Quazii Reacts: "How It Took Me 300 HOURS To Like FFXIV" by Jocat
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- Опубликовано: 18 сен 2024
- Quazii reacts to Jocat's "So I Wanna Talk About How It Took Me 300 Hours To Like FFXIV (and how you can too in far less time)" - original video here: • So I Wanna Talk About ...
𝗦𝘂𝗯𝘀𝗰𝗿𝗶𝗯𝗲 𝘁𝗼 𝗗𝗔𝗜𝗟𝗬 𝗰𝗼𝗻𝘁𝗲𝗻𝘁 ► bit.ly/2CqMeRg
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#ffxiv #finalfantasyxiv #jocat
hey, much appreciate you giving your reaction and some interesting insight!
and yeah I totally agree with the whole character connection thing, after a while you really do grow extremely attached to your character that it just becomes a natural part of being in the game
love your content Jocat (: awesome stuff as always, alongside your 'Crap Guides' series
Oh man do I feel that, I had created my character thinking they would be a side character but ended up going through the story with them which led to developing a personality for them and how they would react to MSQ (I am going through the game along side my significant other and we are just about through the end of ARR a couple more left)
Everyone always talks about how much you won't understand if you skip story, but I think the bigger problem is you won't _care_ as much. Yes, you can go back and watch the cutscenes, but I think that's different from the lived experience of watching the characters and the relationships develop. It is caring about the characters that really makes the story hit, at least for me.
I have a theory. I'm 65, have read Sci/Fantasy for most of those years. Asimov, Pohl, Doc Smith, Sturgeon, le Guin, Tiptree, McCaffrey, on and on over the course of my life. I have a very solid idea of what makes a story, plots, people, story, environments and all that. (yes, story is in there twice - it's important)
From very early on in FFXIV (yes, before the ARR Prune) I got interested in the story. I'd played WoW for 13 years, and frankly, story isn't it's strong point. This was different. I was never into Anime or Manga, so I was a bit dubious at first but I didn't find it too obnoxious. I felt that ARR was yes, a bit boring, but with seeds of something greater.
When I watched the NoClip documentary I understood why that was. There was no money for content past the easiest to do at the time.
I got very interested in "what happens next" which is a key part of storytelling. As I got past ARR, through Heavensward and Stormblood and Shadowbringers I kept getting that "What happens next" kept happening.
So maybe people who read a lot (in whatever genre) find greate enjoyment in FFXIV story and don't really care about the tediouness of some quests.
I believe that's very true. I haven't seen anyone that likes either reading or role-playing in general, that doesn't enjoy FFXIV story. Yes not everything in ARR is the most exciting (I've played through it 4 times, it was fine, but I wouldn't need to do it another time), but how exciting is really the pages long description of an environment and still the best stories ever written have pages and pages of it. I don't think there is anything wrong with the story at all, yes it's slow, yes the pacing is not always perfect, but nothing is perfect. Shouldn't people that can't deal with a story that wasn't made by Michael Bay rather think about why they can't pay attention to anything for longer than 7 seconds?
Honestly if someone complains that they "don't want to read so much", "the story is boring", "I can't be asked to talk with so many people", "why are they sending me around" etc. I can and only want to tell them: "Go play a different game. Nobody forces you to play it. If it's too much for you, try something easier!"
@@Adrasteia__ Yes. All of the above. I'm currently re-reading the Wheel of Time. Now, there's a story with intricate detail - you find out all about what the characters are wearing at any point. But at no point is it ever boring.
@@Adrasteia__ I definitely agree. I think the people who are hardly bored or just have the patience to go through the MSQ tend to be the kind who has read plenty of books in the past, or at the very least very accustomed to the slow pace that RPGs from Japan are usually known to have.
As a person that likes to read a lot, I can add a data point to your theory. I fell in love with FFXIV right out the gate in large part because I was rewarded for reading everything. Hell, reading every single text box was how I played the NES and SNES FF games when I was a kid! I had bad reflexes and games with too much action and challenge "scared" me, and I loved how FF and other RPGs would let me read about cool stuff, pick things from menus, and go at a pace that my tiny gamer self could keep up with. I am that person in the video going OH BOY, TEXT BOXES, no word of a lie. Though, admittedly, the thing that has KEPT me reading the text boxes is that those earlier ones had an absolutely astonishing amount of payoff. My bar was set very low by years of playing WoW, so when ARR skipped merrily over it, I was in. I was down. I was hooked.
@@BazzFreeman Hard disagree on WoT. You slog through the shit parts because they may have a clue that is important later because one thing he could do was write incredible action scenes. But he really needed to get a non-self intetested editor instead of his wife.
I always felt those early travel quests was to help you have a reason to pick up the fast travel spots. More of a game mechanic than a story element
So in ARR, the very first time Hydaelyn talks to us (i.e., the "Hear... Feel... Think..." cutscene) she says this: "The power to banish the Darkness dwelleth in the Crystals of Light. Journey forth and lay claim to them.
By thy deeds shall the Crystals reveal themselves to thee." This tells me that our primary purpose is to attune to all these crystals that we find on our quests (i.e., aetherytes) and we have to do certain deeds to journey forth. It's a cryptic message, but I think they told us from the beginning what to expect.
I got semi-invested in the story on my own but it was your videos that caused me to become fully and completely immersed in it. As a 2.0 launch player, I began to truly regret not soaking in these past story moments to fully appreciate the epic moments in ShB and EW. I watched through all of your playthroughs just to get a glimpse of it and recently started an alt to experience it all myself. Thanks for your content, Quazii!
Ultimately, the MSQ serves as a binding element for the community. A campfire around which everyone can gather and bond over if they've played through it. I'm starting to think that this is why the community as a whole doesn't seem nearly as toxic as others like WoW or League (just to name the first that come to mind, you get the idea). Skipping the story (even with a recap) doesn't let you in on this feeling the same way.
