My best friend and I read the series at the same time, and we both believed Elaida would be revealed to be Black Ajah and were just waiting for it. Then, when we finished the books we were like oh... she's not actually Black Ajah, she's just a bitch XD
I particularly enjoy hearing her POV in the first chapter of TSR, you get that she isn't evil, but just trying to achieve the same thing (save the world) in a wrongheaded way. So many of the entities in WoT (hello whitecloaks) are like that - not on the side of the shadow, but still manage to be nemesis to our heroes. A very interesting character!
Josie S the thing is everything she does benefits the shadow and hurts the light. She tears the White Tower in half and almost makes it so that the black ajah takes over the White Tower
Truth Lord Gamer, but she has some serious cognitive dissonance going on. If you asked her, she'd say the rebels are tearing apart the tower, and she doesn't have a clue about the black ajah, until she gets suspicious of Alviarin. Even then she doesnt know for sure. Serious cognitive dissonance.
@@josies1604 Eliada refuses to believe that the Black Ajah exists, she considers it a filthy lie and nothing pisses her off more before she becomes the Amerlyn.
White Tower raises a Red to the Amyrlin Seat. She betrays Manetheren, perpetuating the Trolloc War for another a few decades. White Tower raises a Red to the Amyrlin Seat. She antagonizes Aurthur Hawkwing, leading him to unite the Westlands against Tar Valon. No wonder the Black Ajah didn't put one of their own on the Amyrlin Seat. A Red would do more damage than they ever could.
I hate her. Padan Fain mentions in book 6 Lord of Chaos, Chapter 28 Letters, that he has used his ability that he does not really know what it is on both Elaida do Avriny a'Roihan and Pedron Niall.
Elaida is a great villain, because she's not evil, she's just wrong, and unreasonable. Elaida is also convinced that she knows more than she does because of her Foretellings, which in theory should make her more in the know. It's kind of ironic that her own Foretellings are the cause of Elaida's undoing, which, I guess was also true of Gitara Moroso. So on the list of Talents that an Aes Sedai might want for herself, I would put Foretelling at the very bottom of the list. I don't think Padan Fain is the reason that Elaida went off the deep end. I think it's simple cognitive dissonance, combined with her Foretelling-fueled narcissism. On some level, Elaida has to realize that she is doing the work of the Shadow by splitting the White Tower, but of course this idea is anathema to Elaida. She has to try to deny her own role in destroying the unity of the Aes Sedai, and has to scapegoat literally everyone else. Her actions and attitudes toward Egwene is where we see Elaida at her most irrational, and I really don't think that's Padan Fain's influence. I think this is where Elaida's conflicting ideas can't be reconciled and she simply loses it. She knows deep down that Egwene is right, and she knows deep down that Egwene is more suitable for the Amyrlin's stole than herself. But her personal confidence and pride can't deal with that realization, so she lashes out. This is where she basically snaps. And we don't need to look any further than Mesaana or Alviarin if we want to point to someone who could be subtly undermining Elaida, either using Compulsion or something else. We don't have to turn to her brief encounter with Padan Fain to explain why Elaida holds the Idiot Ball so often.
The thing that I see Fain's hand in is that one twisted Foretelling Elaida had. Previously we have seen that the various forms of Foretelling are pretty much absolute in one way or another. Perspective not withstanding. But then Elaida has this obviously wrong Foretelling that she goes on about that perfectly feeds into her sense of self. It just wasn't right. And who do we see at her side later? Who was there around the time the Foretelling happened and who mentions weird gifts he used? Fain. It all fit perfectly, honestly, with her having a sense of losing control that conflicted her visions and fueled her hysteria.
Trump is intentionally divisive and fanning smoldering extremism into flames while having no plan about anything beside that. Elaida believes to be right about how thing should be done and stays on course to a fault while having a simple goal: Making the world survive what is to come. You could argue something similar to Trump, but while Elaida is certainly vain and narcissistic, she is not as egotistical and ignorant as Trump. She stands by her word and doesn't flip-flop in three contradicting directions in the same sentence. Doesn't make her any less misguided though. But she doesn't know.
Seems like Fain's influence was so effective precisely because he was pushing her in a direction she was already heading. Which could make his "touch" superfluous, but I reckon it's what made her completely irredeemably mad with power, & utterly blind to her own folly. I suppose it may all come down to how much humanity the reader wants to see in her.
I always saw it as if Elaida became drunk with power after she became Amyrlin and her perspective on her things got scewed. She also began to drink a lot in the later books and that probably altered her behaviour and perspective on things.
Yeah. Stop blaming her silly decisions on Padan Fain or her happily being a tool of the Black Ajah and removing her OWN Responsibility for her choices and actions.
She's a really fun character to hate. If that makes sense. I really loved the scene with her and egwene. Egwene basically trolls her the entire time lol. Great video again man! And she does have a notable possession, the six striped stole lol.
It would be amazing if they show Fain’s influences in the series. When they meet and talk a shot of his evil, madness, and aura seeping in to her. Doesn’t have to be a long camera shot. Even just a quick freeze-frame of the two of them showing his corruption leaking in to her. Then with the explanation we receive of Shadar Logoth and how it functions. First an evil spirit that tricks you to bring something out of the city so he can posses you and escape. Then going on to spread his evil and madness across the world just like he did in Shadar Logoth. Morain give this warning in eye of the world, and all together I think it could be a wonderful way to illustrate what happens to her character. It never has to be verbally addressed ever either just something for fans to figure out.
"She isn't Evil"? What do you call her torturing of Siuan and Morraine while she had power over them? She literally BROKE Thom Merrilin by her treatment of his nephew and caused Morgase to condemn Thom to death, simply so SHE could be closer to Morgase. Every single move Elaida makes it to increase her Power. She is the current equivalent of Lanfear, without ANY of Lanfear's love. Yes, Elaida IS Evil!
Elaida was NOT used by either Padan Fain or the Black Ajah. We need to begin recognising that Elaida was responsible for ALL her actions - including the Torturing of Siuan and Morraine when they were Accepted; the ILLICIT Gentling of Thom Merrilin's nephew; the Plot to overthrow Siuan (in this she was AIDED by the Black Ajah, but the Plot was her's); the physical Torturing of Siuan, both in her office and when they put her in the Dungeons; the decision to Torture Rand into submission (she give explicit instructions that Rand is to be brought to her "on his knees"); and the decision to Torture Egwene. These are ALL Elaida's decisions and Elaida's actions. Too often we like to excuse people on the grounds that they were "manipulated" (Literally "The Devil/ Padan Fain / Black Ajah made me do it"). Yet if we look at the underlying character, we see that ANY manipulation is merely pushing people where they want to go. Elaida HATED Siuan. Everything else follows from that. We don't need a Black Ajah or a Padan Fain (In fact, I think RJ made a few errors in having Alviarin as Black Ajah and putting Fain in contact with Elaida). If you want a counter example, there were almost as many Black Ajah (including Sheriam and Verin) AND one of the Forsaken close to Egwene, but they don't seem able to "Manipulate" Egwene. I wonder why?!
Elaida represents all the bad with the Aes Sedai that aren't Black Ajah. She is designed as a ruthless power hungry despot that fails to be outright evil, while characters like Sevanna are evil without being a darkfriend. Her best counterpart is Therava the Wise One.
Great video, Elaida is really a character that is easy to hate, being arrogant, making life hard for our main characters and making stupid decisions. Please do Cadsuane next
"Well, he had brushed them both with what he carried from Aridhol; they might possibly trust their own mothers, but never al’Thor now". Fain is talking there about Elaida and Pedron Niall. Fain exacerbated her paranoia.
