Well done As a Prot convert, I was shocked to learn lately that both Calvin and Zwingli were well-read in the sub-apostolic and other church fathers. But they thought the early Christians got it wrong, and thought they could noodle over the bible and come up with and new & improved Christianity. What shocking arrogance
As a Protestant slowly heading to the Orthodox line, you absolutely hit the nail on the head. As I’m getting deeper into orthodoxy, my mindset is changing, the orthodox faith has really taught me a deep sense of humility. As I listen to protestants, I realize how arrogant I must’ve been and how arrogant those I listen to are. My jaw drops when I hear people like John MacArthur, refers to the early church fathers as those who had childlike understanding of the gospel! What arrogance!!! Someone who knows was born into ancient Greek language in about the time of our Lord, has a much further and deeper understanding of the culture and mindset conveyed in the words of Paul, Christ, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Amazed was I when I heard a preacher on RUclips say “So what? If Ireneous said something different to what I am teaching.” Or James White saying that Ireneous probably couldn’t pass a college course on hermeneutics.” What arrogance!!
@@t-bonet-bone713 100%. I feel like there's a presupposition in a lot of Protestant circles (I'm from a Reformed background, and this is certainly true with them) that "knowledge" is really the only category of understanding God. There's really no place for noetic experience, and so of course the Church Fathers and early christians would have been "less christian" because they simply had less intellectual knowledge. I think this is why monasticism and asceticism are completely foreign to the protestant mindset, because they presupposes that "faith" necessarily means "believing in certain propositions." Can't help but thinking of Our Lord telling us that we should have faith like little children.
@@pj1683 Yep for as much as they disdain Rome they are locked in the same paradigm. The presuppositional thinking framework of post scholastic Rome that reason is what leads to God.
Marvelous teaching. I am Catholic hermit nun for 48 years and always sensed a great lack in our faith. Your simpler explanation is encouraging. I do desire to be Orthodox though I live more than 20 miles from any town, do not drive or have license. Have been praying Jesus prayer, reading Philocalia and asking Fr. Seraphim Rose to guide me. God willing somehow the Lord will help me get in... I have limited internet as i only have phone. I read and listen to Orthodox sites Bible and Mother Makrina book, Philokalia and Fr. Seriphims books. Praying for help
Oh, how wonderful to read your words. I know that the Lord will bless you in this. I am sure that Fr. Seraphim Rose will help also. 20 miles isn't too far. Our church is farther. . So i hope that someone can read this and somehow help you. ☦💝📿💝☦
@@patriciagray484 oh, my. Of course, i didn't think about that in terms of walking.. I was hoping that someone could take you in their car/vehicle.. Let's see what happens. I am delighted by your interest. Of course, i don't know how it will work out, but let's see what happens.. ☦💝📿💝☦
Wow that was top tier. You spoke perfectly. Lots of what you said I’ve thought almost word for word. People who love Christ must be able to understand these things and make the journey to the church. As a Protestant, we live by scripture alone, and so the scripture should lead people to orthodoxy. Like you mentioned in exodus the second half the tabernacle and priestly ordination etc. After reading that I always knew deep down something was wrong and kept it to myself as a new Christian. Lots of people slander this undefined word “religious”, a way to live in Christian relativism, but I knew this modern Christianity didn’t make sense. Discovering orthodoxy was like finding this great treasure that liberated me to live the Christian life the way that finally made sense and gave me the freedom to obey the scriptures. Anyways all the best in your journey to reach more people.
As an Inquirer this book has been great in laying everything out. Not only about Orthodoxy but the history of Christianity. It was such a blessing to be able to read it. 😊
LOL, I noticed that book took in the background. As a former hard core Calvinist (28 yrs), "Rock and Sand" is one of two books that sent me over the top to become Orthodox after 10 months of intense study (almost two years ago).
Haven’t watched the video (It’s 12:41 am) but I’ve been eagerly waiting for you to put another video out. Listening to you and your logic encourages me to continue towards the Orthodox faith. Thanks for your time it is precious since you are so busy.
A great talk. My friend sent this to me this morning as both of us are looking more and more into Orthodox Christianity. Thanks for posting, have an upvote for the RUclips algorithm and a new subscriber. God bless
Since becoming Orthodox it finally clicked why my experience in the Protestant theology was so internally conflicting and anxiety ridden. Without theosis, and being in the Orthodox Church Christianity can ONLY be moralism. Evangelicals tell you moralism is bad, and not what the gospel is about. That’s what creates that inner turmoil because that’s ALL it could ever actually be. If you can’t ACTUALLY be LIKE Christ, it is a futile pseudo Christian faith.
