Could Cork be ‘Independent’?
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- Опубликовано: 22 авг 2024
- Ireland is the second most centralised country in the OECD: its counties and regions are (politically) very weak by international standards.
Across government - whether it's health, housing, water or immigration - powerful arms of national government set the agenda with little room for independent local decision-making.
In this video, we explore the alternative to centralism - localism - through the lens of the county with arguably the strongest 'independent' streak: Cork.
Our thanks to Professor Deiric Ó Broin of DCU for speaking to us on this subject.
For anybody kind enough to support our work, we're on Patreon: / polysee
Some useful links:
www.oecd.org/r...
local-autonomy....
Thanks for watching,
The Polysee Team
K Lucid
V Malhotra
#ireland #localism #centralism #denmark #switzerland #schweiz #cork #politics
Lovely video Polysee. Extremely high quality production and content overall. Great to see Irish channels doing so well. We need more Irish content creators
Speaking as a Canadian, "localism" can also screw you right over. The overburdening of our provinces with complete responsibility for policing, infrastructure, healthcare, education, power generation, etc leaves provinces with smaller economies out in the cold while leading to more spending overall than if certain responsibilities were more centralized. Not to mention that while the federal government is fiscally sovereign, provincial governments aren't, meaning the provinces have to either rely on higher federal grants or higher taxes as they can't issue their own money. Now we can't do higher centralization due to many many political barriers but the reality is that our decentralization is continuing to screw us more and more over time
I agree with this. There must be a balance. Some amount of localism can be good, but I don't think it's the main issue in Ireland.
We have an obsession with never hiring any full time experts in any fields to perform new tasks, contracting every even slightly complicated job to some international consultancy firm who are essentially robbing the tax payer blind with high consultancy fees before any work actually even gets done. Just look at the new children's hospital which has taken far longer and cost way more than it ever was supposed to, still not finished.
I think perhaps a federal stipend given to each county or province for specific responsibilities, in addition to local taxes that the county or province collects might be a better system. I think autonomy is important for the legitimacy of the government to be upheld.
@@user-id9bn1ic9v That's already what we have and it means we as taxpayers pay more collectively
@@user-id9bn1ic9v The key issue here is fiscal sovereignty, now Ireland actually isn't fiscally sovereign because of the Euro (frankly a bad decision imo) so what I'm about to say will differ with regards to Ireland, but anyway. Most modern currencies are fiat currencies meaning in short their value is determined by the trust in the issuing institution. This means the only limit on how much money a country can produce is its "real economy" (i,e, its resources infrastructure and workforce) inflation is also an issue but only if your country holds a lot of debt in a foreign currency. In short this effectively means any fiscally sovereign nation can pay for anything they want so long as they have the resources, infrastructure, and manpower to build it. The issue here is that our provinces and your country as a whole aren't fiscally sovereign, meaning that they have to levy higher taxes to actually pay for their projects instead of using taxes to take money out of circulation to combat inflation. With a system like my country, this means we pay federal taxes to take Canadian Dollars out of circulation on the federal level, while also paying taxes to fund projects and policies on the provincial level. This is more taxes than if we simply had to pay on the federal level to take money out of circulation.
1. You assume that centralised government leads to less spending overall than locally accountable government. Why do you hold this belief?
2. Your real answer is now apparent. The Government must be able to deflate the currency to cover day to day spending. This is exactly why Canadians are suffering so-called inflation, which is more accurately described as currency debasement to cover central Government spending beyond its means,
I lived in switzerland where our cantons are highly Autonomous. The cantons even on their own recruit soldiers for the Confederal Armed Forces, beside tax, education system, police and so on. Decentralization can work when a nation or the nations in a state have a goal in common, where decentralized entities can work effecitvely without drowing in political intrigue. Switzerland is inhabited by german, italian and french speaking people, but they are all swiss and want a strong switzerland, which makes the cantons act together instead against each other. Decentralization is a privilege, not standart. But some states will still need a cenrtalized state, like Turkey where i'm living in since 3 years. Here, fats response is necessary due external threats, and the turkish people are united in many apsects which gives legitimacy to a centralized state. Cool article you write, polysee!
Brilliant video, no one else on youtube discussing these ideas. Thank you for promoting this healthy way if thinking
As a civil engineering student in ATU Sligo, this channel is a blessing to me.
As an Irish who lived in Denmark for years, it’s always interesting to see these countries compared !
Having started a masters in law recently, it is great to see the dense topics constantly popping up in your accessable videos! It's super useful for myself and the public to have a better grasp on how government could be improved. More Cork content would be greatly welcomed too. Great work lads
Forget about #cexit, it's all about Ireland #uncorked
Amazing content as always mate, so glad to see this kind of subject specific to Ireland. Please keep it up, great stuff!
