Thank you Ragley for letting Steve do this comparison. Your brand is on a very short list of bikes I am looking at to purchase this year and it is because you let Steve/Hardtail Party do this review. It sounds like you have made a great set of bikes. Now it is time to make a better website. Thank you again Ragley. Thank you Steve.
I just emailed Ragley and let them know how thankful I am for them sending you out the two frames! Live the channel mate and keep up the great work :-)
I love this channel because here in Mexico full suspension bikes are kind of expensive, and the majority of the people can only afford a hardtail, i have to say that i learned a lot watching the videos, thank you hardtail party, saludos!
A great, unbiased review! When I swapped my steel hardtail frame for a titanium hardtail frame (no other changes) the difference in acceleration was significant. The weight change was 1.75 pounds, very similar to what you discovered with the Big Al. I'm not a weight weenie (I love my Surly Pugsley) but the new Vassago Optimus Ti frame is a dream.
I've only ever ridden hardtails, coming from a Roscoe 8 and ready to upgrade I was saving for a full sus. Then saw your review of the Big Al, found a 2020 frame for sale at my local Ragley importer and am now building up my dream hardtail instead of getting a full sus!! 150mm Lyrik ultimate fork (couldn't get a 140 Pike for love nor money), nukeproof horizon V2 wheels, 210mm OneUp V2 dropper, nukeproof horizon stem/seat collar/bars/grips/pedals, Deore 12 speed groupset but with an XT Shifter and an XTR chain, wtb light vigilante 2.5 grip on the front and 2.4 fast rolling trailboss on the back. I'm building it myself (first time building a bike!) And loving every minute. Can't wait to get it out on the trails! Your channel has kept me sticking with hardtails!!
Awesome! Full suspensions make a lot of sense for a lot of people, but your hardtail sounds great. I think you'll be surprised how much better it is than your roscoe 8.
@@hardtailparty I currently own a Roscoe 8 and have been curious about your thoughts of it. Is it the geo and the thru-axle that put you off? By the way, I’ve got an order in for a Honzo ESD at my local bike shop, excited for that to come in. Really enjoy your reviews!
@@hardtailparty I've finally finished building my Big Al!! The Magura MT5s have given me a little challenge with brake rub but almost perfect now. Only had time for an initial shakedown ride around the street but already it feels amazing!
Steve, I appreciate the effort it takes to make these videos. You do such a great job providing informative, non-biased and professional content. I watch and enjoy other MTB videos but your knowledge and ability to convey subtle nuances without any hint of condescension really set you apart in my opinion. You're providing entertainment and a service at the same time.
Thank you for the kind words. I try to be educational and a voice of reason in an industry saturated with fluff and marketing lingo that isn't always accurate.
damm man, those mid 90's Zaskars were so stiff, I dont know how you are still on it. Today's (more modern) aluminum frames feel nothing like those older aluminum frames. its night and day....hang that triple triangle on wall for art sake...also you may want to check out Fezzari's hardtail, killer aluminum build and great value
@@carravagio16 Thanks! I'm still on it, because it's literally the only thing I know. I guess when you progress on something this stiff. your riding style adjusts. I find myself riding in a slightly standing position over chunder. I'm rarely sitting. But you know what's awesome about it? CLIMBING. Short chain stays + stiff-assed frame = MOUNTAIN GOAT. When I finally arrive out of the stone age, I'll probably be doing A LOT of adjusting.
I just used Hardtail Party Steve's consultation service and I learned so much. Highly recommend. I didn't exactly listen (I got the Middle Child Steel {is real!} but it was great chatting with someone who knows as much about bikes as Steve does.
Thanks for the kind words David. It's been a pleasure working for you. In the end, it's all about making the best decision for you, and only you can decide that. I'm actually really glad to see you pick a bike you're so thrilled about. The MC is a fantastic choice. Enjoy!
Hey, thanks for the videos. Your videos are the main reason I am getting back in the Hardtail market and I am patiently waiting for the Ragley Big Al to come back into stock.
Long choose between Nukeproof Scout and Commencal meta ht am. But when I saw your review and the purple color of the frame, I ordered it. Can't wait to build my bike.
Shhhhhhh don't tell anyone Mr. Hardtail Party. I'm trying to buy a Big Al when they come out ;) But in all realness thank you for helping me so much. I'm new to mountain bikes but your channel alone taught me a ton!! I hope I can nab one of these bad boys when they're available!!
Great comparison; incredibly eye-opening even for those not yet in the market for such bikes. Steve your reviews are so much more genuine & honest compared to all the others featuring hardtails. All they do is a round up on the specs; but specs & numbers on paper alone mean little. The big issue is how do they ride? Does the frame beat you up; in what situations does one excel over the other, etc etc. THIS is where you Steve excel. THANKS.
Nice work, Steve! This is a great review - probably one of your best. Love how you communicated the nuanced differences between the two, rather than just "this one is lighter so better".
Thanks, i really try to explain the nuances in my video. I don't normally like shootouts where there's one winner, it all depends. But in this case, the big Al was noticeably more fun for me.
I’ve really enjoyed this series of videos. I have an mmmbop coming with a lot based around your video from last year. I contemplated the blue pig but with the way the bike market is now I was just glad to be able to snag a frame.
Order placed for Big Al as fortunately the geometry fits my needs... I was between Banshee, Nimble and Big Al as all of them provide good long stack values. But price and weight won it for the Big Al. Great content kuddos
This is a good way to compare them. I grew up on steel, and have had everything but Titanium. There's a weird pleasure to steel. It's cool you mentioned the Hanzo as it is another bike where you can get both in aluminum and steel.
