost intolerable. Then pulls them back, compresses them around the mids and vocals using tons of presets along the way. Didn't seem like he puts a lot of focus into the small details, more like broad strokes around a nice good midrange sound. A lot of compression on the book ends of the bandwidth I guess is how I'd describe it. But like I said, I know absolutely nothing about mixing lol, it just seemed like he takes a simple approach to it, although it all seems confusing to me in the grand scheme. But anyway..anyone hear or try those new CLA amps? Good luck and good mixing guys
No, you shouldn't . Never listen to yutuber saying "you should" in the audio world.
good advice, straight ahead, no excess just good info. thank you
I'm a beginner and have been researching extensively ..and as i was realising the importance of midrange and which monitor to buy , then you posted this vid , .are hs versions similar ?
The tissue paper control on the CLA-10 mimicks producer/mixer Bob Clearmountain's handling of the bright highend of the NS10's. He simply put paper in front of the treble speaker in order to lower the highend.