BECMI - Tell me you don't play a thief class without telling me you don't play a thief. B/X has 14 levels total and BECMI had 30 where the thief class abilities get stretch out. I'd also suggest one of the first retroclones, Castles & Crusades. All the AD&D feels but streamlined. It's siege mechanic is just overwritten, that's all.
1 - Ill def check out Castles and Crusades... i did not play AD&D as a kid because it was too much too read and too intimidating for my small attention span but I probably would have loved it and 2 - I've actually NEVER played a thief personally. So you got me. lol... thanks for your comment!
BECMI has 36 levels, not 30. I originally hated how "useless" thieves felt with their low percentage chance of success on many abilities, but that changed when I started to look at them as borderline-supernatural abilities. Climbing smooth surfaces for example, allowed them to climb almost Spider-Man-like on surfaces that others would find impossible to climb. Any other surface that a normal character had a chance to climb, a thief could scale automatically. Same with Move Silently. Any character can move silently in certain situations, and in those situations, a thief automatically succeeds, but only a Thief can run across dry leaves sitting on loose gravel without making a sound. Viewed that way, their low chance of success becomes more palatable (at least to me) because it allows them to do things that are essentially impossible.
All solid suggestions. I like OSE (b/x clone, so BECMI but stops at 14th lvl) I really like Adventure, Conqueror, King another basic D&D clone but reworks the AC system and adds a lot of Domain level play stuff. My advice try all the free stuff and steal ideas from everywhere since most old school is roughly compatible. subbed.
OSE is a B/X clone not a BECMI clone, two different systems beside the level cap. B/X also known as Moldvay Basic came out in 1981. BECMI also known as Menzer Basic came out in 1983 and has extra products for up to level 30.
Basic Fantasy rocks. It has recently updated to 4th edition which means additional monsters, some new artwork, and still compatible with all the earlier versions of BFRPG.
4th edition is mostly meant to get away from D&D Open Game License due to the fiasco a year back when Hasbro/Wizards of the Coast tried to revoke that license for something they could monetize. BFRPG hasn't change that much, and if you have 3rd edition, just keep using that. 4th Ed was more of a legal licensing move and dropped D&D Open Game License in favor of Creative Commons license@@ClassicRollPlayer
I'm surprised, when you mentioned BECMI, that you didn't mention it's one big compilation book, the Rules Cyclopedia. It has a print option on DTRPG, and is the single go-to choice for that system. Always nice to see AFF get a mention!
I enjoy superhero 5e, I enjoy blood-in-the-mud OSR, and I enjoy everything in between. I love how there are so many awesome fantasy TRPG rules available to us to cover just about all the spectrums imaginable. Life is good!!! Cheers!!!!!
Thanks for the video. Love these games. I tend more toward the "rules light" genre rather than anything that is true old D&Dish stuff, so FTD is a winner as it's fleshed out cousing Shadowdark. What I like about FTD and SD is they can play old school modules just fine (adjust the HPs down to old school levels and/or just remove the CON bonuses for each HD). Basic Fantasy is cool for that too, and EVEN if you don't play BF, you should checkout their adventures. They adapt pretty easily to any OSR type game. OSE should make the list too. The editing is fantastic. The price is high but every once in a while the PDF is on sale. Wait for that if you cant stomach the prices. And... don't shoot the messenger, but 5e Essentials Kit rulebook pdf is still available for FREE. It is streamlined and if you used just this to play a 5e rules light, you can get the feel of OSR with a few gritty rule mods (reduce healing to OSR levels, remove the con bonuses for HPs for characters and monsters, and return the monsters to OSR HD and hit points with no con bonus etc).
FMAG is a reworking of the original Swords & Wizardry White Box, a clone of the original D&D with the thief class added. The higher price on Drive thru is the hardcover. They do the paperback cheap too
@@finger3181 thanks for the comments! I appreciate it but I do not see the cheaper price on DriveThru.... Im literally seeing the "Softcover, Premium Color Book (5.5" x 8.5")" listed for $20.69 Do you see the cheaper price?! Maybe I get a special "premium" price
@@ClassicRollPlayer It is. I love the entire feeling it gives off. Interestingly, I discovered it through the Warlock of Firetop Mountain game on Steam, which is pretty faithful to the original game book.