Steve, you are so perfect with your analysis of steel vs steel vs aluminum vs aluminum. As you stated weight does influence the ride but also the comparison that two frames made with the same metal are not as similar as one would think. I’ve had 2 Niner Sir9 frames and then recently the quad butted Chromoly frame from Esker (the Hayduke) I agree that many steel frames are overbuilt and too heavy but also the way the tubes are shaped and butted, translates to that smoothness factor. Just because a frame is name branded and the lightest tubing available, doesn’t necessarily mean it will feel as good when compared with a builder that knows how to shape and weld in compliance with unique forming and bending to achieve better ride characteristics. The new aluminum frames have also improved tremendously and even though I don’t currently own an aluminum frame but I would consider one for a lighter build that I completely agree, weight matters when combined with the feel.
Hi Steve, great comparison! A lot of well addressed considerations. I know you didn't test the Marley, but when I first rode the Marley I had the same sensations you mentioned for the BigAl. I ended up using my Marley way more than my full susp enduro even at the bike park.
I have a 2018 Honzo ST. Vibration was so bad. I changed my 35mm diameter RF bars to a PNW 31.8 Bar n stem. HUGE difference. I feel the ST is supple but I came from an Ellsworth Sub22 frame. Great review! Beautiful bikes!
another excellent comparison. I don't even fit on the ragley bikes, but been following these reviews. good job bro! wish all the decent frames had XXL sizing for us 1%ers taller riders
Great comparison video and discussion on frame material. I've mainly ridden steel hardtails over the past 25+ years and they have been great (mainly lightweight 853 or similar tubesets). While I love my 2016 Kona Explosif, I'm on the lookout for something a little lighter to help as I get older - titanium or aluminum are what I'd like next. I'll keep the Big Al on my short list.
Lovely to see this type of comparison! Riding the Ragley Marley I may be a bit biast but it's so good. Have you gotten the opportunity to try any Pässilä Rämäkkä titanium hardtails?
Thanks for this review Steve, I currently have a Big Al 2021 frame in Candy Red in the process of being built up. Thanks for the content and reviews on your channel, big fan of it!
Another great review, you can’t judge a book by its cover or some bike frames by material there’re made from!! Another honest review really showing the differences and nuances that made the frames different. Great job, great presentation!!! 👍👍
This was a wonderful comparison. I messaged Dartmoor bikes to ask if they wanted to look into your channel and consider sending you a frame. As far as I know, they are very uncommon in the U.S.
That’s so interesting. I’d be curious how Ti compares. I went with steel as I ride everything including occasional downhill and bike park, and as I only have room for one bike I’d take the weight penalty to give me some extra confidence on decending.
So when I was shopping for a SC Chameleon, I typically would've pick carbon over aluminum. However, after watching your reviews of both, I went with aluminum for comfort reasons. I don't regret it. Aluminum doesn't get enough credit anymore.
I’d buy the aluminum SC Chameleon over the carbon. Nothing against carbon but I agree with Steve, aluminum is not like it was years ago and the newer aluminum frames today are so much better. Carbon also just seems more fragile and I would worry about being aggressive on a carbon hardtail.
@@hardtailparty Thanks Steve. I do love my Kona, but I realize that even through last year it was a bit of a dinosaur geometry-wise, and the Big Al will probably be a better CO bike. Will be out in Sedona end of May and will have to hit you up for ride recs!
I agree with what you said. I ride a Nukeproof scout 275, it rides awesome. But I never really rode a Hardtail as hard as I did on the Nukeproof. I used to have a Marin San Quentin 2 but forgot how the frame felt. But I just built up a 21’ Marin San Quentin and I can instantly tell the difference, the San Quentin frame is far more stiffer and on some things i can feel a chatter/vibration going through my legs from the rear wheel. I’ve never got that on my Nukeproof. It really makes me wonder how the scout compares to all the other aluminum ht’s
Hardtails are more fun. I rode a 2018 Fuel EX for years and it was ok but when I got back on a HT I was all grins. The snappy acceleration and handling is awesome. I’m also surprised that my fathom isn’t super harsh.
Yo, great 3 videos. I have an old 26 inch ragley mmh bob. Keep it up, I'm glad you found such a clear ranking for yourself. I'm right in the process of building my own steel hardtail and I'm using these two bikes as some geometry references. Thanks
Probably my experience could be useful for somebody: I owned Ragley Blue Pig for 2 years and it's an amazing bike, steel is real and etc. However it was heavy - 14kg for size small. 2 monthes ago i decided to switch frame to mmmbop. Also i've swapped the fork to Yari and as a result new bike weights just 13kg. So about the differences - as it was mentioned aluminium bike feels much lighter and faster, it jumps better, pumps with more energy. On the roots it's a little bit harsher comparing to steel blue pig BUT with mmmbop you need to work a little bit more (read - get more fun) and as a result I can say that for me mmmbop is faster than blue pig. The only disadvantage is that mmmbop looks not so tiny and "old school"ish as blue pig but I don't care anymore.
So I did not know about the consulting service at the time but made my own best educated guess based on many reviews and models and ended up preordering the Middle Child AL-V2 29GX build (with dropper) a few weeks ago. I of course used the 5% discount code (thanks!). I just couldn't justify the extra expense for the steel version for the amount and type of riding I will be doing... I not a big jumper and most of the trails I will be on are fairly smooth hard packed dirt, no big rocks or roots for the most part. Plus, since I haven't ridden in a quite a while, I need to invest in most of the required gear again. I'm 56 and haven't been on a bike in about six years (logistical reasons mostly). My last bike was a 2010 Cube Reaction (a very popular brand where I lived at the time) so I am sure this will big step up no matter what! It was also one of the brands I was really interested in where I could actually see when I will be (hopefully) be receiving my bike (beginning of May). It can't come quick enough!
