I want to say it is unbelievable that something like this- not only could happen -but that it could be known by leadership and mishandled so atrociously. But I, too, am acquainted with this kind of negligence in UPC pastors, elders, and boards -and the fault without question, lies squarely with these men in trusted positions, and it would seem with every other adult in this dear lady’s life. This is jaw dropping. My family also learned through a very traumatic experience that the Word of God is not the authority in the UPC corporately, nor in the lives of many who hold positions of leadership. For Debbie, the sexual abuse was horrific enough but to have every expectation of help dashed, where help should have been is unconscionable. My heart goes out to her. I hope and pray that she will find healing and renewal in Christ. HE is faithful, and I can say that trusting in Him in the darkest of places and circumstances brings peace that really does surpass our human understanding.
My husband and I went to Debbie's UPC in Madison, WI during this time. We know for a fact this abuse was happening. At the time being in our 20's it was very subtle. Two other older men abusing girls between 12 and 17 was happening (at least) For me it was like nooooo that can't be happening. One man was the best man at our wedding. We didn't know because he used girls our age as a front. Truly, when I look back there were so many red flags but one's mind sometimes can't even believe this could be happening. We left the UPC in 1992 after trying to report other abuse to grant but he refused to talk to us or respond to a certified letter I sent involving another local pastor sister church. What you should know is Debbie is so accurate about everything. Her details are spot on. Because of this alone I believe every word she is saying when I hear this interview or read blogs. My husband and I are so thankful we had the courage to leave this cult. It has been a journey and even after 28 years I find mysef having regrets for attending this church for 8 years. Thank you for the interview, thank you for speaking up.
Debbie your story has been SO vital to helping people understand what is and has been going on, your never pressuresome or aggresive, you are such a bright star in this world for so many of us. We love you!
When i was 15 I kid you not we had an evangelist come to our church, he was probably in his late 20s. And I will never forget he messaged me on Facebook and I remember talking to him for several months not even thinking about the age difference. Later on one of my friends told me he found out that guy would go from church to church and try "talking" to the most attractive girl at each of them. I literally just remembered all that now...its been 11 years since that and it was never inappropriate minus the fact that he was a GROWN MAN and I was a kid. Wow I literally just remembered that while listening to you guys talk. So crazy Edit: the UPCI church i grew up in was also pastured by the district superintendent
I am so sorry for what happened to you, Debbie! 💔💔 How situations like yours have been mishandled is just heartbreaking and so hurtful, in the long run! Things need to change. Transparency is absolutely crucial!! Thank-you for having the courage to share your story!! You are not alone! 💗
I am so sorry that Debbie had to go through this! All I know to say right now is how angry it makes me!! I hope she has had counseling for it! There are some evil people in these churches!!
I have been in therapy on and off throughout my adult life. Right now I am doing EMDR therapy which is supposed to be really good for trauma. It has helped to have a great survivor community around me and to also realize that I am not the only one.
This is so sad. But hey, as long as they wear the UPC costume your Holy and can do whatever you want! Well, it's not that easy, this is still crimes against children and I pray that these leaders will be charged and justice will be served in this life..
Connie Devor Unfortunately here in the state of Wisconsin we have a clergy loophole. This means that clergy are not responsible for reporting these sorts of crimes. I have been working to get this law changed. My case is outside the statue of limitations but I would also like to see that law changed as well. I cannot begin to explain how upsetting it is to know that your abuser is out there pastoring a church and there is nothing you can do about it.
Since Debbie states that she is half white, half Mexican, why would her mom be against inter-racial marriage, since she obviously did it herself? & a minister should never, ever blab confidential info, to his family. He should have called the police, & told her mom, himself. The pedophile's wife, should have apologized to Debbie, for the abuse, & putting her in that position, instead of blaming her. A good thing he was caught, with her sister, which is probably why Debbie's mom, cooled off, knowing it wasn't Debbie's fault. Pedophiles are slick, grooming kids to make things seem normal.
