Unnown Missing is so tragic actually. Because it had all the tools it needed. There were a LOT of ways to get your opponents Supporters into the Lost Zone. But you would almost never find deck that runs more than 10 supporters. And you sure as heck won't in Expanded
ironically, if anything unown hand is better than ever now, as you will find a couple decks here and there that try fill the lost zone with prism star cards, some of which are supporters still unplayable, but now you can win 1% of the time instead of 0%
I find it interesting how different the philosophies of TPC and Konami are. "Unknown Damage isn't doing much but it will be problematic in the long run, and we don't want people winning in the first turn, so we are banning it" vs "This card is making FTKs a bit too easy, but it's making money, so get bent, enjoy the format, cash pigs"
It's a bit different ever since they made standard the main tournament format and stopped supporting Expanded at tournaments. Expanded format is mainly just played online nowadays. We still get cards that dominate the standard format that TPCi won't ban because they make money like ADP. In fact no cards are currently banned in standard, usually they just stay problematic until they rotate out.
@@HopUpOutDaBed Didn't they ban Mismagius and Belleba & Brycen Man from standard for literally no reason whatsoever? Also ADP wasn't really the problem(tho it did make it even worse), the problem was 3-prize Pokémon as a whole being toxic.
@@icantthinkofaname4723 they've made a few bans from standard occasionally but currently none are banned. The point stands they've never banned a big money making EX/GX/V/Multiprize card A lot of competitive players were wanting ADP banned, and I remember formats with worse offenders that were never banned.
@@icantthinkofaname4723 mismagius was banned purely because reset stamp and chip-chip ice axe were legal for belleba and brycen man, the excuse was to prevent mill strats but really it was because it was a hard counter to eternatus, which was the star child of ptcgi at that moment
@@HopUpOutDaBed Well technically, Shaymin-EX is banned. Unless you mean they've never banned a high rarity card in Standard, but like...they've only banned a total of 3 cards from Standard ever.
The moment I saw all the cards that had some kind of impact on the opponent or could be used to stall, made me irrationally angry. Also, really happy, because I never had to deal with a deck that literally says no to me. Even if I made one in MTG.
When I was getting back into modern yugioh with your top 10s, I quickly became familiar with the meta or "problem" cards based on which ones kept appearing consistently on lists. Knowing nothing about pokemon, I feel like I'm starting to learn in the same way based on seeing cards that keep coming up in these videos
Because some of the old lost zone cards can ruin new lost zone decks. Like the stadium that lets you win the game if the opponent has 6 pokemon in the lost zone.
@@mrcombustiblelemon2902 Are any of the other HGSS lost zone cards banned? Can't remember what they called said format as this goes far beyond the current expanded format
they... aren't there is literally no lost zone card banned, it's just set rotations, you can still use the sun and moon era lost zone cards in expanded alongisde the new ones. cards older than base set black and white don't have an official format that they are playable but if you go to legacy or 2011 format matches they are usable
@@TheVictor126 Yeah, that's what I figured. Would love to be that mad man to screw around with Mew Prime or Lucario in conjunction with Prism Stars in order to essentially have more copies of really powerful attacks
just make a new card with a similar effect. I always feel errata kills the historical aspect of a card, especially if the meta changes so even the unerrataed version of the card is not that strong anymore. *stares at brain control from yugioh*
Has there ever been an alternate win condition in any TCG that was considered balanced? It just seems like a flawed idea from the get go. Either they are so bad that you could only pull them of with incredible luck or there is a way to exploit them which makes them way to good and leads to them getting banned immediatly.
Lost world was a stadium from gen 4 that had this text. "Once during ether players turn, if his or her opponent has 6 or more pokemon in the lost zone that player may choose to win the game" . People were worried about the card being overpowered before it released, the card gengar prime could directly send pokemon into the lost zone in multiple ways. However on arrival the deck underpreformed and did not become the game breaking deck players feared. Lost world was the first altertive win condition card we had and it wasnt broken. Although it would probably be OP in expanded if it were to become back.
There are plenty of instant win strategy in TCG that doesnt go bonker. MtG has a few gimmick insta win that never sees play. Yugioh has final countdown exodia. Pokemon has this, the unknown ftk that never sees play unless theres a broken card that supports the entire format
In MTG, self mill is a common alternative win con for combo decks, and it’s good enough to have seen play in competitive but not so broken as to be banned.
