Great film, very clear and concise. Your analysis is spot on. I play gypsy jazz and many of the top players know zero music theory, everything is learned by immersion and spoken like a language. The most important thing in learning music is listening, then reacting musically to what you hear, developing this skill is life long but really pays off the more you do it. So many players taught the theory way never develop the ability to swing or to react to the other players in a session.
Where are those immersive experiences available? As jazz becomes less of a popular music, school becomes a supplement to provide performance immersion. It's not an either/or thing: school helps to build up your technical facility, expose you to music you might not hear otherwise, and give you a large set of common patterns (music theory) so you can pick up the actual language more quickly. It's way easier to spot a ii-V7-I , then translate it across different instruments (piano, bass, horns, etc.) when you've put a name to it than if you had to learn it independently for yourself on two or three different instruments. Many folks these days don't have the luxury of playing only one thing.
Great points and totally agree! I think that supplementing with theory can speed up the learning by immersion process by providing context to the things you are listening too. Otherwise you have to come up with your own rules and systems to make sense of it all, which can be really draining. I just caution against over-indexing theory and letting your vocabulary and ear suffer.
As a metalhead for years I've been mindlessly learning licks without understanding them. Than I got fascinated with music theory and I've started mindlessly devouring any concept I've stumbled upon. Now I learn a lick and try to analyze what is going on there musically
My thoughts exactly. I've met so many people who think that learning by ear is too hard and that learning from a lead sheet is a short cut. I tell them it's exactly the other way round and they never believe me. Then they wonder why they don't sound authentic. Like learning French from a book and never hearing it spoken. It's all backwards. Anyway you've gained a subscriber here.
This is true, BUT frankly if you’re a music student, immersion is your responsibility, not your school’s. What the school teaches you is meant to supplement excessive listening to the greats
Yep! My profs were like: "okay, great--you know your scales, now go transcribe the recordings you love." They didn't have to twist my arm to get me to listen to the stuff I already listened to: just to get me to mix instrument and listening, which is a very different challenge than memorizing scales. _Everyone_ already has a set of recordings that are part of their psyche, whether it's Nirvana, Willie Nelson, Duke Ellington, Elton John, Ravel, or Count Basie. And the list keeps growing as you get older and meet more people. Now my problem is how to transport my record, CD, cassette, and digital collection. There's also a practical aspect to what you listen to: when you play with a group and you need to play something new, you buy the recording so you can learn it for the performance. At that point, it doesn't matter whether you like it or not--you have to know the music. You're always going to have to play stuff you don't know or don't love: the trick is to keep that to a minimum.
I totally agree! I just wish that music schools did a better job of teaching musicians HOW to build vocabulary, generalize it, and really hear it before playing it. So many musicians just move their fingers, either because they don't hear what they should play or they have nothing interesting to say. Both products of an underdeveloped vocabulary (and ear). This topic was never discussed at Berklee but I'm psyched that it's coming up here!
Agreed that music is not often enough treated as a language. Then again, language itself is often taught as a series of prescriptive rules, rather than a set of patterns. If you think of mechanically conjugating verbs like mechanically practicing common licks (that you haven't pulled from the recording yourself), then music and language are _very_ similar in how they're taught. Listening, transcribing, playing along, and performing are at the heart of music: you need to be able to hear it in your head to make the sound come out of your instrument. It's still not _easy_ , though: it takes a tremendous amount of time and energy to sit down with your instrument with hundreds of different albums you love, take them through several different keys, and distill them into your own voice. School gives you vocabulary and technical ability to do that, but you still have to do the actual work on your own. If school is guilty of anything, it's in providing a false sense of mastery: "this degree means I don't have anything more to learn."
Preach! This is such a good breakdown of the process and love this quote, "you need to be able to hear it in your head to make the sound come out of your instrument. It's still not easy , though: it takes a tremendous amount of time and energy to sit down with your instrument with hundreds of different albums you love, take them through several different keys, and distill them into your own voice." I want to quote you in my next video, so good!
Actually, thats NOT fine even if you are classical musician. Old classical musicians were trained in improvisation. If you want to be real, hardcore classical musician you need to learn to improvise/compose in old classical styles (there are many of them). ❤
@@ChrisLoMusic Yep, there was a whole sistem of education and special method (partimento) that unfortunately they started to remove bit by bit cca. in second half of 19th century. But, we are living now in times when classical musicians are starting to rediscover that method and there are classical musicians who can improvise and compose in old styles. 🩷
Great film, very clear and concise. Your analysis is spot on. I play gypsy jazz and many of the top players know zero music theory, everything is learned by immersion and spoken like a language. The most important thing in learning music is listening, then reacting musically to what you hear, developing this skill is life long but really pays off the more you do it. So many players taught the theory way never develop the ability to swing or to react to the other players in a session.
