the thing is, the Godot's creator himself also seems to approve this whole sh!tshow in the first place. it's apparent now that this whole organization is literally just a bunch of same kind of people echoing their own same opinion to one another. huge red flag. and also psychopathic af.
Virtue signaling. Godot/$ANY_CORP leadership think they're righting the wrongs of society by giving marginalized individuals that have been abused by society, public facing jobs.
To be frank, 1) because it's usually women in PR. In general, women prefer jobs that deal with social interaction as opposed to building things, that's why very few men get into that sort of occupation. 2) Women generally are more emotional and short term focused. They will go off the rails easier than men without thinking of the long term consequences. 3) Women generally get away with breaking their toys through most of their lives due to societal norms. Thus they will do this until it's a significant disaster for all those around them. In other words, the "talent" pool they are selecting from has a very high proportion of unstable individuals and out of desperation, they will just pick a warm body to fill the role .
@@xExekut3xit is like relying on lead jacket while trying to stay on top of the water. Better to drown the jacket and swim freely than just go to the bottom with it happy you wear something that should protect you. What are you gonna do with all the credits, little money and nice words when your company doesn't exist anymore? Get rid of those lunatics asap and you won't lose any of your clients. And if you lose any crazy backers? So? They are not your clients. They won't provide you with constants cash inflow. People right now are deaf for any woke screech. The louder the woke screeches the better the product is. So they can try to cancel everything. It is the free ad for any product. Those companies are insane right now. Just jumping out of cliff every single one and blaming clients for everything. But in the end. We don't need them. They need us. So whatever. People stopped caring couple of years ago. We are actually cheering for every single bankruptcy.
Pure insanity the Godot situation. They got such a boost after the horrible Unity strategy last year and they just threw their chance for what? Letting one insane person to do whatever it wants to without any consequence? How are these corporations just putting their head into sand and wishing the issue will go away I will never understand.
Because western cultures loved toxic woke ideology for the last decade for some reason. Now it is slowly imploding because the hatred is hurting everyone.
@@joshb8215 The Tech industry itself is infected. Same with all those consultancy companies giving bad advice to all the gaming companies. These businesses aren't exactly victim here.
4:30 It's interesting that when you see most software engineer don't care about this, your explanation is "they don't like it, but they're afraid of the DEI boogieman coming after them, so they stay quiet", rather than "they're just interested in the code, not the twitter drama, and the code is open source and not effected at all." This "crisis" has been met with a vast wave of utter disinterest by the vast majority of software engineers, because it's just nonsense twitter drama that will be gone in no time. Trying to reframe disinterest as "scared into silence by the DEI" is kinda sad really.
"Just ignore it" why don't you just ignore the video? Why don't you just ignore the people pushing back against abuse? Because you likely agree with what's being done, and cowardice is the only issue.
@@I-ONLY-BUILD-MECHS-AND-DUSTERS Why ignore the video, when the uploader claims that the engine has self-destructed and also claims they're going to look at it from an engineer's perspective, yet the entire video is just fake culture-war talking points that exist exclusively online. There's nothing about how the engine's tools and functions have become worse. There's not a single statement an actual engineer with a real bachelor's or master's would utter. This person just doesn't exist on a day-to-day basis out in the real life. A brief glance at the comment section provides a very clear view of who's actually industry people, software engineers, programmers and otherwise university educated people, because they are questioning the validity, the inconsistencies and providing actual explanations backed up by evidence. And then there's the brain-rotted culture-warriors who are just getting angry online today, like they did yesterday and like what they're going to do tomorrow as well.
So I don't want to get in an argument here and Unity did mess up bad last year but they completely reverted on their changes. This includes the CEO, some of the board, etc... They seemed to have steered the ship in a new direction. Don't know what the future holds, and I hope they've learned from that mistake, but I'm staying on the engine for that reason. Let's hope Godot finds a way to come back from this.
@@HotDumpsterCrab It isn’t. It’s only comparable if you’re afraid of gay people. Only a bigot would view this as a game engine “getting political.” The blocking people was a lil weird but they made statements and an effort to undo it afterwards. Not at all comparable to screwing devs over
@@bodardr The more fundamental problem is that even though Unity reverted the changes, they've already shown that they have the power and the willingness to implement the changes in the first place. With Godot, even if they wanted to do something like that, they couldn't, since the engine is under the MIT license. So I'd rather use a product with an idiotic but powerless team than one with a smart but power-hungry team.
the thing is godot situation way way worse than unity, you may ask why? the answer is simple: 1) unity situation can be explained with logic - its simple greed, which is understandable, predictable thing which has place in business 2) godot situation can not be explained logically at all, bcs in its core it caused by ideological zealotry which has no place in business
@@MEMUNDOLOL 1. No, the Godot situation is not nearly as bad because, once again, the people behind the social media account have no control over what people can and can't do with the Godot engine, unlike Unity. The severity of a situation is not determined by the amount of logical sense it makes. 2. I can explain the Godot situation quite simply with logic: The social media manager is power-hungry. They are using ideology as an excuse to seize power and keep it by calling anyone who stands up to them bigots. In reality, most people who hold their type of ideology don't actually believe in it, they just use it to gain power by cry-bullying people into submission.
what do worldviews have to do with programming 3d engines anyway? the only politics that should be involved should be the decisions of the programmers in getting features in the game engine itself.
The answer is nothing at all, it's just that people with borderline zero substance, knowledge, passion and actual experience seem to love to force their views onto others in other words - Twitter is Twitter, and Twitter is bad
Oh god I am so tired of youtube farming "engine drama." Please, I know it gives lots of views but the controversies are getting phonier and phonier just to keep those views coming. This stuff doesn't matter to anybody actually doing something and not just browsing twitter all day long.
I recently started using godot (before all this happened) and was pretty ok with the engine. Now im afraid that i will have to migrate to another platform. This makes me sad and angry because i will have more work now.
I was only in one year on Godot for my own game. Doing it myself now, takes longer but probably a good learning experience. Keeping tabs on Redot though.
I just started using Godot engine today and was so confused on the review bombing on Steam... I had no idea wtf was going on. It seems way overblown on both ends and I feel like most the people who are outraged about wokeness don't even do real development. My main concern as a dev clicking this vid would have been them going closed source and removed their MIT license. Oh yeah and for context I don't use Twitter/X so I was really lost at first.
I think it would be a big deal for people who are game devs as those are most of the people who got blocked initially, including people who donating monthly to support the development of the engine.
If they don't remove the 'MIT license' not a single true developer will care, literally its the only good thing on the engine, its a 'baby' engine, its not full of features but it work, its fully customizable if you need (you have full access to the source code to modify if you need) and the only "fee" is to put the license in a txt on the main game folder and the made in godot line. They can shove a tease on their lower half all day if they want, no one truly care about it, it just the media who want the "be the first to cover the news" that want to win the easy to farm "woke is bad" 99% just want to fool around and see people argue for fun, it the new "shock video / viral easy click bait" form
The Godot situation is bad, but nowhere near as bad as the Unity situation was. A few idiots throwing a tantrum on what is supposed to be a company account is bad, but they can't stop people from using or modifying the engine however and whenever they want. And even if they tried to use something like the terms of service to restrict the users of the engine, the Godot source code is under the MIT license, so anyone could just get the code and modify/use it how they please. In fact, since Godot is open source, you don't even have to stop using the engine in order to stop supporting the Godot foundation, if that's what you want to do. Just don't donate to the foundation. The Unity situation was MUCH worse because they were essentially trying to rug-pull developers into a bad deal that they would've had to accept since Unity users are essentially at the whim of the terms of service.
The Unity runtime fee was introduced before this channel was started, but it was a seismic shift for games. Every major developer that used Unity basically flamed their Unity reps to the point that they had to fire their CEO and oust everybody that pushed for it. For a big open source project like Godot the only reason it's been able to get as far as it has is because everybody comes together to contribute to it. If your idea doesn't need anything super special you can use whatever Godot version that strikes your fancy, but if a lot of contributors stop contributing the project will stagnate over time. With Unity cancelling the runtime fee it's hard to recommend people go with Godot if it's going to be fractured and push away contributors with overbearing politics.
@@OujirouYT I generally agree, except on a few points: 1. In terms of overbearing politics, as far as we know, the controversial X and Discord behavior came from a few bad actors from the community management team who went rogue, and may not accurately represent the majority opinion of the Godot team. If so, they certainly have a hiring issue, but the controversial behavior will likely be apologized for and not repeated. Otherwise, we will likely see several forks pop up to represent the different opinions that people have on this issue. In this case if you don't like the Godot foundation, you could either find or make a fork that supports your philosophy. We already see this happening with Redot. 2. When you say contributors, I'm unsure if you're talking about financial supporters or programmers, so I'll just comment on both scenarios. If you're talking about financial supporters, I do agree that if Godot doesn't apologize, a chunk of supporters will likely stop funding the main fork of Godot. But I also think that if someone is passionate enough about game engines to support them financially, they would likely switch to supporting one of the other forks. So the money would ultimately go to a better team working on the same project. Same with the programmers, as we once again see with the Redot fork. 3. Yes, this means the community would be split, but that doesn't necessarily mean that progress on the project would stagnate. If anything, it means we'll see tons of different Godot-based engines tailored and specified to tons of different genres and workflows. It does mean that Godot won't ever be able to compete with enterprise level software like Unity and Unreal, but that was never the goal for Godot. 4. Even with everything else considered, there are still plenty of reasons to use Godot over Unity: It is open source, so you can know exactly what it does and modify it, Games made in it are generally better on performance, the engine itself is tiny and has amazing performance, it has better linux support, and there is no requirement to upgrade your plan after certain purchase thresholds. Most importantly, even though Unity has removed the runtime fee, they have already shown that they have the power and willingness to try it, so the consumer is still vulnerable to whatever Unity decides to put in their TOS. Since Godot is open source and under the MIT license, it is pretty much impossible for them to do anything like what Unity did.