Elaida suffers from "I'm the Smartest Person in the Room Syndrome". Those afflicted by this malaise demonstrate a near pathological aversion to taking advice. After all, I'm the Smartest Person in the Room. Why would I take advice from someone beneath me? She demonstrates the usual symptoms--1) isolated; 2) arrogant; 3) doesn't recover from failure well; 4) can't handle challenges to her authority either real or perceived (this is not an exhaustive list). I believe Fain exacerbated these traits by adding paranoia.
What I love about Elaida is that it she sees herself as the authoritative, firm hand the tower needs, but the truth is she is a bully. She's always thinking in terms of "making" people do what she wants, rather than having discussions and compromising. I think the story speaks for itself as to how well that works on the strong willed, independent Aes Sedai. I had forgotten Padan Fain had spent time in the tower, I'd say he left her more paranoid and distrustful than she'd been before, and that was enough to blind her in a lot of ways. The rest was just all her being extremely arrogant.
Elaida is one of my favourite characters. I love her downward spiral as a storyline. There are a lot of instances in the series that make her a sympathetic character. Moiraine and Siuan are very unforgiving and the personal relationship and history between explains a lot, M and S not necessarily coming our whiter than white. I believe that Elaida was manipulated by Fain and the Black Ajah, just like many world leaders who are not seen in such a negative light. She is arrogant, but she is also very capable and has proved herself in a distinguished record in training and positions. The stigma that all Red Amyrlins must be bad is also hard to shake off. In another time or at a more appropriate age, she could have been a great leader.
Leah Kaiser Agree with this! Would start the list with a delineation of hated vs worst, though. “Hated” to me would be a positive description in the sense that you love to hate them. Like Darth Vader or Severus Snape. Good villains. I nominate Elaida, Pedron Niall, and Padan Fain.
Great video as usual.This neatly placed things in perspective for me. I also think it was hinted in the books that Fain influenced Elaida as he did Pedron Niall with the same type of paranoia they exhibited. Although right from the onset Elaida was introduced to show what the Aes Sedai were really like by a large majority, she served to show us in EOTW that Moraine was cool and different. From then we see the Aes Sedai incompetance represented by Elaida in wrong interpretations of prophecy, arrogance, subtle influence of the Black Ajah etc.
Rewatching this after going through the series again and (in case you ever decide to revisit the character examinations at some point) I think it's odd that you say she has "no notable possessions" when the entire Salidar plot made good use of her three boxes and she has this really interesting relationship with her figurines throughout the story- make note especially of when her figurines get thrown or broken.
The RBF moment made me laugh my ass off....you rock. So damn funny. You're channel rocks too and makes me love the story all over again. It also reminds me of things I forget.
I never got the impression that she was influenced by Fain - only that when she had to be "accountable" to someone (ie: she had someone above her in the power structure), she was much more cautious and measured. As soon as she was the top of the pyramid, she didn't need to be cautious and measured - her will was Law, and so she didn't feel the need to consider her actions because no one would hold her to account for them. Oops.
Love these character examinations and glad I can finally watch them as I finished WoT 2 weeks ago! Would actually love to see one on Cadsuane- when she first showed up I thought she was either a part of the whole “dead walking” thing or a figment of Rand’s madness- the way she was introduced to the series was surreal and she ended up being one of my favorites!
Nice! Elaida is a great villain. And I swear I always have seen her played by Sigourney Weaver. She has that handsome look about her. I do believe she was influenced by Padan Fain. Either that or she REALLY let things go to her head.
I think it is also another case of power corrupting, but in this case she also had a large number of Black Ajah influencing her and the tower and being controlled more directly. I think she took each affront and each attempt at her power and let it further bend her. She always displayed controlling attitudes, but in an extremely chaotic environment influenced to a degree by Fain's touch probably making her paranoid, person's making attempts at her power, and a half dozen other factors she fractured.
So, does anyone know if her foretelling about the royal house of Andor was really about Rand, since he's the son of Tigraine after all, and she had the foretelling years (?) before Morgase actually ascended to the throne?
That is the general take on the meaning of the reading. You could argue that it was something else, but it is hard to argue that someone else was more important to the pattern than The Dragon Reborn.
I wouldn't believe specifically Rand, nor specifically Trakand nor Mantear (Tigraine's house), since many of them are *essentially* involved in the plot some way, Tigraine, Rand, Elayne, Galad and Gawyn essentially, and the others in the periphery.
While that is the general take, as stated, I think this is one of the most literal foretellings in the series. The royal house of Andor had arguably the most impact on the pattern and the last battle than any other group. Rand himself, obviously, but also his mother before him, and Elayne as well. Elayne was no side character herself, you know. She accomplished an incredible amount of things in the books, all the while appearing to be a girly little princess who was boy crazy. Her advice and opinions laid much of the groundwork for quite a number of plot points. Nevermind her brothers running off and doing things. Without Gawyn, Egwene wouldn't have survived to the last battle. I never did like Galad, though.
How about an episode on characters and/or objects and who they seem to based on, sometimes loosely and sometimes extremely obvious? Here are some examples of what I think and some of the reasons why. Examples: 1. Artur Hawkwing --> The legend of King Arthur 2. Callandor --> Excalibur 3. Matrim Cauthon --> Odin - Lost an eye to gain knowledge - Walks around in a cloak with a staff 4. Gareth Bryne --> General Robert E. Lee - Leads a "rebel" army - His horse was named Traveller 5. Probably the most controversial on the list. Messima --> Compilation of John the Baptist and Muhammad - Called the Prophet - After conversion creates an army and conquers various areas
I think Elaida might be introduced in a cold open in S2. Then I think we should see Padan Fain actually touch her when they talk and then see Padan Fain and Alviarin at least share a familiar look.
Elaida is a character I loved to hate. Robert Jordan truly excelled at presenting all different sides in such a conflict. Elaida was the one that knew the things that had to be done, but wanted to have the tool on as tight a leash as possible. Only to be used in one moment and disposed off afterwards. It was the other extreme to Moiraine's and Siuan's handling of Rand and she managed to gather support against them. Sadly for her, the Wheel does not like being prevented from spinning what has to be spun and so she turned into a misguided antagonist that only wanted the best for the world. I hope they can find someone to convey such a "simple" and upstanding character.
Thanks! Always interesting. I don't think it's necessary to attribute her growing short-sightedness to the influence of Padan Fain. Rather, I see her as someone with a deeply flawed personality who finally achieves her quest for power but without realizing that she lacks the ability for the job.
Isn't it strange how key actions by Elaida are "Forgotten" by commentators. There's a reason why Readers Hate Elaida and commentators do themselves no favors by their "amnesia". For instance, Elaida is one of the Red Sisters who "Gentles" Thom's nephew and abandons him. She was a key participant in the "Vileness" but suffered no punishment for this. Immediately after deposing Siuan, she has her tortured mercilessly and may in fact have been the principal Torturer. In fact, while still in Siuan's office, she physically assaults Siuan. All of this is BEFORE she has any contact with Fain. The first time we see Moraine with other Aes Sedai, she says that NO Red Sister is "Gentle" and Elaida exemplifies Red's inherent Sadism.