@@hardtailparty Waiting on middlechild v2 review as well! Want to build up a lighter weight singlespeed then all me steel steeds without spending ti or carbon money. Wish the big Al had sliders. Hoping the middlechild will be compliant as well. I have always been steel, but you gave me confidence in alloy. I bought the lateset specialized chisel frame and built up. I can not believe how compliant the rear is. Thou I am mainly a singlespeeder and need to find that compliant alloy SS!
Good comparison. I read and hear all the time how weight doesn’t matter but being only 165 lbs and riding trails that are up and down for 3 or 4 hours I enjoy a lighter bike. Another thorough review Steve. Have any companies asked you for your input on designing a hardtail? I think you could offer a wealth of information to any manufacturer. Thanks again.
Frame compliance especially matters to lighter riders. My wife is very sensitive to frame stiffness at only 110lbs. She can tell a difference right away.
Great review Steve! Do you think your experience with the two frames would have been different if you had tested the steel frame first? Was your review skewed due to enthusiasm to compare the two?
No, I ride/review/demo several different bikes each week. There's a noticeable difference between the two. I realize people want the bigwig to win, but i truly prefer the big Al... by a healthy margin. The bigwig is a good bike, but it was a little asleep.
Love the channel and you are such a strong rider. Do you think you were riding fatigued on the steel? Do you think the steel might have felt 'more lively' had you built and rode that one first?
Good question. A lot goes on behind the scenes that people don't see. I ride 4-5 days a week, and I usually ride 10+ different hardtails a month. This was a short loop, and i wasn't fatigued. Some people think if I had ridden the bigwig first it would have been my favorite, but because I'm constantly switching between bikes on and off camera, I'm used to paying attention to the subtle differences between frames. A lot of people wanted the steel frame to come out on top in this comparison, but it simply wasn't as exciting as the big al.
Very interesting comparison! Now I'm glad I have chosen aluminium version of Qayron Spyro over the steel one. Even though the steel one has more agressive geo. Was thinking that the lighter one may be better, especially in climbs. I have enjoyed both reviews and this comparsion, Just great, thanks Steve.
Thank You for good work. I'm glad You took test with the same spec on both frames. I'm the meantime Big Wit has price reduced and is only a bit more expensive than Big Al 1.0 still having a better spec: groupset is 12p Deore/Slx over 11p Deore, shifter and Derailleur Slx over Deore, bigger front rotor. Rock Shox revelations RC vs Marzocchi Bomber Z2 stays for discussion. Would it be still better choice to choose Big Al over Big Wit in such case? Steel frameset is way more expensive (regular proie) what is the benefit of having one over alloy?
Appreciate your work mate. As someone who was getting back into riding this made the swap from my norco torrent frame to a big al easy. Well this video and the fact I bent the frame on the torrent lol.. Would love a video to get your thoughts on why you prefer a long reach. I’m 5’10-11 and went from an L torrent (480mm reach) to a M Big Al (440mm or a touch shorter because I’ve got a 150mm fork) and love it. Cheers mate keep it up
Really injoyed the comparison. Just had a question regarding how you mentioned a cushcore helping to obsorb the smaller vibrations. If you were to say put cushcore in both front and rear on the big al. Would that make it best of both worlds? Just a curious dualy rider.
Really quick question, how does the big al differ from the mmmbop. I am looking at buying a ragley frame and want to make sure I get the best choice for me.
I did the same thing using vintage mountain bikes Schwinn Homegrown vs Schwinn Moab reynolds steel. They both have the same geometry but one's steel and the other's aluminum. The Schwinn Homegrown is of course lighter and surprisingly compliant for aluminum. The Reynolds 525 steel Schwinn Moab is heavier but for longer distance riding it was much more comfortable. For racing the Schwinn Homegrown wins but long distance riding the Schwinn Moab is a great bike.
Wonderful comparison! I'm a heavier rider (6'2" 260 lb) with some wrist and arm issues from motorcycle wrecks, and the steel frame with its "micro-vibration" dampening effects sounds appealing. Do you think there's any advantage/disadvantage in this comparison when considering frame durability for a heavier rider like me? Thanks! Great channel. Sub'bed.
When I was frame shopping a year ago, I was disappointed to find that steel bike had gained so much weight since my old True Temper frame... it weighed 4.5 lbs, now they weigh in 1.5 to 2 lbs more, except the Cotic Soul, which weighed in around 4.5 lbs in my size. Of course the Soul has ghosted on us, its no more. Glad I have one, but I can't say that it rides better than a good Aluminum bike. Thanks for opening our eyes to good Alu bikes! On the topic of Ragley, maybe you can ask to review their Marley as well? It's a little less slack. It would be nice to see that bike reviewed. It looks like it could be such a great all rounder for many riders, if the frame is decently compliant as well.
Great review. In 2023 Ragley introduced Marley 29 (looks like Big Al 2022, just a little shorter stack) and did Big Al 2023 frame with 63.5 fork angle. Wondering, how different could be a ride on this new Big Al compared to discussed in this video?