I play Pokémon TCG online and I am getting sick of playing against some degenerate decks like the Volcarora V FTK deck and other decks where once you opponent gets their combo you may as well quit right there. It’s making the game no fun to play. I have had this problem with MTG and YuGiOh but it’s never seemed this bad. I may quit.
Hey DuelLogs, why am I just now finding our you play pokemon too and have a pokemon TCG channel? That's cool, love the Yu-Gi-Oh content and am about to dive into your PTCG content
FYI, try to make sure that what you say matches what the card says - I've noticed a variety of mistakes in your videos (sorry, not trying to be hostile or anything). For example, in this video, you state that it is 66 or more damage counters in play. The card says that it is 66 damage counters on your benched Pokemon, which is very different than in play, since in play would include your active and your opponent's Pokemon. Just wanted to note this, since the wording on cards, especially those that have been banned, is very important Regardless, I love Pokemon TCG history, and these videos have been fun!
I love those unown cards; perhaps the mechanic could be more balanced if instead of winning the game, their condition let you draw a prize or two; so you have to achieve the condition, then maintain it for a few turns.
I love this and the other channels. I would like a top 10 pokemon with coin flip attacks (one of my very first deck on pokemon tcg online was essentially Malamar-Ex turbo, i would give him 6+ energies, because with its attack, fir each energy attached to it, you can flip a coin and for each heads you inflict 60 damage) I LOOOOVED HIM despite being the epidemy of unreliable 😅😅😅
In the past it has been strong, but it hasnt done well in a long time now. The last truly good mill deck was magcargo mill from the end of the sun and moon era in standard. In general mill has always suffered from a lack of support; simply not that many cards get milling attacks and there are even less trainers/abilities that do. Ig i'll do a brief run down on how mill did throughout the games lifespan. In gen 1 there is a deck that is partially based on mill lickilicky/moltres, a variant of licklytung stall that has moltres to aggressively mill cards which is good for mirrors. But in gens 2 and 3 there are no mill decks, people have tried and fail to make it work as theres just no good card that mills. In gen 3 in particular there just are no cards that can discard more then one card at a time from the opponents deck (those that do typically did damage and would just win the game before winning by deckout). In gen 4 there was another partial mill deck. Flygon level X had mill built into the card so that deck basically had two modes, an attacking mode and a mode were it would trap and mill the opponent. Although recently players have gone back and figured out that rhyperior works as a pure mill deck in 2007 even though it was not played at the time. The players who figured out the deck were able to build it primary based off the knowledge from mill that came from the future as well as finding a forgotten card azuril that worked perfectly for the deck. In gen 5 the most well known mill deck came out durant with no other pokemon expect for durant it was the games first pure mill deck as it had no other way to win besides the devour attack; durant also has seen some play in expanded but it fall off due to the format becoming to fast for it. Gen 6 was almost a no mill deck era however at the very end of XY and into very early SM houndoom ex was briefly competitive as a mill deck thanks to the rotation that effectively reversed the powercreep temporarily (then that powercreep came screaming back and the deck died) gen 7 mill had a hard time getting a foothold into the format because of oranguru because it being able to to effectivly recycle cards. However when mill got more support from cards like shedninja, magcargo and belleba the deck was able to turn oranguru from an enemy into the reason it could now succeed (oranguru could cycle belleba which was powerfull supporter that milled 3 from both players decks). Gen 8 has not had any mill deck succeed. Gen 5's Durant had a reprint that was almost like the original but the format was far to fast for milling just 4 cards a turn too work and the deck did not have enough disruption support ether; the deck was playable just not very good and it was the best of the worst. As far as general strategies go, mill is acutally the one that has done the least well. Decks that win without dealing damage have typically gone with a controlling or stall approach and while those decks could contain mill cards (such as wailord ex playing hugh and team rockets handiwork) it was the decks main function. Mill cards being used in those decks was primary to win before time ran out and to break stalemates without having to play an attacker.
@@TheVictor126 Considering that we often do get some pretty decent mill cards like the Pokemon Go Gyarados or Centiscorch it's at least a decently playable gimmick in expanded, which is a lot more than you can say for mill in something like Yugioh, where it's rarely ever functional
Oh god the Zoroark GX ptsd came back watching this. And in retrospect, Unown HAND was annoying in that it was just stall which was never fun to play against.
