Interesting video mate! - from my perspective of doing reviews I've been a lucky sod, there's not been much negative to report on with most stuff haha! It's nice having stuff sent to review, but there's certainly a way to be ethical about it - for me, I've never taken a dime from any manufacturer (though I've certainly paid out A LOT over the years to keep stuff lol!), and wont review a product unless I have full control and freedom. I've had a few bits of gear given well after the fact when it comes to time to return, but it's never been part of any agreement, it's just good advertising for the manufacturers I guess if they get to have you make continued content with their gear as it doesn't need handing back! Really on-board with the mono/OSC argument too, I'm the same mate - I appreciate mono and what it can do, but OSC is what I actually enjoy most. Clear skies!
Hey Luke- Ye there's definitely a better way to go about it for sure, some of the channels are definitely closer to advertising. Yep back to OSC for me too pal, just works better for me right now, especially with as many clouds as we get. Clear skies!
100% agree Ollie There are one or two that tend to promote the same company and their products consistently You can really tell when the same product comes up with 4-5 channels all at the same time.
Interesting video Ollie! I’m sure as you say, some may bend the truth a little, although, most of the channels I watch, I think are pretty genuine! But I do agree, the more time spent with the item, the better the review you should get! Funny enough, my next video is a telescope review 😀 I’ve had it for 8 weeks and got 4 images, would have been more, but you know, bloody weather!! However, I’ve done what I call a ‘real life’ review, where I’m using it for a good while and getting to know it!! Nice guitar work btw👍 Clear skies mate!
Good video, I am a very new Chanel, and I personally have had a few items for free to review, but most are items I have bought and paid for, but I like to think I am totally honest, but I agree with what you say, it seems some channels with many thousands of subs, seem to only do reviews and the items are alway perfect…🤔 Very interesting topic 👍🏻
Great video, Ollie! All your points are well made. I was watching a well known RUclipsr earlier this week and thinking, good though this is, it’s now just a product review channel. I also went down the route of sticking with OSC despite the received wisdom that Mono is better. I think that OSC is better for me. 👍
Interesting discussion Ollie. I'm becoming more wary of RUclips reviews (except for one someone did on the SW Skymax 127 mak...now that was useful 😊). If I'm interested in purchasing something I'll research it to death from numerous sources to get an overall impression of the item...haven't been burnt yet. On another point, your comment about simplifying your AP by going back to a OSC camera resonated with me. I love the challenge of mono but sometimes it gets a bit tedious, so I'm going to resurrect my ASI294MC and ASIAir (sorry NINA) and see if a simpler routine is just as satisfying.
@frankenstein77777 G'day Frank - Yep I'm finding my 533MC Pro really working for me at the moment. I must admit that 294 has always looked a great camera, especially with the two bin modes.
Yes! I've stopped watching most of the videos on my astrophotography subscriptions. They're all gear reviews. If I decide, at some point, that I need a particular piece of equipment, I'll search for relevant reviews and watch them. But for the most part, I have no interest in the fifteenth review of XYZ mount which I'm never going to buy. Your point about going back to OSC is right on point. (Even though I'm a mono guy.) The cliche first piece of telescope-buying advice is the "the best telescope is one that gets used." That's true for all types of gear. It it works for you, it's a good piece of gear.
@davewilton6021 Hey Dave - Totally agree with the best piece is the one that gets used and motivates you 👍. OSC just fits my lifestyle right now and I'm using it so makes sense.
I think the opposite can be the case though and sometimes Items can be talked down more than they need to be. As a Beginner I wanted a decent Newtonian and looking at the options most reviews were off putting with how much work / modification needed to be done to get them to "work". When in reality straight out of the box the OTA was exceptional, In my opinion.
From all the astro channels on RUclips, I like the ones who review telescopes and accessories the most. But it’s easy to see that most of those channels are not objective, they mostly talk about the positive aspect of the reviewed object and downplay the negative sides or ignore them altogether. Still there are some unbiased objective channels out there. Honest objective reviews can be usually found on astro forums and a lot less so on RUclips.