As I'm looking for a hardtail as a #2 bike, this kind of compromise might be just the thing. It's mostly for bikepacking I want a hardtail, and even though that Stanton Sherpa is tempting it might be a bit too expensive even as a steel option. The option for custom color is a big thumbs up, and I would like a Mantis Green one as I saw in another youtube video. That was pretty tasty. Won't get anything till next year, so hopefully Ragley will do some witchcraft with their spray guns as well... We'll see...
Great to watch !! I wanted a ragley but couldn’t find any way around a $500 shipping charge :( so I ended up gettin an RSD middlechild in steel !! Unsure if I’m regretting the cromo decision, purchased in haste to grab that black friday deal…. I love steel road frames, all my trials bikes are aluminum- I’ve never owned a modern mountain bike before, still racing 26” wheeled alum/carbon bikes in Pisgah every year… your channel is amazing great work 🎉
The middle child is a great bike. The steel one is burly. It's not as supple as some steel frames, but it's still more supple than most aluminum frames. Enjoy.
Looking forward to your impressions on the rsd aluminum middle child and the latest sergeant I've been super pleased w my Peyto 853 custom frame, but 13 uears later my son is now big enuf to ride it and Dad needs to upgrade
I just purchased the big wig complete bike. Maybe when the big Al becomes more readily available I will purchase a frame and put all my parts on it and make a lighter build out of the big wig but we will see.
Thanks for the thorough review and comparison of these two. Can you do a comp between similar Aluminum & Ti frames. Thinking about getting a Sonder Ti and would like to know your thoughts...great channel!
I would like to see your review of the 2021 Giant Fathom with 27.5" wheels. The energetic feeling you described is so true about a lightweight hardtail, I would like to know if the Fathom has that.
Hardtails just have a far more connected feeling to the trail than full squishers. Nothing wrong with them, but coming from a BMX background, I can't "not" have that attached to the trail feel of a hardtail.
Excellent insight as always. I'd definitely go with a really good aluminum frame over steel. Maybe when I'm 70 and slow I'll want something different. Hopefully I'm still riding then. Lol Also hoping I made the right choice on carbon wheels for my Stache. I should get them next week. I think if I lived in Arizona I'd avoid carbon rims like the plague.
Thank you Ragley for letting Steve do this comparison. Your brand is on a very short list of bikes I am looking at to purchase this year and it is because you let Steve/Hardtail Party do this review. It sounds like you have made a great set of bikes. Now it is time to make a better website. Thank you again Ragley. Thank you Steve.
bluepig please
I just emailed Ragley and let them know how thankful I am for them sending you out the two frames! Live the channel mate and keep up the great work :-)
Thank you so much Marcus, emails like that really help. I'm super appreciative of Ragley for partnering on this one with me. It was a fun test.
So glad they hooked you up!
Ragley is my Favorite bike hands down & I get employee discounts at a shop that sells $15,000 bikes!
Thanks Ragley.
Big Al is what my old history teacher called me 😂
So far the 9 Dislikes are the people without a bike during covid wishing they had a Ragley!
I love this channel because here in Mexico full suspension bikes are kind of expensive, and the majority of the people can only afford a hardtail, i have to say that i learned a lot watching the videos, thank you hardtail party, saludos!
A great, unbiased review! When I swapped my steel hardtail frame for a titanium hardtail frame (no other changes) the difference in acceleration was significant. The weight change was 1.75 pounds, very similar to what you discovered with the Big Al. I'm not a weight weenie (I love my Surly Pugsley) but the new Vassago Optimus Ti frame is a dream.
I've only ever ridden hardtails, coming from a Roscoe 8 and ready to upgrade I was saving for a full sus. Then saw your review of the Big Al, found a 2020 frame for sale at my local Ragley importer and am now building up my dream hardtail instead of getting a full sus!! 150mm Lyrik ultimate fork (couldn't get a 140 Pike for love nor money), nukeproof horizon V2 wheels, 210mm OneUp V2 dropper, nukeproof horizon stem/seat collar/bars/grips/pedals, Deore 12 speed groupset but with an XT Shifter and an XTR chain, wtb light vigilante 2.5 grip on the front and 2.4 fast rolling trailboss on the back.
I'm building it myself (first time building a bike!) And loving every minute. Can't wait to get it out on the trails!
Your channel has kept me sticking with hardtails!!
Awesome! Full suspensions make a lot of sense for a lot of people, but your hardtail sounds great. I think you'll be surprised how much better it is than your roscoe 8.
@@hardtailparty I currently own a Roscoe 8 and have been curious about your thoughts of it. Is it the geo and the thru-axle that put you off? By the way, I’ve got an order in for a Honzo ESD at my local bike shop, excited for that to come in. Really enjoy your reviews!
@@thanehanson8369 yes, the geo as well as the qr axles are what I don't love.
@@hardtailparty I've finally finished building my Big Al!! The Magura MT5s have given me a little challenge with brake rub but almost perfect now.
Only had time for an initial shakedown ride around the street but already it feels amazing!
Steve, I appreciate the effort it takes to make these videos. You do such a great job providing informative, non-biased and professional content. I watch and enjoy other MTB videos but your knowledge and ability to convey subtle nuances without any hint of condescension really set you apart in my opinion. You're providing entertainment and a service at the same time.
Thank you for the kind words. I try to be educational and a voice of reason in an industry saturated with fluff and marketing lingo that isn't always accurate.
I’m riding a 1995 GT Zaskar LE, and I think I just found my next bike. Now only if production can meet demand!
damm man, those mid 90's Zaskars were so stiff, I dont know how you are still on it. Today's (more modern) aluminum frames feel nothing like those older aluminum frames. its night and day....hang that triple triangle on wall for art sake...also you may want to check out Fezzari's hardtail, killer aluminum build and great value
@@carravagio16 Thanks! I'm still on it, because it's literally the only thing I know. I guess when you progress on something this stiff. your riding style adjusts. I find myself riding in a slightly standing position over chunder. I'm rarely sitting.