Yep Fr. John Romanides had a long description of this problem with heterodoxy how in the end it just becomes moralism once it has lost the healing nature of the Orthodox Church.
I live 70 miles from any orthodox, eastern or otherwise. I have been on a mission since the day I first answered the knock of God to find truth, which is only found through Jesus Christ. I have been checking out alit of different theologians, pastors within Protestantism, Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy and if you give yourself to God he will lead u to truth. It is hard without fellowship with the body of Christ. We are followers of Christ and are made for his glory,
Wow, this is one of the best summaries of Orthodoxy in 30 minutes that I have ever heard. Truly excellent. Blessings to you for the content. I'll be passing this along to Protestant friends of mine who are Orthodox inquirers, or hopefully soon will be.
Great lecture, Paul. I went from high church Protestant to Catholicism rather recently. It' so important to place truth on the highest plane. The Protestant Church in America is full of democratization and the exaltation of opinion. Thanks again for pointing out these fallacies and deconstructing the wishful thinking that is part and parcel modern Protestantism (low church especially).
Glory to God! I checked out your channel for a few minutes, you seem very sincere and I believe you are commenting in good faith. Are you on fbook? We should connect in messenger or on the phone sometime
Could not relate more to the intro, Orthodoxy immediately clicked with me but my girlfriend was put off and confused by the liturgy. All in time, God willing
While seek to be like these "converts" praying to Mary & dead people, try seeing if you've been born again or born from above in the first place. Converting to being religious means nothing
This is a really helpful message. It makes a lot of sense. This is a question from someone curious and not someone looking to cause strife. But I am genuinely curious about the state of someone’s soul after they die had they not ever found the Orthodox Church. I know lots of people who have poured out their lives for Jesus, loved others, given everything and there is no doubt the love of God resides in them. I understand we shouldn’t be asking the question of eternal destiny, but is it not also important for us to know (or at least claim we can’t 100% know) the destiny of such? Eternal separation from God with no hope of redemption after your last breath is a huge and terrifying deal. I have listened to orthodox priests say that God’s love draws us, and not fear. I’m genuinely curious how we can reconcile these truths of the Church with those outside of it, especially when those lives show the fruit of sincere believers who have been undoubtedly transformed by the power of the Spirit.
@@slowboywhiteboardv4yes, I understand that. I watched the video. My attempt in this comment was to give an example of a particular nuance. He mentioned that answering the question requires nuance, and I agree. I am just explaining that from a Protestant perspective, I have also experienced the Holy Spirit, the love of God, and transformative grace- as well as others. On the flip side, I have also seen the horrible idea that somehow saying a “sinners prayer” and vaguely accepting Jesus as truth is all there is. I’ve seen it all, and have been exposed to nuance, which I consider a blessing.
Those outside of the Church can (and certainly do) experience the grace of the Holy Spirit acting upon them! I know I did as heterodox, and even unbelievers do :) the difference is that those outside the Church do not have the Holy Spirit dwelling *within* them, as the Holy Spirit is received through the Mysteries of Initiation (Holy Baptism and Chrismation). During the anointing with Holy Chrism, the priest literally chants, "the Seal of the Gift of the Holy Spirit". The following link from 2:00 - 5:00 is really helpful! I hope it can bring some clarity🙏☦️ ruclips.net/video/nRv9OG0N6tU/видео.htmlsi=e4zp0pMm0-cy1gkH
Jesus Christ son of God have mercy on us sinnners,help us,forgive us,protect us from evil one.Our heavenly Father have mercy of us for your Son Jesus Christ and Mother Mary 🙏🙏🙏💗Amen,Amen,Amen
Means a lot coming from you my brother! Also, sorry I abandoned our group message...been planning a return to that asap. This whole event and the lead up to it had me totally spent! I believe another congratulations is in order..😑😑😂
The sad thing about this teaching, like many teachings within the Christian church is that it ultimately seeks to create an us vs them way of looking at things.Reformed tradition, Orthodox, Catholic, Charismatic, etc...we all fall prey at various points to the my way or the highway means of looking at the faith and denigrate (even if kindly) the other ways of living out one's faith. Christ is clear, salvation is found nowhere else but through him as expressed baptism by water and a faith in Him as the resurrected Son of God, equal with the father. ie. The Apostles Creed + Mark 16:16, among many many others) Undoubtedly, we all have aspects of our theology which are incorrect and lead us down paths or ways of thinking which are incorrect. By God's grace, they will be overcome on the day of judgement, not be our good works, not by our right theology but by the blood of Christ alone. All of us who call upon the name of Christ ought to be grateful for this reality.
