Talking Turtledove: The Atlantis Series
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- Опубликовано: 1 июн 2024
- Time for @EmperorTigerstar and I to talk about Turtledove. An annual tradition. We decided this time to use a more laid back format.
Check out his video about 'The Two Georges' • Talking Turtledove: Th...
Chapters:
00:00 Intro
01:43- What Causes This
03:13 Birds
05:39- English Colonization
06:34- Boredom
10:00 Radcliffe
13:50 Turtledove's Writing
15:37 Repeating
18:00- Oh Turtledove
21:00 A Wasted Premise
Everyone honk for all of the honkers that died to form Atlantis.
Honk 😭
Honk
Honk 😢
honk 😢
honk 😥
Turtledove's greatest sin is creating incredible scenarios only to just change the names of things and do the exact same things in history.
The biggest difference is that the United States of Atlantis has two consuls instead of a President; which like the Roman ones can veto the other's actions. Which due to deadlock is what leads to the final book's massive slave revolt occurring instead of the civil war.
Another much smaller difference is there is no equivalent to the Battle of New Orleans in early 1815 due to the shorter distance meaning the news of the peace treaty actually reaches the British forces before the battle could start.
Yep. The Worldwar series with the CSA going to war with the USA/German alliance got guiltier and guiltier of that as the series went on.
It’s such a sadness that this is a reoccurring thing.
@@herknorth8691 The "Southern Victory" one? The Confederacy? Literally the Weimar Republic/Nazi Germany...
The invasion of the Union? Literally Operation Barbarosa (wasn't the battle of Pittsburgh blatantly Stalingrad?)
African Americans? Oh you know who...
Jake Featherston? Oh you know who...
He blocked me on Twitter. He was saying "I don't want to go back to the way things were when I was a kid" in response to some Republican rhetoric and listed the particulars. I said "when I was I kid, most of those problems you mentioned were solved or about to be. " Typical self-centered boomer.
I love how Tigerstar's first reaction is "What if we took the 13 colonies, and pushed them somewhere else?"
“That sounds just crazy enough… TO GET US ALL KILLED!”
Probably what Turtledove thought
Well he is a cat
@@merrittanimation7721 “PUSH!”
*the crust of the earth crumbles as giant landmasses move*
Totally agree
"Don't go harass Turtledove over this"
I'm pretty sure for some people it's news that he's still alive
It isn't news if you're on Twitter.
Didn’t realize he was still alive honestly
Cody should do his own take on this scenario.
Agreed.
Please!!
Absolutely. This map deserves better than this story.
I could've sworn he did?
Nevermind that was lumeria and the Pacific continent lol
Alot of turtledove books boil down to "wouldnt it be weird if this happened" but having nothing else to say beyond that
And we love him for it
Totally accurate description
Those "honkers" aren't emu's, they are Canada Geese that have achieved final form and learned to chill
Lies! Geese would never chill! They would be super cassowarys that would kick everything to death!
Thanks for the nightmares.
Oh god, I need to photoshop that and send it to my friend that hates geese.
@@Melggart you underestimate the power of their final form. They have murdered EVERYTHING on the continent that could threaten them, and then to avoid extinctioning themselves developed a form of super-meditation similar to Vulcans such that they retain all of their excessive aggression while also appearing to be chill until they are attacked
@@Ms.Pronounced_Name Every 7 years they must endure the honk farr.
A Cody/Tigerstar bookclub is the most wholesome direction this channel could've gone
Yeah, more of this please.
@@STFUGOOGLE420Americans try not to bring politics into everything challenge *impossible*
@@STFUGOOGLE420...You're using "liberal buzzword" as a meaningless buzzword. How very meta.
@selestialcooltube5482 ummm actually speaking English is a liberal buzzword because they speak English too
@@STFUGOOGLE420 That's not what the means, lol.
Not Wholesome: Bernie Sanders demanding universal healthcare
Wholesome: a puppy trying to drink from a sprinkler, two friends having a lighthearted chat about a book that was too dumb to take seriously
Those Ohio pirates honestly sound like the most interesting part of this book series.
Finally the flag being a pendant makes sense
Cody should totally do a story on that since he is from Ohio.