1:58 "Ugh... I hate Bargle." Words spoken by anyone who played BECMI (often accompanied by "I loved Aleena.") Like many people, I started with BECMI, but I left D&D behind because I disliked Hit Points and, in particular, Vancian magic. In recent years, I have had as nostalgic urge to play again, however, digging out my Rules Cyclopedia (I stupidly got rid of my boxed sets last time I moved). I did enjoy 5 Torches Deep, but they turned me off a bit with their rant in the back of the Origins book, so when I want that D&D-style gaming, I prefer to go to something like OSE, ICRPG, or Shadowdark.
@@ClassicRollPlayer it essentially suggests that RPGs are inherently racist and calls out things such as the notion that orcs will never be as smart as an elf, ignoring the fact that a given orc could well be more intelligent than the average elf, depending on how one rolls and other factors. They don't consider that orcs being "less intelligent" might be related to a culture that places less emphasis on education, or simply doesn't have access to the same tools and information that elves and others do. They take the stance that every character should have the same potential in all things, so a halfling, for example, is just as strong as an orc and if they appear to be weaker, it's just because they have "bad luck" when applying their strength. This last part isn't in the book, but it is something one of the writers said when asked about it. I get what they are saying and why, but it is written in a "gamers are bad" manner.
@@jcraigwilliams70 now that you say that... I think I remember seeing that. I tried to scrub it from my brain ( Mothership does the same garbage ) ... I try and ignore a modicum of this nonsense. If it's too bad, like with the current WOTC stuff, then I completely bail.
Three more I would recommend, and all free I might add, are Olde Swords Reign, Shinobi & Samurai, and Mini-Six Bare Bones. 1. Olde Swords Reign is another free PDF with book sold at cost (like Basic Fantasy). The selling point here is that this game has some D&D 5E bits in it, like weapon and armor traits (longsword is "versatile" and does more damage if you use it 2-handed), and a "Proficiency" bonus that is just 1 number, but used whenever your character should get a bonus to a roll. 2. Shinobi & Samurai by Taxidermic Owlbear. This is a version of Basic D&D, but the deal is that it is set in medieval Japan. Hell, I even know of another free Samurai game called Whitebox Eastern Adventures by Tasaka Games, and that one is based on even older "White Box" rules. 3. Mini-Six Bare Bones. This is the classic West End Games D6 Star Wars, but simplified even more (only 4 attributes, not 6, and simplified combat sequence, though you can use traditional combat sequence if you want as an option). The game is meant to be generic, so you can use it for any setting, but a couple of knockoff settings are included in the back of the book. Settings like Willow, or Firefly/Serenity, and of course, Star Wars. They're not called those, but they're clearly meant to be those settings.
@@ClassicRollPlayer Just one minor update from a few months later. I updated my free Samurai game to another game called Kogarashi. It is not free, but Kogarashi is a much better game to me that uses just 1D6 really well for rules. Or, if you prefer old school D&D style Armor Class and D20 rolls, then Chanbara is a great Samurai game. Chanbara also has a mechanic for combat that has the "other stuff" like trips and disarms use Intelligence and Wisdom stats, along with a matching second armor class that uses your Intelligence and such. This is to make IQ based fighters viable, and avoid "dump stats".
haha... did you really play through all of those?! I'd love to hear more if so! We played a lot of basic into expert but never had guys long enough to move past those.
@@ClassicRollPlayer No, you caught me trying to be funny; I've never even met anyone who played Immortals organically. I got to Expert levels. I hate to admit it, but those last three books might be a meme. I've heard of people who rolled an immortal and just started there. I mean it would take years to make it from level 1 and then what? you just basically play a completely different game after you switch over to immortality? The idea is really fascinating, though. I think it just tickles the completionist part of my brain.
My first D&D book. Love the book, love the art. I can just sit and stare at it and feel good about life. But the rule kinda suck, once I started reading them again.