I am willing to bet if you just fill your deck with high HP Pokemon (like Magikarp and Wailord Tag Team), draw 3 cards Supporters, a few switch and Unown Hand, you don't even need any energies, you can win most games.
so, with lost zones being fairly major thanks to Lost Origins, Unown Missing may be more useful than we think. Specifically as a counter card Then again, I don't send all my supporters to the lost zone, I send tools, what would I know?
Imakuni's Doduo. You can either sing some endless looping song to annoy your opponent to forfeiting, or until you faint from singing too long. XD Pretty sure these suggestions will be outdated in the next one or two sets but... Top 10 Pokemon with an attack that deals damage based on the number of energy it has/energy on both Active Pokemon/energy on all of your Pokemon
Wow. Pokémon just nuked unknown the moment it could potentially do a thing, I like letting Firewall Dragon or other various loops go on for months or more at a time. That’s kinda nuts.
I understand that many cards need to be banned from competitive play to further an end goal of a healthy metagame. The only thing that bugs me is the idea of "we're going to ban this card before it can see play / become an issue" - what's the point of printing the OP card if it never gets to run over a couple of tournaments? I wouldn't have minded seeing at least one Regional over here have the Unown loop strategies be a thing, see them win an event, and THEN go "okay, you guys got to see why this is a problem, NOW we're banning it."
Cards are designed primarily for the Standard format which almost never has bans. It would be less fun for everyone if they left Expanded full of un-fun strategies to play against for longer than they needed to.
I never knew Pokémon had infinite combos like the one that enables unknown damage. That's a deck that wins (or could win) with 0 energy too which is really fascinating. I kind of want to build that deck for casual play...
Does kind of suck that Unown Hand was essentially banned as collateral damage for a different card. I always really like alternate win conditions in TCGs, especially in Pokemon because we don't get them very often at all. Mind you, the Pokemon TCG is slow enough where mill and stall decks often see way more success than in most card games, which could be seen as alternate win cons of their own
I used to play the Pokémon trading card game and I only quit earlier this year actually and I wish I discovered this channel during the time when I play it
Instead of banning full cards, they should ban card combos, for example, ban unknown with the weavilw or masquerading to stop that strategy but keep it playable. You can still use all those Pokémon, just not together
@@thegreatfirebolt1815 I disagree as there are so many combos with a card that are banned, even if they are not as good as they are in this vid, for instance red card and delinquent, matrshadow and delinquent, Lt, n and delinquent there are just too many
I had never even known that Pokemon TCG had alternate win conditions until recently, and this just reminds me of those insanely broken instant win cards in Magic The Gathering.
I appreciate that in this episode you generally used the oldest version of the cards you were talking about. Sometimes it's confusing or distracting in other videos when you show random versions of the cards you're discussing, like the ultra rare or a reprint. Ideally it would be nice to see the common or rare/fancy version of that card that was used at the time you are discussing, or when it's not as relevant, the oldest one so that we can easily see how far the card dates back to. Something ubiquitous like switch I think should be aligned with the generation you're discussing. Also I think some background music could make your videos a bit less dry. I appreciate the research and discussion gone into this video, it is interesting to look back on the competitive history and your explanations are fairly direct, but I find it can be a bit difficult to take it all in on one viewing sometimes.
Most cards that let you draw are either supporters (once per turn), shuffle-and-draw, or draw-untils, and on others you have to discard cards to draw, filling the hand up is quite hard.
both darkness and metal energies were first special energies with additional effects, it wasn't until years later that basic energies of those types were printed, so they just kept the name
I actually have the Unown card at the start of the video in my collection. The ability seems completely unusable though, and if it is then it’d be VERY hard to use it.
Could unkown missing become viable with the new lost origin cards? Because lost blender and colress’s experiment seem like good enough ways to get supporters in the lost zone
I wouldn't have done what Pokemon Company did. Simply errata that Klefki's ability can be used _once_ *per Klefki* before your attack. Example: If you have 3 Klefki in your hand at start of turn, you have 3 uses of that ability per turn. This prevents Klefki from essentially getting a free infinite hand scoop.
you literally described how exeggcute is worded except it can be used unlimited times per turn anyway since once something is in your hand it's private information and can't be kept track of for effects per the game rullings, so it wouldn't work
@@TheVictor126 If written as a hard once per turn condition instead ("You can't use more than 1 Wonder Lock Ability each turn."), it'll work even it goes back to the hand. Crobat V has this kind of condition written on its Ability.