I've seen this with other WoW players coming over to XIV, but I think the biggest misapprehension that WoW has ingrained in players is the split between "levelling" and "endgame".
WoW players want to grind as fast as they can through the filler content to get to endgame as fast as they can because they know, from experience, that it is just "get 5 wolf pelts" and there's no greater lore or characterization there. The wolf pelts are not going to factor in to the story later. It's just a thing to take time to give you XP to gradually level you up.
XIV is a story-based game first. The concept of "leveling" does not apply, and I honestly think new players might be more open to the game if they removed character levels entirely, and just based unlocks off of quest progression. This need to reach endgame, "where the game gets good" in so many other MMOs, leaves so many players still to miss what makes XIV truly unique and excellent.
His advice for people to buy skips reinforces this point. It's like buying a book, and then paying a little extra to not read it.
As a long time WoW player that was definitely my big issue getting into ff14, it took me forever to stop seeing the world itself as a roadblock to the 'good stuff', i.e. instanced raid content
This explained the problem with MMORPG development in general. It is very VERY difficult to make compelling quests. It is extremely difficult to make a "quest that makes you do chores" feel good, outside of making it the plot point. This is why 2.0 og storyline isn't as good as everything else. They need time to be good.
Since Stormblood, chore MSQs usually lead to a plot point, or allows you to get a hint of what is going on in the story in the quest itself. That is a very important distinction. You realise that even though you are the "Warrior of Light" who is all-powerful, you are to some of the unknown a nobody. You realise that through gaining the trust, you realise you learn something that you won't have known if you didn't go through them. The plot is filled with tidbits that actually make you think deeper. Stormblood, which wasn't as loved as ShB and EW, was actually a ridiculously good expansion if you realise the undertones it was trying to advocate the entire time, especially when it comes to showing imperfections and showing how easy it is to dislike something if you have a different opinion.
as a Beta and 1.X player, I appreciated everything the Devs did in 2.0 on
I just love questing, lore and being part of the world. You can just imagine my joy coming from wow to ffxiv, I mean wow kinda only has side quests 😂 now that I'm done with msq I still have a lot of side quests and other things to do, it's great.
I don't know how to fully express it, but it kinda felt like the "golden days", like when I started wow as a kid 15 years or so ago
yeah, exactly. Playing mmo to do solo quests, that requires you to kill 5 rats, pick up 8 flowers and talk to a person. What an amazing experience that is. If only there were type of games, that focused on single player experience...
@@nemesisnidhoggr1468 haha thats not what I meant at all but glad you found some joy in that. I do also play single player games stricly for having a single player experience
@@gyderian9435 I play ffxiv mostly solo and I love this game, killing 5 rats is better than 'pray return to the quicksands'
Hah, I feel like I need to fix my statement a bit since ppl seem to not use their brain: I like mmo's mostly for their mmo aspects; however many of my mmo friends absolutely hate quests and pretty much only do dungeons and raids. I myself do like quests, among the other things. And the thing I like in quests is the story, characters and setting, not killing 5 ladybugs. Do you guys understand it now or do I need to simplify it for you further?
@@gyderian9435 I even submitted feedback for more sidequests! :D
I still argue the culling made the sense of playing arr worse. They left just the story important stuff, so there were quests more about going other places and killing things for pacing removed. Like before ifirit they mention two different avenues of investigation and one is never followed up on now cause quests were removed.
@@tenjenk I know people, including me, found those parts tedious when going through it. I vividly remember being so annoyed at Tataru trying to be a miner. And yet, it was all character building. I am so much happier for where Tataru is now because of those quests. Payoff is one helluva drug.
Everything depends on how much you feel for the characters you have been traveling together. It is up to people and no problem but you all want other people to feel the same wonder and amazement (emotional roller coaster you have been through) right? I do. I really love this game from the bottom of my heart. Then Endwalker is such a treasure. Full of the most memorable moment in FFXIV and I would say up to this point bc I know 4 sho there will be more to come over the next 10 years. And thanks Quazii, your reactions are one of my fav along wth zapla, rich, preach pyromancer and all who truly enjoy ff14.
Even if You only can do 2-3 quest per day, taking it slow is the Best experience ever
Sad thing is you can only experience it all for the first time once
I think if you've really taken your time to understand the story from ARR to ShB, then EW should in theory be the highest point because that's how it's set up by the writers. If you skipped any of ARR or even HW, or even went straight to ShB, then you probably are less likely to think EW is better. I would be interested to hear what people thought from that perspective.
BTW, I am not saying you are right or wrong any way about it. It really is subjective, but of course the intent of the writers is to have the ultimate peak be Endwalker, and if that didn't work out for you, I don't necessarily think it's anyone's fault. Even a master-crafted story impacts people differently. ShB is still an absolutely incredible expansion though and was already the best storytelling I had ever experienced before EW.
Watched this video last night and now I get to enjoy your take on the discussion. Love your content and love hearing you talk about FFXIV man.✌️
I personally feel like FFXIV could use more duty's during the MSQ that is probably the strongest portion of questing. Now that they have the trust system, why not have trust only mini dungeons? They could also have you do certain fates in the world tied to MSQ etc All of which would be more fun and introduce content.
The Fates thing is kind of a yikes thing. Crystal Tower unlock used to have you wait for 4 (or 3 it's been a long while) boss fates in the beast tribe areas and it would get mauled instantly due to the gearing up. You can go try doing ARR beast tribes, especially the sylphs, and they sometimes have that one quest where you need to get an item from one certain fate... and it just... won't.... spawn... Doesn't help if you're still a flightless little sprout so. But sure mini-duty dungeons = yes, Fates = no.
