Adjusting Brew Pressure of Lelit Victoria PL91T VIP line and similar small Lelit machines
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- A little bit long video of the whole process of adjusting and testing the brew pressure of Lelit PL91 Victoria down to 8.5 bar static. All these machines use MC097 OPV.
Thanks for the video. Just did my new machine and no heat was required. Screw turned easily.
Thanks for the video! Just to motivate everyone: In my case, it was easier than I initially thought. The OPV of my machine (built in 06/2021, EU model) was NOT glued/locked. Lelit seems to be pretty inconsistent about whether they glue the OPV or not.
Here are some tips that might help you:
1) For removing the tube on the OPV (at 10:05), it is easier (and more gentle) to use you thumbnail or a flat screw driver instead of pulling hard on the tube.
2) Try to use a perfectly fitting flat screw driver to reduce the risk of deforming or breaking the OPV screw head. I tried a lot of different screw drivers and the perfectly fitting one has a head size of 1.05mm in width and >=5.4mm in length.
3) When turning the OPV screw, make sure that the screw driver head is completely inserted into the screw head. Apply a some pressure and turn VERY slowly. Ideally, use your free hand to fix/stabilize the OPV. Although the screw is made of a soft material, the head of my screw did take no damage.
4) Turn the screw anti-clockwise to reduce the pressure, turn clockwise to increase the pressure. In my case, I had to turn the screw by about 120° to reduce the pressure by about 1 bar.
5) As it is quite a lot of work, think carefully in advance about the pressure to which you want to set the machine. You have to be very careful with advice on the internet, as it often lacks details about the circumstances under which it makes sense. It makes a big difference where exactly the pressure is measured (close to the pump or close to or even in the portafilter) and in which scenario (blind filter, filter with needle valve or during a real draw). The built-in pressure gauge on the Victoria is installed very close to the portafilter, which can be seen from the fact that the readings in the video match the pressure gauge in the measuring filter. This means that a separate measuring filter is not necessary. However, if you measure statically with a blind basket, the displayed pressure is often more than 0.5 bar higher than during a real espresso extraction, because the flow through the puck is missing. That's why I first set the static pressure to 9.5 bar using the blind basket. Afterwards, I verified by making several real espresso shots that the pressure during the extraction is around 9 bar. Probably the grind etc. has to be readjusted again.
All information without guarantee. Should anyone find an error or simply have a suggestion for improvement, I would be happy to receive responses.
i can agree to 100% of that! EU No Clue. With blind filter 0,5 higher than you want while the real coffee extraction. this comment must get highlighted!
Echoing these comments as well...bought my machine in Europe late 2021 and had no glue. Whole process took 10-15 mins, spent more time testing pressure than actually opening and turning the OPV!
Great guide!
Thank you for this video! My Lelit Grace was factory set at 11 bar, and I just couldn't get the OPV to budge. I ended up mangling the OPV thread, since I didn't start with just the right size. Well, reading through the comments here helped me a lot! I first found the right screwdriver, and I got it to turn about 90 degrees CCW. But then it stopped. I applied a little heat with a lighter, and I got it to turn a little more. I would estimate I turned CCW about 200 degrees, and now I am at 8.5 bar. Pieces of brass chipped off, and I did my best to clean those up, and I ran the pump first before attaching the hose again, in the attempt to try and make sure that no brass chips were in the OPV.
Hola guys, I just purcharsed my Lelit Victoria. I have a problem with the steam pressure because is very low and this is not causing turbulence therefore it is not froting the milk.. any idea where the issue is coming from?
Question, would this be possible to do it in the Lelit PL92T Elizabeth v1 as mine is set at 12 BARs from factory. Looks like they use the same part MC097
I torched the OPV multiple times for 1-2 minutes at a time and unfortunately could not get the glue to release. I deformed the brass slot in the process. I wonder if the glue material has changed recently (I just got the Victoria a month ago), either that or the torch I had could not get the thread hot enough.
I had the same experience trying to turn the OPV screw. I torched it until the OPV was blazing hot, but could only turn the screw about a quarter of a turn. Fortunately this placed the pressure at exactly 9 bar, but the screw head was deformed in the process making any further adjustment impossible.
