Great episode. I love the notion of bringing magic back in magic wherever I find it. An insignificant nitpick: Paul Kaye plays Vinculus, the Gentleman is played by Marc Warren.
years ago when I played D&D. Our group was complaining it didn't seem fair we could only remember so few spells. so our DM created a magic method for us. to prove the point. when ever a magic user learnt a new spell he would hand that person a scrap of paper with a number of non sense syllables written on it, around 3 per lvl of the spell. you were not allowed to write them down or use a cheet sheet. but he kept one for himself. you were allowed to remember as many as you actually could. but you had to recite it on spell cast, and if you got it wrong he would hit you with some misfire consequences. to this day I still remember some of my spells (its been over 30 years)
Fun! Though I kind of agree with your group. I’ve always found the ‘cast and forget’ idea absurd. I use a different system where you need to study a spell for a long time to lear it but then you know it. Casting is limited by mental drain requiring the mage to rest and sleep after a certain amount of magic.
@@mockupguy3577 That's why I like the "perils" system in magic. Whenever you cast a spell, you throw a dice of perils, the more potent the spell, the more dices thrown. Your wizard has a limit of how much perils he can sustain. If you go overboard, the magic unstability is released and causes havoc on the wizard and maybe others around with various possible effects. A long rest reset the perils.
The Magicians is not the greatest show ever, but beyond having wonderful fantasy elements, the show is watchable for adults (sure, it's fantasy BS, but it isn't insultingly awful). And it's often sexy -- something weirdly missing from far too many TV shows.
@@tabletopalchemy Don't judge a series by its first season. Cardinal rule of watching fantasy. The other being, of course, never watch fantasy without a touch of madness in you... ...you'll miss the magic.
I watched until you said what the show was, paused the video, binged the show, then came back to finish. Great video essay and superb show. I agree with all the D&D-like stuff you mention. It's not like the creators went through the PHB and found spells to cast, it is more that as you say, the art is treated in a way that *feels* D&D like, and that is pretty rare and pretty great.
I've felt since reading the novel the way magic was treated was the closest to how I want magic to be treated in my own fictional universe. I also felt it was the most intriguing depiction in the show. I love the ideas of unintended consequence, or differing methods or procedures to produce like effects. It is so cool.
I love the discussion on the science of magic. I've always felt, as you, that it is not represented correctly in movies and other cinematic media. Thank you for pointing out this series.
Fantastic episode. I really like The Magicians tv series for the way they depict the somatic aspects of spellcasting, specifically showcasing the dexterity required.
The cool thing is that it’s just horribly mispronounced Irish (Anglo phonics being dropped on Gaelic words) What’s being said is; Anáil nathrach, ortha bháis is beatha, do chéal déanaimh (modern Irish). This translates as: Serpent's breath, charm of death and life, thy omen of making. I think that’s what makes it unsettling and sound authentic. It doesn’t do any harm that Excalibur was shot in Ireland too.
This looks like a really cool show! I do also like the way Dr. Strange in the Marvel movies depicts somatic components. Each spell is an elaborate dance of the hands and fingers creating the proper shape for the spell. But in this show based on what you've shown magic looks so much more raw. Like it's a force that a magician taps into but maybe not fully controls.
back when i watched jonathon strange and mr norrell i've always interpreted the two main characters as the difference between a wizard and a sorcerer. mr norrell does things very by the book, following formulas and understanding that there is a requirement and a cost to use magic in its various forms. jonathon strange often does things on a whim, sometimes trying things without thinking or researching. he does look into more powerful things of course, but often his actual use of magic is "this might work". at least going by what i remember from watching it some years ago
JSMN and The Magicians gave me the same vibes as The Expanse. All of them present a type of fantasy or sci-fi that seems to be rooted in reality. Very gratifying to watch.
Awesome that you gave a shout out to this book and series. Fantasy and sword and sorcery have always been my favorite genre, and this series was one of the best in recent memory. Criminally under represented.
I remember the show blew my mind when Strange was asked for a road. It's something so basic, so unflashy, so NOT a fireball, but it was absolutely vital and likely changed history. Time for a rewatch maybe.
Oh wow. You are nailing it. Before I even got into your content I noticed the quality of your lighting, the fact that you've blocked your shot asymetrically yet balanced, and your editing. Only to find out you ARE a pro. I think your channel is going to do well. It really stands out.
Well thanks a lot, much appreciated! It’s definitely more difficult to do all the stuff alone *while* being the on-camera “talent” lol but you know, if we ain’t winning, we learning!
I love how whenever they do magic in the show, and the sounds of wood creaking start occurring, it feels as if reality is a ship and the magic they've cast is causing that ship to alter course just enough for the sound of the timber under strain to be heard.
I absolutely *love* that series! I watched it four times the year it came out. I read the book and loved the footnotes that added to the worldbuilding. 10/10 would recommend it!
The video game "Outward" has pretty cool magic mechanics where to cast a powerful spell, smaller spells need to be cast in a particular order in order to cast the main spell.
One thing I related to D&D when I watched this series is how Mr. Norrell exemplifies the careful studied magic of a Wizard, while Strange exemplifies the wild intuitive magic of a Sorcerer. This is why he is able to do the first trick without understanding theory, and is able to improvise Sand Horses and other spectacular feats. As you alluded to, The Gentleman also offers to become an Archfey Patron to Mr. Norrell, neatly allowing all three major D&D spellcasting classes to exist in this universe. One thing I really like, unlike D&D, is that there is no hard delineation between these approaches. Strange becomes a better Sorcerer through study, and I'm certain Mr. Norrell could become a better Wizard by being far less rigid in his approach to magic... and of course they're both tempted by a pact with an otherworldly being.
Agreed! And I think that idea you like about how different approaches to learning are not inherently skewed towards “one right way” is exemplary of life in general lol.