Love me some wheel of time. You seem to be one too. I started in the forgotten realms. Love forgotten realms. But wheel is my favorite series. Jordan was the man
For me, I think she's a good character but executed slightly differently with Brandon than with Robert, and that is why I think she changed. She was already changing towards the "Now that I'm leader, I don't want to recognize that I suck at it" during RJs time, but with Brandon she took a more cartoon villain dive, without trying to be malicious about that or anything. He was trying to wrap the series up gracefully and largely succeeding, so perhaps it's just a result of cutting a corner or two. Anyway... I will say that her fate, as well as a few others like it, is the absolute worst I can personally think of, since they are all very long-lived to boot. Truly horrifying. :(
Just a minor point of pedantry, but for what it's worth I don't think Galina is head of the Black Ajah, only head of the Red. Alviarin was head of the black Ajah. Love the channel, keep up the good work x
[SPOILERS] [ALSO THIS IS LONG SORRY] This is a great video! WOT character deep dives often focus on the main characters (for obvious reasons), so it's refreshing to see a different kind of character analysed like this. I've mentioned this to other WOT fans I know, but I think something I would love to see (if possible) in the TV show is a more balanced portrayal of Elaida and her supporters in the context of the Tower schism. After all, one Aes Sedai alone can't bring down the Tower, so Elaida must have had considerable support both in and out of the Hall in order to depose Siuan. I personally think as readers it's too easy to choose to side with Egwene and the rebels. Perhaps it would enrich the story if the TV audience felt genuinely conflicted over the split - should we side with Egwene, a character we have seen and loved from the beginning as she has grown into a formidable channeler? Or should we side with Elaida, someone who is maybe a little too headstrong but genuinely wants to fix the White Tower's weaknesses and strengthen the institution? I also think Elaida and Alviarin work as great contrasts for each other as they seem like two sides of the same coin. They both represent similar but also drastically different types of loyalty as well as cruelty.
I believe that between Padan Fain and Alviarin, Elaida may not have been in her right mind. Remember that Mesaana, one of the Forsaken wants the Tower divided, and would have taught Alviarin some simple weaves (and how to disguise the channeling as well) to make her mind more susceptible to manipulation. Also, Padan Fain was becoming Mordeth, so he planted the seeds of his madness in her as well...
"I dare the truth, Elaida. You are a coward and a tyrant. I'd name you Darkfriend as well, but I suspect that the Dark One would perhaps be embarrassed to associate with you."
It´s a shame Elaida´s character was not more nuanced and developed. At first, she was really interesting and fascinating as a character to just turn out to be one dimensional. It would´ve been interesting to see moments of development, perhaps moments where she questions her own actions or a moment in the end when she understands her own stupidity but too late.
In Camlyn, because of her position as the only Aes Sedai with direct influence on the queen most of the time, the news of the world may have been both more abundant and accurate. In Tar Valon, with so much backstabbing going on, her information network may have been less efficient and less accurate.
Even though I didn’t like her, her ending up with the damane (spelling) on her neck by the Seanchan is why I consider the Seanchan and Tuon evil. The Last Battle should have been The Forces Of the Light fighting the Seanchan instead of The Sharans & Demandred.
Lori Ann White that is bullshit and you know it. If the nations had fought the Seanchan instead of the dharnas the Seanchan would have turned to the shadow and the light would have been crushed
The dagger enhanced her natural traits. She was one of the main reenactors of the vileness of the reds just killing males. Her power corrupted her the more she got.
I like the point that Fain could have twisted her, but I think the black ajah sisters could absolutely foiled everything she tried to do. As her pursuits continuously failed, she became desperate. Desperate people make progressively worse decisions. Her ego and lack of perspective and any real friendship also limited her abilities as a leader.
Yes. Also, her fortellings make her over confidant, convinced that anything she does is justified because her fortellings have hinted that she will be proven right. When things start to go wrong, she's unable to re-evaluate and see if maybe she was mistaken.
I'll just jump in here. Not disagreeing with you entirely, but I think you overstate Fain's influence. At least to a point. Yes, true, Fain influenced both Elaida and Pedron Niall, among others. Here is where I have a minor note. Fain's influence was largely limited to their impressions of Rand. He made sure neither could ever trust the Dragon Reborn. Elaida went mad for many of the same reasons that Rand did. Human reasons. Her hatred of Rand, of male channelers, her torture at Alviarin's hand among them. But most of all, becoming a leader. One thing I believe you missed is that power simply corrupts. She grew more and more arrogant throughout the series. That story arc began when she became Amyrlin. Starting with the stools, gradually becoming more and more authoritarian. She wanted to return to the "Glory Days" of the White Tower. As a leader, it completely stands to reason that she began to abuse it so quickly. That was part of her personality even in New Spring. She had her reasons. I also disagree that she "got stupid overnight" and Fain did it. Capturing Rand until the last battle was to be fought was logical from her point of view. It would have kept him out of the way and ensured he wouldn't go mad. Stupid? Not really. Woefully unprepared for the level of power Rand had already accumulated? Yep. Fain was only part of the problem. Elaida herself with unlimited power was the rest. She refused to accept how quickly and how much the world had changed. That remained true until her capture. I could name a few politicians she reminds me of. I won't, however. The dinner party where Egwene confronts her was extremely well written. Her counter arguments alone make that scene unforgettable. It wasn't just Fain, all I'm saying.
Here's an interesting point about Elaida. She CHOSE the Red Ajah. The SOLE purpose of the Red Ajah is seeking out and "Gentling" Men who can channel. Yet, NEVER in the course of her life, until she becomes Amerlyn Seat do we see or hear of her "Gentling" Men. So, either the Red Ajah has an underlying philosophy that appeals to Elaida or, given that she chose to dedicate her life to politics (the purpose of the Blue Ajah), she chose the Wrong Ajah. And, my sense is that the Underlying philosophy of the Red Ajah (Misandry), did completely appeal to Elaida.
Sir, I already have audible, but can I still enter your code somewhere to help support the channel? I don’t want a free book, more just to show Audiable/Amazon that you referred me?
Hmm, I watched tis yesterday, I though there was something wrong. There was no thumbs up (did add one) and there was no chance of leaving a comment. RUclips being RUclips I guess. ;-) Well, I'll take my chance this time then. BTW, SPOILERS for any non-book readers but this was a red spoiler warning anyway, wasn't it? Yeah, fortelling is NOT an exact "science" it seems as Rand is also technically a part of the royalty of Andor. Though I suppose Elaine, Galad (and Gawyn to some extent) DO have a large role to play so it still fits? Also, love to hate Elaida.
I agree that she is definitely my most hated character. Just slightly edging out Egween. That being said, I'm not very interested in hearing the opinion of the number one servant of the dark one
Elaida is a very hateable character, but I like her simply because she is an antagonist without being a darkfriend. Although, seriously, can we talk about how the Red Ajah basically became the second "evil" Ajah? The only likeable character that I remember from that Ajah is Pevara, and she doesn't appear until fairly late in the story. I know she's a secondary character, but i would love an analysis on Pevara Tazanovni to balance out the Red-Ajah-hate.
The Red Ajah has always seemed to be as bad as the Black to me, I cannot stand any of the Red sisters. It honestly felt to me like Pevara was only put into the story to try and make the Red's seem less bad. Because every single Red we met before her was A) Black, B) a hateful bitch.
I LOVED her on Fringe. One of the best shows ever. I'd love to see her as an aes sedai, However, I wouldn't want her as Elaida. I hate Elaida too much for her to be played by someone I truly like.
@@NaeBlis Ah makes sense, that J's for the reply and for the content. You made a great point about the dumbing down of Elaida, I think the idea of Gain being a corrupting influence would be perfect for show continuity.