James Hoffmann ranting about how the pressure of factory setting machines is always too high brought me here
I am far from him but still can help with real and practical things
@@victorbrewseverywhere Well thanks I'm looking at the Grace and Anna 2, I think both like to run about at 10 bar... this mod should be similar enough on the Anna?
@@221b-l3t yes
@@victorbrewseverywhere Thanks I found a video. The valve is actually pointed up on the Anna so only two screws and one plate has to be removed. Grace is the same as Vic mostly. Now I need to find out if the Grace and Vic are similar enough to mount the 58 mm Vic grouphead on the Grace but I suspect Lelit did something to prevent that obvious mod.
Hey, I like your Video and I try it as well:) I have lelit grace.
I have 2 Questions. 1.question: which way to the left or right should I turn the screw, if there is to much much and I wann to reduce it.
2.Question:
Why did you warm up that valve? Do I HAVE to Do it? What happens, If I dont warm it up? thanks a lot for your message.
Thank you, great video, I rotated the OPV by just a little bit more than half a turn (anti-clockwise) to get 9 bars.
Thank you Viktor! Hairdryer works great to release the glue. Just use a wet cloth around the opv an heat it- can't be easier as I just did it ;)
Amazing! After 4 years, thousands of espressi, buying new stuff, tweaking here and there, I finally made a shot that is not bitter!
I am so relieved! Thank you so much!
Thank you for creating this video - I am very angry that Lelit have made an espresso machine with an operating pressure of 11bar so they can say it's suitable for ESE pods. They have betrayed their espresso customers for a stupid, greedy reason.
Their customer customer support is poor too and they have no interest in this.
However, this fix looks pretty complicated and fiddly. Have any "average" users tried it with any success?
Doesn't the OPV-setting just determine at which pressure the valve opens in order to prevent damage to the pump? I mean, it's pretty usual the PUMPS of espresso machines can build up pressure of 11 to 15 bar. The pressure that builds up in the group head, on the other hand, is determined by the resistance the coffee puck puts up against the water. So, by coarseness or fineness of the grind, amount of coffee in the portafilter, and tamping. So, if the gauge indicates more than 9 bars in the group head - adjust the grind setting on your mill, take less coffee, don't lean on the tamper with all your weight. That's what I would say.
And well, if the pressure exceeds the OPV setting, the valve will open. So, if you've ground too finely and so on, this will prevent that there's a higher buildup of pressure in the group head than the pump can handle to work against.
Meaning, if you adjust the OPV to say, 8,5 bar, you CAN NEVER build up a pressure higher than 8,5 bar in the group head, because at 8,5 bar the OPV opens, allowing some water to take a way not going through the puck.
This may be great for some purposes. For instance, if for some reason you want to make sure that even a puck that's ground so finely (and so on) that it would offer a resistance of say, 9,5 bar, that valve would open at 8,5 bar, some water would have to take the other way, and only the water penetrating the puck at 8,5 bar would go through the portafilter. So, yeah, it would guarantee all the coffee ending up in your cup had been extracted at no more than 8,5 bar. This will probably means the extraction will be slower than if the opv was set at, say 10 bar, which in this example means the coffee would get extracted at 9,5 bar, the resistance of the puck against the water.
I'm not sure, is THIS the idea? To prolong extraction of the puck without increasing its resistence? To prolong the extraction without making the grind finer? Something like that.
This might improve flavour and/or aromas for some people's taste, I guess. It seems to me though, that this would be a rather personal choice of brewing profile, then, not the typical way you would go, so, this adjustment of the opv rather seems to be a hack of the machine than some necessary fix you have to perform in order to make regular great espresso with it.
But the operating pressure of 11 bar definitely doesn't mean the machine will screw up an espresso by putting 11 bar of pressure on a helpless puck that can just offer 9 bar of resistence, or 8 bar of resistance, or whatever. Seems to me this is what you assume, fear, or resent.
The actual pressure in the group head is determined by the pucks capacity to hold back the water. Unless the pressure generated exceeds the OPV setting, as the MAXIMAL pressure that can be built up in the group head is determined by the OPV.
So, I'd recommend you to adjust your grinder settings, amount of coffee in the portafilter, mode of tamping and so on until you get pucks offering the resistance to the water you need to achieve the desired pressure in the group head.
Is the crowd with me on that explanation?
Or am I overlooking something here?