@@sharky_luv What if Ohio was a coastal state has so much potential since it would reshape the entire state's climate and geography
That depends upon how much you like other stories about pirates. That section is very similar to the piracy in OTL Caribbean, including the focus of that portion of the first book (how the pirates got evicted from their strongest strongholds.)
A costal Ohio with pirates? It could have been such an awesome series!
You know, given that an advanced civilization on Atlantis is a pretty major part of the Atlantis mythos, you would think Turtledove would do something with it. Like, imagine settlers coming to Atlantis but encountering natives with better weapons and having to negotiate/trick the Atlanteans into giving them land, rather than by using force.
Or, you could have settlers encounter the descendants of the Atlantean civilization who suffered a cataclysmic event and have reverted back to more primitive ways, but still have access to some of their older tech that they worship as gods. As the Europeans come to Atlantis, they realize the potential of these artifacts as weapons and try to seize them, thus causing the natives to try and recover as much tech as they can, resulting in an arms race.
Or if you want to go the route of "13 colonies but as an island" have the ancestors of the anglo saxons settle there and when Europe discovers it the super advanced civilisation is essencially America
Like a United States that came up with all it's stuff on it's own and has no recollection of Old World history
I was thinking you could do something with the birds. They have some goop that spurs massive industrialization. Atlantis becomes this disgusting, polluted and sick country, come to realize it’s kinda 1984-North Korea type thing. The rest of the world has moved on and changed.
@@Zman44444
I like it! I think North Korea may be too exaggerated evil though
Maybe Atlantis becomes a stagnant "Victorian Britain" kind of country
With all the racism, social darwinism and pollution(like you said) that comes with it and ultimately faces the same fate the Qing Dynasty did in our timeline, which would be pretty ironic, ending up nostalgic about the "good old times" when it was more like Early America and cursing it's own fate as the rest of the world advances
@@ale-xsantos1078 I think you n I could make a fucking banger DnD campaign.
I was thinking of Dishonored. How fucked that world was, mixed with IngSoc.
Some gross mix of them both.
Are we about to be best friends?
@@Zman44444
Well I love me some D&D so we sure could come up with something! Never tried a 1984 one but that sure sounds fun
The lack of humans seems incredible contrived given how close Atlantis is to the Caribbean. Also, did Turtledove never hear about how vidal Native American goods were to the first colonies. Corn, tobacco, and furs were the first American exports.
That or natives who were ship wrecked Europeans, whose ship got blown out to sea and couldn't make it back.
The number of people who seem determined to completely write the native americans out of american history is too damned high. It happens often enough that I feel like there has to be some kind of fantasy that a certain kind of person has that leads them to continually want to see history this way.
@@purplecat4977 I mean, yeah. The motivation should be obvious. Wiping out the native americans is THE original sin of the formation of the country, so imagining a "more perfect" america that doesn't require genocide for its formation is definitely appealing to people who like america and don't like genocide.
@@Snooder Yeah, I can see where the motivation might come from for someone to want to reimagine the founders of the US as not having the blood on their hands that, historically, they do. Seen from that light, leaving the native americans off "atlantis" is inexcusable from more than just a 'oh come on, Cuba is RIGHT THERE' perspective. I've heard enough about Turtledove from enough people that I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but here we are.
@@Snooder I always find that odd. It's not like people in the 'Old World' try to imagine their history without the people they genocided. It' not like Europeans imagine Celts were never all over and got genocided by their Latin and then Germanic ancestors. Why do Americans think they are so special as though they were the first people to wipe another people out to take their land? Everyone did it, it's not that special. It's honestly just more 'American Exceptionalism' that Americans beside thinking they are the GREATEST also think they are THE WORST.
Turtledove's got the work ethic of a determined crackfiend, but has all the literary sense of a crackfiend.
Assassin Creed: Atlantis would just be Radcliffe vs. Radcliffe.
Assassin’s Creed games set in Turtledove novels would be pretty hilarious. Every NPC talks the same and there are killer birds.
i would pay for an Assasins Creed: Atlantis game
@@gaymermomentI'm pretty sure that's one of the DLC for Assassin's Creed Odyssey.