I think its simply impossible to be unbiased when you get the thing for free. You just got gift from someone youre going to biased toward the positive thats human nature, but even if youre trying to be thorough and find the weaknessses of it you still got it for free and we have to pay for it so they wont have the same perspective a consumer does when having to pick from many options with a limited budget. No one will every say "this isnt bad, but for that price you can get this which is better" otherwise theyd never get stuff again and thats another motivating factor i bet to keep any real opinions from slipping out. But somteimes they do slip out, or they give you some tells. Thats the sate of the youtube home shopping network in my opinion. And to be fair even those who spend their moeny can be biased toward it because they just spent money on it, and it cant be bad... in other words its a quantum paradox to define something as good or bad because its impossible to know for sure.
I for one know that some youtubers reviewing filters don't know much about spectroscopy, and... those reviewing solar scopes... same. Other than that... there are a few channels I watch.
Yes, your comment is correct, some influencers are mainly reviewing stuff after stuff, even several times a week. But as you said, the best is what works for you and keeps you happy. The industry tries to keep you expending money with new versions, extra gadgets and so on. In my opinion just watch and see if really you need some of this stuff to improve your skills, results and so on.
Have learned to sense a creator's motivation very quickly, and seeing repeated views for specific brands always is a strong signal. The guitar playing is an excellent analogy for this hobby. The gear does not equal views or success. They are very very passive tools, the user is the one that makes it all come together. I watched hours of videos before making an SCT purchase, felt I knew everything there was to know. Upon opening the box I was so unimpressed...I felt I had purchased a barbeque grill from China or something. The enjoyment will come, but the feel in the hand and attention to detail and materials were so....barbeque grill.
Ed Ting's channel also helped me alot with my choices. But YT now it's all about any products you can think of. It became like Chinese version of Tik-Tok. And sadly they took the Thumbs Down button away also.
Good discussion Ollie.. you are right.. this is a hobby.. use the gear and techniques that bring you joy. I do think for some, buying gear and cycling through it is part of the hobby too. Not for me though :) I do give the guys that do astro full time a pass on the gear reviews (demos really). They have to earn a living somehow. The consumer has some responsibility too IMHO. Gotta educate yourself before you pull that trigger. Part of that education is learning who knows what they're talking about (especially for those that frequent forums.. there's a sea of newbies out there.. giving advice to others.. well intention buy maybe not the best).
Good video Ollie and I liked the ending too. There is one famous RUclipsr who I feel is very dishonest about equipment reviews and I will not watch his channel. I'm sure there are others but he really gets my goose. He has a lot of subscribers so he is frequently sent free gear that he speaks glowingly about even though it is obvious it has nothing to do with the actual quality of the equipment. I think viewers just have to be aware and discriminatory and come to their own conclusions.
@tsulasbigadventures Hey Tsula - I think I know the channel basically looks like TV ads. Hopefully, most people are discerning enough to some research. The tune at the end is by Elizabeth Cotten called Freight Train, there's some great old videos of her singing it. 👍
Well, it's good for me as I primarily buy used and they keep the used marked stocked ;) But in all seriousness, I'm a big advocate of outgrowing your gear. Just because someone said that xy is better doesn't mean it performs better at your hands - as you pointed out. Also, if you outgrow your gear, you know why and regarding what aspects something needs to be better. Then you can look at different options and then these youtube channels could be a good starting point. But one needs to to a bit of research, look left and right as these could be, as you said, biased or maybe there are other factors like equipment lottery.
If you want to know, if the gear you want to buy is good (for you), you should test it yourself. Find someone that has one or go to the shop you can check it.
