Idk if I'm the only one that much prefers these talkshows in this format rather than in the studio, but I'm glad they've been "stuck" doing this stuff virtually since worlds.
This overlay looks so clean, man. It has an authoritative quality that matches Monte and Thorin's experience so well. It figuratively is putting their words into stone.
Easy to see after this conversation how someone with Solo's mindset ends up on NA's shitlist. He seems to actually have the mindset needed in NA to form a competent team. Honorary EU player in my mind.
Tbh every other game I play people are way more brutally honest and aggressive in mindset something about the league of legends players in Na are very soft
It is exactly the feeling I got. The LCS is planned and directed from above. While in the LEC there is a group, where everyone thinks about the common goal of producing a great show and always look for improvement. In the LCS there is the Riot culture. The LEC mostly independent now and they developed their own culture. Well who would have guessed the LEC will do better?
If you guys are going to do another one, I think it would be entertaining to watch the two of you react to the arts and rate your personal taste on them
on the SNL comparison for broadcast, once i come to know a cast or just have a favorite couple of actors, i even come to enjoy the sketches/jokes that dont land to a certain extent. it can give you interesting insights on that persons process and style
I would love to see Doa on the LCS broadcast but the sad thing is i'm pretty sure the more you guys talk about him the less chance we have to see him hired, we know how riot is stubborn and doesnt listen to recommendations..
I think tactical is one of luckiest player in lcs history. He start as a rookie in a very veteran team, he got train by one of the best support in league history, and he can build confidence in competitive game before entering the arena. Playing in game house is very different from in whole bunch of audiences, especially for rookie first few game without confidence wins. I think in future tactical can become the best adc in NA.
@Thorin: Riot is not only evil. They are like Trump, evil AND dumb. But still successful. And that is the problem and the frustrating thing about it, they do not deserve their success.
I think Monte is right in that league emphasis has shifted in focus from the 2015/2016 macro style, but I think he's tunneling too much on the micro interactions. I think league macro is actually developing more like high level chess strategy. Weaker players usually talk about general tenets (play around vision, give up waves on weak side, vs "centralize your pieces", "develop and secure your king") whereas high level chess GMs base all their long-term, strategic decisions off of precise calculations of particular lines of play. Similarly, LPL teams, G2 and C9 seem to be developing map setups and movements based not only on the champs, like Monte emphasized, but also specific item/level power spikes and local numbers advantages.
The difference is and a huge part why LoL is a lot worse in terms of macro compared to back then is you can just pick a champion that happens to shove the wave faster to just make these map plays. It's not some crazy macro. Hell riot finally realized that and tried to change the mid wave interaction until they realized how big the changes could impact the overall pro league meta. Maybe you think these certain teams are doing something special but it's just the norm in LPL. The past two winners and the likely strongest team heading to worlds in TOP are using the same exact formula. Pick a shoving mid laner and use that advantage to play off the jungler to gain incremental advantages whether it's pushing a team off their tower or deep wards.
@Najawin Honestly though her interview were garbage. Not shocked LCS fans wanted her back considering they do the same for LCS washed up players who have fan support in froggen/meteos/aphro/etc
it's insane how Thorin's been in the league scene for so long yet Riot never invited him for any event. Also we want Monte back. Riot, make a public apology and let him in. He'll fix the LCS for you.
I'm pretty sure Doublelift and Bjergsen picks their own champs that's why TSM comps are whack, TSM fans are just distracted by Parth, but he's just coach for the namesake. The only reason Bjergsen plays Fiddle is to cover his inability to roam. He doesn't know roam timings like Doinb/Nisqy, so he's letting a tank sustain champ carry him. Like Asol, in S5 with Huhi literally used to roam faster. He doesn't have synergy with Spica, so he'll less likely die on a tank when he's ganked. He roamed 1 time the entire game and proceeded to int and have bad positioning every time. Fiddle also took blue every time, never gave it to Syndra, Bjergsen played a tank, but he wasn't supportive, wasn't a playmaker, he still played like a usual midlaner, not his role on Fiddle. Syndra had all the TSM gold, even though he's a bad Syndra, their hope that game was still Syndra and blue on a fking tank support Fiddle? That's like your own inting support trolling you stealing the buffs in solo queue.
can thorin say less than twenty sentences as once. everything requires the most tiresome, long winded explanations. glad to listen to the show again though, remember listening to it omw home from work like 5 years ago, thanks for the content boyz.
