Also consider the relationship between kata. Many young people in Isshinryu learn this kata as their first, spend a few years doing well with it, and then suddenly they learn sanchin, which is closely linked, and realize they have to go back and re-learn seisan all over again with the lessons from sanchin. I always love the look on their faces, because it reminds me of the shock I felt myself when it happened to me. "Wow... this is *way* deeper than I ever could have known!"
TScheisskopf, indeed, he passed from this world not long afterward. Even in these videos, he had a severe cold... at one point he even wipes his nose! ;) He was perseuded to make them for far away students and future generations. Wow am I greatful!
A lot of people learn the sequence and practice a couple times per day, but never truly master it. I would venture that you have not even seen all of the "tip of the iceberg" yet. These kata is *very* deep, and xStarlaxD's comment actually shows a lot of wisdom. (And is probably a massive understatement!) You can spend your whole life on one and everyone else will call you a master, but you still feel like you are "just okay." That is when you know you are on the right path.
JadyLester, please know that he was in "demonstration" mode. The whole point of recording him go through the kata in 1966 was so that it wouldn't be lost, and future karateka could learn from it.
Um there are also alot of onkinawans that learned isshin ryu. He made change to Kyans seisan that he thought were improvments. Tighter , quicker stances and blocks more useul in the streets. He didnt just teach American Marianes. He was very popular on the island as a karate-ka. Hence his many native students
just so you know. when he came to california to visit this dojo. he was here on vacation. he had been up the night before late partying with those who were hosting him. he performed these katas infront of a group of students and did not know that he was being recorded for the purpose of this being used as a blue print for the art he had created. he commented later on after the filming of this that he did not want it to be used for anything interms of reference. fyi
are you sure the kata should not be practiced in this way. I find it excellent and very usefull to try and do kata in such a relaxed and calm way. you can see he has kime in every move and the potential for real force should he choose. this is very difficult to achieve and maintain the abscence of tension in the body. i think he was showing somthing special.
Indeed I find such criticisms puzzling because throughout its young history, a great many Okinawan martial artists acknowledged his ability. Also, he himself told us that he was not all that creative or innovative... Perhaps some of the masters we have commenting negatively on his videos would remember the concept of henka? It's so important, I'm sure they do. The founder of Isshinryu didn't really "change" all that much, he simply used variations that were taught to him, but not often used.
@balrog919 Soo im the Grandson of the current Grand Master Ed McGrath .... my only thought is that he is performing the Kata this way so the camera will capture all of his movements... there is no way the cameras back then would capture half of his movements is he did it full intensity.
@balrog919 if you hear the backstory, this video was taken while he was kinda sick, and its been said that shimabuku didnt like being filmed doing karate. so he did it lazily to show the filmer what he felt like cause he probably didnt want to in the first place.
Iocoyogui, Primero, esto era una demostración así que los estudiantes futuros pueden mirar y aprender. En segundo lugar, él utilizaba el "shuri-te". ¡Subsistencia que aprende, buen amigo!
@balrog919 Soo im the Grandson of the current Grand Master Ed McGrath .... my thought is that he is performing the Kata this way so the camera will capture all of his movements... there is no way the cameras back then would capture half of his movements is he did it full intensity. and he is sick with the flu in this video... he specifically said he did not want to do the recording because he wasn't feeling good but everyone asked him to do it anyway so we could have a video record of him.
fighting is down to the individual not the style, furthermore a true martial artist looks at other styles to improve, or add to his skill, just as chojun miyagi did with hawaian wrestling implements such as kongoken for strengthening and gripping purposes.
it is great to hear somebody practicing isshin ryu in the "traditional" way. However I do not see sensei shimabuku turning in his grave over the varations of the moves over the years. He was a revolutionary by doing just that, by taking shorin ryu and goju ryu and streamlining it, making it more effecient and powerful. it is only natural to progress and improve (expand) the knowledge of the art. Although the style has changed over the years, it retains sensei's spirit of progression.
It was said that he was sick when these videos were taken, so this may be the reason. Plus, my sensei says that his katas were not that good looking in the first place. Lol. Even though he did develop the system.