Christ as he has revealed himself to us in the New Testament. Your interpretation and my interpretation of that Christ will undoubtedly fall short which is why you must cling to his saving work upon the cross as your only hope and nothing else. @@acekoala457
You did address it - yes -- albeit unsatisfactorily. You lean almost exclusively on the church fathers. Which I completely understand, that is in fact your tradition and would make sense for you to do. However, that manner of addressing things is an eerily similar response as to how the Jewish leaders thought about their own systems prior to the arrival of Christ. They loved leaning on their fathers Moses and Abraham. And please keep in mind, I am not saying that we ought not to strive for absolute truth and that it does not matter. However, I would hope that even you acknowledge that our mind's and rationale capabilities are so plagued by sin that we will inevitably fall short in our understanding of what is true and who Christ truly is. End of the day, Christ welcomed a lot more people into the kingdom than anyone of the day anticipated provided that their hearts looked like what He asked for in Matthew 9:13. Mercy, not sacrifice, that is his desire from his people. And unfortunately, every time a sect of Christianity (Orthodox, Reformed, Catholic, etc...) goes awry, there seems to be this suspicious theme of creating an us vs. them mentality aligned with lots of sacrifice. @@bottomoftherabbithole
@@npugh1985 you may not understand that you're doing it, or you may not want to admit it, but you are literally refuting Christianity by taking the position that you are asserting here. Please watch this before engaging further: ruclips.net/video/LyBheYcxkso/видео.htmlsi=S5UyufHPpOXBxKc1
I grew up protestant and we really didn't know any better because we thought our argument was with the Roman Catholic church. I wonder what Rome's accountability will be, since all of this chaos that inflicts Christianity today is really Rome's fault as the first protestants from Orthodoxy. Protestants develop doctrines that got them out of the Roman yoke But didn't return them to the true Church, sad!
You may enjoy searching out the history of the catacombs. Remember, most people couldn’t read. Icons were a way to teach spiritual truths without words. There’s a lot more to it, but I found it interesting to know that iconographers don’t paint icons-they “write” them. ❤
I plan on it! The rest of the meeting consisted of one of our deacons and our priest giving talks and then an open Q and A! Hopefully will get to it this week, Lord willing!
our one faith and one mind is Christ. He is the truth the way and the life, not a denomination or tradition or ritual. when we love and walk like Christ with the Holy Spirit that’s how we and others know we have the truth. calling yourself an orthodox Christian might be fine but not necessary.
Sooo...you didn't watch the video? Or are you just here to make baseless assertions that don't engage with a single thing I presented? I usually delete comments like this, but...I'll give you another chance
inquirer trying to understand.. how can there be ANY hope for those outside the church if they are completely disconnected from the mysteries? struggling to think about this having protestant parents who love Christ
We remember that our same God, Jesus Christ, saved the thief on the cross. We remember that our prayers are not discarded when we pray for our loved ones. We remember that we can say this is the Holy Orthodox Church, but cannot say who Jesus will save or not save within the Church or without. We remember that the Spirit goes where it will. In summary, we remember that we are not our merciful, perfect God and do not dare judge who will or will not be saved.
And, I relate to your question. My entire family is Protestant. My prayer is always that the Lord will hear my prayers though I am an unworthy servant, and I pray that He will bestow evermore grace upon and in me so that my loved ones will be drawn to the fullness of the faith. 🙏🏼
I enjoy your discourse. Of course there are people saved outside of the Orthodox Church. I find that allot of converts tend to have a arogency in them self and or idolizing the church. I once was a Protestant and now…. Got ya
@@jupiterinaries6150 Did Abraham, Moses and our Lord Jesus were prideful ? Haven’t you learnt, don’t judge the outward appearance ? Your statement is very judgemental and prideful indeed.
@@bottomoftherabbithole In all good humour, I'm not a Methodist, but your laugh emojis is how I feel when an Orthodox threatens me to either convert to his religion or spend an eternity in hell. Not only does the lack of charity bemuse me, so does the general sentiment. But that is not to say I do not respect Orthodox Christians or the Orthodox faith. I have more icons in my bedroom than an iconostasis. And I prayed to Our Lady of Kazan for Orthodox Christians this evening.