Cork independent is a bit much not gonna lie, but all for localising minor matters. National government should be outsourcing issues that are not worth their valuable time.
We’ve just added quotes around the word independent to make it clear actual the word independence is tongue in cheek, but intended to make a serious point
Briliant episode, very informative!
Ireland should have a Federal system along the lines of Canada, but with the 4 provinces and Dublin being the states, as opposed to the counties. Many counties are larger and more sparsely populated than swiss cantons.
Counties should be more autonomous with regards to their existing functions.
Edit: also, town councils and local Mayors should be restored to give local communities back their autonomy.
There's a big problem with that in terms that one province is across two political jurisdictions, but would be an interesting proposal if reunification would ever come to pass.
@@user-pl2fp2zj8s until a potential unification it would be better if Donegal be made part of Connacht, and Monaghan and Cavan part of Leinster as a temporary measure. Only AFTER many years of unification would it be possible to hold a referendum to reunite the whole province. Until then, only the then former Northern Ireland and its institutions could become the provincial government of ‘Ulster’
There is one problem with our government already heavily corrupt and focus more on imigrants and asylum seekers
That was a damn good video my dude, bring on Limerick independence while we're at it!!
Are you serious
I have been living in Ireland for more than a year now and I most say beyond every reasonable doubt this is the Best RUclips that explains and offers solutions to the Issues in Ireland! Thanks a billion, Keeping up the Great Work ❤❤❤
thanks a lot
The swiss canton style governance is indeed not ideal for Ireland.
I reckon a Spanish autonomies style division would have gone great in Ireland 80 years ago, but implementing it at this point might be hard.
Perhaps considering more of a French style of governance where the regions derive power from the central government but the town councils derive power from the people, might be ideal.
Ive always been of the belife that Federalism is the solution to a united Ireland, and it would aee Munster capitaled by Cork have mich more autonomy
Mallow as the provincial capital would probably make the most sense geographically, but current NUTS classifications would need to be changed to align with provinces, which would (arguably) have more legitimacy than current Southern regional assembly. Topic for a future video
@@polyseeproblem is that mallows a shithole 😂
I moved from Ireland some time ago to a European country with a more decentralised form of government and the difference to our quality of life is unimaginable.
Here councils operate schools, childcare, primary healthcare, local planning, employment services amongst many other things. The state only decides levels of service, such as curriculum or health outcomes and national service policies such as inter regional transportation.
The ‘downside’ is; local government taxes. But this is balanced against a low level of national income taxes for most workers meaning my effective rate is lower than it would be in Ireland.
Another advantage of localism is that areas get to compete for taxpayers based on quality of life issues and tax rates. For example you may move to a larger city with shorter commuting times and moderate tax rates but you’ll pay high housing costs. To make rural areas competitive some will actually give you a free site for a house in the hope that you’ll stay there and pay taxes. In short you choose based on your priorities.
In Ireland, more people don’t necessarily equal more revenue for local authorities so what long term motivation would a local authority have to build more housing? With localism and decentralised taxation you can give councils a really good reason to innovate. Nice video.
Thank you for the nice and considered feedback. Interesting and useful
@@polysee no problem. Apologies for the longwinded comment. I do tend to go on …… a bit!
I feel like treating countries like economic units is really undignified.
@@johnnotrealname8168 nothing dignified about being poor.
@@Whatshisname346 Nothing dignified about being rich either. In any case there is a holiness to poverty but that is beside the point.
I have spent a lot of my life in Cork and from my experience there is little to no want for Cork independence
We’ve just added quotes around the word independence to clarify that we are not being literal. It’s a fun title for a deeper point, but appreciate the feedback as you’re not the only one who’s found the title jarring!
@@polysee I'm sorry I didnt mean my comment to be rude at all I was just sharing what I had seen. Honestly great video and I'm really liking the channel!
It's more of a running gag than an actual belief people have
Idk, I don't trust county councillors
Good point, but would you have faith in e.g. our current housing minister? Not sure I do
Very interesting video. Love to see high quality Irish content, especially about Cork!
I really enjoyed some of the videos you used to make. Do you think you'll ever return to uploading?
Great idea...as a Dub I fully support it!! As long as you take back Mehole Martin as your new leader 😅😅
You'll be stuck with the other A 🤣hole Varadkar lol
Great video
I happen to be a local election candidate in county Meath.
I’d say around 80% of the issues my county faces are a direct result of over-centralisation. There is a number of examples I could cite, but I think one of the biggest issues comes from a genuine lack of representation… the largest town in my LEA (Kells) at one point had 7 county councillors & 9 town councillors, today the town has 2 councillors who are resident in the town and claim to represent the town - both of whom are only part-time representatives with no staff & limited resources.
