MiSTer FPGA and a 3DO Core! Is It Possible? Let's Find Out
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- Опубликовано: 22 май 2024
- Lately I’ve been getting a TON of question in regards to MiSTer FPGA cores and if they’d be possible…probably because of the MiSTer FPGA N64 core. Leading the charge lately? the 3DO…home of the best port of Street Fighter II, Gex, Road Rash, The Need for Speed and of COURSE Killing Time! Because who wouldn't want 3DO on MiSTer FPGA and a 3DO FPGA core!
and if you need any MiSTer FPGA review videos, MiSTer FPGA guide videos or MiSTer FPGA vs emulation videos...check the playlist!
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Now that the Nintendo 64 MiSTer FPGA core has proven to be very possible...my comments section and my Discord DMs keep lighting up with questions like "Could MiSTer FPGA run X"...and the number one question of all is whether or not MiSTer FPGA could handle the 3DO console. So let's look at the 3DO hardware, the MiSTer FPGA hardware, break down the technical specifications and see if 3DO is truly the impossible core or if we have another MiSTer FPGA N64 core situation on our hands!
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I asked, you answered...and I try to listen :) Of all the requests for new content on the channel one of the most frequently asked for videos is a series on the Terasic DE-10 Nano MiSTer FPGA hardware...so here it is! Retro gaming goodness.
On this episode of our MiSTer series we are going to be talking the Panasonic 3DO...Most Famously known for Plumbers Don't Wear Ties
Because there are some seriously hidden gem retro games on 3DO
Questions? Comments? Just leave them below and I will do my best to answer each and every one of them!
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#retrogaming #retrogames #retrogamer #misterfpga #emulation #emulator 
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Man, Panasonic user guide for the 3DO has to be the most packed out, detailed manual I have ever seen for a console, it goes into architecture and DAC specs and all sorts, I have never seen that before.
3DO documented hardware and the SDK for both this and the M2 better than any other company ever documented gaming hardware. They were documenting champions
Panasonic even documented the service menu values for their CRTS
Some engineer there really loved writing docs
@@VideoGameEsotericaI've heard they weren't as good with documentation on the software side
As a technical writer whose entire job (and wage and therefore living) is documenting hardware for a big chip company: WOAH THOSE MANUALS ARE REALLY WELL DONE, AND SEEM ACTUALLY NOT THAT ARCANE!!!
Because lemme tell you, chip documentation these days is... it's too complicated and there's too much bajillion things 😭😭😭
I'm working on such a tiny segment of a thing at *company* and yet, I'm pretty sure that on just that we have documentation than for the entire 3DO (though in totality, the 3DO is probably better and more coherent).
Ahhhhh man, chips got too complicated. Can't we just like... use the modern tools and SDKs that we have but limit the performance to like Switch level (which is to say 360++ graphic levels + a better CPU honestly) ?
Thanks for the video!
3DO truly is the gold standard for documentation. Leaves nothing up to interpretation
The best “failed” console of all time. Underrated & completely misunderstood, YEARS ahead of its time. Even with future ports to PS1, there are so many exclusives & fun weird gaming gems to explore from this experimental era. Some of my best gaming memories involve the 3DO! I need this to happen.
You get it!
If any console needs some kind of turbo core, it's the 3DO. Would love to play Wing Commander 3 with better performance.
Yes an overclocked core would be great
3DO on MiSTer in 240p instead of 3DO's usual 480i would be so sweet.
That would be a nice bonus
Didn't the 3DO have a switch or something to select the video mode? 480i isn't bad if games used it well, but yeah if it was just displaying 240p video at 480i that's not so good.
@@AeduoJapanese FZ-1 Model 3DO is the only one that has the 240p switch, and it’s glorious.
@@Aeduo Games like Gex that were ported to PlayStation ran at 240p and looked waay better due to it. But yeah there was a 3DO with 240p switch but I believe it requires some fenagling.
@@mindscan420 have one myself, useful
I bought a 3DO RGB mod a while back and have still yet to get around installing it. I'll probably take care of it over the summer when I have more time (I do want a 240p switch, after all), but you're absolutely right about the S-video output. It's so damn good. I honestly don't think I'd even notice an improvement with RGB.
3DO has the best S video output of any console ever. It’s just THAT good
love my 3do, with an ode, but I hope a core soon, maybe to play street fighter with all the buttons and lightgun games (hope to find those 2 peripherals cheap some day), I wish you make a cdi possible soon, in order of whishes to developers....1) jaguar, 2) cdi 3) amiga cd 32 4) fm towns marty....and finally a 3d0....thanks for the cool videos! greetings from Argentina!