@@Chiffonaise but that also prevents other copies from using abilities, the wasn't asking to make it a hard once per turn but instead once per copy, which is impossible to do with cards that return to hand
The unown hand deck you described never existed and couldn't have existed. 35 cards is more than half your deck, and by playing the game normally you won't have 35 cards combined between your hand and what's left of your deck a few turns in. And even if the plan could work on its own, amassing cards over a lot of turns can't (didn't) ever work because just playing N, Marshadow(now banned), or Marnie(unreleased at first) resets your hand size, and every single deck was playing at the VERY least 1 of those with easy ways to search them. To be able to win with Unown HAND you had to build a much more turbo oriented list, since giving your opponent time spelled disaster. Also, although Lucario&Melmetal defensive decks were a thing, they still won normally by getting KOs. To be able to win by deck out you had to device a completely different deck centered around looping trainers to provide infinite disruption and not deck out yourself. They didn't really ever became viable without Trainer Pokemon that don't provide any prize cards.
Stall decks played and won with Unown HAND in the Standard format. You can check the limitless website for proof. Lusamine looping allows you to recover enough discarded cards to have enough for 35. Lucario & Melmetal decks with Zacian V and Zamazenta V won by taking KOs, but they were not the only way the card was played. It was used as purely a wall with Acerola and Lusamine in the format it was first released in.
![NOSFERATU - Official Trailer [HD] - Only In Theaters December 25](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nulvWqYUM8k/mqdefault.jpg)
Fun fact: If you pull out a Unown victory in the Pokemon TCG Online, the victory screen will be made of Unowns.
Cool
I remember when they were in standard, that was always fun to see
i.imgur.com/kJIDGaH.jpg
Heres how it looks to lose to it
Wow
660 Unown attack
Sometimes when I’m home alone I like to glue water energy cards to my body and slide around on the kitchen floor pretending I’m a Gyarados.
I’ll do the same with lightning energies and pretend to be elektross and we can fight to see if type matchups matter irl
What did I just read
You just read the most, delightful and unadulterated free form poetry the world will ever know.
@@matthewsutton5804 I think this is the next stage of the Josh Swain fight meme.
Same
Unnown Missing is so tragic actually.
Because it had all the tools it needed. There were a LOT of ways to get your opponents Supporters into the Lost Zone.
But you would almost never find deck that runs more than 10 supporters. And you sure as heck won't in Expanded
ironically, if anything unown hand is better than ever now, as you will find a couple decks here and there that try fill the lost zone with prism star cards, some of which are supporters
still unplayable, but now you can win 1% of the time instead of 0%
I find it interesting how different the philosophies of TPC and Konami are. "Unknown Damage isn't doing much but it will be problematic in the long run, and we don't want people winning in the first turn, so we are banning it" vs "This card is making FTKs a bit too easy, but it's making money, so get bent, enjoy the format, cash pigs"
It's a bit different ever since they made standard the main tournament format and stopped supporting Expanded at tournaments. Expanded format is mainly just played online nowadays. We still get cards that dominate the standard format that TPCi won't ban because they make money like ADP. In fact no cards are currently banned in standard, usually they just stay problematic until they rotate out.
@@HopUpOutDaBed Didn't they ban Mismagius and Belleba & Brycen Man from standard for literally no reason whatsoever? Also ADP wasn't really the problem(tho it did make it even worse), the problem was 3-prize Pokémon as a whole being toxic.
@@icantthinkofaname4723 they've made a few bans from standard occasionally but currently none are banned. The point stands they've never banned a big money making EX/GX/V/Multiprize card
A lot of competitive players were wanting ADP banned, and I remember formats with worse offenders that were never banned.
@@icantthinkofaname4723 mismagius was banned purely because reset stamp and chip-chip ice axe were legal
for belleba and brycen man, the excuse was to prevent mill strats but really it was because it was a hard counter to eternatus, which was the star child of ptcgi at that moment
@@HopUpOutDaBed Well technically, Shaymin-EX is banned. Unless you mean they've never banned a high rarity card in Standard, but like...they've only banned a total of 3 cards from Standard ever.
The unown on the card actually spell out their ability, such a neat detail
Wait, brock's drying pan is in the game?!
You just troll us don’t you? With your pronunciation of names sometimes saying it right other times saying it so wrong it’s painful.