No the assassins would be sent from another country to try to depose the templars who have created the Radcliffe hegemony over the continent.
If there were a continent in the middle of the Atlantic, it would’ve likely been discovered during the Bronze Age. The maritime route to Britain was a popular voyage to get the component metals for bronze; and while it wasn’t just a “single voyage”, it would be likely that during the Atlantic leg of the journey, one of the ships would’ve stumbled upon the continent. If not during the Bronze Age, it would’ve been the Greeks or Phoenicians, and if not them, it most definitely would’ve been the Romans, as they got a little less shy with venturing out of the Mediterranean to have some trade routes along Europe’s Atlantic coast.
Especially since the Azores may have had seasonal settlements. Considering that Greenland was colonized during the medieval period and Newfoundland was touched, how wouldn’t a major continent in the middle of the Atlantic not be touched?
I'd like it to be the Phoenicians, because that would be a story we haven't heard before, beyond a few fringe theories. Everyone else is kind of 'been there, done that'.
Considering that there's some vague evidence that Vikings and maybe even Phoenicians made it all the way to the Azores before the Portuguese did, I wouldn't be surprised.
@@Zephyr_ZeitgeistImagine a Cartage-like state Where Phoenicans survive and continue to develop their own civilazition.
Connect Africa, Meditrrenia and West Europe to each other through trade. (This is just Portugal btw now I realized that.) Compete with Portugal and Spanish Kingdoms. Maybe
even establish trade post and colonize stuff
Thats way too far for the Phoenicians to discover it. Britain is very close from the French coast, you can see the cliffs of dover from Calais. This would be a days, if not weeks long trip in the basically void. No way anyone makes such a trip and the boats of the time weren't adapted for such a trip
However it would definetly be discovered and inhabited by the natives who made it to Brazil, especially since the Caribbean got moved too
A funny random thing, i study ornithology for college + post grad and been a birder since i was a kid, so i choose my favorite bird Turtledove as user name in most social platform or game that i use and play
and quite a lot of people think i choose this name because i am a fan of Harry Turtledove's book to the point that i actually read a few of his work
Based on that map, I can't figure out why it took so long for people to find this landmass? I mean, the eastern part of this "island" is closer to Europe than the Canary Islands in real life. There were people fishing off the Grand Banks long before the "age of exploration." The proximity of "Floridatlantis" to the Caribbean is still close enough for there to be Arawak all over them.
it took people until about 1450 to discover the Azores
If I had to describe Turtledove in a single sentence:
"Cocaine is a helluva drug"
Like Stephen King?
I susoect this series was part of the "paying for my childrens college tuition" writings
I love the way Cody draws Tigerstar in his own style, very boop-able Nose.
Also heck yeah I watch the Hell out of your Atlantis scenario, especially if you include what animals would survive on this new continent
I decided to check out Southern Victory in high school because of the videos you guys made on it. These videos are a better way to experience Turtledove than reading Turtledove. Dare I say it, Cody is the far more inventive worldbuilder and theorizer.
I feel some of Turtledove’s ideas are pretty neat, like the Race from Worldwar are one of my favorite alien races.
The man with the iron heart is the only one with characters that are actually interesting
The World World Series is good
I liked Southern Victory, at least it had some original ideas for a kinda hackneyed what-if. At least the South isn't just the simplistic bad guy all the way through. And a WW1 front went right through my hometown! They could have used prairie dogs to undermine enemy trenches; Harry really missed the boat there.
It’s always a good day when Cody uploads a brand-new video
Indeed
Yes
Its a *GREAT* day liveing
Who you gonna vote for in the atlantean election of 2024? I am gonna vote for radcliff but radcliff also has some good points
No joking I do wonder how Turtledove would implement post civil war history into Atlantis.
I dunno, Radcliffe seems like he’s got a good shot as a dark horse third-party candidate. Reminds me a lot of Theodore Radcliffe and the Bull Honker Party way back when
@@spaceemperorspar4791And Radcliffe feels good as the fourth party man,do you know he is the great grandson of Franklin D Radcliffe!