We all hope core soon. Hello from Chicago!
was playing sf2 on 3d0 yesterday, but indeed with an emulator as i don't have a 6 button controller either! I do love og hardware but mister would stop me needing to get a svideo cable and decent controller soluiton for the actual hardware. I was pleasantly surprised with how good the dpad is! Would be fine if the pad just had a few more buttons!
The lack of buttons on a standard 3DO controller is a killer
I thought MiSTer already had a CD32 core, or at least supports CD32 games, there are some bangers on CD32, like Roadkill, Banshee, Alien Breed Tower Assault, I had one in the 90s, so did my brother, I had no idea how good Amiga was or the potential of the CD32, we just thought it was failed console, had I of known I would have kept it, sadly most of the games weren't available in stores, which is why I had no idea of what was available, mine came with a terrible came called Microcosm, my dad had all the good games for his CD32, so I neglected it and just went back to the Mega Drive, I did sneak his copy of Strip Poker though.
@@Wobble2007 Hi, I think the amiga core can run amiga cd 32 games, didn´t try the amiga core, hope someone make a "amiga cd 32 only" core, yes, it was a failed console but so the 3do (and I love it), so maybe we can have some fun!
Now posted on the right video...lol. Not sure how I posted it to the N64 one originally. Anyhow, I've been waiting for this one! I'm a big fan of the 3DO. I had one back when they were on the market (no I didn't pay $600 for mine. I got one after several price cuts). But I absolutely loved it. It had so many obscure (but really good) games that you couldn't find anywhere else. My personal top 10 on 3DO: Starfighter, Star Control 2, Battle Sport, Death Keep, Killing Time, Wing Commander 3, Slayer, NFS, Road Rash, SSF2T. Honorable mentions: Samurai Shodown, Wolfenstein 3D, PO'd, Novastorm, Gex, Guardian War, Blade Force, Lucienne's Quest, Shockwave, Off World Interceptor, Total Eclipse, Crash n Burn, Space Hulk, Escape From Monster Manor
Haha I was V confused
Me too. Got the Goldstar one here in NZ. Was around $700 (US$350). My 2 best friends had one too. We LOVED Need For Speed and SSF2T. Such a great system.
My FZ-10 still working perfectly fine to this day.
Hopefully, the future core will work just as good as the original hardware.
Panasonic built them well
Robert Peip made a post 4 years ago on the MiSTer Forums "The 3DO has 2 external SRAMs for VRAM, each of them bigger than internal BRam of the Cyclone 5 FPGA.
So don't expect a 100% cycle accurate core with the Mister platform, but that's true for most newer consoles.(Gen5+). CPU side looks better, could probably use a stripped down version from the GBA, as it's an older ARM. Overall it should be possible if you don't mind a few quirks and tricks to make it work."
The thing is even if the ram is slower the system may accept that. We don’t know yet what that would do
It still would be cool to have a 3DO core, even if some shortcuts would have to be taken, just for the few games that I'd like to play on it. I'd also love to see a Virtual Boy core, as these both would complete my entire home console and handheld needs for Mister.
I think if it's not possible to add SRAM to the MiSTer via an I/O board or an updated RAM module, then it will have to be MiSTer 2.0 that gets these cores that require it, but MiSTeX should make MiSTer 2.0 a much easier process afaik.
So many people want 3DO
Assuming some video and audio discontinuities would be acceptable under those conditions assuming they're uncommon enough, would it be possible for the core to kinda "stop the clock" to allow various operations to catch up in those cases when the emulated logic is just too slow, such that in real-time they took longer but as far as the software is concerned, everything happened at the right time? I imagine stuff like a real time generated analog video signal would just fall apart or lose sync or show weird jitters/speckles and you'd get some crunchy audio but if it's uncommon enough, but at least through HDMI things could maybe be buffered enough to close those gaps, that could make things acceptable assuming such events are infrequent enough to not noticeably slow execution too badly.
I would be interested in a 3DO core in mister. I’ve never really considered looking into it until seeing your killing time and D video. They’re intriguing me. Haha.
That’s my goal. Make people want to play 3DO!
One day my friend! Waiting on a core to play killing time
Me too. Me tooooo
I always thought that the benefits of FPGA is that it's "100% perfect" simulation (sure, a human still has to translate that hardware to software, but it's the most 1:1 we can get) and not emulation - we have dealt with imprecise emulators for years, be it because of performance issues ("speedhacks", for instance) or lack of documentation. If we're having to make "imperfect" simulations (for the lack of a better word) on FPGAs, mostly because of memory timing issues, what is the point of them (other than you already have the device, so it's a bonus to have those platforms partially available on them)? Wouldn't it be "smarter" to run an equally imprecise emulator on a cheaper x86 or arm device? (Lets ignore the fact that the MiSTer version of some emulators, namely Saturn and N64, are better than the alternatives). I love the MiSTer project, the fact that it's the same experience across the board independent of the core you're using, but the price tag seems not ideal for still not "perfect" experience (again, for lack of a better term).