@@negligiblethreat I completely agree that grind will affect pressure, but also affect time. If I make the grind significantly coarser to bring the pressure down to 9bar then my shot blows through in 10 seconds, leading to a very under -extracted, weak and thin espresso.
Whereas if the OPV was set to a more espresso-friendly setting (around 9bars) it would just work.
I'm now opening the wand valve during extraction to reduce the pressure.
@@antjone Thank you very much for clarifying!
Now you left me wondering: How much pressure does my puck receive in my gauge-less old Rancilio Silvia? I do get good results with a Eureka Mignon Specialità and the Silvia, shot times are around 25 to 30 secs, I get balanced espresso shots, and as far as I know, the Silvia OPV is set around 10,5bar and I never fiddled with it.
(By the way: So you need 11bars of pressure to thump through those ESE pads no home barista with the least bit of self-respect should ever use?! I'm appalled!)
Might also be a matter of the coffee beans used (and preferred), I guess. But my current setup seems to work with a pretty wide variety of beans.
Of course, everything might be different with a Specialità - Victoria setup, who really knows before trying.
(I'm also starting to wonder if I WANT to run the risk and try, or if I'll just upgrade old Silvia with a simple PID.)
Aah - the confusing magic of making espresso. It can keep you awake at night.
Especially if you sampled too many shots on your way to the perfect one ;-)
@@antjone It's good video, but in my case this hack probably is not needed because I can make espresso in 30-31s extraction time based on 14.5g coffee in portafilter. With the above, the result is approx: 31-32g of liquid coffee. The pressure during extraction in my Lelit Grace is between 8.3 - 8.8bar depending on my power of tampering. Espresso is quite repetitive and very tasty. I use Mazzer Super Jolly Electronic for grinding. I always weigh the coffee in the portafilter before tampering... just to be sure. The retention in Mazzer grinder is super-low but what is weighed is weighed :) So in my point of view the key is in grinding thickness and tampering power... of course the type of coffe also matters, but then if something goes wrong you can adjust a bit... for example grinding thickness...
Thanks for the video. Did this tonight and it was super easy.
For anyone else going to do this, I managed to adjust the opv valve without heating it all. I decided to try first and it moved fairly easily. Worth a shot before applying any heat to try release adhesive.
In theory if there is no adhesive, then heating would be counter productive, since there would be thermal expansion making it tighter and not looser...
Thank you for this video! My Lelit Grace was factory set at 11 bar, and I just couldn't get the OPV to budge. I ended up mangling the OPV thread, since I didn't start with just the right size. Well, reading through the comments here helped me a lot! I first found the right screwdriver, and I got it to turn about 90 degrees CCW. But then it stopped. I applied a little heat with a lighter, and I got it to turn a little more. I would estimate I turned CCW about 200 degrees, and now I am at 8.5 bar. Pieces of brass chipped off, and I did my best to clean those up, and I ran the pump first before attaching the hose again, in the attempt to try and make sure that no brass chips were in the OPV.
Thanks for the great video.
It has been one year that I think about this modification, I did it today.
Really need a loong screwdriver so you don't fuck the screws. OPV was stuck so I needed some flame lighter to melt the glue.
I still need some testing but first impression : for the same grind size I get so much less bitterness
Thanks for taking the time to post this video, but just a word of warning here.
Read the comments below re damaging the OPV.
My Anita ( PL042Temd) OPV was glued tight at 11 bar so i thought i would bring it down to 9 bar. So i warmed the head of the OPV up, as suggested in the video, and tried to adjust it but in doing so the force i had to use deformed the OPV adjustment screw. The OPV is brass, which is quite soft, and i would urge anyone trying this to be cautious.
IF it turns easily...great.. if not maybe try the hack below of using the steam wand to bring the pressure down. I had to buy a new OPV valve and install it, which is not the end of the world ( i actually enjoyed it) !) , and it turns out that Lelit ship the OPV at 9bar so that was a bonus!
Just did this on the Victoria 2023 version, easy task to do, no heating needed. Thank you.
Какую отвертку вы использовали? У меня тоже 2023года , настройка 11 бар.
Hello from germany. Thank you for that advise. I always had sour or bitter espresso out of my Lelit Grace. Now with adjusting the brew pressure to 9 bar it smells much much much better. Thank you so much!
Thanks for your comment!
