Do you guys think $250+ for "top of the line" paddles are sustainable for the long run of the game, or will paddle prices continue to rise even more? As someone who used to golf, it's starting to feel a lot like new golf equipment. Every year these companies hype up some sort of new tech to make sure we upgrade every year, but in reality there's very minimal change. With the new Gen 3's there is an obvious performance difference, but in general most of these new paddles seem to be solid but relatively similar. In golf I'd have to dish out hundreds of dollars for a new driver for sure, but at least I know it can last me years upon years without any noticeable decrease in performance. While on the other hand it's hard for me to reason with dropping $250+ on a paddle I know will have a significant drop off in performance after 6 months or so of regular play before I have to buy a new one. Love the podcast John & Eddie!
I think there are many people who play pickleball with plenty of disposable income. 250 dollars to have the best paddle on the market may seem alot but in comparison to other sports its a drop in the bucket. Howbout 15k for the best road bike on the market or the best tt bike on the market. How many paddles would that pay for?
I would like you and Eddie to discuss and perhaps show a bit of game play to highlight your different playing styles. I think Eddie’s comment about your differences was insightful as to why your scores may vary on some paddles.
@@meredithpriestley7872 I received my Apollo a couple weeks ago and I love it! I liked it from the start but I struggled with my control game at first. It's more poppy than my Prism Flash. However, after a few play sessions I really feel comfortable with it. Awesome spin, excellent sweet spot, good power and pop.
The Joolas are right at the limit of reaction time for pop. I think the AB was 38.6mph for a punch which puts it at 0.247 seconds. You've got up to 47mph punch before it'll break 0.2 seconds, which is a pretty great athlete. What these power paddles may do is force people off the kitchen line. If you take a step back (3 feet) that same Joola is now at 0.300 seconds, which will give some people time to react. If both sides are playing a step back, we're up to 0.353 seconds.... The power aspect isn't as much of an issue. If you see someone wind up you ought to have time to move. The serve won't be much of an issue. Even at 70mph, the full court is at 0.428 seconds.
The Volair M2F got jipped on bonus points by Eddie. When delivered it is packaged so nice and comes with eraser, extra grip and grip band and head cover…then they sent me a complimentary water bottle. After using your code the cost of paddle alone was just over $100. Great price. While a bottle of hot sauce is cool and might up your taco game, the M2F goods up your pb game. Should be worth two bonus pts. But now it goes head-to-head against $280 Gen 3, knocking out one of the two wide bodies in a sea of elongated/hybrids. David v Goliath
That breakdownbabout reaction time is Brilliant.! I am a counter attacker and love the fast pop of the "hot paddles" but human reaction time must be factored. I am a 40 year racquetball player and faster faster ruined the game. We can't make that mistake in Pickleball.
Now that a lot of people are starting to agree that we are currently at the power limit for paddles, what other innovations can companies do besides striving to be the hottest paddle on the market? What I really want is a paddle that can have it's surface replaced with new and different surface materials without having to replace the entire paddle.
Thanks John. Question for consideration. There is a lot of talk about limiting paddle power based on exit velocity. That's great but with the wide variation in ball performance do you think that if they are going to put limitations on paddles that they should (or will) also tighten the tolerances on approved/tournament balls such that the variation in exit velocity is more consistent across all "play". I'd be willing to bet (and interested if you could test) a Joola Maximus hitting an 85 degree X-40 will have slower speed than a DBD hitting a Dura based on the X-40 being so much softer.
Hi John! Love the Pod and I love listening to you and Eddie discuss everything there is to know about paddles. Truly a great listen on my way to work. My questions for the paddle contest are as follows: How do you see the pricing landscape for pickleball paddles evolving? Are premium paddles becoming more common? Do you think that smaller companies don't get the reconmgion they deserve despite them making similar quality paddles to these larger companies? In your opinion, what are some areas where the pickleball paddle market could see further improvement or innovation?
Bought my Kineon Pro last week after the mention and used the code. I’m looking forward to using it. I play with the Ruby and BD Infinity and prefer the Ruby for singles and BDI for doubles.
Hey guys. Question: How should drills and other forms of practice evolve as a player's level improves? There are so many "how to" videos now for Pickleball trying to help people get better, however they are obviously not all appropriate for every level.
Do you think that the muted sounds of gearbox and Joola gen 3 paddles compound the difficulty to react to their pop? I feel the Black Ace is easier to react to than the Gearbox because of being on opposite ends of the decibel spectrum
Too much hype on the Ruby more on because there weren’t so much competition. Now that the J2Ks & J7Ks are around, and that point per point, these new paddles have more to offer than just the price point, people really have to explore their other options. And thanks to people like you John, who strives to give us informative & entertaining content every time. Btw I just received the J2K Pro and loving it. But currently playing with my Dymon Mayhem, which also is relatively a new in the market of Kevlar. Mayhem is CORE KEVLAR as oppose to face kevlar. Im telling you this paddle is simply outstanding & amazing. I can’t put this down & constantly have to go back to it! And that’s coming from playing Selkirk & a loyalist for over 3 years !
now that gen 3 paddles are coming out with all this amplified power, what affect do you guys think this will have on eyewear at the pro and rec levels?
John Kew , watch the video back as you spin the Ruby at 16:10 and on for a few seconds. you can really see the shine of the smooth center where the surface has been hit smooth.
