Hey guys! I appreciate all the feedback and with that being said i do agree ball in F is a bit harsh. He will be moved up for the next tier list! Thank you.
Zen could be a tier or two higher, discord and harmony are probably some of the most free value abilities in the game, it's one press of a button and bam, suddenly value. No need to position nearby or even within LOS because both orbs stick onto their targets for a small period of time while out of LOS of said target so as long as you see them every so often it's never going away unless it's manually cleansed w/ Zarya bubble. Yes discord in particular does rely on your team actually hitting shots on the enemy, but like Mercy dmg boost, it multiplies the effectiveness of those shots meaning even if you have DPS who can't aim as well in lower elos, when they do hit their shots, those shots are going to be more impactful. Also Zen is good paired with every other healer in the game besides maybe Lucio, and if you run Zen + Bap specifically, you basically have 4 dps on your team which gives plenty of opportunity to net kills whereas sometimes not even 2 dps is enough in lower elos. I also think Moira should be bumped at least one tier up. Yes she may not seem like she's providing the most heals in lower elos if you're using her for her damage output, but if you pick Moira and understand the simple fact that your ult charges faster from healing than damage plus your ult can win team fights for free (specifically the 1st or 2nd fight of a round before anyone else has ults), it's such a mindset change. It becomes less about "let me make up for my team's deficiency by providing high healing" or "let me be the heal bot" and more about "let me charge my ult using heals in order to carry us to objective progress." I totally disagree that Moria's Coal is lower impact. It seems low-impact and subtle, much like a lot of her consistency-focused kit, but trust me, Coal's constant output of both healing and damage that is literally unavoidable without hard cover can easily overwhelm teams who aren't managing their cooldowns properly. If enemy Ana wastes her nade, if enemy Mercy doesn't have ult, if enemy Lucio doesn't have amp, if enemy Zen doesn't have ult, if enemy Brig doesn't have ult, you're guaranteed value with Moira's ult whereas a lot of ults, especially support ults, can often be wasted by the team you're using them for not knowing how to capitalize off them (ex. Nano, Rally, aggressive usage of Beat and Trans, Window). Moira's ult directly impacts the tempo of the fight and forces it into her team's favor, and if the enemy doesn't combat it with cooldowns or clever pathing (the latter of which is basically nonexistent in lower elos), they will lose the fight. Moira's coal is a noob-stomper, specifically to enemy supports. If the enemy Ana doesn't know she has to use her nade on it, she won't be able to heal her team through it. If the enemy Mercy doesn't know she has to use her Valk on it, she won't be able to heal her team through it. The raw numbers are so strong, and Moira gets it so fast literally just by healing her team--she doesn't even have to engage the enemy to carry fights because as soon as she gets her ult, she can be max 30 meters away pumping a consistent 70 dps into them freely. And that's not even talking about how nuts her fade is. Without it you have a high healing output support hero with aoe heals that can also deal decent damage AND has a super strong ult who is weak to being dived on or isolated. However, as soon as you drop fade into her kit, suddenly she can be intentionally greedy and not be punished for it and simultaneously avoid dives and flanks. It's literally like you dumped Tracer's recall onto Bap or something in exchange for the utility of lamp. Between that and her heal orb and self healing, the enemy team has to actively put effort into killing her because she's simultaneously tanky and slippery, and in lower elos where people have shaky aim and poor coordination, she's a nightmare that keeps her entire team alive and kills the enemy team at the same time. And on top of that all, she doesn't even have to aim, which is where I think Ana could be bumped down a tier, basically swap Ana and Moira. Antinade can win fights and nano is strong, but not as strong or reliable as coal or the aoe heals that Moira provides, and telling a bronze/silver/maybe even gold Ana to carry fights with antinade is a big ask for someone who queued usually to be a heal bot or because they just assume that they have to play her since the team comp requires it (ex. dive). It's also very common for Ana to be off-healer in lower elos to the point where even Zen and Lucio can outheal her because their healing is brainless. It takes zero brain power to drop a harmony orb or crossfade to heal aura, meanwhile Ana actually needs to shoot her allies to keep them alive, and lower elos do struggle with the aim.