Im curious as to why you think she was especially intelligent. There is nothing in her backstory or her actions in any point of the story that leads me to believe she was any more intelligent than any other Aes Sedai. In fact I think she makes continual mistakes and blunders throughout the series and is used as a useful idiot by the black ajah without her ever realising it. Being raised to accepted and then to the shawl so early has everything to do with willpower and strength in the one power which no one is denying she has, but little to do with intelligence that I can see. As for her notable actions she immediately misreads her own foretelling and attaches herself to Morgase where she largely does nothing of import. She lets Rand get away from her when she first meets him and foretells how important he will be. Ask yourself this, if that was Moiraine, Siuan or Cadsuane in that position do you think Rand makes it out of the city? She is then used as a pawn by the black ajah to rip apart the tower, allows Siuan and Leanne to esape. Tries to capture Rand which ends in disaster. Tries to defeat the black tower that ends in disaster. I don't think she had a single plan that went correctly and those that partially succeeded did so because the black ajah led her along like a fool.
I can agree with most of that. She was able to figure out what was going on with Suian and Moiraine and Rand. She was rightfully skeptical of Rand as well. I wouldn’t say she was a genius by any means, but she was competent
@@NaeBlis Always interesting to see how other people view a character given the exact same information as you. I submitted the video to reddit/r/wot because I was curious how everyone else read elaida. for example I dont even give her that much credit for discovering the Siuan Moriaine plot. The main instigator for her starting to pull those threads was not some grand insight or piece of information she managed to ferret out that no one else did, It was the dumb luck ( or ta'veren nature of rand) of meeting rand and getting a foretelling of him then having Moiraine whisk him away then the second bit of dumb luck of just having been accepted over Siuan and Moiraine and rembering the relationship. BTW I only recently got into the WOT youtube scene after starting a re-read for the upcoming series and I am really enjoying binging your videos. Looking forward to more
@@NaeBlis there is a simple explainable reason for her competence and intelligence flying out the window as soon as she is in power. She has not enough experience wielding power as a leader and it immediately goes to her head. I have seen and experienced myself what happens when someone becomes a boss for the first time. It makes a good person intolerable and a bad person even worse. The boss eithe grows as a person and becomes a better boss or as in Elaida's case power is stripped from her never to return.
So, just had a thought about the new series. I think you could condense the entire andor royal line into 2 characters, possibly 3. Elayne merges with morgase, gawyn merges with gareth byrne and galad either is cut totally or Bornhald Sr. takes his place in the story. Hear me out. There is almost no reason elayne cant be written out. What does she do that other characters couldnt do? White tower stuff? Who cares? Nymaeve and egwene are plenty for the white tower plots. Now, if you made morgase a full aes sedai, you wouldn't need elayne at all whatsoever. General audiences will not buy that Rand is such a ladies man that he can keep three women happy and all three can be okay with dating him. No chance. Galad is a pointless character that only serves as the morality of the whitecloaks, bornhald wasnt a bad guy and would probably be disgusted by what they became. Gawyn and byrne end up at the exact same places half the time, and if byrne were morgase lover, he would have motivation for dumai wells. I also think you could definately get rid of min farshaw too if you needs to. Hope all characters make the cut, but the royal line of andor are probably the easiest to cut. Thoughts?
@@wolf3794 Alviarin thinks to herself in book 6 or 7 that she was raised to head of black ajah by ishamael a decade or two before the story even begins. The WoT companion agrees, and says nothing about Galina being head of black ajah. Where's your information coming from?
Yeah, Elaida is a sad case. I think she is a homophobic lesbian who ALSO does not trust men and who hates LADY Moraine and Siuan and is so jealous of their power and their intimacy and it just poisons her. The fact that she never becomes a dark friend but gets worse and worse and worse as she is corrupted. I feel a LOT of pity for her. She is so weak in character because she has never accepted herself and projects all her self hatred onto others.
I think you’re reading too much into Fain’s influence. From other videos you have posted, you have expressed how much you enjoyed Fain as a character, but you could eliminate him after Eye of the World, and the story would basically be the same. Elaida is arrogant and supremely overconfident but all her actions are explained. In fact, from her point of you, they make sense. It is only when Sanderson takes over writing after Jordan‘s death that the character acts without any kind of rationality.
Can we take a moment to appreciate the parallels between Elaida (in office) and Trump (in office)? I'm not sure if that's what you were alluding to with the white board, but I think it's a fun thought experiment.
Also, judging by what happens while she is in office and taking the Seanchan accent (audiobooks) into consideration, we can expect Russians on pterodacyls to attack our White Tower soon.
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My best friend and I read the series at the same time, and we both believed Elaida would be revealed to be Black Ajah and were just waiting for it. Then, when we finished the books we were like oh... she's not actually Black Ajah, she's just a bitch XD
Yo I thought that too
Even if she isn’t a Black Ajah she is still inadvertently on the shadows side and also being influenced by the Dark One like the White Cloaks were.
She was not a Russian/ Black Ajah spy. She was a useful idiot.
I kind of thought she was not Black Ajah just well you said it.
When I first read her and her foretelling, I deduced from that she would not be black but is pure evil next or equalling them in deeds
Elaida: I have the foretelling!
Also Elaida: Interprets everything WRONG!
Right. She never thought that the royal house of Andor at the time she had the foretelling wasn't the house she attached herself to as advisor.
@@xrysoryba Indeed, she referred to House Mantear!
I particularly enjoy hearing her POV in the first chapter of TSR, you get that she isn't evil, but just trying to achieve the same thing (save the world) in a wrongheaded way. So many of the entities in WoT (hello whitecloaks) are like that - not on the side of the shadow, but still manage to be nemesis to our heroes. A very interesting character!
Also keep in mind she was manipulated by the shadow
Josie S the thing is everything she does benefits the shadow and hurts the light. She tears the White Tower in half and almost makes it so that the black ajah takes over the White Tower
Truth Lord Gamer, but she has some serious cognitive dissonance going on. If you asked her, she'd say the rebels are tearing apart the tower, and she doesn't have a clue about the black ajah, until she gets suspicious of Alviarin. Even then she doesnt know for sure. Serious cognitive dissonance.
@@josies1604 Eliada refuses to believe that the Black Ajah exists, she considers it a filthy lie and nothing pisses her off more before she becomes the Amerlyn.
@@brent9355 And was brushed by the shadar logoth daggers darkness
White Tower raises a Red to the Amyrlin Seat. She betrays Manetheren, perpetuating the Trolloc War for another a few decades.
White Tower raises a Red to the Amyrlin Seat. She antagonizes Aurthur Hawkwing, leading him to unite the Westlands against Tar Valon.
No wonder the Black Ajah didn't put one of their own on the Amyrlin Seat. A Red would do more damage than they ever could.
This is hilariously true
I hate her. Padan Fain mentions in book 6 Lord of Chaos, Chapter 28 Letters, that he has used his ability that he does not really know what it is on both Elaida do Avriny a'Roihan and Pedron Niall.
Elaida is a great villain, because she's not evil, she's just wrong, and unreasonable. Elaida is also convinced that she knows more than she does because of her Foretellings, which in theory should make her more in the know. It's kind of ironic that her own Foretellings are the cause of Elaida's undoing, which, I guess was also true of Gitara Moroso. So on the list of Talents that an Aes Sedai might want for herself, I would put Foretelling at the very bottom of the list.
