59:40 That is an INCORRECT statement about the coefficient of restitution test! Just because the paddle is stationary doesn't mean it's closer to a small swing scenario (i.e. "pop"). Per Newton's 3rd law of motion, you could only say it is modeling "pop" if the cannon launches the ball at a speed that's approximately the same as the difference in velocities between a ball and paddle for a normal punch volley. BUT If it launches it faster - i.e. closer to the difference in velocity between paddle and ball for a drive, then it will model "power". What matters is the relative speed of the incoming ball at the instant before contacting the stationary paddle. To put it in simpler terms: A 100*mph ball hitting a stationary paddle is the EXACT same thing as a 100 mph paddle striking a stationary ball. And those are both the EXACT same thing as a paddle moving 50mph striking a ball moving 50mph in the opposite direction. *The numbers chosen are arbitrary - i have no clue what the actual velocities before contact are in the real life scenarios of punch volleys (pop) vs drives (power). Credentials: B.S. Mechanical Engineering, Lehigh University 2010
My point was that it's already complicated enough to effectively run COR tests on paddles at the scale needed for regulation, so it seems nearly impossible to make the situation even more convoluted by running a range of speed results on each paddle, and then deciding which metrics matter within that range. Because we've already found that power and pop do not necessarily scale together on the same paddle. So they're more likely going to choose one speed, and it'll probably be within the pop range (ca. 30-50 MPH), which is probably what matters most, because that's where it matters most to players: at the kitchen during fast hand exchanges.
@@johnkewpickleball It'll be interesting to see what they choose for their test parameters and I hope they indulge us with their rationale. I was only offering the technical clarification that the fact that the paddle is stationary is completely irrelevant, which seemed to be the basis for your "pop" theory in the video.
Also, with fast-twitch slow-twitch, all that is saying is you were born with with a certain make-up, what you have done in your life will change the characteristics of the muscle types pretty significantly. For instance, you mentioned hiking a lot, which would actually change some of your fast-twitch into having more slow-twitch characteristics (more mitochondria, more myoglobin, more co-enzymes, etc.) because it is an endurance activity. If you have said you had played hockey that would be on the opposite spectrum.
Excited to see the Joola paddles design. The EVA or whatever foam looks like it hit hard as hell. But I wonder what the control would be like. Eye protection might be the new thing this year
Do either of you have any exercises that target the mental part of your game? I have found mindfulness is helping but would really like to hear your thoughts.
What do you believe will be the gen 3 paddles; the newer kevlar surface paddles, the extreme power paddles (Gearbox-like) or something else entirely and why? Follow up: does the deflection test play a role in your decision?
SPIN POTENTIAL. It would be so great if you would do an entire episode on spin. New spin tech, spin that lasts, the possibility of exceeding 2500 rpm at some point in the future. Too much power could ruin pickleball, but more spin would only make the game that much more exciting. Imagine the impact on televised games. Drops and dinks would have so much more shape. Srewball serves could become more dynamic. Topspin lobs might become a more common tactic for offense. Hooking topspin could become even nastier...
I’d love to see what you think about the Nexus Phaze 1 Shroud paddle. I haven’t seen another design like it before. It’s a mix of the ProXr and Power Air. Two pretty sweet paddles combined.
Question: I get the limits on speed/power, but how do you feel about the current limits on surface roughness? (Grit, textures, or coatings) Other than shortening ball life, why would allowing spinier paddle be bad?
With what’s going on in the news of dB level complaints and the evolution of “gen-3” paddles. Do you believe the sound deadening will be incorporated with new “gen-3” paddles and compete with current spin and pop of Six Zero and Gearbox?
I know they are testing out a new serving rule where the ball must be dropped downward from hip height. For a backhand serve, this is a huge handicap since the non-paddle hand is behind you. The rule is fine for the forehand serve, since the non-paddle hand is in front of you. Does the wording of this proposed rule make any allowances for those using a backhand serve?
Hi John and Eddie. Thanks for the detailed reviews. My question has to do with technique versus paddle technology. Coming from a tennis background, when you look at pros that have powerful ground strokes, you see a lot more emphasis on technique and not a lot of discussion on racket technology, maybe some on strings and tension but mostly discussion is about the pros technique generating the power. We see that with Jack Sock. He uses the ‘pillow’ of paddles and gets plenty of power because of his technique. Do you think pickleball discussion of power will start gravitating more toward technique than technology in the future? Also, Isn’t what Jack is doing taking advantage of the best of both worlds, A soft paddle that he can reset easily with but yet generate all the power he needs because of his technique. Wouldn’t this be the idea set up to try for others that feel they can generate power through technique?