NA teams and players have grown way too complacent, getting fat paychecks for playing their little ARAM each week (save for c9) just sad to see compared to EU....
So do you not agree with the sentiments that they talked about in this show? Because while they would definitely agree that there are some really shit teams in the LCS (namely Dignitas and especially Immortals) , they actually seemed pretty high on teams like FLyquest, EG, TL and even GGS. And at least from what I heard from this episode, Solo is not on C9 and feels intently motivated to try to be a good player on a good team
@@scouthatesrainbows because this teams pick one style and work around that they are working hard eg is way better now, doy is testing how to be better and they really master the old "standar" 5vs5 late game team comp, tl need more time but there is hope
Anyone else just watch the intros? Sadly, LCS is such a damn dumpster fire that I can't even enjoy Monte and Thorin shitting on it for two hours, I'd rather everyone just accept NA's status as the newest wild card region so we can get more LEC/LPL focused shows.
wait why are they flaming DL's syndra? besides the stun he messed up in the first gank, his syndra wasn't bad at all. they lost because of overall comp not the way syndra was piloted lmao. like phreak said, he clicked the buttons well overall but Aphelios got gigafed, built qss early and pd later, azir is long range (still found him some fights but couldnt 1shot him cuz he is perma 2-3levels up due to being a solo laner) and he cant 1shot any of the tanks because two of them built stoneplate and the other is ornn. its not like he was syndra mid and was 3 levels on enemy adc like the champ normally would be either. That's why most people blame the draft. If there was extra dmg to add the finishing touches on the carries, tsm could have won the fights. The game definitely was not because of how DL played syndra. i really hate when "analysts" flame something for no reason because "DL cant play mages" is a fun narrative. I would have rather they stuck on what they said later which is kai'sa was a perfect pick there, i agree with that 100%. they win that game with a traditional AD with that gross fiddle frontline
Just because he is better than the first time Syndra in your iron 4 flex games doesn't mean he was good on for lcs level, also it's more about the fact he is better on normal adcs so why pick the mage
@Najawin First of all, there is barely any skill expression on syndra, so to compare to riven/ornn combos is unfair. Look at most syndras you see do well in lcs, what do they do? get a bunch of farm, press Q > E > R or R > E > Q. Sure, there can be levels to how well players do this based on how well they farmed/dodge skill shots but overall for how they pilot the abilities, it's not much skill expression and definitely isn't viewable to the average LCS viewer with the shitty spectator system. Second, everyone is CONVENIENTLY forgetting how HARD biofrost inted that game. He literally ran it, fed aphelios and made it so that he could build defensive early and get away with it (also aphelios is just op and does alot of dmg so he can afford to do so). It's already pretty hard to navigate fights vs leona/trundle/ornn as a squishy mage but when you can't even 1shot the adc there's not much skill expression there or "WOW Syndra outplay" moments to be had. He hit the buttons right like i said, in 90% of fights he ulted a priority target whether it was the azir (who was usually 2 levels ahead of him because its a solo laner) or the fed aphelios (with QSS/PD) every fight, he just couldnt 1shot them, or his team couldnt add the finishing touches of damage needed. I'm even surprised that he caught out azir a bunch of times that game which shows atleast his vision for kill opportunities is there. This is why most people blame the draft because if there was more damage those carries do die and its a closer game. I'd say DL having push the entire game, highest cs the entire game and did bully the leona/aphelios in lane does show a level of mastery to it. I distinctly remember him hitting 4 q's in a row on ignars leona in the first few seconds of laning phase which led to them having push the whole lane. He did a vod review on his stream of the game and the overall consensus of him and his chat which contained some LCS coaches and analysts that he played the game well overall, besides the first gank where he trolled. Overall, he did the highest %dmg of anyone in the game too so it's pretty disingenuous to say his syndra was bad. we judging how a player plays a champ on one skillshot now or what?
