As a sister player this is the worst. Our infantry is pretty easy to get rid of with T3 and 1 wound only, so we could use those BS squads as a sacrificial lamb to gain Miracle Dice for our heavy hitters, any loss of an expensive unit is a benefit for the rest of the army. MD is probably the number one reason Sisters were doing so great, outside of Bringers detachment that is. Our best weapons are ST 10, meltas are ST9, the only way we can punch trough the vehicles and tough heavy infantry are our use of Miracle Dice and rule shenanigans that helped our army to become competitive again as we had weak and glassy infantry, but could win with our good rules. Now we are just weak and don't have any rules to compensate for it. Time to switch a faction, I guess. X.X
As a sisters only player, these changes make me sad. Penitence host isn’t what I want out of sisters so I don’t play it at all. Bringer of flame got absolutely gutter. 4 stratagem nerfs and the buff being reduced to 6” is a huge overreaction. I would have taken the strat point increases and buffs to the underperforming ones, but now bringer of flame is almost worthless to me since I can’t use flankers and dev wounds to avoid running all melta crutch. Army of faith caught strays with the MD nerf and I’d almost want them to let army of faith generate more dice at base without the strats. It had potential to be good, but gutting our MD generation makes it hardly worth it anymore. Hallowed Martyrs is the only one who may see any play, but they have limited useful strats and their rule is a little too weak. Unless you are running solo penitence engines and modifiers or solo Vahl, the +1 to wound come in too late on any non-tank units. And the limitation of 1 MD per phase on death makes playing risky with HM less rewarding overall. The character resurrection strat also gets worse since you have to use MD on it. Hopefully the new detachment gives us something useful or else I’ll be catching even more losses than I already am playing just 1 army ;~;. Praying for a detachment that gives us T4 infantry or something.
T'au aren't only impacted by points changes: the 3" deepstrike loss is pretty painful for Retaliation Cadre; both for finding spaces to set up and for not getting within melta range.
Don't forget that it's also 2CP. When rapid Ingress exists, they pretty much will never use this. They effectively lost a stratagem. Also my poor Dreadtalons...
RIP to my "protect the president" style list with the baneblade at its core. Lord Solar giving it "take aim!" was such a central part of that. They could have thrown us a bone by changing the tank commander from giving squadron units Orders to give Vehicle orders
Yeah this change sucks. The horse guy was an auto include for me because i wanted my center piece model to have an army rule. Now my poor baneblade is no better than a knight when it comes to synergy.
Yeah, this was overlooked by Vanguard. Saying "overall, not massive" is incorrect. The superheavies can now only hit on a 4+ no matter what. That is a MASSIVE damage reduction on such an expensive unit. Baneblade chassis just got a whole lot less useful.
Basically just because there was only 2months inbetwee data slates so gw just wrote these as a near jerk reaction to codex launch and didnt think pts increase would be enough and because gw is such a inefficient out dated company they didnt the ability to pull these changes. I would be okay with this if they basically reverted all the pts nerfs from October but we got pts increases on our 2 tanks on top of this.... i get people dont like playing against mircale dice but if you take away bringer of flames and mircale dice and army of faith yet justify zerphyrim and rets being more the devastators and assault marines. like our pts are stupidly high for t3 bodies because we had some of the strongest rules in the game....... now our rules are probably mid tier and our pts are some of the highest in the game for t3 1w bodies like WHAT?
My three armies, Sisters, Guard, and Tau, being given the CEO treatment. Somehow this feels worse, because I started to collect these armies when they were all on the bottom half, but there was a bit of sort of "pride" in it, and there were hopes for rule improvements. Now it feels worse because we are at the same place, but negative changes always feel worse than positive ones, and now there are not hope for better rules, as rules were deemed "too good". Not really a great day today, huh. I hope that at least the detachments for these three are cool, because specially sisters went from an army that was fun to play to an army that feels worse than in their index version, when they were already under powered. Again, T3 W1 3+ bodies at double the price of a 4+ human or similar price to a T4 W2 only make sense because sisters was always the army of extremely underwhelming stats compensated by great rules and the ability to perform miracles. Without miracles, the army is just an overcosted mess. My hope is that the new sister detachment is either one that overdrives bolters and heavy bolters (useless in comparison with the other two of the trinity, which is a pity) or a melee army that is not penitent host, but more focused on miniatures that are never used like sacrosants and zephrym. Also I really wanted for them to remove the st*pid arbitrary restriction in Zephrym only giving their skill to power weapons, because it is such a small change, but it just feels so st*pid when you have to choose a worse weapon for your jumpack canoness just because. The damage change would be minimal, but it is one of those rules that are just annoying, not impactful, just annoying. And for the bolter detachment, they would need to do something crazy, like bolters gain sustained +1 and AP +1 or something like that. And even then, they are still worse than melta and flamer in most situations. But anything short of that, unless the new rules were crazy, would be useless. And seeing how they mauled sisters, I doubt that the detachment will be anything this bold.
@ hahah I agree they need to be dropped to about 135-140. Deathshroud are 110 with 9 wounds and better profiles. That’s re roll wounds of 1 is redundant as well.
I play Tyranids. Several strength and damage boosts, and we're still only clinging to solidly mid thanks to scoring shenanigans with spore mines and ripper swarms... So yes; less lethal, absolutely.
@@SwearingWizard77 I mean, I don't want or need the worst excesses of 9th to return. But it would be nice if tabling my opponent - any opponent - was at least a theoretical possibility, and not just assuming an absolute ideal hard counter match-up.
@ as someone who’s been tabled playing multiple armies against multiple different armies I assure you it’s always been 100% possible my guy. However not EVERY army should be able to table an opponent and if they do they should be able to do it under different circumstances, not just my output is insane so you lose. However my experience could just be a skill issue 😂
lore-wise it's "fun" that a miracle can't happen if you get slaughtered turn 1 and you were not the starting player...I assume Sisters winrate will plummet from 51 to somewhere in the mid 40's
you can still do blood angels detachment and get the new oaths of moment, you cant include any special chapter units, but doesnt say cant use ba detachment, +2S and +w1 in melee still on the table yippe
I sort of saw that but it feels like it's not in the spirit of the rules, even if the wording allows it. Fully expecting them to just say that if you run a divergent detachment then all units in that army gain the chapter's keyword.