The only changes to FATES I would want is to add in the bonus exp fates and forlorn maidens to pre stormblood fates, and maybe allow bicolor gemstone collection from the earlier fates as well. There could be some number tweaking so gemstone grinding isnt dominant in early zones but it could at least incentivize people doing the fates in pre stormblood or shadowbringers areas when they aren't working on relic weapons.
They tried to tie quest progression and unlocks to fates in the early days. It failed, badly. Sometimes a fate you wanted just would. Not. Spawn. ...so eventually players who didn't do the content when it was new (and for some even when it was new) would just give up. Just ask any ARR or early HW player about "Stopping The Shakes."
Regarding the quest objectives, Jocat is absolutely right. Monster Hunter iterations before World and Rise are one of the best examples. The old Whetstone? Not infinite. Aetually something you had to farm and make. Gathering items? Locked you into animations for tens of seconds as you slowly find 1 thing out of a pile of dirt at a time. Bugnets, pickaxes, fishing rods, all items that took up space in your limited inventory. And then one day with World, they just cleaned all the poop up. You're here to Monster Hunt, not break 5 pickaxes trying to mine some ore that matters for low level gear sets while a monster wrecks you.
Arguably with the direction of some of the writing and how the WoL is kinda known for doing everyone's chores and it being somewhat ironic, it can be funny now and have context, but that doesn't make the act of having to do it fun.
I disagree. I "like" World but I don't have nearly as much fun playing it as it is far too streamlined. I prefer playing Freedom Unite as I have to gather everything, I have to bring every item before I go on the quest. I like the "tedium" as it grounds your actions and lends meaning to each hunt. I can barely remember what fighting a Nergigante is like, but I vividly remember Kut-Ku or Khezu. World is "fun", but fun is the most shallow and meaningless part of every gamer and can never keep me invested beyond a single playthrough. I love my yearly playthrough of Freedom Unite from scratch, I have never made a second World character as there is no point.
@@boobalooba5786 You are certainly welcome to disagree and that is a valid viewpoint. However World's sales numbers do speak for themselves as 'casual-ifying' the series made it approachble beyond the niche of Monster Hunter established fans. I personally couldn't tolerate 30 seconds of MH2G and got sick and tired after MH3U low rank that I was done with the game.
Obviously there is a loss of the 'hardcoreness' of the game and i'm sure to some degree you would rather gatekeep people away from the franchise in hopes of preserving your experience, but most companies can't afford that sort of mentality.
I can't really blame Jo for this, cause I tried the game like 3-4 times prior to finally getting into the game. I think the very first time I tried it, 1.0 was still around and I was giving the 7 day trial a chance, BUT I was so intimidated by the starting city that I gave up before even finishing the first quest. I went through this another 1-2 times. On my 4th or now playthrough, I finally got past that, was able to figure things out after a good few days trying to understand all the markers (which at the very beginning when starting out, there's so much info they want you to learn that it can feel overwhelming), and finally got into it last year.
I loved it. I played thru it all, no skips. I played whm, drk and sage all up to endgame in endwalker. I've done dungeons and raided and pvp and fates, and trials. It's great. I love the professions too. But I love mythic plus dungeon running. So after all of that I went back to WoW. Oh well, I can play both now when one has down time.
15:19 "I try to play up my reaction and excited to supposed important and impactful moments"
Most streamers who spends more time reading twitch chat than paying attention to the MSQ.
56:26 I have a friend that is very...unattached to the story and can definitely stop at the weirdest points. lol
Whenever she's online and willing to share her MSQ I like to rewatch it with her, and though she's enjoying it, she can reach a point where things are going down badly, there's meteors falling, everything's burning, your friends are in danger and she's like "oh ok gonna do some random meaningless sidequests to clear the map and going to bed" and I'm like HOW????
Different people enjoying the game differently I guess :x
I can't do this. When I reached the last map for example in EW I COULD NOT STOP until I reached the very last quest.
I hope you don't mind a 2 week late reply, apologies if you do but your comment here brought to mind my own experience. I stopped the moment I got to the final area, because of the direction the plot was going and it was late in the day I wanted to be well rested when I experienced it. I wanted to be sure that I was going to properly enjoy and absorb all the things that happened and I'm really glad that I did.
I can understand why some people would be baffled by that decision though. For me I'm just not much of an excitable person, and that's why I can find more break points than others.
I really love how to many buildings are interactive in ARR, even when they don't need to be, it makes me feel like I'm in a world, poking around much like the real world, and then Stormblood came along with its textured boxes and places that could only be entered via cutscene. So I still prefer the world build of ARR. Shadowbringers is very nice and I'm looking forward to playing Endwalker!
the thing that everyone forgets specifically about "waiting for the progress bar" as a story tool. You've had 3 seconds or 5 seconds progress bars the whole time, but when you're waiting for the train before the banquet, or when you're waiting for Gosetsu at the police station place, it's REEAAAALLY long. the more often you press it, the longer it gets, creating a sense of a calm before the storm in Thanalan and a cold dread in Kugane.
That part of Stormblood still gives me chills to this day. The most excitable, incredibly good man Gosetsu, after waiting super long, and after you and your companions look at each other, scared, screams. Your character and Alphinaud agree to go in. We find him at the end of a funny duel thing that's happening, cutting the tension straight out. I love it SO MUCH.
At some point, I rationalized waiting for an interaction by thinking of it as making sure the coast is clear in some cases, or putting in effort in other cases. 2.0 ARR spoilers below
Like picking up the roegadyn corpse in contrast to the sylph corpse after Livia wrecks the Waking Sands. I'm not saying it's necessary, but I like that it shows a certain amount of effort needed.