Idk my church practices how the primitive churches did to a T. The church “history” from y’all’s perspective is really messy and contradicting imo especially the anathema for not loving showing adoration for icons etc. that is just ridiculous. can def see how stuff got distorted and screwed up after the persecution and when politics started getting involved etc. cannot understand infant baptism at all either considering it’s nowhere mentioned or heard of till close to 200 ad. When the Bible is explicit that baptism is a believer’s baptism for the forgiveness of sins and no children are baptized or anyone that can’t be accountable for themselves that I can see in the Bible. Gunna have to stick with the church of Christ. God is bigger than a physical theology. The church is all those in Christ and 2 or more gathered in his name in the physical sense. I disagree with most Protestants on once saved always saved and baptism not being salvific but a lot of them just obey god like a child and are confused. The fact they are willing to obey fully without even thinking they have to or else due to their faulty theology gives them my respect they do right out of pure love and devotion and I’m sure god recognizes that. It’s time for the orthadox church to reform itself a bit they’ve taken a lot of wrong turns and will not admit it due to pride over their belief in the succession. Holding man made tradition through the wrong take on a messy patchy history over clear scriptural and inspired teachings imo. I tried but can’t I’n good faith continue down the orthadox road. I believe there are sincere Christian’s amongst them but we all need work. we all need to debate grind out and not damn every one to hell over a muddy history that can’t be used to make a theological decision. Church infallibility was made up in my honest humble opinion. Thank goodness god is graceful and gave us what is truly required for faith and salvation through his providence in preserving the inspired writings
I see a lot of stuff in here about your opinion. Where can I read this gospel of the random unknown youtube commenter? It must be really good, if your opinion is so reliable.
Excellent message. Very relevant for me. I have no doubts about leaving Protestantism: you topped it off nicely. God bless 🙏🏻
You really going to kiss icons?
@@tonystark2.088 That’s your focus?
@@tonystark2.088*Chad orthodox "yes" meme*
@@tonystark2.088 it is natural for people to kiss images of things they love.
@bad is it ok for Muslims to kiss the black stone?
Well done
As a Prot convert, I was shocked to learn lately that both Calvin and Zwingli were well-read in the sub-apostolic and other church fathers. But they thought the early Christians got it wrong, and thought they could noodle over the bible and come up with and new & improved Christianity. What shocking arrogance
As a Protestant slowly heading to the Orthodox line, you absolutely hit the nail on the head. As I’m getting deeper into orthodoxy, my mindset is changing, the orthodox faith has really taught me a deep sense of humility. As I listen to protestants, I realize how arrogant I must’ve been and how arrogant those I listen to are. My jaw drops when I hear people like John MacArthur, refers to the early church fathers as those who had childlike understanding of the gospel! What arrogance!!! Someone who knows was born into ancient Greek language in about the time of our Lord, has a much further and deeper understanding of the culture and mindset conveyed in the words of Paul, Christ, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Amazed was I when I heard a preacher on RUclips say “So what? If Ireneous said something different to what I am teaching.” Or James White saying that Ireneous probably couldn’t pass a college course on hermeneutics.” What arrogance!!
@@t-bonet-bone713 100%. I feel like there's a presupposition in a lot of Protestant circles (I'm from a Reformed background, and this is certainly true with them) that "knowledge" is really the only category of understanding God. There's really no place for noetic experience, and so of course the Church Fathers and early christians would have been "less christian" because they simply had less intellectual knowledge. I think this is why monasticism and asceticism are completely foreign to the protestant mindset, because they presupposes that "faith" necessarily means "believing in certain propositions." Can't help but thinking of Our Lord telling us that we should have faith like little children.
@@pj1683 Yep for as much as they disdain Rome they are locked in the same paradigm. The presuppositional thinking framework of post scholastic Rome that reason is what leads to God.
Well said everyone, thanks for the response.
Not to mention Luther calling the book of James “an Epistle of straw”.
Orthodoxy saved my life! Unfortunately the one thing it did not do was allow me to grow a full beard like reader Paul 😂 one day
Beards are optional unless you’re a Saint of course. They are prohibited if you’re an angel. So chances are you’re good to go.
Marvelous teaching. I am Catholic hermit nun for 48 years and always sensed a great lack in our faith. Your simpler explanation is encouraging.