@@ClassicRollPlayer Well, like I said, it's a bit pedantic. OSR is a MODERN movement based around retroclones and recreating a playstyle and mechanics that are old-LIKE in some ways, but which are themselves new games made in a new context. It's a reaction to what was going on in the mid 2000s, but actual old games just made for sale again as PDFs or POD don't really qualify. Those aren't made in an OSR context, they're just old games made in a completely different context. Most hardcore OSRians (I am not one, but I can see their point) would not call BECMI OSR, or a reprint of some other non-D&D game as OSR either, or even games that hybridize old and new paradigms, like Five Torches Deep. They'd call them at best "OSR Adjacent" and suggest that they clearly grew out of an OSR-like sensibility, but they're not actually OSR anymore than Tunnels & Trolls or RuneQuest is actually D&D even though they grew out of the same movement back in the day themselves. The OSR as a label has become somewhat meaningless because it's become too inclusive, and anything that's vaguely "old feeling" or rules lite relative to 5e is considered OSR by people who aren't precise in what they call OSR. The OSR Simulacrum blog discussed this at length in a series of posts called A Historical Look at the OSR that is probably required reading for OSRians, I think.
Honestly, I think White Box is probably the best out of all these for its simplicity and the ability to expand/contract the rules per your own needs. It's also really easy to homebrew for, I think.
@@ClassicRollPlayer Good, I plan on trying it with my 5e players after ending current campaign. At least presenting it as an option. I have starter adventure, I may run it for them first.
It's relatively simple. Yet, at the same time, it still manages to be a skill-based system along with having special abilities. So it still retains such customization options. The combat also hinges on opposed rolls. Which eliminates the need for Initiative and cuts down the amount of rolls you do each turn. It's a good blend of content and quick play and there's a good amount of splatbooks out there if you want more goodies. My primary complaint would be the book layouts. They're pretty old-school so looking for a rule in the middle of a paragraph is an archaic throwback. I got used to it long ago so it's not too big of a deal for me. However, since I have the PoD books I'm not afraid of using a highlighter on some of them. Notably some of the monster special abilities listed in middle of their description paragraph, as a prime example. Fortunately the monster stat blocks are pretty small in the first place.
I love that us OG's are coming out of the woodwork and pushing back against the Tide of "Superhero" D&D!!
Great choices! I need to check out some of these. I also enjoy Olde Swords Reign and Dungeon Crawl Classics.
I talk about my new found love for Olde Swords in the follow up video I put out! It’s really good!
D&D Rules Cyclopedia (Basic) 9.99 on DriveThru RPG is all the OG D&D box sets in one book.
Good shout out thanks!
BECMI - Tell me you don't play a thief class without telling me you don't play a thief. B/X has 14 levels total and BECMI had 30 where the thief class abilities get stretch out. I'd also suggest one of the first retroclones, Castles & Crusades. All the AD&D feels but streamlined. It's siege mechanic is just overwritten, that's all.
1 - Ill def check out Castles and Crusades... i did not play AD&D as a kid because it was too much too read and too intimidating for my small attention span but I probably would have loved it and 2 - I've actually NEVER played a thief personally. So you got me. lol... thanks for your comment!
BECMI has 36 levels, not 30.
I originally hated how "useless" thieves felt with their low percentage chance of success on many abilities, but that changed when I started to look at them as borderline-supernatural abilities. Climbing smooth surfaces for example, allowed them to climb almost Spider-Man-like on surfaces that others would find impossible to climb. Any other surface that a normal character had a chance to climb, a thief could scale automatically. Same with Move Silently. Any character can move silently in certain situations, and in those situations, a thief automatically succeeds, but only a Thief can run across dry leaves sitting on loose gravel without making a sound.
Viewed that way, their low chance of success becomes more palatable (at least to me) because it allows them to do things that are essentially impossible.
Wow. That video talked to me. To the point, no BS, super clear. Subscribed.
Awesome, thank you!
All solid suggestions. I like OSE (b/x clone, so BECMI but stops at 14th lvl) I really like Adventure, Conqueror, King another basic D&D clone but reworks the AC system and adds a lot of Domain level play stuff.
My advice try all the free stuff and steal ideas from everywhere since most old school is roughly compatible.
subbed.
Thanks! Now I have new things to lookup!
@@ClassicRollPlayer I second this. I am running OSE right now and its really easy to run and play. Character creation takes 5 minutes or less.
@@perfectmachinegamessounds like a great future video! Thanks a ton!
OSE is a B/X clone not a BECMI clone, two different systems beside the level cap.