I won a league cup with unown hand in standard paired with sylveon gx I still don't think I'll ever get to that level of dopamine again
The moment I saw all the cards that had some kind of impact on the opponent or could be used to stall, made me irrationally angry. Also, really happy, because I never had to deal with a deck that literally says no to me. Even if I made one in MTG.
When I saw that unown ability “Hand” I already knew you was going to briefly talk about Zoroark GX amazing strat lol good vid man
i think top 10 dragon type mons (in their respective formats, or of all time) could be fun!
Maybe if he wants to be more current, have it be about the top 10 best attacks to use with Regidrago VStar which shouldn’t be too dissimilar of a list
As an Unown fan, having Unown being broken is a certified Unown win.
This man just lost me at "if you have 35 cards in your hand." Coming from the Yu-Gi-Oh! community, that sounds nuts. Lmao.
Gladion and Lillie would never have expected that their mother can be this problematic with her abilities that can use to save the both of them
Let's be honest, Lusamine is problematic no matter if she's in a card game, video game, or anime. Woman needs 90% more chill.
When I was getting back into modern yugioh with your top 10s, I quickly became familiar with the meta or "problem" cards based on which ones kept appearing consistently on lists. Knowing nothing about pokemon, I feel like I'm starting to learn in the same way based on seeing cards that keep coming up in these videos
Randomly came across this video and, as someone who quit wow 5 years ago, couldn't put my finger on where I recognised the voice from!
Something I have been curious about is why the old lost zone pokemon cards are banned, even with the new lost zone mechanic being a meta strategy
Because some of the old lost zone cards can ruin new lost zone decks. Like the stadium that lets you win the game if the opponent has 6 pokemon in the lost zone.
@@mrcombustiblelemon2902 Are any of the other HGSS lost zone cards banned? Can't remember what they called said format as this goes far beyond the current expanded format
@@munchrai6396 I don't know if there are any banned cards in that format
they... aren't
there is literally no lost zone card banned, it's just set rotations, you can still use the sun and moon era lost zone cards in expanded alongisde the new ones. cards older than base set black and white don't have an official format that they are playable but if you go to legacy or 2011 format matches they are usable
@@TheVictor126 Yeah, that's what I figured. Would love to be that mad man to screw around with Mew Prime or Lucario in conjunction with Prism Stars in order to essentially have more copies of really powerful attacks
Surely issuing an errata for Lusamine would be better so it can't recover itself.
Does Pokémon do erratas?
@@milianjosh Catcher had a errata where it required a coinflip.
@@milianjosh potion which is one of the first cards ever printed got an errata to heal 30 instead of 20.
The question that needs to be is why didn't they make the card unable to recover itself in the first place.
just make a new card with a similar effect. I always feel errata kills the historical aspect of a card, especially if the meta changes so even the unerrataed version of the card is not that strong anymore. *stares at brain control from yugioh*
Has there ever been an alternate win condition in any TCG that was considered balanced? It just seems like a flawed idea from the get go. Either they are so bad that you could only pull them of with incredible luck or there is a way to exploit them which makes them way to good and leads to them getting banned immediatly.
Unown hand was perfectly balanced in standard format imo, it could be used in stall / control decks that very viable but not top tier.
Lost world was a stadium from gen 4 that had this text. "Once during ether players turn, if his or her opponent has 6 or more pokemon in the lost zone that player may choose to win the game" . People were worried about the card being overpowered before it released, the card gengar prime could directly send pokemon into the lost zone in multiple ways. However on arrival the deck underpreformed and did not become the game breaking deck players feared. Lost world was the first altertive win condition card we had and it wasnt broken. Although it would probably be OP in expanded if it were to become back.
There are plenty of instant win strategy in TCG that doesnt go bonker. MtG has a few gimmick insta win that never sees play. Yugioh has final countdown exodia. Pokemon has this, the unknown ftk that never sees play unless theres a broken card that supports the entire format
In MTG, self mill is a common alternative win con for combo decks, and it’s good enough to have seen play in competitive but not so broken as to be banned.
I play Pokémon TCG online and I am getting sick of playing against some degenerate decks like the Volcarora V
FTK deck and other decks where once you opponent gets their combo you may as well quit right there. It’s making the game no fun to play. I have had this problem with MTG and YuGiOh but it’s never seemed this bad. I may quit.
So glad you started doing ptcg. I loved the way you commentate over yugioh but i don’t understand the game like i do Pokémon.
I like that Pokemon actually bans infinites and FTKs.