I played today with a new Vatic Prism Flash that you recommended and it was fantastic! Not a ton of power, but the control is great! Just so consistent with every shot, I’m very happy with it. I got disgusted with my Ruby last week. Lower 1/3 of the paddle is like a huge dead spot, so any off center block will just drop into the net. At 72 I’m not overpowering anyone so control and consistency is more important to me. And I found my hand speed improved a lot with the Flash from the Ruby too. Thanks again for the recommendation!!
Question for Next week.. Is it harder to transition from a 12-14mm elongated paddle to a 16mm hybrid or wide body paddle or vice versus? I have only ever played with a 12 and 13mm elongated and find myself nervous to switch. What should I be prepared to gain and lose?
@@johnkewpickleball Thanks! I love my first batch BDI but I'm just a bit curious if the change to enhance sweet spot will effect the super fast handling...
My Amethyst Infinity Black Diamond arrived in time for me to get in a quick against the wall session. OMG! It is everything you found missing in the first release and then a whole lot. Six.Zero truly hit it out of the park with this "little" adjustment! The handspeed is still there, it has more plow through/power, the pop is still there and it is simple to control with an improved sweet spot.
I just bought the BDi Amethyst and I’m switching from the Prism Flash. I’m really hoping it’s more of an upgrade than the reviews here suggest. I love the control I get with my flash but I would like just a little more power and pop. I’m really hoping I get that with the BDi without sacrificing too much control.
Not sure why people just don’t try the Flash as the upgrade over the PrismFlash. Way better IMHO. Start with the 16mm for more control and then the 14mm for more pop/power 🤓😎
I’ve only bought one sleeve of balls since I’ve started because somebody already has one and they’re supplied if you play indoors at a club type facility. Need some decent shoes that will support your feet. Take care of your with massages, etc are just as important as the shoes themselves. The paddle is such a personal choice. My last paddle was the one of the cheapest I’ve gotten but it’s the best. Find one that works!
Muscle fibers also change as we age and as we train/detrain. There is some residual power from learned activation programs we learn, but that is neuromuscular than fiber dependent. That said, if you are genetically predisposed to have a certain ratio per stimuli and you have a high stimuli (youth sports, active lifestyle) you tend to keep more/have more as you age than if you didn’t have said stimuli earlier on.
@@simplysimplemobiledetailin529 yeah I think either John or Chris from pickleball studio heard that they were gonna switch over but I never heard an update on that
Any chance you guys could do reviews on safety glasses? Prescription preferred, but it seems like there's a space for this type of knowledge especially as of late. Big brands, Online brand offerings (Zenni has some that are "reasonable"), and little brands. Thanks!
Hey Kew-ball... I bought the Shapeshifter with your code. I actually believe in the 18k surface as my current go-to is the new Diadem Edge 18k Power Pro (very good all court paddle). Looking forward to playing with it. Will be getting the Joola also. LFG!!
Good point about the balls. Legislating, balls would be an easier way to control power. The balls are inexpensive and the ball manufacturers probably have less influence than the paddles.
It seems like the paddle technology is off to the races. How long will it be before pickleball manufacturers answer the call for longer lasting, better playing pickleballs?? What do you think the top pickleball is right now? It seems like I've heard bad things about most all of them.
I play 3 hours 5 times a week...I am pretty athletic and pickleball in no way is very stressful for my body...compared to playing hockey or softball, the energy expended in PB is not much at all...if the games are intense, I may break a little bit of a sweat and that has something to do with the conditions indoors and how warm it is outdoors....playing outdoors in the heat does get a bit more sweat but I think it's because it is warmer and that creates extra heat...I don't play for weight control, I play because I love the game...If there are any health benefits, I will gladly take them
How many calories does metal drumming burn per hour? 😅 Thank you for using my question. I feel I’m on the slow twitch side so tend to play a slower, more control game. I’m trying to get into firing the ball more. And my wife and I ran as a way of dating.