I don't think Padan Fain is the reason that Elaida went off the deep end. I think it's simple cognitive dissonance, combined with her Foretelling-fueled narcissism. On some level, Elaida has to realize that she is doing the work of the Shadow by splitting the White Tower, but of course this idea is anathema to Elaida. She has to try to deny her own role in destroying the unity of the Aes Sedai, and has to scapegoat literally everyone else. Her actions and attitudes toward Egwene is where we see Elaida at her most irrational, and I really don't think that's Padan Fain's influence. I think this is where Elaida's conflicting ideas can't be reconciled and she simply loses it. She knows deep down that Egwene is right, and she knows deep down that Egwene is more suitable for the Amyrlin's stole than herself. But her personal confidence and pride can't deal with that realization, so she lashes out. This is where she basically snaps.
And we don't need to look any further than Mesaana or Alviarin if we want to point to someone who could be subtly undermining Elaida, either using Compulsion or something else. We don't have to turn to her brief encounter with Padan Fain to explain why Elaida holds the Idiot Ball so often.
Siansonea Orande Elaida reminds me of Donald Trump
@@johnsumner6593 in some ways I can see it. Pretty sure Donald Trump is actually evil though.
The thing that I see Fain's hand in is that one twisted Foretelling Elaida had. Previously we have seen that the various forms of Foretelling are pretty much absolute in one way or another. Perspective not withstanding. But then Elaida has this obviously wrong Foretelling that she goes on about that perfectly feeds into her sense of self. It just wasn't right. And who do we see at her side later? Who was there around the time the Foretelling happened and who mentions weird gifts he used? Fain. It all fit perfectly, honestly, with her having a sense of losing control that conflicted her visions and fueled her hysteria.
Trump is intentionally divisive and fanning smoldering extremism into flames while having no plan about anything beside that.
Elaida believes to be right about how thing should be done and stays on course to a fault while having a simple goal: Making the world survive what is to come.
You could argue something similar to Trump, but while Elaida is certainly vain and narcissistic, she is not as egotistical and ignorant as Trump. She stands by her word and doesn't flip-flop in three contradicting directions in the same sentence. Doesn't make her any less misguided though. But she doesn't know.
Seems like Fain's influence was so effective precisely because he was pushing her in a direction she was already heading. Which could make his "touch" superfluous, but I reckon it's what made her completely irredeemably mad with power, & utterly blind to her own folly.
I suppose it may all come down to how much humanity the reader wants to see in her.
I always saw it as if Elaida became drunk with power after she became Amyrlin and her perspective on her things got scewed. She also began to drink a lot in the later books and that probably altered her behaviour and perspective on things.
Didnt help that her Keeper was a Black sister.
Yeah.
Stop blaming her silly decisions on Padan Fain or her happily being a tool of the Black Ajah and removing her OWN Responsibility for her choices and actions.
She's a really fun character to hate. If that makes sense. I really loved the scene with her and egwene. Egwene basically trolls her the entire time lol. Great video again man! And she does have a notable possession, the six striped stole lol.
It would be amazing if they show Fain’s influences in the series. When they meet and talk a shot of his evil, madness, and aura seeping in to her. Doesn’t have to be a long camera shot. Even just a quick freeze-frame of the two of them showing his corruption leaking in to her.
Then with the explanation we receive of Shadar Logoth and how it functions. First an evil spirit that tricks you to bring something out of the city so he can posses you and escape. Then going on to spread his evil and madness across the world just like he did in Shadar Logoth.
Morain give this warning in eye of the world, and all together I think it could be a wonderful way to illustrate what happens to her character. It never has to be verbally addressed ever either just something for fans to figure out.
I love the background dry erase board messages each video!!
Notable possessions; her menagerie of animal figurines helps establish some sympathy for her once you learn why she keeps them.
"She isn't Evil"? What do you call her torturing of Siuan and Morraine while she had power over them?
She literally BROKE Thom Merrilin by her treatment of his nephew and caused Morgase to condemn Thom to death, simply so SHE could be closer to Morgase.
Every single move Elaida makes it to increase her Power. She is the current equivalent of Lanfear, without ANY of Lanfear's love.
Yes, Elaida IS Evil!
Elaida was NOT used by either Padan Fain or the Black Ajah. We need to begin recognising that Elaida was responsible for ALL her actions - including the Torturing of Siuan and Morraine when they were Accepted; the ILLICIT Gentling of Thom Merrilin's nephew; the Plot to overthrow Siuan (in this she was AIDED by the Black Ajah, but the Plot was her's); the physical Torturing of Siuan, both in her office and when they put her in the Dungeons; the decision to Torture Rand into submission (she give explicit instructions that Rand is to be brought to her "on his knees"); and the decision to Torture Egwene. These are ALL Elaida's decisions and Elaida's actions.
Too often we like to excuse people on the grounds that they were "manipulated" (Literally "The Devil/ Padan Fain / Black Ajah made me do it"). Yet if we look at the underlying character, we see that ANY manipulation is merely pushing people where they want to go. Elaida HATED Siuan. Everything else follows from that. We don't need a Black Ajah or a Padan Fain (In fact, I think RJ made a few errors in having Alviarin as Black Ajah and putting Fain in contact with Elaida).
If you want a counter example, there were almost as many Black Ajah (including Sheriam and Verin) AND one of the Forsaken close to Egwene, but they don't seem able to "Manipulate" Egwene. I wonder why?!
Elaida represents all the bad with the Aes Sedai that aren't Black Ajah. She is designed as a ruthless power hungry despot that fails to be outright evil, while characters like Sevanna are evil without being a darkfriend. Her best counterpart is Therava the Wise One.
Great video, Elaida is really a character that is easy to hate, being arrogant, making life hard for our main characters and making stupid decisions.
Please do Cadsuane next
"Well, he had brushed them both with what he carried from Aridhol; they might possibly trust their own mothers, but never al’Thor now". Fain is talking there about Elaida and Pedron Niall. Fain exacerbated her paranoia.
Elaida suffers from "I'm the Smartest Person in the Room Syndrome". Those afflicted by this malaise demonstrate a near pathological aversion to taking advice. After all, I'm the Smartest Person in the Room. Why would I take advice from someone beneath me? She demonstrates the usual symptoms--1) isolated; 2) arrogant; 3) doesn't recover from failure well; 4) can't handle challenges to her authority either real or perceived (this is not an exhaustive list). I believe Fain exacerbated these traits by adding paranoia.
What I love about Elaida is that it she sees herself as the authoritative, firm hand the tower needs, but the truth is she is a bully. She's always thinking in terms of "making" people do what she wants, rather than having discussions and compromising. I think the story speaks for itself as to how well that works on the strong willed, independent Aes Sedai. I had forgotten Padan Fain had spent time in the tower, I'd say he left her more paranoid and distrustful than she'd been before, and that was enough to blind her in a lot of ways. The rest was just all her being extremely arrogant.
Elaida is one of my favourite characters. I love her downward spiral as a storyline. There are a lot of instances in the series that make her a sympathetic character. Moiraine and Siuan are very unforgiving and the personal relationship and history between explains a lot, M and S not necessarily coming our whiter than white. I believe that Elaida was manipulated by Fain and the Black Ajah, just like many world leaders who are not seen in such a negative light. She is arrogant, but she is also very capable and has proved herself in a distinguished record in training and positions. The stigma that all Red Amyrlins must be bad is also hard to shake off. In another time or at a more appropriate age, she could have been a great leader.
OMG! Do a list of the most hated characters!!!!!
Leah Kaiser Agree with this!