I review gear in written form (usually CN/Astrobin forum posts) both when I buy them, and when I've had gear sent to me, but I can 100% tell you that I put it in the original conversation with any supplier that is considering sending me equipment, that I will use the product in the manner that I would use any other piece of equipment, and I will discuss how it worked for me in my scenario - good or bad. On that topic of OSC/Mono - I've jumped between mono and OSC more times than I can think of since 2006 or 2007... The usual sucker is summer here in Brisbane, its cloudy and rainy and mono becomes really difficult to put together a great image, and then winter comes around and ALL I want is to shoot nebulae in narrowband, and I end up with a mono camera again. Its the annoying too and fro, in a sub-tropical climate. Just this year, I decided that having both is the correct answer, I shoot my colour camera for nearly every broadband image I shoot, only swapping to the mono camera when I want narrowband data, or if I'm going to beautiful dark skies and I want to get the absolute highest possible quality image (because it is noticable, the difference between mono and osc (even with the same sensor). Couldn't agree more - there are channels that are a series of infomercials, and they have their place I think, but the ultimate things are, firstly, as you said, someone who's reviewing something they've owned for a year and has a REAL WORLD opinion on, not a "I used the mount for 90 minutes and it seemed to work as expected", and secondly, don't trust one review. Jump around to many reviewers and try to get an overall picture of where everyones opinion fell for a particular product... I've been doing AP for so long that to be honest, RUclips reviewers to me are sort of a 'new thing' and I rarely put much stock in any of them, rather, reading specifications myself and learning what they things mean, and speaking to others personally regarding their experiences with similar gear... I myself have owned nearly 40 scopes ranging from 65mm quintuplet APO's to 14.5" RC's on massive robotic mounts, and I love to watch reviews and get excited about new gear as much as the next astrophotograper does (GASS: Gear Acquisition Syndrome Sufferer)... But I take everything with a grain of salt, and I know 100% that new gear, bigger/better gear will not make my images better. More integration time will.. learning new things will... honing my setup and troubleshooting skills will...
The reviews are getting a bit monotonous and worrying. It's not that they're saying that something is good when it's obviously garbage. It's more that obvious deficiencies are getting downplayed - like a quintuplet petzval telescope with chromatic aberration and some stars out of shape in the corners when the same manufacturer makes a quad petzval for half the price that doesn't suffer the same problems. I saw that particular review last night and it just bothered me because the guy is usually so precise in his critique.
It's a touchy subject, but I think that anyone who are never critical or negative about gear they are being sent, will not have a reputation as a trustworthy reviewer for long and will then over time lose their audience. Someone who always point out the good the bad and the ugly in a professional manner will probably not be sent the latest and the greatest all the time, but will instead have a stamp of approval that means something. I have a few examples of both, but I'm not gonna name and shame (or name and fame) either. If companies have confidence in their new equipment, they should send it to the brutally honest creator to point out the flaws as well as what is good. Long term, both the channel and the manufacturer will benefit.
If I'd purchased it I would have kept the video up, but I didn't and felt it comprised my review, hence I took it down. In other words watch someone who's purchased it.
Simple answer.. No. Just look how Askar or ZWO have figured out the importance of successful engagement with the better known influencers. Then there's the cherry picking of review samples, undeclared benefits etc.
well said Ollie. you hit the nail on the head!
Interesting video mate! - from my perspective of doing reviews I've been a lucky sod, there's not been much negative to report on with most stuff haha!
It's nice having stuff sent to review, but there's certainly a way to be ethical about it - for me, I've never taken a dime from any manufacturer (though I've certainly paid out A LOT over the years to keep stuff lol!), and wont review a product unless I have full control and freedom.
I've had a few bits of gear given well after the fact when it comes to time to return, but it's never been part of any agreement, it's just good advertising for the manufacturers I guess if they get to have you make continued content with their gear as it doesn't need handing back!
Really on-board with the mono/OSC argument too, I'm the same mate - I appreciate mono and what it can do, but OSC is what I actually enjoy most.
Clear skies!
Hey Luke- Ye there's definitely a better way to go about it for sure, some of the channels are definitely closer to advertising. Yep back to OSC for me too pal, just works better for me right now, especially with as many clouds as we get.
Clear skies!
Ollie, your Mono audition was one of the funniest astro videos out there. 😂
Thanks pal 😂 enjoyed that one
Couldn't agree more! Most of them I fast forward to aberration inspector part and that's it lol Damn I miss Alyn Wallace❤
Also an excellent point on OSC v MONO, I actually feel the same and did a video about my feeling with OSC being better for me !
100% agree Ollie There are one or two that tend to promote the same company and their products consistently You can really tell when the same product comes up with 4-5 channels all at the same time.