B/X also known as Moldvay Basic came out in 1981.
BECMI also known as Menzer Basic came out in 1983 and has extra products for up to level 30.
Basic Fantasy rocks. It has recently updated to 4th edition which means additional monsters, some new artwork, and still compatible with all the earlier versions of BFRPG.
thanks for the information! Ill be getting that right away!
4th edition is mostly meant to get away from D&D Open Game License due to the fiasco a year back when Hasbro/Wizards of the Coast tried to revoke that license for something they could monetize. BFRPG hasn't change that much, and if you have 3rd edition, just keep using that. 4th Ed was more of a legal licensing move and dropped D&D Open Game License in favor of Creative Commons license@@ClassicRollPlayer
Basic Fantasy is really good all the extra free stuff available and all the optional stuff you can use can’t be beat for me.
I'm surprised, when you mentioned BECMI, that you didn't mention it's one big compilation book, the Rules Cyclopedia. It has a print option on DTRPG, and is the single go-to choice for that system.
Always nice to see AFF get a mention!
I enjoy superhero 5e, I enjoy blood-in-the-mud OSR, and I enjoy everything in between. I love how there are so many awesome fantasy TRPG rules available to us to cover just about all the spectrums imaginable. Life is good!!! Cheers!!!!!
Thanks for sharing! I could not find this "blood-in-the-mud osr" ... can you point me in the right direction?
Thanks for the video. Love these games. I tend more toward the "rules light" genre rather than anything that is true old D&Dish stuff, so FTD is a winner as it's fleshed out cousing Shadowdark. What I like about FTD and SD is they can play old school modules just fine (adjust the HPs down to old school levels and/or just remove the CON bonuses for each HD). Basic Fantasy is cool for that too, and EVEN if you don't play BF, you should checkout their adventures. They adapt pretty easily to any OSR type game.
OSE should make the list too. The editing is fantastic. The price is high but every once in a while the PDF is on sale. Wait for that if you cant stomach the prices.
And... don't shoot the messenger, but 5e Essentials Kit rulebook pdf is still available for FREE. It is streamlined and if you used just this to play a 5e rules light, you can get the feel of OSR with a few gritty rule mods (reduce healing to OSR levels, remove the con bonuses for HPs for characters and monsters, and return the monsters to OSR HD and hit points with no con bonus etc).
Yes! Advanced Fighting Fantasy is my favorite as well. Was great to see you cover it.
thanks! I feel like so many people overlook this one, maybe its the book covers or something... I dont know.
I used Lulu to print B/X and BECMI books and my drill press for the hole punch. Turned out better than I remember the originals being -- good stuff.
great idea!
@@ClassicRollPlayer You ever mess with the Immortals stuff? I use to look at it and dream but never used the material.
@@dmmikerpg Ya same… we never made it that high
The reason DTRPG is selling the book for 20 vs Amazon for 5 is because DT has to print the book, and the price is accounting for the printing cost.
I'm laughing at your "going to the beach" scenario--I can totally picture it. Solid list, good video, thanks.
thanks much! yep, a campaign based on my life, lol.... ( if my wife and daughters would ever want to play dnd with me that is )
Know this, you are not alone!@@ClassicRollPlayer
@@tednovy7762😢
Great video. Thank you.
I recommend A Hero’s Journey. It is truly fantastic and the writing alone is world class. I highly recommend it.
I'll check it out!
I cannot believe you missed the entire Wretched OGL series.
Yes I've missed this one completely. I've played a solo game with the same title but have never looked at this one.
Basic levels 1-3 Expert 4-14 Companion 15-25. Never got past that so not sure for the master or immortal.
How was Companion?
@@ClassicRollPlayer I enjoyed it. It is where we started work on our castles/domains.
@@jaybakata5566 thats cool!
FMAG is a reworking of the original Swords & Wizardry White Box, a clone of the original D&D with the thief class added. The higher price on Drive thru is the hardcover. They do the paperback cheap too
Amazon only do the paperback. They also have 3 different cover options
@@finger3181 thanks for the comments! I appreciate it but I do not see the cheaper price on DriveThru.... Im literally seeing the "Softcover, Premium Color Book (5.5" x 8.5")" listed for $20.69 Do you see the cheaper price?! Maybe I get a special "premium" price
The premium colour is on better paper stock, Maybe they no longer offer the standard option. They definitely used to.