Hi. initially purchased my LELIT Grace PL81T, adjusted by the distributor to 8.5 bar blind. Something was missing. Tried myself to 9.0 BAR blind. I think this is the perfect spot. After all, with single boiler machines, it is easy to hack slightly lower pressure (if needed for particular shots), using the steam knob. I find 9. BAR adjustment the perfect one for these type of single boiler machines.
In my Lelit Grace (EU version) the OPV was not glued too, but you still have to apply considerable force to turn the screw. A standard 1.2 mm (3/64") flat screwdriver fits perfectly. By the way, funnily enough, while disassembling my machine, I found that some screws in the body were not fastened enough and were loose.
All I'll say is don't force the screw... mine was glued down and stripped pretty easily. Applied heat and it still wouldn't budget and now the head is gone... I'll likely just have to buy a new one.
Your instructions were spot on! I did not have a torch so I used a 100W soldering iron which worked well if not a little slower. Much less chance of burning something unintentionally and cheaper than a torch. Thanks!
Well done! Do you know whether Lelit Kate has the same OPV arrangement?
Great video, thank you! Does anyone happen to know the inner/outer diameter of the two hoses that sit in the water reservoir (inlet and return lines)? Mine are looking gross and I’d like to replace them.
Unfortunately the guy I bought my machine tried before to turn the screw but wasnt that carefull... any tips to try to get a lower bar with a screw head a bit misformed? Or is it possible to easily change the OPV? I've got a PL81T
You can buy a new one. OPV MC097.
Great video, and tons of knowledge about this machine! I got one a couple of months ago and I love it. I'd do this adjustment with pleasure though. If I understand correctly, the easiest way to get an idea of the current setting is to warm up the machine, pull a shot with the blind filter and watch the gauge, correct?
To answer my own question, as it could help others... It is what I ended up doing, except I put it in backflush mode and watched the gauge. It gave me just above 9. I then put the machine back together and it gives me about 8.6/8.7 bars so pretty good.
I turned the screw about 200° CCW, as others have noticed. The screw was hard first - either it was factory glued, or simply the years of water going thru it. Once it released, it was very easy to turn it. I'll keep an eye on the gauge as I suspect the vibrations combined with the pressure could probably end up moving this screw.
If my OPV is at 8, and want to get it to 9, how much do I have to turn it? Half a rotation? Full rotation?
Hello! I've lowered my machine's pressure and now I'm pulling shots at around 9 bars but the crema is always thin and bubbly. I've unfortunately damaged the OPV doing this so can't change it again. Do you have any advice?
I don't know If this helps but -
Try an espresso blend that has some robusta in it. That should do it
Did you change the temperature reading to actual (T1)? I read a lot about it showing the set temperature and not the real temperature.
Cannot hear you!
I followed your instructions but failed to rotate opv, its pretty hard, also I hurt it while trying :/
Did you use a blow torch before trying to unscrew it?
I had the same problem before heating it.
@@ZiefM I tried but didn't move, now I've got myself a metal file, I will make the groove deeper so that I can rotate it. Lelit fixes the opv screw with loctile which is an incredible glue so we can not move it. Total bullshit bro...
I’m also having this problem. It’s too hard to turn, and I think I made the groove larger and sort of rounded by trying. Did you find a solution?
@@mcever I'm gonna try to deepen the groove by a metal file, hope it works out!
I had the same problem, couldn't unscrew and i even warmed it with fire. It's best to remove the whole OPV (if you don't want to risk burning something else in there) and warm the screw as much as you can because after some degree the glue turns to liquid and it's so easy to unscrew, and remain easy even when it gets cold again.
The thing is that you have to have the equipment to remove and add again the OPV, and you also need to add teflon to avoid leakage which sure will happen if you dont add teflon.
I hate some things like that in my Lelit, or like i can't see how much water there is in the tank, or that the power cable is right underneath water, or the flow profile which is bad and creates channeling. (and i think that's why lowering the pressure helps).
My Kate brews over 12 bars all the time! So to decrease the pressure you rotate clockwise or anticlockwise and how many times?
anticlockwise, how many turns pressure gauge will tell you, use blind basket if you don't have portafilter w pressure gauge, it is accurate
Thanks for your great helpful video. I'm now trying to open my Lelit Kate p82t.... But it seems to be a bit more different and complicate to open. Is anybody knows any tutorial for that one???