Another great podcast guys! Thank you! My question is around choosing a paddle now! I’m watching all these great paddles coming out now and I feel I’m like a kid in a candy shop. I’m wanting a new paddle but how do I choose, so many fit my criteria I almost pull the trigger on a paddle but then think I should wait just a bit longer to see what else comes out. So hard to choose one! Unluckily but at the same time luckily I just sprained my ankle and can’t play for a month so I have more time to choose. I wish I could play with all of them like you guys so I could see what I like best. All the reviewers are helpful but at the same time sometimes contradictory which leads to more confusion. Second part of this question is how can all these new paddle companies possibly survive with so much competition in what is a growing but still limited market. Thanks again for your pickleball wisdom!!
Hi John. Can you post the results as a table with all results. I am personally interested in seeing all paddles with your score for each category.i also want to see the scores without the x factor score included
I'm a hat guy. Looks good Eddie. Pork Pie's are my favorite. Rob was great in the booth. Looking forward for your guys take on the OM AERO. Again JOOLA has QC issues. Maybe a slower ball would be a easier fix for the "too much power" issue. Any tests using a indoor ball to see if the speeds come down?
the X-factor may have skewed the results but then again, I am a Ruby fan so I was disappointed that it didn't make the top 8...and PS thanks for the gift for my question of the week a few weeks ago!!!
John and Eddie, great podcast. Love the data you have on the paddles and balls. As you guys are going through the play downs with the paddles, a thought came up thinking bout all the data you have. My question is, have you thought about measuring the spin on paddles against different balls. e.g. would you get spin on an indoor ball versus an outdoor ball. In tennis, playing on clay versus hard court, certain ball play better. We wanted the fast balls on the specific surface in tennis. I bring this up, being in Canada, we play a lot indoor over the winter. Having played with indoor and outdoor balls inside, I noice a difference and wondering if there is enough of a difference in power numbers with paddles and different ball types. I am guessing you use mainly outdoor balls. If there was, it might skew the balls I bring to the court!
I have mained a Ruby for about 2 months and loved it so much. I recently just got the Azul (117 SW) and for some reason it is so head heavy that it is unusable for me. Wonder if anyone else had this issue
Question: if you could make your own paddle, using any one particular piece of any paddle: core, shape, surface, color, handle etc. into any combination/amalgamation of your own choosing, to fit your style… what would your paddle look like?
There is no doubt that we need to cap the power on paddles, but I’m wondering what your thoughts are on Pickleballs? What are the current standard for balls and who is setting the standards? Should we have balls designed specifically for temperature ranges? Obviously hitting an Anna Bright 14 mm or a gearbox paddle on a cold day in Denver is going to play a lot faster than the same ball and paddles on a hot day in Florida. Also, do you know of any technology coming out to make the ball quieter versus making the paddle quieter?
@johnkewpickleball, with the power going up and up, do you think strategy should shift to standing back and less kitchen rush? Seems they need to cap the power and allow more spin improvements.
With exit velocity caps on paddles looming, the next ways to push limits would be spin. Besides the varying grit levels (such as the Joola Gen 3), what new spin innovations would you like to see come to the paddle industry? Proton comes to mind when I think about this.
Composite power would be a logical descriptive term for the overall amount of force returned to the Pickleball that is struck by the paddle at various velocities, this would include both the swing speed of the paddle and the approaching velocity of the ball combined. My question is has there been any comprehensive testing of the energy returned to the ball in the form of velocity and grafted out the results based on various initial ball speeds. I would be curious to see if this graft would be a linear form or some other type of slope and how one paddle would compare to another.
If the USAPA adopts a coefficient of restitution that is either capped at or below the most powerful and popiest paddles out currently, will paddle companies shift their primary focus to improving test weight / sweet spot, lowering the default swingweight & static weight, and maybe even pushing for the coefficient of friction and surface roughness limits to be increased, ultimately trying to get the most power allowed while increasing the control, spin, hand speed, and durability? This would probably mean companies like Joola and Gearbox would just tweak their current designs instead of innovating, which is arguably what companies like Engage and PaddleTek have done.
After watching reviews of the ONI, are foam injected cores here to stay or will they be a failed experiment with the gen 2's being preferred? Even Dale from Six Zero has said that PU foams are not structural foams, and they will expand over time with heat.
Liked. Question 1: Regarding Eyewear, can you do a Q&A topic on WHAT TYPE of lens material and frame material is good enough for eye protection and what kind of lens material may be insufficient or even dangerous when used as eyewear protection? I see many people wearing regular glasses including with high index lenses on the courts and assume that they are protected. So this question will include what type of lens material are commonly out there? For example, I know that polycarbonate and Trivex is strong enough to protect. But what about other lens material? And can some lense material be actually dangerous if they shatter - will the send shards into the eye?
What is an acceptable variance in grit within a paddle manufacture? Why is QC not improved throughout paddle cycles? If you have tried hesacore grips, Do you think we will see companies building hesacore style grips into their handles out of the factory? Would be a decent differentiator in a sea of the same
With the paddles, the quiet technology will lead to slower reaction times since we will then rely on sight and not so much on sound. My question on the paddles is, "How do the Joola and Gearbox stack up to the Vice?" What is the difference since the Vice is not approved?
Question, is “foam” the official term for gen 3 paddle, seeing the joola and Vatic pro oni foam injection, which seems to be more of a gen 3 compared to gearbox pp?
Question for next week: Joola Gen 3s claim to increase spin via dwell time. Do you think this is specific to their propulsion core or will other Gen 3 foam core variants also have a similar effect? Looking at the Vatic Pro Oni paddle renders it makes me think that it would not have that trampoline/diving board effect… wondering what your thought are
On the pro circuit, with all of this power racquet technology coming out, do you guys think they are going to make changes to service rules to try to slow the game down or do you think they will put limits on legal racquet power? For instance I have heard that some are suggesting they move to a drop serve requirement.