As a custodes player, yes I'm hyped for the new praetors. A unit of three with a captain is about the same as wardens with a character and somewhat comparably tough, much faster, and much shootier. D2 hurricane bolters and those new Salvo launchers are looking deadly! Not going to spam them, but one unit could be a big help in any list. They will have to compete with Venatari, but they can probably do so. Definitely a sledgehammer compared to the venatari's scalpel.
As a world eater player, I think it is sad that they have redone that aura, Because we don't have a codex yet, it takes away the ways you could play the army.
I don’t know how to tell you… but the REAL hot take: all spacemarines are always given better rules, better abilities and lower points costs and more frequent range updates than every single other faction. I wanted to play Warhammer 40K, not Spacemarine 40k
I was kinda hoping for buffs for the Magus! It's such a shame that such a key part of our cults have such a weak datasheet. They should be as essential as a Primus!
seems weird assimilator is a harvester and not a vanguard. like he looks like a giant lictor and lore is he stalks and kills key leaders or units in the enemy forces....
@@getjinxed7354 Its because of the name and becaise Assimilation Swarm needed something. Maybe the Emissary is the main stalky one, while he is now a hungry brawler.
22:40 To answer the question, making the range for the strength bonus on Bringers of Flame 6" already makes me not want to play them over Hallowed Martyrs. Making the strats more expensive just confirms that choice. One or the other might have been workable.
Being able to deep strike Morty into your opponents backline is going to be a game changer for death guard. His melee profile is a little sad but it's still better than most of what we have.
As a GSC player, I'd like to see resurgent points go up by 2 depending on which detachment you're playing. Xenocreed, Acolyte units get an extra 2, HoA, Neophytes, BBS Purstrains, and Jackals in Outlander would all get the extra RP to play with. Would be nice to know I can bring back two full sized units of the models that matter most in specific detatchments.
I think a flat 2 point increase for points across the board based on army size+a decrease in points cost for certain units based on detachment would also be a good change That would make more incentive to run a specific detachment while also not soft-locking any player into only being able to return one type of unit
20:40 The Triumph is dead in the water. Most people did not even take it even with the secured 6 because they raised the points massively last time (70?). There is no way anyone is paying the equivalent of a tank and a half (250!!) for two decent auras, two of which are completely useless now (especially the one to double miracle dice, what miracle dice?)
One thing to mention about the Trygon change, you used to be able to rapid ingress it at 3" because of how the rule was worded. Now you cant even rapid ingress it 6". So it is completely dead in the water, between the base size and that change there is 0 play for a Trygon now and quite frankly it needs an entirely new rule (bring back Jormungdar and let endless multitude units burrow out of its tunnel!!)
I think the Lord Solar change is disappointing. I don't think the issue was that he could order auxilia, I think it's that you need him to access the army rule. He's still going to be an auto include because 50 points per order is still the best deal guard can make. Really what this did was outlaw baneblades and that is not a fun change. Nor was it something required on the competitive scene.
The lord solar change is horrible. I brought him in every list because he was the only way to give my ogryns and baneblade an army rule. Sure horse guy is no longer an auto include but now I have no way to get my faction rule on my favorite model in the game. The baneblade, guards center piece model now has the same amount of synergy in the army as an allied knight. This change is fucking terrible.
And there's no good reason why an army commander wouldn't be able to order anything and everything within the army. Why superheavies are treated as if they lack radios and are just wild units that listen to no one is really strange. It would be better if any character that was designated as a Warlord could order any unit, not just with a specific label.
@@ColonelHoganStalag13 what’s crazy to me is that guards super heavies are the only one treated this way. Almost everyone else’s big models can be used and benefit from all there factions rules and some like the monolith have entire detachments for them. They might not be balanced but they can actually interact with the army rules but apparently we’re not allowed to have that.
@@tinguspingus1523 i'm curious if guard superheavies will get the admech castellan treatment in their codex... (a detachment that's only benefit is giving them your army rule)
Its an absurd nerf and win rates are going to crater. MD have never been a problem, they are a needed compensation for the other weaknesses in the Sisters list. Without them we're just going to lose any game where we don't roll super well on the few MD we do get.
I havent watched the video yet, but did you guys get anything? Like an extra ability on models or anything? Edit: damn, SoB got nerfed into the ground.
@@Djones0125 Lol, lmao even, said James Workshop Of course not Points up BoF ability is only at 6" inches now instead of 12 2 strats in BoF goes up to 2 CP St Kath auto 6 dice nerfed Miracle dice generation nerfed That's a middle finger when Sisters were now doing ok in competitive
As a sisters player, I can say we needed one or two light taps with the nerf bat to tone in the ott stuff. We didn't need the entire nerf bat inserted into our recta after said bat was given spikes and set on fire. xD
@@Rp4467 Why? Because Guilliman was buffed? He also went up to 345 points (for a model with T9 and 10 wounds). Ultras gained nothing ellse compared to the other vanilla chapters who got major buffs to their characters. Both Ventris and Calgar also went up in points.
19:30 Well the difference between Aeldari Fate dice and sisters miracle dice is that even without the Fate dice, the Aeldari had amazing stats. If you compare Retributors with the Brightlances, not only were these cheaper, but all the rules and stat were better. Aeldari never needed Fate dice, they were incredibly good without them. That is why they got cut in half and they were still top army. Sisters are costed around miracle dice, they are all T3 W1 3+ bodies at the cost of a space marine! Double of a normal 4+/5+ human! It makes no sense. The problem was never miracle dice, the problem was BoF. The rest of the detachments were either never used or around the the 50% winning rate mark. Just the changes to BoF would have put the entire army around 50%. The miracle dice change are going to put them behind what they were with the index, in my opinion.
Welp, there goes the Retaliation Cadre. It's best stratagem has been gutted. For 2 CP you can't get within melta range, or the -1 AP range. I see no point in using the shortened blade, even if it's cost was reduced to 1 CP.
The lion buffs aren't buffs, they're a nerf. He already killed a 5-man marine squad on average. This is only a buff against black templars and the 30pt increase just makes him way over-costed again.
As a Guard player, nothing has changed for me. I’m still fielding a 3rd/4th edition styled army around infantry squads, platoon command squads and LRMBTs.