Lucio and hog are too high on this list imo. I see a lot of people instalock both and they tend to be the throwers that think they're solo carrying. The best way to solo carry is to support your team and it's very unintuitive for these characters to do that at lower elo. Not to mention they don't really play very well with other tank/support in their category. Mercy Lucio = fuck me this game is going to be 100x harder than necessary. Rein hog....like there's just better tank comps to pick. I can understand the desire for independence in a solo queue environment but zarya is such a strong pick because you can so easily save the asses of every idiot on your team. Dva is strong for a similar reason with her mobility she can support her team from all over the field. With hog....all you can really do is land your hooks and hope your team doesn't die in the meantime. You can't really do anything else for them. I also think moira is a little low. Definetly her value drops in higher elo but her survivability is so high that it justifies picking her at least in lower elo imo
What did you disagree on? I’m open to suggestions and feedback. Also of course this isn’t an end all be all tier list it is just my opinion based on my personal experiences getting out of lower ranks personally
@@abyxis I’ve climbed from 1100 to 4100. The problem with this list is you are focusing to much on the team play aspect vs solo carry. Being able to solo carry doesn’t really matter if your team is throwing. Best way to consistently climb is to help your team do better instead of trying to carry solo. With solo carry mindaet you’ll find yourself getting stuck in gold/plat even if you are mechanically good.
I am pretty bad, but I was just curious if I could get an explanation on sigma, because a lot of the time, I don’t find sigma players and when I do , they never really make a good contribution. I am a gold rein though so don’t take me to seriously
Hey no worries so the main reason you might not see alot of sigmas in silver/gold is because he does have a pretty high skill floor. He can be hard to pickup and if played poorly he can feel underwhelming. The reason i rank him so high is because he has high damage, one of the better shields in the game, a defensive ability to help him get out of trouble, and a big teamfight changing ultimate. He does alot of things well and dosent have many true weakness compared to other tanks. Of course its just my opinion though.
I think Mercy and Ana are A or S just not b. I like brig but feel like she is really niche and has to be swapped a lot but my peak is only mid diamond but in that rank brig has to switch a lot lol.
Yeah brig can be abused a bit and dosent fit into every comp in diamond. I just find a lot of the time in low elo she is usually not punished very much and gets a ton of value for low effort. Ana would be S for me if this were targeted at higher elo due to her raw potential
I dont think echo is s tier cus echo kind of has a higher skill floor. If u have no idea how to play echo then she can be hard for people in lower elos
Yeah after rewatching this a few times I do agree she is very difficult for a low elo player to play well. I had solider in S for my last tier list Because I find him to be great in low elo due to him being easier to play, self sufficient and he still has carry potential. Echo has more potential but is harder to get value out of. I appreciate the feedback though it helps me improve and see things I may have messed up on
Sym is a hard one because she can be s tier on some maps and not so great on others. Usually I have consistency or the ability to pick a hero In as many situations as possible as something that will move a hero up or down but I agree I should have made a point about sym being map dependent. Thank you for the feedback 😀
same with lucio, often a must pick, even if you just use lucio to spd amp out of spawn then immediately swap to another healer, preferably mercy/moira/brig so you can at least somewhat keep up with your team after the spd amp, i really think he should be higher specifically for koth and 2cp because getting to the point first in koth is so strong and being able to ferry your team through those hard chokes in 2cp is so strong too
Yeah the more I’ve heard from feedback the more I see the point and I will be moving ball up on the next tier list. I still believe sombra should be avoided by low elo players though.
I may have been a bit hard on ball in hindsight and I will be moving him up next tier list after hearing alot of feedback on it but I have truly seen some horrendous balls in bronze and silver and alot of lower elo players struggle to understand his job. I would agree though next time I will move him up. Orisa is a very very good hero but I do find her alot stronger if you can get a tank duo to combo with. she’s an underrated pick for sure though
@@abyxis I can see this logic with Ball being dog shit in low elos and same with Orisa. Orisa is easy value if you learn to play around your cooldowns properly.
@@paoloalto that’s a fair point. You can be horrendous at any heroes. I just find bad balls to be virtually useless as far as getting value goes. Although he is gonna be moved up next time. F may have been a bit harsh.
sym and torb are OK. I dont find them great in every situation so they get a knock for consistency. On certain maps and into certain comps though they can be very strong
Have you ever watched a bronze or silver player try to play sombra or ball? A low elo player is much better off playing something they can more easily get impact on versus heroes that are harder to master and harder to get value without communication on. Ball is good but isn’t exactly easy to play and bad balls will feed ult charge and get very little value. And sombra in low elo is IMO not exactly worth playing when you aren’t going to be able to generally communicate who your hacking and when your engaging unless you know the people you are playing with are going to follow up on it.