It is very unfortunate that political decentralisation isn’t higher on the agenda for this government or the opposition. Particularly when something such as the re-introduction of town councils seems to have the support of most in politics!
Thanks. There are noises being made - one FF Senator Malcolm Byrne did a report on it - but it doesn't seem to have 'caught on'. It's a drum we'll try to keep on hammering anyway, as well as exploring our apathy towards councils and what makes for good local government.
I have come to think that this would be a good idea for the reasons that you have stated. Putting local services in local hands should produce better results with the caveat that competent people are elected / employed to do those roles.
When you examine the level of nepotism and corruption that happens right down to the lowest level, I really don’t think it would improve anything. The country is rotten to the core with “who you know not what you know” and devolving more jobs to be parcelled out via family connections and playing the right sport will just make it worse.
@@Dreyno everywhere every country its who you know.. This is not an Irish issue. This is why social media exists. Why people go to parties and socialize or gather into political groups.
@@feral_orc Handing out jobs whose salary is paid with public money to friends and relatives is corruption. Many countries have strict laws overseeing that process. Ireland has strict laws on the matter which it does not enforce in the slightest. Often the most inappropriate people are given jobs they absolutely shouldn’t. Having a couple of friends who work enforcing exactly this sort of thing in other European countries, they are deeply perturbed by how accepting we are of it. We don’t know any better, I suppose.
@@Dreyno not what I said but okay. If you can show a well-known example I'd love to learn more. From what I understand, by your logic political parties in government wouldn't be allowed to appoint any ministers? They got elected, but not for any actual position they end up holding.
@@feral_orc Minister are elected. I’m talking about the public sector. Civil servants. Unelected, well paid, secure jobs that are sometimes recruited in the extremely dubious ways.
This is a great video. Really looking forward to more.
As a Corkonian who now lives in Dublin, I’m sorry, but every time decision making is left in Cork, it ends up with much worse outcomes. Just look how bad the Bus Eireann run city bus services are compared to Dublin Bus. It was local Cork BE management who decided to get rid of double decker buses and replace them with lower capacity single deckers and overall ran a very poor service. It took the NTA taking control of public transport for that decision to be reversed, Cork now had double deckers again and a much better bus service, with other NTA driven improvements like Leap cards, bus bus stops and shelters, RTPI screen, journey planning apps, etc.
You can also look at just how poor the Cork City and County councillor’s are, just look at how bad they are for NIMBYism, look at how they are trying to block and massively water down BusConnects Cork. How they watered down the car ban from Patrick Street etc. If you gave these people more power, Cork would turn into an even more car dependent hell hole then it already is.
Not that national politicians are all that much better, but a lot of the improvements are being forced down from EU level.
Thanks for the comment. We would definitely share some concerns of devolving autonomy to the councils 'as is' - and localism is not a panacea. It's a topic we'll stay with
from dublin and youve convinced me. nice video :)
I think just reading the title would convince most dubliners
Born and Bred Jackeen here.
I'm sick of the whole Dublin focus too. I want to live in a country with alternatives.
Workable alternatives, and workable for the many. Cork is in that league, maybe Limerick too.
But we need to bring them closer to Dublin's level. And level up places like Galway or Athlone. So that we can all choose our lifestyles more freely on this small island.
And not have so many people being pre-destined by necessity to end up in Dublin.
Squeezing into way overpriced Dublin suburbs for the crime of not wanting to face a huge commute, because once again the jobs are in Dublin, and the city center at that.
Its also plain old boring too, having so much focused only in Dublin, and annoying for locals like myself. Dublin or nothing is often a case, and its constrictive. And it makes for a poor housing market too.
So build it somewhere else for a change.
Pack of jokers 😂😂😂
Erin go Bragh
ALL HAIL SWITZERLAND, FROM DENMARK!!!!
Get this video more views. A very interesting idea
Well… Cork is big enough to be an EU state. More people than Malta. We have a national anthem, a naval base, a huge harbour, industry, tourism, scenery, ferries, an airport, a possible Parliament building down on the river, excellent food and water resources and we’re obviously closer to the continent, physically and spiritually, than Dublin. Cork city feels a lot more continental than Dublin does. If we did decide to go independent, best not try to stop us: Ireland’s last fight for independence was led by a Corkman. We even have a magical roundabout. Maybe we should be localised first and the rest of the country can watch to see how it’s done?
The rest of the country doesn’t look to Cork for anything. And that pile of sh1te you wrote is exactly the sort of self aggrandising, self absorbed bollox that people know it for.
@@CCc-sb9oj And Cork doesn’t? Supplying corned beef to the Royal Navy and having its “English Market” and all. Still has a “Lord” Mayor thanks to Queen Victoria.
And there’s at least nine Starbucks and eight McDonald’s in Cork city.