4:36 I've always played under the assumption that the spells a player casts are the spells they were taught or made aware of, and with good enough skill checks can break those rules. I highly recommend using "spell-breaking" in your games. I allow players to make a check to bend the rules of the spell, in exchange if they fail it could be bended in a unpredictable way that could have consequences. It makes powerful magic feel like a force to be reckoned with, for the both the caster and the castee. (The skills I typically use are: Artificer: tool check, Bard: Instrument check, Cleric: Religion check, Druid: Nature check, Sorcerer: Usually because sorceress are strange I do a normal charisma check or let them use sorcery points, Warlock: Religion, or for more fun let the player take it into the hands of their patron, with little control over the way the spell is bent, but somehow beneficial, just maybe not how they expected, Wizard: Arcana)
It was a fantastic show! I immediately went out and picked up the book afterwards. The magic felt grounded, like it had ties to the world and costs to be borne. Then you had the contrast between the academia of magic and the personal and emotional creation of magic.
All of these clips look fantastic. I've always pictured my D&D campaigns in more of a 1800s time frame. I have got to check out this show because like you said, it's exactly what I picture when I play or run a D&D campaign.
@@tabletopalchemy A lot of times I felt myself resistant to traditional medieval times. I flock to steampunk because I prefer a more urban setting. This book and its adaptation just taps right into what I'm looking for. It's got some gritty magic without having to go full science fiction to get there. It's beautiful. This my first video from your channel, but I'll definitely be checking out more because we seem like kindred spirits.
I’ll need to check out this series at some point, but a lot of this is why I enjoy the Dresden Files by Jim Butcher. Private investigator wizard in modern Chicago who uses his talents to try and help people, spells having set rules on how they can or can’t work, where the energy has to come from or go when cast, materials and thought that goes into making magic tools and potions, all kinds of things that just make playing wizards that much better.
Interesting! Sometimes I have a hard time with genre mashups but I haven’t read any Dresden Files (and I loved Shadowrun so I’m just weird lol). I’ll check the books out.
@@tabletopalchemy I agree with hawkname and Aku, I can't recommend The Dresden Files enough. The first novel isn't the best of them, though still good. But if you consider that it was literally his first attempt at a long format story it's certainly impressive. The series pulls you in really quickly. Lots of great characters and it all just keeps building and building and building. They're very fun :)
The book is amazing and the show was wonderfully fulfilling. I adopted a lot from this show in my games. The idea that your state of mind has a lot to do with how magic is performed and the effects they have on mortal minds and bodies.
The cues that this video gave me is absolutely fantastic, i'm writing a D&D campaign , I haven't played for a long time and i found this hint of yours a treasure!
And fairies are not demonic! They're eldrick. They are not of mortal souls. Their desires and whims are something incomprehensible to a human. Think more lovecraftian, but without the tentacles.
This is how I felt at the end of west world season one, what a perfect single chunk of storytelling! Also The English! Both westerns I know but so so good finite stories, just like JSMN. JSMN makes me want more but I’d be nervous about it lol.
Surprisingly, the old Disney film Dragonslayer has always had a really nice D&D feel to me, particularly the rarity and difficulty of mastering magic. 4:17
the one season series of DC's Constantine, and the Animation movies of him did a good job at how magic works too. Willow (the original movie, not the current Crap show Disney made) did a good job of that too. The Anime "The Slayers" did a great job too. As did Record of Lodos War.
Don't see the D&D link myself, but Johnathan Strange & Mr. Norrell is one of the best alternative history novels ever written. . It's a satirical / alternate reality story about the rise of ' magic(k) societies like the Golden Dawn in the 19th century , and the how some upper class eccentrics took the study of grimoires & ritual magic serious . The first time i read it felt so realistic , i actually thought it was based on urban myths and folklore. I even looked up the books and sources online, and noticed wikipedia had a page because a lot of people fell for it as well 😅.
@@tabletopalchemy Yes she's is already one of the best writers in this genre . Thank god she did not become one of those 'one book a year ' , milk- it- out for every dollar ' writers. ;) But i hope she will write many more in the years to come. Anyway your video made me realize this series was made. Never noticed that before. So i'm giving it a try .
Great video! I really loved the magic system of “Jonathan Strange and Mr Norell” - it demonstrates the difference between magic used by practitioners and the magic of natural magicians like fairies
While watching the Merlin series, I was thinking about how I liked the the magic representation in the show. There was almost always verbal components, but not on the smallest spells, and there was kind of somatic movements but I sticking out hand doesn’t really count. Also Merlin is an almost exact representation of what I think a d&d wizard would look like, despite being called a “sorcerer” and “warlock” throughout the show.
My friends joke that "the book was better" will be written on my gravestone. Loved the book and liked this movie. It was pretty good within the limitations of the format, and did some small things that rewarded people who had read the book. I need to watch it again.
I also love how Mr. Norrell and Jonathan Strange express the difference between a Prepared/INT and a Spontaneous/CHA caster. Strange doesn’t remember how he does some spells, he comes up with new ones not recorded, and he takes inspiration from what he sees and feels to make things happen - to great effect. Mr. Norrell is incredibly bound his knowledge of magic and spells, possesses numerous spells from the various books he has (and loans to Strange). Lastly, he attempts his own cantrip in his fight with Strange…and barely conjures a sprinkle of water. It’s definitely a wonderful mix of things. Loved this show and glad you highlighted it! Edit: I also love the interplay between magicians and religion. They aren’t separate. After Strange casts Speaking Dead and then Comprehend Language, he runs off to a corner and begins praying. Additionally, one of Strange’s confidants is a pastor also. He’s there, supports him, watches him cast spells. Edit: I’m glad you showed the Waterloo fight! Especially when the commander yells at him to stop making rain.