Actually, they were very concerned with making one thing look like another, adding philosophical depth and symbolism... in fact, teachers of old generally have three to five layers, roughly called the surface, the middle, and the inner. Sure, you could say there is no mystery once you are deep within, because it all seems natural, the only right way to actually do it... But the bottom line is that my comment was aimed at outsiders looking in.
@narutouzamaki9000 Your Kyoshi is absolutely right. Bunkai is ESSENTIAL for any martial art. It isn't stepping out of the lineage of the martial art, but rather is going back to what it used to be. It is also what is used in battle and in fighting. The bunkai is what helps all martial arts come together to form the one true martial art that started thousands of years ago in India (martial arts first developed there).
@juacimm You do realize this is Grand Master Shimabuku, right? The man who invented Isshin-Ryu. Yes, it is a bit sloppy, but if you look at alot of comments you'll see that the reason for this is because he was sick and didn't like being filmed.
When you put it like that, I think I'm going to take my kata moves apart and practice them one at a time and slowly build it back till I have a much more refined technique. That way I'll be able to work out the little bugs.
Alguien que me diga porque hace el kata sin tanta contraccion muscular, tengo entendido que los kata se hacen sin tanta contraccion para que los musculos no quiten velocidad a la tecnica, pero me parece que lo hace totalmente relajado como si no estuviese peleando imaginariamente como se debe hacer creo que esta mal pero el que lo hace es nada mas y nada menos que Shimabukuro-sensei. Asi que quedo confundido
inorder to judge him, someone would have to be of a higher belt rank, heh heh. anyways I can understand what you are saying from a view point. try doing the kata exactly the way he is doing it, you will understand a little bit more. It probably does not help that there is no audio to this, so perception wise it's does not seem very effective.
Yes, but practicing fixed stances and movement gets you more used to proper technique. The more you practice it, the better the muscle memory, and the quicker you can make a move correctly in a fight. If you move quickly but incorrectly, or if you have to waste precious time thinking about doing it correctly, you're toast in a fight.
actually to learn the sequence isnt that hard but perfecting it is the problem. anyone can repeat the moves in the correct order but unless you work on the details its nowhere near perfect. ive been practicing it for a little over two years now and i know im nowhere near perfect. because its about technique not necessarily sequence. so think a bit before you criticize.
Weird, i see the opposite of what you are saying. first of all, this is a demonstration video. what good is it to learn the moves if he is doing it at least speed? he is being very slow and methodical, note his back is very tense, his steps are very balanced, he holds his knee after the kick. it is very disciplined. don't expect to see fancy van damme moves from this style. the true art of the kata is understanding the power of the basics used in combination with each other on four sides.
@balrog919 I'd say you have a Shotokanish view of Karate, which is not the traditional ( unlike JKA says on its Web). Lazy because he isnt quick and explosive? He's not too old, i don'd see many wrinkles on his face... Maybe nowadays they spoilt the true training methods? the effective ones, practicing the explosive, impressive bueautiful but sterile varieties?? Not a statement though... Just Food For though.
No offense, but this is a really basic kata. If it took you your whole life to learn it and get to an average level, I can't imagine how hard it would be for you to learn 7 more. And the 4 weapons katas.
Which is why you might be good but you will never be a truly great fighter. That's okay though... I like all the anti-traditional feelings that people have these days, and I'm not going to bother trying to help you see the truth anymore. This way, everyone is sloppy and weak, and much easier for me to beat! That way I only have to concern myself with those few who see the truth behind classical methods.
cause you dont know how it works, how analyse them for real situation. the katas are not made to use against another martial artist, karate jutsu (bujutsu not budo) it is not a sport like MMA or the others fighting sports. boxing and others sports etc.. are made to use against others MA..
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Also consider the relationship between kata. Many young people in Isshinryu learn this kata as their first, spend a few years doing well with it, and then suddenly they learn sanchin, which is closely linked, and realize they have to go back and re-learn seisan all over again with the lessons from sanchin. I always love the look on their faces, because it reminds me of the shock I felt myself when it happened to me. "Wow... this is *way* deeper than I ever could have known!"
TScheisskopf, indeed, he passed from this world not long afterward. Even in these videos, he had a severe cold... at one point he even wipes his nose! ;) He was perseuded to make them for far away students and future generations. Wow am I greatful!