Also just to put this out there. Jay3, flats, gameleap all put sombra extremely low for players trying to climb lower ladder. Until around 3000-3500 you are much better off playing something else. She could be d tier and C would be a stretch. At least for me. But at the end of the day you can play anybody you want and climb and it’s just my opinion. Cool doomfist POTG BTW. He’s the one dps I can’t play very well
Keep in mind that this would be a bunch of bronze silver and gold players who have no coordination. If this were like diamond plus then ball and sombra become very good
@@10_ow that is basically why I have them so low. I don’t think they are garbage heroes I just believe they are too complex for low elo players to get much value out of. Without team coordination sombra really suffers and a inexperienced ball will feed ult charge and not do a whole lot compared to somebody else who may be easier
It's videos like this that force bad players to stay bad. I stopped watching the moment you put Ball in F tier. Ball is the ultimate carry from under 500 bronze all the way up to 4700. You absolutely cannot deny that.
If a player knows how to play ball he can be one of the best carry heroes in the game. I did however take a lot of consideration into how difficult the hero is to play here and when watching low elo games you tend to see a lot of balls feeding ult charge and getting 0 value. The reality is any hero can carry if your great at them but I don’t see many great ball players when they are new to the game or not great at it. There are much easier heroes to get value on and pull off that perhaps less mechanically inclined or newer players can climb on.
@@romannotre5863 lol. You can dislike the video and move on. Im not deleting anything. Welcome to the internet opinions everywhere and you don’t have to agree.
@@romannotre5863 also. In all your steams your a gold console tank? If ball is the ultimate carry then why haven’t you managed to get out of gold? Maybe something to think about.
For sure a great Hammond can absolutely take over games and is a fantastic pick if you are good at him but for these I make them for low elo and Hammond can be very hard to master compared to other tanks. For me I tend to notice low elo hammonds don’t get a ton of value just due to how difficult he is to play.
@@abyxis oh sorry i didnt know this was a low elo tier list, if thats the case absolutely yes because most trash hammonds usually feed ult charge with their massive health
@@abyxis Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion but you say that ball lacks solo carry potential, and even if you do everything correct, you can still not win because ball needs team coordination. This is just false. Ball is probably the tank with one the highest solo-carry potential, because he does not rely on team support to carry (ofc he is better with team coordination, but so is every other character in the game), and can shred teams who do not know how to counter him, even if you are not a "master" at ball, basic fundamentals of timing shreds teams in lower elo's. Do you really think Moira has more solo-carry potential than ball? If your list is based on silver and below and needing some level of skill makes someone F tier then tracer should also be F tier.
@@المرأةهيبيتيهوبيتيهيملكية I do see what your saying and of course it is all just opinion. Perhaps putting ball so low is a bit harsh but it does of course go off of my personal experiences and watching bronze/silver players really struggle to understand their job as him since he is a bit different functionally than a lot of other tanks where as even a tracer not doing her job well can at least be doing something but I do see what your saying about skill to play and I may change that as a major factor for my next tier list. I am also new to making these and from my last one to this one I have taken some of this feedback and tried to work it in to my picks so I do appreciate this comment because stuff like this helps me improve and see other points of view.
Hey guys! I appreciate all the feedback and with that being said i do agree ball in F is a bit harsh. He will be moved up for the next tier list! Thank you.
Zen could be a tier or two higher, discord and harmony are probably some of the most free value abilities in the game, it's one press of a button and bam, suddenly value. No need to position nearby or even within LOS because both orbs stick onto their targets for a small period of time while out of LOS of said target so as long as you see them every so often it's never going away unless it's manually cleansed w/ Zarya bubble. Yes discord in particular does rely on your team actually hitting shots on the enemy, but like Mercy dmg boost, it multiplies the effectiveness of those shots meaning even if you have DPS who can't aim as well in lower elos, when they do hit their shots, those shots are going to be more impactful. Also Zen is good paired with every other healer in the game besides maybe Lucio, and if you run Zen + Bap specifically, you basically have 4 dps on your team which gives plenty of opportunity to net kills whereas sometimes not even 2 dps is enough in lower elos.