One show that I've seen that does a great job of tying somantic and verbal elements in magic is "Motherland: Fort Salem". Probably not on your radar as it is solidly YA/teen show on a FXX but my wife started watching it and I absolutely loved the way they used "songs" as their basis of their spell casting. Really leaning into the physical production of their songs to produce their magical effects really impressed me and they layered in more other elements throughout the run of the show. As a person who loves to sing, I really like this shows represtentation of magic. Thanks for the thoughtful vid and happy gaming!
This was on my list of books to maybe check out some day, but this video sold me. I know I will love the show and probably the book. Ordering both. This kind of depiction of magic is right up my alley.
Excellent! The book is written in a stylish Dickensian sort of prose I thought would turn me off, but I’ve read it twice now and all her other work as well!
You're already pretty good at this. If this is the awkward teenage years of this channel, in a year or two I think you could be a top tier content creator. Matt Colville might be the only other content creator I've seen come out this fully formed.
Hey thank you very much! All I know is that more the channel grows the less I gotta think about things cause I tend to get overthink sometimes when I definitely should not lol. Colville is fantastic!
The real magic in the book is how it conjures up its Napoleonic characters through its language, and how the standards of the time limit their thoughts and actions. Quote: "Well sir, a magician could. But gentleman most certainly never would!" For me, Clarke's book will always be one of the greatest (and probably most underrated) fantasy reads of all times.
Awesome! Thanks for creating this! I loved Dr. S and Mr. N quite a bit; especially the mix of magic and sense of wonder. It felt very real in the world Sussanna Clarke created! Best!
the magicians is another interesting series that has a neat magic system with various verbal/somatic/material components, they even showed a bag of holding in one episode ;)
The Fey in this series is played by Marc Warren, Paul Kaye plays the man born with the book of the Raven King written upon him. But great video and definitely something to think about for fantasy role playing games.
You’re right lol - I pinned a prev comment pointing out my mistake. (I feel so bad lol, nothing worse than someone else being credited for your work, sheesh!)
@@tabletopalchemy The mad thing is I’m a Brit, I play RPG, I love this sort of show...and I had never even heard of this series. I guess I have some catching up to do lol.
I really enjoyed how they portrayed magic in the Warcraft movie. They took to effort to get the somatic stuff correct and the mage in the story showed how exerting it was on him each time he was casting a spell.
I didn't mind the movie, but I'm not a WOW nerd, I've never played the game. But the way magic was done made it entertaining alone, without it I probably wouldn't have liked it.
you should check out the magicians. I loved that (I know it's different from the book by a county mile) they had hand exercises to prep their somatic components for spells.
I know many many comments have already said this, but as soon as you started talking I thought this video was going to be about The Magicians. Absolutely fantastic show! The magic system is possibly one of my favorites I've ever seen! Hope you'll check it out. Great video here and I'll have to find this show and give it a watch!
One of my favorite fantasy books (technically series) which I like to recommend to other DMs and players for magic inspiration, is the Riddlemaster trilogy by Patricia A. Mckillip. It's definitely pretty soft magic, and doesn't have as much in the way of unique mechanics compared to what was demonstrated here (although it does have a few really cool ones, especially in the second book, such as when a character places a tangle of string as a trap that makes the person who steps on it follow the mixed up path that the string takes, very like a maze spell), but it's got really good descriptions; not so much of the physical events, but of the experience of casting (and also things like will saves and spell DCs, some of the magic feels very compatible with those kinds of game mechanics imo). When I read a Brandon Sanderson book I know pretty much exactly how the magic works, but when I read Riddlemaster, I know what the magic like. Which I think is actually the more useful thing for D&D.
Oh this is great! I’ve read only one book by her and I loved it and I forgot the title 20 years ago and I’ve been trying to find it since! I’ll check this series out thanks!
My first video of you. I like your manner, demeanor and even your voice. Its refreshing, and easy to listen to. The content of what you're saying is fantastic as i have also been a fan of using the three components of spellcasting myself. You earned a sub with this guy!
Love the drawing of Susanna Clarke into DnD. Thank you for this wonderful comparison. I have read and watched the story, but did not draw the connection to Gaming. Well done. Have you read Piranesi?
Awesome! Yep, read Piranesi few months ago, loved it. Very surreal of course but there’s just something about her writing and storytelling I really enjoy. I also like her short stories!
A vid on world building will be in the pipeline but I gotta work a lot more in my own before I can discuss the process with any confidence. Now a vid talking about other artists world building is much more doable and sooner rather than later. Thank u for the prompt!
Another series aired around the same time as Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell: The Magicians (TV Series 2015-2020) where the motions of making magic is more than waving a wand.
I wondered if anyone else had watched this series. I enjoyed it and the audio books. The thing with the show was that each actor had to practice their hand/finger gestures and not everyone couldn’t do certain movements due to their own limitations.
I also like the way Magic skill is shown in the Warhammer movie (really the only thing about that movie I really liked). A novice has to meticulously draw the cricles, gather the ingredients and speak the incantation while a grandmaster can just wave a hand. This shows all the ritual and components to be focus items, keeping the will and concentration of the magician on the task of casting. The more experienced one is with a particular spell, the less ritual and components one needs as a "crutch". I am implementing this in a TTRPG I am currently working on creating. Each spell has its own experience levels, with the highest being Cantrip, which signifies that one has cast the spell so many times, it has become as routine as breathing.
Ah interesting concept with the spell levels! Nice! Yeah I kinda blocked the Warcraft movie out of my mind lol but someone else mentioned the magic use too.
@@tabletopalchemy i the first few episodes are kind of slow but the show gets waaaay better and a lot more intense as it goes on. the other worlds they go to and the beings they meet are awesome, terrifying and hilarious.