Right now the only real contender to Godot is Redot which I think is a good sign. Having two entries instead of 10 is way better for the community at large. As long as the indie devs that are using the engine are taken care of that's the most important thing to me. It takes a lot of time, energy, and passion to spend your extra time to try and make a game, I would hate to see any of that wasted because of bad actors in Godot splitting the community up. As for Godot over Unity I would argue if a developer wanted to move from working on a small Indie project into a bigger game studio they would better serve that career path by choosing Unity. Most shops using publicly available engines are using either Unity or Unreal, but that's up to the individual developer to decide on where they want to focus their skills for the future. Though even then, I concede that if you willing to learn then switching engines isn't super hard if a company is willing to teach you the ropes.
@@OujirouYT I agree with you there. The goal should be for developers to be able to make their games unharrassed and with reliable tools. That's kinda the reason I've been so defensive of Godot. I've been making a passion project in it for awhile, and the engine itself is perfect for what I'm doing. It's a shame to see the community managers tarnishing the engine's reputation. Anyway, thanks for engaging with me. I hope your channel does well!
@@chaosmachines934 Here's how to tell the difference between a scam and something genuine. A scam wants money for very poor effort and latter offers either nothing or misses what it promised on. Without money it can't be a scam, Because you're not out anything. Redot hasn't been asking for money. And the creator has said that he's not going to be until the engine is released.
The Only political view I think Godot should promote is perhaps Open Source. But even this is is borderline. But it should certainly not get involved in who people choose to sleep with. Or how they identify. It is a Game Engine. I been a Gold Supporter since 2021. First on Pateron and then on Godot Foundation Dev Fund. But I just canceled it. Until they get their shit together I'm staying away from funding them.
i think, there's definetenly overreaction on every side. Saying woke, is putting politics in videogame engine. Is a bit much. The original tweet's biggest crime imo was being extremely cringe. when they started blocking everyone that was the real offense
So you will be using a tool to make a living that is being developed not by professionals but by a random "filling the quota people"? Is this what you are saying? Engineers are people that think ahead. This tweet alone is enough information for them to understand what are the priorities of the GoDot as a game engine. What will it be in 2 years? Will it be a better game engine with less bugs and more feature or a social mess with more flags/pronouns/politics? Choosing a tool like a game engine is not like buying a candy. It's a long-term investment with no option to go back. P.S. Some people are paying for that. Is saying that you're not getting what you're paying for an overreaction?
People are tired of people screwing around, and bullying everyone. It's not an overreaction, it's a reaction to a lot of things at a person who's symbolic for a terrible trend in society.
honestly imo the community managers of godot have nothing to do with the actual engine itself, i don't personally think this should be such a big deal as it is rn. we should look at the engine instead of the nonsense that the community managers are doings.
Don't know man, I dropped godot after the previous clownfest drama that definetly affected the engine. I was honestly surprised how it gained popularity through the last year. But it seems we should credit Unity for that.
"honestly imo" Jesus grow a spine instead of starting your idea with a bunch of weasel words. That's a clearly insane person deciding who gets to speak or not in the public square and you just want to bend over and take it when you don't have to. Well, if you'll just take terrible treatment from them, you will probably take it from anyone, including me and anyone who disagrees, so there is no reason to listen to such advice.
The community manager probably doesn't deal with the engine at all, probably doesn't know coding tbh. But that does not mean it doesn't affect the engine. For example, one notable donator pulled out, a few contributors to the engine were blocked on GitHub, and maybe more people stopped donating. How does this affect the engine? Not a clue, but it doesn't look too good.
Apparently the creation of this toxic community had already put off some of the people that were actually developing the engine. So nah, this is a big deal.
@@I-ONLY-BUILD-MECHS-AND-DUSTERS How is using an open source engine that community managers have no power over and doesn't benefit those managers at all "bending over and take it when you don't have to"? Just don't donate to the foundation and you're good. You don't even have to stop using the engine because, unlike Unity, using the Godot engine does not benefit the Godot foundation at all.
Honestly, this whole "woke" drama around Godot started from a simple tweet, and while it blew up, it’s really not that deep. These kinds of controversies pop up in online communities all the time and usually fade away when people get back to focusing on the important stuff. Some people are saying Godot might’ve lost contributors over this, but let’s be real: most devs either don’t care or actually support the message Godot was putting out. And forking the engine in protest? We’ve seen this before, and most forks based on political disagreements end up going nowhere because they can’t keep up with development. Now, I don’t agree with how they handled the controversy by user blocking-it’s a bad look for sure from a PR perspective, and for the project. But do I think they were wrong for posting the tweet? Not at all. It wasn’t harmful, and honestly, the tweet aligns with what a lot of us devs and users think. If someone’s that upset and decides to stop supporting the project because of a tweet like that, I think the community will be just fine without them.
"actually support the message Godot was putting out." Assuming that you are referring to that initial tweet that started this controversy, it really didn't look like a 'message' to me, tbh, and even if it was, then they're telling their supporters it's totally fine to be "woke". Like, okay, but why, though? Genuine question. "It wasn’t harmful, and honestly, the tweet aligns with what a lot of us devs and users think." From the amount of people I've seen that uses Godot responding to the controversy, yeah, I'd say that a good portion of them thinks otherwise. "If someone’s that upset and decides to stop supporting the project because of a tweet like that, I think the community will be just fine without them." Does this applies to the very people that the Godot Foundation CLEARLY is pandering to? In this case, the LGBT community.
@@Milan____I don't even have a twitter account and I know about it! People said nobody would care that SBI worked on games and then all games they so much as touch are immediately boycotted! Gamers DO care and since it's gamers that are the customer base for games development, this will end Godot! Bring politics into any gaming circle and it's game over for you! We've seen this over and over and over and anyone who thinks it won't happen to them is an idiot!
An open source engine destroys itself? If the current people behind the engine mess up, others will come, that's exactly the advantage of an open source engine with a MIT license. It's like Linux. If someone screws up, Linux won't go under. And comparing Godot to unity is pretty limited. They are two completely different approaches. That's why I just say, drama drama drama.
As a senior software dev, it ain't that simple. The problem is 100 people fork a failing project and every single one thinks THEY should be the new owner of the project going forward. And the audience divides themselves among the 100. Which translates to no individual project getting the attention and support it needs to continue on. Forking an open source project is like going off a ramp in a car and hoping there's another ramp on the other side to land on without crashing. It's a gamble. You hope one of the forks will be obviously better/more official than the others. Concentrating all the attention and developer resources on just one fork and the project can continue. But that doesn't always work. And even when it does, it can take years for the main fork to emerge.
we'll just have to see what time gives us, personally i'll still use godot cuz i think it's a great free open source project, all tho it won't get as much support as it used to i think the current tools that are provided are enough for me
@@onslaught147 that's kind of a misrepresentation of the problem. the problem isn't that audiences are divided, I mean it's not hard to share code, look at the BSDs and all the linux distros with their own versions of software the problem is forking is easy, project management is hard, and most open source projects have very few actual devs, so most forks will fail but it's not like it's an RNG thing, it's just a matter of: do the people forking it actually have the time and energy to commit to manage it, and will the devs still be willing to work on it?
I work for a very conservative, Christian owned company. The entire company just had to have training which smelled suspiciously like DEI. Our company has been working with the government lately. You do the math and you can see where it's coming from. If you want that state sponsored money, and that is a BIG pool, you have to bend to their will. I'm in the sunk cost fallacy crowd - I spent a good part of the past two decades trying to learn Unity (and relearning several times as they changed, replaced, or removed core functionality), and I really wasn't in the mindset to learn a new engine. Godot is a good engine for beginners for sure, but if you work for a triple A you most likely will be using Unreal and maybe Unity, so there is that too. I did my time already and now I just write games for the fun and challenge. I'm done with super crunches that last 6 months only to deliver a buggy product because the producers insist on having something in front of the stakeholders.
Lol. The youtubers who spend too much time on Twitter are coming out the woodworks to make a stink about things that do not matter. Oof in slow motion.
well shit me and 2 friends wanted to make a game they thought of doing it on unity but i already know how to code on godot well 1 of them wanted unity a lieast we haven't even started coding achally im the onely coder anyways and i was thinking of using godot to code it
will you show us what was said on the discord? because I've seen 4 videos by "anti-woke" people so far and nobody showed or commented on the whole discord discussion.
The codebase isnt affected by the comments of a community manager. This is just drama farming and if you are developing games on Godot, there are better things you could be spending time on.
i did fork godot and i do plan to build on top of it ................. maybe make my own version one day but i first need to learn C++ and i already start working on my games in godot xd i legit feel sabotage like big time over some dumb activist will redot be a batter alternative i don't know its not out yet . got to make everything political and even add set EDI agenda even in the software DNA .... i hate politics
I have decided to fork Godot 4.3 for my own proprietary needs, both in game dev and animation. Redot is an admirable effort, however it is currently outdated right now. Their engine has not been updated since 2017, only just recently getting changes now after this ordeal on X.
