This is my favorite version of Tatsuo Shimabuku doing Sunsu. You can see his power, speed and fast powerful kicks. This is his Kata - Strong Man Kata thanks for posting a gem of a find
My understanding is that he knew he was being filmed, but didn't want to be... this was the morning before his flight back to Okinawa, and they were on a bit of a bender the night before, so this series is all of a hungover grandmaster. Secondhand tales from people who trained under people who were there, since he died in '75.
And in case anybody didn't know, this is Sunsu, Japanese for "Strong boy" or "strong man." The man in the video made this kata himself, utilizing useful bits from other katas.
i used to box in the airforce and i thought it was a great work out. i still spar with boxers as i have some friends that fight amatuer. i am an isshinryu karate ka, i wipe the floor with my boxing buddies. when i hear other people put down different fighting styles that they are not trained in, it just makes me feel like they do not have enough experience and were not trained properly in their art. also, when i hear boxers or boxing fans tell a karate ka to fight with just his hands
Even if Tatsuo didnt have "official credentials" he was still a great teacher and taught many of our marines stationed in Okinawa his martial arts which was then taught by them when they came back to the states. If tatsuo didnt know what he was doing and teaching, why would his students be world class in fighters after being taught by him? Isshinryu is one of the most respected forms of karate in America and across the world even if these so called "professional" agencies wont "recognize" it.
ive been taking isshinryu for 5 years now and im a third degree brown belt. but isshinryu made me not only a more peaceful man but it made me extremely deadly with my fists. i have beaten golden gloves boxers before so yes we can fight.
sensi tatsuo trained in a different time then we do, back when he began his training it was still mainly self defense.yes kata is a very important aspect but what u dont relise is that kata is like a guide book. it contains the moves that you use in self defence and helps u perfect them. so while a pro boxer could be more powerful a puncher then a karate expert, he also dosent have alot of the other aspects of fightings such as kicks, blocks, chokes, grabs, pressure points.
@talon115 > He fought pro boxers, as did his instructors (Choki Motobu was known to be a bit of a brawler)... they wiped the floor with them. Using pure boxing rules, you might have a point, these men didn't train for sport.
nothing says traditional karate practioners just practiced kata and bunki. we also train our bodys to take hits, and its all depending on the system isshinryu has grabs, pressure points, breaks, throws and we also do train strikes. we have a set of 15 basic moves that are both attacks and defence's
I don't like to critique black belts, as I'm only a second degree brownbelt, but kata, for all intents and purposes, IS fighting. Most people who excel in kata also excel in kumite. The original students of this style learned on kata alone. And another thing...this video looks so much different than nowadays. If anybody knows who Sensei Rick Norris is (trained under Dale Jenkins), that's my sensei. Maybe it's just because I'm so used to not going easy whereas this man is demonstrating.
@RCK502 Though the physical conditioning that Boxers use is so extensive that some of the pathetic, unconditioned Karate-ka that you often find in America simply can't put enough power into there strikes to do anything, even if they are using perfect form. And most American dojo's give so little conditioning, that the Karate-ka can't take a good blow from a well trained boxer. But real classical, Okinawan conditioning is another story.
you need to understand . How old this film is . Shimabuku was sick and not real happy at the time. His comment when told they used the films as standards he said . they do old man katas.
have a boxer elbow you and then have a karate ka do it. have a boxer knee you and then have a karate ka do it. have a boxer chop at you or back fist you and then have a karate ka do it. even a hooking punch or a body punch, no contest interms of strength if the karate ka is properly trained versus a boxer of equal training in the boxing ring. lastly, martial arts is a fighting system used to protect you through a theory of injure to maim and maim to kill. boxing is a sport with score cards.
master tatsuo trained doing nothing but punching blocking and kicking for over 40 years... you think a boxer would wipe the floor with him, just because you beleive that sport is a superior fighting system... i could study in the wudan mountains for 5 years and still get my ass kicked by someone that trains everyday for for 30 years plus... no amount of training makes up for that type of fighting experience.
in short it would be better to be a trained boxer than to have no training at all, but to think that as a boxer fighting an equally skilled karate ka you are going to just walk up and jab your way through a fight when you have someone who will eye gauge, neck punch, knee and nut kick as effortlessly as you through a jab, it just seems unrealistic to me. again, i have been trained as a boxer and a martial artist. there is no comparison. not including the difference in attacking power...
because that is all that their sport allows, it is laughable to me. i am trained to fight with my fist, finger tips, knees, elbows, forearms...etc. for you to tell me just fight me using my fist techniques alone, is as ridiculous as me asking you to fight one handed. if the only way you think that you are going to rounds with me is to have me only use fist techniques because your style does not account for grabs, kicks, elbows and knees, it sounds like you need to study a more complete style.
@sunsu1013 You can't be serious! A boxer would knock this man out! His guard is all but non existent, his chin is right there for anyone to hit and his techniques are so telegraphed you can see them coming a mile away. Stop believing the hype.
This is my favorite version of Tatsuo Shimabuku doing Sunsu. You can see his power, speed and fast powerful kicks. This is his Kata - Strong Man Kata thanks for posting a gem of a find
My understanding is that he knew he was being filmed, but didn't want to be... this was the morning before his flight back to Okinawa, and they were on a bit of a bender the night before, so this series is all of a hungover grandmaster. Secondhand tales from people who trained under people who were there, since he died in '75.