Woah lol. I was going to watch whatever you recommended. Then you showed me Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell, a book I've had on my shelf for a decade, and a show I finished watched two days ago. Feels nice for my favorite to be recognized for once.
Wow, brother! I am a recent subscriber, and I really appreciate your insight and experience, not to mention your intelligence. I am not much of an RPG player, but I am heavily into making miniature terrain for the RPG world. Thank you for insightful commentary. -Rick, USMC.
Hoo-ah! Thanks man, much appreciated. I don’t know how my “intelligence” illusion spell will hold, I’m sure it’ll collapse sooner rather than later lol! USMC! I went thru basic at Knox (Army, scout) and on Sundays Marine tankers would stand in lines with us to use the phones, so I got to hear a bit about how y’all’s training was. I was glad I hadn’t gone Marines lol I don’t think I’d have made it! Much respect.
![How To Create a Pantheon for Your Homebrew DnD or TTRPG World [Ep. 05]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Nle8g_4G4GE/mqdefault.jpg)
Great episode. I love the notion of bringing magic back in magic wherever I find it.
An insignificant nitpick: Paul Kaye plays Vinculus, the Gentleman is played by Marc Warren.
Dammit, I knew I’d mess something up like that! Thanks for pointing that out. And I’m glad u liked the vid!
I recognized him from Band of Brothers where he played Blithe. I really respect the way you handled the correction.@@tabletopalchemy
years ago when I played D&D. Our group was complaining it didn't seem fair we could only remember so few spells.
so our DM created a magic method for us. to prove the point.
when ever a magic user learnt a new spell he would hand that person a scrap of paper with a number of non sense syllables written on it, around 3 per lvl of the spell.
you were not allowed to write them down or use a cheet sheet.
but he kept one for himself.
you were allowed to remember as many as you actually could.
but you had to recite it on spell cast, and if you got it wrong he would hit you with some misfire consequences.
to this day I still remember some of my spells (its been over 30 years)
Lol that’s genius! What a great experience (although probly harsh at the table lol).
Fun! Though I kind of agree with your group. I’ve always found the ‘cast and forget’ idea absurd. I use a different system where you need to study a spell for a long time to lear it but then you know it. Casting is limited by mental drain requiring the mage to rest and sleep after a certain amount of magic.
@@mockupguy3577 That's why I like the "perils" system in magic.
Whenever you cast a spell, you throw a dice of perils, the more potent the spell, the more dices thrown.
Your wizard has a limit of how much perils he can sustain. If you go overboard, the magic unstability is released and causes havoc on the wizard and maybe others around with various possible effects. A long rest reset the perils.
@@vukkulvar9769 , that’s good
I need to ability to save comments for reference. This is gold.
I enjoyed much of the show “the Magicians,” because they used lots of verbal and somatic casting.
i loved when they learned battle magic and it was magic missile.
I was thinking the same thing as soon as he started talking about the usage of gestures and verbal commands. "The Magicians" rewrote the book on that.
The Magicians is not the greatest show ever, but beyond having wonderful fantasy elements, the show is watchable for adults (sure, it's fantasy BS, but it isn't insultingly awful). And it's often sexy -- something weirdly missing from far too many TV shows.
It’s on my list now, I remember watching some of the first episode and not being captured by it but I’m famous for second opinion viewings lol.
@@tabletopalchemy Don't judge a series by its first season. Cardinal rule of watching fantasy.
The other being, of course, never watch fantasy without a touch of madness in you...
...you'll miss the magic.
I watched until you said what the show was, paused the video, binged the show, then came back to finish. Great video essay and superb show. I agree with all the D&D-like stuff you mention. It's not like the creators went through the PHB and found spells to cast, it is more that as you say, the art is treated in a way that *feels* D&D like, and that is pretty rare and pretty great.
Awesome! So glad u liked it! Yeah I def feel like a lot of stuff draws from a common well for sure.
I've felt since reading the novel the way magic was treated was the closest to how I want magic to be treated in my own fictional universe. I also felt it was the most intriguing depiction in the show. I love the ideas of unintended consequence, or differing methods or procedures to produce like effects. It is so cool.
100% 🤙
The show is based on what might be the greatest fantasy novel to come out since Tolkien. Seriously. It's so worth reading.
100% agree!
I love the discussion on the science of magic. I've always felt, as you, that it is not represented correctly in movies and other cinematic media. Thank you for pointing out this series.
Fantastic episode. I really like The Magicians tv series for the way they depict the somatic aspects of spellcasting, specifically showcasing the dexterity required.
Others have mentioned this series so it’s on my list now. Glad u liked the vid!
@@tabletopalchemy have you never watched The Magicians? It's definitely a great show. really enjoying your videos.
@roland haven’t seen the Magicians yet - glad u dig the content, thanks!
The setting lent so much to this series that the magic is just “well, of course it works that way”. I really enjoyed this show!
Yeah I like this setting and the Victorian era’s aesthetic for dnd!
You have no idea how happy I am to see this show getting more love. The book and show are both wonderful but seem to have gone mostly under the radar.
I agree! I really liked her short stories and her latest novel too!
I read Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell back in 2006 and it totally shaped how I judge magic in fantasy. Glad we got a good adaptation of it.
One of the best fantasy novels IMO. A true underrated masterpiece.
Agreed!
I thought Jonathan Strange was a book about regular detectives...this is a valuable lesson to never assume again.
Lol!
Merlin’s magic as portrayed in the old 1980 film Excalibur was always inspiring to me. An Al nathrach, orth’ bhais’s bethad, do chel denmha.
Yeah Excalibur is a great example. That flick always makes me feel vaguely uneasy lol it’s pretty wild.