This face-off is just the best! QUESTION- With a solid majority of pro pickleball players stating the new Gen3 Joola's and new GBX paddles etc.. are just over the enjoyable threshold of power for a strategic game, do you think we will see a shift of paddles moving back to GEN 2, or GEN 2.5? Or, will the game change more as other companies sell similar tech and things like eye protection will be required at tournaments? Will 3rd and 5th shots be more driven instead of dropped per average? THANKS AGAIN!
Having been using Ruby as your main paddle, do you have data on whether kevlar is more durable compared to raw carbon fiber? It would be great to see any comparison that you may have or see those kevlar tufts on your paddle? I main the Ruby as well. Thank you and keep up the great work!
People mention Kevlar face layers are softer/more flexible. The same is said by companies selling triaxial weave carbon fiber. How similar do these face material play and how does it compare to more standard carbon fiber weaves?
Thanks for the video! I also want to share my experience, I received my J2K pro last week, played two games over the weekend, it did not perform as well as J2K, maybe I will return it.
If the tennis world would have thought like you we would still be using wood racquets to play tennis matches. The game is going to evolve into a faster played game wheither you like it or not and down the road the dinking in the kitchen will be a thing of the past which means get on board or get left behind.
Is there any industry initiative to have key paddle specs stated on their packaging similar to the Uniform Tire Quality Grade (UTQG) in the automotive industry? For example: Static Weight, Swing Weight, Twist Weight, Grit Level, Grit Wear Resistance etc?
On the topic of eyewear and the growing issue of paddles becoming more powerful, what do you want to see In the eyewear market as far as technology goes? Like crbn releasing their pickleball glasses do you see people trying their own version of eyewear maybe even with different color tints to give a better contrast when playing.
Hey friends. I haven't listened to this yet, but looking at the time stamps I don't see the Spartus Apollo Kevlar paddle. Maybe you don't have your hands on it like the rest of us?
John since you have more history with the Infinity Black Diamond could you please share your thoughts on adding 4 grams (possibly 5 grams) of tungsten at the 4- 5 & 8- 7 O'clock points? My thoughts are that it would add minimal addition to the swing rate while improving greatly the twist rate and stability to the paddle, creating a better well rounded all court paddle. Thank both of you for your in depth and clear reviews. Brad
With all these new paddles coming out - almost all thermoformed. Is core crushing still something to worry about or have the manufacturers and paddle companies been able to limit that to a small percentage?
I've played with 3 kevlar paddles. The Ruby, Apes, and the Huarache X (for the last two weeks). The X for some reason feels considerably better in all aspects except for power against the Apes. Pretty much like you guys, I can have any paddle I want, I play about 12-15 hours a week at around a 4.0 level and I love the X carbon and the X Kevlar better. 😀
Have you ever measured the speed of the ball coming off a paddle and onto another paddle? How does the speed increase, since you can often use someone else's power against them?
It has become my view that paddle prefence is actually pretty personal. Unless the same ball is used everywhere (I don't see why there needs to be "indoor" and "outdoor" balls?) and ambient temperature is controlled, the pop/power/control values will be widely different. I have three paddles and I will swap between them depending on what is happening at the moment. Sometimes I love what I am getting from a paddle and sometimes hate it.
Seeing the differences in your thoughts on Kevlar paddles has been interesting. I own both the Pickleball Apes PLE S, as well as the Hurache X Kevlar. I found it fascinating that you thought the PLE S has more pop. Completely different experience for me for sure. I actually feel the Huarache Kevlar is poppier. Both great paddles, just a different feel. My question is, how much do you think variances in manufacturing has a role in how paddles play differently from the same company? Second question is, with these new foam core paddles, do you think the USAPA needs to possibly change how they test, such as testing out of the box, then again after two weeks, one month, and two months play? Looks like deflection must be changing over time, thus paddles passing initially might not pass after some time when they are hotter. Thanks and keep up the great reviews and content.
question for next week: do you think companies that are coming out with eva legal paddles like Ronbus (ripple) will change the game even further into a power orientated game? Or what is the next natural evolution as we went from gen 1 to thermoform, to kevlar hype trend, to propulsion core. What's next in your opinion?😊
Since new technology is able to produce increasing power like we see in the Gearbox and Joola Gen 3, and we know technology keeps advancing, do you think that professional pickleball will at some point have to put some sort of restriction or limit on the power that will be legal on tour?
Seems that off-axis hits with a wider paddle would suffer more twist. Seems errant twist is more a threat to a successful shot than errant deflection from a ball hit out at the tip of an elongated paddle. No?
I noticed that gen 3 paddles are going for mostly 16 mm with more pop while adding technology to give a softer touch so that you have more control. How about 13 mm n less ? My understanding used to be less thicker for more power and more thinker for more control. But now with the added core technology, gen 3 16 mm have more power than gen 2 paddles 14mm n 16mm. Is this because more pro players prefer using thicker paddles but want more power ?
So outta sync this week, maybe try couples counseling 😆. I agree, preferred paddle shape makes a big difference. I am moving from elongated to standard, and it’s been 3 weeks and I’m still getting used to it. I miss the extra reach, 1/2” is surprisingly noticeable, and i always think my sweet spot is higher which makes the paddle feel even shorter. I am much better at resetting though and notice the difference in twist weight, but mishits are the same since I keep expecting that little bit of reach. I have the Volair Mach 2 forza 14mm and Anna Bright Gen 3 Scorpeus in my backpack right now and I love them both, so do it Eddie! Testing the hurache-x too, everything I thought the Ruby would be, I like it and I’m excited to order the Kevlar version May 4th!