Interesting video Ollie! I’m sure as you say, some may bend the truth a little, although, most of the channels I watch, I think are pretty genuine! But I do agree, the more time spent with the item, the better the review you should get! Funny enough, my next video is a telescope review 😀 I’ve had it for 8 weeks and got 4 images, would have been more, but you know, bloody weather!! However, I’ve done what I call a ‘real life’ review, where I’m using it for a good while and getting to know it!!
Nice guitar work btw👍 Clear skies mate!
@SimonsAstro Hey Simon - Thanks for comments it's a difficult area for sure, I just can't do it personally. Hope that weather clears up for you.
Good video, I am a very new Chanel, and I personally have had a few items for free to review, but most are items I have bought and paid for, but I like to think I am totally honest, but I agree with what you say, it seems some channels with many thousands of subs, seem to only do reviews and the items are alway perfect…🤔
Very interesting topic 👍🏻
Great video, Ollie! All your points are well made. I was watching a well known RUclipsr earlier this week and thinking, good though this is, it’s now just a product review channel. I also went down the route of sticking with OSC despite the received wisdom that Mono is better. I think that OSC is better for me. 👍
Hey Mark yep OSC is suiting me better right now for sure !
Hi there Ollie, I'm glad you brought it up, completely agree. Love the guitar comparison. Clear Skies!
Cheers Luke 👍
Interesting discussion Ollie. I'm becoming more wary of RUclips reviews (except for one someone did on the SW Skymax 127 mak...now that was useful 😊). If I'm interested in purchasing something I'll research it to death from numerous sources to get an overall impression of the item...haven't been burnt yet.
On another point, your comment about simplifying your AP by going back to a OSC camera resonated with me. I love the challenge of mono but sometimes it gets a bit tedious, so I'm going to resurrect my ASI294MC and ASIAir (sorry NINA) and see if a simpler routine is just as satisfying.
@frankenstein77777 G'day Frank - Yep I'm finding my 533MC Pro really working for me at the moment. I must admit that 294 has always looked a great camera, especially with the two bin modes.
Nicely expressed and I couldn't agree more . . . thank you ! you have a new subscriber
@f64photo Thanks pal 👍
Yes! I've stopped watching most of the videos on my astrophotography subscriptions. They're all gear reviews. If I decide, at some point, that I need a particular piece of equipment, I'll search for relevant reviews and watch them. But for the most part, I have no interest in the fifteenth review of XYZ mount which I'm never going to buy. Your point about going back to OSC is right on point. (Even though I'm a mono guy.) The cliche first piece of telescope-buying advice is the "the best telescope is one that gets used." That's true for all types of gear. It it works for you, it's a good piece of gear.
@davewilton6021 Hey Dave - Totally agree with the best piece is the one that gets used and motivates you 👍. OSC just fits my lifestyle right now and I'm using it so makes sense.
I think the opposite can be the case though and sometimes Items can be talked down more than they need to be. As a Beginner I wanted a decent Newtonian and looking at the options most reviews were off putting with how much work / modification needed to be done to get them to "work". When in reality straight out of the box the OTA was exceptional, In my opinion.
Yep that can be true, I think, especially when people with little experience do reviews or they don't account for differences in design vs cost.
@@OlliesSpace I actually mean some of the more "Established" Channels.
From all the astro channels on RUclips, I like the ones who review telescopes and accessories the most. But it’s easy to see that most of those channels are not objective, they mostly talk about the positive aspect of the reviewed object and downplay the negative sides or ignore them altogether. Still there are some unbiased objective channels out there. Honest objective reviews can be usually found on astro forums and a lot less so on RUclips.
For sure, it's very true with regards the Forums being a great place for good information.
I think its simply impossible to be unbiased when you get the thing for free. You just got gift from someone youre going to biased toward the positive thats human nature, but even if youre trying to be thorough and find the weaknessses of it you still got it for free and we have to pay for it so they wont have the same perspective a consumer does when having to pick from many options with a limited budget. No one will every say "this isnt bad, but for that price you can get this which is better" otherwise theyd never get stuff again and thats another motivating factor i bet to keep any real opinions from slipping out. But somteimes they do slip out, or they give you some tells. Thats the sate of the youtube home shopping network in my opinion. And to be fair even those who spend their moeny can be biased toward it because they just spent money on it, and it cant be bad... in other words its a quantum paradox to define something as good or bad because its impossible to know for sure.