Basic Fantasy is cool. I also like Lion and Dragon.
I've not heard of Lion and Dragon, thanks for the comment and I will check it out!
Big fan of Basic Fantasy! I'm also enjoying Olde Swords Reign
I've never heard of that one... will check it out!
@@ClassicRollPlayer The current creator recently made the PDFs free, the two books are very cheap much like Basic Fantasy.
@@RollForTuraco getting it!
@@ClassicRollPlayer Awesome!
You should check out whitewyrm: a fantasy rpg. I've been told it's as if "D&D and the Fighting Fantasy books had a baby." @@ClassicRollPlayer
Advanced Crimson Dragon Slayer!
wow another one I have never heard of AND its free.... i got a lot of reading to do lol...thanks for the suggestion!
@ClassicRollPlayer Yeah, we're like roaches! Lol
@@VengerSatanis 🪳
There is a lot of supplements for White Box
B/X will always have a place on my shelf.
That said, AFF is my current obsession.
@@whangbar AFF is so cool!
@@ClassicRollPlayer It is. I love the entire feeling it gives off. Interestingly, I discovered it through the Warlock of Firetop Mountain game on Steam, which is pretty faithful to the original game book.
1:58 "Ugh... I hate Bargle." Words spoken by anyone who played BECMI (often accompanied by "I loved Aleena.")
Like many people, I started with BECMI, but I left D&D behind because I disliked Hit Points and, in particular, Vancian magic. In recent years, I have had as nostalgic urge to play again, however, digging out my Rules Cyclopedia (I stupidly got rid of my boxed sets last time I moved).
I did enjoy 5 Torches Deep, but they turned me off a bit with their rant in the back of the Origins book, so when I want that D&D-style gaming, I prefer to go to something like OSE, ICRPG, or Shadowdark.
Thanks for the comment!! I’ll have to check the rant now.
@@ClassicRollPlayer it essentially suggests that RPGs are inherently racist and calls out things such as the notion that orcs will never be as smart as an elf, ignoring the fact that a given orc could well be more intelligent than the average elf, depending on how one rolls and other factors. They don't consider that orcs being "less intelligent" might be related to a culture that places less emphasis on education, or simply doesn't have access to the same tools and information that elves and others do.
They take the stance that every character should have the same potential in all things, so a halfling, for example, is just as strong as an orc and if they appear to be weaker, it's just because they have "bad luck" when applying their strength. This last part isn't in the book, but it is something one of the writers said when asked about it.
I get what they are saying and why, but it is written in a "gamers are bad" manner.
@@jcraigwilliams70 now that you say that... I think I remember seeing that. I tried to scrub it from my brain ( Mothership does the same garbage ) ... I try and ignore a modicum of this nonsense. If it's too bad, like with the current WOTC stuff, then I completely bail.
Worlds Without Number
Three more I would recommend, and all free I might add, are Olde Swords Reign, Shinobi & Samurai, and Mini-Six Bare Bones.
1. Olde Swords Reign is another free PDF with book sold at cost (like Basic Fantasy). The selling point here is that this game has some D&D 5E bits in it, like weapon and armor traits (longsword is "versatile" and does more damage if you use it 2-handed), and a "Proficiency" bonus that is just 1 number, but used whenever your character should get a bonus to a roll.
2. Shinobi & Samurai by Taxidermic Owlbear. This is a version of Basic D&D, but the deal is that it is set in medieval Japan. Hell, I even know of another free Samurai game called Whitebox Eastern Adventures by Tasaka Games, and that one is based on even older "White Box" rules.
3. Mini-Six Bare Bones. This is the classic West End Games D6 Star Wars, but simplified even more (only 4 attributes, not 6, and simplified combat sequence, though you can use traditional combat sequence if you want as an option). The game is meant to be generic, so you can use it for any setting, but a couple of knockoff settings are included in the back of the book. Settings like Willow, or Firefly/Serenity, and of course, Star Wars. They're not called those, but they're clearly meant to be those settings.
Fantastic!!! I’ll be checking all these out, thanks!