@@billyhutson Okay, that's just literally wrong in so many ways. I guess you shouldn't even bring up how snowballs work if you didn't even watch the game to see how aphelios got snowballed. First of all aphelios did not get the kill on that gank, santorin did. Aphelios at most got 50-100 gold from that assist. secondly, even if DL saves bio there, his flash is still gone. If you watch the game, you'd see the gank did not amount to anything after the kill. Bot lane was pushed and normal resets happened. This means, Bio would have still died later in the next fight where he hooked the aphelios at the perfect time of a counter gank and him + spica gave 2 kills to aphelios. This is where the real snowball happened for aphelios. Lastly, even after the first TWO ganks, DL had push and higher cs the entire laning phase. Aphelios got fed because biofrost ran it down on the aphelios throughout the game going 0/9, not because of that one stun.
Chill dude we get it dl is good on senna syndra vlad and every champ in the game. Its not his fault right? Its draft and his teammates. Why does the world only hate on dl geez
Tried to watch Thorin for a bit, was quite funny/entertaining, but kinda got bored of snakeoil salesman shtick, and 'always knowing what's wrong with something or someone', or the continues "You know what your problem is?". Years later, decide to press on the thumbnail, and literally the first thing he says.. :D
I think tactical is one of luckiest player in lcs history. He start as a rookie in a very veteran team, he got train by one of the best support in league history, and he can build confidence in competitive game before entering the arena. Playing in game house is very different from in whole bunch of audiences, especially for rookie first few game without confidence wins. I think in future tactical can become the best adc in NA.
I think tactical is one of luckiest player in lcs history. He start as a rookie in a very veteran team, he got train by one of the best support in league history, and he can build confidence in competitive game before entering the arena. Playing in game house is very different from in whole bunch of audiences, especially for rookie first few game without confidence wins. I think in future tactical can become the best adc in NA.
One of the luckiest, you forget Biofrost did start as a rookie with TSM and won like 3 split in a row afterwards. Biofrost is still the luckiest, until we see Tactical win 4 in a row. Biofrost still holds that lucky title.
![Stromae, Pomme - “Ma Meilleure Ennemie” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1F3OGIFnW1k/mqdefault.jpg)
Monte: "Welcome to the-"
Thorin: "You know what your problem is, Monte..."
Solo looks like Thorin’s long lost son
he even flames in solo Q, his long lost dad would be proud
Idk if I'm the only one that much prefers these talkshows in this format rather than in the studio, but I'm glad they've been "stuck" doing this stuff virtually since worlds.
This overlay looks so clean, man. It has an authoritative quality that matches Monte and Thorin's experience so well. It figuratively is putting their words into stone.
Glad you had solo on. Ive known for a while from his stream that he's super chill, so im happy hes being put out there more
Solo is great
Glad to see Solo get some screentime somewhere! Legitimate NA talent, Flyquest is a legit team and they look even better with him starting in LCS
Easy to see after this conversation how someone with Solo's mindset ends up on NA's shitlist. He seems to actually have the mindset needed in NA to form a competent team. Honorary EU player in my mind.
Tbh every other game I play people are way more brutally honest and aggressive in mindset something about the league of legends players in Na are very soft
Its really fun to see monte excited, and thinking about league meta and theory again. He just seems so much in his element
Really liked solo! Expresses himself very well for a player and super interesting insight!
New overlay looks dope. The banner is also amazing.
It is exactly the feeling I got. The LCS is planned and directed from above. While in the LEC there is a group, where everyone thinks about the common goal of producing a great show and always look for improvement.