@@riufq I have recently found out they updated their engine recently. However it is not usuing 4.3 Stable, it is using 4.4 Dev. I decided to take a chance with it and recompiled my build.
@@riufq I don't think they are new. On GitHub, I have looked at their fork history in the past and the tags have older builds as early as 2017; mostly V2 downloads. Unless there something else I am missing, it appears more to me that they only recently updated their engine fork via the code (master only). The other branches are also V2 variants. I cannot find V4.3 anywhere however. All I've obtained is V4.4 Dev.
It's really funny to me. AFAIK godot simply responded aggressively to a harassment campaign. what's even funnier is, is that there's like 5 people going like "oh no!, godot is dying" whereas the rest of the world just moves on. literally all you'd need to is fork the engine.
wait hold up. there's nothing wrong with the engine, you're just upset over something a community manager said? get real lmao. you got so riled up over twitter that you edited a 12 minute video about discord drama. that's pretty fuckin sad, dude.
I care more about the missing type inference in the scripting. Also non-woke look kind of disoriented, they always react to things, but somehow cannot build anything.
7:45 Who in their right mind would be committed to using a bug ridden game engine for a major project, unless they'd already figured out methods to work around them? That would be horrible planning on a game developer's part.
Godot was marketed to Indie developers, most of them are working off and on in evenings or weekends to get their projects done. For a lot of these people they are working on passion projects sometimes for over a year and are not professional game developers. For those folks they don't have the experience to know how to look deeply into an engine to know ahead of time if some part of their idea is going to have issues down the line.
In general, if we all just work together, we can achieve miracles...but no we are just simple tribal monkeys, everything needs to be political these days+THE MESSAGE.sad
100% agree, I was learning the Godot engine, but switched after the drama. I don't need any drama to be honest. went to Unreal at the end of the day is the gold standard, if we going to put effort why not use and learn the best in the industry ?
Both sides of this argument look ridiculous, over emotional and childish. The majority of people don't care or even know about this. You can already make games with these engines... In their current state... Some bugs not being fixed in engine didnt effect the 1000s of games that came out last week, its not going to "effect indie games in the future because bugs are fixed slower". Not the greatest argument. Thats like how people "need the latest engine" No, you need LTS... Games are made everyday, there isn't anything actually stopping you except excuses.
I've noticed a lot of the times the issues anyone has with Godot as being viable for something like 3D tend to be people wanting to make ultra high definition "can see the pores of their pores" graphics. Very few engines right now can achieve that, and even the best have to have heavy modifications to achieve specific outputs. Meanwhile those of us that dabble with PS1/PS2 era are able to make fully functional tech demos with Godot in 3D and in many cases with better graphics than the PS2 era. It seems the ones that have their issues with Godot are not programmers, so they just want an engine that will do all the work for them, but without having to pay a licensing fee.
I don't care. I get great open source software that doesn't ask me for anything in return. I don't care about their views, I don't care about their politics. These are human things, people can be stupid. What is important are the tools. And godot is a great tool.
And what happens when a tool maker starts prioritising politics over their tools? No more tools for you to use. This is what people are concerned with. I've been using Godot for 4 years and the physics system is STILL absolute trash. As they admitted they are on the side of woke, the engine being in a state of disrepair makes a lot of sense.
@@user-og6hl6lv7p So why didn't you switch to unity oe ue and use it for 4 years? You did use it for 4 years and you know about it's shitty physics, but only now, then godot became woke, you like "it's over". 💁♂️
unity fired the people that fucked up godot fundation will probably give the green hair goblin a raise. Godot is too bugged to be even salvageable, nothing works on that crap, I will say, as someone that almost gave up on game dev because of this scam engine... this green hair goblin did a favor to many aspiring game devs that won't have to lose months now.
Still don't understand what exactly went wrong here. Was Xananax a moderator back when the discord was official? I could totally see that being an issue. Other than that, bigots be whining and that's the whole story as far as I can tell. The #Wokot tweet was poking fun at the ridiculous woke games list and a bunch if bigots got bent out of shape over it. How is this any different from a company switching to a rainbow logo during pride month? Is this seriously something you're upset about? Gay people existing isn't politics. Saying we don't want politics injected into out engine/project is a great way to rephrase "I don't like gay people; stop talking about/showing support for them through memes."
And there's the woke mind virus. "I think they're evil so it's fine if they are mistreated" this is the type of person who 100 years ago would casually talk about how colored are the criminal element, too midwit to see the obvious parallels though.
@@Cookies4Wookiees and that person is not a moderator official discord, and Godot made a public statement indicating that they weren’t associated and that they didn’t stand by that behavior. What should Godot have done in this scenario other than what they already have?
They poked fun, then blocked everyone who responded negatively from the official twitter account of Godot. THEN they started blocking people from github... I dunno exactly how but that's what they say.
This has nothing to do with gay people. What are you even talking about bro? People are upset because they want they want the developers to fix problems with the engine. They merely said "I'd rather you fix the problems rather than get involved with politics". For that sane and logical comment, they got banned by the Godot community managers and the CEO went on some cringe marxist rant claiming they were being relentlessly harassed all the while dropping the ban hammer on any member of the community who were even slightly curious. A person such as yourself would be banned for asking questions, even though you clearly support the woke agenda. So who is really over-reacting in this scenario? You're doing the typical progressive response by making it seem that people are over-reacting because they are afraid of gay people existing. This has nothing to do with gay people, and you know this, but you can't defend the actions of the community managers, so it's easier to just make it seem like the other side are irrational.
The first result after typing godot is "dont use godot" and its a short.unrelated to the drama about weird physics... I'll just bite the bullet with the olc engine but damn, what a way to go.
So you are going to tell people not to use a perfectly good engine because of a couple of unofficial 'woke' posts and they are the ones who are getting political? 😂
Well, considering that the founder himself said that putting some jokey "Apache Helicopter" as your gender deserves insta ban, it's safe to assume that the crazy CM isn't the only chronically-online political one. Also, they never apologised, they just dismissed the criticism as "harassment." So, it's valid to not contribute to a project given the totally unprofessional behaviour we've seen, politics is and *should* be outside of your job.
You're clearly only looking at the "free stuff" that's there now, and not at the dynamics that make that "free stuff" exist and grow or the small details that are needed to make that free stuff good (such as healthy feedback loops). Analogy: "The plant is already there and pretty, why do we care we poisoned the water and soil? it's clearly going to be as pretty next year as it is today" To explain: Its an open source project. Why contribute to a bunch of people that spread hate and racism and are clearly only intrested in creating some perfect echo chamber for themselves? This compromises the ability to talk in a community context (making it a project where you cant ask questions or discuss with others easily), make it awkward or impossible to contribute changes (because who knows, maybe you need to have pronouns in your bio to submit PRs next or after you do the work the maintainers "just dont like where you're from") and leaves the door open for potential power abuse later such as injection of "messaging" though leverage of the engine and leveraging of some victim nonsense like they did in their so called apology. I dont disagree that there's value in the engine but the higher chance of the entire engine becoming antagonistic is a big demerit and also raises concerns of overall support failling apart. Would you use a building that's falling down? Me neither. Same for others. Now consider how that affects relationships between people. How enthusiastic do you feel to empower people spreading hate and discrimination while wearing sheep's clothing and hiding behind previous positive messaging? Probably not a great feeling. So, funding, tutorials, news, coverage, conventions, etc, and even just basic "hei use godot, its good" just don't happen. Lower feedback is also directly correlated with lower quality in the engine. So sure it's a open source engine.... but with out people wanting to involve themselves with the people working on it all it will become is a buggy unusable mess after several years. If an engine is a complete mess would you use it or rather write your own? most people would rather write their own or move to an engine with problems thats not THAT. For open source projects, public image and good will is very important. Both for the people working on it and the people using it. It's what leads to adoption, which leads to more contributions, which leads to a better open source project. The complete reverse is also true.
it's weird how getting political encourages other people to get political too if only all the people you hate would just... let you crush them, I guess
I've been keeping a close eye on it, if their meeting this Friday is at a time I'm able to join I hope to listen to what they plan to do. Not having the Godot community fractured is the best result for everybody.
Any enterprise that have a DEI department. any lgbtqx+-*&^ personnel involved in any activity or collaboration with, any virtue signaling and PC activism agenda will never get a dime from me, like ever! I'll never buy their products, consume their "entertainment", finance their projects. Any sign from my currently preferred businesses that they will take the path of activism and NO SALE! FOREVER!
@@celdaemon Yeah, Petty, Like a game engine banning a bunch of devs who just gave feedback on the engine, And then offered a backhanded "apology" just to have the creator double down on the entire situation calling the devs they just banned the "usually Trump supporting haters"...... Oh wait....