We don’t know that the ram being marginally slower would affect actual performance though. Just because it states X transfer speed does not mean that theoretical maximum is needed. So we don’t know what even if it was X % slower it wouldn’t render a 1:1 performant core
I would be happy, I really like Ultraman Powered and Quarantine.
Couple classics for sure
Don't think much of anybody cares about a 3DO Core, myself included. Of course it would be nice to have it as an option but the time would be better spent somewhere else. Going to spend a lot of man hours for just a small few to use it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You are going to have a lot of people say they want a core but yes. I believe this is the case. They want it but are they going to use it? Probably not. I think more people would care about the technical achievement of a 3DO core, than actually using it. Unfortunately.
Plenty of people do :)
I think a lot more people would come to the 3DO party with a core
@@VideoGameEsoterica Emulation is way more popular than FPGA and 3DO Emulation hasn't done anything for it's popularity. People just don't play it. Which is a shame because there are a couple of good games for it. I love Lucienne's Quest, I just don't see anyone playing it.
I’d rather have the core and then find out who decides to play :)
Is it not possible to produce some sort of SRAM module for the MiSTer? I know it lacks PMOD support, but surely there is a way of integrating low latency SRAM or SSRAM.
Would depend on if the IO would support it
@@VideoGameEsoterica I hope an SSRAM module is produced eventually, as it would be a huge upgrade for MiSTer, audio & video timings would benefit, as would compatibility and so on.
3DO & CDi are the two consoles which I think a MiSTer core would completely change perceptions of the system. Both have hidden gems in their library, but are widely hampered by hardware reliability issues.
They’ve also got some pretty extensive documentation available, so there’s a lot to work from with reverse-engineering them.
More documentation honestly that basically any platform out there from its generation
It must be possible! It has to be! I neeeeeed it!
If accuracy not what you are after, then there is always workarounds to get things playing. It would take time and effort.
The people demand 3DO
A lot of times the workarounds aren’t even human perceivable
Since this is a 3do video, did the original creator of D create D4 and could you review some more of the D games?
D4 has nothing to do with WARP. Just a naming coincidence
Well I’ve invested money into a real JP 240p 3DO, and a MNEMO, so I don’t particularly need a 3DO core 😂
But I would love for one to be made because it is an underrated system that more people need to play.
I don’t need a core either. But I want one lol
I saw that Mitel logo and had PTSD flashbacks to their old phone systems from the early 2010s
Ooh yeah, I get that.
Haha never used one
Apparently it’s a thing 🤷🏻♂️
@@VideoGameEsoterica I didn't either, or only for a short time; they were coming in as I was getting out of that game. They were a big headache though.
Only phone I’ve ever used have been cell phones haha. From OG blackberry to today
Is this an instance where a dual-RAM MiSTer could actually make a difference? I got a dual-RAM build since I don't have a CRT TV, but there doesn't seem to be much use for it.
Potentially. Would have to see
Oh yeah here is my list of games id love to play...
Way of the warrior
Crash n Burn
Total Ecplise
Need for speed (my personal best version of this game )
Gex
Road Rash
And not to forget ´the great Audio Visualizer while listening to CD...
Im not sure if this was made or inspired by Jeff Minter
You forgot Killing Time!
@@VideoGameEsoterica Star Control 2 anyone?
Not my jam personally
@@VideoGameEsoterica oh yeah .. !!!!
@@draketungsten74 yes amzing version. not sure if it is already in the 0mhz collection for mister! samshodown is a decent version on 3do, but we have both neo and neo cd avaible so from that perspective not so important. sf2 has the amazing sound track so that still makes it worthwhile imo.
3DO ODEs ain't cheap so a MISTer core would be welcome
Not cheap but super useful
3DO core would be great!
It really would be
I've been working on a 3DO core and it's nearly feature complete. I'm struggling getting the analogue input working for the CH Flight stick due to lack of documentation. The other problem is it's all in my head and I have no idea how to get that into an FPGA as I don't know verilog. Yes, this was a crap attempt at trolling, but I'm bored.
Haha decent attempt
Where does Killing Time factor into the Matrimelee universe?