I've done the A.C.E. program for a while. I didnt mind being in private school but, what your guest is saying is true. If you didn't finish your work you did get demerits and detention. Also, if it happened 3 times, you got paddled. I did get paddled for not being able to finish my work. I struggled with some topics. I also could not go on a field trip for not completing at least 15 paces in a quarter. I almost had it one time but I still could not go on a field trip because I couldn't memorize the scripture. I just couldn't get it. I now know that I have a processing disability. I foumd out while going to college. This was a hard truth because I now know that I could have been spared some punishments. But no I me knew or tried to figure this out. I was asked as a disobedient child. And It really wasn't that way. I was a curious and wanted solid answers, I didnt always get them. I was also being physically.abused at home at times by my dad. And going to.school made it harder because they didnt dig deeper to see what the root of the problem was instead of just assuming, oh she's bad! Thank God he has helped me and I've come along way. I also realized that the A.C.E. program works for some children's learning style, and for others it does not. One size does not fit all. I had to make adjustments for my own kids. I'm glad I did.
I'm so sorry that happened to you. I was in ACC too. Hated it. So much neglect. My older sister got treated like you. I was so scared I kept my head down. I found what we were learning uninteresting. I was a curious child though so you'd find me at the library down the street from my house. The librarians were the best. No judgement on what I was reading.
There is also issues still w the way the UPC claims they have dealt w these issues. For instance though Debbie's predator was removed from the UPC, he still minister's a church that is not UPC but has very simular teachings, and during UPC events where they are staying open to the public and get then 'saved" etc., He would still come to those events, he did photography for the church phone book, etc. which is how I met him years after Debbie had left, as many do. Just this past month a minister who was sent to another UPC church mainly due to a possible child assult charge, revisited the original church and even preached that day as if nothing ever happened. Then I recall attendibg family camp and they take volunteers to assist in the childrens church, and allthey required to deal w previous predator issues, was to have you sign a form as a volunteer that aays your not a child molestor and have no crimanal issues. They dis NOT do the background check, they only use that form if a child comes forward and there is a criminal charge, that does not deter the behavior at all to protect these kids.
Im so so sorry this happened to u my heart breaks for you. God bless you so much and heal u completley in all areas of your soul ...thank u for being so brave to tell your story❤this is something the upc or even other kinds of churches need to be aware of
In reference to the “loopholes” accusation toward the end, such loopholes are used frequently in UPC/Apostolic churches to bypass any law that might possibly condemn them. It’s an extremely narcissistic/manipulative spirit rampant in such churches.
My heart seriously breaks for these sort of demonic occurrences for people who truly love God. Being born and raised UPC, I’ve seen too much dirt in that cult.
In all of the years that I was in the UPC I never new of an abusive case such as this, thank God. What I have seen is men with sexual perversions committing adultery and being “counseled” back into ministerial positions of authority. While I do believe in forgiveness and people starting over and working through situations, I have a hard time with the placing of these men back into ministry. Most of these men are symptomatically narcissistic and placing them on a leave of absence for a couple of years while they behave themselves under supervision is not addressing the core of the problem. People have been programmed to fear these men and place them above everyone else, exonerating them from any accountability for their actions or crimes. Though I am sorry for what these victims have suffered and can only imagine the PTSD they experience, as I have experienced it on a much smaller scale, it has made them very effective in their testimony and the love of Christ. There are many people like me that gain strength and wisdom from this channel and from the quality of people courageous enough to expose darkness. May God help each of these people turn their trauma into victory glorifying Him.
Mormons encourage youth to get as much education as possible, & young men are encouraged to serve a 2 year mission, then finish a 4 year University. Many don't go to work for another member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, but if opportunity presents itself, while finishing college, or saving for a mission, we do it. Jesus is the light of the world, but the Glory of God is intelligence, & women are encouraged to pursue college, b/c a mother is a teacher of many.