The cool thing is that it’s just horribly mispronounced Irish (Anglo phonics being dropped on Gaelic words)
What’s being said is; Anáil nathrach, ortha bháis is beatha, do chéal déanaimh (modern Irish). This translates as: Serpent's breath, charm of death and life, thy omen of making. I think that’s what makes it unsettling and sound authentic. It doesn’t do any harm that Excalibur was shot in Ireland too.
Hush you madman! Are you trying to wake the dragon!?
I am so happy someone is doing an essay on this show!
yes, like having the power of the cosmos, but confined to a lamp. everything has limitation and price. we really need more of these.
Dragon Prince is cool. I like the way material components are used and how the casters somatically paint runes in the air to prep the spell. Neat.
Ah I haven’t seen that I don’t think, I’ll have to check it out,
I was also going to mention The Dragon Prince. It's portrayal of magic is one of my favorites.
@@jimjones7980 Decided to scroll the comments to see if someone mentioned this particular show.
This looks like a really cool show! I do also like the way Dr. Strange in the Marvel movies depicts somatic components. Each spell is an elaborate dance of the hands and fingers creating the proper shape for the spell. But in this show based on what you've shown magic looks so much more raw. Like it's a force that a magician taps into but maybe not fully controls.
I think that’s a good assessment of the magic, it’s like a natural resource or something and they have to engineer ways to access/manipulate it.
Wow thanks for turning me on to this excellent series!
Totally welcome!
That show was a fantastic portrayal of magic use. One Wizard and one Sorcerer. Cool video!
Definitely!
I ritually watch this show once a year since I saw it first. The book is also my all time favorite fantasy novel!
Both versions are so good! 🍻
Just ordered it on Amazon. Thanks for the recommendation. Looks great.
Awesome! I sure hope you’re not disappointed lol I accept full responsibility.
back when i watched jonathon strange and mr norrell i've always interpreted the two main characters as the difference between a wizard and a sorcerer. mr norrell does things very by the book, following formulas and understanding that there is a requirement and a cost to use magic in its various forms. jonathon strange often does things on a whim, sometimes trying things without thinking or researching. he does look into more powerful things of course, but often his actual use of magic is "this might work".
at least going by what i remember from watching it some years ago
I think that’s a pretty accurate take!
Absolutely loved this show
🍻
JSMN and The Magicians gave me the same vibes as The Expanse. All of them present a type of fantasy or sci-fi that seems to be rooted in reality. Very gratifying to watch.
Awesome that you gave a shout out to this book and series. Fantasy and sword and sorcery have always been my favorite genre, and this series was one of the best in recent memory. Criminally under represented.
THANK YOU for referring me to that show. So far we're just over half way through it and I think it's amazing! So underrated.
Glad u dig it!
@@tabletopalchemy thoroughly.
I remember the show blew my mind when Strange was asked for a road. It's something so basic, so unflashy, so NOT a fireball, but it was absolutely vital and likely changed history.
Time for a rewatch maybe.
That got me like that on my first read of the book too! Utilitarian/strategic use of practical magic. I loved that.
Oh wow. You are nailing it. Before I even got into your content I noticed the quality of your lighting, the fact that you've blocked your shot asymetrically yet balanced, and your editing. Only to find out you ARE a pro. I think your channel is going to do well. It really stands out.
Well thanks a lot, much appreciated! It’s definitely more difficult to do all the stuff alone *while* being the on-camera “talent” lol but you know, if we ain’t winning, we learning!
I subscribed almost instantly; I concur with this prediction!
You reminded me how much I loved this show. Damn gotta go by this for xmas.
I love how whenever they do magic in the show, and the sounds of wood creaking start occurring, it feels as if reality is a ship and the magic they've cast is causing that ship to alter course just enough for the sound of the timber under strain to be heard.
Agreed! Like moving between realms is stressing the reality lol. 🍻
I absolutely *love* that series! I watched it four times the year it came out. I read the book and loved the footnotes that added to the worldbuilding. 10/10 would recommend it!
It’s probably the only book I’ve read 100% of the footnotes of lol! 🍻
The video game "Outward" has pretty cool magic mechanics where to cast a powerful spell, smaller spells need to be cast in a particular order in order to cast the main spell.
Oh I like that game a lot. I’m terrible at it but it’s a very cool game!
One thing I related to D&D when I watched this series is how Mr. Norrell exemplifies the careful studied magic of a Wizard, while Strange exemplifies the wild intuitive magic of a Sorcerer. This is why he is able to do the first trick without understanding theory, and is able to improvise Sand Horses and other spectacular feats. As you alluded to, The Gentleman also offers to become an Archfey Patron to Mr. Norrell, neatly allowing all three major D&D spellcasting classes to exist in this universe.
One thing I really like, unlike D&D, is that there is no hard delineation between these approaches. Strange becomes a better Sorcerer through study, and I'm certain Mr. Norrell could become a better Wizard by being far less rigid in his approach to magic... and of course they're both tempted by a pact with an otherworldly being.
Agreed! And I think that idea you like about how different approaches to learning are not inherently skewed towards “one right way” is exemplary of life in general lol.
defo make this a series my guy, would love to see more inspiration like this
🍻 Awesome! I break down my sorta “topic” schedule in my first video on the channel to hopefully give some sort of expectation lol.
4:36 I've always played under the assumption that the spells a player casts are the spells they were taught or made aware of, and with good enough skill checks can break those rules. I highly recommend using "spell-breaking" in your games. I allow players to make a check to bend the rules of the spell, in exchange if they fail it could be bended in a unpredictable way that could have consequences. It makes powerful magic feel like a force to be reckoned with, for the both the caster and the castee.