Many people say some quests would be fillers. But I don't think so. I played pen and paper in the past. And during roleplay it's completely normal that not just epic big stuff is happening. The little common quests in FFXIV are a good RPG part and help you to get a deeper understanding and feel for the world and the people arround you. :3
I played ARR on the release of HW, unpruned 100% pure patch quest grinds. It wasnt as bad as people made it out to be. But it definitely requires emotional investment.
I went in expecting a Final Fantasy, with a touch of MMO on the side, so my expectations were met.
Also the channel where we schemed to surprise you. The spoiler channel was definitely a wild place to be 😂 imagining you going back after finishing shb and seeing all our nonsense and how you must have laughed is a wild ride. 🌚
The only time I didn't pay attention to the story was the Crystal Tower because it annoyed me that a "sidequest" is keeping me from continuing the MSQ, so the reveal of the Crystal Exarch's identity was the only time I thought "...who?" and I got so embarrassed by that I immediately looked up the character's name to catch up and understand the significance.
Why can't FFXIV be the one setting the standard? Because I do think each type of MMO will appeal to different players. The players I know who are not interested in FFXIV it is because they tell me they don't play MMO's for any RPG and they don't even play RPG games. It won't matter to these types whether the quests are meaningful or not because this is not something they look for in a game. Just as there are MMO's I've played with a very weak story - weaker than WoW (if you can believe it) and I realize I'm not interested without the story elements.
I can't say I like some of the travel quests, but I do think it is important that NPC's do more than say "hey hero, go do this". Even if their backstory isn't important to you or the entire of Eorzia, it makes you feel more connected to the world. Instead of having characters we view as just a hurdle, we hear their stories and, by doing this, we learn about the people in that area and their struggles. As he says, they do a very good job of immersing us in these zones while in WoW it is typically the same races, but they have been transported to this other world because their is a sword in the globe, we are in the afterlife, etc.
The character things os so true, I played hundreds of hours with my dragon girl, and then decided to try a different race. But when I went through some more of the story as a different character, it felt wrong. The characters in the story knew me as the Au ra, not anyone else. So I switched back, and don't really wanna change again.
This happened to me recently. Now, while I certainly have abused fantasias (I started as Hyur, then Au Ra once it was in the game up until ShB, when I switched to Viera), it does just feel very strange seeing a completely different avatar for yourself doing the MSQ. A very sort of "off" feeling.
Like, what happened specifically with me was I went _back_ to Au Ra for EW (as I had played most of the game as Au Ra), only to find I was getting super distracted by the fact I wasn't a _very_ tall, red-headed rabbit woman. I usually have no problems with switching races or sexes, but when it comes to FFXIV I don't think I can do MSQ as anything other than Viera female anymore.
I played pre-pruned version of ARR, and it was fine. I never suffered during, i realize it is bit slow, but still way faster than, say, vanilla WoW leveling was. And story is great. So i feel that "arr being slow" is overblown.
I had a great ARR experience because I played it during the release cycle. So I was clamouring for ARR content DURING ARR and everything everyone was slogging through was stuff I was grabby handsing.
If you don't care about the story, you're really not going to like leveling in FFXIV. And sadly, a lot of people just don't like stories. If you want a game that's nothing but grind and hardcore content with no real story... play WoW. It's like the antithesis of FFXIV and probably more to that type of players tastes. For me, every conversation helps build the world and the characters, so I don't mind them. But in today's ADHD world, I understand most people just don't have the capacity for that kind of patience.
I also do not agree with JoCat's take on FFXIV not needing to be an MMO and should have been more of a visual novel. Again, that's WoW mentality where you get all your lore outside of the game world and that just doesn't work for me. Hell, that would probably cause most people to quit playing. It's the story and characters that draw most people in, the game play is what keeps them there after.
Actually I lost a lot of respect towards him there. The whole genre is called MMORPG and builds on some dudes who thought it was fun to make a video game version of Dungeons and Dragons. The MMO is the least important part and you *can't* fault an MMORPG for being massive multiplayer online and first and foremost a role-playing game, when this was literally the reason this type of game even exists: To be able to play an RPG with friends even if they are thousands of km away! It's one of the few even of it's genre. Why shouldn't a game that is exactly what it is, not be what it is? Just because people are used to every looter shooter with dragons or elves being falsely titled MMORPG?
@@Adrasteia__ I wouldn't say "lost a lot of respect" but just disappointed and taken aback. I totally understand getting through ARR being difficult because it took me a few times to just make it past level 30 (being new to MMOs and all), but to be a story skipper, really? I've seen so many people do this it just boggles the mind.
Imma be that guy, JoCat unironically played the game wrong. You can't blame the game devs for everything and when he had his eureka moment watching his friends play 5.3 he proved it. JoCat literally lost years of enjoyment because he didn't think Final Fantasy the franchise known for great stories would have a good story in their Final Fantasy game? smh
1.0 doesnt get enough credit for the community being as good as it is. Those 1.0 years really set the tone.
Damn, I wish my life is like what JoCat want MSQ to be.
I want my workplace, restaurant, beach, theatre, waterfall, gas station, supermarket etc just next to my house.
Like why I should walk for 10 min to buy food or drive 15 minute to workplace.
I am surprised Jocat played alot if not all the games I have played, seeing "trickster online" on there made me think "huh i probably ran into him at one point."
I remember when i started FF14 ARR was extremly tendious espcially after interlude to HW. I remember how upset that 5 days later after i finished all this quest they were scrapped. But the most magical moment was when i reached HW, the story quality jumped to another level and the design improved alot. It was like that ARR was a prototype while HW was the improved finished product.
I love that each expansion has his own story motif: ARR hope; HW hatred; SB oppression; ShB loss; EW despair
Remember....remember us....remember....that we once played all this 2.x quests before we reached HW.