Hey DuelLogs, why am I just now finding our you play pokemon too and have a pokemon TCG channel? That's cool, love the Yu-Gi-Oh content and am about to dive into your PTCG content
Hey guys, I stopped playing it a long time ago
Is the meta still OHKO cancer?
FYI, try to make sure that what you say matches what the card says - I've noticed a variety of mistakes in your videos (sorry, not trying to be hostile or anything). For example, in this video, you state that it is 66 or more damage counters in play. The card says that it is 66 damage counters on your benched Pokemon, which is very different than in play, since in play would include your active and your opponent's Pokemon.
Just wanted to note this, since the wording on cards, especially those that have been banned, is very important
Regardless, I love Pokemon TCG history, and these videos have been fun!
"If you do, You win the game"
Is this MTG?????
I've seen couple of videos about the potential Wally ban in expanded because of Lugia Vstar.
Maybe something to look into.
Take a shot every time he pronounces Lusamine differently
😵💫
I love those unown cards; perhaps the mechanic could be more balanced if instead of winning the game, their condition let you draw a prize or two; so you have to achieve the condition, then maintain it for a few turns.
I love this and the other channels. I would like a top 10 pokemon with coin flip attacks (one of my very first deck on pokemon tcg online was essentially Malamar-Ex turbo, i would give him 6+ energies, because with its attack, fir each energy attached to it, you can flip a coin and for each heads you inflict 60 damage) I LOOOOVED HIM despite being the epidemy of unreliable 😅😅😅
Unown damage was also possible on T1 in expanded with Frozen City and Archie’s Blastoise
The fact that the standard format ban list is so short compared to the HUGE expanded ban list is wild and fun
I mean, I guess "short" is a way to describe "nothing is banned in Standard"
Why are you saying “Unknown”. It’s pronounced UN-own
Anything on Mill as a viable deck strategy?
I have created such deck, bunnelby is the key
What about Durant?
In the past it has been strong, but it hasnt done well in a long time now. The last truly good mill deck was magcargo mill from the end of the sun and moon era in standard.
In general mill has always suffered from a lack of support; simply not that many cards get milling attacks and there are even less trainers/abilities that do. Ig i'll do a brief run down on how mill did throughout the games lifespan.
In gen 1 there is a deck that is partially based on mill lickilicky/moltres, a variant of licklytung stall that has moltres to aggressively mill cards which is good for mirrors. But in gens 2 and 3 there are no mill decks, people have tried and fail to make it work as theres just no good card that mills. In gen 3 in particular there just are no cards that can discard more then one card at a time from the opponents deck (those that do typically did damage and would just win the game before winning by deckout).
In gen 4 there was another partial mill deck. Flygon level X had mill built into the card so that deck basically had two modes, an attacking mode and a mode were it would trap and mill the opponent. Although recently players have gone back and figured out that rhyperior works as a pure mill deck in 2007 even though it was not played at the time. The players who figured out the deck were able to build it primary based off the knowledge from mill that came from the future as well as finding a forgotten card azuril that worked perfectly for the deck.
In gen 5 the most well known mill deck came out durant with no other pokemon expect for durant it was the games first pure mill deck as it had no other way to win besides the devour attack; durant also has seen some play in expanded but it fall off due to the format becoming to fast for it.
Gen 6 was almost a no mill deck era however at the very end of XY and into very early SM houndoom ex was briefly competitive as a mill deck thanks to the rotation that effectively reversed the powercreep temporarily (then that powercreep came screaming back and the deck died)
gen 7 mill had a hard time getting a foothold into the format because of oranguru because it being able to to effectivly recycle cards. However when mill got more support from cards like shedninja, magcargo and belleba the deck was able to turn oranguru from an enemy into the reason it could now succeed (oranguru could cycle belleba which was powerfull supporter that milled 3 from both players decks).
Gen 8 has not had any mill deck succeed. Gen 5's Durant had a reprint that was almost like the original but the format was far to fast for milling just 4 cards a turn too work and the deck did not have enough disruption support ether; the deck was playable just not very good and it was the best of the worst.
As far as general strategies go, mill is acutally the one that has done the least well. Decks that win without dealing damage have typically gone with a controlling or stall approach and while those decks could contain mill cards (such as wailord ex playing hugh and team rockets handiwork) it was the decks main function. Mill cards being used in those decks was primary to win before time ran out and to break stalemates without having to play an attacker.