I do desire to be Orthodox though I live more than 20 miles from any town, do not drive or have license. Have been praying Jesus prayer, reading Philocalia and asking Fr. Seraphim Rose to guide me. God willing somehow the Lord will help me get in... I have limited internet as i only have phone. I read and listen to Orthodox sites Bible and Mother Makrina book, Philokalia and Fr. Seriphims books. Praying for help
Oh, how wonderful to read your words. I know that the Lord will bless you in this. I am sure that Fr. Seraphim Rose will help also.
20 miles isn't too far. Our church is farther. . So i hope that someone can read this and somehow help you. ☦💝📿💝☦
Thank you. Truly 20 miles is very short unless you must walk. The walk to town takes me 6 hours.
@@patriciagray484 oh, my. Of course, i didn't think about that in terms of walking..
I was hoping that someone could take you in their car/vehicle..
Let's see what happens. I am delighted by your interest. Of course, i don't know how it will work out, but let's see what happens.. ☦💝📿💝☦
@@lindaphillips4646 Amen
@@patriciagray484 i realized later that i think we have 'talked' before about the very issue you are facing.. God, bless..☦💝☦
Wow that was top tier. You spoke perfectly. Lots of what you said I’ve thought almost word for word. People who love Christ must be able to understand these things and make the journey to the church. As a Protestant, we live by scripture alone, and so the scripture should lead people to orthodoxy. Like you mentioned in exodus the second half the tabernacle and priestly ordination etc. After reading that I always knew deep down something was wrong and kept it to myself as a new Christian. Lots of people slander this undefined word “religious”, a way to live in Christian relativism, but I knew this modern Christianity didn’t make sense. Discovering orthodoxy was like finding this great treasure that liberated me to live the Christian life the way that finally made sense and gave me the freedom to obey the scriptures.
Anyways all the best in your journey to reach more people.
Lol I see fr. Josiah trenhams book "Rock and sand" in the background, I'm halfway through chapter 8 and it's so great
As an Inquirer this book has been great in laying everything out. Not only about Orthodoxy but the history of Christianity. It was such a blessing to be able to read it. 😊
LOL, I noticed that book took in the background. As a former hard core Calvinist (28 yrs), "Rock and Sand" is one of two books that sent me over the top to become Orthodox after 10 months of intense study (almost two years ago).
It’s good to see so many coming to the church
God bless you brother ☦️
Love you brother! Missed you at the event and praying for you; hope you're feeling ok ❤️🙏☦️
@@bottomoftherabbithole love you too, really appreciate your prayers 🙏def will talk soon
And thank your wife for us. For her sharing you with us. She must be a saint.
She indeed is a Saint. An example to all of us mamas and wives ❤
Excellent and much needed talk. This is, indeed, the Mind of the Church. God bless!
Well done, Paul. Very thorough yet approachable and well reasoned
Haven’t watched the video (It’s 12:41 am) but I’ve been eagerly waiting for you to put another video out. Listening to you and your logic encourages me to continue towards the Orthodox faith. Thanks for your time it is precious since you are so busy.
Excellent presentation, Reader Paul.
Great talk! Lord bless you brother ☦️
God bless you reader Paul. That was an excellent talk. Most surely these are words inspired by the Holy Spirit. Glory to God ☦️
All glory to God my brother in Christ. Pray for me, a sinner
A great talk. My friend sent this to me this morning as both of us are looking more and more into Orthodox Christianity. Thanks for posting, have an upvote for the RUclips algorithm and a new subscriber. God bless
Since becoming Orthodox it finally clicked why my experience in the Protestant theology was so internally conflicting and anxiety ridden.
Without theosis, and being in the Orthodox Church Christianity can ONLY be moralism. Evangelicals tell you moralism is bad, and not what the gospel is about. That’s what creates that inner turmoil because that’s ALL it could ever actually be.
If you can’t ACTUALLY be LIKE Christ, it is a futile pseudo Christian faith.
Yep Fr. John Romanides had a long description of this problem with heterodoxy how in the end it just becomes moralism once it has lost the healing nature of the Orthodox Church.
@@NavelOrangeGazer Id love to hear it! I know it very well experimentally. It was a very dark experience.
I live 70 miles from any orthodox, eastern or otherwise. I have been on a mission since the day I first answered the knock of God to find truth, which is only found through Jesus Christ. I have been checking out alit of different theologians, pastors within Protestantism, Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy and if you give yourself to God he will lead u to truth. It is hard without fellowship with the body of Christ. We are followers of Christ and are made for his glory,
I live about that distance from the Parish I attend regularly.