Endwalker did the side questing better by tying mini plot points from a quest chain to a previous quest chain you did. Either that or they give lore tidbits with the surrounding environment or characters you meet
I read all the dialogue.... except from certain "scholars" that do not know when to stfu... (Mikoto (Bozja, Artisan raids) & Erik (Monk quests)).
But, yeah, the fact that I can RP to my hearts content is stellar and really makes me want to return and advance my character/myself through certain parts of the world that I/we are interested in.
56:17 I am quite sure he meant don't skip the scenes.. rather than rushing through because you are so hyped on the story hahahaha!
A thing worth mentioning with Unending Journey in your inn room you actually get ti rematch cutscenes not just read what happened in it!
First timed to see a Jocat video where he isn't using the leader of the Tantalus Theatre Group from FF9 as an avatar.
I played through the pre pruned msq of ARR four times, I only started skipping cutscenes on the 4th time, and only because I already knew what happens in the cutscenes and they were the more tedious parts of the story
I recently went through 2.0 again and it is sooo much more easy to digest than before. I remember when I went through the MSQ the first time, I was teleporting non stop and was like "UUURGH WHY DON'T YOU USE A LINKSHELL OR THE MOG POST OR SOMETHING". Moreover now mount speed is increased, the maps are fully discovered as soon as you go in a new zone, and bless the free teleportation tickets to the Waking Sands.
And now you also have flying for all 2.x content. I dunno if that actually makes things so much faster, but it's gotta feel good at any rate.
To be honest, I believe that the best game that this game did was to make its two first expansions f2p. I say this because, as a student who often tries to be as conscious of his money as possible and who has to work on assignements half of the week, it would have been very hard for me to give FFXIV a shot and get hooked by the story if the introduction was not free. Mainly this would be because I'd imagine that most people with limited time that actually spend money to get something, will want to put their cash towards things that would have the highest fun over time ratio. Therefore, essentially in addition to the fact that I personally HATE reading- which is because of the fact that focusing on every single words mentally drains me half of the time which tires me out quickly, and when that happens, makes me quickly loose interest and just want to close the game and sleep/ do something that gets my blood running- being able to first experience the game slowly without money being involved felt really good. Still it took me two tries to get into the game, but this is definitly something that I am not regretting. The story is really good and I would definitly advise people to give it a try. Just take it at your own pace and try to open an emotional connection witht the characters, and if you feel bored, just stop for a bit and come back later since the early game does not have a sub. Lastly, I will definitly agree with JoeCat on the matter of taking FFXIV as its own "thing". I initally came from WOW which I mainly loved fof the gameplay. So when I began in XIV, it all felt fairly boring since former's leveling pace and mechanics are a lot faster and fluid (though, this might mostlt be a question of opinions). Anyways, as soon as I began to tell myself: "this is a different game", the journey became much easier.
(SPOLIERS)
Also, as a little fun-fact:
The post ARR content (Period between the end of ARR's release MSQ and the start of Heavensward's) was dreadfull to me. I especially hated the crystal tower bit since I was not remotly even interested in the topic to begin with. (I wanted to get to Heavensward as soon as possible) Because of that I hated (to not spoil anything), red cat boy (HUM HUM). I ended liking him slightly more by the end of the raid's story but he wasn't my favorite character. Now, a few expansions later, he is my favorite character. Still owe him some adventures, hehe.
The Shadowbringers outfit is probably referencing the Neo-Ishgardian sets.
I used to play WoW and watched several lore videos because I skipped entire expansions due to overleveling, the videos gave a strong nerd vibe and over time I just gave up on trying to remember all the dreadlords and important orks. Meanwhile my friend tried to get me into FF14 for ages, he shared some choice details about the characters, "look at this one liner", "what a twist right?" and I just politely waited to change topics because there was obviously a mountain of lore that I couldn't be arsed to study. And then Asmongold started playing FF14 reading the text aloud and watching streams passively during the days I became invested in it like in visual novel. By the time he finished HW I couldn't wait for more, but he took a break and I HAD to know what's next, so I started playing. I actually liked the breathers in the story where we can just take in scenery, that's why I didn't mind StB "meet the locals" parts, I actually found the war itself (and Empire in general) to be less interesting. The game shines in interpersonal stories, that's why I loved ShB, we finally met ascians as people.
You know what? I didn't even consider that this would happen with Asmongold's hiatus. But if you think about it for just a few seconds, it's obvious: Due to his personal tragedy, he indirectly blue-balled the viewers he had at the time.
Shit, Asmongold really did boost FFXIV's player base by an insane amount. And _twice._
I had a hard time reading the quest text (especially with some characters and their heavy accents) in ARR and wanted to rush through the story to get to where my friend was. MSQ felt like a chore at the time and I would skip stuff. But when I finally slowed down in post-ARR, it was when I started enjoying the game and play for myself, explore, read about characters, understand context better. The gameplay was fun but it was beginning to like the characters that hooked me into the game. And the banquet, that whole cutscene left me in shambles. The perfect way to start HW, with the ambiance, the music, the loneliness and the snow.
And honestly, going into ARR again with an alt was nice to finally be able to read the quest and the extra NPCs dialogues since I knew who they were. So it was easier to pay attention and making connections.
One of the best reaction of FF XIV content I have ever seen!
I started FF14 when ShB was launched for about 1-2 weeks (ARR MSQ still not pruned)
at first, I'm quite at the same place as him. I started as gladiator and then switched to BLM because I'm bad at navigate dungeon (and of course, tank has to lead the way) and still didn't like it for being slow caster.... but not for long I discovered crafter and gatherer to be super fun and its a deep rabbit hole since I was in ARR. got all of them to LV50+ while MSQ still stuck around LV32 then I realized I can't go to get level 60 mats because I need to go through MSQ first for the new zone it made me frustrated so much.... but its not that big deal because I'm story guy tho.