Would start the list with a delineation of hated vs worst, though. “Hated” to me would be a positive description in the sense that you love to hate them. Like Darth Vader or Severus Snape. Good villains.
I nominate Elaida, Pedron Niall, and Padan Fain.
Gawyn.
#1 Tuon
#2 Padan Fain
#3 Tuon
#4 Elaida
#5 Tuon
#6 Cadsuane
#7 Tuon
#8 Moghedian
#9 Tuon
#10 Jaret Byar
Honestly, Elaida is one of my favorite characters in the book, pretty much for the reasons everyone else hates her. Maybe I'm just nuts I dunno.
Great video as usual.This neatly placed things in perspective for me. I also think it was hinted in the books that Fain influenced Elaida as he did Pedron Niall with the same type of paranoia they exhibited. Although right from the onset Elaida was introduced to show what the Aes Sedai were really like by a large majority, she served to show us in EOTW that Moraine was cool and different. From then we see the Aes Sedai incompetance represented by Elaida in wrong interpretations of prophecy, arrogance, subtle influence of the Black Ajah etc.
Rewatching this after going through the series again and (in case you ever decide to revisit the character examinations at some point) I think it's odd that you say she has "no notable possessions" when the entire Salidar plot made good use of her three boxes and she has this really interesting relationship with her figurines throughout the story- make note especially of when her figurines get thrown or broken.
A character readers love to hate, even better when there is a satisfying comeuppance ❤️ great examination!
The RBF moment made me laugh my ass off....you rock. So damn funny. You're channel rocks too and makes me love the story all over again. It also reminds me of things I forget.
I never got the impression that she was influenced by Fain - only that when she had to be "accountable" to someone (ie: she had someone above her in the power structure), she was much more cautious and measured. As soon as she was the top of the pyramid, she didn't need to be cautious and measured - her will was Law, and so she didn't feel the need to consider her actions because no one would hold her to account for them.
Oops.
One of my greatest "YASS!!!!!" out loud moments reading the series was when she was renamed Sufa. So satisfying!
Love these character examinations and glad I can finally watch them as I finished WoT 2 weeks ago! Would actually love to see one on Cadsuane- when she first showed up I thought she was either a part of the whole “dead walking” thing or a figment of Rand’s madness- the way she was introduced to the series was surreal and she ended up being one of my favorites!
Nice! Elaida is a great villain. And I swear I always have seen her played by Sigourney Weaver. She has that handsome look about her.
I do believe she was influenced by Padan Fain. Either that or she REALLY let things go to her head.
I was thinking the same thing just the other day.
I think it is also another case of power corrupting, but in this case she also had a large number of Black Ajah influencing her and the tower and being controlled more directly. I think she took each affront and each attempt at her power and let it further bend her. She always displayed controlling attitudes, but in an extremely chaotic environment influenced to a degree by Fain's touch probably making her paranoid, person's making attempts at her power, and a half dozen other factors she fractured.
I'd call her menagerie a notable possession. It shows a sentimental side that almost rescues her from being a caricature.
So, does anyone know if her foretelling about the royal house of Andor was really about Rand, since he's the son of Tigraine after all, and she had the foretelling years (?) before Morgase actually ascended to the throne?
That is the general take on the meaning of the reading. You could argue that it was something else, but it is hard to argue that someone else was more important to the pattern than The Dragon Reborn.
I wouldn't believe specifically Rand, nor specifically Trakand nor Mantear (Tigraine's house), since many of them are *essentially* involved in the plot some way, Tigraine, Rand, Elayne, Galad and Gawyn essentially, and the others in the periphery.
While that is the general take, as stated, I think this is one of the most literal foretellings in the series. The royal house of Andor had arguably the most impact on the pattern and the last battle than any other group. Rand himself, obviously, but also his mother before him, and Elayne as well. Elayne was no side character herself, you know. She accomplished an incredible amount of things in the books, all the while appearing to be a girly little princess who was boy crazy. Her advice and opinions laid much of the groundwork for quite a number of plot points.
Nevermind her brothers running off and doing things. Without Gawyn, Egwene wouldn't have survived to the last battle. I never did like Galad, though.
@@arkainonreaper Morgase and her trial of Perrin massively impacted the book to. Bringing the COL into the allies is a pretty big deal.
It never occurred to me that Fain’s influence may have rubbed off on her. But I think that may be the case
Even if she isn’t a Black Ajah she is still inadvertently on the shadows side and also being influenced by the Dark One like the White Cloaks were.
How about an episode on characters and/or objects and who they seem to based on, sometimes loosely and sometimes extremely obvious?
Here are some examples of what I think and some of the reasons why.
Examples:
1. Artur Hawkwing --> The legend of King Arthur
2. Callandor --> Excalibur
3. Matrim Cauthon --> Odin
- Lost an eye to gain knowledge
- Walks around in a cloak with a staff
4. Gareth Bryne --> General Robert E. Lee
- Leads a "rebel" army
- His horse was named Traveller
5. Probably the most controversial on the list. Messima --> Compilation of John the Baptist and Muhammad
- Called the Prophet
- After conversion creates an army and conquers various areas
I love your character examinations!
I think Elaida might be introduced in a cold open in S2. Then I think we should see Padan Fain actually touch her when they talk and then see Padan Fain and Alviarin at least share a familiar look.
The white board sign is everything!!! 😂😂😂😂😂
Elaida is a character I loved to hate. Robert Jordan truly excelled at presenting all different sides in such a conflict. Elaida was the one that knew the things that had to be done, but wanted to have the tool on as tight a leash as possible. Only to be used in one moment and disposed off afterwards. It was the other extreme to Moiraine's and Siuan's handling of Rand and she managed to gather support against them. Sadly for her, the Wheel does not like being prevented from spinning what has to be spun and so she turned into a misguided antagonist that only wanted the best for the world. I hope they can find someone to convey such a "simple" and upstanding character.
Thanks! Always interesting. I don't think it's necessary to attribute her growing short-sightedness to the influence of Padan Fain. Rather, I see her as someone with a deeply flawed personality who finally achieves her quest for power but without realizing that she lacks the ability for the job.
Isn't it strange how key actions by Elaida are "Forgotten" by commentators.
There's a reason why Readers Hate Elaida and commentators do themselves no favors by their "amnesia".
For instance, Elaida is one of the Red Sisters who "Gentles" Thom's nephew and abandons him. She was a key participant in the "Vileness" but suffered no punishment for this.
Immediately after deposing Siuan, she has her tortured mercilessly and may in fact have been the principal Torturer. In fact, while still in Siuan's office, she physically assaults Siuan.
All of this is BEFORE she has any contact with Fain.
The first time we see Moraine with other Aes Sedai, she says that NO Red Sister is "Gentle" and Elaida exemplifies Red's inherent Sadism.
Two videos in one day! Rockin’ it, NaeBlis!
Please made one video about Cadsuane and Saerin Asnobar! Great Aes Sedai ✨
Specially Saerin Sedai, she was such a badass!
Love me some wheel of time. You seem to be one too. I started in the forgotten realms. Love forgotten realms. But wheel is my favorite series. Jordan was the man
From what i remember from the books, Elaida has the delusion of grandeur.
For me, I think she's a good character but executed slightly differently with Brandon than with Robert, and that is why I think she changed. She was already changing towards the "Now that I'm leader, I don't want to recognize that I suck at it" during RJs time, but with Brandon she took a more cartoon villain dive, without trying to be malicious about that or anything. He was trying to wrap the series up gracefully and largely succeeding, so perhaps it's just a result of cutting a corner or two. Anyway... I will say that her fate, as well as a few others like it, is the absolute worst I can personally think of, since they are all very long-lived to boot. Truly horrifying. :(
Just a minor point of pedantry, but for what it's worth I don't think Galina is head of the Black Ajah, only head of the Red. Alviarin was head of the black Ajah.