You’d swear you were talking about some village in the Gaeltacht.
Thanks for another top notch video! Would love to see an easy way to contact local TDs about putting forward such proposals, integrating your ideas into an actual push for change. The same way for how charity fundraising sites sometimes have a link that has a pre-written message to send to a local TD, with an accompanying tool to help find the TD who currently represents the viewer.
A measurement of centralisation independent of country size would be interesting. Germany is very decentralized but e.g. the most populous region in Germany, northrhine-westfalia has more than three times as much people than Ireland. It makes sense to be more centralised if you are smaller.
why did you choose the most populous region of one of the more densely populated countries in the developed world? if you wanted your point to land [ireland is too small] you need to compare it to the smallest decentralised region...
which would be Appenzell Innerrhoden at only 16 300 people, even the smallest Irish county has more than double this population. I see now why you used the wrong comparison, because it would go against your point. even comparing by population density the least population dense swiss cantons are similar to the least population dense irish counties (both around 20-30 people per square km) so even the infrastructure per capita is comparable (if anything worse for the swiss as building in the mountains is more expensive than flatter terrain).
perhaps Gdp per capita would be better for your arguement, i know ireland as whole has better gdp per capita, but i don't know by states. but by what i can see ireland is 100% big enough for decentralisation.
@@matthiuskoenig3378 Well, obviously you missed my point and don't know how comparisons work.
Keep up the great work Polysee! Love to watch your videos. Thank you for explaining overly complicated government practices. You seem to be one of the only resources out there that actually reveals problems and offers solutions in a pragmatic and thoughtful way, but good lord, how badly designed our system of government is..
Thanks Dan. We’ll keep plugging away
Centralised government has led to economic development being concentrated in the capital.
You have chosen good themes (governance and Ireland) in your channel. Keep up the good work! Wishing you a big growth in subscriber number.
Thanks a lot!
Fiscal autonomy is essential for a 2nd City to thrive. Cork not only has to go cap in hand to Dublin for funding but also has a few big hitter Corkonian politicians who have done very little for the City. Martin, Coveney and McGrath. What have they done for Cork? Very little.
Love this content- keep going!
I remember doing my Leaving Cert Politics class 4 years ago and the whole concept of localism was completely (and blindly) dismissed as corrupt and anti-democratic, at the time I disagreed in principle but (as a 16 year old just looking for cao points) didn't didn't care enough to actually look into things. This video perfectly demonstrates the issues that I, and anyone looking for the best possible Ireland, would readily jump on. May God help the west brits in Leinster House to fix these issues.
The idea of local authorities handling housing backlogs and non-EU immigration is excellent honestly
@ThatGuy-ky2yf Definely for housing but I think immigration should be a national issue.
@@antadhg well, at the very least a shared responsibility. At times one councilor would be aware and keep the public and even other councilors in the dark about incoming asylum seekers (yes this actually happened in Mayo) The issue is that most villages are getting documents saying that local property owners have organised with the gov to have migrants arrive at the properties around a week to even 4 days which is absurdly brief in notice and disrespectful to the locals.
@ThatGuy-ky2yf i completely agree but my personal belief somewhat sidesteps this issue entirely. I believe that immigration should be on such a low scale (no more than 1000 people per year), such that issues like councils and locals being left in the dark about massive amounts of unvetted men would never occur, as there would be no such amount of newcomers to begin with, only (highly selected) individuals and, on occasion, families.
@@antadhg A restricted system that monitors demographics like Singapore and/or Japan is ideal imo (Switzerland was mentioned in video too, maybe some good ideas also from there) Maintain a majority of the native group (ideally 90% minimum) and ensure the immigrants coming are quality and high skilled and not decreasing wages in various sectors and/or being dole merchants.
We have no regional spending for a reason. Look at dublin city council and the wonderful idea to build a rafting centre in the ifsc...
Great content, keep it up!
I think following a united Ireland we may see less centralism. If Stormont is maintained as a transitory device, funded and aligned with Dublin. Perhaps the impacts of this experiment will lead to more power to the provinces as a whole.
Absolutely not. Unionism needs to be respected, even if in name only. Northern Ireland will need to be special administrative zone of the UK, ROI or/and EU.
I think that a decentralised Republic would certainly make the proposition of a united ireland (provided democratic process favours it ofc) more palatable for those like myself who identify with the united kingdom and would probably be a step in the right direction for a cross-community, accommodating, northern ireland under a united Republic for the moderate Unionist populous. Far more so than a centralised all sinn fein united ireland anyway. Which ofc would be less favourable than hell itself in the eyes of the more hardline loyalist communities. Definitely an interesting idea as a northern Unionist. Thanks for pointing this out.