I was raised in the upc church i was abused by the pastor !!! Him cussing at me i did go too the ace. School I have so many story's like this woman its crazy
I did A.C.E and I never noticed any issues , but my school did change the curriculum and I wonder if that's why. The teachers were not prejudice at all.
You have to question any organization where the leader finds it’s wrong for you to we are clear nail polish, but in my situation at 15 Years old I was taken into the pastors office and introduced to a 35-year-old man who is the son of another minister and told I was going to marry him. And I did, and was stuck in abusive relationship for 9 1/2 years
Oh my word!!! I don't even know what to say! I'm so sorry for this...it was sexual abuse. My heart breaks for you. I hope you are out of that relationship now and you've been able to receive some counselling to help you start healing from that level of trauma.
@@ResponsibleFaith your comment just posted as I’m watching another one of your videos, yes I got out of that “relationship” and have an amazing life now. I’m amazed at watching your videos, finding out how many people have gone through the same kind of situation that I went through. Being a fourth generation member of the UPC I’m proud of the fact that I get out from under it and now I have my own walk with God. Thank you for everything that you do.
Wow Wow Wow I just watch this video, it’s so disturbing, who in their right mind would give permission to a 12-year-old to go anywhere alone with someone much older specially married. I have a 12-year-old and I watch my daughter like a hawk and I belong to a UPC apostolic Pentecostal church, all the prayer that parents do it’s to be watchful for everything. One thing I have to say your pastor is nothing but a jerk, And every single one from the church who didn’t help YOU!!! They’re going to answer to God. It’s never the Childs fault it’s always the adult. What you need to do, is to take the pastor and anybody anybody who didn’t help you including the molester guy Who abuse you!!! make them pay!!!!
Oh my goodness I can not believe the similarities to your videos to the church we came out of.We went to a independent Pentacostal Holiness church(trinitarian).It sounds like the only difference basically was the oneness doctrine.The control issues, education, cult like things all of that are the same.
I went to a 1st year ACE school. Same model. I'll be honest, we checked out own work. I cheated my whole way through my 3rd year which would have been my 11th grade and graduated.
Yup my brother and I did it 2 years and our grades dropped so my parents switched us to a college preparatory school. My ex husband did his senior year in 4 months due to the program. The teacher would tell us what to do but basically everyone just sat in class talking and playing around. The work wasn’t checked so people just scribbled in whatever they wanted.
For additional information about Debbie's story, see blogs.spiritualabuse.org/2018/02/16/a-pastor-who-should-not-have-been-part-1/ as well as other articles in that series.
Yes it was when I went too, far to broad of an age range for Youth focused events in my opinion. Most other churches have the cut off age for "youth group" be 18yrs and then have a college and career group that serves the older young people.
Unfortunately the statute of limitations has passed for her to do anything. One thing she is doing (with other victims in her state) is lobbying government to have that law changed...the statute of limitations removed and to make clergy mandatory reporters.
@@ResponsibleFaith July 15, 2021 Emily Calderon is currently being sued by a UPCI church, the pastor and pastor's dad for half a million dollar. Three against one. She called out a minister on social media, soon after one victim Meghan Robles came out on RUclips with her story July 2021. The church and minister didn't think this girl was going to speak she went as far as tic tok and went viral let's help spread the story.
I want to say it is unbelievable that something like this- not only could happen -but that it could be known by leadership and mishandled so atrociously. But I, too, am acquainted with this kind of negligence in UPC pastors, elders, and boards -and the fault without question, lies squarely with these men in trusted positions, and it would seem with every other adult in this dear lady’s life. This is jaw dropping. My family also learned through a very traumatic experience that the Word of God is not the authority in the UPC corporately, nor in the lives of many who hold positions of leadership. For Debbie, the sexual abuse was horrific enough but to have every expectation of help dashed, where help should have been is unconscionable. My heart goes out to her. I hope and pray that she will find healing and renewal in Christ. HE is faithful, and I can say that trusting in Him in the darkest of places and circumstances brings peace that really does surpass our human understanding.