In the LCS there is the Riot culture. The LEC mostly independent now and they developed their own culture.
Well who would have guessed the LEC will do better?
The inglorious bastards art work is PURE GOLD
Another fun time! Time to pull out the beer.
Me jolly jolly grog
If you guys are going to do another one, I think it would be entertaining to watch the two of you react to the arts and rate your personal taste on them
Randomly refreshing RUclips - uploaded 6 sec ago. Gold
Were the #tsmholywar contest results published somewhere? Where one can find it?
Found it: twitter.com/Thorin/status/1274315473220493313
on the SNL comparison for broadcast, once i come to know a cast or just have a favorite couple of actors, i even come to enjoy the sketches/jokes that dont land to a certain extent. it can give you interesting insights on that persons process and style
Solo seems like a brah, good luck to FLY getting that 2nd or 3rd spot for Worlds 🙏
Nice rito logo holding a knife by thorin
Really like the new clean overlay. Also, don‘t know if this was intended or not but I‘m assuming it was, really like the Flashpoint color references.
lmao that evil draft analogy at 19:18
hey guys, is there something like summoning insight, crackdown, facecheck etc. but for LEC?
wait, so what are the results of the art contest in the end? They didn't adress it, and I can't see them anywhere
Would it be a bad idea to see how bjerg would do in bot and look for another midlaner?
Yay im so early. Good to see you guys
Anyone got link to that DOa gangsters paradise ?
i like the sumoners insight
I like the new logo but damn yall dont gotta do Thorins hairline dirty like that man 😂
Montes mic volume needs to be raised to be aligned with thorins
I would love to see Doa on the LCS broadcast but the sad thing is i'm pretty sure the more you guys talk about him the less chance we have to see him hired, we know how riot is stubborn and doesnt listen to recommendations..
What happened with summoning insight and c9? Why’s it on this channel now?
U can find the answer in the last episode of SI (summing insite sorry for bad spelling) comment section
I think tactical is one of luckiest player in lcs history. He start as a rookie in a very veteran team, he got train by one of the best support in league history, and he can build confidence in competitive game before entering the arena. Playing in game house is very different from in whole bunch of audiences, especially for rookie first few game without confidence wins. I think in future tactical can become the best adc in NA.
@Thorin: Riot is not only evil. They are like Trump, evil AND dumb. But still successful. And that is the problem and the frustrating thing about it, they do not deserve their success.
Imagine calling someone dumb who is worth billions, and became a president.... he might have said dumb things, but he certainly isn't dumb
Wow I like solo I’ve been saying this all summer at 1:42:00 ish but these orgs need to start dropping this old talent that isn’t growing or learning
I think Monte is right in that league emphasis has shifted in focus from the 2015/2016 macro style, but I think he's tunneling too much on the micro interactions. I think league macro is actually developing more like high level chess strategy. Weaker players usually talk about general tenets (play around vision, give up waves on weak side, vs "centralize your pieces", "develop and secure your king") whereas high level chess GMs base all their long-term, strategic decisions off of precise calculations of particular lines of play. Similarly, LPL teams, G2 and C9 seem to be developing map setups and movements based not only on the champs, like Monte emphasized, but also specific item/level power spikes and local numbers advantages.
The difference is and a huge part why LoL is a lot worse in terms of macro compared to back then is you can just pick a champion that happens to shove the wave faster to just make these map plays. It's not some crazy macro. Hell riot finally realized that and tried to change the mid wave interaction until they realized how big the changes could impact the overall pro league meta.
Maybe you think these certain teams are doing something special but it's just the norm in LPL. The past two winners and the likely strongest team heading to worlds in TOP are using the same exact formula. Pick a shoving mid laner and use that advantage to play off the jungler to gain incremental advantages whether it's pushing a team off their tower or deep wards.
Im from Philadelphia and i have been chat restricted many times. Lol god damm
Look at the moves! Look at the plays
I had no idea solo is 27 omg
Did Ovilee get black listed or something?