A lot of people learn the sequence and practice a couple times per day, but never truly master it. I would venture that you have not even seen all of the "tip of the iceberg" yet.
These kata is *very* deep, and xStarlaxD's comment actually shows a lot of wisdom. (And is probably a massive understatement!) You can spend your whole life on one and everyone else will call you a master, but you still feel like you are "just okay." That is when you know you are on the right path.
JadyLester, please know that he was in "demonstration" mode. The whole point of recording him go through the kata in 1966 was so that it wouldn't be lost, and future karateka could learn from it.
It's interesting to watch this, and then to watch Don Nagle and Harold Long do Seisan, knowing he was their teacher.
2020 n still studying this original 😄 now with my children
Um there are also alot of onkinawans that learned isshin ryu. He made change to Kyans seisan that he thought were improvments. Tighter , quicker stances and blocks more useul in the streets. He didnt just teach American Marianes. He was very popular on the island as a karate-ka. Hence his many native students
Isshin Ryu practices the Shuri-te version of Seisan, Goju practices the Naha-te version of Seisan.
nice lil snot blow at the end
just so you know. when he came to california to visit this dojo. he was here on vacation. he had been up the night before late partying with those who were hosting him. he performed these katas infront of a group of students and did not know that he was being recorded for the purpose of this being used as a blue print for the art he had created. he commented later on after the filming of this that he did not want it to be used for anything interms of reference. fyi
are you sure the kata should not be practiced in this way. I find it excellent and very usefull to try and do kata in such a relaxed and calm way. you can see he has kime in every move and the potential for real force should he choose. this is very difficult to achieve and maintain the abscence of tension in the body. i think he was showing somthing special.
its not what the kata look that counts its that you understand the movements and principles and i bet this guy did.
Indeed I find such criticisms puzzling because throughout its young history, a great many Okinawan martial artists acknowledged his ability.
Also, he himself told us that he was not all that creative or innovative... Perhaps some of the masters we have commenting negatively on his videos would remember the concept of henka? It's so important, I'm sure they do. The founder of Isshinryu didn't really "change" all that much, he simply used variations that were taught to him, but not often used.
@balrog919 Soo im the Grandson of the current Grand Master Ed McGrath .... my only thought is that he is performing the Kata this way so the camera will capture all of his movements... there is no way the cameras back then would capture half of his movements is he did it full intensity.
@balrog919 if you hear the backstory, this video was taken while he was kinda sick, and its been said that shimabuku didnt like being filmed doing karate. so he did it lazily to show the filmer what he felt like cause he probably didnt want to in the first place.
Iocoyogui, Primero, esto era una demostración así que los estudiantes futuros pueden mirar y aprender. En segundo lugar, él utilizaba el "shuri-te". ¡Subsistencia que aprende, buen amigo!
@balrog919 Soo im the Grandson of the current Grand Master Ed McGrath .... my thought is that he is performing the Kata this way so the camera will capture all of his movements... there is no way the cameras back then would capture half of his movements is he did it full intensity. and he is sick with the flu in this video... he specifically said he did not want to do the recording because he wasn't feeling good but everyone asked him to do it anyway so we could have a video record of him.
fighting is down to the individual not the style, furthermore a true martial artist looks at other styles to improve, or add to his skill, just as chojun miyagi did with hawaian wrestling implements such as kongoken for strengthening and gripping purposes.
@balrog919 its cause he was sick and didnt like being filmed.
it is great to hear somebody practicing isshin ryu in the "traditional" way. However I do not see sensei shimabuku turning in his grave over the varations of the moves over the years. He was a revolutionary by doing just that, by taking shorin ryu and goju ryu and streamlining it, making it more effecient and powerful. it is only natural to progress and improve (expand) the knowledge of the art. Although the style has changed over the years, it retains sensei's spirit of progression.
It was said that he was sick when these videos were taken, so this may be the reason. Plus, my sensei says that his katas were not that good looking in the first place. Lol. Even though he did develop the system.
Aha! This is the kata I've been looking for! He didn't seem very into it, did he?
This version is closest to Funakoshi's Seisan, which he later altered and re-named "Hangetsu".