And in case anybody didn't know, this is Sunsu, Japanese for "Strong boy" or "strong man." The man in the video made this kata himself, utilizing useful bits from other katas.
i used to box in the airforce and i thought it was a great work out. i still spar with boxers as i have some friends that fight amatuer. i am an isshinryu karate ka, i wipe the floor with my boxing buddies. when i hear other people put down different fighting styles that they are not trained in, it just makes me feel like they do not have enough experience and were not trained properly in their art. also, when i hear boxers or boxing fans tell a karate ka to fight with just his hands
Even if Tatsuo didnt have "official credentials" he was still a great teacher and taught many of our marines stationed in Okinawa his martial arts which was then taught by them when they came back to the states. If tatsuo didnt know what he was doing and teaching, why would his students be world class in fighters after being taught by him? Isshinryu is one of the most respected forms of karate in America and across the world even if these so called "professional" agencies wont "recognize" it.
ive been taking isshinryu for 5 years now and im a third degree brown belt. but isshinryu made me not only a more peaceful man but it made me extremely deadly with my fists. i have beaten golden gloves boxers before so yes we can fight.
sensi tatsuo trained in a different time then we do, back when he began his training it was still mainly self defense.yes kata is a very important aspect but what u dont relise is that kata is like a guide book. it contains the moves that you use in self defence and helps u perfect them. so while a pro boxer could be more powerful a puncher then a karate expert, he also dosent have alot of the other aspects of fightings such as kicks, blocks, chokes, grabs, pressure points.
Interesting Kata
@talon115 > He fought pro boxers, as did his instructors (Choki Motobu was known to be a bit of a brawler)... they wiped the floor with them. Using pure boxing rules, you might have a point, these men didn't train for sport.
nothing says traditional karate practioners just practiced kata and bunki. we also train our bodys to take hits, and its all depending on the system isshinryu has grabs, pressure points, breaks, throws and we also do train strikes. we have a set of 15 basic moves that are both attacks and defence's
i fought him when i was i belive second degree green belt.
Really????
I don't like to critique black belts, as I'm only a second degree brownbelt, but kata, for all intents and purposes, IS fighting. Most people who excel in kata also excel in kumite. The original students of this style learned on kata alone.
And another thing...this video looks so much different than nowadays. If anybody knows who Sensei Rick Norris is (trained under Dale Jenkins), that's my sensei. Maybe it's just because I'm so used to not going easy whereas this man is demonstrating.
He wasn't sick in this video.
@RCK502 Though the physical conditioning that Boxers use is so extensive that some of the pathetic, unconditioned Karate-ka that you often find in America simply can't put enough power into there strikes to do anything, even if they are using perfect form. And most American dojo's give so little conditioning, that the Karate-ka can't take a good blow from a well trained boxer. But real classical, Okinawan conditioning is another story.
Which recording is this? Doesn't look like the 66 or the 66 outtakes.
you need to understand . How old this film is . Shimabuku was sick and not real happy at the time. His comment when told they used the films as standards he said . they do old man katas.
have a boxer elbow you and then have a karate ka do it. have a boxer knee you and then have a karate ka do it. have a boxer chop at you or back fist you and then have a karate ka do it. even a hooking punch or a body punch, no contest interms of strength if the karate ka is properly trained versus a boxer of equal training in the boxing ring. lastly, martial arts is a fighting system used to protect you through a theory of injure to maim and maim to kill. boxing is a sport with score cards.
My Sensei always used this term . ‘ I teach the art of killing and maiming, in self defense’ … Isshinryu..
@talon115 > kata isn't fighting.
Does anyone think this guy would stand a chance against a pro boxer?
"Old man kata."
master tatsuo trained doing nothing but punching blocking and kicking for over 40 years... you think a boxer would wipe the floor with him, just because you beleive that sport is a superior fighting system... i could study in the wudan mountains for 5 years and still get my ass kicked by someone that trains everyday for for 30 years plus... no amount of training makes up for that type of fighting experience.
in short it would be better to be a trained boxer than to have no training at all, but to think that as a boxer fighting an equally skilled karate ka you are going to just walk up and jab your way through a fight when you have someone who will eye gauge, neck punch, knee and nut kick as effortlessly as you through a jab, it just seems unrealistic to me. again, i have been trained as a boxer and a martial artist. there is no comparison. not including the difference in attacking power...
because that is all that their sport allows, it is laughable to me. i am trained to fight with my fist, finger tips, knees, elbows, forearms...etc. for you to tell me just fight me using my fist techniques alone, is as ridiculous as me asking you to fight one handed. if the only way you think that you are going to rounds with me is to have me only use fist techniques because your style does not account for grabs, kicks, elbows and knees, it sounds like you need to study a more complete style.
@sunsu1013 You can't be serious! A boxer would knock this man out! His guard is all but non existent, his chin is right there for anyone to hit and his techniques are so telegraphed you can see them coming a mile away. Stop believing the hype.
It's a kata, not a fighting form