(The skills I typically use are: Artificer: tool check, Bard: Instrument check, Cleric: Religion check, Druid: Nature check, Sorcerer: Usually because sorceress are strange I do a normal charisma check or let them use sorcery points, Warlock: Religion, or for more fun let the player take it into the hands of their patron, with little control over the way the spell is bent, but somehow beneficial, just maybe not how they expected, Wizard: Arcana)
Very cool ideas! I love the concept of “spell bending”!
It was a fantastic show! I immediately went out and picked up the book afterwards. The magic felt grounded, like it had ties to the world and costs to be borne. Then you had the contrast between the academia of magic and the personal and emotional creation of magic.
What a great show!
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All of these clips look fantastic. I've always pictured my D&D campaigns in more of a 1800s time frame. I have got to check out this show because like you said, it's exactly what I picture when I play or run a D&D campaign.
I really like the setting too, more than traditional medieval for sure. Just my own personal aesthetic. 🍻
@@tabletopalchemy A lot of times I felt myself resistant to traditional medieval times. I flock to steampunk because I prefer a more urban setting. This book and its adaptation just taps right into what I'm looking for. It's got some gritty magic without having to go full science fiction to get there. It's beautiful. This my first video from your channel, but I'll definitely be checking out more because we seem like kindred spirits.
Awesome! Check out my first video, I explain my sorta topical release schedule etc.
@@tabletopalchemy thanks.
I’ll need to check out this series at some point, but a lot of this is why I enjoy the Dresden Files by Jim Butcher. Private investigator wizard in modern Chicago who uses his talents to try and help people, spells having set rules on how they can or can’t work, where the energy has to come from or go when cast, materials and thought that goes into making magic tools and potions, all kinds of things that just make playing wizards that much better.
Interesting! Sometimes I have a hard time with genre mashups but I haven’t read any Dresden Files (and I loved Shadowrun so I’m just weird lol). I’ll check the books out.
@@tabletopalchemy Dresden Files are the best modern magic stories BY A MILE. They are so good!
@@tabletopalchemy I agree with hawkname and Aku, I can't recommend The Dresden Files enough. The first novel isn't the best of them, though still good. But if you consider that it was literally his first attempt at a long format story it's certainly impressive. The series pulls you in really quickly. Lots of great characters and it all just keeps building and building and building. They're very fun :)
I didn't know this show existed, going to check it out right now. Many thanks
The book is amazing and the show was wonderfully fulfilling. I adopted a lot from this show in my games. The idea that your state of mind has a lot to do with how magic is performed and the effects they have on mortal minds and bodies.
The cues that this video gave me is absolutely fantastic, i'm writing a D&D campaign , I haven't played for a long time and i found this hint of yours a treasure!
Excellent! Super glad u liked it!
Curse you for reminding me of such an excellent series THAT NEVER GOT A SECOND SEASON!!!!! This has been a hole etched in my soul deeper than Firefly.
And fairies are not demonic! They're eldrick. They are not of mortal souls. Their desires and whims are something incomprehensible to a human. Think more lovecraftian, but without the tentacles.
Lol we all share the pain!
It was a mini series. It was never meant to get another season
This is how I felt at the end of west world season one, what a perfect single chunk of storytelling! Also The English! Both westerns I know but so so good finite stories, just like JSMN. JSMN makes me want more but I’d be nervous about it lol.
had to stop myself just about halfway through, now I'm gonna have to finish the book and come back :)
Surprisingly, the old Disney film Dragonslayer has always had a really nice D&D feel to me, particularly the rarity and difficulty of mastering magic. 4:17
Oh I have to revisit that one!
the one season series of DC's Constantine, and the Animation movies of him did a good job at how magic works too. Willow (the original movie, not the current Crap show Disney made) did a good job of that too. The Anime "The Slayers" did a great job too. As did Record of Lodos War.
Oh Lodos War! I’ve got an awesome art book of that series. I haven’t seen the Constantine show, I’ll have to check it out.
Don't see the D&D link myself, but Johnathan Strange & Mr. Norrell is one of the best alternative history novels ever written. . It's a satirical / alternate reality story about the rise of ' magic(k) societies like the Golden Dawn in the 19th century , and the how some upper class eccentrics took the study of grimoires & ritual magic serious . The first time i read it felt so realistic , i actually thought it was based on urban myths and folklore. I even looked up the books and sources online, and noticed wikipedia had a page because a lot of people fell for it as well 😅.
Lol yes! I’ve really enjoyed all her writing, she’s got a unique style of both prose and storytelling. Always great characters too.
@@tabletopalchemy Yes she's is already one of the best writers in this genre . Thank god she did not become one of those 'one book a year ' , milk- it- out for every dollar ' writers. ;)
But i hope she will write many more in the years to come. Anyway your video made me realize this series was made. Never noticed that before. So i'm giving it a try .
A solid show and a solid observation concerning the depiction of magic. This is a fantastic overview; well done.
Wow this was a fantastic video and I really enjoyed it. The portrayal of magic in the show is excellent and how it should be in more adaptations!
Glad u liked it!
Great video! I really loved the magic system of “Jonathan Strange and Mr Norell” - it demonstrates the difference between magic used by practitioners and the magic of natural magicians like fairies
Totally! Thank you!
Totally loved this show! Great show with a very grounded, practical, believable approach to magic, and visually stunning!
And oh my, the book's description of magic is powerful and poetic.
Very!
This show was amazing and I need to rewatch it. Definitely picked up inspiration from this show. Fantastic video.
Right on! I’ve read the book twice, it’s just so cool!
Yes, I loved this show! The moment I saw the mud hand crush I remember screaming "Holy shit that's Earthen Grasp!"
Lol yep! And Control Water happens right before that!
This is the first I’ve heard of the adaptation, the book was a great blend of elements. I’ll add it to the list!
While watching the Merlin series, I was thinking about how I liked the the magic representation in the show. There was almost always verbal components, but not on the smallest spells, and there was kind of somatic movements but I sticking out hand doesn’t really count. Also Merlin is an almost exact representation of what I think a d&d wizard would look like, despite being called a “sorcerer” and “warlock” throughout the show.