@@OwenOMcKinley would Northern Ireland with links to the UK, Commonwealth, EU, and Republic, whilst be distinct within itself avoid any threat of one community eclipsing the other? I can’t see a republic uniting the entire Ireland of Ireland without possibly restarting a new time of troubles. Belfast still has peace walls, in developed countries like the UK and ROI, seems unfathomable.
@@thomasfy4 Belfast is in the United-Kingdom of Great-Britain and Northern-Ireland and the Troubles are unlikely to start again. Violence is not creditable.
@@thomasfy4 to be fair, this is a little ridiculous. Why would you view a democratic majoritive referendum across two governments to be 'disrespecting' you? In which, unionism has a vote worth the same as anyone.
Brilliant video, I recently discovered this channel and love the way you're looking at some of the bigger issues in Ireland. I agree with the central thesis of the video, although as many folks have pointed out in the comments, there are big cultural differences between Ireland and other federal countries and any decentralisation initiative would need necessarily require fiscal decentralisation, which I see as the bigger political obstacle. on that note, the level of the debate in the comments is also refreshingly informed and respectful, may it long continue!
Thanks. Yes we regard this as the opening salvo on a complex topic that we hope to stay with
Very well put together as always. Totally agree with the points for localism. I nver really understood our push for nationalism and centralisation to the government. Housing and planning totally make sense to be at the level at which they will be used.
Love the thumbnail so much
That with the bus at 10:05 is hilarious
Cork city tech startup and geosocial movement checking in to get behind the Republic of Cork which is already engrained in our local culture. You can massively help democratise decision-making and public empowerment by supporting the development of open source digital public goods. Unsurprisingly Irelands centralised systems do not favour the decentralisation of tools and systems that democratise the production of knowledge and hold governments+polluters accountable.
I’m reminded of the Strong Towns movement in America. Interesting video and even more interesting to see how Europeans are talking about some of the ideas we’re talking about here in the states. Good job.
Cork is clearly an outpost of Wales, if you listen to their accent.
Cork probably should be independent imo. As someone from England, I support the idea that central government should be shut down, dismantled and should only hold the powers of national defence, and law & justice (i.e. running prisons, courts, deciding what should be illegal, etc) and foreign affairs with anything else being waste.
Cork like Catalonia would be so out of the EU that it would instantly collapse the economy for both 🤣 Yep. Idiotic idea. 😂
I read the title wrong and I thought "Why does anyone want pork to be independent? What does that even mean? Will pigs be let free to roam the streets and forests?"
I am baffled by the choice of a line graph suggesting continuous data to represent a list of countries in the first 30 seconds. Damn.
Pleasantly surprised at the lack of click bait here
It's interesting that you refer to the GAA as an example of bottom up organization because I'd point to them as a prime example of the shortcomings of this parochial approach - look at the stadiums in Munster (Semple, Pairc Ui Chaoimh, Semple, Fitzgerald, Gaelic Grounds, Walsh Park, Cusack Park)... too many substandard facilities used a handful of times a year because everyone needs their share and there is no central planning.
A fair point. This could be due in part to how government funding works. The money for these stadia wasn’t raised locally through local taxes - funding is obtained through lobbying for central funding, so it’s in each county’s interest to maximise their allocation, as all counties pay for it. Another case of concentrated benefits, distributed costs. Counties with more tax and spend powers would think more carefully about such spending
@@polysee Maybe, I agree with a lot of the points in your video but I think you underestimate tribalism when expecting local government to spend money more rationally than central government.
The HSE pushed very hard to close Ennis A&E and consolidate emergency services in UHL. Would a 'mid-west Health board' be able to make that change? I have my doubts if a Clare faction fought against it.
I can't see any county board moving to close Knock/Kerry/Waterford airports and consolidate services in Cork/Shannon, even if it meant they had more money to spend on health or housing.
Central government is supposed to applying a level of planning to funding allocation, if its not happening now then I don't see how moving decision making to a more local level would improve decision making.
Even if it made sense for Cork to fund a Luas light rail instead of a new stadium with multiple 44k capacity in the province, the mindset would be to keep up with the Jones' and build a 45k stadium. And conversely, trying to convince people that it doesn't make sense to have a 45k stadium in Tipp...
The government is currently trying to grow Cork as a counterbalance to Dublin, the most pushback you hear would be from 3rd/4th/5th cities who'd rather go to Dublin than see Cork grow at their expense.
👏very well done!. These are the hypothetical questions I love seeing explored! ..would love to see a video on what would logistically have to happen if Cork ever did become the Capital of Ireland.
pie charts and graphs aside how does this work? Take schull they have a rubbish dump there.
They collect 15 ton of rubbish a week. That's one small skip. That covers Bantry crookhaven Durrus and Goleen, that's about three thousand people.Centralism works when you have a small population but for how long?