You lost me at 4:26. Why does a 40 year old game developer gives a shit what the engine they are working with does from a PR standpoint? Its not their choice to pick the engine things are being written on. unless you are in a small startup. And in a small startup, you have a million different things to worry about than the "PR" of the engine you are using. Any choice done will "split" communities, as there is always someone who will be annoyed about it. I am extremely surprised that this was even "important" enough to make it in my youtube recommendations. Also at 6:40 you are explaining forking. I am so confused, who is this video for? As I still don't see what this changes, besides that a few souls leave the project. Also 7:30 - why the fearmongering? This is bizarre. Maybe I just have never met an engine issue SO bad that it has to be fixed by the creators of an engine. But even then, file a bug, create a workaround? At 8:15 - Can you tell me one issue that you experienced in programming for an engine that couldn't be solved with a workaround or a different solution which requires the engine developers to intervene? 8:23 - The tripple A market has been kinda bad? ??????! The Indie market has been carrying the games industry? Edit: Small update on this as on second read, it doesn't have enough information: I understand the notion that indie games can be fresh and awesome and show you things that you don't expect in other games. They can experiment more. But saying the AAA Market is bad is, a weird statement. Money wise they are doing fantastic, and people buy their products like hot bread. There are people that want that stuff, exactly like its served. And they want it every year. 8:30 All the indie games are now pushed off because GoDot ... made a statement like this? Well if such a small thing was able to destroy their project, then I feel like they build their project on shaky foundation. Also to end it with: "We have crazy ideology driving the industry" - What a very weird statement. And last but not least: You mentioned you will discuss how the third party discord, was not a third party discord. You never done that. So can you please explain to me why we care about what happens on a third party discord?
@@michelians1148 No clue, don't care. I criticized his video and work with the material he provided to me. - This video has the structure of a ragebait video. I would like him to show to me that this is not the case, and there is more substance behind it and that he just forgot to mention it in the video. Otherwise this is a very nuanced rage bait. But thank you, anonymised youtuber with no videos and just one year on the platform! I believe you are a real person!
They banned people from the open source git repo , ie removed their ability to contribute or even download Godot.. for not bowing down to the gae flag.. 🤯
1. The internet archive reveals that this "unofficial discord" was in fact the discord channel linked on their website up until very recently. 2. The mods were literally banning people for asking questions like "Why does a 40 year old game developer gives a shit what the engine they are working with does from a PR standpoint?"... They banned $100 per month subscribers for asking what was going on...
Just dont use public engines, guys. All good old games were made using in-house engines or build from scratch. And that is where true masterpieces come from
Yeah, blocking for criticism ... right, sure. First of all what's wrong about company company discussing social problems? Who defines who, where and what should or should not be discussed. No one blames companies when they state clear their position about war, or at least it doesn't trigger such a shitstorm. Why is it appropriate to write "instead of discussing woke, fix bugs" how is it even related? I think it only make sense to ban for such comments, they are obviously trying to trigger, they are not related to the topic. If you don't like it, just pass by, read something else, touch some grass. What's wrong about banning trolls? And now making people who write shit just to write shit victims. And forking an opensource project is not a new thing, good luck supporting it better than existing maintainers, especially when you did it in spite of something being written, and when it is not a rational decision
Accepting abuse is not a "rational decision" but it appears that way to you since you hate the abused party, that's all. What's wrong with discussing social problems is you can't define what they are. You probably think you have empathy, but it's only for your preferred groups of people. Of course you will end up dividing people with selective empathy. I know this is probably a waste of time to even say because you write like you've been mind***** by corporate mass media.
@@I-ONLY-BUILD-MECHS-AND-DUSTERS I honestly don't understand how could you made all these conclusions. There is a thing named "paradox of tolerance", you might want to read about it. I try not tolerate intolerance, therefore I don't feel sorry for people being banned for toxic replies to absolutely neutral post. It is not the same as I don't have an empathy. If something discriminatory ever happened to banned people, I would be on their side. But I don't see anything wrong in people being banned for toxic behavior. There are some things that people should be more aware of and that some organization is doing genuine efforts to raise awareness of it is very good thing. It is not negating their other efforts (for example improving engine and fixing bugs). And I also don't see any reason to make it personal and toxic like you did, you should have listened to yourself and not waste your time.
"Yeah, blocking for criticism ... right, sure. First of all what's wrong about company company discussing social problems?" Because MAYBE, Just MAYBE, They aren't/weren't focused on social problems..... MAYBE, They have a buggy game engine they have to work on. And instead they targeted devs over this.
Right now I'm working with Unreal Engine, but I think it would be a lot of fun to make a basic engine sometime in the future. Retro games are super great, and it's a huge challenge for developers. Not something that I recommend anybody jump right into, but it's not the end of the world if you are going for older style games. Just gotta get an idea and the motivation and there's plenty of developers out there that love to help solve problems you end up encountering.
Honestly, I think the people that wanted to leave Unity early on were a bit hastily irrational because for the most part the runtime fee didn't even affect them and now they are stuck in limbo. I actually saw this coming and have actually told people not to be so hasty but emotions is stronger than logic. 🤷
Godot is basically unity but with worse performance, game maker is better for 2d games and unity/ unreal are better for 3d games. Godot is worth using though as it’s free. If you want to make a game that does not require a large amount of performance use it.
Stupid people need first-hand experience to learn about making mistakes. Smart people can learn from watching the mistakes of others and spare themselves a lot of pain in the learning process. You don't want to commit your time and energy making a game on an engine constructed by stupid people.
It's weird seeing authoritative positions emerge from what is essentially a crowdsourced endeavor. I'm assuming the community manager was an appointed position, which implies someone already in an elevated position installed them there. Ideally, it should have at least been put to a vote; and at this point with all the feedback/pushback, some corrective measures should be taken. Not to get too political, but grass roots movements often fail when power vacuums get filled by people who put themselves before the collective; like BLM and Patrisse Cullors for example.
My understanding is that a key figure entered the development side that was hyper political, pushed out some apolitical folks, installed CM. CM pushed for a an official discord to exercise more control over the conversation. Started banning people left and right for objecting to the community being boiled like a frog with political messaging. Discord moderators in the new discord were largely the same as the old, so they were able to keep the messaging pretty consistent between the official and non-official discords. Seems like after 6 months of this they finally succumbed to their own echo chamber and couldn't handle the cacophony of condemnation across every social media avenue they had open.
I think it's a reflection on 1) how educated white collar individuals are truly getting indoctrinated into authoritarianism. That is, the chances are very high that no matter who they select an organization or corporation is hiring a closet authoritarian. We are essentially creating a whole generation of tyrants.
Godot selfdestructing JUST after unity rolled back the runtime fee - let me get my tinfoil.
actually makes sense.
😂
yes
the thing is, the Godot's creator himself also seems to approve this whole sh!tshow in the first place. it's apparent now that this whole organization is literally just a bunch of same kind of people echoing their own same opinion to one another. huge red flag. and also psychopathic af.
Hmm 🤔 but it's been predicted since over a Year ago that their are issues with the founder
I still don't understand how this profile of individual always ends up in charge of PR jobs.
Virtue signaling. Godot/$ANY_CORP leadership think they're righting the wrongs of society by giving marginalized individuals that have been abused by society, public facing jobs.
it's intentional. literally required for companies that rely on credit ratings and financing. ESG/DEI nonsense.
For the same reason why Kamala Harris is running for president: Diversity hire!
To be frank, 1) because it's usually women in PR. In general, women prefer jobs that deal with social interaction as opposed to building things, that's why very few men get into that sort of occupation. 2) Women generally are more emotional and short term focused. They will go off the rails easier than men without thinking of the long term consequences. 3) Women generally get away with breaking their toys through most of their lives due to societal norms. Thus they will do this until it's a significant disaster for all those around them.
In other words, the "talent" pool they are selecting from has a very high proportion of unstable individuals and out of desperation, they will just pick a warm body to fill the role .
@@xExekut3xit is like relying on lead jacket while trying to stay on top of the water. Better to drown the jacket and swim freely than just go to the bottom with it happy you wear something that should protect you.
What are you gonna do with all the credits, little money and nice words when your company doesn't exist anymore? Get rid of those lunatics asap and you won't lose any of your clients. And if you lose any crazy backers? So? They are not your clients. They won't provide you with constants cash inflow. People right now are deaf for any woke screech. The louder the woke screeches the better the product is. So they can try to cancel everything. It is the free ad for any product.
Those companies are insane right now. Just jumping out of cliff every single one and blaming clients for everything. But in the end. We don't need them. They need us. So whatever. People stopped caring couple of years ago. We are actually cheering for every single bankruptcy.
Pure insanity the Godot situation.
They got such a boost after the horrible Unity strategy last year and they just threw their chance for what?
Letting one insane person to do whatever it wants to without any consequence?
How are these corporations just putting their head into sand and wishing the issue will go away I will never understand.
Well unity is trying to improve, so now Godot is like: "hold my beer" 😂
Because western cultures loved toxic woke ideology for the last decade for some reason. Now it is slowly imploding because the hatred is hurting everyone.
@B3anBag98
Hold my bud light... Sadly the CEO is 100% on the side of the CM..
Mentality I'll people running rampant with degrees and financing from entites that think it's their job to fix the world.
@@joshb8215 The Tech industry itself is infected. Same with all those consultancy companies giving bad advice to all the gaming companies. These businesses aren't exactly victim here.
4:30 It's interesting that when you see most software engineer don't care about this, your explanation is "they don't like it, but they're afraid of the DEI boogieman coming after them, so they stay quiet", rather than "they're just interested in the code, not the twitter drama, and the code is open source and not effected at all."