I agree that we could come up with a better name than "Pickleball" (I've been calling it Pickle) but "Cornhole" has us bested for the most unfavorable sounding name.
The reality is that pickleball is not an activity where maximal exertion or steady state becomes a factor, so it will never be as efficient as other exercise modalities. It could, however, be a good gateway drug for people to become more interested in exercise and taking care of themselves.
They seem to be pulling through on warranty issues even with everything going on, one year warranty if you buy from them or an approved distributor, there are many buying from 3rd party sellers that then expect warranty coverage, not happening due to the new technology in the handle and registering it on Joola’s app, the biggest issue is still at hand, being pulled from the approval list.
question of the week...Do you think they should make a rule that any ball that strikes a person above the chest/shoulder level should be a loss of point/serve to the person who hit it????....since the game is so fast now and power players think hitting harder is the secret to winning, and now safety is a factor now, maybe some precautions should be made to keep the ball lower????
Or they can just move the the kitchen line back. I personally do not care about getting body bagged, it's currently part of the game. Also, folks at lower level don't have real control over their shots, they are not as accurate or consistent. I noticed how rules keep changing to penalize players innovative athleticism.
I’m going to say it… I don’t see the point of edge less paddles. Looks don’t justify what you give up. Aero benefits don’t seem “real” to me, especially if you put edge tape on it afterwards. Hard pass.
Thank you so much for these videos. These are so informative and will help me to decide my next paddle.
59:40 That is an INCORRECT statement about the coefficient of restitution test! Just because the paddle is stationary doesn't mean it's closer to a small swing scenario (i.e. "pop"). Per Newton's 3rd law of motion, you could only say it is modeling "pop" if the cannon launches the ball at a speed that's approximately the same as the difference in velocities between a ball and paddle for a normal punch volley. BUT If it launches it faster - i.e. closer to the difference in velocity between paddle and ball for a drive, then it will model "power". What matters is the relative speed of the incoming ball at the instant before contacting the stationary paddle.
To put it in simpler terms:
A 100*mph ball hitting a stationary paddle is the EXACT same thing as a 100 mph paddle striking a stationary ball. And those are both the EXACT same thing as a paddle moving 50mph striking a ball moving 50mph in the opposite direction.
*The numbers chosen are arbitrary - i have no clue what the actual velocities before contact are in the real life scenarios of punch volleys (pop) vs drives (power).
Credentials: B.S. Mechanical Engineering, Lehigh University 2010
My point was that it's already complicated enough to effectively run COR tests on paddles at the scale needed for regulation, so it seems nearly impossible to make the situation even more convoluted by running a range of speed results on each paddle, and then deciding which metrics matter within that range. Because we've already found that power and pop do not necessarily scale together on the same paddle.
So they're more likely going to choose one speed, and it'll probably be within the pop range (ca. 30-50 MPH), which is probably what matters most, because that's where it matters most to players: at the kitchen during fast hand exchanges.
@@johnkewpickleball It'll be interesting to see what they choose for their test parameters and I hope they indulge us with their rationale. I was only offering the technical clarification that the fact that the paddle is stationary is completely irrelevant, which seemed to be the basis for your "pop" theory in the video.
Also, with fast-twitch slow-twitch, all that is saying is you were born with with a certain make-up, what you have done in your life will change the characteristics of the muscle types pretty significantly. For instance, you mentioned hiking a lot, which would actually change some of your fast-twitch into having more slow-twitch characteristics (more mitochondria, more myoglobin, more co-enzymes, etc.) because it is an endurance activity. If you have said you had played hockey that would be on the opposite spectrum.
Are the tested paddles preproduction or production paddles as there can be differences? One aspect not compared, is price a a viable metric?
Loved this video! 😊
Excited to see the Joola paddles design. The EVA or whatever foam looks like it hit hard as hell. But I wonder what the control would be like. Eye protection might be the new thing this year
Do either of you have any exercises that target the mental part of your game? I have found mindfulness is helping but would really like to hear your thoughts.
What do you believe will be the gen 3 paddles; the newer kevlar surface paddles, the extreme power paddles (Gearbox-like) or something else entirely and why? Follow up: does the deflection test play a role in your decision?