Yeah good points!
My friends joke that "the book was better" will be written on my gravestone. Loved the book and liked this movie. It was pretty good within the limitations of the format, and did some small things that rewarded people who had read the book. I need to watch it again.
I think that’s a common epitaph lol!
I also love how Mr. Norrell and Jonathan Strange express the difference between a Prepared/INT and a Spontaneous/CHA caster.
Strange doesn’t remember how he does some spells, he comes up with new ones not recorded, and he takes inspiration from what he sees and feels to make things happen - to great effect.
Mr. Norrell is incredibly bound his knowledge of magic and spells, possesses numerous spells from the various books he has (and loans to Strange). Lastly, he attempts his own cantrip in his fight with Strange…and barely conjures a sprinkle of water.
It’s definitely a wonderful mix of things. Loved this show and glad you highlighted it!
Edit: I also love the interplay between magicians and religion. They aren’t separate. After Strange casts Speaking Dead and then Comprehend Language, he runs off to a corner and begins praying. Additionally, one of Strange’s confidants is a pastor also. He’s there, supports him, watches him cast spells.
Edit: I’m glad you showed the Waterloo fight! Especially when the commander yells at him to stop making rain.
Lol awesome!
This show is SOOO good. Love it love it love it.
One show that I've seen that does a great job of tying somantic and verbal elements in magic is "Motherland: Fort Salem". Probably not on your radar as it is solidly YA/teen show on a FXX but my wife started watching it and I absolutely loved the way they used "songs" as their basis of their spell casting. Really leaning into the physical production of their songs to produce their magical effects really impressed me and they layered in more other elements throughout the run of the show. As a person who loves to sing, I really like this shows represtentation of magic. Thanks for the thoughtful vid and happy gaming!
You’re right I’ve never heard of it! I’ll try to check it out, thanks!
This was on my list of books to maybe check out some day, but this video sold me. I know I will love the show and probably the book. Ordering both. This kind of depiction of magic is right up my alley.
Excellent! The book is written in a stylish Dickensian sort of prose I thought would turn me off, but I’ve read it twice now and all her other work as well!
The magic used in the BBC show Merlin was pretty inspirational to me, just the sequences to learn some of those spells and the certain rare components
You're already pretty good at this. If this is the awkward teenage years of this channel, in a year or two I think you could be a top tier content creator. Matt Colville might be the only other content creator I've seen come out this fully formed.
Hey thank you very much! All I know is that more the channel grows the less I gotta think about things cause I tend to get overthink sometimes when I definitely should not lol. Colville is fantastic!
HOLY BAHAMUT! You've gained literal thousands of subscribers overnight! I really enjoy your content; it's super inspiring for DMing ideas!
Lol yeah lil crazy. Glad u dig the content!
The real magic in the book is how it conjures up its Napoleonic characters through its language, and how the standards of the time limit their thoughts and actions. Quote: "Well sir, a magician could. But gentleman most certainly never would!" For me, Clarke's book will always be one of the greatest (and probably most underrated) fantasy reads of all times.
Agreed, 100%! Have you checked out her latest: Piranesi? A genuine trip!
Awesome! Thanks for creating this! I loved Dr. S and Mr. N quite a bit; especially the mix of magic and sense of wonder. It felt very real in the world Sussanna Clarke created! Best!
Love 'Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrel', and always go back to it as my inspiration for 'Mage: The Awakening' games.
Someone else mentioned Mage, I’ll have to check that game out!
JS&MR is my absolute gold standard for fantasy feel
the magicians is another interesting series that has a neat magic system with various verbal/somatic/material components, they even showed a bag of holding in one episode ;)
I’ve heard this quite a bit lol it’s on my list!
The Fey in this series is played by Marc Warren, Paul Kaye plays the man born with the book of the Raven King written upon him. But great video and definitely something to think about for fantasy role playing games.
You’re right lol - I pinned a prev comment pointing out my mistake. (I feel so bad lol, nothing worse than someone else being credited for your work, sheesh!)
@@tabletopalchemy The mad thing is I’m a Brit, I play RPG, I love this sort of show...and I had never even heard of this series. I guess I have some catching up to do lol.
Lol that is pretty funny! 🍻
I really enjoyed how they portrayed magic in the Warcraft movie. They took to effort to get the somatic stuff correct and the mage in the story showed how exerting it was on him each time he was casting a spell.
This is true - I didn’t like the movie at all as a whole so I haven’t thought about it much, but I do recall liking several disparate elements of it.
@@tabletopalchemy agreed. Definitely a great movie at all, but I liked the magic scenes a bit.
I didn't mind the movie, but I'm not a WOW nerd, I've never played the game. But the way magic was done made it entertaining alone, without it I probably wouldn't have liked it.
One of the great fantasy books. Susanna Clarke deserves much praise.
Strange and Norell was an awesome show. It’s portrayal of magic made it look like it was possible.
Yeah! I just like the whole “world building”, works really well for me!
you should check out the magicians. I loved that (I know it's different from the book by a county mile) they had hand exercises to prep their somatic components for spells.
This series has been mentioned quite a few times, I need to check it out.
I've never heard of this series and I am SO upset I never heard of this!
If there is a dvd/blue-ray of this show I will diffidently going to get this!
My sister was able to check it out from her local library on dvd so hopefully u can find it!
@@tabletopalchemy Not sure if my library would have it but again will keep an eye out for it! :D Thanks again!
This book and it’s series are wonderful!
It was such a GREAT show... I only wish it received a second season or even a third and forth as I just so thoroughly enjoyed it.