This "crisis" has been met with a vast wave of utter disinterest by the vast majority of software engineers, because it's just nonsense twitter drama that will be gone in no time. Trying to reframe disinterest as "scared into silence by the DEI" is kinda sad really.
"Just ignore it" why don't you just ignore the video? Why don't you just ignore the people pushing back against abuse? Because you likely agree with what's being done, and cowardice is the only issue.
@@I-ONLY-BUILD-MECHS-AND-DUSTERS Why ignore the video, when the uploader claims that the engine has self-destructed and also claims they're going to look at it from an engineer's perspective, yet the entire video is just fake culture-war talking points that exist exclusively online. There's nothing about how the engine's tools and functions have become worse. There's not a single statement an actual engineer with a real bachelor's or master's would utter. This person just doesn't exist on a day-to-day basis out in the real life.
A brief glance at the comment section provides a very clear view of who's actually industry people, software engineers, programmers and otherwise university educated people, because they are questioning the validity, the inconsistencies and providing actual explanations backed up by evidence.
And then there's the brain-rotted culture-warriors who are just getting angry online today, like they did yesterday and like what they're going to do tomorrow as well.
@@I-ONLY-BUILD-MECHS-AND-DUSTERS At no point did I tell anyone to ignore anything... are you hallucinating?
How can anyone consider this a comparable misstep to the no holds barred cash sucking changes that Unity made to their platform?
So I don't want to get in an argument here and Unity did mess up bad last year but they completely reverted on their changes. This includes the CEO, some of the board, etc... They seemed to have steered the ship in a new direction. Don't know what the future holds, and I hope they've learned from that mistake, but I'm staying on the engine for that reason. Let's hope Godot finds a way to come back from this.
@@HotDumpsterCrab It isn’t. It’s only comparable if you’re afraid of gay people. Only a bigot would view this as a game engine “getting political.” The blocking people was a lil weird but they made statements and an effort to undo it afterwards. Not at all comparable to screwing devs over
@@bodardr The more fundamental problem is that even though Unity reverted the changes, they've already shown that they have the power and the willingness to implement the changes in the first place. With Godot, even if they wanted to do something like that, they couldn't, since the engine is under the MIT license. So I'd rather use a product with an idiotic but powerless team than one with a smart but power-hungry team.
the thing is godot situation way way worse than unity, you may ask why? the answer is simple:
1) unity situation can be explained with logic - its simple greed, which is understandable, predictable thing which has place in business
2) godot situation can not be explained logically at all, bcs in its core it caused by ideological zealotry which has no place in business
@@MEMUNDOLOL 1. No, the Godot situation is not nearly as bad because, once again, the people behind the social media account have no control over what people can and can't do with the Godot engine, unlike Unity. The severity of a situation is not determined by the amount of logical sense it makes.
2. I can explain the Godot situation quite simply with logic: The social media manager is power-hungry. They are using ideology as an excuse to seize power and keep it by calling anyone who stands up to them bigots. In reality, most people who hold their type of ideology don't actually believe in it, they just use it to gain power by cry-bullying people into submission.
what do worldviews have to do with programming 3d engines anyway? the only politics that should be involved should be the decisions of the programmers in getting features in the game engine itself.
The answer is nothing at all, it's just that people with borderline zero substance, knowledge, passion and actual experience seem to love to force their views onto others
in other words - Twitter is Twitter, and Twitter is bad
Sadly adding diversity quotas mean that this problem permeates everything. You see it even in Python.
@@eventhorizon853 in reailty, code written by humans looks like code written by humans regardless of color or creed.
@@bgone5520 yes, but creating problems like this (such as kicking out contributors for wrongthink) only happens due to one specific creed.
Fr their only job is to develop, collect their money and shut up.
Oh god I am so tired of youtube farming "engine drama." Please, I know it gives lots of views but the controversies are getting phonier and phonier just to keep those views coming. This stuff doesn't matter to anybody actually doing something and not just browsing twitter all day long.
And clickbait title. Godot is d*ad.
I assume you didn't watch this particular video before making this comment.
I watched every drama milker about this 2 weeks ago yet you still gave me new insight into this, wp
I recently started using godot (before all this happened) and was pretty ok with the engine. Now im afraid that i will have to migrate to another platform. This makes me sad and angry because i will have more work now.
I was only in one year on Godot for my own game. Doing it myself now, takes longer but probably a good learning experience. Keeping tabs on Redot though.
Seems overblown - do people have so few problems in their lives that this is somehow a topic?
Yeah, who cares? Clicked on this video thinking they were going closed source or something.
I just started using Godot engine today and was so confused on the review bombing on Steam... I had no idea wtf was going on. It seems way overblown on both ends and I feel like most the people who are outraged about wokeness don't even do real development. My main concern as a dev clicking this vid would have been them going closed source and removed their MIT license.
Oh yeah and for context I don't use Twitter/X so I was really lost at first.
Amen!
I think it would be a big deal for people who are game devs as those are most of the people who got blocked initially, including people who donating monthly to support the development of the engine.
If they don't remove the 'MIT license' not a single true developer will care, literally its the only good thing on the engine, its a 'baby' engine, its not full of features but it work, its fully customizable if you need (you have full access to the source code to modify if you need) and the only "fee" is to put the license in a txt on the main game folder and the made in godot line.
They can shove a tease on their lower half all day if they want, no one truly care about it,
it just the media who want the "be the first to cover the news" that want to win the easy to farm "woke is bad"
99% just want to fool around and see people argue for fun, it the new "shock video / viral easy click bait" form
𝐘𝐞𝐚𝐡...
𝐢 𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐥𝐥𝐲 𝐦𝐢𝐬𝐬 𝐰𝐡𝐞𝐧 𝐩𝐞𝐨𝐩𝐥𝐞 𝐨𝐧𝐥𝐲 𝐜𝐚𝐫𝐞𝐝 𝐚𝐛𝐨𝐮𝐭 𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐟𝐮𝐧
𝐀𝐥𝐥 𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐬 𝐬𝐭𝐮𝐟𝐟 𝐦𝐚𝐤𝐞𝐬 𝐦𝐞 𝐬𝐢𝐜𝐤
❤Thank you for speaking common sense.
BASED
The Godot situation is bad, but nowhere near as bad as the Unity situation was. A few idiots throwing a tantrum on what is supposed to be a company account is bad, but they can't stop people from using or modifying the engine however and whenever they want. And even if they tried to use something like the terms of service to restrict the users of the engine, the Godot source code is under the MIT license, so anyone could just get the code and modify/use it how they please.
In fact, since Godot is open source, you don't even have to stop using the engine in order to stop supporting the Godot foundation, if that's what you want to do. Just don't donate to the foundation.
The Unity situation was MUCH worse because they were essentially trying to rug-pull developers into a bad deal that they would've had to accept since Unity users are essentially at the whim of the terms of service.
The Unity runtime fee was introduced before this channel was started, but it was a seismic shift for games. Every major developer that used Unity basically flamed their Unity reps to the point that they had to fire their CEO and oust everybody that pushed for it.
For a big open source project like Godot the only reason it's been able to get as far as it has is because everybody comes together to contribute to it. If your idea doesn't need anything super special you can use whatever Godot version that strikes your fancy, but if a lot of contributors stop contributing the project will stagnate over time.
With Unity cancelling the runtime fee it's hard to recommend people go with Godot if it's going to be fractured and push away contributors with overbearing politics.
@@OujirouYT I generally agree, except on a few points:
1. In terms of overbearing politics, as far as we know, the controversial X and Discord behavior came from a few bad actors from the community management team who went rogue, and may not accurately represent the majority opinion of the Godot team. If so, they certainly have a hiring issue, but the controversial behavior will likely be apologized for and not repeated. Otherwise, we will likely see several forks pop up to represent the different opinions that people have on this issue. In this case if you don't like the Godot foundation, you could either find or make a fork that supports your philosophy. We already see this happening with Redot.
2. When you say contributors, I'm unsure if you're talking about financial supporters or programmers, so I'll just comment on both scenarios. If you're talking about financial supporters, I do agree that if Godot doesn't apologize, a chunk of supporters will likely stop funding the main fork of Godot. But I also think that if someone is passionate enough about game engines to support them financially, they would likely switch to supporting one of the other forks. So the money would ultimately go to a better team working on the same project. Same with the programmers, as we once again see with the Redot fork.
3. Yes, this means the community would be split, but that doesn't necessarily mean that progress on the project would stagnate. If anything, it means we'll see tons of different Godot-based engines tailored and specified to tons of different genres and workflows. It does mean that Godot won't ever be able to compete with enterprise level software like Unity and Unreal, but that was never the goal for Godot.
4. Even with everything else considered, there are still plenty of reasons to use Godot over Unity: It is open source, so you can know exactly what it does and modify it, Games made in it are generally better on performance, the engine itself is tiny and has amazing performance, it has better linux support, and there is no requirement to upgrade your plan after certain purchase thresholds. Most importantly, even though Unity has removed the runtime fee, they have already shown that they have the power and willingness to try it, so the consumer is still vulnerable to whatever Unity decides to put in their TOS. Since Godot is open source and under the MIT license, it is pretty much impossible for them to do anything like what Unity did.
Right now the only real contender to Godot is Redot which I think is a good sign. Having two entries instead of 10 is way better for the community at large.