GW needs to look at recent performance before writing these... They're doing digital rules FFS. They should be able to look and see that since the last MFM, Sisters are only at a 50% winrate and realized that if they gut the army, they need to give it something back. T'au also got hit quite hard as the suits are quite big and deep striking them is a struggle to begin with and now they're also losing their detachment rule for deep strikes AND sunforges lose melta on deep strikes, which is a 36% damage reduction... And T'au were already a below-average winrate army with ret cadre as their only positive winrate detachment and it got hit notably hard here. Starscythe deep strikes are useless now and sunforge deep strike bombs, which were the main reason to even run the detachment got a nearly 40% damage reduction...
So they nerfed Hypercrypt legion. First the 3" deep strike nerf and then also taking away one unit to hyperphase. People were already talking about if it was worth using hypercrypt, now with Starshatter Arsenal released. I'd expect everyone playing Starshatter now. Annihilation is a good change but not enough to see anyone play it competitive.
I think they went to hard on miracle dice. I see it going back to one per player round. I am happy with Khans upgrade, white scars still need generic biker character. Custodes changes for bikes are rad.
This is so insanely obnoxious. I wish I would have known that changes were made this often to 40K before I got into it. I bought my first army back in October, only to have my points changed and my list made illegal due to it, now hypercrypt catches another nerf and all before I even get a game in. This is fucking ridiculous.
do you think its ethical that you compete in competitions despite having an advantage over your opponents by working with GW and having input and early access to the rules?
one thing you guys forgot about with Daemons, though essentially you talked about the overall deep strike rule but, the Daemons strat which allows deep strike 3" away the strat would now be 6" away which essentially wouldn't matter if you are in shadow cause you can do that anyways. I am curious if you use that strat can you now charge if you do that? if not I would imagine that strat is never used.
Great call, I guess the only time you would is to drop something that has shadows like belakor where you don't have shadows so you can then drop more things closer? So glad I'm jumping into daemons now 😂
@@Barkeep014 yea but to that point if you use that strat you can't charge so why not DS at 9" away bring in others 6" away and then all can charge. yea weird ruling. hopefully we get an update to that.
with the changes to the tank commander Lord Solar is not as important as he was before....in my opinion, i think we gonna see a lot more tank commander heavy lists
@@Badbufon That might sound justifiable for you but units of Chimeras and Catachan infantry aren't heavy hitters nor were they being spammed. Arbitrarily raising point costs and not accounting for a real change doesn't create more balance. And if anything, GW may decrease them several months from now - for no real good reason. The constant point changes doesn't address real problems, it is just done to shift sales.
Deep striking in of itself unbalances the game. When you have units that circumvent game mechanics like normal movement and they get to evade all of the shooting and just pop up somewhere, it doesn't make for a better game. Unfortunately GW has written certain factions to where they do this as part of their core mechanics. The game as mostly degenerated into super characters and melee. The garbled mess of ruins is fine for cover from shooting but just reduces it all to who can charge and strike first. Early editions had it right, you needed to use a variety of unit types to win not just a primarch and a retinue of heroes.
@@ColonelHoganStalag13 what are you talking about the majority of top tier armies are not even melee based nor deathstar based.....deepstrike is a required mechanic because unless you have like 80% of the boarder covered in LOS blocking terrian shooting is by definition an uninteractive mechanic that is quite literally just a complicated version of coin flip simulator. i love how you say it unbalances and circumvent the game when it is one of the only mechanics in the game that has actual interaction and skill and it ONLY circumvents a mechanic that has no interaction or skill aka shooting.
sisters are getting some devastating changes. The massive reduction of miracle dice hurts in all the detachments but AoF is gonna be close to not playable. The change to 6" to get the +1 str in BoF is gonna hurt way more than the strat changes. PH is still a weird one to play and forces you to take a handful of units. So I guess most sisters players are gonna have to go back to index to have some ability to be competitive. It's kind of insulting to get the points increase on our tanks with the other changes.
there is no way sisters will be competitive it be better just to trash can the codex and go back to the index at this point. Mircale dice are a very mid tier army rule now hallowed martyrs is a bad detachment rule with some decent starts because we are t3 1w bodies are units dont survive at below half strength lol. so we have very mid tier rules now on t3 1w bodies and we have basically the highest pts in the game for what we get just compare 85pts zerphyrim to 75 pt assault marines and it not even close.... and the problem with PH is not the units it is the units are over priced and the "doctrines" just dont work. like the doctrines in theory are good but would be way better as strats that you can use when needed not something you have to spend THREE battle rounds to go through as a mostly high pt cost fragile army. like o you let your slow fragile melee units go fast? well now their dmg is meh. well lets just assume ur opponent is bad or your playing on a extremely heavy cover board so you used ur movement doctrine to move up to mid field and managed to stay out of los AND/OR charge range. now you can charge next turn with ur dmg doctrine and do some dmg okay so how exactly our you going to survive their turn to use ur last one? fight on death? o you cant. so there is no way to actually use all 3 of your doctrines and the only way repentina are paying for themselves at 180 is using all 3 doctrines. like you reasonably would have to charge up kill something and the fight on death and kill something else. like if engines were down to 60 repentina down to 140 and acros down like 120 but at current cost just maxing acros and repentina puts you at 1k pts already that is a 3 very fargile units and 3 okayish tough units with no characters and both have pretty avg dmg into their intended targets
Okay firstly Norn assimilator has harvester!! It can assimilate! Secondly Guilliaman looks awesome! Thirdly How tf did they fail AGAIN to make changes to first company task force? Sternguard have reroll wounds against oath target which in general is dope.....but the detachment rule is reroll wounds 😅 and sternguard are vets you want to take
My one whine about all this: the REAL hot take: all spacemarines are always given better rules, better abilities, better datasheets and lower points costs and more frequent range updates than every single other faction. I wanted to play Warhammer 40K, not Spacemarine 40k
WHy does gw hate marines so much. As a templar player I feel like my army is just getting hit over and over again. I already dont have a great win rate, this has made me not wana play my marines
this is why my models are 100% 3d printed. their balance is so dg sht because they are so slow and behind they basically did not take into account at all how they were playing after the october pts cost just people were like "o these rules are so strong" yea but we pay the highest pt cost in game for t3 1w models so we need strong rules...... o u nerfed the rules so we going to see zerphyrim go down to like 55pts rights and rets down to like 105 right? o no they are staying at 10-50% higher pts than similar marine units that have better rules better detachments better weapon choices and t4 2ws okay..
Well of course Penitent Host was buffed while everything else was nerfed. They need to sell all those SoB Christmas Boxes that no one bought. Saw that one coming. GW is so predictable.