It is a lot of the woman too. They are submissive to the men and they use that constantly.
My husband and I went to Debbie's UPC in Madison, WI during this time. We know for a fact this abuse was happening. At the time being in our 20's it was very subtle. Two other older men abusing girls between 12 and 17 was happening (at least) For me it was like nooooo that can't be happening. One man was the best man at our wedding. We didn't know because he used girls our age as a front. Truly, when I look back there were so many red flags but one's mind sometimes can't even believe this could be happening. We left the UPC in 1992 after trying to report other abuse to grant but he refused to talk to us or respond to a certified letter I sent involving another local pastor sister church.
What you should know is Debbie is so accurate about everything. Her details are spot on. Because of this alone I believe every word she is saying when I hear this interview or read blogs. My husband and I are so thankful we had the courage to leave this cult. It has been a journey and even after 28 years I find mysef having regrets for attending this church for 8 years. Thank you for the interview, thank you for speaking up.
Thanks for your support.
Debbie your story has been SO vital to helping people understand what is and has been going on, your never pressuresome or aggresive, you are such a bright star in this world for so many of us. We love you!
I love you all!❤️
When i was 15 I kid you not we had an evangelist come to our church, he was probably in his late 20s. And I will never forget he messaged me on Facebook and I remember talking to him for several months not even thinking about the age difference. Later on one of my friends told me he found out that guy would go from church to church and try "talking" to the most attractive girl at each of them. I literally just remembered all that now...its been 11 years since that and it was never inappropriate minus the fact that he was a GROWN MAN and I was a kid. Wow I literally just remembered that while listening to you guys talk. So crazy
Edit: the UPCI church i grew up in was also pastured by the district superintendent
Sounds very familiar to me.
I am so sorry for what happened to you, Debbie! 💔💔
How situations like yours have been mishandled is just heartbreaking and so hurtful, in the long run! Things need to change. Transparency is absolutely crucial!!
Thank-you for having the courage to share your story!! You are not alone! 💗
Thank you for your courage in sharing your story.
I am so sorry that Debbie had to go through this! All I know to say right now is how angry it makes me!! I hope she has had counseling for it! There are some evil people in these churches!!
I have been in therapy on and off throughout my adult life. Right now I am doing EMDR therapy which is supposed to be really good for trauma. It has helped to have a great survivor community around me and to also realize that I am not the only one.
@@DebbieMcNulty Debbie, that is great to hear!
This is so sad. But hey, as long as they wear the UPC costume your Holy and can do whatever you want! Well, it's not that easy, this is still crimes against children and I pray that these leaders will be charged and justice will be served in this life..
Connie Devor Unfortunately here in the state of Wisconsin we have a clergy loophole. This means that clergy are not responsible for reporting these sorts of crimes. I have been working to get this law changed. My case is outside the statue of limitations but I would also like to see that law changed as well. I cannot begin to explain how upsetting it is to know that your abuser is out there pastoring a church and there is nothing you can do about it.
@@DebbieMcNulty I wish you all the best! I trust that they will pass a Bill that will bring these criminals to justice!
I hope you get it changed is there a petition to sign?
Since Debbie states that she is half white, half Mexican, why would her mom be against inter-racial marriage, since she obviously did it herself? & a minister should never, ever blab confidential info, to his family. He should have called the police, & told her mom, himself. The pedophile's wife, should have apologized to Debbie, for the abuse, & putting her in that position, instead of blaming her. A good thing he was caught, with her sister, which is probably why Debbie's mom, cooled off, knowing it wasn't Debbie's fault. Pedophiles are slick, grooming kids to make things seem normal.