Mill was meta on black and white era, now it's nothing more than a gimmick, although it's substantially better in expanded than in standard
@@TheVictor126 Considering that we often do get some pretty decent mill cards like the Pokemon Go Gyarados or Centiscorch it's at least a decently playable gimmick in expanded, which is a lot more than you can say for mill in something like Yugioh, where it's rarely ever functional
Oh god the Zoroark GX ptsd came back watching this. And in retrospect, Unown HAND was annoying in that it was just stall which was never fun to play against.
Unown cards always spell something with the letters on the card Art, hand spells hand damage has damage and the vstar say vstar!
I am willing to bet if you just fill your deck with high HP Pokemon (like Magikarp and Wailord Tag Team), draw 3 cards Supporters, a few switch and Unown Hand, you don't even need any energies, you can win most games.
so, with lost zones being fairly major thanks to Lost Origins, Unown Missing may be more useful than we think. Specifically as a counter card
Then again, I don't send all my supporters to the lost zone, I send tools, what would I know?
Imakuni's Doduo. You can either sing some endless looping song to annoy your opponent to forfeiting, or until you faint from singing too long.
XD
Pretty sure these suggestions will be outdated in the next one or two sets but...
Top 10 Pokemon with an attack that deals damage based on the number of energy it has/energy on both Active Pokemon/energy on all of your Pokemon
Wow. Pokémon just nuked unknown the moment it could potentially do a thing, I like letting Firewall Dragon or other various loops go on for months or more at a time. That’s kinda nuts.
I understand that many cards need to be banned from competitive play to further an end goal of a healthy metagame. The only thing that bugs me is the idea of "we're going to ban this card before it can see play / become an issue" - what's the point of printing the OP card if it never gets to run over a couple of tournaments? I wouldn't have minded seeing at least one Regional over here have the Unown loop strategies be a thing, see them win an event, and THEN go "okay, you guys got to see why this is a problem, NOW we're banning it."
Cards are designed primarily for the Standard format which almost never has bans. It would be less fun for everyone if they left Expanded full of un-fun strategies to play against for longer than they needed to.
I never knew Pokémon had infinite combos like the one that enables unknown damage. That's a deck that wins (or could win) with 0 energy too which is really fascinating. I kind of want to build that deck for casual play...
Drinking game: whenever DexLog mispronounces a name he pronounced correctly earlier in the same video :P
Why not limit the amount of Lusamine cards? If Yu Gi Oh can do it, why can't Pokemon TCG?
NO WAY. I had no idea you had this channel besides your WoW channel. Thank you RUclips recommended.
Does kind of suck that Unown Hand was essentially banned as collateral damage for a different card. I always really like alternate win conditions in TCGs, especially in Pokemon because we don't get them very often at all. Mind you, the Pokemon TCG is slow enough where mill and stall decks often see way more success than in most card games, which could be seen as alternate win cons of their own
If anyone plays pokemon and loves when u can do combos, try magic the gathering, thank me now before later
I used to play the Pokémon trading card game and I only quit earlier this year actually and I wish I discovered this channel during the time when I play it
Why am I watching this at 4:00 AM? I don't even play the Pokemon TCG
Unown is like the TCG equivalent of Exodia from Yugioh.
Instead of banning full cards, they should ban card combos, for example, ban unknown with the weavilw or masquerading to stop that strategy but keep it playable. You can still use all those Pokémon, just not together
It would not work well for tech online and there would be loopholes
@@ratsausage2543 that's just because they don't know how to make a real game, I think it would work nicely
@@thegreatfirebolt1815 I disagree as there are so many combos with a card that are banned, even if they are not as good as they are in this vid, for instance red card and delinquent, matrshadow and delinquent, Lt, n and delinquent there are just too many
Okay but can we talk about how the artwork actually spells the abilities’s word
Please... Pronounce Lusamine consistently
that is the correct way though?
@@sablesalt he pronounced it five different ways
Coincidentally N and Marnie are my favourite characters in all of pokemon
I actually have a lot of these cards in real life.
Sadly not in multiples.
Unown damage was also usable with rain dance ability, energy reset and frozen city 😅
My nastiest decks like having Lusamine around.
Most expensive digital cards would be fun
what video shows off why WALLY was banned?
Yes. This is quality video making.
I had never even known that Pokemon TCG had alternate win conditions until recently, and this just reminds me of those insanely broken instant win cards in Magic The Gathering.
Which ones are those?