I too have the Kate, did you manage to get more information? My pressure is over 12.
@@berldon finally it's kind of the same so i used this video as tutorial to open my Lelit Kate, the thing is that when it came to use the lighter to get away of the glue it didn't work, then i force a little bit the OPV with my screwdriver. It moved a little bit but now i can not move anymore my OPV because the top of the screw is flat 🙃. I gain 0,5 less pressure maybe. I can recommand you to try and if the glue don't get away or if you beggin to destroy the screw of your OPV while you turn it then stop 🙃
I have Lelit Kate and looks like than steam for milk is very poor. Machine bought some months ago. And I see that qulity of steam is descreased .... Is it possible to adjust steam pressure. BTW On pid controller I try to setup 135 and 140 C. Could please help. thanks
I don't have memories that steam was an issue, the only parameter connected with it is steam temperature, but don't go over 145C
@@victorbrewseverywhere hmm. maybe pid controller set temperature less than shown. because pressure of steam from pipe not intensive. Or is it feature of this Kate machine...thanks
Sorry why.didnt follow the pressure guage with just using blind basket
for reference
BR
Great video! I was looking for some information about Lelit's OPV since I noticed that my PL81T OPV hose that goes back to the reservoir is vibrating, is this normal? Thanks for the video.
This could happen so it is not a problem.
I just bought the Victoria PL91T. Unfortunately, the vibrations are so strong that it makes the brewing process difficult since cups just move on the machine grid. I contacted Lelit and this was their answer: “in the PL91T model the metal tray and the wire grid do not absorb the vibration of the pump, but transmit it and this can cause the displacement of the cups during the brewing process, especially in case of less heavy cups.” Well, stay away from PL91T and Lelit in general.
For less than 2000 euros you will always have a vibration pump.
And if you need a compact coffee machine it will vibrate.
Silvia, Gaggia Pro, and the similar coffee machine they all vibrate.
Buy a silicone pad to place under the cup.
I've also made anti vibration silicone spirals form a silicone tube to let the grid vibrate less.
My experience with the vibrations was similar to you. I returned my Victoria after 7 months as the water intake tube got split while changing filters. Amazon instead of sending a tube replaced the whole machine. The new one was built in April 2022 and comes with the new firmware (1.14c instead of 1.3 that the old one has). Most surprisingly, it is also much quiter and produces less vibrations. Not sure, but I suspect that that Lelit updated both firmware and hardware or went through a phase of bad lemons.
Hi, thank you for the video! I have rotated the OPV in my Lelit Kate by more than half of a turn, but I see no impact on the pressure. What could have happened? Could the glue still hold?
turn it more.BR
@@victorbrewseverywhere Thanks, it worked like a charm! I got it down to 9. Big impact on extraction and flavor.
While having it torn down, I also noticed that my machine would use some decalcifying.
Hi I’m finding the OPV is too hard to turn, and I think I made the groove larger and sort of rounded by trying to turn it. Is there a solution to this, or have I destroyed my OPV and need a replacement part?
OPV is MC097, it is cheap no more than 20USD
Thanks. Do you happen to have a replacement (instead of just adjustment) video or tips?
That's great help! In my case, I have a pressure decrease and so I need to increase by 1 or 1.5 (guess that's a matter of personal taste). My only concern is what another user had already written: "you also need to add teflon to avoid leakage which sure will happen if you dont add teflon". Do you think there may be any leakage after heating (probably decomposing) the glue?
No, based on my experience
@@victorbrewseverywhere Thank you, will try!
How much does brew pressure matter? If it's 9 vs 10? Or 8 vs 9? Can you taste a 1 bar difference?
Actually not the pressure but extraction time matters. To reach a (normally proposed)extraction time of 25 sec with 12 bar, coffee must be grinded to very small particles and too much is extracted; at 12 bar, none of the general helping videos in the internet fit to you, you must extract in 10-15 sec.
@@patriq1 Extraction time doesn't really matter.
Mine was initially set to 8.5 blind. Changing this back to 9 bar blind, I found it easier to control the extraction and adjust grinding and puck size. With new setting my shots usually range between 8 to 8.6 BAR on manometer. I do not know what is the actual one on portafilter, and I actually do not care. Going after taste, not after pressure. At 8.5 something was not there. Experimented with 9, and it is easier for me to get the tastes that I want. I really do not care about the theoretical analysis.