A very interesting video.
I think autonomy would be a more appropriate word than independence, as they would still be deferring national issues to the state, but that would make a less interesting title.
I think the Irish state has always had a deep mistrust of local councils, as they are left over instruments of British rule, and efforts to undermine local government go all the way back to De Valera.
My own town, Drogheda, has really been at a disadvantage since the urban councils were dissolved.
I firmly believe that we need to give back as much power as practical to local authorities, and figure out a proper model for funding them, as well as bring back urban councils. I also think it's essential that we take away the ability for ministers to meddle in local affairs, otherwise they can undermine a local government's carefully worked out plans on a whim.
Fair point. We’ve just added quote marks around the word independent. Autonomous is a more accurate word but a little less fun, and the title makes way for a more serious point
A great idea!👌🏻 But if Cork goes independent, you’ve to take back MeHole Martin and we never have to hear that winey high pitched accent anymore!
This is what the RTE should be making.
Cork people are now officially moving from trashing dublin to officially asserting their independence now and I love it 😎
Maith thú! 👍👍👍
I support localism but still Ireland first, counties second. 🇮🇪
I actually think corporation tax being semi-localised would be a good idea. A higher corporation tax in Dublin relative to other areas could encourage investment elsewhere in Ireland rather than defaulting to Dublin.
Thanks, yes a tax ‘slope’ away from Dublin would be interesting
CLICKED FOR CORK MUP CORK
If you are from Ireland you know why this video concept is fucking HILARIOUS
Cork needs an event Centre which is 10 years over due , this for me would be a game changer for the city . Cork makes up a third of the countries industrial output it punches a way above its weight for what it gets back in return from central government .
this is a reactionary video. The suspicion of centralization stated here is ultimately an affirmation of private interests and a sort of libertarianism.
And arguing for localism so as to promote some idea of "experimentation"? The State is not a start up company. The state protects people, not private interests.
As a non-EU national living in Ireland, I already deal with so much unnecessary and slowly-improving bureaucracy. Thus adding an additional layer of likely more fluid rules coming from a local government fills me with dread.
Great video, new subscriber here!
class video
Great video!! We need local inovation🤘
Well it is called the rebel county. Good video
Fantastic video - I've just subscribed on Patreon, but I suspect you'll need to promote that more explicitly if it's planned to be a significant income stream to support the channel.
An interesting counter-point is the situation in the UK right now, where local authorities are beginning to go bankrupt and the central gov is having to step in more heavily to support budget deficits - caused at least in part by the point around lack of scrutiny as LGs will desperately try to keep any financial issues under wraps until it's too late.
However, I'm tentatively in favour of more localism in Ireland - there's a possibility it could also somewhat stem the brain drain from the rest of Ireland to Dublin, if there's a way to still make meaningful impact without being based in the capital.
Thanks a lot for that. Yes we probably need to make the fundraising appeal clearer. As for the UK example, we want to return to the specifics of local governance - strong CEO, councillors, directly elected mayor - there is a wealth of literature on this from the US. No matter what system, the quality of the personnel attracted in is probably the biggest driver of success, and there is a good degree of apathy towards LG in the UK & IE. Our goal in this video was to get the discussion going to start with, as many (most?) don't realise how centralised Ireland is by international standards, and to a lesser extent the UK. Our advocating for localism doesn't mean we are advocating to the local councils as is. Thanks again for the contribution.
the peoples republic of cork rises
Democratic Confederalism would be unfathomably cool in an Irish context. There's a good video on Confederalism on the Solidarity Economy Association channel
A good exploration of the benefits of localism, but you might have looked at the situation in the UK (especially given the reference to the North near the end). Policy pluralism - which is presented (rightly, I think) as a benefit here - was supposed to be a benefit of devolution in the UK. That was until you had a situation with one party in Westminster and opposing parties in Holyrood and Cardiff Bay. Because the lion's share of public money comes from Westminster, the UK government can always use finances as sticks to beat the devolved administrations with. So, to have really effective localism, you would need extremely clear safeguards and proportionate powers to raise money (taxes and loans). This means amending the Constitution (which is not a bad idea, imho).
We know why local government was frowned upon. There is no need for that distrust now though. Things are going along nicely.