In fairness the sisters dev wounds should and plus 1 to wound should if always been that way space marines fire storm dev wounds has always been 2cp and plus to wound required 6 inches
@kazamiagame3523 I don't agree with that change just the change in starts like all the other dev wound stuff is 2cp even grey knights and theirs is only melee that could be 1cp. Sisters was hit extra hard cause the rules team failed initially and they have been going nuts. With the miracle dice changes this is kinda over kill
I think sisters are just a dead army atm. they were what a 52% win rate army before and now they got their 2 best detachments gutted and their army rule gutted? think this is a over reaction from their release in the summer. They already got massive points raises to make them pay for their strong rules and if gw wanted to take power from the rules to bring them inline with other books that fine but you have to undo the pts increase now. i suspect this army is probably mid 40% win rate now why is a Ret squad more than Dev squad now? why is a zerphyrim squad more than assault squad? how is a castigator 40 MORE points than either predator tank? So all of our new detachments are just awful at this point why not just throw the book out and go back to the index lol? atleast we can play Martyrs then with insane point cost....
40K players hating on MD is always so funny. People are fine with all sorts of "re-roll everything" and +X to a die roll rules, but using your entire Army Rule to generate limited MDs with random results (we don't get auto-6s like people pretend we do) that we can use on a limited set of rolls once per phase per unit (or twice if you don't want a detachment rule!) is somehow unbelievably busted on our frail girls with terrible weapons.
Marines get to pick a unit, *any unit*, in the opponent's army to get absolutely mashed, gutted and annihilated with no recourse. Two with Gully Stu. Sisters get... *checks notes* a few random dice that *might* result in a single auto wound or passed save. For one model. In one phase. And we just wound up with a fricktonne less. We have lower toughness, half the wounds, and worse guns than the marines. And cost more points. I get there may have been a needed nerf or two... At least before we started seeing some of the xmas detachments... But this is a kick in the teeth the more I think about it.
@@getjinxed7354AoC is the most used SM strategem. With captains having the free strat ability it wasn’t fun to play against an opponent who would use AoC every phase on multiple units when they already save on 3s SM were already strong and now they’re WAY stronger
As a sister player this is the worst.
Our infantry is pretty easy to get rid of with T3 and 1 wound only, so we could use those BS squads as a sacrificial lamb to gain Miracle Dice for our heavy hitters, any loss of an expensive unit is a benefit for the rest of the army. MD is probably the number one reason Sisters were doing so great, outside of Bringers detachment that is. Our best weapons are ST 10, meltas are ST9, the only way we can punch trough the vehicles and tough heavy infantry are our use of Miracle Dice and rule shenanigans that helped our army to become competitive again as we had weak and glassy infantry, but could win with our good rules. Now we are just weak and don't have any rules to compensate for it.
Time to switch a faction, I guess. X.X
As a sisters only player, these changes make me sad.
Penitence host isn’t what I want out of sisters so I don’t play it at all.
Bringer of flame got absolutely gutter. 4 stratagem nerfs and the buff being reduced to 6” is a huge overreaction. I would have taken the strat point increases and buffs to the underperforming ones, but now bringer of flame is almost worthless to me since I can’t use flankers and dev wounds to avoid running all melta crutch.
Army of faith caught strays with the MD nerf and I’d almost want them to let army of faith generate more dice at base without the strats. It had potential to be good, but gutting our MD generation makes it hardly worth it anymore.
Hallowed Martyrs is the only one who may see any play, but they have limited useful strats and their rule is a little too weak. Unless you are running solo penitence engines and modifiers or solo Vahl, the +1 to wound come in too late on any non-tank units. And the limitation of 1 MD per phase on death makes playing risky with HM less rewarding overall. The character resurrection strat also gets worse since you have to use MD on it.
Hopefully the new detachment gives us something useful or else I’ll be catching even more losses than I already am playing just 1 army ;~;. Praying for a detachment that gives us T4 infantry or something.
T'au aren't only impacted by points changes: the 3" deepstrike loss is pretty painful for Retaliation Cadre; both for finding spaces to set up and for not getting within melta range.
And still spending 2cp for an ability that most armies do for free or 1cp, could have dropped it to 1cp
Don't forget that it's also 2CP. When rapid Ingress exists, they pretty much will never use this. They effectively lost a stratagem.
Also my poor Dreadtalons...
And the Tiger shark went Up from 275 to 325. Like why ......
You forgot that Lord Solar cannot order Baneblades anymore!!
No more bonuses for Super-Heavy Tanks
It’s fucking bs, seeing as it wasn’t really that crazy, they gave him a points increase, Ogryn and super heavy’s left out to dry
RIP to my "protect the president" style list with the baneblade at its core. Lord Solar giving it "take aim!" was such a central part of that.
They could have thrown us a bone by changing the tank commander from giving squadron units Orders to give Vehicle orders
Yeah this change sucks. The horse guy was an auto include for me because i wanted my center piece model to have an army rule. Now my poor baneblade is no better than a knight when it comes to synergy.
It's rough. Guard super heavies are essentially unusable unless they get a points decrease or the Squadron keyword when our codex comes out
Yeah, this was overlooked by Vanguard. Saying "overall, not massive" is incorrect. The superheavies can now only hit on a 4+ no matter what. That is a MASSIVE damage reduction on such an expensive unit. Baneblade chassis just got a whole lot less useful.
They literally killed sisters. Toughness 3 and overall low strength is bearable ONLY thanks to miracle dice.
Sisters are down to a 50% win rate before this massive nerf. How exactly can you justify calling MD a massive issue?
Expect them to be at around 44%
@@x9939the dark angels will keep them company. Or maybe we will surrender our seat and move up a little, eh?
Basically just because there was only 2months inbetwee data slates so gw just wrote these as a near jerk reaction to codex launch and didnt think pts increase would be enough and because gw is such a inefficient out dated company they didnt the ability to pull these changes. I would be okay with this if they basically reverted all the pts nerfs from October but we got pts increases on our 2 tanks on top of this.... i get people dont like playing against mircale dice but if you take away bringer of flames and mircale dice and army of faith yet justify zerphyrim and rets being more the devastators and assault marines. like our pts are stupidly high for t3 bodies because we had some of the strongest rules in the game....... now our rules are probably mid tier and our pts are some of the highest in the game for t3 1w bodies like WHAT?