How should the pickleball industry handle an eventual rollout of exit velocity limits? If below some of the most recent offerings it would make those paddles illegal for tournament play. But a reasonable limit would likely be below what some of the newest or upcoming releases may deliver.
If the newest Joola’s do end up being the limit for power in paddles, high level players will still find a way to improve their game. As the sport grows, more and more people are playing at younger ages. Inevitably, there will be more competition among the upper echelon of players. Do you have ideas on what their play styles and strategies (and maybe even physical attributes?) will look like in the future? How will they differ from the current top players’?
@johnkewpickleball I love Excel just as much as I love pickleball. I see that you are using Tables with your data. When I looked at your bracket results on your website, I tried, unsuccessfully, to sort the data... which didn't work because you took a picture of the table. Next time before you take your picture of the table go to the "Table Design" tab and remove the ✔from "Headers" . That will remove the filter boxes from the headers, thus preventing false click attempts like mine and cleaning up the look of the table even more. I love the pod cast! I really wish the Spartus Apollo would have made the Kevlar comparison and I think the Proton Series One should get another look as well. So many paddles... so little time!
Potentially too John you could sell a copy of your excel s/s data that updates each time you add new paddles. That way we can open it in sheets/excel etc and filter what we want once purchased. You work hard, time to be rewarded! Zach the foot doctor gives us access for a year, check him out. Free is always good too 😂
Is there a good reason that even the high end companies like Joola are struggling with QC? The inconsistency of the grit on the production models of up to $300 paddles is kind of crazy.
Other QC issues (firsthand with the Joola Magnus) 1. Weight: My paddle came at 8.4 oz, above the range of 8.1 oz- 8.3 oz; 2. The grip size came at 4 1/2 in excess of the 4 1/4 as stated.
Is there a solve for the inconsistencies in ball manufacturing. The degradation and shape loss seems to be happening much faster now, with the increase in power from paddles.
In my experience, I have better spin with carbon fiber paddles on drives than on Kevlar paddles. Rolls, drops, and dinks however, I have more spin with Kevlar than carbon fiber. Everyone says I'm crazy or that it's just placebo. But also knowing that Eddie doesn't feel as much spin on the Ruby helps a bit. Mine are very used, so that has some to do with it, but I have never felt like I got great spin on drives and serves compared to carbon fiber faces
no love for the Maverix Havik-15mm Pro? Must be the weird hexagon shape not appealing lol. I think I only heard Brayden mentioned it amongst you, Chris & Will. Would love to have your thoughts on it if you haven't heard of Maverix since they've been around longer than the new companies you just mentioned
Might as well move to full EVA foam to level the playing field at this point. The VICE is proof that a single standardized EVA foam material can be used by all manufacturers, surface grit can be replaceable (like PIKL) and standardized by the PPA. Manufacturers can tweak shape, colors, weights much more easily and with less manual effort. Manufacturing would be much cheaper and paddles would be cheaper for the consumer.
Do you guys think $250+ for "top of the line" paddles are sustainable for the long run of the game, or will paddle prices continue to rise even more? As someone who used to golf, it's starting to feel a lot like new golf equipment. Every year these companies hype up some sort of new tech to make sure we upgrade every year, but in reality there's very minimal change. With the new Gen 3's there is an obvious performance difference, but in general most of these new paddles seem to be solid but relatively similar. In golf I'd have to dish out hundreds of dollars for a new driver for sure, but at least I know it can last me years upon years without any noticeable decrease in performance. While on the other hand it's hard for me to reason with dropping $250+ on a paddle I know will have a significant drop off in performance after 6 months or so of regular play before I have to buy a new one. Love the podcast John & Eddie!
I think there are many people who play pickleball with plenty of disposable income. 250 dollars to have the best paddle on the market may seem alot but in comparison to other sports its a drop in the bucket. Howbout 15k for the best road bike on the market or the best tt bike on the market. How many paddles would that pay for?
I would like you and Eddie to discuss and perhaps show a bit of game play to highlight your different playing styles. I think Eddie’s comment about your differences was insightful as to why your scores may vary on some paddles.
I'm very curious where the Spartus Apollo would land in your kevlar paddle face off!
Yes. I check your YT daily to see if this has been reviewed yet
I’m waiting too for the Apollo!
@@meredithpriestley7872 I received my Apollo a couple weeks ago and I love it! I liked it from the start but I struggled with my control game at first. It's more poppy than my Prism Flash. However, after a few play sessions I really feel comfortable with it. Awesome spin, excellent sweet spot, good power and pop.
The Joolas are right at the limit of reaction time for pop. I think the AB was 38.6mph for a punch which puts it at 0.247 seconds. You've got up to 47mph punch before it'll break 0.2 seconds, which is a pretty great athlete.
What these power paddles may do is force people off the kitchen line. If you take a step back (3 feet) that same Joola is now at 0.300 seconds, which will give some people time to react. If both sides are playing a step back, we're up to 0.353 seconds....
The power aspect isn't as much of an issue. If you see someone wind up you ought to have time to move. The serve won't be much of an issue. Even at 70mph, the full court is at 0.428 seconds.