It's worth it.
@@acekoala457 It is a Greek Orthodox, once I get my car fixed I think I may. Be safe and God bless
I actually just left a message with the deacon at St George orthox church in Fishers Indiana 🙏
Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, please have mercy on me, a sinner. 🙏
Wow, this is one of the best summaries of Orthodoxy in 30 minutes that I have ever heard. Truly excellent. Blessings to you for the content. I'll be passing this along to Protestant friends of mine who are Orthodox inquirers, or hopefully soon will be.
Great teaching with an excellent presentation.
That was articulate and absolutely beautifully said!!
This talk has certainly drawn the protestants out of the woodwork in the comments section!
I enjoy your videos and especially your demeanor and meek spirit that comes through…very good
Great lecture, Paul. I went from high church Protestant to Catholicism rather recently. It' so important to place truth on the highest plane. The Protestant Church in America is full of democratization and the exaltation of opinion. Thanks again for pointing out these fallacies and deconstructing the wishful thinking that is part and parcel modern Protestantism (low church especially).
Thank you. Keep up the great work 🙏
Absolutely love your channel!
Thank you, for all the work you do to help guide people to the one True church. ☦🛐
Subbed to follow your work - left a comment on your community post. Really didn't disagree with anything you said. Blessings bro
Glory to God! I checked out your channel for a few minutes, you seem very sincere and I believe you are commenting in good faith. Are you on fbook? We should connect in messenger or on the phone sometime
It would be my utmost honor to connect! I just looked for you on FB and send you a friend request. Appreciate your dialogue!@@bottomoftherabbithole
Great presentation and clear explanation of the True Church.
This is excellent, thank you
Excellent ☦️
I love the way you explain things please make more videos
This is fantastic.
Very informative and edifying thank you 🙏☦️
More 🔥
Rabbit Holes, you got that in there. Good job. Seriously well done and I want to help your algorithm by commenting.
AMEN!!! Thank you Paul!
Well done, Paul!
Thanks Reader Paul, another great talk 🙏
Could not relate more to the intro, Orthodoxy immediately clicked with me but my girlfriend was put off and confused by the liturgy. All in time, God willing
☦️
Amen!
Pray for me. I'm ready to convert but my spouse is not yet, so it's been a real struggle within our house.
Lord, have mercy! You're in my unworthy prayers, brother
@@bottomoftherabbithole thank you! I appreciate your prayers.
While seek to be like these "converts" praying to Mary & dead people, try seeing if you've been born again or born from above in the first place. Converting to being religious means nothing
This is a really helpful message. It makes a lot of sense.
This is a question from someone curious and not someone looking to cause strife. But I am genuinely curious about the state of someone’s soul after they die had they not ever found the Orthodox Church.
I know lots of people who have poured out their lives for Jesus, loved others, given everything and there is no doubt the love of God resides in them. I understand we shouldn’t be asking the question of eternal destiny, but is it not also important for us to know (or at least claim we can’t 100% know) the destiny of such? Eternal separation from God with no hope of redemption after your last breath is a huge and terrifying deal.
I have listened to orthodox priests say that God’s love draws us, and not fear. I’m genuinely curious how we can reconcile these truths of the Church with those outside of it, especially when those lives show the fruit of sincere believers who have been undoubtedly transformed by the power of the Spirit.
17:40
@@slowboywhiteboardv4yes, I understand that. I watched the video. My attempt in this comment was to give an example of a particular nuance.
He mentioned that answering the question requires nuance, and I agree. I am just explaining that from a Protestant perspective, I have also experienced the Holy Spirit, the love of God, and transformative grace- as well as others. On the flip side, I have also seen the horrible idea that somehow saying a “sinners prayer” and vaguely accepting Jesus as truth is all there is. I’ve seen it all, and have been exposed to nuance, which I consider a blessing.
Those outside of the Church can (and certainly do) experience the grace of the Holy Spirit acting upon them! I know I did as heterodox, and even unbelievers do :) the difference is that those outside the Church do not have the Holy Spirit dwelling *within* them, as the Holy Spirit is received through the Mysteries of Initiation (Holy Baptism and Chrismation). During the anointing with Holy Chrism, the priest literally chants, "the Seal of the Gift of the Holy Spirit".