As a Canadian who moved to the USA many years ago, I’ve come to seriously appreciate the powers of local government. At the county level there are initiatives and referenda. The counties also administer roads, power and water. There are county courts, sheriffs, and so on. Frankly, I love it. None of this exists in Canada. This may be a good fit for Ireland. I also wonder if it would be attractive to unionists in the north. They might like joining a united Ireland if they could control their counties, say Antrim and Down. In my perfect world, localism solves all problems. You could have a “right to bear arms” county for those who love guns. If you don’t like guns, you move to another county. You could have a “no abortion” county. If you really must have abortion, then you move to a county that allows it. And on and on. But you have to be mature enough as a nation to realize all people are not alike, and to allow people of different persuasion to live as they wish. Then again, this is the American way; it’s not for everybody. I’ll just say after living in the USA for many years, I couldn’t go back to Canada and give up these freedoms
Thanks for the thoughtful post. What's interesting is that Canada is top of the sub-national spending list, but from what you're saying it hasn't followed through with other forms of decentralisation in order to give true autonomy. The US's localist instincts have been there since the beginning, as de tocqueville documented so well. Our email is info@polysee.ie should you ever wish to discuss localism some more, as it's a theme we'd like to stay with. Thanks again
so... the 'Rebel County' is using a 'British Red Bus' to advocate for autonomy..... all kidding aside, this was an informative and useful exercise in contrasting the handling and application of governance. Well done!!
Well, “Rebel County” only comes from a squabble over a claim to the English throne, so…….
Good video but on specifics Cork first needs to get its act together environmentally. It has some of the worst infrastructure for dealing with floods, sure it gets a lot of rain and suffers the brunt of much of the storms that hit, and will continue to hit, Ireland but unlike say Waterford or even small towns like Lucan that suffered flooding a good few years back, absolutely nothing has been done about it. The West of Ireland suffers from these problems but there is so much bally-hoo about the wonderful modernity of Cork that this must be pointed out to avoid disaster by lack of future-proofing. Cork is positioned to avoid much of the infrastructure and property related traps Dublin has painted itself into but if it cannot avoid the obvious, documented mistakes of Dublin or Waterford say, then sorry to say its going to struggle to find novel solutions to its unique problems. Cork has just one obvious, low-hanging fruit benefit - lots of land. Its the biggest County in Ireland. I say do with that what you will. Ireland's political class will only ever invest in the low-hanging fruit. It is risk-averse as a country, this goes for research funding as well as infrastructure. So yeah local funds distributed throughout much of Ireland is going to be seen as always robbing Peter to pay Paul, with Leinster generally and Dublin specifically being the economic engine of Ireland with the rest of the country being simply fuel in the eyes of much of the establishment.
In case of independence, wouldn't Cork screw Ireland?
Ireland has the highest percentage of its population living in its capital metro of any european country of its population, makes sense to centralize.
Also from my personal experience in places like sweden, though many services are provided locally, there is basically zero regional autonomy; its just that many services are provided by regions/communal governments. Legal items are all centralized.
I love me county!!!!
Nice video, but can i ask, are you Irish
Yes, he is
Make Kerry a kingdom
Great video cork independence would be good
""Immigration is one issue in which the national debate has become increasingly toxic"
I wonder how you came to that conclusion, Polysee ;)
Biggest issue by far
I was more referring to how a whole comment section of theirs got destroyed by pro-underpopulation trolls@@Prodrive1
I am in favour of replacing the county councils with regional councils. Manchester has one council for 4 million so connaught munster leinster and dublin (and eventually ulster with Donegal cavan monaghan) are easily able to handle the regional needs for their areas.
On paper that makes sense. But unfortunately the reality is that Irish county identities are locked in and what interest a council for Connacht run out of Galway would have in Leitrim, for example, would not be identifiable under a microscope.
Presuming representation is on a per capita basis, some counties that are already behind the 8 ball for funding would find themselves completely forgotten about.
@dreyno no different than Leitrim being administered from dublin as it is now. Just a matter of ensuring funding happens legislative and ensuring accountability. Germany Switzerland and Denmark already have strong developed templates that ireland can learn from. And galway is a lot closer to the leitrim identity than dublin. It would also remove the all roads leading to Dublin syndrome that plagues irish infrastructure. Roads should lead to the regional capital for better balanced development.
@@andrewlally605 And with that you’ve shown your lack of understanding of the topic. Galway has little to no relationship with Leitrim. More Leitrim people work in Dublin than Galway. Vague proximity does not make them close in other ways. The vast majority of Galway people have never set foot in Leitrim. Or Sligo.
The parochialism of Irish life means looking after the home patch is priority number one. Sligo, for example, hasn’t had a minister since the late 80s and has suffered accordingly. Making government even more disparate and convoluted will only exacerbate these issues.
All roads lead to Dublin and it’s up to a strong central government to alleviate that. Not a clique of turbocharged county councils.
@@Dreyno have you got the stats to prove your assertion the vast majority of galway people have never set foot in Leitrim? Cos otherwise you're spouting bull!
@@andrewlally605 Parents from Leitrim but born in Galway. Asking for “stats” in the full knowledge that there is zero chance I have paid Red C for a poll on the topic is more than a little pathetic if we’re being honest.