This is so sad and it breaks my heart. I just don’t understand what is wrong with these people who don’t bring these hammer down on the nasty men
It’s honestly scary how much I can relate to this. It’s heartbreaking, but, I’m glad to hear her story. It makes me feel less alone. Thank you Debbie.
Thank you guys for standing up for what's right in Jesus name.
I've done the A.C.E. program for a while. I didnt mind being in private school but, what your guest is saying is true. If you didn't finish your work you did get demerits and detention. Also, if it happened 3 times, you got paddled. I did get paddled for not being able to finish my work. I struggled with some topics. I also could not go on a field trip for not completing at least 15 paces in a quarter. I almost had it one time but I still could not go on a field trip because I couldn't memorize the scripture. I just couldn't get it. I now know that I have a processing disability. I foumd out while going to college. This was a hard truth because I now know that I could have been spared some punishments. But no I me knew or tried to figure this out. I was asked as a disobedient child. And It really wasn't that way. I was a curious and wanted solid answers, I didnt always get them. I was also being physically.abused at home at times by my dad. And going to.school made it harder because they didnt dig deeper to see what the root of the problem was instead of just assuming, oh she's bad! Thank God he has helped me and I've come along way. I also realized that the A.C.E. program works for some children's learning style, and for others it does not. One size does not fit all. I had to make adjustments for my own kids. I'm glad I did.
I'm so sorry that happened to you. I was in ACC too. Hated it. So much neglect. My older sister got treated like you. I was so scared I kept my head down. I found what we were learning uninteresting. I was a curious child though so you'd find me at the library down the street from my house. The librarians were the best. No judgement on what I was reading.
There is also issues still w the way the UPC claims they have dealt w these issues. For instance though Debbie's predator was removed from the UPC, he still minister's a church that is not UPC but has very simular teachings, and during UPC events where they are staying open to the public and get then 'saved" etc., He would still come to those events, he did photography for the church phone book, etc. which is how I met him years after Debbie had left, as many do. Just this past month a minister who was sent to another UPC church mainly due to a possible child assult charge, revisited the original church and even preached that day as if nothing ever happened. Then I recall attendibg family camp and they take volunteers to assist in the childrens church, and allthey required to deal w previous predator issues, was to have you sign a form as a volunteer that aays your not a child molestor and have no crimanal issues. They dis NOT do the background check, they only use that form if a child comes forward and there is a criminal charge, that does not deter the behavior at all to protect these kids.
Im so so sorry this happened to u my heart breaks for you. God bless you so much and heal u completley in all areas of your soul ...thank u for being so brave to tell your story❤this is something the upc or even other kinds of churches need to be aware of
In reference to the “loopholes” accusation toward the end, such loopholes are used frequently in UPC/Apostolic churches to bypass any law that might possibly condemn them. It’s an extremely narcissistic/manipulative spirit rampant in such churches.
My heart seriously breaks for these sort of demonic occurrences for people who truly love God. Being born and raised UPC, I’ve seen too much dirt in that cult.
In all of the years that I was in the UPC I never new of an abusive case such as this, thank God. What I have seen is men with sexual perversions committing adultery and being “counseled” back into ministerial positions of authority. While I do believe in forgiveness and people starting over and working through situations, I have a hard time with the placing of these men back into ministry. Most of these men are symptomatically narcissistic and placing them on a leave of absence for a couple of years while they behave themselves under supervision is not addressing the core of the problem. People have been programmed to fear these men and place them above everyone else, exonerating them from any accountability for their actions or crimes. Though I am sorry for what these victims have suffered and can only imagine the PTSD they experience, as I have experienced it on a much smaller scale, it has made them very effective in their testimony and the love of Christ. There are many people like me that gain strength and wisdom from this channel and from the quality of people courageous enough to expose darkness. May God help each of these people turn their trauma into victory glorifying Him.