Imagine a reality in which turtledove never wrote these books
I would be sad. I would miss the Southern Victory/TL-191 series that gave to the world a glimpse of what a Germany-aligned USA would look like...
I think another commenter already mentioned this in the Alt history iceberg vid but if these books were never written, Turtledove's children would have been in a massive debt of student loans.
@theotherohlourdespadua1131 And invading Space Raptors stopping World War II.
I can't be the only one who thought giant honkers were something else.
I thought they came in pairs
They outcompeted the lesser badonkers
I hope this is an ongoing series. I love the scenarios, but God is Turtledove's writing horrid. It's honestly an inspiration. If this can get published, I might one day, also get published.
Oh yeah we’re going into the largest naval battle in history.
Oh wait no, you’re going to just read about it afterwards.
Like Jesus, would it kill him to actually write action that isn’t awkward sex between the middle-aged widow and old yet somewhat virile man that is definitely not an author insert that appears in every goddamn series.
I wonder what inspired Turtledove to come up with these wacky situations
Achohol
@@ericboom1712 Alcohol powered fever dreams.
Money, this man, put 3 girls through college for history degrees. If he has an idea, he's making a story he doesn't have a chance to be to choosy.😂
*choice
Well Turtledove was inspired to write Guns of the South after reading a letter from his friend Judith Tarr where she was complaining about her new book having a terrible cover and saying that it was “as anachronistic as Robert E Lee with an uzi”.
Cody this is the brainrot I needed 😂 thank you. Also seems like New Orleans ended up in Atlantis 🎉
New Orleans may be named after Orleans which is named after Emperor Aurelian, but he ain’t gonna restore shit.
This is still less brainrot than the Pacific Rim 2 video that's inevitably coming to that other channel.
I love how this video is half Tigerstarr's length because, despite this being trilogy and the other is a single book, very little of substance actually happens. 😆
The Man with the Iron Heart is the best-written what-if by Turtledove, IMO. All the characters have a purpose and the scenario was captivating.
RIP heydrich 🙏🙏🙏
When I realized that _Warhammer Fantasy_ made a better version of Atlantis, I knew this was going to be fun. xD
By Aenaerion, it will be done!
@@Klishar122 Damn it, why does everyone forget about Caledor? X/
Can't wait to watch, Guns of the South (South African apartheid racists hijack a time machine to go back to the Civil War to give the Confederates AK-47s) was my first exposure to alternate history fiction as a kid. Didn't read too many of his other books but that one was fun
World War and Southern Victory are whacky fun.
I know Cody mentioned that before; but, that’s the funniest concept I’ve ever heard.
How is that real, I thought that was a joke but I googled it and it actually happened.
"Guns of the South" was dope. Confederate AK-47's in 1864; it was interesting. I liked this alternate history.
Wait this wasn't just a joke? Wtf
Can you do a video on What if Sahul and zealandia never split?
Imagine that the forest trees and imagine the east mountains separate the great deserts also aboriginals would probably control the west aka (Australia) also the dutch could probably colonize if not imagine the moai making Polynesian kingdoms or ww2 were the Japanese fight between deserts jungles and tundra Al in 1 place.
Yes
Or you could do Sahul, Zealandia, AND Antarctica.
Or if Sahul and sundaland never went underwater
I wonder if they could also do a scenario on if my Mom and Dad never split.
I think the reason Turtledove dwells so much on American history and the Civil War in particular is that there's a large contigent of alternative history fans, especially older fans of the genre, who really enjoy narratives where the CSA are the good guys and the USA are the bad guys.
Ah, he must be popular with whatifalthist's fanbase then
@@Oldass_Deadass_dumbass_channelirony of Cody once doing a video with that guy, and he ends up going too far
Yeah but isn't one of Turtledove's two biggest novel sets about the Victorious South becoming Worse Nazis? I wouldn't think that crowd would be big on buying his books.
@@SanguineQuest the ones that don't like Nazis probably not.
On the subject of writers who are all "Hey, I made a cool X, time to make a bare-bones story to show it off," L.E. Modesitt is very much that way. Comes up with a magic system like "what if actual musical notes were spells, and someone invents harmonics," then makes a story for that idea to live in.