Conclusion is tat yes, even small adjustment in settings, is possible to make the difference.
@@patriq1pressure matter because of channeling. 15 bar will destroy the puck and find a easier way than 8 bar
Very, very good video. Thanks. Do you have any tips for getting good coffee (dose, times, ratios)? I have a pl81t and get sour (grind too coarse) or acidic coffee (grind too fine). Have not adjusted opv yet.
Hello, PL81T has a different boiler and 57mm group head. I would suggest 15g in the double basket, no more than 30 ml out and extraction for 30 sec. Greetings
@@victorbrewseverywhere besides it being smaller on the pl81... is there any other difference?
@@AzizIzgin Brew head, water distribution path and upper boiler are different.
@@victorbrewseverywhere hope that it is a bit of an upgrade though from the gaggia classic that I have... old version.
Were choosing between the Anna 2 and grace and am leaning towards grace
@@AzizIzgin 58mm group would be better but if the budget is tight 57 is fine as well.
Hello Mr Victor, I am going to buy a new espresso machine and I’d like to hear your piece of advice. As I will not make cappuccinos but only high quality espresso, which machine can you recommend between Lelit PL81T, Lelit PL91T Victoria, Lelit PL92 Elisabeth and Rancilio Silvia? Is the dual boiler solution necessary to extract a great espresso? Thank you in advance. Greetings
I would suggest Victoria for you. My best Vic
The dual boiler configuration is to speed up and parallelise the heating of the water for the brewing and steaming processes, so if you do not plan to steam milk much, you don't need to spend the extra money for the PL92T, as said. You only really "need" the Elizabeth if you plan to make several cappuccinos back to back, for example for friends or in a small business.
Even if you do plan to make cappuccinos, you can still get by with the Victoria just fine, which is what I plan to do. I bought my Victoria yesterday and will perform this pressure adjustment at some point. Thanks so much for this brilliant video. This is the best side of RUclips.
@@MorningNapalm many thanks!
@@MorningNapalm did you adjust pressure? what are your observations after two months of using?
@@victorbrewseverywhere is it obligatory to heat opv before adjusting? Or can I leave this point and go forward?
Thanks for taking the time to make the video and show us the process.
How do you think lowering the pressure impacts the quality of the espresso in this machine? Thanks!!
I have better and tastier extractions provided I use only bottomless PF
Sorry to say but what you did is useless. The brewing pressure depends on the grinding granulometry. The valve just avoid that the pressure in the group goes up beyond the safety limits. You want to brew at 9 bars, set the grinder coarser. But if you get a sour or bitter coffee, don’t bother you doing so much mess and just change the coffee. German coffees for example are differently toasted than Italian ones. Buy a good coffee grind it in a proper way and just enjoy it. Cheers.
I think we all know what opv does and why its important. Why do you think 9 bar spring is so popular mod on gaggia classic?
Amazing vid!
Hello!
I've lowered my pressure and now it's about 10 bar with a naked basket. I grind my coffee with the finest setting and brewing pressure is about 9 bar now. The problem is that my crema seems very thin every time, whereas before lowering the pressure it was perfect. I don't think I can adjust it back because I've damaged the OPV. :( Do you have any advice?
No need to do this. Nearly all machines are 1 bar over the actual bar pressure. This is a known fact. So basically you have adjusted this to 7.5. Also bar pressure is determined by GRIND. Too coarse and bar pressure is too low, to fine and bar pressure can be too high.
yep I adjusted static pressure to 8.5 and I really like brewing below 8. Cheers
@@victorbrewseverywhere I think it is quite clear in this video that the Pressure gauge on the machine is actually accurate of the pressure at the group? Since your pressure manometer and the portafilter pressure gauge was showing the same pressure. So we can say that the Lelit VIP machines display the true brewing pressure.
Please correct me if i am wrong on this.
I own an Elizabeth and often my manometer pressure shows 10 bar when brewing. thinking of lowering it through the OPV
@@Casablancas. yep gauges on Lelit Machines are accurate.
@@victorbrewseverywhere do you know roughly how many degrees to be turned to reduce pressure by 1 bar?
@@Casablancas. no such rule unfortunately