Actually, they were very concerned with making one thing look like another, adding philosophical depth and symbolism... in fact, teachers of old generally have three to five layers, roughly called the surface, the middle, and the inner. Sure, you could say there is no mystery once you are deep within, because it all seems natural, the only right way to actually do it... But the bottom line is that my comment was aimed at outsiders looking in.
@narutouzamaki9000 Your Kyoshi is absolutely right. Bunkai is ESSENTIAL for any martial art. It isn't stepping out of the lineage of the martial art, but rather is going back to what it used to be. It is also what is used in battle and in fighting.
The bunkai is what helps all martial arts come together to form the one true martial art that started thousands of years ago in India (martial arts first developed there).
@juacimm You do realize this is Grand Master Shimabuku, right? The man who invented Isshin-Ryu. Yes, it is a bit sloppy, but if you look at alot of comments you'll see that the reason for this is because he was sick and didn't like being filmed.
When you put it like that, I think I'm going to take my kata moves apart and practice them one at a time and slowly build it back till I have a much more refined technique. That way I'll be able to work out the little bugs.
@balrog919 No in fact he is so awesome that this video is actually being played at 1/3 of the speed it was recorded. Eh? Eh? Eh?
Alguien que me diga porque hace el kata sin tanta contraccion muscular, tengo entendido que los kata se hacen sin tanta contraccion para que los musculos no quiten velocidad a la tecnica, pero me parece que lo hace totalmente relajado como si no estuviese peleando imaginariamente como se debe hacer creo que esta mal pero el que lo hace es nada mas y nada menos que Shimabukuro-sensei. Asi que quedo confundido
inorder to judge him, someone would have to be of a higher belt rank, heh heh. anyways I can understand what you are saying from a view point. try doing the kata exactly the way he is doing it, you will understand a little bit more. It probably does not help that there is no audio to this, so perception wise it's does not seem very effective.
anyone know where i can find instructions for standard? or a good video of standard? that's be really helpful :)
Yes, but practicing fixed stances and movement gets you more used to proper technique. The more you practice it, the better the muscle memory, and the quicker you can make a move correctly in a fight. If you move quickly but incorrectly, or if you have to waste precious time thinking about doing it correctly, you're toast in a fight.
actually to learn the sequence isnt that hard but perfecting it is the problem. anyone can repeat the moves in the correct order but unless you work on the details its nowhere near perfect. ive been practicing it for a little over two years now and i know im nowhere near perfect. because its about technique not necessarily sequence. so think a bit before you criticize.
Kata with no kime = dance.
Weird, i see the opposite of what you are saying. first of all, this is a demonstration video. what good is it to learn the moves if he is doing it at least speed? he is being very slow and methodical, note his back is very tense, his steps are very balanced, he holds his knee after the kick. it is very disciplined. don't expect to see fancy van damme moves from this style. the true art of the kata is understanding the power of the basics used in combination with each other on four sides.
Wow thats wrong. This is one of my favorit kata and he uh... did it wrong. In the very beginning i could tell this guy didnt know what he was doing.
Considering he founded Isshin-Ryu I'd say you're probably doing it wrong. Kata's change over time.
@balrog919 I'd say you have a Shotokanish view of Karate, which is not the traditional ( unlike JKA says on its Web).
Lazy because he isnt quick and explosive? He's not too old, i don'd see many wrinkles on his face...
Maybe nowadays they spoilt the true training methods? the effective ones, practicing the explosive, impressive bueautiful but sterile varieties??
Not a statement though... Just Food For though.
I hate fixed stances and movement..
Bruce Lee said be and flow like water..
things in real fighting change on a dime..
No offense, but this is a really basic kata. If it took you your whole life to learn it and get to an average level, I can't imagine how hard it would be for you to learn 7 more. And the 4 weapons katas.
Which is why you might be good but you will never be a truly great fighter. That's okay though... I like all the anti-traditional feelings that people have these days, and I'm not going to bother trying to help you see the truth anymore. This way, everyone is sloppy and weak, and much easier for me to beat! That way I only have to concern myself with those few who see the truth behind classical methods.
cause you dont know how it works, how analyse them for real situation. the katas are not made to use against another martial artist, karate jutsu (bujutsu not budo) it is not a sport like MMA or the others fighting sports. boxing and others sports etc.. are made to use against others MA..
Kata is a waste of time.