The Volair M2F got jipped on bonus points by Eddie. When delivered it is packaged so nice and comes with eraser, extra grip and grip band and head cover…then they sent me a complimentary water bottle. After using your code the cost of paddle alone was just over $100. Great price. While a bottle of hot sauce is cool and might up your taco game, the M2F goods up your pb game. Should be worth two bonus pts. But now it goes head-to-head against $280 Gen 3, knocking out one of the two wide bodies in a sea of elongated/hybrids. David v Goliath
Great review, which was a great help in my choice of paddles,and I have ordered for the Body Helix X3.
Ditto on the power of anticipation! Cheers to you both!!
That breakdownbabout reaction time is Brilliant.! I am a counter attacker and love the fast pop of the "hot paddles" but human reaction time must be factored.
I am a 40 year racquetball player and faster faster ruined the game. We can't make that mistake in Pickleball.
Awesome review. Your review have helped me a lot and I am going to buy the Hudef Viva Pro Gen3.
Now that a lot of people are starting to agree that we are currently at the power limit for paddles, what other innovations can companies do besides striving to be the hottest paddle on the market? What I really want is a paddle that can have it's surface replaced with new and different surface materials without having to replace the entire paddle.
I saw a company is making stick on faces ...available imminently
Pikkl is doing stick on surface for the face.
Spin. Moaaaar spin!
Durability. Improve the freaking durability
$250 every 3 months is absurd
@@dominiquesydne3146 GREAT point. Agree. You should look at Proton.
Loving the shapeshifter. Picked it up after hearing you guys talk about it. Great paddle.
❤
Love mine too!
@@jfktoo5128 ❤
Me too ... came from a Gearbox Pro Power that I couldn't control. Shapeshifter a fabulous paddle.
@@jfktoo5128 ❤
Thanks John. Question for consideration. There is a lot of talk about limiting paddle power based on exit velocity. That's great but with the wide variation in ball performance do you think that if they are going to put limitations on paddles that they should (or will) also tighten the tolerances on approved/tournament balls such that the variation in exit velocity is more consistent across all "play". I'd be willing to bet (and interested if you could test) a Joola Maximus hitting an 85 degree X-40 will have slower speed than a DBD hitting a Dura based on the X-40 being so much softer.
Hi John! Love the Pod and I love listening to you and Eddie discuss everything there is to know about paddles. Truly a great listen on my way to work. My questions for the paddle contest are as follows: How do you see the pricing landscape for pickleball paddles evolving? Are premium paddles becoming more common? Do you think that smaller companies don't get the reconmgion they deserve despite them making similar quality paddles to these larger companies?
In your opinion, what are some areas where the pickleball paddle market could see further improvement or innovation?
Great playing against you last weekend Eddy!
Bought my Kineon Pro last week after the mention and used the code. I’m looking forward to using it. I play with the Ruby and BD Infinity and prefer the Ruby for singles and BDI for doubles.
Nice job guys!
I just got the j2k. It feels amazing. Came from an slk evo 2.0. The sweet spot is amazing.
Hey guys. Question: How should drills and other forms of practice evolve as a player's level improves?
There are so many "how to" videos now for Pickleball trying to help people get better, however they are obviously not all appropriate for every level.
I bought Thrive Azul last week. I just received it today. Just like what John said, I made the right choice.
Do you think that the muted sounds of gearbox and Joola gen 3 paddles compound the difficulty to react to their pop? I feel the Black Ace is easier to react to than the Gearbox because of being on opposite ends of the decibel spectrum
I got my Hudef viva pro gen 3 last week,l like the excellent control of it.
Too much hype on the Ruby more on because there weren’t so much competition. Now that the J2Ks & J7Ks are around, and that point per point, these new paddles have more to offer than just the price point, people really have to explore their other options. And thanks to people like you John, who strives to give us informative & entertaining content every time. Btw I just received the J2K Pro and loving it. But currently playing with my Dymon Mayhem, which also is relatively a new in the market of Kevlar. Mayhem is CORE KEVLAR as oppose to face kevlar. Im telling you this paddle is simply outstanding & amazing. I can’t put this down & constantly have to go back to it! And that’s coming from playing Selkirk & a loyalist for over 3 years !
now that gen 3 paddles are coming out with all this amplified power, what affect do you guys think this will have on eyewear at the pro and rec levels?
John Kew , watch the video back as you spin the Ruby at 16:10 and on for a few seconds. you can really see the shine of the smooth center where the surface has been hit smooth.
Mine is too. Center on both sides is smooth. Ordered a j2k 🤷🏼♂️
Another great podcast guys! Thank you!
My question is around choosing a paddle now! I’m watching all these great paddles coming out now and I feel I’m like a kid in a candy shop. I’m wanting a new paddle but how do I choose, so many fit my criteria I almost pull the trigger on a paddle but then think I should wait just a bit longer to see what else comes out. So hard to choose one!
Unluckily but at the same time luckily I just sprained my ankle and can’t play for a month so I have more time to choose. I wish I could play with all of them like you guys so I could see what I like best. All the reviewers are helpful but at the same time sometimes contradictory which leads to more confusion.
Second part of this question is how can all these new paddle companies possibly survive with so much competition in what is a growing but still limited market.
Thanks again for your pickleball wisdom!!
Hi John. Can you post the results as a table with all results. I am personally interested in seeing all paddles with your score for each category.i also want to see the scores without the x factor score included
I'm a hat guy. Looks good Eddie. Pork Pie's are my favorite. Rob was great in the booth.
Looking forward for your guys take on the OM AERO. Again JOOLA has QC issues.
Maybe a slower ball would be a easier fix for the "too much power" issue. Any tests using a indoor ball to see if the speeds come down?