_Lusamommy_
Of course, good video👍
im not sure if pokemon has has any tier 0 equivalents like yugioh but if it has had those i would love to see a video on that
nightmarch, seismitoad, ADP, and maaaaaaybe Palkia V Star on release
So expanded format means you can build decks using all cards ever released?
All cards released since Black and White.
Wouldn't you just use magnera to pick up tools, since it's a basic?
Magnearna's Ability can only be used once-per-turn.
I appreciate that in this episode you generally used the oldest version of the cards you were talking about. Sometimes it's confusing or distracting in other videos when you show random versions of the cards you're discussing, like the ultra rare or a reprint. Ideally it would be nice to see the common or rare/fancy version of that card that was used at the time you are discussing, or when it's not as relevant, the oldest one so that we can easily see how far the card dates back to. Something ubiquitous like switch I think should be aligned with the generation you're discussing. Also I think some background music could make your videos a bit less dry. I appreciate the research and discussion gone into this video, it is interesting to look back on the competitive history and your explanations are fairly direct, but I find it can be a bit difficult to take it all in on one viewing sometimes.
This was unknown to me!
With the Unown. Couldn’t you technically make a deck with just 4 unown and just fill the deck with nothing but trainer cards that let you draw cards?
Easy to knockout, and there aren't really cards that let you just draw with no downside.
Most cards that let you draw are either supporters (once per turn), shuffle-and-draw, or draw-untils, and on others you have to discard cards to draw, filling the hand up is quite hard.
Best E-Reader cards
Does expanded not half the "half your starting deck size" rule?
Expanded format is where you can use cards out of rotation
I had no idea they changed the Steel type to "Metal" in the TCG, that's so weird
They also changed electric to lightning
both darkness and metal energies were first special energies with additional effects, it wasn't until years later that basic energies of those types were printed, so they just kept the name
😌 PЯӨMӨƧM
Neat analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
I actually have the Unown card at the start of the video in my collection. The ability seems completely unusable though, and if it is then it’d be VERY hard to use it.
Could unkown missing become viable with the new lost origin cards? Because lost blender and colress’s experiment seem like good enough ways to get supporters in the lost zone
Nope. Those cards affect your cards. MISSING needs your opponent's cards in the Lost Zone.
They should use the full art versions of the cards whenever possible.
I wouldn't have done what Pokemon Company did. Simply errata that Klefki's ability can be used _once_ *per Klefki* before your attack. Example: If you have 3 Klefki in your hand at start of turn, you have 3 uses of that ability per turn. This prevents Klefki from essentially getting a free infinite hand scoop.
you literally described how exeggcute is worded
except it can be used unlimited times per turn anyway since once something is in your hand it's private information and can't be kept track of for effects per the game rullings, so it wouldn't work
@@TheVictor126 Not even the judge?
@@Lenoh unlike yu-gi-oh, this children card game doesn't suppose you have a judge on standby, and no exceptionsare made
@@TheVictor126 If written as a hard once per turn condition instead ("You can't use more than 1 Wonder Lock Ability each turn."), it'll work even it goes back to the hand. Crobat V has this kind of condition written on its Ability.
@@Chiffonaise but that also prevents other copies from using abilities, the wasn't asking to make it a hard once per turn but instead once per copy, which is impossible to do with cards that return to hand
The unown hand deck you described never existed and couldn't have existed. 35 cards is more than half your deck, and by playing the game normally you won't have 35 cards combined between your hand and what's left of your deck a few turns in.
And even if the plan could work on its own, amassing cards over a lot of turns can't (didn't) ever work because just playing N, Marshadow(now banned), or Marnie(unreleased at first) resets your hand size, and every single deck was playing at the VERY least 1 of those with easy ways to search them. To be able to win with Unown HAND you had to build a much more turbo oriented list, since giving your opponent time spelled disaster.
Also, although Lucario&Melmetal defensive decks were a thing, they still won normally by getting KOs. To be able to win by deck out you had to device a completely different deck centered around looping trainers to provide infinite disruption and not deck out yourself. They didn't really ever became viable without Trainer Pokemon that don't provide any prize cards.
Stall decks played and won with Unown HAND in the Standard format. You can check the limitless website for proof. Lusamine looping allows you to recover enough discarded cards to have enough for 35.
Lucario & Melmetal decks with Zacian V and Zamazenta V won by taking KOs, but they were not the only way the card was played. It was used as purely a wall with Acerola and Lusamine in the format it was first released in.