I’m almost SURE I was the only person in HW who missed the ARR main story. So yeah, I love ARR.
Endwalker is my favorite, though.
No, they do mean the quests get better in ShB and EW. I don't feel like I was traveling back and forth a lot at all. A lot of the traveling for the initial quest is specifically to help you explore parts of the map that you might not have seen yet.
I should probably finish the entire thing before commenting, but like... IMO, it's not supposed to feel fun sometimes. Part of the point is that you ARE helping people with everyday things and whatever is troubling them--this is the attitude that makes you the Warrior of Light, this is the core of why you were Azem. This is why at the end of the end, so many come together to help you when you call on them, because you were there for them when they needed it no matter how stupid or how trivial the task. The entire fucking point of the story is that you are That Guy. It's part of the ethos of the world itself and specifically of your character.
PANADOL
But damn, minor spoilers, but one thing that struck me when I watched the original video was that Jocat's lesson about enjoying the journey is really just the story of Endwalker. Really enjoyed that about Endwalker cos it really encapsulates the game as a whole!
Im a veteran player and i know the formula, i havent played in weeks cuz i finished EW, did the Ex trials and i dont care about savage, wont resub until i see a new patch(late march probably), then if i really like all that new content i keep resubing if not i wont resub until next patch comes, thats how i play the game by 9 years. (ofcourse i miss it every day) i always came back cuz is the only game that i really feel in an OTHER WORLD having adventures.
I am the exact opposite of most FFXIV players. I picked up ARR at launch and was hooked from the character creation screen, played up through the msq and then stopped playing for almost a year because at that time I hated the fact that dungeons and trials were part of the game and just wanted more quests without them being locked behind "content". I never canceled my sub but I only played each patch as it was released for the story and wouldn't touch the game until the next patch, once the gold saucer was released it was basically the only content I ever logged into the game for until Heavensward came out. It wasn't until Heavensward that I chose to run a dungeon more than a single time for the story, and Stormblood before I ever chose to redo a trial. I didn't even try an extreme trial until Shadowbringers, as the story had me so hooked and the gameplay was so fun that I felt a deep desire to play constantly.
Heavansward was by far the best! Having dragons help you destroy the catholic church and kill a pope, is every little boys dream!
I got a fucking ad just a second before he did in the video lol
I can answer the question that Yoshida had answered a long time ago with storyteller of A realm Reborn about the part why we had to travel all the way somewhere to deliver a message and then go back and all those mundane side-quest esque story-telling that isn't really capturing one's attention.
Back when 2.0 was launched, the dev team and story team sat together with Yoshida and they planned out how to make the best use out of people's times to balance game time, side content, main story content and more active content. They concluded that each level quest should take about 9 rounds, and about 16 minutes, i am unsure of the exact numbers they gave, or was it 9 minutes each? Regardless, back in the day, they decided that this was the best way to go. Now if you look at the MSQ per-patch pace, you see they have at some point come to a consistent length and duration. But back then there was little to no content, hence, A realm Reborn is more like a Real time waster. And this is also what prompted them to shorten the ARR storyline because what was important, and necessary, back then, is no longer necessary. that is the reason they sometimes make you seem like traveling for pointless unengaging reason.
i never read any dio but i still enjoyed the vocied parts of the story alot
quite honestly i was hooked from the start so there was no "wait till it gets good"
Play since ARR. Honestly skipped a whole lot in ARR and SB. Annnd I didn’t miss anything important. I’m super invested in the story and the world. Got thousands of hours in the game. But I completely agree with many: some quests are just complete filler. Those I skip.
bike mount is the best when going through new areas for the first time
My friends started at HW. They did to level 15 and then watched the hw trailer. The game gives most of the context.
i really liked realm reborn, loved heavensward and the lead up to heavensward. i disliked the lead up to stormblood, felt like i wanted to skip text but i took a 4 month break and returned and loved stormblood and beyond.
A realm reborn, reborn
I’m really happy they’re going back to touch up and change parts of ARR, but it’s true.... ARR really needs to be trimmed down and cleaned up on the immersion experience.
I also thought Heavensward was good, but thats all, its Stormblood that actually caught me more back in the days
It would be nice if they trimmed and restructured the ARR MSQ down into a bit of a movie. I have a lot of friends that I would love to recommend the game to that would absolutely love Heavensward, Stormblood, and Shadowbringers but I don't know if they would survive the ARR experience before quitting.
Quazii, you missed the last bit of the video which is very short but extremely wholesome!
Oh shit he did this before the moogle section on HW was nerfed. The moogle section was a nightmare, fuck them moogles.
Wait they changed the moogle section ?
@@XMAlek if it wasn’t the MSQ portion it was the side quest portion, aether current quests where the final quest of a quest chain instead of the beginning and blue quests didn’t exist yet
With over 4000 hours on my main character and been playing since ARR was current content - I've actually started a FRESH character to replay the whole story as a new character.
I've been playing since ARR too, over 10,000 hours on my main. Over the years I've started 3 alts just to play through the story again.
I SERIOUSLY hate the "I didn't enjoy a story I wasn't even reading, ergo the story is bad"...no the story isn't bad, you don't even know what the story IS.
That's NOT the argument Jocat made. Heck, he is fully invested in the story now and reads everything. He even streamed himself playing New Game + for hours on end, doing voice acting for everything.
He simply explained he had a hurdle getting into the game because he went into it with the wrong mindset, and even explains halfway through the video why he no longer feels the same way he did when he was struggling so hard by explaining exactly why the game is the way it is and how it is to the game's benefit.
He even says at the beginning of his video that for 300 hours he was playing the game "wrong" and learned it later watching other people play through the story because they were streaming it and he got engrossed.