I agree! I want a sequel either in show or book form for sure!
the magic in this show is so good
I know many many comments have already said this, but as soon as you started talking I thought this video was going to be about The Magicians. Absolutely fantastic show! The magic system is possibly one of my favorites I've ever seen! Hope you'll check it out. Great video here and I'll have to find this show and give it a watch!
Planning on it!
We loved this show, I had to buy it on Blu-ray as it’s hard to find
Yeah I bought it on vudu, set to reclaiming the shelf space from discs lol
Love the content.
But I subscribed because I LOVE your vibe.
You had me cracking up the whole time while still engaged in the material.....wow
Well that’s pretty cool to hear, thank you lol.
I just found your channel. Love the presentation and info. Solid work. Subscribed, and I'll tell my friends.
Awesome, much appreciated!
One of my favorite fantasy books (technically series) which I like to recommend to other DMs and players for magic inspiration, is the Riddlemaster trilogy by Patricia A. Mckillip. It's definitely pretty soft magic, and doesn't have as much in the way of unique mechanics compared to what was demonstrated here (although it does have a few really cool ones, especially in the second book, such as when a character places a tangle of string as a trap that makes the person who steps on it follow the mixed up path that the string takes, very like a maze spell), but it's got really good descriptions; not so much of the physical events, but of the experience of casting (and also things like will saves and spell DCs, some of the magic feels very compatible with those kinds of game mechanics imo). When I read a Brandon Sanderson book I know pretty much exactly how the magic works, but when I read Riddlemaster, I know what the magic like. Which I think is actually the more useful thing for D&D.
Oh this is great! I’ve read only one book by her and I loved it and I forgot the title 20 years ago and I’ve been trying to find it since! I’ll check this series out thanks!
That was great. I'd forgotten how much I like the show and book. Thanks for the video!!
My first video of you. I like your manner, demeanor and even your voice. Its refreshing, and easy to listen to.
The content of what you're saying is fantastic as i have also been a fan of using the three components of spellcasting myself. You earned a sub with this guy!
Awesome, thank you very much!
I feel very lucky to see this channel at this time... it's gonna be big!! Keep the good work!
Well thank you very much!
I think we are entering an age were having experiences are more important to people. Your video supports that notion. Love it!
Ah thanks!
Thank you! Excellent content!
Much appreciated!
Love the drawing of Susanna Clarke into DnD. Thank you for this wonderful comparison. I have read and watched the story, but did not draw the connection to Gaming. Well done.
Have you read Piranesi?
Awesome! Yep, read Piranesi few months ago, loved it. Very surreal of course but there’s just something about her writing and storytelling I really enjoy. I also like her short stories!
@@tabletopalchemy maybe you should do a video on world building ot how to create a labyrinth like Piranesi's castle.
A vid on world building will be in the pipeline but I gotta work a lot more in my own before I can discuss the process with any confidence. Now a vid talking about other artists world building is much more doable and sooner rather than later. Thank u for the prompt!
I love the magic in this show so much!
Another series aired around the same time as Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell: The Magicians (TV Series 2015-2020) where the motions of making magic is more than waving a wand.
Yes! I’ve seen quite a few mentions of that show, I need to check it out.
I'll have to check out this show It sounds awesome
Right on! Unfortunately I had to buy it on vudu, it used to be on Netflix but who knows if it’ll return there.
Another incredible show is the aptly named The Magicians. The do a lot of finger tutting for the somatic components.
I haven’t watched that one, it shall go in the queue, thank you.
I wondered if anyone else had watched this series. I enjoyed it and the audio books. The thing with the show was that each actor had to practice their hand/finger gestures and not everyone couldn’t do certain movements due to their own limitations.
Ah interesting.
I also like the way Magic skill is shown in the Warhammer movie (really the only thing about that movie I really liked). A novice has to meticulously draw the cricles, gather the ingredients and speak the incantation while a grandmaster can just wave a hand. This shows all the ritual and components to be focus items, keeping the will and concentration of the magician on the task of casting. The more experienced one is with a particular spell, the less ritual and components one needs as a "crutch".
I am implementing this in a TTRPG I am currently working on creating. Each spell has its own experience levels, with the highest being Cantrip, which signifies that one has cast the spell so many times, it has become as routine as breathing.
Ah interesting concept with the spell levels! Nice! Yeah I kinda blocked the Warcraft movie out of my mind lol but someone else mentioned the magic use too.
the magicians tv show on the syfy channel really nailed the somatic components. check it out if you want some inspiration for that side of things.
It’s on my list 😎
@@tabletopalchemy i the first few episodes are kind of slow but the show gets waaaay better and a lot more intense as it goes on. the other worlds they go to and the beings they meet are awesome, terrifying and hilarious.
All right I’ll give it a shot lol
I haven't played D&D in many years but still love it, this was a very cool video, I will have to check out this series 😁
Woah lol. I was going to watch whatever you recommended. Then you showed me Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell, a book I've had on my shelf for a decade, and a show I finished watched two days ago. Feels nice for my favorite to be recognized for once.
Lol awesome! Weird how the universe works sometimes right? 🍻
Wow, brother! I am a recent subscriber, and I really appreciate your insight and experience, not to mention your intelligence. I am not much of an RPG player, but I am heavily into making miniature terrain for the RPG world. Thank you for insightful commentary. -Rick, USMC.
Hoo-ah! Thanks man, much appreciated. I don’t know how my “intelligence” illusion spell will hold, I’m sure it’ll collapse sooner rather than later lol! USMC! I went thru basic at Knox (Army, scout) and on Sundays Marine tankers would stand in lines with us to use the phones, so I got to hear a bit about how y’all’s training was. I was glad I hadn’t gone Marines lol I don’t think I’d have made it! Much respect.
Would have never found this series were it not for this popup in my YT selection. Thanks!
🍻
Loved the book too.