The following link from 2:00 - 5:00 is really helpful! I hope it can bring some clarity🙏☦️
ruclips.net/video/nRv9OG0N6tU/видео.htmlsi=e4zp0pMm0-cy1gkH
Jesus Christ son of God have mercy on us sinnners,help us,forgive us,protect us from evil one.Our heavenly Father have mercy of us for your Son Jesus Christ and Mother Mary 🙏🙏🙏💗Amen,Amen,Amen
Nice video bro.
Means a lot coming from you my brother! Also, sorry I abandoned our group message...been planning a return to that asap. This whole event and the lead up to it had me totally spent! I believe another congratulations is in order..😑😑😂
The sad thing about this teaching, like many teachings within the Christian church is that it ultimately seeks to create an us vs them way of looking at things.Reformed tradition, Orthodox, Catholic, Charismatic, etc...we all fall prey at various points to the my way or the highway means of looking at the faith and denigrate (even if kindly) the other ways of living out one's faith.
Christ is clear, salvation is found nowhere else but through him as expressed baptism by water and a faith in Him as the resurrected Son of God, equal with the father. ie. The Apostles Creed + Mark 16:16, among many many others)
Undoubtedly, we all have aspects of our theology which are incorrect and lead us down paths or ways of thinking which are incorrect. By God's grace, they will be overcome on the day of judgement, not be our good works, not by our right theology but by the blood of Christ alone. All of us who call upon the name of Christ ought to be grateful for this reality.
Which Christ?
Because only one Church can preach the True Christ.
@npugh1985 already adressed:
24:25 - 29:49
Christ as he has revealed himself to us in the New Testament. Your interpretation and my interpretation of that Christ will undoubtedly fall short which is why you must cling to his saving work upon the cross as your only hope and nothing else.
@@acekoala457
You did address it - yes -- albeit unsatisfactorily. You lean almost exclusively on the church fathers. Which I completely understand, that is in fact your tradition and would make sense for you to do. However, that manner of addressing things is an eerily similar response as to how the Jewish leaders thought about their own systems prior to the arrival of Christ. They loved leaning on their fathers Moses and Abraham.
And please keep in mind, I am not saying that we ought not to strive for absolute truth and that it does not matter. However, I would hope that even you acknowledge that our mind's and rationale capabilities are so plagued by sin that we will inevitably fall short in our understanding of what is true and who Christ truly is.
End of the day, Christ welcomed a lot more people into the kingdom than anyone of the day anticipated provided that their hearts looked like what He asked for in Matthew 9:13. Mercy, not sacrifice, that is his desire from his people. And unfortunately, every time a sect of Christianity (Orthodox, Reformed, Catholic, etc...) goes awry, there seems to be this suspicious theme of creating an us vs. them mentality aligned with lots of sacrifice. @@bottomoftherabbithole
@@npugh1985 you may not understand that you're doing it, or you may not want to admit it, but you are literally refuting Christianity by taking the position that you are asserting here.
Please watch this before engaging further:
ruclips.net/video/LyBheYcxkso/видео.htmlsi=S5UyufHPpOXBxKc1
Fire 🔥
I grew up protestant and we really didn't know any better because we thought our argument was with the Roman Catholic church. I wonder what Rome's accountability will be, since all of this chaos that inflicts Christianity today is really Rome's fault as the first protestants from Orthodoxy. Protestants develop doctrines that got them out of the Roman yoke But didn't return them to the true Church, sad!
💥💥💥💥
10:31 👶: Amen!
Honest question, when was the veneration of icons established in the early church? That’s my only real hang up about Orthodoxy
Pentecost
You may enjoy searching out the history of the catacombs. Remember, most people couldn’t read. Icons were a way to teach spiritual truths without words. There’s a lot more to it, but I found it interesting to know that iconographers don’t paint icons-they “write” them. ❤
Algorithm boost.
Algo boost
Paul, can you post, here on your channel, the whole meeting?
I plan on it! The rest of the meeting consisted of one of our deacons and our priest giving talks and then an open Q and A! Hopefully will get to it this week, Lord willing!
Youre just like me, cant stand still while talking to a crowd (excellent talk as well).. 😄☦️🙏
our one faith and one mind is Christ. He is the truth the way and the life, not a denomination or tradition or ritual. when we love and walk like Christ with the Holy Spirit that’s how we and others know we have the truth. calling yourself an orthodox Christian might be fine but not necessary.