SPIN POTENTIAL. It would be so great if you would do an entire episode on spin. New spin tech, spin that lasts, the possibility of exceeding 2500 rpm at some point in the future. Too much power could ruin pickleball, but more spin would only make the game that much more exciting. Imagine the impact on televised games. Drops and dinks would have so much more shape. Srewball serves could become more dynamic. Topspin lobs might become a more common tactic for offense. Hooking topspin could become even nastier...
I’d love to see what you think about the Nexus Phaze 1 Shroud paddle. I haven’t seen another design like it before. It’s a mix of the ProXr and Power Air. Two pretty sweet paddles combined.
Question: I get the limits on speed/power, but how do you feel about the current limits on surface roughness? (Grit, textures, or coatings) Other than shortening ball life, why would allowing spinier paddle be bad?
Great information, on the Luxx no wonder Sock doesn't play with it in singles and men’s doubles.
With what’s going on in the news of dB level complaints and the evolution of “gen-3” paddles. Do you believe the sound deadening will be incorporated with new “gen-3” paddles and compete with current spin and pop of Six Zero and Gearbox?
I know they are testing out a new serving rule where the ball must be dropped downward from hip height. For a backhand serve, this is a huge handicap since the non-paddle hand is behind you. The rule is fine for the forehand serve, since the non-paddle hand is in front of you. Does the wording of this proposed rule make any allowances for those using a backhand serve?
Hi John and Eddie. Thanks for the detailed reviews. My question has to do with technique versus paddle technology. Coming from a tennis background, when you look at pros that have powerful ground strokes, you see a lot more emphasis on technique and not a lot of discussion on racket technology, maybe some on strings and tension but mostly discussion is about the pros technique generating the power. We see that with Jack Sock. He uses the ‘pillow’ of paddles and gets plenty of power because of his technique. Do you think pickleball discussion of power will start gravitating more toward technique than technology in the future? Also, Isn’t what Jack is doing taking advantage of the best of both worlds, A soft paddle that he can reset easily with but yet generate all the power he needs because of his technique. Wouldn’t this be the idea set up to try for others that feel they can generate power through technique?
I absolutely love the Black Diamond Infinity! Has become my go-to paddle
Mine should be here tomorrow! 🤓😎
I played today with a new Vatic Prism Flash that you recommended and it was fantastic! Not a ton of power, but the control is great! Just so consistent with every shot, I’m very happy with it.
I got disgusted with my Ruby last week. Lower 1/3 of the paddle is like a huge dead spot, so any off center block will just drop into the net. At 72 I’m not overpowering anyone so control and consistency is more important to me. And I found my hand speed improved a lot with the Flash from the Ruby too. Thanks again for the recommendation!!
Great to hear that the Vatic PF is working for you!
Question for Next week.. Is it harder to transition from a 12-14mm elongated paddle to a 16mm hybrid or wide body paddle or vice versus? I have only ever played with a 12 and 13mm elongated and find myself nervous to switch. What should I be prepared to gain and lose?
Seems to be a lot of variables in your question. Always comes down to preference and what may be more suited for your game.
The Luxx with a decent amount of lead (3-5 inches or selkirk tungsten strips) absolutely hams the ball
Were you rating the refresh Black Diamond Infinity with the slimmer grip and perimeter weight change/ higher twist weight or the first batch paddles?
Hi, it was the first batch with the thicker handle
@@johnkewpickleball Thanks! I love my first batch BDI but I'm just a bit curious if the change to enhance sweet spot will effect the super fast handling...
My Amethyst Infinity Black Diamond arrived in time for me to get in a quick against the wall session. OMG! It is everything you found missing in the first release and then a whole lot. Six.Zero truly hit it out of the park with this "little" adjustment! The handspeed is still there, it has more plow through/power, the pop is still there and it is simple to control with an improved sweet spot.
I just bought the BDi Amethyst and I’m switching from the Prism Flash. I’m really hoping it’s more of an upgrade than the reviews here suggest. I love the control I get with my flash but I would like just a little more power and pop. I’m really hoping I get that with the BDi without sacrificing too much control.
Not sure why people just don’t try the Flash as the upgrade over the PrismFlash. Way better IMHO. Start with the 16mm for more control and then the 14mm for more pop/power 🤓😎
how would you rank the importance equipment to invest in? (shoes? paddle? balls? bags? glasses? etc.)
I’ve only bought one sleeve of balls since I’ve started because somebody already has one and they’re supplied if you play indoors at a club type facility.