As long as the indie devs that are using the engine are taken care of that's the most important thing to me. It takes a lot of time, energy, and passion to spend your extra time to try and make a game, I would hate to see any of that wasted because of bad actors in Godot splitting the community up.
As for Godot over Unity I would argue if a developer wanted to move from working on a small Indie project into a bigger game studio they would better serve that career path by choosing Unity. Most shops using publicly available engines are using either Unity or Unreal, but that's up to the individual developer to decide on where they want to focus their skills for the future. Though even then, I concede that if you willing to learn then switching engines isn't super hard if a company is willing to teach you the ropes.
@@OujirouYT I agree with you there. The goal should be for developers to be able to make their games unharrassed and with reliable tools. That's kinda the reason I've been so defensive of Godot. I've been making a passion project in it for awhile, and the engine itself is perfect for what I'm doing. It's a shame to see the community managers tarnishing the engine's reputation. Anyway, thanks for engaging with me. I hope your channel does well!
You're right, It isn't as bad as the Unity situation, It's worse.
Hopefully Redot will gain traction, that way devs can easily migrate over to the fork
me too i really hope it works
i only hope that redot won't be a scam at worse
considering that groms in involved in this dumb drama.
@@chaosmachines934 Here's how to tell the difference between a scam and something genuine. A scam wants money for very poor effort and latter offers either nothing or misses what it promised on. Without money it can't be a scam, Because you're not out anything. Redot hasn't been asking for money. And the creator has said that he's not going to be until the engine is released.
well turns out godot its a cult first a game engine second
The Only political view I think Godot should promote is perhaps Open Source. But even this is is borderline. But it should certainly not get involved in who people choose to sleep with. Or how they identify. It is a Game Engine. I been a Gold Supporter since 2021. First on Pateron and then on Godot Foundation Dev Fund. But I just canceled it. Until they get their shit together I'm staying away from funding them.
i think, there's definetenly overreaction on every side. Saying woke, is putting politics in videogame engine. Is a bit much. The original tweet's biggest crime imo was being extremely cringe.
when they started blocking everyone that was the real offense
agreed
So you will be using a tool to make a living that is being developed not by professionals but by a random "filling the quota people"? Is this what you are saying? Engineers are people that think ahead. This tweet alone is enough information for them to understand what are the priorities of the GoDot as a game engine. What will it be in 2 years? Will it be a better game engine with less bugs and more feature or a social mess with more flags/pronouns/politics? Choosing a tool like a game engine is not like buying a candy. It's a long-term investment with no option to go back.
P.S. Some people are paying for that. Is saying that you're not getting what you're paying for an overreaction?
@@Skorpyotnt Exactly, it's a bad sign that such a petty nonsensical person is allowed to be CM and silence whoever they want.
If it wasn't for the blocking I would just scroll and roll
People are tired of people screwing around, and bullying everyone. It's not an overreaction, it's a reaction to a lot of things at a person who's symbolic for a terrible trend in society.
honestly imo the community managers of godot have nothing to do with the actual engine itself, i don't personally think this should be such a big deal as it is rn. we should look at the engine instead of the nonsense that the community managers are doings.
Don't know man, I dropped godot after the previous clownfest drama that definetly affected the engine. I was honestly surprised how it gained popularity through the last year. But it seems we should credit Unity for that.
"honestly imo" Jesus grow a spine instead of starting your idea with a bunch of weasel words. That's a clearly insane person deciding who gets to speak or not in the public square and you just want to bend over and take it when you don't have to. Well, if you'll just take terrible treatment from them, you will probably take it from anyone, including me and anyone who disagrees, so there is no reason to listen to such advice.
The community manager probably doesn't deal with the engine at all, probably doesn't know coding tbh. But that does not mean it doesn't affect the engine. For example, one notable donator pulled out, a few contributors to the engine were blocked on GitHub, and maybe more people stopped donating. How does this affect the engine? Not a clue, but it doesn't look too good.
Apparently the creation of this toxic community had already put off some of the people that were actually developing the engine. So nah, this is a big deal.
@@I-ONLY-BUILD-MECHS-AND-DUSTERS How is using an open source engine that community managers have no power over and doesn't benefit those managers at all "bending over and take it when you don't have to"? Just don't donate to the foundation and you're good. You don't even have to stop using the engine because, unlike Unity, using the Godot engine does not benefit the Godot foundation at all.
Honestly, this whole "woke" drama around Godot started from a simple tweet, and while it blew up, it’s really not that deep. These kinds of controversies pop up in online communities all the time and usually fade away when people get back to focusing on the important stuff.
Some people are saying Godot might’ve lost contributors over this, but let’s be real: most devs either don’t care or actually support the message Godot was putting out.
And forking the engine in protest? We’ve seen this before, and most forks based on political disagreements end up going nowhere because they can’t keep up with development.
Now, I don’t agree with how they handled the controversy by user blocking-it’s a bad look for sure from a PR perspective, and for the project. But do I think they were wrong for posting the tweet? Not at all. It wasn’t harmful, and honestly, the tweet aligns with what a lot of us devs and users think.
If someone’s that upset and decides to stop supporting the project because of a tweet like that, I think the community will be just fine without them.
With politically correct fanbase like this 41% of them are a risk group.
"actually support the message Godot was putting out."
Assuming that you are referring to that initial tweet that started this controversy, it really didn't look like a 'message' to me, tbh, and even if it was, then they're telling their supporters it's totally fine to be "woke".
Like, okay, but why, though? Genuine question.
"It wasn’t harmful, and honestly, the tweet aligns with what a lot of us devs and users think."
From the amount of people I've seen that uses Godot responding to the controversy, yeah, I'd say that a good portion of them thinks otherwise.
"If someone’s that upset and decides to stop supporting the project because of a tweet like that, I think the community will be just fine without them."
Does this applies to the very people that the Godot Foundation CLEARLY is pandering to?
In this case, the LGBT community.
@@Milan____I don't even have a twitter account and I know about it! People said nobody would care that SBI worked on games and then all games they so much as touch are immediately boycotted! Gamers DO care and since it's gamers that are the customer base for games development, this will end Godot!
Bring politics into any gaming circle and it's game over for you! We've seen this over and over and over and anyone who thinks it won't happen to them is an idiot!
Nononono, That is not why it blew up. They were banning devs for simply stating to "focus on the engine rather than politics". THAT is why it blew up.
An open source engine destroys itself? If the current people behind the engine mess up, others will come, that's exactly the advantage of an open source engine with a MIT license. It's like Linux. If someone screws up, Linux won't go under. And comparing Godot to unity is pretty limited. They are two completely different approaches. That's why I just say, drama drama drama.
That frankly would be the best outcome from this.. Someone making a fork of Godot and actually making it better and improving it.
As a senior software dev, it ain't that simple. The problem is 100 people fork a failing project and every single one thinks THEY should be the new owner of the project going forward. And the audience divides themselves among the 100. Which translates to no individual project getting the attention and support it needs to continue on.
Forking an open source project is like going off a ramp in a car and hoping there's another ramp on the other side to land on without crashing. It's a gamble. You hope one of the forks will be obviously better/more official than the others. Concentrating all the attention and developer resources on just one fork and the project can continue. But that doesn't always work. And even when it does, it can take years for the main fork to emerge.
@@onslaught147 so far only one fork has came forward and that is a fork named Redot Engine with an increasing amount of people working on it.
we'll just have to see what time gives us, personally i'll still use godot cuz i think it's a great free open source project, all tho it won't get as much support as it used to i think the current tools that are provided are enough for me
@@onslaught147 that's kind of a misrepresentation of the problem.
the problem isn't that audiences are divided, I mean it's not hard to share code, look at the BSDs and all the linux distros with their own versions of software
the problem is forking is easy, project management is hard, and most open source projects have very few actual devs, so most forks will fail
but it's not like it's an RNG thing, it's just a matter of: do the people forking it actually have the time and energy to commit to manage it, and will the devs still be willing to work on it?
I work for a very conservative, Christian owned company. The entire company just had to have training which smelled suspiciously like DEI. Our company has been working with the government lately. You do the math and you can see where it's coming from. If you want that state sponsored money, and that is a BIG pool, you have to bend to their will. I'm in the sunk cost fallacy crowd - I spent a good part of the past two decades trying to learn Unity (and relearning several times as they changed, replaced, or removed core functionality), and I really wasn't in the mindset to learn a new engine. Godot is a good engine for beginners for sure, but if you work for a triple A you most likely will be using Unreal and maybe Unity, so there is that too. I did my time already and now I just write games for the fun and challenge. I'm done with super crunches that last 6 months only to deliver a buggy product because the producers insist on having something in front of the stakeholders.
Of course tools are political. Heard about hammer and sickle?
(/s)
You got me there.
I will use Unity after this
Lol. The youtubers who spend too much time on Twitter are coming out the woodworks to make a stink about things that do not matter. Oof in slow motion.
well shit me and 2 friends wanted to make a game they thought of doing it on unity but i already know how to code on godot well 1 of them wanted unity a lieast we haven't even started coding achally im the onely coder anyways and i was thinking of using godot to code it
A lot of noise for little. So many bigger problems to solve... I'm glad I left Twitter...
will you show us what was said on the discord? because I've seen 4 videos by "anti-woke" people so far and nobody showed or commented on the whole discord discussion.
Moved to Reddot
The codebase isnt affected by the comments of a community manager. This is just drama farming and if you are developing games on Godot, there are better things you could be spending time on.