Mormons encourage youth to get as much education as possible, & young men are encouraged to serve a 2 year mission, then finish a 4 year University. Many don't go to work for another member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, but if opportunity presents itself, while finishing college, or saving for a mission, we do it. Jesus is the light of the world, but the Glory of God is intelligence, & women are encouraged to pursue college, b/c a mother is a teacher of many.
I was raised in the upc church i was abused by the pastor !!! Him cussing at me i did go too the ace. School I have so many story's like this woman its crazy
I'm sorry to hear that Brian.
🙏🏾
I did A.C.E and I never noticed any issues , but my school did change the curriculum and I wonder if that's why. The teachers were not prejudice at all.
You have to question any organization where the leader finds it’s wrong for you to we are clear nail polish, but in my situation at 15 Years old I was taken into the pastors office and introduced to a 35-year-old man who is the son of another minister and told I was going to marry him. And I did, and was stuck in abusive relationship for 9 1/2 years
Oh my word!!! I don't even know what to say! I'm so sorry for this...it was sexual abuse. My heart breaks for you. I hope you are out of that relationship now and you've been able to receive some counselling to help you start healing from that level of trauma.
@@ResponsibleFaith your comment just posted as I’m watching another one of your videos, yes I got out of that “relationship” and have an amazing life now. I’m amazed at watching your videos, finding out how many people have gone through the same kind of situation that I went through. Being a fourth generation member of the UPC I’m proud of the fact that I get out from under it and now I have my own walk with God. Thank you for everything that you do.
🥺🙏🏾
I just wanted to say that Debbie is my doppelganger. Even my husband and daughter agree.
Wow Wow Wow I just watch this video, it’s so disturbing, who in their right mind would give permission to a 12-year-old to go anywhere alone with someone much older specially married. I have a 12-year-old and I watch my daughter like a hawk and I belong to a UPC apostolic Pentecostal church, all the prayer that parents do it’s to be watchful for everything. One thing I have to say your pastor is nothing but a jerk, And every single one from the church who didn’t help YOU!!! They’re going to answer to God. It’s never the Childs fault it’s always the adult. What you need to do, is to take the pastor and anybody anybody who didn’t help you including the molester guy Who abuse you!!! make them pay!!!!
Oh my goodness I can not believe the similarities to your videos to the church we came out of.We went to a independent Pentacostal Holiness church(trinitarian).It sounds like the only difference basically was the oneness doctrine.The control issues, education, cult like things all of that are the same.
This is so sad! The church need to do better and these predators we’d to go to jail
😥
I went to a 1st year ACE school. Same model. I'll be honest, we checked out own work. I cheated my whole way through my 3rd year which would have been my 11th grade and graduated.
Yup my brother and I did it 2 years and our grades dropped so my parents switched us to a college preparatory school. My ex husband did his senior year in 4 months due to the program. The teacher would tell us what to do but basically everyone just sat in class talking and playing around. The work wasn’t checked so people just scribbled in whatever they wanted.
For additional information about Debbie's story, see blogs.spiritualabuse.org/2018/02/16/a-pastor-who-should-not-have-been-part-1/ as well as other articles in that series.
Conquerors is age 12-35. Or it least it was when I attended UPCI church.
Yes it was when I went too, far to broad of an age range for Youth focused events in my opinion. Most other churches have the cut off age for "youth group" be 18yrs and then have a college and career group that serves the older young people.
You need to accuse the molester and make sure he goes to jail and you need to sue the pastor who didn’t help you
Unfortunately the statute of limitations has passed for her to do anything. One thing she is doing (with other victims in her state) is lobbying government to have that law changed...the statute of limitations removed and to make clergy mandatory reporters.
@@ResponsibleFaith
July 15, 2021 Emily Calderon is currently being sued by a UPCI church, the pastor and pastor's dad for half a million dollar. Three against one. She called out a minister on social media, soon after one victim Meghan Robles came out on RUclips with her story July 2021. The church and minister didn't think this girl was going to speak she went as far as tic tok and went viral let's help spread the story.