I for one know that some youtubers reviewing filters don't know much about spectroscopy, and... those reviewing solar scopes... same. Other than that... there are a few channels I watch.
ps: I enjoy the experience of observing the Sun. Many if not most of my pictures aren't even published.
Yes, your comment is correct, some influencers are mainly reviewing stuff after stuff, even several times a week. But as you said, the best is what works for you and keeps you happy. The industry tries to keep you expending money with new versions, extra gadgets and so on. In my opinion just watch and see if really you need some of this stuff to improve your skills, results and so on.
Good point Claudio thanks for input
Have learned to sense a creator's motivation very quickly, and seeing repeated views for specific brands always is a strong signal. The guitar playing is an excellent analogy for this hobby. The gear does not equal views or success. They are very very passive tools, the user is the one that makes it all come together. I watched hours of videos before making an SCT purchase, felt I knew everything there was to know. Upon opening the box I was so unimpressed...I felt I had purchased a barbeque grill from China or something. The enjoyment will come, but the feel in the hand and attention to detail and materials were so....barbeque grill.
Thanks for this. You make lots of great points here. I wish a new guitar would help me play better though !!! 😂
One thing: Do I see a face like Al Bundy is selling shoes? Then my trust is completely gone but I might still watch the video.
Yeah I agree. I tend to unsubscribe once a channel heads down that path.
Me too
Ed Ting's channel also helped me alot with my choices. But YT now it's all about any products you can think of. It became like Chinese version of Tik-Tok. And sadly they took the Thumbs Down button away also.
Ye I think Ed does a good job and spends a lot of time with the gear.
Good discussion Ollie.. you are right.. this is a hobby.. use the gear and techniques that bring you joy. I do think for some, buying gear and cycling through it is part of the hobby too. Not for me though :)
I do give the guys that do astro full time a pass on the gear reviews (demos really). They have to earn a living somehow.
The consumer has some responsibility too IMHO. Gotta educate yourself before you pull that trigger. Part of that education is learning who knows what they're talking about (especially for those that frequent forums.. there's a sea of newbies out there.. giving advice to others.. well intention buy maybe not the best).
@DSOImager Thanks, James. lots of good points in here, especially around educating yourself first 👍 Hope you're getting some clear skies.
Good video Ollie and I liked the ending too. There is one famous RUclipsr who I feel is very dishonest about equipment reviews and I will not watch his channel. I'm sure there are others but he really gets my goose. He has a lot of subscribers so he is frequently sent free gear that he speaks glowingly about even though it is obvious it has nothing to do with the actual quality of the equipment. I think viewers just have to be aware and discriminatory and come to their own conclusions.
@tsulasbigadventures Hey Tsula - I think I know the channel basically looks like TV ads. Hopefully, most people are discerning enough to some research. The tune at the end is by Elizabeth Cotten called Freight Train, there's some great old videos of her singing it. 👍
@@OlliesSpace I'll have to look for that.
@@OlliesSpace PS: Oh she is left handed!
Yes and yet played a guitar string for a right handed player! She had a pretty unique style.
@@OlliesSpace Yes, thanks for telling me about her. That was pretty neat.
Mono is better and I regret nothing. :)
😂
Well, it's good for me as I primarily buy used and they keep the used marked stocked ;)
But in all seriousness, I'm a big advocate of outgrowing your gear. Just because someone said that xy is better doesn't mean it performs better at your hands - as you pointed out. Also, if you outgrow your gear, you know why and regarding what aspects something needs to be better. Then you can look at different options and then these youtube channels could be a good starting point. But one needs to to a bit of research, look left and right as these could be, as you said, biased or maybe there are other factors like equipment lottery.
Very good point there about naturally outgrowing your gear, definitely agree.
If you want to know, if the gear you want to buy is good (for you), you should test it yourself. Find someone that has one or go to the shop you can check it.