But you know what's awesome about it? CLIMBING. Short chain stays + stiff-assed frame = MOUNTAIN GOAT.
When I finally arrive out of the stone age, I'll probably be doing A LOT of adjusting.
Now we need Ti vs. Steel vs. Aluminum! 🤣 This was such an intriguing series. You've got me wanting more apples to apples comparisons!
Yes! I was thinking the same thing
I just used Hardtail Party Steve's consultation service and I learned so much. Highly recommend. I didn't exactly listen (I got the Middle Child Steel {is real!} but it was great chatting with someone who knows as much about bikes as Steve does.
Thanks for the kind words David. It's been a pleasure working for you. In the end, it's all about making the best decision for you, and only you can decide that. I'm actually really glad to see you pick a bike you're so thrilled about. The MC is a fantastic choice. Enjoy!
I've looked forward to this video more than most things this year.
Thanks for watching.
Hey, thanks for the videos. Your videos are the main reason I am getting back in the Hardtail market and I am patiently waiting for the Ragley Big Al to come back into stock.
Welcome back to the party. Hardtails have come a LONG way.
Long choose between Nukeproof Scout and Commencal meta ht am. But when I saw your review and the purple color of the frame, I ordered it. Can't wait to build my bike.
"My Grin is bigger" - That says it all... Great review as always
Shhhhhhh don't tell anyone Mr. Hardtail Party. I'm trying to buy a Big Al when they come out ;) But in all realness thank you for helping me so much. I'm new to mountain bikes but your channel alone taught me a ton!! I hope I can nab one of these bad boys when they're available!!
Same here, I got the confidence to start my own build from the early build videos. If you haven’t watch I highly recommend.
@@HamboMTB Ill check those out for sure thanks!
Great comparison; incredibly eye-opening even for those not yet in the market for such bikes.
Steve your reviews are so much more genuine & honest compared to all the others featuring hardtails.
All they do is a round up on the specs; but specs & numbers on paper alone mean little.
The big issue is how do they ride? Does the frame beat you up; in what situations does one excel over the other, etc etc. THIS is where you Steve excel.
THANKS.
Nice work, Steve! This is a great review - probably one of your best. Love how you communicated the nuanced differences between the two, rather than just "this one is lighter so better".
Thanks, i really try to explain the nuances in my video. I don't normally like shootouts where there's one winner, it all depends. But in this case, the big Al was noticeably more fun for me.
Loved this comparison. Great review. So cool they sent you both and let you do a back to back test. That Big Al frame is a decent price too.
I’ve really enjoyed this series of videos. I have an mmmbop coming with a lot based around your video from last year. I contemplated the blue pig but with the way the bike market is now I was just glad to be able to snag a frame.
Order placed for Big Al as fortunately the geometry fits my needs... I was between Banshee, Nimble and Big Al as all of them provide good long stack values. But price and weight won it for the Big Al. Great content kuddos
I want a Big Al so badly now...haha. Thanks for the comparison.
Awesome comparison! I just ordered Big Al’s little 27.5 brother, the Marley 1.0. 130mm of travel but on 2.6 rubber. Excited to give it a go!
Been hanging out for this video for so long, awesome video Steve thanks heaps! Now to try and get my hands on one...
I don't even own a hardtail, but I love your channel. Keep up the great work!
I didn't own a hardtail when I first started watching the channel, I do now. Hahaha, good luck!
Thanks for watching! I hope my educational content is helpful to everyone, even those who don't ride hardtails.
This is the place to be if you are curious about adding one to your hanger.
I watch the channel without a hardtail and with no intention of buying one. But I just bought a Big Al frame to build up. Guess I joined the party!
After the Big Al has bee my 1st ever complete build & during the start of Covid I can't be more stoked on your comparison!
Love it!
This is a good way to compare them. I grew up on steel, and have had everything but Titanium. There's a weird pleasure to steel. It's cool you mentioned the Hanzo as it is another bike where you can get both in aluminum and steel.
Steve, you are so perfect with your analysis of steel vs steel vs aluminum vs aluminum. As you stated weight does influence the ride but also the comparison that two frames made with the same metal are not as similar as one would think. I’ve had 2 Niner Sir9 frames and then recently the quad butted Chromoly frame from Esker (the Hayduke) I agree that many steel frames are overbuilt and too heavy but also the way the tubes are shaped and butted, translates to that smoothness factor. Just because a frame is name branded and the lightest tubing available, doesn’t necessarily mean it will feel as good when compared with a builder that knows how to shape and weld in compliance with unique forming and bending to achieve better ride characteristics.
The new aluminum frames have also improved tremendously and even though I don’t currently own an aluminum frame but I would consider one for a lighter build that I completely agree, weight matters when combined with the feel.
100% agree.
Just waiting for my frame to show up... 😁
Hi Steve, great comparison! A lot of well addressed considerations. I know you didn't test the Marley, but when I first rode the Marley I had the same sensations you mentioned for the BigAl. I ended up using my Marley way more than my full susp enduro even at the bike park.
Awesome, i believe it. On paper, the marley looks like an incredible bike.
This is good to hear! I'm building up my Marley right now.
Lol, I got rid of my FS mtbs all together... now I own 6 hardtails 🤪 this is a great channel.
Cool review Steve! Would you go Big Al or Banshee Paradox?