How good is that story by the way? Because that idea sounds really fun
@@isaacorr3180 It's definitely fun! The story is pretty standard, but not badly made by any means. Red Robin hamburger fiction.
@@valritz1489 oh cool what's the name of the story
@@isaacorr3180 The Spellsong Cycle, first book The Soprano Sorceress
@@valritz1489 I'll check it out thanks
i actually reread the whole _Atlantis_ trilogy in early 2021 as a part of a dedicated effort to do more recreational reading. i DID still like it, but not enough to want to keep them (still need to find a new home for my copies).
and yeah, parallelism and repetitive narration are definitely Turtledove's biggest weaknesses as a writer--i noticed in _Atlantis_ in particular that he had characters remark on honkers not being as big or as common as they used to be multiple times, but i'm also currently rereading _In the Presence of Mine Enemies_ and it regularly reiterates that the characters are Jews hiding in plain sight in a victorious Nazi Germany. (and, since i originally wrote this comment, reiterating nearly every detail of the daily commute of two important characters--as a writer myself, i would've boiled it down to some variation of "their usual commute" and only noted when it was different, including for exposition about things happening around them.) and the less said about Sam Carsten in _Timeline-191_ the better.
"The Basque are smelly. The Basque have a weird language."
-Cody, 2023
Please make your own version of this idea. I'd watch that.
Repeating himself is a Turtledove classic. How many times did we hear about Sam Karsten's weakness to the sun and his use of "zinc-oxide lotion", or about Clarence Potter's accent, or whatever else he is fixated on at the moment. Its like he sketches his characters around defnining gimmicks and reminds the reader of those gimmicks as a replacement for actual characterization.
I swear I thought Sam's unusually pale skin would be some sort of important detail, with how many times he brought it up. But nothing happens.
Also can we talk about his obsession with giving detail accounts of what a character has for every single meal of the day?
@@danielgibson2604Actually,I understand that and like it,because remember,how good you eat correlates with how good the standard of living is ,for example,Chester Martin often complains about always eating noodles and cabbage after the Great Depression.
@@ahorribledude9550Probably not gonna get a response for this, but it does kind of have a pay off. At the end of the book he picks off what he thinks is a mole, but is most likely skin cancer from spending so much time in the sun. Turtledove gave him cancer, just because lol.
You guys should have a podcast together on alternate history scenarios and looking at others work.
Strangely enough there was those that was invested in the Washingtons after George...they was just mostly non-Americans writers that thought there would be a royal family style thing in which we would keep an eye on his bloodline
My high-school self’s two favorite history channels in one video? Is this a crossover episode?
They have ding this before too right?
@@sarasamaletdin4574 yeah they have I’m pretty sure
Theres another alternative series I like its called 1632 or the ring of fire series its written by Eric Flint and David Weber. It takes a west Virginia u.s. town from the year 2000 and throws them into the 1600s right in the middle of Germany during the thirty years war. Its pretty good 💯
It's always great to see some love for the 1632 series. It hasn't got the attention it deserves.
Yeah I think it got a lot less attention in the ice berg video. He made it out as one simple book when it actually is just a book in a 20+ series of book. Some of them are literally fan fiction that the OG author approved and edited to make it in line with the OG’s lore
@@board-qu9iu I always liked how Eric Flint did that. It was pretty cool of him to let people in on his series and even have some permanent and important effect on it.
The original book was good, and there was an adequate story or two later, but overall the series is subpar.
@@lego007guym8 true even if it means the quality can very significantly. There is a book you will probably enjoy regardless of if you don’t like the series overall. Sad he died somewhat recently
Turtledove’s best work is when he goes all wacky with it
Please make your own video about this idea, there’s so much potential with it
I do think his alternate histories are more american focused because its where the market sells alot. I do am finishing a Atlantis novel and realised that falling into historical fantasy dosen't open a very wide market.
Cody , Ive got a few scenarios for you.
1).What if India began liberalization and industrialization in the 50s instead of the 90s ? How would this affect china as the west can find cheap labour in India , a decade or two earlier than the Chinese cheap labour. What other butterflies would it lead to ? How developed would India be today with 40 more years of economic growth?