Deilulus are maliciously destroying the whole gaming industry
Sad!
i did fork godot and i do plan to build on top of it .................
maybe make my own version one day
but i first need to learn C++
and i already start working on my games in godot xd
i legit feel sabotage like big time
over some dumb activist
will redot be a batter alternative i don't know its not out yet .
got to make everything political and even add set EDI agenda even in the software DNA ....
i hate politics
Conquest's Second Law strikes again.
I have decided to fork Godot 4.3 for my own proprietary needs, both in game dev and animation. Redot is an admirable effort, however it is currently outdated right now. Their engine has not been updated since 2017, only just recently getting changes now after this ordeal on X.
2017?
You know they're using 4.3 right?
Or am i missing something here?
@@riufq I have recently found out they updated their engine recently. However it is not usuing 4.3 Stable, it is using 4.4 Dev. I decided to take a chance with it and recompiled my build.
@@OnyeNacho but where do you get the news. That they're using 2017 engine?
Redot is a new fork. I'm confused
@@riufq I don't think they are new. On GitHub, I have looked at their fork history in the past and the tags have older builds as early as 2017; mostly V2 downloads. Unless there something else I am missing, it appears more to me that they only recently updated their engine fork via the code (master only). The other branches are also V2 variants. I cannot find V4.3 anywhere however. All I've obtained is V4.4 Dev.
@@riufq UPDATE: I just found they finally made the 4.3 branch for me to clone from. Finally! I will just recompile again.
another good thing ruined by messengers ;(
It's really funny to me.
AFAIK godot simply responded aggressively to a harassment campaign.
what's even funnier is, is that there's like 5 people going like "oh no!, godot is dying"
whereas the rest of the world just moves on.
literally all you'd need to is fork the engine.
Xananax went off the rails huh! Such a power trip. Wild times.
They were supposed to be the heroes.... but they were the villains.
wait hold up. there's nothing wrong with the engine, you're just upset over something a community manager said? get real lmao. you got so riled up over twitter that you edited a 12 minute video about discord drama. that's pretty fuckin sad, dude.
How do you imagine sh*ting on supporters and staying afloat?
@@useroffice80 honestly, you should cry about it more instead of spending your time doing something productive
Burning down their own house is an understatement. They burned down their entire settlement.
So sad, such nice replacement of Unity can fail in future due communication failure.
It seems like a DOA fork, the guy forking have no relevant development experience or was a core contributor .
I don't expect much to change
Sad to hear, but nice to hear someone speak out about it.
Good job, man.
How would, and why would a open software project have a dei department, was this project accepting ESG money?
Would make sense. Follow the money.
I care more about the missing type inference in the scripting. Also non-woke look kind of disoriented, they always react to things, but somehow cannot build anything.
Stop being so politically bigoted. Space Marines II was non-woke and everyone loves that game. Same with Black Myth Wukong.
As they should. We should never tolerate intolerance.
7:45 Who in their right mind would be committed to using a bug ridden game engine for a major project, unless they'd already figured out methods to work around them? That would be horrible planning on a game developer's part.
Godot was marketed to Indie developers, most of them are working off and on in evenings or weekends to get their projects done. For a lot of these people they are working on passion projects sometimes for over a year and are not professional game developers.
For those folks they don't have the experience to know how to look deeply into an engine to know ahead of time if some part of their idea is going to have issues down the line.
Fun Fact: Sonic Colors was made using Godot
because it's easy and im going to use it
Clickbait
In general, if we all just work together, we can achieve miracles...but no we are just simple tribal monkeys, everything needs to be political these days+THE MESSAGE.sad
He really overestimates how many nazis there are in game development.
single tweet ruined all developers future revenue it must be millions of $
100% agree, I was learning the Godot engine, but switched after the drama. I don't need any drama to be honest. went to Unreal at the end of the day is the gold standard, if we going to put effort why not use and learn the best in the industry ?
Still No idea what politics in my game engine does ……
Both sides of this argument look ridiculous, over emotional and childish. The majority of people don't care or even know about this. You can already make games with these engines... In their current state... Some bugs not being fixed in engine didnt effect the 1000s of games that came out last week, its not going to "effect indie games in the future because bugs are fixed slower". Not the greatest argument. Thats like how people "need the latest engine" No, you need LTS... Games are made everyday, there isn't anything actually stopping you except excuses.
I've noticed a lot of the times the issues anyone has with Godot as being viable for something like 3D tend to be people wanting to make ultra high definition "can see the pores of their pores" graphics. Very few engines right now can achieve that, and even the best have to have heavy modifications to achieve specific outputs. Meanwhile those of us that dabble with PS1/PS2 era are able to make fully functional tech demos with Godot in 3D and in many cases with better graphics than the PS2 era. It seems the ones that have their issues with Godot are not programmers, so they just want an engine that will do all the work for them, but without having to pay a licensing fee.
I don't care. I get great open source software that doesn't ask me for anything in return. I don't care about their views, I don't care about their politics. These are human things, people can be stupid. What is important are the tools. And godot is a great tool.
Then you don't know how anything works.
And what happens when a tool maker starts prioritising politics over their tools? No more tools for you to use. This is what people are concerned with. I've been using Godot for 4 years and the physics system is STILL absolute trash. As they admitted they are on the side of woke, the engine being in a state of disrepair makes a lot of sense.
@@nono-yw3tv Maybe, but still...it is what it is. Godot is nice.
@@user-og6hl6lv7p So why didn't you switch to unity oe ue and use it for 4 years? You did use it for 4 years and you know about it's shitty physics, but only now, then godot became woke, you like "it's over". 💁♂️
unity fired the people that fucked up
godot fundation will probably give the green hair goblin a raise.
Godot is too bugged to be even salvageable, nothing works on that crap, I will say, as someone that almost gave up on game dev because of this scam engine... this green hair goblin did a favor to many aspiring game devs that won't have to lose months now.
Still don't understand what exactly went wrong here. Was Xananax a moderator back when the discord was official? I could totally see that being an issue. Other than that, bigots be whining and that's the whole story as far as I can tell. The #Wokot tweet was poking fun at the ridiculous woke games list and a bunch if bigots got bent out of shape over it. How is this any different from a company switching to a rainbow logo during pride month? Is this seriously something you're upset about? Gay people existing isn't politics. Saying we don't want politics injected into out engine/project is a great way to rephrase "I don't like gay people; stop talking about/showing support for them through memes."
Doesn't matter a person's behavior is everything.
And there's the woke mind virus. "I think they're evil so it's fine if they are mistreated" this is the type of person who 100 years ago would casually talk about how colored are the criminal element, too midwit to see the obvious parallels though.
@@Cookies4Wookiees and that person is not a moderator official discord, and Godot made a public statement indicating that they weren’t associated and that they didn’t stand by that behavior. What should Godot have done in this scenario other than what they already have?
They poked fun, then blocked everyone who responded negatively from the official twitter account of Godot. THEN they started blocking people from github... I dunno exactly how but that's what they say.
This has nothing to do with gay people. What are you even talking about bro? People are upset because they want they want the developers to fix problems with the engine. They merely said "I'd rather you fix the problems rather than get involved with politics". For that sane and logical comment, they got banned by the Godot community managers and the CEO went on some cringe marxist rant claiming they were being relentlessly harassed all the while dropping the ban hammer on any member of the community who were even slightly curious. A person such as yourself would be banned for asking questions, even though you clearly support the woke agenda. So who is really over-reacting in this scenario?
You're doing the typical progressive response by making it seem that people are over-reacting because they are afraid of gay people existing. This has nothing to do with gay people, and you know this, but you can't defend the actions of the community managers, so it's easier to just make it seem like the other side are irrational.
The first result after typing godot is "dont use godot" and its a short.unrelated to the drama about weird physics... I'll just bite the bullet with the olc engine but damn, what a way to go.
So you are going to tell people not to use a perfectly good engine because of a couple of unofficial 'woke' posts and they are the ones who are getting political? 😂
Well, considering that the founder himself said that putting some jokey "Apache Helicopter" as your gender deserves insta ban, it's safe to assume that the crazy CM isn't the only chronically-online political one.
Also, they never apologised, they just dismissed the criticism as "harassment."
So, it's valid to not contribute to a project given the totally unprofessional behaviour we've seen, politics is and *should* be outside of your job.
You're clearly only looking at the "free stuff" that's there now, and not at the dynamics that make that "free stuff" exist and grow or the small details that are needed to make that free stuff good (such as healthy feedback loops).
Analogy: "The plant is already there and pretty, why do we care we poisoned the water and soil? it's clearly going to be as pretty next year as it is today"
To explain:
Its an open source project. Why contribute to a bunch of people that spread hate and racism and are clearly only intrested in creating some perfect echo chamber for themselves? This compromises the ability to talk in a community context (making it a project where you cant ask questions or discuss with others easily), make it awkward or impossible to contribute changes (because who knows, maybe you need to have pronouns in your bio to submit PRs next or after you do the work the maintainers "just dont like where you're from") and leaves the door open for potential power abuse later such as injection of "messaging" though leverage of the engine and leveraging of some victim nonsense like they did in their so called apology.