Really good comparison Steve. One of your best reviews. Thanks.
Thanks Andy
I have a 2018 Honzo ST. Vibration was so bad. I changed my 35mm diameter RF bars to a PNW 31.8 Bar n stem. HUGE difference. I feel the ST is supple but I came from an Ellsworth Sub22 frame. Great review! Beautiful bikes!
Renthal supposedly engineers their bars to have the same amount of flex for both 35mm and 31.8mm sizes for that very reason... Just a fyi
I really like my Big Wig. I also live for chunky downhills. One big thing with steel is it is repairable vs aluminum.
another excellent comparison. I don't even fit on the ragley bikes, but been following these reviews. good job bro! wish all the decent frames had XXL sizing for us 1%ers taller riders
I wish they had an option for my larger friends.
Great comparison video and discussion on frame material. I've mainly ridden steel hardtails over the past 25+ years and they have been great (mainly lightweight 853 or similar tubesets). While I love my 2016 Kona Explosif, I'm on the lookout for something a little lighter to help as I get older - titanium or aluminum are what I'd like next. I'll keep the Big Al on my short list.
Lovely to see this type of comparison!
Riding the Ragley Marley I may be a bit biast but it's so good.
Have you gotten the opportunity to try any Pässilä Rämäkkä titanium hardtails?
I have a passila in for review. Stay tuned.
Love this comparison, great inputs 💪
Thanks for this review Steve, I currently have a Big Al 2021 frame in Candy Red in the process of being built up. Thanks for the content and reviews on your channel, big fan of it!
Congrats on the new bike, I have a feeling you're going to love it!
Another great review, you can’t judge a book by its cover or some bike frames by material there’re made from!! Another honest review really showing the differences and nuances that made the frames different. Great job, great presentation!!! 👍👍
Ha! "Aw, this again, okay we'll get up it." Such great descriptions
Really well articulated Steve! Greatly nuanced. Hope I can get my hands on a big al soon!
Steve is a wonderful person, your reviews was one of a kind...cheers
Thank you for the kind words.
Steve, what a great review! Thank you, much appreciated. Cheers
This was a wonderful comparison. I messaged Dartmoor bikes to ask if they wanted to look into your channel and consider sending you a frame. As far as I know, they are very uncommon in the U.S.
Thanks. I've reached out to them a handful of times and never got a reply. They look SUPER stiff, but we'll see.
That’s so interesting.
I’d be curious how Ti compares.
I went with steel as I ride everything including occasional downhill and bike park, and as I only have room for one bike I’d take the weight penalty to give me some extra confidence on decending.
So when I was shopping for a SC Chameleon, I typically would've pick carbon over aluminum. However, after watching your reviews of both, I went with aluminum for comfort reasons. I don't regret it. Aluminum doesn't get enough credit anymore.
Good call, the carbon chameleon has a much worse ride quality. But people are drawn to the bling factor of carbon.
@@hardtailparty Not gonna lie, I'm usually a sucker for that as well ;)
@@MrBig617 way to be strong.
I’d buy the aluminum SC Chameleon over the carbon. Nothing against carbon but I agree with Steve, aluminum is not like it was years ago and the newer aluminum frames today are so much better. Carbon also just seems more fragile and I would worry about being aggressive on a carbon hardtail.
@@hardmtnbiker Carbon is actually stronger than aluminum in most cases. However, with it being so stiff it usually ends up being a harsher ride.
Alright, you've convinced me to pick up the Big Al Frame and see if I like it more than my 2020 Honzo ST with the same build specs.
The biggest difference will be the geo, but you'll feel the ride quality difference too, as well as the weight.
@@hardtailparty Thanks Steve. I do love my Kona, but I realize that even through last year it was a bit of a dinosaur geometry-wise, and the Big Al will probably be a better CO bike. Will be out in Sedona end of May and will have to hit you up for ride recs!
This was fantastic, thanks Steve! I had been biased towards steel frames and this made me rethink that!
I agree with what you said. I ride a Nukeproof scout 275, it rides awesome. But I never really rode a Hardtail as hard as I did on the Nukeproof. I used to have a Marin San Quentin 2 but forgot how the frame felt. But I just built up a 21’ Marin San Quentin and I can instantly tell the difference, the San Quentin frame is far more stiffer and on some things i can feel a chatter/vibration going through my legs from the rear wheel. I’ve never got that on my Nukeproof. It really makes me wonder how the scout compares to all the other aluminum ht’s
Hardtails are more fun. I rode a 2018 Fuel EX for years and it was ok but when I got back on a HT I was all grins. The snappy acceleration and handling is awesome. I’m also surprised that my fathom isn’t super harsh.
Bigwig vs BFe Max ride quality and and fun factor?
Fantastic review! Great comparison of two very nice options!
Yo, great 3 videos. I have an old 26 inch ragley mmh bob. Keep it up, I'm glad you found such a clear ranking for yourself. I'm right in the process of building my own steel hardtail and I'm using these two bikes as some geometry references. Thanks
This is a 10/10 review you've got a new sub!
Awesome video mate, subbed. Only just discovered Ragley bikes a few days ago. They look so sick.
Probably my experience could be useful for somebody: I owned Ragley Blue Pig for 2 years and it's an amazing bike, steel is real and etc. However it was heavy - 14kg for size small. 2 monthes ago i decided to switch frame to mmmbop. Also i've swapped the fork to Yari and as a result new bike weights just 13kg. So about the differences - as it was mentioned aluminium bike feels much lighter and faster, it jumps better, pumps with more energy. On the roots it's a little bit harsher comparing to steel blue pig BUT with mmmbop you need to work a little bit more (read - get more fun) and as a result I can say that for me mmmbop is faster than blue pig. The only disadvantage is that mmmbop looks not so tiny and "old school"ish as blue pig but I don't care anymore.