Love the channel, keep up the good work x
[SPOILERS] [ALSO THIS IS LONG SORRY]
This is a great video! WOT character deep dives often focus on the main characters (for obvious reasons), so it's refreshing to see a different kind of character analysed like this. I've mentioned this to other WOT fans I know, but I think something I would love to see (if possible) in the TV show is a more balanced portrayal of Elaida and her supporters in the context of the Tower schism. After all, one Aes Sedai alone can't bring down the Tower, so Elaida must have had considerable support both in and out of the Hall in order to depose Siuan. I personally think as readers it's too easy to choose to side with Egwene and the rebels. Perhaps it would enrich the story if the TV audience felt genuinely conflicted over the split - should we side with Egwene, a character we have seen and loved from the beginning as she has grown into a formidable channeler? Or should we side with Elaida, someone who is maybe a little too headstrong but genuinely wants to fix the White Tower's weaknesses and strengthen the institution? I also think Elaida and Alviarin work as great contrasts for each other as they seem like two sides of the same coin. They both represent similar but also drastically different types of loyalty as well as cruelty.
So when are we going to get one for lan mandragoran
He is a badass, 'nuff said.
Chuck Norris prays to Lan
I believe that between Padan Fain and Alviarin, Elaida may not have been in her right mind. Remember that Mesaana, one of the Forsaken wants the Tower divided, and would have taught Alviarin some simple weaves (and how to disguise the channeling as well) to make her mind more susceptible to manipulation. Also, Padan Fain was becoming Mordeth, so he planted the seeds of his madness in her as well...
Lol. White board message is on point today.
I've asked several of my friends who are WOT fans if it seems like Elaida is in control of the White Tower.
Ikr. Elaida was very much a female Trump. A bull-headed idiot that only makes things worse and should never have been in power.
"I dare the truth, Elaida. You are a coward and a tyrant. I'd name you Darkfriend as well, but I suspect that the Dark One would perhaps be embarrassed to associate with you."
Very well done
It´s a shame Elaida´s character was not more nuanced and developed. At first, she was really interesting and fascinating as a character to just turn out to be one dimensional. It would´ve been interesting to see moments of development, perhaps moments where she questions her own actions or a moment in the end when she understands her own stupidity but too late.
In Camlyn, because of her position as the only Aes Sedai with direct influence on the queen most of the time, the news of the world may have been both more abundant and accurate. In Tar Valon, with so much backstabbing going on, her information network may have been less efficient and less accurate.
Even though I didn’t like her, her ending up with the damane (spelling) on her neck by the Seanchan is why I consider the Seanchan and Tuon evil. The Last Battle should have been The Forces Of the Light fighting the Seanchan instead of The Sharans & Demandred.
Lori Ann White that is bullshit and you know it. If the nations had fought the Seanchan instead of the dharnas the Seanchan would have turned to the shadow and the light would have been crushed
I wish Elaida could be played by Sigourney Weaver and Alviarin by Madeleine Stowe!
Elaida do Avriny Biden.
Elaida, the White Tower's Manchurian Candidate
As Siuan put it, without Elaida, the Aes Sedai wouldn't have had such a great Amyrlin as Egwene.
Whoever they get to play her in the series better have a thick skin cuz people hate her.
I wish the guy who played Joffrey was still acting. He'd be awesome as Elaida, just dye his hair brown!
Lmfao at " Make the White Tower Great Again "
No notable possessions? An A'Dam... She might not own it, but it owns her!
The dagger enhanced her natural traits. She was one of the main reenactors of the vileness of the reds just killing males. Her power corrupted her the more she got.
She would be a fun one to cast. Which actress would you love to hate?
Basically agree with what you have said, thought Alaida was well done especially in the first 1/2 of the series.
I like the point that Fain could have twisted her, but I think the black ajah sisters could absolutely foiled everything she tried to do. As her pursuits continuously failed, she became desperate. Desperate people make progressively worse decisions. Her ego and lack of perspective and any real friendship also limited her abilities as a leader.
Yes. Also, her fortellings make her over confidant, convinced that anything she does is justified because her fortellings have hinted that she will be proven right. When things start to go wrong, she's unable to re-evaluate and see if maybe she was mistaken.
Galina isn't the leader of the Black Ajah. rather it is Alviarin.
I'll just jump in here. Not disagreeing with you entirely, but I think you overstate Fain's influence. At least to a point. Yes, true, Fain influenced both Elaida and Pedron Niall, among others.
Here is where I have a minor note. Fain's influence was largely limited to their impressions of Rand. He made sure neither could ever trust the Dragon Reborn.
Elaida went mad for many of the same reasons that Rand did. Human reasons. Her hatred of Rand, of male channelers, her torture at Alviarin's hand among them. But most of all, becoming a leader.
One thing I believe you missed is that power simply corrupts. She grew more and more arrogant throughout the series. That story arc began when she became Amyrlin. Starting with the stools, gradually becoming more and more authoritarian. She wanted to return to the "Glory Days" of the White Tower.
As a leader, it completely stands to reason that she began to abuse it so quickly. That was part of her personality even in New Spring. She had her reasons. I also disagree that she "got stupid overnight" and Fain did it.
Capturing Rand until the last battle was to be fought was logical from her point of view. It would have kept him out of the way and ensured he wouldn't go mad.
Stupid? Not really. Woefully unprepared for the level of power Rand had already accumulated? Yep.
Fain was only part of the problem. Elaida herself with unlimited power was the rest. She refused to accept how quickly and how much the world had changed.
That remained true until her capture. I could name a few politicians she reminds me of.
I won't, however. The dinner party where Egwene confronts her was extremely well written. Her counter arguments alone make that scene unforgettable.
It wasn't just Fain, all I'm saying.
Can someone remind me - was Elaida involved in the red and black ajah plots against potential taveren before the series began?
Minor correction, but Alviarin is the Head of the Black Ajah. Galina sat on the Supreme Council of the Black Ajah but was never its leader.
Here's an interesting point about Elaida.
She CHOSE the Red Ajah. The SOLE purpose of the Red Ajah is seeking out and "Gentling" Men who can channel. Yet, NEVER in the course of her life, until she becomes Amerlyn Seat do we see or hear of her "Gentling" Men.
So, either the Red Ajah has an underlying philosophy that appeals to Elaida or, given that she chose to dedicate her life to politics (the purpose of the Blue Ajah), she chose the Wrong Ajah.
And, my sense is that the Underlying philosophy of the Red Ajah (Misandry), did completely appeal to Elaida.
Sir, I already have audible, but can I still enter your code somewhere to help support the channel? I don’t want a free book, more just to show Audiable/Amazon that you referred me?
also, how can you not mantion Morgase as a relationship, i meen she managed to stand being around Elaida for more than 20 years.
TheRacoonGhost Morgase has no choice when it came to that
Get yo ass online for a live stream of the casting!!!
I hadn’t consider Fain’s influence on her and why she went bonkers later on. Definitely a better character to dislike as written than Gwayn.
Elaida is the rightful Amyrlin. Down with the usurper Egwene!!