Where are those immersive experiences available? As jazz becomes less of a popular music, school becomes a supplement to provide performance immersion. It's not an either/or thing: school helps to build up your technical facility, expose you to music you might not hear otherwise, and give you a large set of common patterns (music theory) so you can pick up the actual language more quickly. It's way easier to spot a ii-V7-I , then translate it across different instruments (piano, bass, horns, etc.) when you've put a name to it than if you had to learn it independently for yourself on two or three different instruments. Many folks these days don't have the luxury of playing only one thing.
Great points and totally agree! I think that supplementing with theory can speed up the learning by immersion process by providing context to the things you are listening too. Otherwise you have to come up with your own rules and systems to make sense of it all, which can be really draining. I just caution against over-indexing theory and letting your vocabulary and ear suffer.
Yes! So many people lack the ability to listen and react because they are thinking about scales and theory.
As a metalhead for years I've been mindlessly learning licks without understanding them. Than I got fascinated with music theory and I've started mindlessly devouring any concept I've stumbled upon. Now I learn a lick and try to analyze what is going on there musically
Same! Thanks for sharing!
This is a crucial no one talks about .
thank u for sharing ur perspective, not only is the easy way more efficient but it is also more fun to learn from than the hard way
100%
My thoughts exactly. I've met so many people who think that learning by ear is too hard and that learning from a lead sheet is a short cut. I tell them it's exactly the other way round and they never believe me. Then they wonder why they don't sound authentic. Like learning French from a book and never hearing it spoken. It's all backwards.
Anyway you've gained a subscriber here.
It’s so backwards! 🙏
This is true, BUT frankly if you’re a music student, immersion is your responsibility, not your school’s. What the school teaches you is meant to supplement excessive listening to the greats
Yep! My profs were like: "okay, great--you know your scales, now go transcribe the recordings you love." They didn't have to twist my arm to get me to listen to the stuff I already listened to: just to get me to mix instrument and listening, which is a very different challenge than memorizing scales. _Everyone_ already has a set of recordings that are part of their psyche, whether it's Nirvana, Willie Nelson, Duke Ellington, Elton John, Ravel, or Count Basie. And the list keeps growing as you get older and meet more people. Now my problem is how to transport my record, CD, cassette, and digital collection.
There's also a practical aspect to what you listen to: when you play with a group and you need to play something new, you buy the recording so you can learn it for the performance. At that point, it doesn't matter whether you like it or not--you have to know the music. You're always going to have to play stuff you don't know or don't love: the trick is to keep that to a minimum.
I totally agree! I just wish that music schools did a better job of teaching musicians HOW to build vocabulary, generalize it, and really hear it before playing it. So many musicians just move their fingers, either because they don't hear what they should play or they have nothing interesting to say. Both products of an underdeveloped vocabulary (and ear). This topic was never discussed at Berklee but I'm psyched that it's coming up here!
good video. will start right away with the first i.
Thank you! Enjoy the journey!
Agreed that music is not often enough treated as a language. Then again, language itself is often taught as a series of prescriptive rules, rather than a set of patterns. If you think of mechanically conjugating verbs like mechanically practicing common licks (that you haven't pulled from the recording yourself), then music and language are _very_ similar in how they're taught. Listening, transcribing, playing along, and performing are at the heart of music: you need to be able to hear it in your head to make the sound come out of your instrument.
It's still not _easy_ , though: it takes a tremendous amount of time and energy to sit down with your instrument with hundreds of different albums you love, take them through several different keys, and distill them into your own voice. School gives you vocabulary and technical ability to do that, but you still have to do the actual work on your own. If school is guilty of anything, it's in providing a false sense of mastery: "this degree means I don't have anything more to learn."
Preach! This is such a good breakdown of the process and love this quote, "you need to be able to hear it in your head to make the sound come out of your instrument. It's still not easy , though: it takes a tremendous amount of time and energy to sit down with your instrument with hundreds of different albums you love, take them through several different keys, and distill them into your own voice." I want to quote you in my next video, so good!
This changes everything!
Amazing to hear! Thanks for watching!
This is great information.
Would love a video on singing the notes!
Thank you and heard!
Loved the new perspective.. Keep going !!
Glad you loved it and thank you for the encouragement!!
Would it be possible to make a video that demonstrates many of these in a specific context (e.g., a specific tune)?
Absolutely, I will make that my next video! Thanks for the suggestion!
Sick
🙏
tam-tam-tadam-taaam
😂
Ear training video please
Actually, thats NOT fine even if you are classical musician. Old classical musicians were trained in improvisation. If you want to be real, hardcore classical musician you need to learn to improvise/compose in old classical styles (there are many of them). ❤
I love that! I bet Bach could improvise like none other.
@@ChrisLoMusic Yep, there was a whole sistem of education and special method (partimento) that unfortunately they started to remove bit by bit cca. in second half of 19th century.
But, we are living now in times when classical musicians are starting to rediscover that method and there are classical musicians who can improvise and compose in old styles. 🩷
Great video btw.!!!! Everything you said is similar to how they learned music in 17th, 18th century...🩷🎵