2). What if the world of 'The Peshawar Lancers ' by S.M Stirling was real ?
3). What if north India became completely or majority islamic by 1900 or earlier ???
Pls make a video on any of these if you are interested
Idea: What if Allende stayed in power in Chile?
Good luck with that cody only care from america and his boring state
Socialist Venezuela in South America…..
Listening to you both talk about these two stories honestly given me a confidence boost for my own Alternate History setting and stories that I've been working on here and there. Since at least my stories are about characters doing things like being a detective dithing this would, instead of being a device that's there just to say, "Wow, insert world event just happened."
I was part of a community art project that had this theme, and it was WAY more creative than just some geese
"In Fourteen-hundred and fifty-two, Kersauzon discovered someplace new."
I read this series and it was a C+. It was good for killing time.
Honestly, I would listen to a podcast with just Cody and Tigerstar talking about crazy alternate history stories with chill music in the background
I love Turtledove. Among my enemies is by far my favorite book he made. Starts a lil slow but with a very interesting premise and the end literally made my heart race.
You mean " In the presence of mine enemies"?
@@ahorribledude9550 yep
The thing about Harry Turtledove is that if there isn’t a real life or historical example, he doesn’t put it in his books, which does mean they are more dull, but it does make them more believable than many other situations and events in other books about alternative history. An example would be that in a book called After the Fall, where a WW2 German officer gets sent into a magical and medieval America where Native Americans are fighting colonialism from knights. The officer later ends up helping the Native kingdom (yes they learned a few cultural and technological things) who captured him and he figures out that dragon scales can deflect magic. In pretty much any other story the protagonist would end up joining a quest to get the dragon scales from enemy territory, but it was actually gone off page by another group of Natives who simply paid the knights for the opportunity to gather what the knights thought of as useless Dragon scales in their territory (all of the dragons where long dead too).
Excellent post. Thanks for the quality content as always!
Turtle dove sounds like a guy who had great novels in the beginning of his career and then quickly ran out of Ideas past Aliens invading during WW2 and that godawful The War that came early.
6:46 I've noticed this with a few modern authors I used to enjoy.
The way they give characters differences is with quirks or demeanors, but all thoughts and knowledge remains identical.
"Cone of Arc", "Alternate History Hub", "Emperor Tiger Star" and "Explained with Bad Doodles" all release a Video within the same hour ? .... is this the end of the world ....let me check my pulse
I've waited a long time for this! 🧿🧿🧿
My mom took an American history class in college and her professor was a big Turtledove fan.
Man, this is chill af, I love it
We NEED a collab with possible history
They never will collab with a right winger, that would be a big no no to there liberal audience 😂
@@STFUGOOGLE420cody aint a liberal.
@@brayanvelez2517 yeah but 90% of his audience is
@@STFUGOOGLE420 So? I consider myself a liberal but that doesn’t mean I suddenly don’t like they’re content
@@thebobbaconsshow1685 if he brought a right winger onto his page he would be cancelled by his audience and demonitized by youtube so he will never do it. Even if he isnt a liberal he definitely sold out to them
I grow to love video like this. Just people talk together and smooth music in the background, please do more
Modern Turtledove breaks my heart. He actually did a few bangers back in the day... 😭💔❤️🩹😿
Regarding the Byzantinuim-inspired fantasy series : he actually wrote like ten of them. I've read most of them and they're all much better than his alternate history stuff.However, they in fact did not sell as well as his other books, so he stopped writing them around 2005.
(The series is the Videssos cycle if anyone's interested )
Turtledove's short stories are his best writing. His Videssos books are pretty good.
Tigerstar is spot-on when describing Turtledove coming up with the story to justify a cool scenario. The whole setting is because of his short story "Audubon in Atlantis", where the premise is essentially, "What if John James Audubon did Birds of America but with moas and Haast's eagles?"
Loved this fireside chat, thanks
A vid on if the Sino-Soviet split never happened or was patched up in the 70s would be amazing.
A Turtledove novel is essentially a poorly coded Matrix; got people waking up day and night.
Thanks for the awesome content and great videos!!
This was a nice chill video, hope we see some more like it in the future. Also you totally should consider making your own scenario based on this premise, that would be real cool.