@Najawin Honestly though her interview were garbage. Not shocked LCS fans wanted her back considering they do the same for LCS washed up players who have fan support in froggen/meteos/aphro/etc
it's insane how Thorin's been in the league scene for so long yet Riot never invited him for any event. Also we want Monte back. Riot, make a public apology and let him in. He'll fix the LCS for you.
In EU supports off-role all the time. Mostly while locking Singed and running down mid :)
I'm pretty sure Doublelift and Bjergsen picks their own champs that's why TSM comps are whack, TSM fans are just distracted by Parth, but he's just coach for the namesake. The only reason Bjergsen plays Fiddle is to cover his inability to roam. He doesn't know roam timings like Doinb/Nisqy, so he's letting a tank sustain champ carry him. Like Asol, in S5 with Huhi literally used to roam faster. He doesn't have synergy with Spica, so he'll less likely die on a tank when he's ganked.
He roamed 1 time the entire game and proceeded to int and have bad positioning every time. Fiddle also took blue every time, never gave it to Syndra, Bjergsen played a tank, but he wasn't supportive, wasn't a playmaker, he still played like a usual midlaner, not his role on Fiddle. Syndra had all the TSM gold, even though he's a bad Syndra, their hope that game was still Syndra and blue on a fking tank support Fiddle? That's like your own inting support trolling you stealing the buffs in solo queue.
can thorin say less than twenty sentences as once. everything requires the most tiresome, long winded explanations. glad to listen to the show again though, remember listening to it omw home from work like 5 years ago, thanks for the content boyz.
Did Monte lose his C9 job because of the whole TSM thing?
thorin looks so skinny in this one
monty doesnt understand league but he is well spoken.
NA teams and players have grown way too complacent, getting fat paychecks for playing their little ARAM each week (save for c9) just sad to see compared to EU....
So do you not agree with the sentiments that they talked about in this show? Because while they would definitely agree that there are some really shit teams in the LCS (namely Dignitas and especially Immortals) , they actually seemed pretty high on teams like FLyquest, EG, TL and even GGS. And at least from what I heard from this episode, Solo is not on C9 and feels intently motivated to try to be a good player on a good team
@@scouthatesrainbows because this teams pick one style and work around that they are working hard eg is way better now, doy is testing how to be better and they really master the old "standar" 5vs5 late game team comp, tl need more time but there is hope
Anyone else just watch the intros? Sadly, LCS is such a damn dumpster fire that I can't even enjoy Monte and Thorin shitting on it for two hours, I'd rather everyone just accept NA's status as the newest wild card region so we can get more LEC/LPL focused shows.
wait why are they flaming DL's syndra? besides the stun he messed up in the first gank, his syndra wasn't bad at all. they lost because of overall comp not the way syndra was piloted lmao. like phreak said, he clicked the buttons well overall but Aphelios got gigafed, built qss early and pd later, azir is long range (still found him some fights but couldnt 1shot him cuz he is perma 2-3levels up due to being a solo laner) and he cant 1shot any of the tanks because two of them built stoneplate and the other is ornn. its not like he was syndra mid and was 3 levels on enemy adc like the champ normally would be either. That's why most people blame the draft. If there was extra dmg to add the finishing touches on the carries, tsm could have won the fights. The game definitely was not because of how DL played syndra. i really hate when "analysts" flame something for no reason because "DL cant play mages" is a fun narrative. I would have rather they stuck on what they said later which is kai'sa was a perfect pick there, i agree with that 100%. they win that game with a traditional AD with that gross fiddle frontline
Just because he is better than the first time Syndra in your iron 4 flex games doesn't mean he was good on for lcs level, also it's more about the fact he is better on normal adcs so why pick the mage
If he didn’t miss that stun, Aphelios wouldn’t have gotten that fed. Don’t you know how snowballs work?
