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It's interesting to see your ankle the issues of a smaller and more local line compared to your recent and understandable focus (see what I did there) on HS2, or what's left of it. Your video on the 777s sounds interesting.
Totally under reports the problems with the 230s, they were at driver training stage when overheating battery packs going on fire caused them to be withdrawn, then trained driver qualifications had expired by the time these were reintroduced. Then they had issues with filters being clogged by pollen and staff availability issues on top of the cumulation of late running causing cancellations on top of train failures in service, all meaning random replacement busses operating throughout the day. I believe a train failure caused a bus replacement on the very first morning on the new ¾hrly service!
TFW Were Being Silly Removing Class 175s They've Only Just Refurbished Them So Getting Rid of Those Trains Is a Waste of Money I Hope The 175s Get More Use Elsewhere Maybe Northern Should Get The Ex TFW 175s 👍
Not really a gimmick, the technology has been around for decades. It just hadn't been applied to trains before. More testing and development was needed.
If someone at tfl would actually listen, they would realise that nobody cares if the journey takes a few minutes longer, and would far rather have trains runing to Birkenhead north 3rd platform, making getting to Liverpool far easier. Its an absolute joke to terminate at Bidston, always causing merseyrail delays
Merseyrail are one of the reasons TfW can't operate to Birkenhead North, they don't want diesel traction on their network, other than RHTTs. Also I believe the switch was removed that would be needed for trains to turn back.
@@Rail_Focus would the possibility of TfW getting battery powered trains make it possible for them to run to birkenhead north, and at that point wouldn't it just make more sense for merseyrail to run services on the line considering the battery powered trains could reach wrexham with their current capacity
Talks are ongoing between TfW and Merseyrail but it is possible we could see Class 777s operated by Merseyrail but in TfW colours. If they can find funding for cl777s they'll operate directly into Liverpool.
Feels like they've been muddled for 4 years, but this year has been particularly bad. It sometimes feels like they're still learning the ropes, being an operator that is relatively new.
Tfw got some d78 carriages down barry island. There was talk of ordering more class 230s for the proposed swansea metro. Shame the 230s been so unreliable although theyve worked better than the 769s tfw had. Ill be watching the gwr trial as maybe battery poewered 230s could work on the Wrexham to Bidston line perhaps if they could be charged on the move on certain sections of the line
I'm guessing there would need to be a change of 'ownership' from TfW to Merseyrail to facilitate use of the 777s, this would appear to be at odds with TfW trying to get a foothold in Liverpool with the services via the Halton curve?
There's talk of 777s driven by Merseyrail drivers but "painted" in TfW colours. Ultimately getting trains into Liverpool is more important than which operator owns them.
Do those trains have extending boarding ramps? I noticed that a woman with a pram and the massive height of the doorway from the platform. That line has always been the 'poor relation' and would be great to see it sorted out. Esp since they have the odd Hollywood star hanging around ;)
The Class 197s and 230s have steps unfortunately, I noticed the gap at Shotton is quite large. But if the Class 777 were to operate on the line then they would provide step free access.
There is still a big gap in the timetable from Wrexham in the evening. Including 1 train starting at Wrexham General. Hopefully the higher frequency zbd better reliability will bring customers back like the Severn beach line
The gap is a little bit later now, 2 hourly used to start around 6pm. At least the 18:46 and 19:32 from Bidston helps workers travelling back from Liverpool, but agree it could be better later on.
So does TFW have its own engineering dept to upgrade the 230s? Just thinking of the Marstom Vale line pulling 230s as vivarail weren't around any more to support them
Would need 5 for the planned half hourly service. The Class 230s were supposed to be an inexpensive stop gap measure until we got trains capable of travelling to Liverpool.
@@Rail_Focus hi, thanks for the reply, that makes sense 🙂. I must saying being in South Wales, I like the 231s a lot, they are great trains. Is there a timeline for when electrification is expected?
@Rail_Focus I tried to ride the Class 320 and Class 197 today for a day trip from Upton to Wrexham, but I had to abort my trip. At first the 10.24 from Upton was cancelled and then the next train was already showing as over 20 minutes delayed about half an hour before it was due. I didn't want to be stranded in Wrexham forever.
I thought this was an excellent video. Content was accurate and relevant and the video material was well prepared. I travelled on the line in October and the service was very poor. My train was about 45 mins late and was terminated at Wrexham General without any warning. The short section on to Wrexham Central is now the only piece of TfW route I haven’t done! I hope to revisit the line and travel on the Class 230s.