I also think Moira should be bumped at least one tier up. Yes she may not seem like she's providing the most heals in lower elos if you're using her for her damage output, but if you pick Moira and understand the simple fact that your ult charges faster from healing than damage plus your ult can win team fights for free (specifically the 1st or 2nd fight of a round before anyone else has ults), it's such a mindset change. It becomes less about "let me make up for my team's deficiency by providing high healing" or "let me be the heal bot" and more about "let me charge my ult using heals in order to carry us to objective progress." I totally disagree that Moria's Coal is lower impact. It seems low-impact and subtle, much like a lot of her consistency-focused kit, but trust me, Coal's constant output of both healing and damage that is literally unavoidable without hard cover can easily overwhelm teams who aren't managing their cooldowns properly. If enemy Ana wastes her nade, if enemy Mercy doesn't have ult, if enemy Lucio doesn't have amp, if enemy Zen doesn't have ult, if enemy Brig doesn't have ult, you're guaranteed value with Moira's ult whereas a lot of ults, especially support ults, can often be wasted by the team you're using them for not knowing how to capitalize off them (ex. Nano, Rally, aggressive usage of Beat and Trans, Window). Moira's ult directly impacts the tempo of the fight and forces it into her team's favor, and if the enemy doesn't combat it with cooldowns or clever pathing (the latter of which is basically nonexistent in lower elos), they will lose the fight. Moira's coal is a noob-stomper, specifically to enemy supports. If the enemy Ana doesn't know she has to use her nade on it, she won't be able to heal her team through it. If the enemy Mercy doesn't know she has to use her Valk on it, she won't be able to heal her team through it. The raw numbers are so strong, and Moira gets it so fast literally just by healing her team--she doesn't even have to engage the enemy to carry fights because as soon as she gets her ult, she can be max 30 meters away pumping a consistent 70 dps into them freely.
And that's not even talking about how nuts her fade is. Without it you have a high healing output support hero with aoe heals that can also deal decent damage AND has a super strong ult who is weak to being dived on or isolated. However, as soon as you drop fade into her kit, suddenly she can be intentionally greedy and not be punished for it and simultaneously avoid dives and flanks. It's literally like you dumped Tracer's recall onto Bap or something in exchange for the utility of lamp. Between that and her heal orb and self healing, the enemy team has to actively put effort into killing her because she's simultaneously tanky and slippery, and in lower elos where people have shaky aim and poor coordination, she's a nightmare that keeps her entire team alive and kills the enemy team at the same time. And on top of that all, she doesn't even have to aim, which is where I think Ana could be bumped down a tier, basically swap Ana and Moira. Antinade can win fights and nano is strong, but not as strong or reliable as coal or the aoe heals that Moira provides, and telling a bronze/silver/maybe even gold Ana to carry fights with antinade is a big ask for someone who queued usually to be a heal bot or because they just assume that they have to play her since the team comp requires it (ex. dive). It's also very common for Ana to be off-healer in lower elos to the point where even Zen and Lucio can outheal her because their healing is brainless. It takes zero brain power to drop a harmony orb or crossfade to heal aura, meanwhile Ana actually needs to shoot her allies to keep them alive, and lower elos do struggle with the aim.
exactly. I LOVE zen... plat player here.
Lucio and hog are too high on this list imo. I see a lot of people instalock both and they tend to be the throwers that think they're solo carrying. The best way to solo carry is to support your team and it's very unintuitive for these characters to do that at lower elo. Not to mention they don't really play very well with other tank/support in their category. Mercy Lucio = fuck me this game is going to be 100x harder than necessary. Rein hog....like there's just better tank comps to pick. I can understand the desire for independence in a solo queue environment but zarya is such a strong pick because you can so easily save the asses of every idiot on your team. Dva is strong for a similar reason with her mobility she can support her team from all over the field. With hog....all you can really do is land your hooks and hope your team doesn't die in the meantime. You can't really do anything else for them.
I also think moira is a little low. Definetly her value drops in higher elo but her survivability is so high that it justifies picking her at least in lower elo imo
As a masters tank there is a lot of things wrong with this
What did you disagree on? I’m open to suggestions and feedback. Also of course this isn’t an end all be all tier list it is just my opinion based on my personal experiences getting out of lower ranks personally
Wait your a masters tank? What is your SR? just curious
@@abyxis i think ball is a tier hes not bad
@@abyxis I’ve climbed from 1100 to 4100. The problem with this list is you are focusing to much on the team play aspect vs solo carry. Being able to solo carry doesn’t really matter if your team is throwing. Best way to consistently climb is to help your team do better instead of trying to carry solo. With solo carry mindaet you’ll find yourself getting stuck in gold/plat even if you are mechanically good.