I dont disagree that there's value in the engine but the higher chance of the entire engine becoming antagonistic is a big demerit and also raises concerns of overall support failling apart. Would you use a building that's falling down? Me neither. Same for others. Now consider how that affects relationships between people. How enthusiastic do you feel to empower people spreading hate and discrimination while wearing sheep's clothing and hiding behind previous positive messaging? Probably not a great feeling. So, funding, tutorials, news, coverage, conventions, etc, and even just basic "hei use godot, its good" just don't happen.
Lower feedback is also directly correlated with lower quality in the engine. So sure it's a open source engine.... but with out people wanting to involve themselves with the people working on it all it will become is a buggy unusable mess after several years. If an engine is a complete mess would you use it or rather write your own? most people would rather write their own or move to an engine with problems thats not THAT.
For open source projects, public image and good will is very important. Both for the people working on it and the people using it. It's what leads to adoption, which leads to more contributions, which leads to a better open source project. The complete reverse is also true.
it's weird how getting political encourages other people to get political too
if only all the people you hate would just... let you crush them, I guess
Godot is dead, long live redot
I've been keeping a close eye on it, if their meeting this Friday is at a time I'm able to join I hope to listen to what they plan to do. Not having the Godot community fractured is the best result for everybody.
This is just the seed that began to grow. Things will get worse once it starts really going out of control.
Any enterprise that have a DEI department. any lgbtqx+-*&^ personnel involved in any activity or collaboration with, any virtue signaling and PC activism agenda will never get a dime from me, like ever! I'll never buy their products, consume their "entertainment", finance their projects. Any sign from my currently preferred businesses that they will take the path of activism and NO SALE! FOREVER!
Lmao imagine being this petty
@@celdaemon Yeah coming from an obvious armchair activist, you don't have to imagine.
@@celdaemon If you were born 100 years ago you would snitch on j**s hiding under the floors.
/spit
@@celdaemon Yeah, Petty, Like a game engine banning a bunch of devs who just gave feedback on the engine, And then offered a backhanded "apology" just to have the creator double down on the entire situation calling the devs they just banned the "usually Trump supporting haters"...... Oh wait....
Godot is not very good because -Z is forward in Godot. Who decided that?
You lost me at 4:26. Why does a 40 year old game developer gives a shit what the engine they are working with does from a PR standpoint?
Its not their choice to pick the engine things are being written on. unless you are in a small startup. And in a small startup, you have a million different things to worry about than the "PR" of the engine you are using.
Any choice done will "split" communities, as there is always someone who will be annoyed about it. I am extremely surprised that this was even "important" enough to make it in my youtube recommendations.
Also at 6:40 you are explaining forking. I am so confused, who is this video for? As I still don't see what this changes, besides that a few souls leave the project.
Also 7:30 - why the fearmongering? This is bizarre. Maybe I just have never met an engine issue SO bad that it has to be fixed by the creators of an engine. But even then, file a bug, create a workaround?
At 8:15 - Can you tell me one issue that you experienced in programming for an engine that couldn't be solved with a workaround or a different solution which requires the engine developers to intervene?
8:23 - The tripple A market has been kinda bad? ??????! The Indie market has been carrying the games industry?
Edit: Small update on this as on second read, it doesn't have enough information:
I understand the notion that indie games can be fresh and awesome and show you things that you don't expect in other games. They can experiment more. But saying the AAA Market is bad is, a weird statement. Money wise they are doing fantastic, and people buy their products like hot bread. There are people that want that stuff, exactly like its served. And they want it every year.
8:30 All the indie games are now pushed off because GoDot ... made a statement like this? Well if such a small thing was able to destroy their project, then I feel like they build their project on shaky foundation.
Also to end it with:
"We have crazy ideology driving the industry" - What a very weird statement.
And last but not least: You mentioned you will discuss how the third party discord, was not a third party discord. You never done that.
So can you please explain to me why we care about what happens on a third party discord?
Have you seen how extreme some of the comments made by the Godot people were?
@@michelians1148 No clue, don't care. I criticized his video and work with the material he provided to me. - This video has the structure of a ragebait video. I would like him to show to me that this is not the case, and there is more substance behind it and that he just forgot to mention it in the video. Otherwise this is a very nuanced rage bait.
But thank you, anonymised youtuber with no videos and just one year on the platform! I believe you are a real person!
@@Xerdies Your reply is not believable. I think you are engaged in damage control.
They banned people from the open source git repo , ie removed their ability to contribute or even download Godot.. for not bowing down to the gae flag.. 🤯
1. The internet archive reveals that this "unofficial discord" was in fact the discord channel linked on their website up until very recently.
2. The mods were literally banning people for asking questions like "Why does a 40 year old game developer gives a shit what the engine they are working with does from a PR standpoint?"...
They banned $100 per month subscribers for asking what was going on...
Lmao keep crying
Just dont use public engines, guys. All good old games were made using in-house engines or build from scratch. And that is where true masterpieces come from
You should check out lit engine and raylib. pretty good stuff over there.
They have gained in the short term. Sadly. I’m either going to ReDot or unity.
Yeah, blocking for criticism ... right, sure. First of all what's wrong about company company discussing social problems? Who defines who, where and what should or should not be discussed. No one blames companies when they state clear their position about war, or at least it doesn't trigger such a shitstorm. Why is it appropriate to write "instead of discussing woke, fix bugs" how is it even related? I think it only make sense to ban for such comments, they are obviously trying to trigger, they are not related to the topic. If you don't like it, just pass by, read something else, touch some grass. What's wrong about banning trolls? And now making people who write shit just to write shit victims.
And forking an opensource project is not a new thing, good luck supporting it better than existing maintainers, especially when you did it in spite of something being written, and when it is not a rational decision
Accepting abuse is not a "rational decision" but it appears that way to you since you hate the abused party, that's all. What's wrong with discussing social problems is you can't define what they are. You probably think you have empathy, but it's only for your preferred groups of people. Of course you will end up dividing people with selective empathy. I know this is probably a waste of time to even say because you write like you've been mind***** by corporate mass media.
W0keism is dividing people by labeling more than average wacist joe would ever care
@@I-ONLY-BUILD-MECHS-AND-DUSTERS I honestly don't understand how could you made all these conclusions.
There is a thing named "paradox of tolerance", you might want to read about it. I try not tolerate intolerance, therefore I don't feel sorry for people being banned for toxic replies to absolutely neutral post. It is not the same as I don't have an empathy. If something discriminatory ever happened to banned people, I would be on their side. But I don't see anything wrong in people being banned for toxic behavior. There are some things that people should be more aware of and that some organization is doing genuine efforts to raise awareness of it is very good thing. It is not negating their other efforts (for example improving engine and fixing bugs).
And I also don't see any reason to make it personal and toxic like you did, you should have listened to yourself and not waste your time.
@@crazytushkan4022 You're uninformed on the situation.
"Yeah, blocking for criticism ... right, sure. First of all what's wrong about company company discussing social problems?"
Because MAYBE, Just MAYBE, They aren't/weren't focused on social problems..... MAYBE, They have a buggy game engine they have to work on. And instead they targeted devs over this.
Man, sooner or later, we need to make our own engine 😢
Right now I'm working with Unreal Engine, but I think it would be a lot of fun to make a basic engine sometime in the future. Retro games are super great, and it's a huge challenge for developers. Not something that I recommend anybody jump right into, but it's not the end of the world if you are going for older style games.
Just gotta get an idea and the motivation and there's plenty of developers out there that love to help solve problems you end up encountering.
Honestly, I think the people that wanted to leave Unity early on were a bit hastily irrational because for the most part the runtime fee didn't even affect them and now they are stuck in limbo. I actually saw this coming and have actually told people not to be so hasty but emotions is stronger than logic. 🤷
Redot game engine the fork of it, will take the Throne ❤I hope❤ Because I hate seeing woke posts and the prohibitive mind.
Godot is basically unity but with worse performance, game maker is better for 2d games and unity/ unreal are better for 3d games. Godot is worth using though as it’s free. If you want to make a game that does not require a large amount of performance use it.
Stupid people need first-hand experience to learn about making mistakes. Smart people can learn from watching the mistakes of others and spare themselves a lot of pain in the learning process. You don't want to commit your time and energy making a game on an engine constructed by stupid people.
good project try not to consume itself with stupid people just coincidentally belonging to specific political subgroups challenge level: impossible
Pronoun people causing trouble!? What!?😮
It's weird seeing authoritative positions emerge from what is essentially a crowdsourced endeavor. I'm assuming the community manager was an appointed position, which implies someone already in an elevated position installed them there. Ideally, it should have at least been put to a vote; and at this point with all the feedback/pushback, some corrective measures should be taken. Not to get too political, but grass roots movements often fail when power vacuums get filled by people who put themselves before the collective; like BLM and Patrisse Cullors for example.
My understanding is that a key figure entered the development side that was hyper political, pushed out some apolitical folks, installed CM. CM pushed for a an official discord to exercise more control over the conversation. Started banning people left and right for objecting to the community being boiled like a frog with political messaging.
Discord moderators in the new discord were largely the same as the old, so they were able to keep the messaging pretty consistent between the official and non-official discords.
Seems like after 6 months of this they finally succumbed to their own echo chamber and couldn't handle the cacophony of condemnation across every social media avenue they had open.
I think it's a reflection on 1) how educated white collar individuals are truly getting indoctrinated into authoritarianism. That is, the chances are very high that no matter who they select an organization or corporation is hiring a closet authoritarian. We are essentially creating a whole generation of tyrants.