@@Dragon_Lair He literally says he was skipping everything to begin with and thought the story was bad.
@@UmatsuObossa And then halfway through he also says he no longer feels that way, and immediately explains exactly why the game is designed the way it is and how it works.
Did you watch the whole video? He talked about how his mindset was that back then and how it is no longer that now.
EDIT: Even in the beginning of the video, before he started talking about why he struggled getting into the game so much he explicitly says he was playing the game "wrong".
the "issue" of ARR is how ppl got used to fast story and putting importance to u
remember at beginning u were not warrior of light, just another nobody, and u didnt event build your reputation yet, u just were doing chores for other as no NPC knew who you were, yeah it was tedious, but unless u have gone through that u wouldnt experience the struggle at beginning, u could say it was kind of filter for player
i mean everyone rememeber the fetch quest for the killer of primal, but before that u didnt know u could beat one yourself, thinking about it, at that point u were trying all u could
many of these quest are just side with no impact, but it gives more immersion to story later, as if u look back, u did a lot of side chores, u have grown
I kinda started the same way jocat did. My buddy (who doesn’t play anymore btw) introduced me to xiv. He even bought it for me he wanted me to play it so bad. This was around 2018 I think. Stormblood was the latest xpac? Anyway, I got into the game after struggling to figure out the sign-up account process, and my buddy tells me “if you read all the dialogue and watch the cutscenes there’s a pretty good story in here”. I was like, “sweet. I’m a story geek to the fullest.” However….. once I saw the sheer amount of reading required, it turned me off. Needless to say, I played 5 hrs and dropped it. Fast forward to June 2021. After hearing about the mass migration of WoW players to XIV and just the mass migration of players in general, I decided to give it a real chance. Read every word. Watch every cutscene. Really dive in to what the game is. I can say with absolute certainty, I am so happy I did. I haven’t stopped playing since. I play nearly everyday and have grown so attached to the world and the characters inside. I’ve never played a game with such a helpful and kind community. I have no need or want to play any other games. This game has my cajones in a death grip and I’m honestly enjoying it. Point is, if I hadn’t decided to read every bit of dialogue from beginning to end, I wouldn’t be invested and I wouldn’t be enjoying the game nearly as much as I am. It seems weird to say a video game has become such a important part of my life but it is what it is. I’m glad it’s setup the way it is. I’m glad I HAD to go through every expansion to get “caught up”. This game is much like real life. You get out of it what you put In.
When I first played I skipped everything that did not have a voiced cut scene. I got the main story of everything that happened, but did not get the small details till I watched streamers later.
I wish I have the free time to replay the MSQ from the ARR again in future.
played 1.0 for 7days and quit.
returned during HW....played to 55 and then quit.
played again in SHB on a brand new trial acct since i forgot both my earlier accounts....finally starting to enjoy the game.
so i've done both pruned and unpruned versions of ARR.
didnt really notice the difference tho
DRK story: Fantastic. DRK mitigation: YOSHI-P PLEEEEASE FIX LIVING DEAD
37:14
feel the same with sebby that FF14 is the one piece of MMO
Spoilers:
i just realize watching again the realm reborn trailers in this video, when the warrior of light and his party riding the chocobo, that not us as warior of light? was it ardbert and his companion?
I love people who don't pay attention, or skipped the story entirely, talk about how the story sucks, lol.
So i'm one of the unprunneed ARR doer. And tbh until patch story isn't THAT bad. But patchs were terribles, they had lots of "oh go talk to Thancred he needs to tell you how awesome he is at failing all his spying missions..."
I feel like ARR story (even more now) isn't that awful, and tbh lots of people main grip is that you don't start as the hero (usual hollywoodian story telling) and... it's fine really. But i really feel like no it would not be better as a single player story.
I think (and it's a good exercise for the dev) They should "force" people to watch a short recap (max 10 minutes, mandatory voiced) when they are buying a skip. Like that they would know at least the basis to enjoy the story.
I'm at the point where XIV i feeling like a job to me. The job quest kept me going (I loved the PUG storyline but I could leave the MNK quest line) through AAR. Then Heavensward came and I fell in love but the future expansions never really grasped me like HW did (unpopular opinion i know).
Now I'm through ShB and am slogging into EW but stalling with the other job quest. I'd be lying if I said i didn't enjoy some parts of the other expansions but the whole of them weren't as interesting. Now I'm just a silly little Lala doing my dailies, sending my retainers out to mug people, gambling, and murdering people in PvP.
HW has a great story, but it still has huge pacing issues (and it's story takes a bit, till it grips).., Stormblood is where the pacing & unlock flying is way better, from there on, the pacing is finally ok or gud
Ya know, I might just play ffxiv for the chocobo racing from time to time.
Nah Jocat is wrong the biggest barrier is buying/logging into the game Mogstation.
So he only appreciated the story when he was watching someone that was streaming that appreciated the story was going through and and experiencing it, reading everything and reacted excitedly due to the fact that it was a climactic moment that had taken 8 years to culminate to?
... did he want the story to be an audio book? This video made it feel like he just doesn't like to read and of course you aren't going to get into a story if you have to explore a zone and actually interact NPCS that will have speech bubbles for you to read.
I think it's, as he said, he had played so many other MMO's that he had a mindset that the story isn't that important, and he was effectively complaining that a strawberry ice cream wasn't a lemon-lime popsicle. By watching the streams of others and seeing everything happening in the story is what made him realize that it was strawberry ice cream in front of him, so he took time to settle in and read all the cutscenes he had previously skipped.
He then streamed going through New Game +.
He's now thoroughly hooked and engrossed in the game. I think his biggest initial problem was that he went into the game with a mindset that the story wasn't important because so many other MMO's, it isn't. Those games train players to not get invested in the story if the first 3 quests don't instantly hook you.