Hmm, I watched tis yesterday, I though there was something wrong. There was no thumbs up (did add one) and there was no chance of leaving a comment. RUclips being RUclips I guess. ;-)
Well, I'll take my chance this time then. BTW, SPOILERS for any non-book readers but this was a red spoiler warning anyway, wasn't it?
Yeah, fortelling is NOT an exact "science" it seems as Rand is also technically a part of the royalty of Andor. Though I suppose Elaine, Galad (and Gawyn to some extent) DO have a large role to play so it still fits? Also, love to hate Elaida.
I agree that she is definitely my most hated character. Just slightly edging out Egween. That being said, I'm not very interested in hearing the opinion of the number one servant of the dark one
Love the white board. Make the White Tower Great Again.
Love the story and the part she plays in it, but I wish her end was better, it felt kind of cheap.
This may be the weirdest cast idea ever, but for some reason I keep seeing Elaida as Cate Blanchett...
To each their own, both are great actresses but to me Elaida is still Cate Blanchett.
Position's she did like that clock.
Elaida is a very hateable character, but I like her simply because she is an antagonist without being a darkfriend.
Although, seriously, can we talk about how the Red Ajah basically became the second "evil" Ajah? The only likeable character that I remember from that Ajah is Pevara, and she doesn't appear until fairly late in the story. I know she's a secondary character, but i would love an analysis on Pevara Tazanovni to balance out the Red-Ajah-hate.
The Red Ajah has always seemed to be as bad as the Black to me, I cannot stand any of the Red sisters. It honestly felt to me like Pevara was only put into the story to try and make the Red's seem less bad. Because every single Red we met before her was A) Black, B) a hateful bitch.
I agree. I like to hate her too, but I appreciate that she's mostly mistaken and not actually a dark friend.
Anna Torv would make a great Elaida
I LOVED her on Fringe. One of the best shows ever. I'd love to see her as an aes sedai, However, I wouldn't want her as Elaida. I hate Elaida too much for her to be played by someone I truly like.
Elayda is not my most hated character
Why was this video removed? I got cut off mid view
Mistake in the opening title I corrected
@@NaeBlis Ah makes sense, that J's for the reply and for the content. You made a great point about the dumbing down of Elaida, I think the idea of Gain being a corrupting influence would be perfect for show continuity.
Im curious as to why you think she was especially intelligent. There is nothing in her backstory or her actions in any point of the story that leads me to believe she was any more intelligent than any other Aes Sedai. In fact I think she makes continual mistakes and blunders throughout the series and is used as a useful idiot by the black ajah without her ever realising it. Being raised to accepted and then to the shawl so early has everything to do with willpower and strength in the one power which no one is denying she has, but little to do with intelligence that I can see.
As for her notable actions she immediately misreads her own foretelling and attaches herself to Morgase where she largely does nothing of import. She lets Rand get away from her when she first meets him and foretells how important he will be. Ask yourself this, if that was Moiraine, Siuan or Cadsuane in that position do you think Rand makes it out of the city? She is then used as a pawn by the black ajah to rip apart the tower, allows Siuan and Leanne to esape. Tries to capture Rand which ends in disaster. Tries to defeat the black tower that ends in disaster. I don't think she had a single plan that went correctly and those that partially succeeded did so because the black ajah led her along like a fool.
I can agree with most of that. She was able to figure out what was going on with Suian and Moiraine and Rand. She was rightfully skeptical of Rand as well. I wouldn’t say she was a genius by any means, but she was competent
@@NaeBlis Always interesting to see how other people view a character given the exact same information as you. I submitted the video to reddit/r/wot because I was curious how everyone else read elaida. for example I dont even give her that much credit for discovering the Siuan Moriaine plot. The main instigator for her starting to pull those threads was not some grand insight or piece of information she managed to ferret out that no one else did, It was the dumb luck ( or ta'veren nature of rand) of meeting rand and getting a foretelling of him then having Moiraine whisk him away then the second bit of dumb luck of just having been accepted over Siuan and Moiraine and rembering the relationship.
BTW I only recently got into the WOT youtube scene after starting a re-read for the upcoming series and I am really enjoying binging your videos. Looking forward to more
@@NaeBlis there is a simple explainable reason for her competence and intelligence flying out the window as soon as she is in power.
She has not enough experience wielding power as a leader and it immediately goes to her head. I have seen and experienced myself what happens when someone becomes a boss for the first time. It makes a good person intolerable and a bad person even worse. The boss eithe grows as a person and becomes a better boss or as in Elaida's case power is stripped from her never to return.
I want a hat with white, blue, green, brown, grey, yellow, white and red bands with the letters MWTGA
Ha!
She's Theresa May.
„Severe case of RBF“ 😂👍🏽
Yes, I think we all love to hate Elaida.
Nae blis is my man crush
i dont think she got stupid, i thinl she got overconfidant and complacent
So, just had a thought about the new series. I think you could condense the entire andor royal line into 2 characters, possibly 3. Elayne merges with morgase, gawyn merges with gareth byrne and galad either is cut totally or Bornhald Sr. takes his place in the story. Hear me out. There is almost no reason elayne cant be written out. What does she do that other characters couldnt do? White tower stuff? Who cares? Nymaeve and egwene are plenty for the white tower plots. Now, if you made morgase a full aes sedai, you wouldn't need elayne at all whatsoever. General audiences will not buy that Rand is such a ladies man that he can keep three women happy and all three can be okay with dating him. No chance. Galad is a pointless character that only serves as the morality of the whitecloaks, bornhald wasnt a bad guy and would probably be disgusted by what they became. Gawyn and byrne end up at the exact same places half the time, and if byrne were morgase lover, he would have motivation for dumai wells. I also think you could definately get rid of min farshaw too if you needs to. Hope all characters make the cut, but the royal line of andor are probably the easiest to cut. Thoughts?
Come on man, Galina wasn't head of the Black Ajah, that was Alviarin. You're better than this
Joseph Nicholson Thanks, Captain Pedantic. If you can do better, go make your own video.
Was going to comment the same.
@@wolf3794 Alviarin thinks to herself in book 6 or 7 that she was raised to head of black ajah by ishamael a decade or two before the story even begins. The WoT companion agrees, and says nothing about Galina being head of black ajah. Where's your information coming from?
@@wolf3794 That's interresting, but they can't both be right. They could both be wrong I guess, or head of different enclaves of black ajah.
@@wolf3794 Galina mentions in book 6 that she's on the high council, top 3 of the black ajah
She's Aes Sedai Donald Trump
Yeah, Elaida is a sad case. I think she is a homophobic lesbian who ALSO does not trust men and who hates LADY Moraine and Siuan and is so jealous of their power and their intimacy and it just poisons her. The fact that she never becomes a dark friend but gets worse and worse and worse as she is corrupted. I feel a LOT of pity for her. She is so weak in character because she has never accepted herself and projects all her self hatred onto others.
I think you’re reading too much into Fain’s influence. From other videos you have posted, you have expressed how much you enjoyed Fain as a character, but you could eliminate him after Eye of the World, and the story would basically be the same. Elaida is arrogant and supremely overconfident but all her actions are explained. In fact, from her point of you, they make sense. It is only when Sanderson takes over writing after Jordan‘s death that the character acts without any kind of rationality.
Point of view*
Can we take a moment to appreciate the parallels between Elaida (in office) and Trump (in office)? I'm not sure if that's what you were alluding to with the white board, but I think it's a fun thought experiment.
Also, judging by what happens while she is in office and taking the Seanchan accent (audiobooks) into consideration, we can expect Russians on pterodacyls to attack our White Tower soon.
The first !