So I did not know about the consulting service at the time but made my own best educated guess based on many reviews and models and ended up preordering the Middle Child AL-V2 29GX build (with dropper) a few weeks ago. I of course used the 5% discount code (thanks!).
I just couldn't justify the extra expense for the steel version for the amount and type of riding I will be doing... I not a big jumper and most of the trails I will be on are fairly smooth hard packed dirt, no big rocks or roots for the most part. Plus, since I haven't ridden in a quite a while, I need to invest in most of the required gear again.
I'm 56 and haven't been on a bike in about six years (logistical reasons mostly). My last bike was a 2010 Cube Reaction (a very popular brand where I lived at the time) so I am sure this will big step up no matter what! It was also one of the brands I was really interested in where I could actually see when I will be (hopefully) be receiving my bike (beginning of May). It can't come quick enough!
Congrats! The middle child is a super fun bike.
What would be your choice between the BIG AL and the Honzo ESD?
Love this comparison. Very helpful, learned a ton
Awesome comparison! The Big Al sounds like a lot of bike for the money. It would be interesting to see how it compares to an aluminum Middlechild.
I'm interested in comparing them as well. Hopefully i can get my hands on an aluminum v2 soon.
Or how it compares to a banshee paradox v3🤔
@@hardtailparty Waiting on middlechild v2 review as well! Want to build up a lighter weight singlespeed then all me steel steeds without spending ti or carbon money. Wish the big Al had sliders. Hoping the middlechild will be compliant as well. I have always been steel, but you gave me confidence in alloy. I bought the lateset specialized chisel frame and built up. I can not believe how compliant the rear is. Thou I am mainly a singlespeeder and need to find that compliant alloy SS!
@@chriss8375 the chisels are nice and comfy.
Another Fab Hardtail party special video 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 - Busting with Metaphors and honesty - Great 😊
I really liked this comparison series. Thanks! Keep up the great material your putting out!
Plus, one of them is orange... More great info! Thanks Steve!
For some reason my camera makes it look orange but it's really candy apple red.
@@hardtailparty well, that works too! Love your show, and Dusty Betty’s too!
Love this review..Big AL is on my short list of frames. List 1: Big AL 2: Big AL
Good comparison. I read and hear all the time how weight doesn’t matter but being only 165 lbs and riding trails that are up and down for 3 or 4 hours I enjoy a lighter bike. Another thorough review Steve. Have any companies asked you for your input on designing a hardtail? I think you could offer a wealth of information to any manufacturer. Thanks again.
Frame compliance especially matters to lighter riders. My wife is very sensitive to frame stiffness at only 110lbs. She can tell a difference right away.
Definitely have my eye on a Big Al for my next bike.
Would love to see a 2021 Giant Fathom review. That bike looks promising as well.
Haha, I was like the Big Wig at school but I definitely want that Big Al frame
Great review Steve! Do you think your experience with the two frames would have been different if you had tested the steel frame first? Was your review skewed due to enthusiasm to compare the two?
No, I ride/review/demo several different bikes each week. There's a noticeable difference between the two. I realize people want the bigwig to win, but i truly prefer the big Al... by a healthy margin. The bigwig is a good bike, but it was a little asleep.
Great comparison review!
Fantastic honest review. Thank you. God bless.
Thanks, Big Al rocks.
Super bike on my home trail
Love the channel and you are such a strong rider. Do you think you were riding fatigued on the steel? Do you think the steel might have felt 'more lively' had you built and rode that one first?
Good question. A lot goes on behind the scenes that people don't see. I ride 4-5 days a week, and I usually ride 10+ different hardtails a month. This was a short loop, and i wasn't fatigued. Some people think if I had ridden the bigwig first it would have been my favorite, but because I'm constantly switching between bikes on and off camera, I'm used to paying attention to the subtle differences between frames.
A lot of people wanted the steel frame to come out on top in this comparison, but it simply wasn't as exciting as the big al.
Very interesting comparison! Now I'm glad I have chosen aluminium version of Qayron Spyro over the steel one. Even though the steel one has more agressive geo. Was thinking that the lighter one may be better, especially in climbs. I have enjoyed both reviews and this comparsion, Just great, thanks Steve.
Thank You for good work. I'm glad You took test with the same spec on both frames.
I'm the meantime Big Wit has price reduced and is only a bit more expensive than Big Al 1.0 still having a better spec: groupset is 12p Deore/Slx over 11p Deore, shifter and Derailleur Slx over Deore, bigger front rotor. Rock Shox revelations RC vs Marzocchi Bomber Z2 stays for discussion. Would it be still better choice to choose Big Al over Big Wit in such case?
Steel frameset is way more expensive (regular proie) what is the benefit of having one over alloy?
"Big Wig" best punk band outta New Jersey!
Appreciate your work mate. As someone who was getting back into riding this made the swap from my norco torrent frame to a big al easy.
Well this video and the fact I bent the frame on the torrent lol..
Would love a video to get your thoughts on why you prefer a long reach. I’m 5’10-11 and went from an L torrent (480mm reach) to a M Big Al (440mm or a touch shorter because I’ve got a 150mm fork) and love it.