@@jakmak94 that’s a very fair point and I will take that into consideration for next time.
Got recommended this video, so It's getting recommended about.
I feel like as a new player, I tried genji and I actually got really good value out of him.
very good video wow
underated
Appreciate it! sorry for the late response! Studio missed this one
I am pretty bad, but I was just curious if I could get an explanation on sigma, because a lot of the time, I don’t find sigma players and when I do , they never really make a good contribution. I am a gold rein though so don’t take me to seriously
I think its because of his high dmg and because his kit is really balanced. He has a shield absorb and stun.
Hey no worries so the main reason you might not see alot of sigmas in silver/gold is because he does have a pretty high skill floor. He can be hard to pickup and if played poorly he can feel underwhelming. The reason i rank him so high is because he has high damage, one of the better shields in the game, a defensive ability to help him get out of trouble, and a big teamfight changing ultimate. He does alot of things well and dosent have many true weakness compared to other tanks. Of course its just my opinion though.
I think Mercy and Ana are A or S just not b. I like brig but feel like she is really niche and has to be swapped a lot but my peak is only mid diamond but in that rank brig has to switch a lot lol.
Yeah brig can be abused a bit and dosent fit into every comp in diamond. I just find a lot of the time in low elo she is usually not punished very much and gets a ton of value for low effort. Ana would be S for me if this were targeted at higher elo due to her raw potential
I dont think echo is s tier cus echo kind of has a higher skill floor. If u have no idea how to play echo then she can be hard for people in lower elos
Yeah after rewatching this a few times I do agree she is very difficult for a low elo player to play well. I had solider in S for my last tier list Because I find him to be great in low elo due to him being easier to play, self sufficient and he still has carry potential. Echo has more potential but is harder to get value out of. I appreciate the feedback though it helps me improve and see things I may have messed up on
@@abyxis soldier is an easy s tier fs
Sym C tier????? She’s almost a must pick for koth maps
Sym is a hard one because she can be s tier on some maps and not so great on others. Usually I have consistency or the ability to pick a hero In as many situations as possible as something that will move a hero up or down but I agree I should have made a point about sym being map dependent. Thank you for the feedback 😀
whats koth?
@@MegaRazaele king of the hill
same with lucio, often a must pick, even if you just use lucio to spd amp out of spawn then immediately swap to another healer, preferably mercy/moira/brig so you can at least somewhat keep up with your team after the spd amp, i really think he should be higher specifically for koth and 2cp because getting to the point first in koth is so strong and being able to ferry your team through those hard chokes in 2cp is so strong too
The tier list has been the same since 8 months ago
But he hasn't made tier lists on overwatch for 8 months?
Mei is underrated
I would agree. I see a lot of people out her in the f or d tier but I think in a lot of scenarios she can be very useful.
No way ball is f tier, sombra is tho
Yeah the more I’ve heard from feedback the more I see the point and I will be moving ball up on the next tier list. I still believe sombra should be avoided by low elo players though.
Your rank? Just feel like alot of these are wrong. (My opinion)
Same, some thing I agree with and some things I just don’t get
I think it works as a low elo tier list, but I can agree that this isnt as accurate for high elo. (2500+)
@@bigbrainedfish7859 2500+ = high elo LOOOL
@@المرأةهيبيتيهوبيتيهيملكية to be fair. If you are in platinum I believe you are above 63% of the player base. Diamond puts you above 86%.
@@bigbrainedfish7859 2500 isnt high lol
everything is about right, but ball is easily b. and orisa is definitely a.
I may have been a bit hard on ball in hindsight and I will be moving him up next tier list after hearing alot of feedback on it but I have truly seen some horrendous balls in bronze and silver and alot of lower elo players struggle to understand his job. I would agree though next time I will move him up. Orisa is a very very good hero but I do find her alot stronger if you can get a tank duo to combo with. she’s an underrated pick for sure though
@@abyxis I can see this logic with Ball being dog shit in low elos and same with Orisa. Orisa is easy value if you learn to play around your cooldowns properly.