Rest in peace honkers
Can you make a video on the topic of "If the Hollow Earth is real?" ?
Imagine if we had something like Pellucidar from Tarzan
I feel like every Turtledove trilogy could be a single slender volume if he would only stop repeating himself ad nauseam. He writes in a pulpy serialized style, as if he expects each chapter to be read a month after the last so he has to catch you up on everything that happened only a few pages earlier.
I love the more casual and laid back tone this has. Really does feel like your around a campfire just chilling and talking :3
I hope you do more of these
Please make more of these!
Also a Collab with Possible History would be amazing.
Cody's criticism of Harry Turtledove's Alt-Hist is similar to mine: in his books, history has a momentum that forces certain events to happen in much the same way as they did in our timeline. For example (Spoilers, I guess) - in the Timeline 118 series, although the Confederacy survives for nearly a century, this doesn't stop World War 1 happening in 1914, the Great Depression in the 1930s and World War II in 1939. For some huge geopolitical changes, it seems for the most part he's just rewriting history with different names.
Alternate History as a fictional genre only really gets interesting when we allow history to follow logically from the events that happen in the alternate timeline rather than assuming as you put it that history has a momentum or a mind of its own. If all we're doing is relabelling actual history it's just boring
It’s timeline 191
I would really enjoy watching Cody go nuts with this concept. I think he'd come up with something really cool!!
Glad to see another scenario from Harry turtledove being presented by my two favorite people
I heard that Mel Gibson is planning on making a movie based on these books. He would be playing Radcliff.
Which one?
Would have been cool to see people in the story tame the honkers and ride them into a battle. What wasted potential!
Stone Spring is a similar alternate history series where it feels like "Time" is the main character. Three books about doggerland not sinking and I wanted my time back by the end...
Agent of Byzantium is my favorite Turtledove book. It's set in an alternative 14th century where Mohammad became a Christian saint causing the conquests of Justinian to be longer lasting, leading to the Roman Empire making an almost complete recovery. The main character is a Byzantine spy who goes on missions for the Empire. I actually really enjoyed that one. The Lost Legion series is really good too. That's the one about the Roman Legion that gets transported to an alternate universe where they become mercenaries for the Empire of Videssos, which is based heavily on the Byzantine Empire
If a Radcliffe led the uprising, it is conceivable there was a Radcliffe leading troops against the rebellion. Therefore, the Radcliffes would've come out on top no matter who won.
Nice idea for a video collaboration
It also has more depth than the usual format
I haven't watched the video yet, just wanted to say off the bat that I love this series.
Turtledove books truly are an enigma 😂
Turtledove now sounds like he peaked as a creator too early, and coasted on those successes ever since.
"2 Georges" sounds so much more interesting than Atlantis. Will I watch this anyway? Yes.
Get this…. you could watch both.
@@GlizzyGoblin757 Mind blowethed
Loved that series...
Bretons discover the new world!!! Bretons discover the new world!!! (O_O)
Imagine that. Bretons colonise Atlantis - Nouvelle-Bretagne? Super-Grande-Bretagne?
Breton becomes the official language of this new land, the Gwenn-ha-du becomes the flag of the United States of Atlantis !!!
Why didn't you do that, Mr Turtledove???
I like Turtledove’s minimalistic approach to his books and characters. Real people are people of habit, and they will do and say things over and over again. It’s a specific cup of alternative tea that I appreciate.
I love these types of vids
holy crap the way the protagonist family was brought up, I was half expecting the Radcliffe bloodline battling against some English blond vampire through the generations...
Was there a Daniel.... Radcliff??? And did he become Harry Potter in this world as well????
I wonder if harry potters author got canceled by the 41% in thus timeline too😂
@@STFUGOOGLE420god, you scum just gotta muck up everything you possible can, dont you? Just gotta bring up how much you cant fucking stand anyone different than you any and every opportunity possible, no matter how irrelevant it is.
Rhode island is finally an island
I happened upon a copy of The Two Georges not too long ago and bought it since the concept seemed neat.
I like it when you two collab.
The Radcliffs are Joestars and płot happens becouse od JoJo logic