Having read recent news items, the half hourly proposal was rejected by Network Rail, as it conflicted with GBRF's request for paths. Both TfW and GBRF went to the ORR for a decision, and the current frequency is the outcome. Freight traffic coming to/from both the cement works at Penyfforrd and steel traffic to Shotton. Due to the track layout, the loaded cement trains run north from Penyffordd past Shotton station to Dee Marsh sidings, where the locomotive runs around before heading south back past Shotton and Penyffordd stations towards Wrexham.
An agreement was in fact reached for the half hourly service, which included a break in the afternoon for freight movements and the other service being a skip stop service. But TfW has decided this would be unworkable with the current stock available.
The 230s seem to be unnecessarily complicated, hence their continued unreliability. To use them on the Borderlands line with tight turnaround times at both ends was just asking for problems
Like I said on paper they should've performed well. Granted they needed much more testing before Covid and KeolisAmey trying to pull out of the deal meant the units sat idle for months, instead of being extensively tested.
Theres an easier way to save some minutes, increase the linespeed, particularly between Bidston & Dee Marsh. Some extra signals to break up the long sections would also help.
The Wrexham-Bidston Rail Users' Association has been trying to get Network Rail to raise the line speed for years. As the line is now mostly continuously welded rail there's no reason for the line speed to be so low. Line speed improvements are just one way in which the service could be enhanced, but ultimately additional signalling will be required and Padeswood sidings improved which will be costly.
If you would like to consider supporting the channel click: www.patreon.com/Chris_Rail_Focus or become a Member here on RUclips
Or you can support the channel by making a purchase on my Redbubble gallery
www.redbubble.com/people/engphotography/shop
It's interesting to see your ankle the issues of a smaller and more local line compared to your recent and understandable focus (see what I did there) on HS2, or what's left of it. Your video on the 777s sounds interesting.
Totally under reports the problems with the 230s, they were at driver training stage when overheating battery packs going on fire caused them to be withdrawn, then trained driver qualifications had expired by the time these were reintroduced. Then they had issues with filters being clogged by pollen and staff availability issues on top of the cumulation of late running causing cancellations on top of train failures in service, all meaning random replacement busses operating throughout the day. I believe a train failure caused a bus replacement on the very first morning on the new ¾hrly service!
A lot to squeeze into a short video to try and cover the last 4 years.
TFW Were Being Silly Removing Class 175s They've Only Just Refurbished Them So Getting Rid of Those Trains Is a Waste of Money I Hope The 175s Get More Use Elsewhere Maybe Northern Should Get The Ex TFW 175s 👍
These battery trains are a total gimmick and poor substitute to diesel or conventional electrification
Not really a gimmick, the technology has been around for decades. It just hadn't been applied to trains before. More testing and development was needed.
If someone at tfl would actually listen, they would realise that nobody cares if the journey takes a few minutes longer, and would far rather have trains runing to Birkenhead north 3rd platform, making getting to Liverpool far easier. Its an absolute joke to terminate at Bidston, always causing merseyrail delays
Merseyrail are one of the reasons TfW can't operate to Birkenhead North, they don't want diesel traction on their network, other than RHTTs. Also I believe the switch was removed that would be needed for trains to turn back.
You mean TFW?
@@Rail_Focus would the possibility of TfW getting battery powered trains make it possible for them to run to birkenhead north, and at that point wouldn't it just make more sense for merseyrail to run services on the line considering the battery powered trains could reach wrexham with their current capacity
Talks are ongoing between TfW and Merseyrail but it is possible we could see Class 777s operated by Merseyrail but in TfW colours. If they can find funding for cl777s they'll operate directly into Liverpool.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Great stuff - it does appear that TfW are in a bit of a muddle at the moment!
Feels like they've been muddled for 4 years, but this year has been particularly bad. It sometimes feels like they're still learning the ropes, being an operator that is relatively new.
Tfw got some d78 carriages down barry island.
There was talk of ordering more class 230s for the proposed swansea metro. Shame the 230s been so unreliable although theyve worked better than the 769s tfw had.
Ill be watching the gwr trial as maybe battery poewered 230s could work on the Wrexham to Bidston line perhaps if they could be charged on the move on certain sections of the line
I'm guessing there would need to be a change of 'ownership' from TfW to Merseyrail to facilitate use of the 777s, this would appear to be at odds with TfW trying to get a foothold in Liverpool with the services via the Halton curve?
There's talk of 777s driven by Merseyrail drivers but "painted" in TfW colours. Ultimately getting trains into Liverpool is more important than which operator owns them.
Do those trains have extending boarding ramps? I noticed that a woman with a pram and the massive height of the doorway from the platform. That line has always been the 'poor relation' and would be great to see it sorted out. Esp since they have the odd Hollywood star hanging around ;)
The Class 197s and 230s have steps unfortunately, I noticed the gap at Shotton is quite large. But if the Class 777 were to operate on the line then they would provide step free access.