@@getjinxed7354 People that don't enjoy playing against MD don't understand MD.
They were at a much higher win rate for a while before this, were they not?
Orks WAAAGH change is exactly what I wanted. I hated my opponents knowing it was coming
My three armies, Sisters, Guard, and Tau, being given the CEO treatment.
Somehow this feels worse, because I started to collect these armies when they were all on the bottom half, but there was a bit of sort of "pride" in it, and there were hopes for rule improvements.
Now it feels worse because we are at the same place, but negative changes always feel worse than positive ones, and now there are not hope for better rules, as rules were deemed "too good".
Not really a great day today, huh. I hope that at least the detachments for these three are cool, because specially sisters went from an army that was fun to play to an army that feels worse than in their index version, when they were already under powered. Again, T3 W1 3+ bodies at double the price of a 4+ human or similar price to a T4 W2 only make sense because sisters was always the army of extremely underwhelming stats compensated by great rules and the ability to perform miracles. Without miracles, the army is just an overcosted mess.
My hope is that the new sister detachment is either one that overdrives bolters and heavy bolters (useless in comparison with the other two of the trinity, which is a pity) or a melee army that is not penitent host, but more focused on miniatures that are never used like sacrosants and zephrym. Also I really wanted for them to remove the st*pid arbitrary restriction in Zephrym only giving their skill to power weapons, because it is such a small change, but it just feels so st*pid when you have to choose a worse weapon for your jumpack canoness just because. The damage change would be minimal, but it is one of those rules that are just annoying, not impactful, just annoying.
And for the bolter detachment, they would need to do something crazy, like bolters gain sustained +1 and AP +1 or something like that. And even then, they are still worse than melta and flamer in most situations. But anything short of that, unless the new rules were crazy, would be useless. And seeing how they mauled sisters, I doubt that the detachment will be anything this bold.
I play those exact armies too lol
What if GW tuned down all the killyness, then we wouldn't need all those - to AP, inv saves on almost everything and feel no pains 🤷🏻♂️
Morty being able to deepstrike is wild
No blightlord change ffs
@ hahah I agree they need to be dropped to about 135-140. Deathshroud are 110 with 9 wounds and better profiles. That’s re roll wounds of 1 is redundant as well.
Cries in chaos biker. I want a leader snd that outrider dmg.
All this extra AP and nerf to AoC… anyone remember when GW said this would be a “less lethal” edition?
They meant that for everyone not Astartes
I play Tyranids. Several strength and damage boosts, and we're still only clinging to solidly mid thanks to scoring shenanigans with spore mines and ripper swarms... So yes; less lethal, absolutely.
They did but people kept griping their units weren’t as strong or Killy as they were in 9th
@@SwearingWizard77 I mean, I don't want or need the worst excesses of 9th to return. But it would be nice if tabling my opponent - any opponent - was at least a theoretical possibility, and not just assuming an absolute ideal hard counter match-up.
@ as someone who’s been tabled playing multiple armies against multiple different armies I assure you it’s always been 100% possible my guy. However not EVERY army should be able to table an opponent and if they do they should be able to do it under different circumstances, not just my output is insane so you lose. However my experience could just be a skill issue 😂
I was expecting necrons to be gutted ngl
Why would Josh gut his own army… I’m sad my sisters are gutted but happy my orks, Stodes and WE got left alone or buffed
Instead Necrons will be gutting everyone else lol
lore-wise it's "fun" that a miracle can't happen if you get slaughtered turn 1 and you were not the starting player...I assume Sisters winrate will plummet from 51 to somewhere in the mid 40's
you can still do blood angels detachment and get the new oaths of moment, you cant include any special chapter units, but doesnt say cant use ba detachment, +2S and +w1 in melee still on the table yippe
Blood angels outriders army!
@ assault intercessors are wounding on 2s against T4 people
I sort of saw that but it feels like it's not in the spirit of the rules, even if the wording allows it. Fully expecting them to just say that if you run a divergent detachment then all units in that army gain the chapter's keyword.
As a custodes player, yes I'm hyped for the new praetors. A unit of three with a captain is about the same as wardens with a character and somewhat comparably tough, much faster, and much shootier. D2 hurricane bolters and those new Salvo launchers are looking deadly!
Not going to spam them, but one unit could be a big help in any list. They will have to compete with Venatari, but they can probably do so. Definitely a sledgehammer compared to the venatari's scalpel.
As a world eater player, I think it is sad that they have redone that aura, Because we don't have a codex yet, it takes away the ways you could play the army.
Unpopular opinion I'm sure, but Ultra Marines just became the best army in the game. Guess GW is trying to ride the wave of Space Marine 2.
Explain!!!
I don’t know how to tell you… but the REAL hot take: all spacemarines are always given better rules, better abilities and lower points costs and more frequent range updates than every single other faction.
I wanted to play Warhammer 40K, not Spacemarine 40k
@@crossfitruston3632 cry harder
@@crossfitruston3632 Space marines spend at least 50% of the time beeing complete shit. Wanna be prime time all the time? Play eldar
@@koenvandiepen7651 win rates tell a different story, but okay I guess
I was kinda hoping for buffs for the Magus! It's such a shame that such a key part of our cults have such a weak datasheet. They should be as essential as a Primus!
Black templar pyreblasters not getting the -1 AP is a smidge wonky! Also, black templars didn't get a shout here.
You're happy. Ni'm building a GSC army and can't do it quickly enough to account for rules changes.
Thanks for all the FANTASTIC information!
An Assimilator that has a 5+ FNP and regenerates itself D3+1 Every turn doesn´t sound bad.
seems weird assimilator is a harvester and not a vanguard. like he looks like a giant lictor and lore is he stalks and kills key leaders or units in the enemy forces....
@@getjinxed7354 Its because of the name and becaise Assimilation Swarm needed something. Maybe the Emissary is the main stalky one, while he is now a hungry brawler.
22:40 To answer the question, making the range for the strength bonus on Bringers of Flame 6" already makes me not want to play them over Hallowed Martyrs. Making the strats more expensive just confirms that choice. One or the other might have been workable.
Custodes Bikers are back baby 😂 i love it but that is sooooo overkill ^^
I wish they would help out black templars a bit
I know same that nerf a bit ago hurt me like fuck 😭
We weren't even mentioned haha its pretty painful. We seem pretty hated right now for some reason.