Need some decent shoes that will support your feet. Take care of your with massages, etc are just as important as the shoes themselves.
The paddle is such a personal choice. My last paddle was the one of the cheapest I’ve gotten but it’s the best. Find one that works!
Muscle fibers also change as we age and as we train/detrain. There is some residual power from learned activation programs we learn, but that is neuromuscular than fiber dependent. That said, if you are genetically predisposed to have a certain ratio per stimuli and you have a high stimuli (youth sports, active lifestyle) you tend to keep more/have more as you age than if you didn’t have said stimuli earlier on.
Does the DBD still have the fine peel ply or did they switch to coarse?
I could be wrong but I thought it was the fine. Could be different after a certain date of manufacture though.
@@simplysimplemobiledetailin529 yeah I think either John or Chris from pickleball studio heard that they were gonna switch over but I never heard an update on that
Any chance you guys could do reviews on safety glasses? Prescription preferred, but it seems like there's a space for this type of knowledge especially as of late. Big brands, Online brand offerings (Zenni has some that are "reasonable"), and little brands. Thanks!
Eager to see CHEETAHS 20mm to release soon. Also the PLAYERS new"GEL" upgrade for a soft touch padde choice.
Hey Kew-ball... I bought the Shapeshifter with your code. I actually believe in the 18k surface as my current go-to is the new Diadem Edge 18k Power Pro (very good all court paddle). Looking forward to playing with it. Will be getting the Joola also. LFG!!
Haha, nice! Let me know what you think of the Shapeshifter.
Good point about the balls. Legislating, balls would be an easier way to control power. The balls are inexpensive and the ball manufacturers probably have less influence than the paddles.
It seems like the paddle technology is off to the races. How long will it be before pickleball manufacturers answer the call for longer lasting, better playing pickleballs?? What do you think the top pickleball is right now? It seems like I've heard bad things about most all of them.
Make me a paddle with power on one side and control on the other.
I play 3 hours 5 times a week...I am pretty athletic and pickleball in no way is very stressful for my body...compared to playing hockey or softball, the energy expended in PB is not much at all...if the games are intense, I may break a little bit of a sweat and that has something to do with the conditions indoors and how warm it is outdoors....playing outdoors in the heat does get a bit more sweat but I think it's because it is warmer and that creates extra heat...I don't play for weight control, I play because I love the game...If there are any health benefits, I will gladly take them
How many calories does metal drumming burn per hour? 😅
Thank you for using my question. I feel I’m on the slow twitch side so tend to play a slower, more control game. I’m trying to get into firing the ball more. And my wife and I ran as a way of dating.
A LOT, haha. Seriously, playing an hour of Mastodon burns probably twice as many calories as pickleball
I agree that we could come up with a better name than "Pickleball" (I've been calling it Pickle) but "Cornhole" has us bested for the most unfavorable sounding name.
The reality is that pickleball is not an activity where maximal exertion or steady state becomes a factor, so it will never be as efficient as other exercise modalities. It could, however, be a good gateway drug for people to become more interested in exercise and taking care of themselves.
First comment?..Let’s Go!
Never buy any Joola paddle again due to quality and warranty issues, unless you can afford to change paddles every six months.
They seem to be pulling through on warranty issues even with everything going on, one year warranty if you buy from them or an approved distributor, there are many buying from 3rd party sellers that then expect warranty coverage, not happening due to the new technology in the handle and registering it on Joola’s app, the biggest issue is still at hand, being pulled from the approval list.
question of the week...Do you think they should make a rule that any ball that strikes a person above the chest/shoulder level should be a loss of point/serve to the person who hit it????....since the game is so fast now and power players think hitting harder is the secret to winning, and now safety is a factor now, maybe some precautions should be made to keep the ball lower????
Go play squash.
Good question!
Or they can just move the the kitchen line back. I personally do not care about getting body bagged, it's currently part of the game. Also, folks at lower level don't have real control over their shots, they are not as accurate or consistent. I noticed how rules keep changing to penalize players innovative athleticism.
Yoola is claiming Gen 3. Hopefully the tech aligns itself with the title.
I’m going to say it… I don’t see the point of edge less paddles. Looks don’t justify what you give up. Aero benefits don’t seem “real” to me, especially if you put edge tape on it afterwards. Hard pass.