@@paoloalto that’s a fair point. You can be horrendous at any heroes. I just find bad balls to be virtually useless as far as getting value goes. Although he is gonna be moved up next time. F may have been a bit harsh.
no respect for Sym and Torb, lul list,
sym and torb are OK. I dont find them great in every situation so they get a knock for consistency. On certain maps and into certain comps though they can be very strong
I can clearly see that you have 0 game knowledge putting sombra and ball in f tier yikes
Have you ever watched a bronze or silver player try to play sombra or ball? A low elo player is much better off playing something they can more easily get impact on versus heroes that are harder to master and harder to get value without communication on. Ball is good but isn’t exactly easy to play and bad balls will feed ult charge and get very little value. And sombra in low elo is IMO not exactly worth playing when you aren’t going to be able to generally communicate who your hacking and when your engaging unless you know the people you are playing with are going to follow up on it.
Also just to put this out there. Jay3, flats, gameleap all put sombra extremely low for players trying to climb lower ladder. Until around 3000-3500 you are much better off playing something else. She could be d tier and C would be a stretch. At least for me. But at the end of the day you can play anybody you want and climb and it’s just my opinion. Cool doomfist POTG BTW. He’s the one dps I can’t play very well
Keep in mind that this would be a bunch of bronze silver and gold players who have no coordination. If this were like diamond plus then ball and sombra become very good
@@10_ow that is basically why I have them so low. I don’t think they are garbage heroes I just believe they are too complex for low elo players to get much value out of. Without team coordination sombra really suffers and a inexperienced ball will feed ult charge and not do a whole lot compared to somebody else who may be easier
It's videos like this that force bad players to stay bad. I stopped watching the moment you put Ball in F tier. Ball is the ultimate carry from under 500 bronze all the way up to 4700. You absolutely cannot deny that.
If a player knows how to play ball he can be one of the best carry heroes in the game. I did however take a lot of consideration into how difficult the hero is to play here and when watching low elo games you tend to see a lot of balls feeding ult charge and getting 0 value. The reality is any hero can carry if your great at them but I don’t see many great ball players when they are new to the game or not great at it. There are much easier heroes to get value on and pull off that perhaps less mechanically inclined or newer players can climb on.
Also. Pinned a comment a week or so ago saying I changed my mind about ball being that low after the feedback.
@@abyxis Just delete the video man. You are so far off the money with this it isn't funny. This is a joke
@@romannotre5863 lol. You can dislike the video and move on. Im not deleting anything. Welcome to the internet opinions everywhere and you don’t have to agree.
@@romannotre5863 also. In all your steams your a gold console tank? If ball is the ultimate carry then why haven’t you managed to get out of gold? Maybe something to think about.
hammond is meta rn though????
For sure a great Hammond can absolutely take over games and is a fantastic pick if you are good at him but for these I make them for low elo and Hammond can be very hard to master compared to other tanks. For me I tend to notice low elo hammonds don’t get a ton of value just due to how difficult he is to play.
@@abyxis oh sorry i didnt know this was a low elo tier list, if thats the case absolutely yes because most trash hammonds usually feed ult charge with their massive health
@@abyxis Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion but you say that ball lacks solo carry potential, and even if you do everything correct, you can still not win because ball needs team coordination. This is just false. Ball is probably the tank with one the highest solo-carry potential, because he does not rely on team support to carry (ofc he is better with team coordination, but so is every other character in the game), and can shred teams who do not know how to counter him, even if you are not a "master" at ball, basic fundamentals of timing shreds teams in lower elo's. Do you really think Moira has more solo-carry potential than ball? If your list is based on silver and below and needing some level of skill makes someone F tier then tracer should also be F tier.
@@المرأةهيبيتيهوبيتيهيملكية I do see what your saying and of course it is all just opinion. Perhaps putting ball so low is a bit harsh but it does of course go off of my personal experiences and watching bronze/silver players really struggle to understand their job as him since he is a bit different functionally than a lot of other tanks where as even a tracer not doing her job well can at least be doing something but I do see what your saying about skill to play and I may change that as a major factor for my next tier list. I am also new to making these and from my last one to this one I have taken some of this feedback and tried to work it in to my picks so I do appreciate this comment because stuff like this helps me improve and see other points of view.