Listen, I have many Custode bikes like most. I will play them and it'll be glorious. Although I feel my venatari will be less used :'(
Nah I still think venetarii are superior, that free ingress and going through walls etc are fantastic
@@connoroneill221 100%, they are amazing But T7 and W5 and 8W for the ShieldCapt is a tough block to move. Plus normal moves doing mortals is juicy!
Being able to deep strike Morty into your opponents backline is going to be a game changer for death guard. His melee profile is a little sad but it's still better than most of what we have.
As a GSC player, I'd like to see resurgent points go up by 2 depending on which detachment you're playing. Xenocreed, Acolyte units get an extra 2, HoA, Neophytes, BBS Purstrains, and Jackals in Outlander would all get the extra RP to play with. Would be nice to know I can bring back two full sized units of the models that matter most in specific detatchments.
I think a flat 2 point increase for points across the board based on army size+a decrease in points cost for certain units based on detachment would also be a good change
That would make more incentive to run a specific detachment while also not soft-locking any player into only being able to return one type of unit
Maybe a decrease on the cost of reinforcing for the detachment? brood surge would for example reduce abarents and purestrains
20:40 The Triumph is dead in the water. Most people did not even take it even with the secured 6 because they raised the points massively last time (70?).
There is no way anyone is paying the equivalent of a tank and a half (250!!) for two decent auras, two of which are completely useless now (especially the one to double miracle dice, what miracle dice?)
One thing to mention about the Trygon change, you used to be able to rapid ingress it at 3" because of how the rule was worded. Now you cant even rapid ingress it 6". So it is completely dead in the water, between the base size and that change there is 0 play for a Trygon now and quite frankly it needs an entirely new rule (bring back Jormungdar and let endless multitude units burrow out of its tunnel!!)
Bringers of flame is dead. It was taken out back and shot and now I’m scrambling to figure out what to do for LVO
change army
@ seriously considering it
Yep and Army of Faith is on life support.
Use the rest of the army and detachments?
@@paulshaw3907illegal, take this man away
I think the Lord Solar change is disappointing.
I don't think the issue was that he could order auxilia, I think it's that you need him to access the army rule. He's still going to be an auto include because 50 points per order is still the best deal guard can make.
Really what this did was outlaw baneblades and that is not a fun change. Nor was it something required on the competitive scene.
I’m surprised baneblades lost orders but didn’t go down in points. We also lost access to detachment rules.
Wait....are White Scars bike lists......viable now??
Those wolf scouts have s5 ap1 knifes now. They hit as hard as vanguard veterans.
The lord solar change is horrible. I brought him in every list because he was the only way to give my ogryns and baneblade an army rule. Sure horse guy is no longer an auto include but now I have no way to get my faction rule on my favorite model in the game. The baneblade, guards center piece model now has the same amount of synergy in the army as an allied knight. This change is fucking terrible.
And there's no good reason why an army commander wouldn't be able to order anything and everything within the army. Why superheavies are treated as if they lack radios and are just wild units that listen to no one is really strange. It would be better if any character that was designated as a Warlord could order any unit, not just with a specific label.
@@ColonelHoganStalag13 what’s crazy to me is that guards super heavies are the only one treated this way. Almost everyone else’s big models can be used and benefit from all there factions rules and some like the monolith have entire detachments for them. They might not be balanced but they can actually interact with the army rules but apparently we’re not allowed to have that.
@@tinguspingus1523 i'm curious if guard superheavies will get the admech castellan treatment in their codex... (a detachment that's only benefit is giving them your army rule)
I'm a Sister player, I'm crying right now. Even the points are just adding 10pts on Castigator and 20 on Exorcist, no points drop on anything
Its an absurd nerf and win rates are going to crater. MD have never been a problem, they are a needed compensation for the other weaknesses in the Sisters list. Without them we're just going to lose any game where we don't roll super well on the few MD we do get.
As a person who plays sisters but does not own ether of those models, these nerfs don’t really effect me
I havent watched the video yet, but did you guys get anything? Like an extra ability on models or anything?
Edit: damn, SoB got nerfed into the ground.
No.@@Djones0125
@@Djones0125 Lol, lmao even, said James Workshop
Of course not
Points up
BoF ability is only at 6" inches now instead of 12
2 strats in BoF goes up to 2 CP
St Kath auto 6 dice nerfed
Miracle dice generation nerfed
That's a middle finger when Sisters were now doing ok in competitive
Ultramarines -
+1 to wound on oath target
GMan gets 2 oath choices so always 2 oathes with 2 targets on reroll hits and +1 to wound!
Lets Go!
my pure tzeench demons finally have a chance, kinda.
Top job thanks dudes
Our pleasure!
No World Eaters changes is boring….hope new detachment is good.
As a sisters player, I can say we needed one or two light taps with the nerf bat to tone in the ott stuff.
We didn't need the entire nerf bat inserted into our recta after said bat was given spikes and set on fire. xD
Have you ever know GW to be proportional for nerfs? They only have one nerf power level- nuclear.
Hoo boy have a feeling Ultras will be monsters this dataslate
@@Rp4467 Why? Because Guilliman was buffed? He also went up to 345 points (for a model with T9 and 10 wounds). Ultras gained nothing ellse compared to the other vanilla chapters who got major buffs to their characters. Both Ventris and Calgar also went up in points.
19:30 Well the difference between Aeldari Fate dice and sisters miracle dice is that even without the Fate dice, the Aeldari had amazing stats. If you compare Retributors with the Brightlances, not only were these cheaper, but all the rules and stat were better.
Aeldari never needed Fate dice, they were incredibly good without them. That is why they got cut in half and they were still top army.
Sisters are costed around miracle dice, they are all T3 W1 3+ bodies at the cost of a space marine! Double of a normal 4+/5+ human! It makes no sense.
The problem was never miracle dice, the problem was BoF. The rest of the detachments were either never used or around the the 50% winning rate mark.
Just the changes to BoF would have put the entire army around 50%. The miracle dice change are going to put them behind what they were with the index, in my opinion.
Welp, there goes the Retaliation Cadre. It's best stratagem has been gutted. For 2 CP you can't get within melta range, or the -1 AP range. I see no point in using the shortened blade, even if it's cost was reduced to 1 CP.
I’m SSSOOOOOOO excited for my CoH changes!
Ah, so my only army, the sisters, are dead.
This won't be fun.