We second this. OM Aero.
Love the show... love the content!
QUESTION: What do you feel the next big/meaningful advancement in pickleball paddles SHOULD be?
the X-factor may have skewed the results but then again, I am a Ruby fan so I was disappointed that it didn't make the top 8...and PS thanks for the gift for my question of the week a few weeks ago!!!
John and Eddie, great podcast. Love the data you have on the paddles and balls. As you guys are going through the play downs with the paddles, a thought came up thinking bout all the data you have. My question is, have you thought about measuring the spin on paddles against different balls. e.g. would you get spin on an indoor ball versus an outdoor ball. In tennis, playing on clay versus hard court, certain ball play better. We wanted the fast balls on the specific surface in tennis. I bring this up, being in Canada, we play a lot indoor over the winter. Having played with indoor and outdoor balls inside, I noice a difference and wondering if there is enough of a difference in power numbers with paddles and different ball types. I am guessing you use mainly outdoor balls. If there was, it might skew the balls I bring to the court!
I have mained a Ruby for about 2 months and loved it so much. I recently just got the Azul (117 SW) and for some reason it is so head heavy that it is unusable for me. Wonder if anyone else had this issue
Question: if you could make your own paddle, using any one particular piece of any paddle: core, shape, surface, color, handle etc. into any combination/amalgamation of your own choosing, to fit your style… what would your paddle look like?
There is no doubt that we need to cap the power on paddles, but I’m wondering what your thoughts are on Pickleballs? What are the current standard for balls and who is setting the standards? Should we have balls designed specifically for temperature ranges? Obviously hitting an Anna Bright 14 mm or a gearbox paddle on a cold day in Denver is going to play a lot faster than the same ball and paddles on a hot day in Florida.
Also, do you know of any technology coming out to make the ball quieter versus making the paddle quieter?
Question How is the new Pulsar? Love that paddle but had a lot of delam issues.
@johnkewpickleball, with the power going up and up, do you think strategy should shift to standing back and less kitchen rush? Seems they need to cap the power and allow more spin improvements.
Interesting that you were so surprised with the J2K. You must not have seen the other folks reviews on it. They’ve all completely loved it.
With exit velocity caps on paddles looming, the next ways to push limits would be spin. Besides the varying grit levels (such as the Joola Gen 3), what new spin innovations would you like to see come to the paddle industry? Proton comes to mind when I think about this.
Composite power would be a logical descriptive term for the overall amount of force returned to the Pickleball that is struck by the paddle at various velocities, this would include both the swing speed of the paddle and the approaching velocity of the ball combined. My question is has there been any comprehensive testing of the energy returned to the ball in the form of velocity and grafted out the results based on various initial ball speeds. I would be curious to see if this graft would be a linear form or some other type of slope and how one paddle would compare to another.
If the USAPA adopts a coefficient of restitution that is either capped at or below the most powerful and popiest paddles out currently, will paddle companies shift their primary focus to improving test weight / sweet spot, lowering the default swingweight & static weight, and maybe even pushing for the coefficient of friction and surface roughness limits to be increased, ultimately trying to get the most power allowed while increasing the control, spin, hand speed, and durability? This would probably mean companies like Joola and Gearbox would just tweak their current designs instead of innovating, which is arguably what companies like Engage and PaddleTek have done.
After watching reviews of the ONI, are foam injected cores here to stay or will they be a failed experiment with the gen 2's being preferred? Even Dale from Six Zero has said that PU foams are not structural foams, and they will expand over time with heat.
Liked. Question 1: Regarding Eyewear, can you do a Q&A topic on WHAT TYPE of lens material and frame material is good enough for eye protection and what kind of lens material may be insufficient or even dangerous when used as eyewear protection? I see many people wearing regular glasses including with high index lenses on the courts and assume that they are protected. So this question will include what type of lens material are commonly out there? For example, I know that polycarbonate and Trivex is strong enough to protect. But what about other lens material? And can some lense material be actually dangerous if they shatter - will the send shards into the eye?
What is an acceptable variance in grit within a paddle manufacture? Why is QC not improved throughout paddle cycles?
If you have tried hesacore grips, Do you think we will see companies building hesacore style grips into their handles out of the factory? Would be a decent differentiator in a sea of the same
With the paddles, the quiet technology will lead to slower reaction times since we will then rely on sight and not so much on sound. My question on the paddles is, "How do the Joola and Gearbox stack up to the Vice?" What is the difference since the Vice is not approved?
Question, is “foam” the official term for gen 3 paddle, seeing the joola and Vatic pro oni foam injection, which seems to be more of a gen 3 compared to gearbox pp?
Love the paddle comparisons. Would you guys come out with a company tier list?
Do you think there will eventually be a league/association that has a strict cap on power, but no restrictions on spin or finesse capabilities?
Question for next week:
Joola Gen 3s claim to increase spin via dwell time. Do you think this is specific to their propulsion core or will other Gen 3 foam core variants also have a similar effect? Looking at the Vatic Pro Oni paddle renders it makes me think that it would not have that trampoline/diving board effect… wondering what your thought are
On the pro circuit, with all of this power racquet technology coming out, do you guys think they are going to make changes to service rules to try to slow the game down or do you think they will put limits on legal racquet power? For instance I have heard that some are suggesting they move to a drop serve requirement.
This face-off is just the best! QUESTION- With a solid majority of pro pickleball players stating the new Gen3 Joola's and new GBX paddles etc.. are just over the enjoyable threshold of power for a strategic game, do you think we will see a shift of paddles moving back to GEN 2, or GEN 2.5? Or, will the game change more as other companies sell similar tech and things like eye protection will be required at tournaments? Will 3rd and 5th shots be more driven instead of dropped per average? THANKS AGAIN!