@@ClassicRollPlayer Just one minor update from a few months later. I updated my free Samurai game to another game called Kogarashi. It is not free, but Kogarashi is a much better game to me that uses just 1D6 really well for rules.
Or, if you prefer old school D&D style Armor Class and D20 rolls, then Chanbara is a great Samurai game. Chanbara also has a mechanic for combat that has the "other stuff" like trips and disarms use Intelligence and Wisdom stats, along with a matching second armor class that uses your Intelligence and such. This is to make IQ based fighters viable, and avoid "dump stats".
My top 5 are: Basic, Expert, Companion, Masters and Immortals.
haha... did you really play through all of those?! I'd love to hear more if so! We played a lot of basic into expert but never had guys long enough to move past those.
@@ClassicRollPlayer No, you caught me trying to be funny; I've never even met anyone who played Immortals organically. I got to Expert levels. I hate to admit it, but those last three books might be a meme. I've heard of people who rolled an immortal and just started there. I mean it would take years to make it from level 1 and then what? you just basically play a completely different game after you switch over to immortality? The idea is really fascinating, though. I think it just tickles the completionist part of my brain.
Don't EVER disrespect Bargle the Magic-user ever again.
Sorry to offend but he’s a dirty murderous bastach …… 😂
sorry for me it is Holmes edition all the way
I get it!
My first D&D book. Love the book, love the art. I can just sit and stare at it and feel good about life.
But the rule kinda suck, once I started reading them again.
BECMI, and I know this is kind of pedantic, is not an OSR game. It's just an old game.
what do you mean by that? I would call it Old School for sure... ?
@@ClassicRollPlayer Well, like I said, it's a bit pedantic. OSR is a MODERN movement based around retroclones and recreating a playstyle and mechanics that are old-LIKE in some ways, but which are themselves new games made in a new context. It's a reaction to what was going on in the mid 2000s, but actual old games just made for sale again as PDFs or POD don't really qualify. Those aren't made in an OSR context, they're just old games made in a completely different context. Most hardcore OSRians (I am not one, but I can see their point) would not call BECMI OSR, or a reprint of some other non-D&D game as OSR either, or even games that hybridize old and new paradigms, like Five Torches Deep. They'd call them at best "OSR Adjacent" and suggest that they clearly grew out of an OSR-like sensibility, but they're not actually OSR anymore than Tunnels & Trolls or RuneQuest is actually D&D even though they grew out of the same movement back in the day themselves. The OSR as a label has become somewhat meaningless because it's become too inclusive, and anything that's vaguely "old feeling" or rules lite relative to 5e is considered OSR by people who aren't precise in what they call OSR. The OSR Simulacrum blog discussed this at length in a series of posts called A Historical Look at the OSR that is probably required reading for OSRians, I think.
@@spacerx gotcha, I see what you mean now, thanks. I would probably put myself in the category of being guilty of being too liberal with the term.
I have no plans to give my money to that woke WOC. They make garbage content and hate the original game. Like everything coming out from California.
Honestly, I think White Box is probably the best out of all these for its simplicity and the ability to expand/contract the rules per your own needs. It's also really easy to homebrew for, I think.
It's great and super cheap to buy a hard copy.
How do you make a whole video and not actually know the rules of the games you are talking about? JFC. Read the thing before you make the video.
So…. sub? 🤣
I heard AFF is very simple rules wise us that true?
VERY simple and intuitive and fun!
@@ClassicRollPlayer Good, I plan on trying it with my 5e players after ending current campaign. At least presenting it as an option. I have starter adventure, I may run it for them first.
@@IdiotinGlans Let me know how it goes!
It's relatively simple. Yet, at the same time, it still manages to be a skill-based system along with having special abilities. So it still retains such customization options. The combat also hinges on opposed rolls. Which eliminates the need for Initiative and cuts down the amount of rolls you do each turn. It's a good blend of content and quick play and there's a good amount of splatbooks out there if you want more goodies.
My primary complaint would be the book layouts. They're pretty old-school so looking for a rule in the middle of a paragraph is an archaic throwback. I got used to it long ago so it's not too big of a deal for me. However, since I have the PoD books I'm not afraid of using a highlighter on some of them. Notably some of the monster special abilities listed in middle of their description paragraph, as a prime example. Fortunately the monster stat blocks are pretty small in the first place.