Most examples of "centralisation" you point out are just practical planning measures and changes in bureaucratic management, not a change in the real autonomy/democracy exercised by a community over their locality - especially nothing akin to "independence." The formation of Irish Water, centralisation of flight authority, health boards etc. are all practical needs. The people never exercised any say over these and they are all infrastructure related (not saying they improved though). And as for the Swiss idea of taxing locally - if Ireland did that then counties like Donegal would stay poor forever and never develop. They're already shite as it is. We need richer counties to fund the development of less developed ones. The richer ones, theoretically, will get more FDI and fund the poorer ones which will get public investment until it is developed enough to get foreign attention and develop itself locally as well.
A well produced video however the idea that localism fixes the issues are laughable... the issues isn't about centralisation ... it's about politicians who CARE .... a political system no matter how great it is fails if majority of the the politicians don't CARE .... localism will just prove people in the council also don't care
As a Galway man I support Cork Independence, if Cork was independent Galway would be the biggest county in Ireland
The Dublin government gave Cork taxpayers money to Dublin airport. Dublin airport loaned our money to our airport in Cork. Everytime we use our airport, we have to pay fees to Dublin for loaning our money to our airport. Yes, I think Cork and the other 31 counties in our country would be better off going it alone. See if Dublin can stand, without being propped up by the rest of us.
There's only 26 counties in the Republic though so don't you mean the other 25?
No. End of, who the hell thought this was an idea in the first place? The quebecois? /s
You didn't really respond to objection #3, which is that localism helps obscure and perpetuate corruption, mismanagement, and patronage. The only people who could be tasked with stopping local corruption are the same people who are benefiting from it. It means that even if you expose a local instance of corruption, most people in that locality are not bothered or maybe even support the corruption because they have a personal relationship and support the beneficiary.
Federal system based on the four Provinces.
You make a very good point
Great video - lots to think about however theres no way I would like local councillors to have more power .
This is certainly an interesting discussion and one that deserves a lot more discussion, as any of the existing systems have their advantages and disadvantages and we should always seek to improve upon existing ideas for example, a decentralised health system was a disaster during Covid in Switzerland, with each Kanton setting its own rules for masks, social distancing etc. Equally local planning boards have been shown in many countries to be very prone to corruption. And An Bord Pleanala as I understand is an Appeals Court and not where planning is initially granted, I don’t believe a decentralised appeals court would be either cheaper or change a culture of NIMBYism/corruption. Also the system of voting for local governments and on local spending which Swiss people hold dear and I very much appreciate, is considered incompatible with the EU and one of the main reasons that Swiss people reject EU membership. I believe all governments whether centralised or decentralised have to work more to be increasingly transparent , which should be easy and cheap in the age of the internet. Yet instead it seems to have become an excuse for more red tape, which I don’t quite understand. There is a lot more to unpack in this topic and I don’t believe its as simple as saying this or that department should be decentralised. If a government was run like a business, then each business process (irrespective of department) would be analysed individually to see whether costs or efficiency could be improved by centralisation or decentralisation. But as is, decentralising a top heavy health board would just as likely lead to several top heavy decentralised health boards. Governments and esp. the Irish government has always had a problem to attract talent. It has a long history of cronyism and culture of uninspiring civil service, and wonderfully expensive investigations that have never led to any real consequences for any politician or civil servant and until that changes, I don’t see how any changes to government structure could lead to any desired outcome.
I think that's a nuanced and not invalid critique and concern with localism. We're certainly not zealots for localism, we want to explore why Ireland is the second most centralised country in the OECD - localism / centralism, is not a binary thing - as you say it deserves more discussion
Ironically a proposal such as this was sought by the Catholic Church in line with subsidiarity (There was a commission in 1944 which went nowhere.). The liberal side of the equation generally wanted a stronger state. Before a certain semi-Cuban wandered in the reason was the Irish Civil War (1922-1923) and the fear of unrest but later there was genuine belief in the thing. As for the question, I prefer subsidiarity but Ireland has little reason to be, culturally it is unitary (Well for the foreseeable future...or a decade.) and the West has always, and still is on the islands, been savage (As it were.). I believe in a strong state but there is little reason beyond Defence and that is a big deal for me *WHY DOES IRELAND HAVE BARELY A MILITARY?!* Stop relying on the United-Kingdom of Great-Britain and Northern-Ireland for your Defence @~?£.
There is literally a 1952 Anglo-Irish air defense treaty still in place under which the UK provides defense in Irish aerospace which completely undermines Irish neutrality and autonomy from NATO.
Imo Ireland needs to look to the Swiss model of militarised neutrality with constitutionalised neutrality paired with sufficient military capacity to independently make any attempt to undermine the sovereignty of the country a pyrrhic effort (most likely having to exclude the UK).
@@kwoltekublai3337 *YES!*