Um…both are video games? 🤣
This is exciting! My only experience with 3do was playing at a friend’s house. I found console was okay but thought PlayStation was better at the time. 3do is a treasure trove of bizarre janky games. Top games I want to play
D
Hell
Syndicate
Weird 3do RPGs
And road rash
D is just ball of fame levels of good
wouldn't that be something! Maybe the whole RAM doesn't fit but could be cached?
Always an option to look at
I think the 3DO would be a perfect last console for the mister project to achieve before it passes the torch to the next gen of FPGA consoles. Also, Philips CDi, virtual boy, and Atari Jaguar, and many many arcade cores. But after that, the Mister can pass the torch.
The next gen will be MiSTer 2
@@VideoGameEsoterica wait, is that an announcement? 😮
There’s always been a MiSTer 2 planned. Hardware just isn’t settled. It’s no secret MiSTer will see a new board in the future once the time is right
@@VideoGameEsoterica I’m definitely looking forward to it
Me too
3DO was kinda neat in its unpopularity and having its own set of games, but it just didn't ever get very many games..
It got enough to be worth it
I have no idea why emulation of 50 MHz 4-bit RAM is a problem on FPGA with ~120 MHz 32-bit memory bus. But also cannot imagine how Robert could make a running N64 core (with originaly 9-bit 250 MHz DDR bus) on machine with ~120 Mhz 32-bit SDR bus.
It’s all down to timing and the read/write response round trip
@@VideoGameEsoterica Yes, I know, from years sitting on PC. But clock speed takes huge part in latency of DRAM. Mostly.
lets get a neo-geo pocket core first 🤤
We do need that finished
Would prefer a CDi core, but that might be because I'm from the UK, it was the 3DO of Europe. Emulation of CDi is not great either.
Logic checks out on that since you are from Europe
@@VideoGameEsoterica Also my mate had all the games and accessories when it was released, so for nostalgia reasons, would be cool. I would like to try 3DO as well, but I did not see it for sale in the UK at high street shops.
The 3DO is a interesting system sure it failed around back then but it has it's charm it had a interesting library my favorite 3DO game is also pretty solider sailor moon S because it was way better then the psx and saturn versions which were not that great but the 3DO one is so much better
It had tons of charm and I’m always trying to convince people of it
@@VideoGameEsoterica yeah
I really hate it that Opera is only available as a retroarch core. 😔
Yeah unfortunately no standalone app
@@VideoGameEsoterica I just asked, and they're not interested in making one. 😔
@@Myako It wasn't too hard to get the Opera "plugin" running in a separate app.
I used it in the Verilator sim (which I added the ImGui library to), so I could try running the 3DO "core" and Opera at the same time, to compare.
Somebody could use that as the basis for a standalone Opera emulator, but they would need to add more options to the Gui for ISO loading, control mapping, etc.
(it's on my github)
If people really wanted to help get a 3DO core finished, we need devs who can help fix the issues with the ARM CPU core first. Then I think the Verilog would boot games further.
atm, it only barely boots some small games to the title screen, or some very basic demos.
Or, try a different ARM CPU core.
The problem is, if it's in VHDL, then that can't be run on the Verilator sim, which has been invaluable for similar projects.
@@electronash like "Ludo" or "Retrix"?
@@Myako I'll be honest, I'm not sure what those are. lol
I just had Opera running almost stand-alone, within Imgui.
But it would need a fair bit of work, to make it more practical to use.
And I'm not sure about how best to handle things like Vsync, to prevent screen tearing.
(I'm not so good at coding for PC apps. I only got this far through sheer determination, and dumb luck. lol)
Are there any good 3DO games made by Japanese companies?
A decent amount
I'm far from well versed in FPGA core development, but to my laymans brain it seems bonkers that a Saturn core works but 3DO couldn't.
Just down to access speeds. 3DO was advanced for its time and perhaps some of the read and write times would be out of spec for the Cyclone V and the ram on board the DE10
🇧🇷👍🏻
Glad you enjoyed
[viewer engagement]
🤣
My understanding is Fixel already has a 3DO core but it is being kept exclusive to MARS FPGA. So that core doesn't and will never exist for me.
That’s the story yes
Fixel better ship the products people ordered from him in the last 2 years first!
I think that’s peoples expectation yes
FIRST!
I’d expect nothing less
Why does it seem like you know more about the obscure stuff than the mainstream stuff?
I guess hence the "Esoterica".
Which generally means "things that are only understandable by an inner circle of people, such as those with in-depth knowledge of an obscure subject." lol
I know about all the stuff. I just enjoy the less mainstream
Or alt definition…”idiot who loves failed things” 🤣
@@VideoGameEsoterica Sounds like 90% of my projects. lol
@@VideoGameEsoterica I had a Nintendo e-reader. I know the feeling.