There is still a big gap in the timetable from Wrexham in the evening. Including 1 train starting at Wrexham General.
Hopefully the higher frequency zbd better reliability will bring customers back like the Severn beach line
The gap is a little bit later now, 2 hourly used to start around 6pm. At least the 18:46 and 19:32 from Bidston helps workers travelling back from Liverpool, but agree it could be better later on.
So does TFW have its own engineering dept to upgrade the 230s? Just thinking of the Marstom Vale line pulling 230s as vivarail weren't around any more to support them
Maintained at Birkenhead North EMUD, with off-site facilities to overhaul the gen sets. TfW took on a few Vivarail technicians.
Why don't TFW just order three new 231 3-carriage versions. They probably could do the job on this line.
Would need 5 for the planned half hourly service. The Class 230s were supposed to be an inexpensive stop gap measure until we got trains capable of travelling to Liverpool.
@@Rail_Focus hi, thanks for the reply, that makes sense 🙂.
I must saying being in South Wales, I like the 231s a lot, they are great trains.
Is there a timeline for when electrification is expected?
I didn't know the state of Welsh transport was this bad
It's been pretty dire for the last few years across the TfW network 🙁
@@Rail_Focus wow and I live in Wales and I thought delays and cancellations was normal
I'm planning to explore the Borderlands Line. How can I find out when which class of train runs?
Real Time Trains shows which trains are operating at which time.
@@Rail_Focus I tried to plan ahead, but it just says the journey is pathed as Class 150 for all of them.
Ah yes sorry, usually only find out which units are operating that day after around 1am
@Rail_Focus I tried to ride the Class 320 and Class 197 today for a day trip from Upton to Wrexham, but I had to abort my trip. At first the 10.24 from Upton was cancelled and then the next train was already showing as over 20 minutes delayed about half an hour before it was due. I didn't want to be stranded in Wrexham forever.
@michaeldrabe9509 oh no sorry to hear that. Frustrating
I thought this was an excellent video. Content was accurate and relevant and the video material was well prepared. I travelled on the line in October and the service was very poor. My train was about 45 mins late and was terminated at Wrexham General without any warning. The short section on to Wrexham Central is now the only piece of TfW route I haven’t done! I hope to revisit the line and travel on the Class 230s.
Thank you so much, I always strive to make videos as informative and accurate as possible
i live in gwersyllt and dont like the 197s but I have to say, the service has been alot better recently to get to college and back
I'm not a huge fan of the 197s, but they are at least a bit quieter than Class 150s.
Having read recent news items, the half hourly proposal was rejected by Network Rail, as it conflicted with GBRF's request for paths. Both TfW and GBRF went to the ORR for a decision, and the current frequency is the outcome. Freight traffic coming to/from both the cement works at Penyfforrd and steel traffic to Shotton. Due to the track layout, the loaded cement trains run north from Penyffordd past Shotton station to Dee Marsh sidings, where the locomotive runs around before heading south back past Shotton and Penyffordd stations towards Wrexham.
An agreement was in fact reached for the half hourly service, which included a break in the afternoon for freight movements and the other service being a skip stop service. But TfW has decided this would be unworkable with the current stock available.
The 230s seem to be unnecessarily complicated, hence their continued unreliability. To use them on the Borderlands line with tight turnaround times at both ends was just asking for problems
Like I said on paper they should've performed well. Granted they needed much more testing before Covid and KeolisAmey trying to pull out of the deal meant the units sat idle for months, instead of being extensively tested.
The TfW Class 230 DEMUs are quite nice since they were introduced in service on the Borderlands Line.
They're great units on the inside, just a shame they haven't been reliable.
So true. Shame that Vivarail are no longer in business since they went into administration few years ago.
Another well managed project from Transport fror Wales!
Let's just hope it improves reliability
Theres an easier way to save some minutes, increase the linespeed, particularly between Bidston & Dee Marsh.
Some extra signals to break up the long sections would also help.
The Wrexham-Bidston Rail Users' Association has been trying to get Network Rail to raise the line speed for years. As the line is now mostly continuously welded rail there's no reason for the line speed to be so low. Line speed improvements are just one way in which the service could be enhanced, but ultimately additional signalling will be required and Padeswood sidings improved which will be costly.
@@Rail_Focus yep, exactly.
dwell times should be increased at both ends
The 45 minute frequency should allow for additional dwell times, but not easy at Bidston with the conflicting West Kirby services.
exactly why they should be able to use the third platform at birkenhead north@@Rail_Focus
Good news! I can hardly believe it...
Fingers crossed the new timetable works
@@Rail_Focus Likewise on the 230 refurbs!
good video
Thanks 🙂