Watching this now after working all day and surprised the kids are watching it as well 😂🎉
The lion buffs aren't buffs, they're a nerf. He already killed a 5-man marine squad on average. This is only a buff against black templars and the 30pt increase just makes him way over-costed again.
As a Guard player, nothing has changed for me. I’m still fielding a 3rd/4th edition styled army around infantry squads, platoon command squads and LRMBTs.
5:30 - missed opportunity, they needed to rename it to "Shallow strike". .. .
GW needs to look at recent performance before writing these... They're doing digital rules FFS. They should be able to look and see that since the last MFM, Sisters are only at a 50% winrate and realized that if they gut the army, they need to give it something back. T'au also got hit quite hard as the suits are quite big and deep striking them is a struggle to begin with and now they're also losing their detachment rule for deep strikes AND sunforges lose melta on deep strikes, which is a 36% damage reduction... And T'au were already a below-average winrate army with ret cadre as their only positive winrate detachment and it got hit notably hard here. Starscythe deep strikes are useless now and sunforge deep strike bombs, which were the main reason to even run the detachment got a nearly 40% damage reduction...
Rip Tyranid Mawloc and the strat that let them pop up within 3” and causing mortals..
Wait, they released the data slate before the other detachments are out?
Dose the +1 to S in 12" Stack with the +1 to wound from oath?
yes it would, you can stack characteristic bonuses with hit/wound roll modifier bonuses.
Well infernus in firestorm assault are real good now wounding t5 in 2+ and vulkan for rerolls
@@StarvingBrainand ap buffs.
So shortened blade is now 2cp for a 6inch deep strike that you still can't charge after? Yeesh they really said fuck the Tau huh?
So they nerfed Hypercrypt legion. First the 3" deep strike nerf and then also taking away one unit to hyperphase. People were already talking about if it was worth using hypercrypt, now with Starshatter Arsenal released. I'd expect everyone playing Starshatter now.
Annihilation is a good change but not enough to see anyone play it competitive.
Bolt Rifles aren't a 30" range?
You forgot two new complete datasheets for Orks
Most factions got spit on. Chaos for most part in this.
Since poster boy is space Marines got all the love to top tier with changes
Admech players don't want simpler rules. We like the complexity, it's why we got into Admech!
I think they went to hard on miracle dice. I see it going back to one per player round.
I am happy with Khans upgrade, white scars still need generic biker character.
Custodes changes for bikes are rad.
This is so insanely obnoxious.
I wish I would have known that changes were made this often to 40K before I got into it.
I bought my first army back in October, only to have my points changed and my list made illegal due to it, now hypercrypt catches another nerf and all before I even get a game in.
This is fucking ridiculous.
Hey big fan love you guys but would really like if you showed the stuff so we could read along
Let's gooo tyranid win!!!!!!! Sad trygon days
Man if only baneblades could have the squadron keyword...
They've gone too far with Sororitas, especially BoF. It's not like they were winning everything.
First they break cadia... Now increase the cost of cadians.... My purple eyes are crying
do you think its ethical that you compete in competitions despite having an advantage over your opponents by working with GW and having input and early access to the rules?
I personally go to tournaments for fun. I wouldn’t mind playing them at a tourney. It’s still the same rules.
Templars werent even given the respect of just a mention that nothings changed 😂!
What about Tau's ussles strategem now ? taht enable deep strike on 6 for 2 cp :P
one thing you guys forgot about with Daemons, though essentially you talked about the overall deep strike rule but, the Daemons strat which allows deep strike 3" away the strat would now be 6" away which essentially wouldn't matter if you are in shadow cause you can do that anyways. I am curious if you use that strat can you now charge if you do that? if not I would imagine that strat is never used.
Great call, I guess the only time you would is to drop something that has shadows like belakor where you don't have shadows so you can then drop more things closer?
So glad I'm jumping into daemons now 😂
@@Barkeep014 yea but to that point if you use that strat you can't charge so why not DS at 9" away bring in others 6" away and then all can charge. yea weird ruling. hopefully we get an update to that.
@@CursedCowboy this is why you're going to coach me into daemons 😂
@ haha happy to help!
When are these changes coming out? I havent seen it on the app for the costodes yet.
Make sure you updated the app
@ I just deleted and redownloaded it and I don’t see it
Any chance the new sisters detachment will make up for GW killing our faction? Somehow I doubt it, GW seems to have it out for us since codex release
Not first!
As a guard player I must say: "fuck".
with the changes to the tank commander Lord Solar is not as important as he was before....in my opinion, i think we gonna see a lot more tank commander heavy lists
As a guard player i laugh. The bigger issue is Catachan going up in points, Hellhounds going up
And chimeras going up as well :(
people don't like balance lol , you lose aquilons you gain codex and a bunch of new toys, such is life
@@Badbufon That might sound justifiable for you but units of Chimeras and Catachan infantry aren't heavy hitters nor were they being spammed. Arbitrarily raising point costs and not accounting for a real change doesn't create more balance. And if anything, GW may decrease them several months from now - for no real good reason. The constant point changes doesn't address real problems, it is just done to shift sales.
The change in deep strike I don't like at all unless you can charge.
Deep striking in of itself unbalances the game. When you have units that circumvent game mechanics like normal movement and they get to evade all of the shooting and just pop up somewhere, it doesn't make for a better game. Unfortunately GW has written certain factions to where they do this as part of their core mechanics.
The game as mostly degenerated into super characters and melee. The garbled mess of ruins is fine for cover from shooting but just reduces it all to who can charge and strike first. Early editions had it right, you needed to use a variety of unit types to win not just a primarch and a retinue of heroes.
@@ColonelHoganStalag13 what are you talking about the majority of top tier armies are not even melee based nor deathstar based.....deepstrike is a required mechanic because unless you have like 80% of the boarder covered in LOS blocking terrian shooting is by definition an uninteractive mechanic that is quite literally just a complicated version of coin flip simulator. i love how you say it unbalances and circumvent the game when it is one of the only mechanics in the game that has actual interaction and skill and it ONLY circumvents a mechanic that has no interaction or skill aka shooting.