If you had to pick would you want the pro’s paddles to get faster or slower? Love the pod ❤
Having been using Ruby as your main paddle, do you have data on whether kevlar is more durable compared to raw carbon fiber? It would be great to see any comparison that you may have or see those kevlar tufts on your paddle? I main the Ruby as well. Thank you and keep up the great work!
People mention Kevlar face layers are softer/more flexible. The same is said by companies selling triaxial weave carbon fiber. How similar do these face material play and how does it compare to more standard carbon fiber weaves?
Hahaha I can’t believe Eddie actually wore a fedora! Hell yeah!
What’s the main difference with Ronbus RXL Pulsar and the previous Pulsar’s?
do you think wearing protection eye wear slow down reaction time? seems like eye wear and hotter paddles, there are more body bags
Thanks for the video! I also want to share my experience, I received my J2K pro last week, played two games over the weekend, it did not perform as well as J2K, maybe I will return it.
If the tennis world would have thought like you we would still be using wood racquets to play tennis matches. The game is going to evolve into a faster played game wheither you like it or not and down the road the dinking in the kitchen will be a thing of the past which means get on board or get left behind.
How important is the addition of Kevlar to paddles?
Is there any industry initiative to have key paddle specs stated on their packaging similar to the Uniform Tire Quality Grade (UTQG) in the automotive industry? For example: Static Weight, Swing Weight, Twist Weight, Grit Level, Grit Wear Resistance etc?
Question, if you had to use just 1 paddle solely based on looks/aesthetics… which one would it be?
On the topic of eyewear and the growing issue of paddles becoming more powerful, what do you want to see In the eyewear market as far as technology goes? Like crbn releasing their pickleball glasses do you see people trying their own version of eyewear maybe even with different color tints to give a better contrast when playing.
What are 1 or 2 paddles that you really wanted to like but had a glaring flaw that you couldn't get past?
How does the power / pop of the J2K compare to the Volair Mach 2 Forza 16mm (ranked 5 and 8, respectively in your rankings. Great podcast!
Hey friends. I haven't listened to this yet, but looking at the time stamps I don't see the Spartus Apollo Kevlar paddle. Maybe you don't have your hands on it like the rest of us?
Do you consider the shogun by bread and butter a gen 3 paddle? Is that blend the future of paddle technology?
John since you have more history with the Infinity Black Diamond could you please share your thoughts on adding 4 grams (possibly 5 grams) of tungsten at the 4- 5 & 8- 7 O'clock points? My thoughts are that it would add minimal addition to the swing rate while improving greatly the twist rate and stability to the paddle, creating a better well rounded all court paddle. Thank both of you for your in depth and clear reviews. Brad
Yes, tungsten tape at 4 and 8 o'clock really works wonders on the BD Infinity (as with all Infinities). Start with 2-3 grams and go up as needed
With all these new paddles coming out - almost all thermoformed. Is core crushing still something to worry about or have the manufacturers and paddle companies been able to limit that to a small percentage?
I've played with 3 kevlar paddles. The Ruby, Apes, and the Huarache X (for the last two weeks). The X for some reason feels considerably better in all aspects except for power against the Apes. Pretty much like you guys, I can have any paddle I want, I play about 12-15 hours a week at around a 4.0 level and I love the X carbon and the X Kevlar better. 😀
Did you find the hurache x Kevlar more control oriented than the x carbon?
“Scotty, I need more power” . :D
Hey John! I love your paddle reviews. What's your lead tape set-up for the AB Scorpeus?
Right now I have 3 grams (3 inches) each side at the 4 and 8-o'clock positions
Isn
isn't the Hurachi X Carbon fiber with fiberglass? Which one is Kevlar?
There’s a Kevlar version coming out Friday May 4 at 11 am
What are your top 5 paddles for a 3.5-4.0 pickleball player with no tennis or raquet sport background?
Have you ever measured the speed of the ball coming off a paddle and onto another paddle? How does the speed increase, since you can often use someone else's power against them?
It has become my view that paddle prefence is actually pretty personal. Unless the same ball is used everywhere (I don't see why there needs to be "indoor" and "outdoor" balls?) and ambient temperature is controlled, the pop/power/control values will be widely different. I have three paddles and I will swap between them depending on what is happening at the moment. Sometimes I love what I am getting from a paddle and sometimes hate it.
Agree almost entirely with Eddie on the Apes PLE S...I love the paddle and only wish the swing weight was lower. I can't fathom a "2" for control.
If you had a crystal ball, what might Gen4 paddle characteristics potentially incorporate?
Been looking forward to the kevlar paddle faceoff, I have the Honolulu J2K Pro and I love it!
Seeing the differences in your thoughts on Kevlar paddles has been interesting. I own both the Pickleball Apes PLE S, as well as the Hurache X Kevlar. I found it fascinating that you thought the PLE S has more pop. Completely different experience for me for sure. I actually feel the Huarache Kevlar is poppier. Both great paddles, just a different feel. My question is, how much do you think variances in manufacturing has a role in how paddles play differently from the same company? Second question is, with these new foam core paddles, do you think the USAPA needs to possibly change how they test, such as testing out of the box, then again after two weeks, one month, and two months play? Looks like deflection must be changing over time, thus paddles passing initially might not pass after some time when they are hotter. Thanks and keep up the great reviews and content.