Yep fair call
I review gear in written form (usually CN/Astrobin forum posts) both when I buy them, and when I've had gear sent to me, but I can 100% tell you that I put it in the original conversation with any supplier that is considering sending me equipment, that I will use the product in the manner that I would use any other piece of equipment, and I will discuss how it worked for me in my scenario - good or bad.
On that topic of OSC/Mono - I've jumped between mono and OSC more times than I can think of since 2006 or 2007... The usual sucker is summer here in Brisbane, its cloudy and rainy and mono becomes really difficult to put together a great image, and then winter comes around and ALL I want is to shoot nebulae in narrowband, and I end up with a mono camera again. Its the annoying too and fro, in a sub-tropical climate.
Just this year, I decided that having both is the correct answer, I shoot my colour camera for nearly every broadband image I shoot, only swapping to the mono camera when I want narrowband data, or if I'm going to beautiful dark skies and I want to get the absolute highest possible quality image (because it is noticable, the difference between mono and osc (even with the same sensor).
Couldn't agree more - there are channels that are a series of infomercials, and they have their place I think, but the ultimate things are, firstly, as you said, someone who's reviewing something they've owned for a year and has a REAL WORLD opinion on, not a "I used the mount for 90 minutes and it seemed to work as expected", and secondly, don't trust one review. Jump around to many reviewers and try to get an overall picture of where everyones opinion fell for a particular product...
I've been doing AP for so long that to be honest, RUclips reviewers to me are sort of a 'new thing' and I rarely put much stock in any of them, rather, reading specifications myself and learning what they things mean, and speaking to others personally regarding their experiences with similar gear... I myself have owned nearly 40 scopes ranging from 65mm quintuplet APO's to 14.5" RC's on massive robotic mounts, and I love to watch reviews and get excited about new gear as much as the next astrophotograper does (GASS: Gear Acquisition Syndrome Sufferer)... But I take everything with a grain of salt, and I know 100% that new gear, bigger/better gear will not make my images better. More integration time will.. learning new things will... honing my setup and troubleshooting skills will...
Thanks for such a reply lots of good point well made here. Amen to the more integration time, no amount of wishing helps !
The reviews are getting a bit monotonous and worrying. It's not that they're saying that something is good when it's obviously garbage. It's more that obvious deficiencies are getting downplayed - like a quintuplet petzval telescope with chromatic aberration and some stars out of shape in the corners when the same manufacturer makes a quad petzval for half the price that doesn't suffer the same problems.
I saw that particular review last night and it just bothered me because the guy is usually so precise in his critique.
Hi There - yes indeed I've seen the same thing very worrying.
Yes of course mono is better but if you live somewhere like I do where you only get maybe 30 good imaging nights in a year its OSC everytime
Yep makes a lot of sense, being near the coast we don't get that many clear nights either.
It's a touchy subject, but I think that anyone who are never critical or negative about gear they are being sent, will not have a reputation as a trustworthy reviewer for long and will then over time lose their audience. Someone who always point out the good the bad and the ugly in a professional manner will probably not be sent the latest and the greatest all the time, but will instead have a stamp of approval that means something. I have a few examples of both, but I'm not gonna name and shame (or name and fame) either.
If companies have confidence in their new equipment, they should send it to the brutally honest creator to point out the flaws as well as what is good. Long term, both the channel and the manufacturer will benefit.
There are lots of good points in here, thanks.
Hi Ollie, I'm really not bothered about review videos I tend to just skip most of them,
Fair enough Tony
If it's not broke why fix it.your ed80 for example.ive got little brother ed72.enjoy and clear skies
@@Vic-pz5oh Super little scopes 👍
Too bad you deleted the video you made with the SV550 122 mm triplet. By that logic there wouldn’t be a single review video on RUclips.
If I'd purchased it I would have kept the video up, but I didn't and felt it comprised my review, hence I took it down. In other words watch someone who's purchased it.
Simple answer.. No. Just look how Askar or ZWO have figured out the importance of successful engagement with the better known influencers. Then there's the cherry picking of review samples, undeclared benefits etc.