@Najawin First of all, there is barely any skill expression on syndra, so to compare to riven/ornn combos is unfair. Look at most syndras you see do well in lcs, what do they do? get a bunch of farm, press Q > E > R or R > E > Q. Sure, there can be levels to how well players do this based on how well they farmed/dodge skill shots but overall for how they pilot the abilities, it's not much skill expression and definitely isn't viewable to the average LCS viewer with the shitty spectator system. Second, everyone is CONVENIENTLY forgetting how HARD biofrost inted that game. He literally ran it, fed aphelios and made it so that he could build defensive early and get away with it (also aphelios is just op and does alot of dmg so he can afford to do so). It's already pretty hard to navigate fights vs leona/trundle/ornn as a squishy mage but when you can't even 1shot the adc there's not much skill expression there or "WOW Syndra outplay" moments to be had. He hit the buttons right like i said, in 90% of fights he ulted a priority target whether it was the azir (who was usually 2 levels ahead of him because its a solo laner) or the fed aphelios (with QSS/PD) every fight, he just couldnt 1shot them, or his team couldnt add the finishing touches of damage needed. I'm even surprised that he caught out azir a bunch of times that game which shows atleast his vision for kill opportunities is there. This is why most people blame the draft because if there was more damage those carries do die and its a closer game. I'd say DL having push the entire game, highest cs the entire game and did bully the leona/aphelios in lane does show a level of mastery to it. I distinctly remember him hitting 4 q's in a row on ignars leona in the first few seconds of laning phase which led to them having push the whole lane. He did a vod review on his stream of the game and the overall consensus of him and his chat which contained some LCS coaches and analysts that he played the game well overall, besides the first gank where he trolled. Overall, he did the highest %dmg of anyone in the game too so it's pretty disingenuous to say his syndra was bad. we judging how a player plays a champ on one skillshot now or what?
@@billyhutson Okay, that's just literally wrong in so many ways. I guess you shouldn't even bring up how snowballs work if you didn't even watch the game to see how aphelios got snowballed. First of all aphelios did not get the kill on that gank, santorin did. Aphelios at most got 50-100 gold from that assist. secondly, even if DL saves bio there, his flash is still gone. If you watch the game, you'd see the gank did not amount to anything after the kill. Bot lane was pushed and normal resets happened. This means, Bio would have still died later in the next fight where he hooked the aphelios at the perfect time of a counter gank and him + spica gave 2 kills to aphelios. This is where the real snowball happened for aphelios. Lastly, even after the first TWO ganks, DL had push and higher cs the entire laning phase. Aphelios got fed because biofrost ran it down on the aphelios throughout the game going 0/9, not because of that one stun.
Chill dude we get it dl is good on senna syndra vlad and every champ in the game. Its not his fault right? Its draft and his teammates. Why does the world only hate on dl geez
Tried to watch Thorin for a bit, was quite funny/entertaining, but kinda got bored of snakeoil salesman shtick, and 'always knowing what's wrong with something or someone', or the continues "You know what your problem is?". Years later, decide to press on the thumbnail, and literally the first thing he says.. :D
I feel like monte just doesnt know anything about league but is pretending to
I think tactical is one of luckiest player in lcs history. He start as a rookie in a very veteran team, he got train by one of the best support in league history, and he can build confidence in competitive game before entering the arena. Playing in game house is very different from in whole bunch of audiences, especially for rookie first few game without confidence wins. I think in future tactical can become the best adc in NA.
I think tactical is one of luckiest player in lcs history. He start as a rookie in a very veteran team, he got train by one of the best support in league history, and he can build confidence in competitive game before entering the arena. Playing in game house is very different from in whole bunch of audiences, especially for rookie first few game without confidence wins. I think in future tactical can become the best adc in NA.
One of the luckiest, you forget Biofrost did start as a rookie with TSM and won like 3 split in a row afterwards. Biofrost is still the luckiest, until we see Tactical win 4 in a row. Biofrost still holds that lucky title.
@@kae1971 Well yea, I used "one of"