Cheers mate keep it up
Really injoyed the comparison. Just had a question regarding how you mentioned a cushcore helping to obsorb the smaller vibrations. If you were to say put cushcore in both front and rear on the big al. Would that make it best of both worlds? Just a curious dualy rider.
I think that Big Al frame color is gorgeous. Walks the line between red and orange.
It's really a bright candy apple red in person. I don't know why my cameras make it look copper/orange.
Really quick question, how does the big al differ from the mmmbop. I am looking at buying a ragley frame and want to make sure I get the best choice for me.
I did the same thing using vintage mountain bikes Schwinn Homegrown vs Schwinn Moab reynolds steel. They both have the same geometry but one's steel and the other's aluminum. The Schwinn Homegrown is of course lighter and surprisingly compliant for aluminum. The Reynolds 525 steel Schwinn Moab is heavier but for longer distance riding it was much more comfortable. For racing the Schwinn Homegrown wins but long distance riding the Schwinn Moab is a great bike.
I always thought the homegrowns were steel. You learn something new every day.
what length fork did you test these with?
This Review only aplies to this 2 specific frames, isn't?
Wonderful comparison! I'm a heavier rider (6'2" 260 lb) with some wrist and arm issues from motorcycle wrecks, and the steel frame with its "micro-vibration" dampening effects sounds appealing. Do you think there's any advantage/disadvantage in this comparison when considering frame durability for a heavier rider like me? Thanks! Great channel. Sub'bed.
I always recommend fill suspensions for people with wrist/joint damage.
When I was frame shopping a year ago, I was disappointed to find that steel bike had gained so much weight since my old True Temper frame... it weighed 4.5 lbs, now they weigh in 1.5 to 2 lbs more, except the Cotic Soul, which weighed in around 4.5 lbs in my size. Of course the Soul has ghosted on us, its no more. Glad I have one, but I can't say that it rides better than a good Aluminum bike. Thanks for opening our eyes to good Alu bikes! On the topic of Ragley, maybe you can ask to review their Marley as well? It's a little less slack. It would be nice to see that bike reviewed. It looks like it could be such a great all rounder for many riders, if the frame is decently compliant as well.
Great review and it would be interesting to see them ridden in comparison....
See the review videos of each one.
Great review.
In 2023 Ragley introduced Marley 29 (looks like Big Al 2022, just a little shorter stack) and did Big Al 2023 frame with 63.5 fork angle. Wondering, how different could be a ride on this new Big Al compared to discussed in this video?
I wonder the same thing. Ragleys parent company is in financial trouble. I hope they stick around.
As I'm looking for a hardtail as a #2 bike, this kind of compromise might be just the thing. It's mostly for bikepacking I want a hardtail, and even though that Stanton Sherpa is tempting it might be a bit too expensive even as a steel option. The option for custom color is a big thumbs up, and I would like a Mantis Green one as I saw in another youtube video. That was pretty tasty.
Won't get anything till next year, so hopefully Ragley will do some witchcraft with their spray guns as well... We'll see...
Great to watch !! I wanted a ragley but couldn’t find any way around a $500 shipping charge :( so I ended up gettin an RSD middlechild in steel !! Unsure if I’m regretting the cromo decision, purchased in haste to grab that black friday deal…. I love steel road frames, all my trials bikes are aluminum- I’ve never owned a modern mountain bike before, still racing 26” wheeled alum/carbon bikes in Pisgah every year… your channel is amazing great work 🎉
The middle child is a great bike. The steel one is burly. It's not as supple as some steel frames, but it's still more supple than most aluminum frames. Enjoy.
@@hardtailparty Cheers... I couldn't go away from the beautiful Aubergine color, my power color :) Have a great one ❤️💪✌️
Do you remember if the headset cup were already installed? Or you had to use a press to install it in order to install the headset?
I don't remember, sorry.
Looking forward to your impressions on the rsd aluminum middle child and the latest sergeant
I've been super pleased w my Peyto 853 custom frame, but 13 uears later my son is now big enuf to ride it and Dad needs to upgrade
I just purchased the big wig complete bike. Maybe when the big Al becomes more readily available I will purchase a frame and put all my parts on it and make a lighter build out of the big wig but we will see.
Thanks for the thorough review and comparison of these two. Can you do a comp between similar Aluminum & Ti frames. Thinking about getting a Sonder Ti and would like to know your thoughts...great channel!
Ti rides closer to steel than aluminum, bit it's usually looter than both. Sadly, it's also usually less strong.
I would like to see your review of the 2021 Giant Fathom with 27.5" wheels. The energetic feeling you described is so true about a lightweight hardtail, I would like to know if the Fathom has that.
I have a Rocky Mountain 2010 flatline park bike that uses 7005 aluminum.
Is it comparable to heat treated cromoly in terms of strength?
Great review, any plans to review an Orange P7/Crush?
As someone who bought a Ragely Piglet for Florida trails. This (slightly)triggers me though I did just buy it for the paint job haha.
Also watch out for the metal cable holders. They cut my knee open. Not a good idea on a bike
Hey, if you bought it for looks, mission accomplished. It's a rad looking bike.
Hardtails just have a far more connected feeling to the trail than full squishers. Nothing wrong with them, but coming from a BMX background, I can't "not" have that attached to the trail feel of a hardtail.
Excellent insight as always. I'd definitely go with a really good aluminum frame over steel. Maybe when I'm 70 and slow I'll want something different. Hopefully I'm still riding then. Lol
Also hoping I made the right choice on carbon wheels for my Stache. I should get them next week. I think if I lived in Arizona I'd avoid carbon rims like the plague.
Have you reviewed the on one hello Dave ?