He had to change his mindset before he got so into it the game, and as a WoW refugee, I fully understand where he's coming from. There are a lot of habits that need to change to fully enjoy FF14 because it does things so differently than other MMOs I've played.
I honestly didn't care for the Dark Knight questline, I didn't get the hype, and this is coming from an FF14 fanboy. I mean, it's fine, "fine", but I would never be like, hey you, play this class so you can experience this little story.
I hate the idea that it takes 'x hours' in order for you to enjoy a game. First of all games don't owe anyone anything: you enjoy it you play, you don't enjoy, you move on. To me personally, I'm uncomfortable with the idea of recommending games to people by way of, "Stick with it this long and you'll like it." It's not a promise I'm willing to make. I don't need other people's enjoyment of what I enjoy to validate what I enjoy. I ought to be able to cite any of the dozens of glowing reviews for this game to prove that it has critical acclaim, then let other players decide for themselves whether they like playing it. Even when they don't enjoy FF14, it doesn't mean that this is a bad game, or that I enjoy playing bad games.
Jocat even says this in the first part of the video. He even says that FF14 is NOT a game you have to play a certain number of hours before you can start enjoying it.
He simply said that it took him 300 hours before he could set the right mindset and realized he was cutting himself out of a lot of the game, and once he did he could enjoy it from the start.
I think fall into the minority as well... I remember finishing ARR, jaw-dropped, and being very excited waiting for HW to release. And to this day, HW is my least favorite expansion. I actually liked SB better. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love all of the stories. But, for some reason I just didn't connect with HW as much as the others.
(spoilers up to shb)
I have mixed opinions. The negative: I found a lot of ARR very tedious. The dialogue in Praetorium was like a 13 year old wrote it, and Livia spoke like a meme on r/menwritingwomen. Crystal Tower dialogue was also really bad and not believable at all. The act of questing is not way better in expansions but a bit better I guess. In Sb I remember the start in Rhalgar's Reach when I just got like 5 different filler quests at the same time dumped on me. My friend who reads slowly had to skip parts of Sb out of boredom. Even Shadowbringers there was a boring parts. For me it was worst when getting the Talos into operation up in Kholousia when the same 1-2 tracks would play constantly.
But then the positive: There are also moments in the game and stories that are really among the best I've ever seen in a video game. Ysayle at her end, Final Steps of Faith, final confrontation between Emet and the player, Lyna's voice acting and Ardbert's moment during and after the attack on Crystarium.
It does funny things to my brain to know that there are things I love and hate so much about the story and writing in the same exact game. Story has undeniably gotten better, questing not as much so. I remember having more fun doing a variety of weird activities in Runescape questing.
It's undeniable that main story in FFXIV is overall good and has great moments. Is it worth it for all the time it takes to get there? That is really subjective imo. Problem is, people it seems often don't have a good ability to guess whether it'd be worth it or not looking at people's before and after reactions for playthroughs. I am positive about XIV's MSQ overall but that is an averaged feeling with a lots of ups and downs.
I have a friend that quit immediately after the Ravana fight in Heavensward. We assured him that “things get better” but the questing is pretty much the same thing. Plus if you skipped Dusk Vigil then your first piece of content wouldn’t be until Ravana. My friend actually got slightly interested from that point because story-wise, he asked to duel with you. Ice Queen goes first, so you really think that it’s gonna be a solo fight.
He was so disheartened to then see seven other people join him, completely negating that one thing he was holding onto. He hasn’t played since
He can have that fight before EW lol
i actually loved ARR
I don't think it's that Heavensward is that much better than ARR. It IS better, don't get me wrong, but it's not super revolutionary.
What it takes to enjoy this game is to realize it's very much it's own thing. While in some ways it's just a typical MMO and in some ways it's a normal JRPG, it blends those genres in a unique way that rewards you most when you take the time and effort to appreciate it for what it is.
I really hated this game and felt like it was an insult to even put it in line with video games in general. but the way it tells it's story is unbending, for better and worse. People that just want a fun game aren't going to get it. People that want a great story... will get closer to their desires.
I dunno, it took me a while to get any sort of enjoyment out of this game, but now I finally am and I still have a lot of issues but my connection with my character is my favorite part.
The experience would be much better if XIV has a VR version. The questing that XIV has fit well in VR since there will always be characters that give you something and tell you to go somewhere to get what you want. It’s not working with ppl who don’t feel any of that as tedious because they think that the game has been streamlined from beginning to the end. That’s not how VR games tend to ask you to do as you can just collect items before doing the quests or explore any place you want to instead of following the questline.
All i hear from this guy is “i cant be bothered to go into a game with no opinion at all.” Games are much better if you DONT BE CRITICAL when you start them. And he is ridiculously negative. I hear more complaining on the same shit i have spent over 5000 hrs doing. Its my third year and, i have enjoyed every quest, word, and second.
It's nuts to think they've had some idea since the beginning how they wanted to end the Zodiark/Hydaelyn story. This is something that was thought of 8 years ago and now it's coming full circle. Mind is blown.
But I will say this as someone that wasn't really into questing in World of Warcraft and just wanted to hit endgame to raid, 14 was rather difficult to get into (I've been playing 3 years now) at first and I definitely quit a couple times. Though looking back now, I feel dumb for doing so.
Always hated stories in MMOs but now I can't do without thanks to this game.
Were da eels?
Why was he not having fun...bc Story.Isnot.Gameplay. Fetch quests are bad.
I did sit through the story, I still dont care bc clicking on npcs isnt a fun game
I'm surprised he pointed out the running around in ShB because that quest is literally the entire MSQ in SB, which is by far the worst expansion. I would play up to SB, buy a skip, then play ShB after it, and I would recommend that to anyone. It's legitimately worth paying just to skip SB.