Sooo...you didn't watch the video? Or are you just here to make baseless assertions that don't engage with a single thing I presented? I usually delete comments like this, but...I'll give you another chance
inquirer trying to understand.. how can there be ANY hope for those outside the church if they are completely disconnected from the mysteries? struggling to think about this having protestant parents who love Christ
We remember that our same God, Jesus Christ, saved the thief on the cross. We remember that our prayers are not discarded when we pray for our loved ones. We remember that we can say this is the Holy Orthodox Church, but cannot say who Jesus will save or not save within the Church or without. We remember that the Spirit goes where it will. In summary, we remember that we are not our merciful, perfect God and do not dare judge who will or will not be saved.
And, I relate to your question. My entire family is Protestant. My prayer is always that the Lord will hear my prayers though I am an unworthy servant, and I pray that He will bestow evermore grace upon and in me so that my loved ones will be drawn to the fullness of the faith. 🙏🏼
@2:14 Metropolitan Athanasios of Lemesos Cyprus ( Μητροπολίτης Λεμεσού (Κύπρος) Αθανάσιος )
Is your patron saint the Apostle Paul?
Indeed, he is my patron 😊
Algorithm boost
I enjoy your discourse. Of course there are people saved outside of the Orthodox Church. I find that allot of converts tend to have a arogency in them self and or idolizing the church. I once was a Protestant and now…. Got ya
How can one "Idolize" something that is part of God?
This is a silly assertion and borderline slanderous.
This is so boring and dried out, it’s like people don’t understand the point of Noahs Ark, or the Temple, or what Israel means. Like wake up people
is there a reason Orthodox men all grow beards?
Less time shaving more time praying
@@jupiterinaries6150 Did Abraham, Moses and our Lord Jesus were prideful ? Haven’t you learnt, don’t judge the outward appearance ? Your statement is very judgemental and prideful indeed.
Because beards are symbolic of manhood.
Please convert to the United Methodist denomination. It is the only hope for your salvation.
Now that's compelling! 😄
@@bottomoftherabbithole Thank you and look forward to seeing you at our worship service!
@@PaxMundi118 😂😂
@@bottomoftherabbithole In all good humour, I'm not a Methodist, but your laugh emojis is how I feel when an Orthodox threatens me to either convert to his religion or spend an eternity in hell. Not only does the lack of charity bemuse me, so does the general sentiment.
But that is not to say I do not respect Orthodox Christians or the Orthodox faith. I have more icons in my bedroom than an iconostasis. And I prayed to Our Lady of Kazan for Orthodox Christians this evening.
We should stop using the words convert/conversion for those who join the Church. As Metropolitan Kallistos said, the real conversion is to Christ.
The Church is the Body of Christ.
Unity with the Church is Unity with Christ.
Idk my church practices how the primitive churches did to a T.
The church “history” from y’all’s perspective is really messy and contradicting imo
especially the anathema for not loving showing adoration for icons etc. that is just ridiculous. can def
see how stuff got distorted and screwed up after the persecution and when politics started getting involved etc.
cannot understand infant baptism at all either
considering it’s nowhere mentioned or heard of till close to 200 ad. When the Bible is explicit that baptism is a believer’s baptism for the forgiveness of sins and no children are baptized or anyone that can’t be accountable for themselves that I can see in the Bible. Gunna have to stick with the church of Christ.
God is bigger than a physical theology.
The church is all those in Christ and 2 or more gathered in his name in the physical sense.
I disagree with most Protestants on once saved always saved and baptism not being salvific but a lot of them just obey god like a child and are confused. The fact they are willing to obey fully without even thinking they have to or else due to their faulty theology gives them my respect they do right out of pure love and devotion and I’m sure god recognizes that. It’s time for the orthadox church to reform itself a bit they’ve taken a lot of wrong turns and will not admit it due to pride over their belief in the succession. Holding man made tradition through the wrong take on a messy patchy history over clear scriptural and inspired teachings imo. I tried but can’t I’n good faith continue down the orthadox road. I believe there are sincere Christian’s amongst them but we all need work. we all need to debate grind out and not damn every one to hell over a muddy history that can’t be used to make a theological decision. Church infallibility was made up in my honest humble opinion. Thank goodness god is graceful and gave us what is truly required for faith and salvation through his providence in preserving the inspired writings
I see a lot of stuff in here about your opinion. Where can I read this gospel of the random unknown youtube commenter? It must be really good, if your opinion is so reliable.
Please watch this:
ruclips.net/video/KXd4eBdJtFY/видео.htmlsi=UEQqotQ1HHlOw3p_
☦️