They killed my sisters. Gotta change to Eldar for now.
cant order my baneblade chaise very sad boy hours, time to take my shadow sword out of my list
Do speed freaks just not even exist to GW.... I've been waiting for ages for a number of fixes on my orks... and they haven't even touched it.
sisters are getting some devastating changes. The massive reduction of miracle dice hurts in all the detachments but AoF is gonna be close to not playable. The change to 6" to get the +1 str in BoF is gonna hurt way more than the strat changes. PH is still a weird one to play and forces you to take a handful of units. So I guess most sisters players are gonna have to go back to index to have some ability to be competitive. It's kind of insulting to get the points increase on our tanks with the other changes.
there is no way sisters will be competitive it be better just to trash can the codex and go back to the index at this point. Mircale dice are a very mid tier army rule now hallowed martyrs is a bad detachment rule with some decent starts because we are t3 1w bodies are units dont survive at below half strength lol. so we have very mid tier rules now on t3 1w bodies and we have basically the highest pts in the game for what we get just compare 85pts zerphyrim to 75 pt assault marines and it not even close.... and the problem with PH is not the units it is the units are over priced and the "doctrines" just dont work. like the doctrines in theory are good but would be way better as strats that you can use when needed not something you have to spend THREE battle rounds to go through as a mostly high pt cost fragile army. like o you let your slow fragile melee units go fast? well now their dmg is meh. well lets just assume ur opponent is bad or your playing on a extremely heavy cover board so you used ur movement doctrine to move up to mid field and managed to stay out of los AND/OR charge range. now you can charge next turn with ur dmg doctrine and do some dmg okay so how exactly our you going to survive their turn to use ur last one? fight on death? o you cant. so there is no way to actually use all 3 of your doctrines and the only way repentina are paying for themselves at 180 is using all 3 doctrines. like you reasonably would have to charge up kill something and the fight on death and kill something else. like if engines were down to 60 repentina down to 140 and acros down like 120 but at current cost just maxing acros and repentina puts you at 1k pts already that is a 3 very fargile units and 3 okayish tough units with no characters and both have pretty avg dmg into their intended targets
Spoilers siztere only got more point increase
Is this an overall buff or nerf for Heavy Intercessors you think?
absolute buff, they probably could of been 100points for 5 but the damage 2 is a great change for them
I thought Tyranids was going to get more changes
Okay firstly
Norn assimilator has harvester!! It can assimilate!
Secondly
Guilliaman looks awesome!
Thirdly
How tf did they fail AGAIN to make changes to first company task force? Sternguard have reroll wounds against oath target which in general is dope.....but the detachment rule is reroll wounds 😅 and sternguard are vets you want to take
My one whine about all this:
the REAL hot take: all spacemarines are always given better rules, better abilities, better datasheets and lower points costs and more frequent range updates than every single other faction.
I wanted to play Warhammer 40K, not Spacemarine 40k
Yo sister's player here this is sad gw thanks for tanking another army I play iam done with this shit
New rules say OC can never drop to 0
Where does it say that? I am just seeing it saying OC cannot be less than 0
WHy does gw hate marines so much. As a templar player I feel like my army is just getting hit over and over again. I already dont have a great win rate, this has made me not wana play my marines
Wow, I'm so glad I literally just started collecting sisters. I haven't even used them yet, and they get heavy nerfs. How fun
Don't worry, they will almost certainly be undoing some of these nerfs in the next 3 months or so when Sisters has a
It really sends the message to not invest in their game. It's a bold business strategy Cotton, let's see how it plays out for them!
this is why my models are 100% 3d printed. their balance is so dg sht because they are so slow and behind they basically did not take into account at all how they were playing after the october pts cost just people were like "o these rules are so strong" yea but we pay the highest pt cost in game for t3 1w models so we need strong rules...... o u nerfed the rules so we going to see zerphyrim go down to like 55pts rights and rets down to like 105 right? o no they are staying at 10-50% higher pts than similar marine units that have better rules better detachments better weapon choices and t4 2ws okay..
Well of course Penitent Host was buffed while everything else was nerfed. They need to sell all those SoB Christmas Boxes that no one bought. Saw that one coming. GW is so predictable.
Sisters are dead
In fairness the sisters dev wounds should and plus 1 to wound should if always been that way space marines fire storm dev wounds has always been 2cp and plus to wound required 6 inches
Yeah, but Fire Storm keeps their +1S in 12"
@kazamiagame3523 I don't agree with that change just the change in starts like all the other dev wound stuff is 2cp even grey knights and theirs is only melee that could be 1cp. Sisters was hit extra hard cause the rules team failed initially and they have been going nuts. With the miracle dice changes this is kinda over kill
Mounted needs to loose pivot
Sister players really be acting like necron players were when ctan first went up in points
Orks playing defensively are not real orks
If sisters points aren’t dropped, they are going in the cupboard. Time to unbox my custodes!
I think sisters are just a dead army atm. they were what a 52% win rate army before and now they got their 2 best detachments gutted and their army rule gutted? think this is a over reaction from their release in the summer. They already got massive points raises to make them pay for their strong rules and if gw wanted to take power from the rules to bring them inline with other books that fine but you have to undo the pts increase now. i suspect this army is probably mid 40% win rate now why is a Ret squad more than Dev squad now? why is a zerphyrim squad more than assault squad? how is a castigator 40 MORE points than either predator tank? So all of our new detachments are just awful at this point why not just throw the book out and go back to the index lol? atleast we can play Martyrs then with insane point cost....
40K players hating on MD is always so funny. People are fine with all sorts of "re-roll everything" and +X to a die roll rules, but using your entire Army Rule to generate limited MDs with random results (we don't get auto-6s like people pretend we do) that we can use on a limited set of rolls once per phase per unit (or twice if you don't want a detachment rule!) is somehow unbelievably busted on our frail girls with terrible weapons.
Marines get to pick a unit, *any unit*, in the opponent's army to get absolutely mashed, gutted and annihilated with no recourse. Two with Gully Stu.
Sisters get... *checks notes* a few random dice that *might* result in a single auto wound or passed save. For one model. In one phase. And we just wound up with a fricktonne less.
We have lower toughness, half the wounds, and worse guns than the marines. And cost more points.
I get there may have been a needed nerf or two... At least before we started seeing some of the xmas detachments... But this is a kick in the teeth the more I think about it.
Armor of contempt change was the right move, no argument.
no it wasnt just swings the scale of an already shooting heavy edition to more even more shooting.
@@getjinxed7354AoC is the most used SM strategem. With captains having the free strat ability it wasn’t fun to play against an opponent who would use AoC every phase on multiple units when they already save on 3s
SM were already strong and now they’re WAY stronger
@@getjinxed7354 yeah it was. Stop being subjective about it.