Which paddle manufacturer will come out with another gen3 paddle ?
I fell for the marketing and love B&b - but does anyone know if titanium is actually a valid material for a paddle face ?
How will the game change after the introduction of more powerful paddles?
dear John, i have dyslexia and read your channel name as john knew every. single, time.
John Knew...I like that, too!
question for next week: do you think companies that are coming out with eva legal paddles like Ronbus (ripple) will change the game even further into a power orientated game? Or what is the next natural evolution as we went from gen 1 to thermoform, to kevlar hype trend, to propulsion core. What's next in your opinion?😊
Since new technology is able to produce increasing power like we see in the Gearbox and Joola Gen 3, and we know technology keeps advancing, do you think that professional pickleball will at some point have to put some sort of restriction or limit on the power that will be legal on tour?
Seems that off-axis hits with a wider paddle would suffer more twist. Seems errant twist is more a threat to a successful shot than errant deflection from a ball hit out at the tip of an elongated paddle. No?
I noticed that gen 3 paddles are going for mostly 16 mm with more pop while adding technology to give a softer touch so that you have more control.
How about 13 mm n less ? My understanding used to be less thicker for more power and more thinker for more control. But now with the added core technology, gen 3 16 mm have more power than gen 2 paddles 14mm n 16mm.
Is this because more pro players prefer using thicker paddles but want more power ?
So outta sync this week, maybe try couples counseling 😆. I agree, preferred paddle shape makes a big difference. I am moving from elongated to standard, and it’s been 3 weeks and I’m still getting used to it. I miss the extra reach, 1/2” is surprisingly noticeable, and i always think my sweet spot is higher which makes the paddle feel even shorter. I am much better at resetting though and notice the difference in twist weight, but mishits are the same since I keep expecting that little bit of reach. I have the Volair Mach 2 forza 14mm and Anna Bright Gen 3 Scorpeus in my backpack right now and I love them both, so do it Eddie! Testing the hurache-x too, everything I thought the Ruby would be, I like it and I’m excited to order the Kevlar version May 4th!
Awesome paddles choices! Great minds…. And yeah, maybe some counseling is in order! Or we just take our disagreements to the court! Lol😂
We know you like your melon hat but what’s inside your pickleball bag @johnkew? On regular days vs tournament days? What’s your choice of court shoes?
I’m excited for Ronbus new paddle I have the original r1.16
How should the pickleball industry handle an eventual rollout of exit velocity limits? If below some of the most recent offerings it would make those paddles illegal for tournament play. But a reasonable limit would likely be below what some of the newest or upcoming releases may deliver.
Question 2: With the faster paddles, why does it help weaker hitting pros more than harder hitting pros? What is the physics behind this?
If the newest Joola’s do end up being the limit for power in paddles, high level players will still find a way to improve their game. As the sport grows, more and more people are playing at younger ages. Inevitably, there will be more competition among the upper echelon of players. Do you have ideas on what their play styles and strategies (and maybe even physical attributes?) will look like in the future? How will they differ from the current top players’?
@johnkewpickleball I love Excel just as much as I love pickleball. I see that you are using Tables with your data. When I looked at your bracket results on your website, I tried, unsuccessfully, to sort the data... which didn't work because you took a picture of the table. Next time before you take your picture of the table go to the "Table Design" tab and remove the ✔from "Headers" . That will remove the filter boxes from the headers, thus preventing false click attempts like mine and cleaning up the look of the table even more.
I love the pod cast! I really wish the Spartus Apollo would have made the Kevlar comparison and I think the Proton Series One should get another look as well. So many paddles... so little time!
Potentially too John you could sell a copy of your excel s/s data that updates each time you add new paddles. That way we can open it in sheets/excel etc and filter what we want once purchased. You work hard, time to be rewarded! Zach the foot doctor gives us access for a year, check him out. Free is always good too 😂
Is there a good reason that even the high end companies like Joola are struggling with QC? The inconsistency of the grit on the production models of up to $300 paddles is kind of crazy.
Other QC issues (firsthand with the Joola Magnus) 1. Weight: My paddle came at 8.4 oz, above the range of 8.1 oz- 8.3 oz; 2. The grip size came at 4 1/2 in excess of the 4 1/4 as stated.
@@trumpisastump9382 m
Also, the new Maverix Havik-15 needs a review 👊
Is there a solve for the inconsistencies in ball manufacturing. The degradation and shape loss seems to be happening much faster now, with the increase in power from paddles.
In my experience, I have better spin with carbon fiber paddles on drives than on Kevlar paddles. Rolls, drops, and dinks however, I have more spin with Kevlar than carbon fiber. Everyone says I'm crazy or that it's just placebo. But also knowing that Eddie doesn't feel as much spin on the Ruby helps a bit.
Mine are very used, so that has some to do with it, but I have never felt like I got great spin on drives and serves compared to carbon fiber faces
🙌"FAIR TO MIDDLING" - @17:10 My wife swears I made this saying up
no love for the Maverix Havik-15mm Pro? Must be the weird hexagon shape not appealing lol. I think I only heard Brayden mentioned it amongst you, Chris & Will. Would love to have your thoughts on it if you haven't heard of Maverix since they've been around longer than the new companies you just mentioned
Might as well move to full EVA foam to level the playing field at this point. The VICE is proof that a single standardized EVA foam material can be used by all manufacturers, surface grit can be replaceable (like PIKL) and standardized by the PPA. Manufacturers can tweak shape, colors, weights much more easily and with less manual effort. Manufacturing would be much cheaper and paddles would be cheaper for the consumer.